S03.E08: My Name Is Datak Tarr and I Have Come to Kill You

[formerlyfreedom]

Defiance is under siege. As Nolan, Amanda, Irisa and the militia defend the town against the Votanis Collective, Datak recalls his father's chilling lessons and makes a pivotal decision, while Stahma takes an unexpected trip.

[johntfs]

Yesss.  Datak Motherfuckin' Tarr.  That is all.

[mustbekarma]

Run, Datak, run! OK. I'm satisfied that Datak lives after pulling off that BAMF move. He cut off his own arm! Why go on a suicide mission if you don't have to? This is one of my top 10 moments of Defiance. That redemption was totally earned.

 

Can the show please wake up at least one cool, badass female Purple People Eater and kill that petulant child? Her main character trait is annoying. I mean, I get why she let Stahma see the Hive ship with the hundreds of thousands of sleeping Omec. Now Papa Purple People Eater will have to kill Stahma to keep their secret. At least that's what Petulant Purple People Eater wants. I wanted to use a different word than petulant for that annoying brat, but I decided I would keep it clean for once.

 

 

I knew it. I knew it. I knew the Petulant One exposed the master plan to Stahma so Papa would have to kill her. I'm so happy that little brat overplayed her hand. The only thing that would have made me cheer if is Papa had slapped her around a little more. It's too much to expect that he'd kill his own daughter. Maybe he could throw her in a stasis pod.

 

It was so cold to kill all those poor people, especially the awesome Irathient kid. Oh well, at least the General died, and died realizing he'd been played by Datak.

[raven]

o LOL ok I was smiling along with Datak.  Yay Datak lives!  He cut off his own arm!  Run you mad bastard!

 

There was a lot of stupid in this episode - Nolan latching onto some unknown guy because he did well in a fight??  When he knows Defiance has been infiltrated??

Then not going along with Amanda's smarter plan, resulting in all the inexperienced kids getting killed.  I like Nolan but come on now.  I thought Alak might be the key with his almost recognizing the guy, but nope.  The Butcher of Yosemite is getting soft, couldn't even kill the guy.  Thankfully Irisa could.

 

Then Rahm letting Datak into camp.  I don't mind that one so much because it meant Datak lived, but still, pretty dumb of him (Rahm), considering. 

 

I am liking the Stahma/Omec dynamic, though I'm disappointed Kindzi's behavior seems to be due to jealousy.  Ugh.  I wish there was another dynamic in play, since Papa Omec was originally all about taking over the Earth.  Now second thoughts?  I do like him calling Stahma out on her fake submissiveness and she giving it back to him.

 

Loved the flashbacks to little Datak; well done Tony Curran.  Ooh and Irisa and Alak at the end nice.

Edited July 25, 2015 by raven

[mjc570]

Wow, great episode.  Datak was AMAZING, and I really liked the flashbacks - especially young Datak.  There were a few things that were almost either stupid or out-of character enough to take me out the episode - Nolan just accepting that guy, Omec dad letting his daughter literally spit in his face - but I still thought it was good.

[mustbekarma]

Wow, great episode.  Datak was AMAZING, and I really liked the flashbacks - especially young Datak.  There were a few things that were almost either stupid or out-of character enough to take me out the episode - Nolan just accepting that guy, Omec dad letting his daughter literally spit in his face - but I still thought it was good.

Well, Nolan thought the guy was human. The Votanis Collective didn't have any humans working with them. The spy saved Nolan's life. From Nolan's perspective, the guy was legit.

[nilyank]

 

Well, Nolan thought the guy was human. The Votanis Collective didn't have any humans working with them. The spy saved Nolan's life. From Nolan's perspective, the guy was legit.

 

He saved Nolan's life and killed one of the Voltan to throw off suspicions him.

 

Datak was awesome. At first, I thought they planted the bomb in his hand where his father cut him and he was going to push out the bomb with his knife. Nope. Cut off his damn arm.

 

Alak and Irisa's chemistry continues to shine. And I think Nolan will totally approve of it.

[Chaos Theory]

Well Damn. I knew Datak was bad. I knew Datak was an ass. But I didn't know DatK was a badass.

With the shaming rack, the suicide mission. And the back story I was pretty sure the show really was going to kill off Datak.

The Stahma/Omec stuff is fascinating. Stahma always did top from the bottom extremely well but even she might have ugh bitten off more then she can chew in this particular family dynamic.

Hey Irisa welcome back to murderville. We missed you.

Amanda. Nolan. Now that the war with the Voltan Collective is over we have got to have a serious talk about both your habits of wanting to go on suicide missions.

[Human]

I can't believe how much the show has made me love Datak.  He cut off his own arm!!!!!!  Which was awesome, in a totally gross and awesome way.  I stood up and was laughing along with him.  I hope the town worships him when he returns.  This has really become the Datak Stahma show.  Love them.

 

Hope Alak and Irisa just do it already.  I don't want to see this budding relationship turn to drama.  

[thuganomics85]

Knew last week wasn't end of the line for Datak.  But I certainly didn't predict that his survival would involve cutting off his own arm. That's one way to do it.  But hey ,when your other choices are death by shaming rack or being in the middle of a big-ass explosion, losing arm is the best out of those options.  Curious to see what will happen now: assuming he goes back to Defiance, will Amanda still pardon him (and Stahma), like she promised, even though he isn't actually dead?

 

I actually had no problems buying Rahm falling for the trick, especially since it was Datak.  Had it been Nolan or Amanda like they wanted, I would have called bullshit, but I think Rahm thought so little of Datak, that he never would have thought him capable of anything close to this.  He probably thought Datak is too cowardly or too selfish, to put himself in danger like he did.  So, I was fine with that, and I thought it was a fitting end for him and the VC.

 

I did have a slightly more problem with Nolan falling for the mole as much as he did, but I guess I can buy that the guy just did a good job, and the execution of all the bar people, was enough to make him just want to take the fight to them.  Good thing Irisa finally got over her no killing phase, or he'd be dead too.  But I do wonder if there will be any repercussions for the loss of the militia: especially that one kid with the protective dad.  Wouldn't be surprised if he shows back up.

 

So, Kindzi really was showing Stahma to ship, in order to force T'evgin to kill her.  Instead though, T'evrgin is now thinking about actually co-existing with everyone else, instead of killing them all.  Aww, what a nice Omec!  Too bad that I totally think this story is going to end with Kindzi killing him.  I guessing that now that the VC is gone, the Omecs will be the next problem.

 

Yeah, it seems more and more obvious that the show is heading in an Alak/Irisa direction. 

 

Loved that the bomb idea came from Yewll.  She would be the one person who'd figure out how to make a stasis field into a bomb!

Edited July 25, 2015 by thuganomics85

[wanderingstar]

Thank God, Rahm Takk is dead. I hated him so fucking much.

 

I'll probably regret this, but I'm also glad Datak lived. 

 

Aww, was a nice Omec!  Too bad that I totally think this story is going to end with Kindzi killing him.

 

Same here. I think T'evgin is not long for Defiance.

[GaT]

I knew they wouldn't kill off Datak, & now Amanda has to pardon both Datak & Stahma, so that's how they're going to get around the whole traitor thing. I'm glad Rahm is dead because he was really boring me. I guess the rest of the season is going to be spent on the Omec.

[zxy556575]

There was a lot of stupid in this episode - Nolan latching onto some unknown guy because he did well in a fight??  When he knows Defiance has been infiltrated??

 

I thought the infiltrate/Indogene guy was stupid for showing his hand so early when he could likely have done a lot more damage by biding his time instead of taking out ten people or so. Maybe he thought it was worth it for the chance to kill three of the leaders.

 

Datak, you crafty, unkillable son of a bitch. Are we supposed to assume he was left alive on the shaming rack because the rock-pilers obeyed Amanda's instructions and all went home? He must have been there at least 2-3 hours.

 

I love this damned show. Nice touch having the episode title come from little Datak.

Edited July 25, 2015 by lordonia

[laagamer]

1) Seeing a Votan home world was fucking amazing. I loved every bit of those scenes.

 

2) I'm a little disappointed how poorly Nolan fought back against the spy during the skirmish outside the tunnel. I can understand his trusting of an Indogene in disguise, but the main character (AKA: Head Badass) should be able to take some minor scrub in hand to hand combat. That was pretty disappointing.

 

3) My favorite character lives! And in such epic fashion! The Doors was a nice comical touch as he was sprinting to safety. That was absolutely fantastic and has completely redeemed a season in desperate need of awesome moments after the bunker/ bomb/ rape fiasco-waste of an episode. I sincerely hope that Datak and Stahma be allowed to return to Defiance. The show would never be the same without the two of them living in the center of the action. That being said, I don't see how they'd ever be accepted back even with a pardon. I'm just happy my favorite character lives on! 

 

4) The Omecs. I don't know if I fully trust that Daddy Omec wants to change for the better. And even if he does, I highly doubt that his entire race (once woken up) would just go along with his new found views. Either he's going to go, or the daughter is. And speaking as a peaceful Omec wouldn't make for a very good plot, I think Daddy is going to die. Honestly, I'm growing tired of the Omec situation, so either make something happen or ditch it entirely. I'd love to see the "beasts" awaken, but I'm unsure it will ever happen. I did love seeing the Omec "savage" form though. The teeth looked fantastic.

 

All in all, great episode! I can't wait for more and DATAK! 

[Christina]

Fun Fact: The actor who plays Dr. Yewll also played the mother with the two kids in the scene where daddy Omec ripped the throat out of the VC man. I can't find the tweet now to post it here.

[zxy556575]

Fun Fact: The actor who plays Dr. Yewll also played the mother with the two kids in the scene where daddy Omec ripped the throat out of the VC man. I can't find the tweet now to post it here.

 

Nice! I didn't recognize her voice at all, and I love Yewll's tone.

[wayne67]

Datak for the win.

 

I do wonder how Papa Omec will convince the rest of his race to get along when he can't even get his daughter/girlfriend to behave for an hour without endangering their agenda.

 

I think they are killing off too many characters and it's getting kind of hard to care about anyone any more.

[Vandy10]

I'm so glad Rahm's done, and in spectacular Datak fashion to boot! I don't know if it was the actor or the writing or the directing, or what really, but I just never bought Rahm's character. For one, he never felt alien to me, and certainly not Casthi. I also didn't buy him as a well-respected general. He just came across as a frat boy. Okay, a sadistic and violent frat boy, but a frat douche nonetheless. But the character of Rahm has given me new appreciation for the way that the other actors who play our main aliens (Irisa, Datak, Alak, and especially Stahma) get the feel of being alien right. There's an art form to playing an alien and acting through the makeup/prosthetics.

 

I'm liking the Omec/Stahma stuff, so I'm interested to see where the rest of the season goes with Daddy and Daughter Vampires. And Yewell...always love Yewell scenes! And now I feel the need to go back and rewatch because I had no clue that the mother was played by Yewell's actress.

[johntfs]

Rahm Tak seems like the embodiment of "a thin line between love and hate."  I'll bet that when he got off the Votan ships he fell completely in love with human culture.  Movies, music, TV, everything.  Then the Pale Wars happened and the Arks were destroyed.  Humanity had betrayed him and tried to kill him, so he'd kill all of them and take their culture for himself.

[Clanstarling]

I laughed at the end - Datak figured out a way to be a hero, redeem his Casti honor for his father, redeem himself and his wife in Defiance, and live to sleaze another day. The song was perfect. I did briefly think that he'd either cut out the targeting mechanism, or that the mechanism required a living being to power it. I'm glad I was wrong.

 

I thought Alak would recognized the Indogene's voice if and when he said something he'd said back at camp - but then again, IIRC, he wasn't the most talkative guy at Rahm's camp - even if he could get a word in edgewise through Rahm's bloviating.

 

I liked the Omec calling out Stahma on her false modesty - and her reply as well. I'm not sure if the other Omecs would be as against his plan as Kinzi - they constantly refer to Kinzi as being very young and hot headed (the parallel to Datak's boyhood story was noticeable to me). But I'm not sure we'll even get that far. The ship and its sleepers are still vulnerable. I don't think Papa Omec is going to die, but I won't be shocked if they go that way.

 

So...did using the Stasis Net as a bomb destroy the net?

 

I don't generally notice seasonal themes - but the parent/child themes are particularly apparent this season, and especially in this episode.

Edited July 25, 2015 by clanstarling

[MrWhyt]

that was some gangster ass shit. I Laughed heartily at Rahm Tak high fiveing the other VC with Datak's severed arm.

 

Pretty inventive way to get Stahma and Datak out of the charge of being traitors.

[GaT]

Fun Fact: The actor who plays Dr. Yewll also played the mother with the two kids in the scene where daddy Omec ripped the throat out of the VC man. I can't find the tweet now to post it here.

I had no idea! I'm going to check it out on OnDemand & rewatch that scene.

[nitrofishblue]

Was it just me but it appeared that Datak's arm was not real. It looked to be a mechanical thing with wires and stuff. So he actually did not cut off his real arm or was it that extra glass of wine I drank confused me?

[zxy556575]

Was it just me but it appeared that Datak's arm was not real. It looked to be a mechanical thing with wires and stuff. So he actually did not cut off his real arm or was it that extra glass of wine I drank confused me?

 

I thought the same thing but just assumed the CGI was subpar. What was supposed to be the arm bone looked more like a cable. I guess the knife cauterizes as well, because the stump was barely bleeding.

 

Wonder if Yewll will be able to graft something back or if the actor will have to cope with arm-hiding tricks for the rest of the series.

Edited July 25, 2015 by lordonia

[GaT]

Was it just me but it appeared that Datak's arm was not real. It looked to be a mechanical thing with wires and stuff. So he actually did not cut off his real arm or was it that extra glass of wine I drank confused me?

I had forgotten about that, but yes, I thought it was a mechanical arm too. I wondered if maybe he had his real arm strapped to his body & the mechanical one was there to fool Rahm.

 

I went back & watched the scene with Omec in the diner, & now that I know who played the woman, I can absolutely see Doc Yewll in her face, she has a distinctive nose. I guess it must have made a nice change for her makeup wise, & it's interesting to hear the difference in the voices she uses.

[Human]

I thought it was to show that Castithan bodies are slightly different and the CGI department did a poor job with it.  

[zxy556575]

What else we learned: Daddy Omec likes pancakes with fruit. Even if the diner is closed.

[ottoDbusdriver]

What else we learned: Daddy Omec likes pancakes with fruit. Even if the diner is closed.

 

We also learned that the Omec really do go overboard when it comes to decorating the interior of their spaceships.

 

And we learned that the home world of the Castithans, Daribo, looked amazing -- and had at least two moons, and orbited a binary star.

 

The city where Datak's family lived had red vegetation, flying machines, very cool architecture with lots of curves and spires, and tons of wildlife that looked like dragonbirds.  Anyone else catch that the columns in the foreground of that opening shot looked like the two remaining pieces of the St. Louis Arch ?

Edited July 25, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I laughed at the end - Datak figured out a way to be a hero, redeem his Casti honor for his father, redeem himself and his wife in Defiance, and live to sleaze another day. The song was perfect. I did briefly think that he'd either cut out the targeting mechanism, or that the mechanism required a living being to power it. I'm glad I was wrong.

 

The ending was super awesome. Datak badassing his way out of certain death, plus still taking out the bad guys and restoring his honor in the process-that was worth the price of admission. Hell, taking out Rahm Tak would've been enough for me, I'm glad that arrogant psycho is no more. And using an actual Doors song was an excellent choice.

 

I'm wondering know if this is setting up Datak for a bigger redemption story arch. I could see him transitioning from one of the series "bad guy" to more of an anti-hero. Compared to Stahma, who I think does things to do them, I've always believed Datak when he said he does the bad things he does for the sake of his family and standing in the new world.

 

I'm starting to sort of like Papa Omec but his daughter is a crazy drag. I could deal with him sticking around but she has got to go, unless they give her a little more character development then angry and childish.  I'm loving that Papa Omec and Stahma have got each other's numbers.

 

Old man Nolan is off his game a bit, trusting strangers and getting his ass pushed around. I'm continuing to like the tentative friendship Irisa and Alak are forming, and how it really isn't romantic/sexual at this point. It is sweet to watch them bonding over the baby and Datak's suicide mission.

[zxy556575]

Old man Nolan is off his game a bit, trusting strangers and getting his ass pushed around.

 

Right? Nolan has either devolved this season to pretty much a bit player or else I just don't care to pay much attention to his scenes any more. He isn't bringing anything new or interesting to the story.

[Clanstarling]

I loved the flashbacks into Datak's life, and given the work they put into the design, I'm hoping to see more of Daribo in the future. I found it interesting that all this time, knowing that Stahma's family had the higher status, I assumed Datak came from a family of low level criminals, and was lifted to his "success" by Stahma's sly direction.

 

Yet, his father was some kind of priest. Given that their religion seems very important to the Casti, you would think Datak's family had a pretty decent status of its own. Sure, Datak was somewhat of a bad seed - but they refer to the family, rather than the individual, when it comes to status (IIRC).

 

I would like to see more flashbacks for the Votans in general. Not at a Lost level, where every show was wrapped around one (which I liked well enough for Lost, but not for this show).

Edited July 25, 2015 by clanstarling

[ottoDbusdriver]

Old man Nolan is off his game a bit, trusting strangers and getting his ass pushed around. I'm continuing to like the tentative friendship Irisa and Alak are forming, and how it really isn't romantic/sexual at this point. It is sweet to watch them bonding over the baby and Datak's suicide mission.

 

Yeah, Nolan should have done his due diligence on Beckham -- and asked anyone else like Amanda or Doc Yewll if they knew who this Beckham guy was and how long he had been in town.  I thought for sure when Nolan and Beckham caught up with Pappa Omec in that house that Pappa Omec was going to out Beckham as an Indogene -- because he gave him a long looking at.

[GaT]

Right? Nolan has either devolved this season to pretty much a bit player or else I just don't care to pay much attention to his scenes any more. He isn't bringing anything new or interesting to the story.

That's because he's human, & they've changed the focus to all the aliens. Besides Nolan & Amanda, there are no more humans as major characters, & the 2 they have left, don't really contribute much. I wouldn't be surprised to see both characters either leaving Defiance or getting killed off leaving us with nothing but aliens. It's a change I don't like at all.

[kieyra]

Okay, Defiance, well played. Nice misdirection with the flashbacks and honor and whatnot--you made me believe he really was going to die. And then a very legit twist. You earned that one.

I'm also buying Irisa and Alak. Whoever decided to take a very, very light touch there deserves a hell of a lot of credit.

I enjoyed S2 and have very much enjoyed S3. I don't dabble in the dark woods of SyFy often; isn't this usually around the point where they yank out the rug and cancel the show?

Edited July 26, 2015 by kieyra

[Chaos Theory]

I enjoyed S2 and have very much enjoyed S3. I don't dabble in the dark woods of SyFy often; isn't this usually around the point where they yank out the rug and cancel the show?

Defiance has always been a bit of a bubble show. On the plus side with SYFY Friday being a thing again Defiance has a better then average chance of being renewed if either Killjoys or Dark Matter are.

[johntfs]

Yeah, Nolan should have done his due diligence on Beckham -- and asked anyone else like Amanda or Doc Yewll if they knew who this Beckham guy was and how long he had been in town.  I thought for sure when Nolan and Beckham caught up with Pappa Omec in that house that Pappa Omec was going to out Beckham as an Indogene -- because he gave him a long looking at.

 

Backham has just saved Nolan and Amanda by killing one of the VC infiltrators.  He gave them a story that was highly plausible and impossible to easily check.  PLus, vile as he was, "Beckham" was good at his task.  I'll be honest here.  If I hadn't know who and what Beckham was, my first thought about him showing up would have been, "Oh, look, they're auditioning a new Tommy and/or Berlin."

[Chaos Theory]

Yeah, Nolan should have done his due diligence on Beckham -- and asked anyone else like Amanda or Doc Yewll if they knew who this Beckham guy was and how long he had been in town.

 

 

Well maybe I'd agree if they weren't in the middle of a war.   For all he knew the rest of the invading force was burning down houses and killing townsfolk (which they kinda were)  Was Nolan supposed to go asking around town to see if anyone heard of Beckham when there was active shooting in town?   Nolan was in no position to refuse help from anyone and the guy helping appeared to be human.  Nolan made a command decision and it was apparently the wrong decision but it was an understandable one.   

Edited July 26, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[laagamer]

 I wouldn't be surprised to see both characters either leaving Defiance or getting killed off leaving us with nothing but aliens. 

 

Seriously? Nolan and Irisa are main characters. 

 

The day the kill off Nolan is the day the show ends. 

[GaT]

Seriously? Nolan and Irisa are main characters. 

 

 

So were the McCawleys, so was Tommy, so was Berlin, so was Kenya, so was Pottinger. They've been systematically getting rid of the main character humans for a while.

[Human]

I'm rather glad they are getting rid of the human characters.  There has never been a single human character that I've really cared for.  Maybe Pa McCawley or Kenya, but that's stretching it.  On the other hand, so many of the voltans are my faves.  I'd be happy for this to be an 'aliens completely take over earth' sort of show.  

[Makenna]

So were the McCawleys, so was Tommy, so was Berlin, so was Kenya, so was Pottinger. They've been systematically getting rid of the main character humans for a while.

They were main characters yes but Amanda, Nolan, and Irisa are "THE" main characters. Grant, Steph, Julie, and then also to a lesser extant Tony and Jaime were the only characters SyFy did any kind of promo for (ads and commercials) leading up to this season. The five above are the only ones interviewed for Defiance's weekly BTS features, etc. 

 

I agree with @laagamer. The only way Nolan is getting killed off is if the show is in the last couple of episodes of its final season and TPTB know it's their FINAL season. 

[MrWhyt]

So were the McCawleys, so was Tommy, so was Berlin, so was Kenya, so was Pottinger. They've been systematically getting rid of the main character humans for a while.

I wouldn't call any of these "Main Characters", they're all secondary characters IMO. The McCawleys were the most important of them, but Tommy and Berlin were hanger ons.

[zxy556575]

I think it's always been more of an ensemble show than a lead-driven one, but Nolan and Irisa were our point of entry into Defiance and we used to pretty much see the world through their eyes. I think that's changed, which in general I'm neutral about, but I do see the pendulum as having swung. Grant Bowler also seems a little bored and disinterested to me.

[raven]

I agree the show has been an ensemble, but I like the Nolan/Irisa relationship best of all the relationships on the show and I think both characters have changed within their world in believable ways while still remaining themselves.  Even though I thought Nolan was kind of stupid this episode and should have been able to toss the VC spy off himself (plus Grant Bowler is physically bigger than the guy) I can write these instances off respectively as 1) desperation and 2) shock of betrayal.  I wouldn't like to lose either character.

 

Tommy/Kenya/Pottinger at least had exit points that made sense in the story.   The McCawleys were just wiped out for no real good reason that I can see and Berlin just up and left because ?  I like seeing humans adapting to the aliens in their midst and I wouldn't want to lose other human characters I care about.

 

I liked hearing Stahma say she doesn't want to see another world wiped out.  She and Datak are fun characters and had good showings this episode but I don't want either one to take over the show. 

[jhlipton]

I thought the infiltrate/Indogene guy was stupid for showing his hand so early when he could likely have done a lot more damage by biding his time instead of taking out ten people or so. Maybe he thought it was worth it for the chance to kill three of the leaders.

 

He wiped out the entire militia and had a fair chance to kill Nolan and Irsa -- if Irisa had n't been able, mentally and physically, to attack, they would both be dead.

 

 

I do wonder how Papa Omec will convince the rest of his race to get along when he can't even get his daughter/girlfriend to behave for an hour without endangering their agenda.

 

I still like the daughter more than the dad. The dad is turning his back on Omec history and culture for p***y an d pancakes. Both are tasty, but I wouldn't stop being human for them.

 

I thought for sure when Nolan and Beckham caught up with Pappa Omec in that house that Pappa Omec was going to out Beckham as an Indogene -- because he gave him a long looking at.

I think Papa Omec did smell an Indogene, but it was "not his fight".

[maczero]

Datak, you crafty, unkillable son of a bitch. Are we supposed to assume he was left alive on the shaming rack because the rock-pilers obeyed Amanda's instructions and all went home? He must have been there at least 2-3 hours.

How long does it generally take for the shaming rack to do its job?  I was under the impression that it was something that lasted all day with breaks in between to prolong the torture.

 

He just came across as a frat boy. Okay, a sadistic and violent frat boy, but a frat douche nonetheless. 

I never saw Rahm as a frat boy until this episode.  There was something very "Jackass"  about the way he and his crew responded to Datak cutting off his arm.

 

I still like the daughter more than the dad. The dad is turning his back on Omec history and culture for p***y an d pancakes. Both are tasty, but I wouldn't stop being human for them.

lol!

 

In response to Nolan not being able to handle the spy, I was bothered by it at first but Nolan doesn't have to win every fight.  First, he's getting up there in years so losing a fight every now and then makes sense.  Also, Nolan is a brawler.  Not much evidence of any training with his fighting style.  Who's to say the Indogene wasn't some Votan martial arts specialist.

Edited July 27, 2015 by maczero

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's get back to discussing the episode, and not characters they've killed off, characters they could kill off, etc.

 

Also, let's remember the golden rule here at PTV, as per David T. Cole;

 

My golden rule for forums is to pretend you are at someone else's party. Different opinions are welcomed and debate is encouraged but if you can't converse without name calling or flaming then you'll get The Size Nines out the door.

 

Let's be respectful to each other. Thanks.

[coyotedelmar]

Didn't expect Datak to survive, and at least slightly thought (when he got the knife) he was going to cut the device out. Iffy on if I'm happy he survived or not, don't think he's been that interesting since Season 1 (but then Stahma became muuuch more interesting so fine with that). 

 

The flashbacks were nice and it was nice to get a bit of insight into Datak's childhood and growing up. 

 

I don't have a problem with Nolan being accepting of the spy, I think part of the issue might be that we already knew he was a spy so it seems more stupid then it was. I'll give that in a normal situation he'd probably be more skeptical, but considering how desperate the town was for fighters and the fact the VC just infiltrated, I can easily see blindly trusting anyone decent with a weapon (well, at least anyone human).

 

Was happy to see Papa Omec get involved in helping the town, even if it was only that one case and he backed off afterwards. Glad to hear he also turned to wanting to co-exist instead of take over the planet, not that it was overly surprising but still happy to actually hear it finally. Though Kinzi seems likely to ruin any chance of that actually happen. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

There was a lot of stupid in this episode - Nolan latching onto some unknown guy because he did well in a fight??  When he knows Defiance has been infiltrated??

Then not going along with Amanda's smarter plan, resulting in all the inexperienced kids getting killed.  I like Nolan but come on now.  I thought Alak might be the key with his almost recognizing the guy, but nope.  The Butcher of Yosemite is getting soft, couldn't even kill the guy.  Thankfully Irisa could.

 

Then Rahm letting Datak into camp.  I don't mind that one so much because it meant Datak lived, but still, pretty dumb of him (Rahm), considering. 

It's easy to say with the benefit of knowing everything that Nolan should have been more suspicious of Tex. He knows that the Indogenes can pose as humans. He knows that, as of the bar hostage scene, that somehow VC people got into Defiance, etc. etc.

 

However, Tex did save his life, and did appear to be the one who discovered how the VC got into Defiance. So he seemed to do things to earn trust.

 

If anything, it's Tex who was stupid. He could have legitimately killed Amanda and Nolan (along with the rest of the bar hostages) and taken out both its political and military leadership in one swoop. I can "get" why he didn't -- by infiltrating longer, he could find out more about Defiance's defenses and put himself in a position to take them out. Which he mostly did. But he did so in a stupid way.

 

He could have just been "The VC must have booby-trapped the tunnel" after blowing up most of the militia people. And then he could have taken out Nolan, Irisa and Alak at his leisure, returned to the town and been like "We got massacred! Nolan's dead! Irisa's dead! I barely got out alive. I guess I'll have to run the military resistance to my lord and mast...I mean, to that evil no-goodnik Rahm Tahk."

 

He could have also just sniped Nolan and Irisa before even exiting the tunnel and not risk a fist-fight. 

 

I think that Nolan's plan actually was better. Sealing up the one tunnel doesn't stop the VC from using whatever cutting technology to open it up again, or from creating a new tunnel. Whereas it's possible with the element of surprise that they could have attacked whatever VC troops were at the end of the tunnel and maybe even the main encampment. 

 

Remember, with just Nolan and Irisa, they managed to blow up a major asset for the VC and really should have been able to kill their general. Given that, I think it was a reasonable risk to try to take the fight to the VC. In a normal non-traitor scenario, they could always fall back and implement Amanda's plan later.

 

As for Rahm, in many ways, he was an overconfident buffoon. So I could see, as he said, the notion of Datak coming to him as a broken man would appeal to him. I could see if Defiance had literally sent out anyone else besides Stahma, Rahm would have just shot them dead and kept the blockade going.

 

Well, Nolan thought the guy was human. The Votanis Collective didn't have any humans working with them. The spy saved Nolan's life. From Nolan's perspective, the guy was legit.

 

Historically, there have been at least Pilar and another McCawley who worked with the VC, and we had a mercenary sell them weapons. Not that I disagree about the overall point, but actual humans might stab Defiance in the back just as easily as Indogene spies.

 

Yeah, Nolan should have done his due diligence on Beckham -- and asked anyone else like Amanda or Doc Yewll if they knew who this Beckham guy was and how long he had been in town.  I thought for sure when Nolan and Beckham caught up with Pappa Omec in that house that Pappa Omec was going to out Beckham as an Indogene -- because he gave him a long looking at.

 

Even if he seemed suspicious, there's no real way to check his story of "just passing through to get some mercenary work in some other area." No one is going to know everyone who passes through Defiance, even with the stasis nets up most of the time. Amanda was there at the bar hostage taking and later at the discovery of the tunnel. So if anything about Tex was suspicious to her, she had ample opportunity to say so. Yewll seems to keep largely to herself (at least, I don't remember her socializing with anyone or being much of anywhere that was not her office, the Mayor's office, jail, or a place she was treating someone), so the main way she would know Tex would be if she treated him for something. 

As for people recognizing Tex as an Indogene, I was hoping that his reaction to Papa Omec would have given him away. I mean, to a normal human, it would be just like "What's the deal with that purple alien guy?" But with him, he seemed to be much more terrified than that, even though he tried to suppress it. At least, that's what I read into what Tex was doing. I was hoping that Nolan would catch that and nip the whole spy thing in the bud. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

He wiped out the entire militia and had a fair chance to kill Nolan and Irsa -- if Irisa had n't been able, mentally and physically, to attack, they would both be dead.

 

...

 

I still like the daughter more than the dad. The dad is turning his back on Omec history and culture for p***y an d pancakes. Both are tasty, but I wouldn't stop being human for them.

As a point of order, Tex wiped out only about half the militia, although presumably the best half. Nolan had Amanda take the other half and surround the building in case Alpha Team (my term, not the show's) was killed, with orders not to let anyone through. 

 

I bet for the right p---y or pancakes, some people might betray their species. Especially if they don't think of there being consequences to that betrayal. Certainly, people have turned traitor for not much more.