Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

[MrsR]

 

that they promote a character as a Jedi and he ends up not being one

Are they really promoting him as a Jedi?

 

Just because he's holding a light saber?

 

It's that whole conflated idea that only Jedis can touch light sabers. That's bull.

 

I saw promotion material and nothing in it said that he was a Jedi.

 

As for Lors. I suspect he's the character played by Mads Mikkelsen in Rogue One. He hasn't been in the Rogue crew photos and they've made a point of saying he's not a villain. Seems fitting.

[MisterGlass]

The lightsaber is a bit of a misdirect, but I don't object.  Han wielded that lightsaber himself to slice open a tauntaun.  A lightsaber at heart is a weapon, even if it is meant to be elegant, and from a more civilized age.

 

As for Finn being compared to Jar Jar, I don't see that at all.  He was a good, imperfect character that started out with only the motive of escape and decided to embrace the cause for a friend.  Finn is closer to being the new Han Solo.  The only possible over the top moment was when Finn was trying to drink at the watering hole next to that giant creature.  However, he wasn't being stupid, he was desperate for water to save himself after walking alone across a brutal stretch of desert, and ended up in an awkward circumstance.  The next moment he was ready to hep Rey if she needed it. 

 

Jar Jar on the other hand was continuously a fool and a clumsy liability.  Jar Jar was comic relief gone very wrong.  They made the wise decision of leaving comic relief to the droids in this.  BB-8 giving a thumbs up with his little lighter got a massive laugh in my theater.

[Danny Franks]

Hopefully the fact that Finn is a hero, DID wield a lightsaber without any Force abilities, is the only unique concept in the movies, showed astonishing strength of character and will in defecting from the only life he's ever known for no other reason than recognizing it was wrong, and is basically adorable will mitigate any potential complaints about him not being a Jedi. Han is the most popular character in the series (I feel comfortable saying that), and he's no Jedi, so I think the audience is fine with heroes who aren't Force sensitive. Doing it without any special abilities only makes it more brave and honorable.

 

 

This. I think people need to avoid thinking that Jedi are the only truly important people in the story, and understand that being able to wield the Force isn't the be all and end all. I've said it before, but Han was the coolest character in the original trilogy, and had no interest in the Force. Didn't even believe in it, at first. Leia was Force sensitive but had no training and didn't use it to be the badass Rebellion commander. Boba Fett, the fanboys' fantasy figure, never displayed any affinity with the Force either.

 

The prequels and the TV shows and video games have contributed to the idea that your Star Wars hero needs to be a Jedi, and anyone who isn't is less important, so I'm glad that this movie seems to be telling us that not all your heroes need to be potential Jedi to be pretty great.

 

I've actually seen people say that Finn is the movie's Jar Jar Binks. Which, considering that Jar Jar is basically a Minstrel show character, certainly is something.

 

 

Yeah, people who says things like that really do inadvertently say more about themselves than they realise. Finn's humour was very modern, and could have been lifted out of any movie or TV show, but that's what made it funnier, in my view.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Danny Franks

[benteen]

Lupita agreed to the role and was really good in it (she has a great voice) but I do think it's a crime to CGI that beautiful face of hers.

 

I think there's definitely repressed memories at work with Rey.  That being said, I am currently reading the Before the Awakening book, that focuses on her, Finn and Poe before TFA.  It does give explanations for her knowledge and piloting ability and at least one aspect is based on a throwaway line I believe she said to Finn during the movie.

 

Jedi or know, Finn proved himself to be a hero in TFA and that's the most important thing.  I'm fine with him wielding a lightsaber even if he wasn't a Jedi as this film made clear that the stormtroopers do have training with non-blaster weapons.

[JessePinkman]

I'm really at the point where Lupita Nyong'o is so pretty and talented that I want her to appear in the movies as someone else. Or just have Maz reveal her true form...I don't care, I just want to see her face!

[kili]

This is a series that has spanned three decades - 7 movies, 1 cartoon movie, 2 major TV series, several comics and books and action figures and this is the first time a character who's wielding a light sabre on the poster is not a Jedi.

But that is consistent with JJ Abrams. He loves twists, so I can see him not wanting to give everything away in the poster. 

 

Him not being a Jedi is not the problem or the discussion. Him not being a Jedi after being promoted as one - and then having the very possibility of him being a Jedi treated as a joke ... for reasons... is.

Lots of actors, many of them not POC, were considered for the role of Finn. So, I believe Finn was written as a character and became a POC character later. He was written to be the non-Jedi who fights with a lightsaber before Boyega was cast.  There was no other character they could use as the fake-out for the twist. I don't think he is treated as a joke Jedi. Han seems to think anybody can wield a light sabre and he lives in universe and has known Jedis. Finn then takes an unfamiliar weapon and does well enough with it. Rey can't even shoot her gun at first.

 

Finn is a great character. He's got a lot of charm, capability (taking out those cannons impressed Poe who is a battle-hardened pilot, so I'm impressed too - not to mention taking out that Tie fighter with a jammed photon gun. He only got one shot), bravery (helping the coveted prisoner escape, taking on Ren), morality (not shooting the villagers) and is relatable (he is the audience's stand-in in many ways).  

 

I think focusing on promo escapades, instead of all the great things he is, diminishes the character more than the twist.

 

I suspect promo escapades comes from thinking of him as a character first and not as only a POC character...and shouldn't that be how it is?

Edited December 29, 2015 by kili

[absnow54]

I guess I haven't completely discounted Finn and the Force yet, so I'm not sure that the promos were complete misdirection. Maz Kanata gave him the lightsaber because she knew he could use it, and as someone who was, without question, completely untrained as a Jedi, he held his own (for a little while) against Kylo Ren. I also stand by Kylo instantly recalling Finn's call number when they said a trooper had gone rogue, because I think Finn created a tremor in the Force and Ren could recognize his light. And even if Finn isn't Force sensitive, it's not like he only used the lightsaber to cut a tauntaun open. He had two action sequences where he used it in combat. Finn wasn't simply comic relief constantly running away for fights. He was terrified and completely out of his depth but he stepped up to every challenge he had to face... kind of like Han Solo, which, to me, makes him cooler than a Jedi.

 

I also think the promotional material made it clear that Rey was the Jedi hero of the saga. She was constantly framed between the red and blue light saber and in the main poster, her staff is completely illuminated by Kylo Ren's saber. Add on top of that the "I've seen your eyes" promo, and you knew she was following the Skywalker's legacy in some capacity. 

[MrsR]

The info I saw from before the release said that Finn was a Storm Trooper.  It also said that the Jedi were gone. Now I can't keep track of what I saw when or heard when but by the time I saw the poster, Finn was a Storm Trooper and there were no Jedi, therefore Finn was not a Jedi.

 

 

[Zuleikha]

Him not being a Jedi is not the problem or the discussion. Him not being a Jedi after being promoted as one - and then having the very possibility of him being a Jedi treated as a joke ... for reasons... is.

I don't think that's a fair summation of what the promo did. I agree that Finn was implied to have Jedi potential because he was pictured with the lightsaber, but the promotional description described him as what he was: an escaped Stormtrooper.

 

If there was a promo bait-and-switch, it was to keep some mystery about Rey's role and her abilities. Finn is the only character who could have been used that way. I don't think he was pictured with the lightsaber solely to protect Rey, though. The lightsaber was Finn's main weapon during the movie, and I think the poster composition is a lot better with him holding the lightsaber than it would be with him holding a blaster (which IIRC, he never actually uses). Also, Rey at the center of the red/blue division with Kylo Ren's red lightsaber to one side and Finn's blue lightsaber to the other is amazing.

 

I've actually seen people say that Finn is the movie's Jar Jar Binks. Which, considering that Jar Jar is basically a Minstrel show character, certainly is something.

Are people saying that seriously or as hyperbole to critique how the movie wrote Finn? I love Finn. I think he's the heart of the movie and everything for him was perfect, but I do sympathize with people who wanted the first Black lead character to be more like Poe. IMHO, that type of characterization wouldn't have worked, but I get where the impulse comes from. I don't understand a serious comparison of Finn to Jar Jar, though. Jar Jar was poorly conceived comic relief. Finn is a real, fleshed-out character with strengths and weaknesses.

[VCRTracking]

Finn was originally written as a white character named Sam. On the page Finn would comes off a lot like a Shia LeBeouf-esque character. A white actor whether he was a doofy guy like Shia or Jay Barachel or was more a pretty-boy it would have been really annoying I think. Boyega is the only reason that character is really likable or makes the bits like "I'm in charge!" work. He's funny(which I honestly didn't expect) but he also has intensity in scenes where he says "You don't know a thing about me. What I've done, what I've seen."

 

Also Poe was first written as black AND he would have been killed off early. That's a tired cliche I'm glad they avoided!

Edited December 29, 2015 by VCRTracking

[caracas1914]

And in today's edition of "Completely Missing the Goddamn Point"...

LOL, I didn't miss the goddam point, that was why I said it was "beyond petulant". Of course Ren was imitating his hero/grandfather Vader by wearing a mask with modified voice, but instead of Portraying tragically flawed/misguided it came off as just fucking silly and laughable.

That part of the story was going for pathos/dark underside and instead it was comically risible. Intent versus actual execution was my point.

Images of "Space Balls" and Rick Moranis, and I'm sure that wasn't the intent.

Edited December 29, 2015 by caracas1914

[Ronin Jackson]

I think the marketing lightsaber misdirection was definitely more about setting up that moment when Rey force snags the lightsaber away from Kylo... it was a little gimmicky sure but overall I appreciate that so much of the marketing kept the contents in the movie unspoiled (it would have been better if there were more surprises in the film... Rey being the one who was force sensitive was telegraphed by the time the big force snag occurred). I HATE it when trailers tell you the whole story of a film... that form of movie marketing needs to die as quick a death as possible. Perhaps they could have avoided using a lightsaber in the marketing at all, but this is Star Wars and they wanted to evoke the familiar elements of the franchise.

 

Not that this is a reason to make decisions about which characters are what, but the film series has had at least one significant black Jedi in Mace Windu, and the female Jedi have all been extras and redshirts so far, which makes Rey the most significant female Jedi in the series so far. I think it's a good thing to see. I'm still not thrilled about how quickly she's using the force techniques... even if they explain it that she has had previous force training and forgot it all. If she was a child when she was abandoned on Jakku it probably will have been a decade plus since she used the force skills, and it's presumably something she forgot she was even trained with. Even to use the old example of a skill you never forget, if someone forgot they knew how to ride a bike and hadn't ridden one in 10 years, they're probably not going be able hop on one and start competing in a pro bike race within 10 minutes of remembering. Being a Jedi has always been something depicted as requiring a dedicated life of discipline and practice. So her force recall to me still comes off as fan fiction, which like or or not, that's still what these movies are until one of the people hired to make them decides to do something different with it. (Help us Rian Johnson, you're our only hope!)

 

But I don't want to call Rey a Mary Sue.. the term is sexist until all the idealistic male characters in fiction start getting such labels (that isn't a variant of this term, since I'm pretty sure idealistic male characters came before it). I do think that Rian Johnson is going to have to develop her inner conflict more. Battling the dark side within is a key part of being a Jedi. Even Luke in the first film was impatient and his farmboy naivete informed the character. Given how much this film followed the first film to a T, this was not the best aspect to deviate from. When Rey becomes a fully fledged Jedi, it will have been more rewarding if we see what she's had to overcome to get there, and so far her path has looked too easy. I'd have much rather see Rey go on a path that mirrored Luke's rather than a Death Star knockoff, if following the formula of the first film was set in stone.

[MrsR]

She is not a Jedi.

 

She is someone who is force sensitive.

 

Leia is not a Jedi, She is someone who is force sensitive.

 

Maz is not a Jedi. She is someone who is force sensitive.

 

Kylo is not a Jedi. He is someone who is force sensitive.

 

Jedis are specific people who have been through the training and who join a sect after completing a course of instruction  and receiving the blessing of Master Jedis.

 

Holding a light saber does not qualify someone as a Jedi.

 

Jeepers, what is the point of creating a  specific highly respected unique powerful group of warrior/priests if any one who can perform a force affected party trick can be labeled a Jedi.

Edited December 29, 2015 by MrsR

[Ronin Jackson]

I'm not talking about holding a lightsaber... How many non Jedi's have used the "Jedi mind trick". Why do they call it the "Jedi Mind Trick"?  It's not called a "Force Sensitive Mind Trick." Luke was not a Jedi until the third film, and it took him that long to start doing the mind trick. But he was a Jedi in training... a padawan if you will. Call Rey a padawan then... what she is called is not the point... it's obvious she's being set up to be a Jedi in training, who happens to be able to do things it normally takes a force sensitive person years of training to develop.

 

Here are the people who have used the "Jedi Mind Trick" in the series so far: Obi Wan in Star Wars, Luke in Return of the Jedi. Qui-gon in The Phantom Menace, Obi-Wan in Attack of the Clones, and Rey in The Force Awakens. Except for Rey, all of them were fully fledged Jedi or had been training for a long time.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Ronin Jackson

[Ronin Jackson]

Jeepers, what is the point of creating a  specific highly respected unique powerful group of warrior/priests if any one who can perform a force affected party trick can be labeled a Jedi.

 

Well if you want to split hairs about calling Rey a Jedi, please feel free to retroactively edit all references to that to 'padawan'. But again, that's about as close to getting the point as Brandon McManus was to splitting the uprights at the end of regulation last night. Has the mind trick been depicted as a party trick in the series so far? 

[Zuleikha]

Jeepers, what is the point of creating a  specific highly respected unique powerful group of warrior/priests if any one who can perform a force affected party trick can be labeled a Jedi.

Blame the movies on that, IMHO. They didn't do a great job distinguishing Jedis from anyone else who can use the Force. Sith Lords appeared to simply be Jedis gone bad (I gather that the supplementary materials make the relationship more complicated, but in the movies that's what they appear to be). Until Maz and The Force Awakens, I don't believe a movie has every shown someone who can sense the Force but not use it. I also can't remember seeing anyone who can use the Force but isn't a Jedi or a fallen Jedi (I think one of the animated series may have such a character, though, but I haven't seen them and have only picked up pieces here and there about what happened)

 

Rey was set up to be trained by Luke in the next movie, though, so while she's not a Jedi yet, she's on the path. Kylo Ren is a Jedi-gone-bad like Vader. He was trained by Luke. Maz and Leia are not Jedis, though... Maz possibly because she can sense the Force but not manipulate it and Leia because she chose not to learn.

[FormerMod-a1]

Even though Anakin was a force sensitive, the other Jedi didn't want to train him to be a Jedi due to his age.  That alone told me there were other force sensitives out there that weren't Jedi.

[SNeaker]

We don't actually know yet if Rey is a Skywalker, but I take your point. I would prefer Finn not be a Jedi (or Force sensitive or whatever) because I like having awesome characters who aren't, but I won't complain if he does turn out to be.

Edited December 29, 2015 by SNeaker

[caracas1914]

Han Solo and Chewbacca were not force sensitive nor Jedi , but they were (are) great characters.

FWIW I hope Han's death doesn't automatically mean no more Chewie in the next film.

[Zuleikha]

Even though Anakin was a force sensitive, the other Jedi didn't want to train him to be a Jedi due to his age.  That alone told me there were other force sensitives out there that weren't Jedi.

That seems different from Maz to me. Anakin and Leia are both force sensitive, but neither of them seem able to actively choose to use the Force while untrained (Anakin subconsciously used it to help pilot the pod; Leia senses Luke's danger and Han's death). It seems like out of uncontrolled blips, they function just like everyone else. The impression I had from Maz is that she's constantly connected to the Force, like her Force sensitivity is another sense. She seems more in control. I could be wrong about that, though. Maybe she's exactly the same.

 

Sidious and Maul were never Jedi. The PT actually makes it clear that even Jedi who leave the Order like Dooku aren't automatically suspected of being Sith.

I literally just rewatched the prequel movies, and I was unclear on both of those things. :) It's off topic for this thread, but I am so confused about how Sidious's training worked. Maybe I'll take that to the Star Wars saga thread.

 

Right now the only active Forces users in this story are all members of the same immediate family. Even the OT had Ben Kenobi and Yoda.

Although there is an in-story reason for that: all of the other ones were caught in a Jedi massacre at some point! And assuming Rey is indeed a Skywalker, it seems likely that her family background is the reason why she survived.

 

I don't want Finn to be force sensitive because I like having only one force sensitive lead, but I do want some of the other Knights of Ren to be force sensitive. I read someone somewhere theorize that the name suggests a group of former Jedi trainees (Jedi Knights --> Knights of Ren), although we only see Kylo Ren with a lightsaber. 

[Danny Franks]

FWIW I hope Han's death doesn't automatically mean no more Chewie in the next film.

 

I'm hoping that Chewie going with Rey to find Luke is indicative of what he's going to do, now Han is gone. He can be Rey's sidekick and loyal buddy, which is fitting given her mysterious affinity with the Falcon and with Chewie. The thing with Chewie is, although Peter Mayhew is an old man who isn't in the best health, the character isn't weighed down by that, so he can easily transition into the new, young cast of characters.

 

I'd find it odd if Chewie did just disappear anyway, because he had relationships with Luke and Leia, and even with C-3PO, in his own right. He was as much a member of the Rebellion by the end as they were.

 

Technically the series has never had only one Force sensitive lead. In the OT, Luke/Leia; in the PT Anakin/Obi-Wan. I don't see why Finn being Force-sensitive takes anything from Rey. She'd still be a Skywalker. She'd still be the biggest baddest Jedi next to Luke.

 

 

While it's technically correct, I think it's disingenuous to say that Leia was a Force-sensitive lead in the original trilogy. She never showed any inkling of it until (arguably, because you could say that it was Luke's doing) she heard Luke calling for her at the end of Empire. And after that, she showed nothing else until claiming that "somehow I've always known" that Luke was her brother in Jedi.

 

But I feel like this argument is getting bogged down in semantics, when the original point was that Finn not having to be a Jedi or undefined Force user was a welcome decision. He's already shown a lot of moral courage and fortitude and loyalty, I don't need him to be able to move stuff with his mind to see him as a hero.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Danny Franks

[anna0852]

She stole Linds Hunt's role. It is what she played in Silverado and now NCIS

I'm so glad someone else made that connection! My first thought on seeing Maz was 'Hetty!'

[jennifer6973]

I'm so glad someone else made that connection! My first thought on seeing Maz was 'Hetty!'

 

I did also.

[Lantern7]

I wouldn't be surprised if Finn was Force sensitive. He's a Stormtrooper that overcame his programming. That's gotta be indicative of something special.

 

Not a slam on Peter Mayhew . . . how old is Chewbacca? If he was an adult in Ep3, he's gotta be downright ancient by now. I wouldn't be surprised if "Chewbacca" was a linage thing, and the Wookie we're seeing is the second guy. Or possibly third.

[MisterGlass]

According to Wookiepedia, wookies live about 400 years.  Chewie is said to have been born 200 years before the battle of Yavin, so he is more or less middle aged.  I noticed that the movie had a younger Chewbacca double credited.  I certainly hope Chewie continues to be in the series; this one gave him some good moments to build on.

 

 

We already did the "I am the Last of the Jedi" arc in the OT. If it's the ST, and the whole galaxy is still waiting on One Jedi to pass on the torch, then the story is standing still not moving forward, and we're still going to wait for another thirty years in GFFA time to see if the Jedi Order (might) get re-established.

 

I think that is actually what's happened.  In his first attempt to train new Jedi Luke made the same mistake that Obi-Wan did - he empowered a future Dark Side user.  I think Luke retreated until he has the wisdom and ability as a teacher to do better.  Or until he has a student who has the potential to overcome temptation.  There are at least two Dark Side users right now.  Rey's emergence means that there can now be two Light Side users, and possibly more.

 

Spelling edit.

Edited December 30, 2015 by MisterGlass

[Morrigan2575]

Wookies have very long lifespans, centuries long IIRC

Edited December 30, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Lantern7]

Thanks, MisterGlass and Morrigan2575. I'm not super into the franchise . . . I only read the latest Star Wars and Darth Vader trade paperbacks because they were available from my library's system.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks, MisterGlass and Morrigan2575. I'm not super into the franchise . . . I only read the latest Star Wars and Darth Vader trade paperbacks because they were available from my library's system.

Not to get too off topic but I've been reading both comics, I dropped Darth Vadar but, the Star Wars title is really good.

The discussion about Rey being too good with the force for someone untrained has me thinking. Is it possible that the Force itself could be guiding Rey? Teaching her? Apparently the Force created a child so it's possible the force can be active/aware?

Edited December 30, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[bosawks]

Anyone else think Ren was susceptible to the dark side because Leia smoked during the entire pregnancy?

[JessePinkman]

Anyone else think Ren was susceptible to the dark side because Leia smoked during the entire pregnancy?

 

No, it's because she listened to a lot of My Chemical Romance.

 

I think Chewie is now Rey's co-pilot (maybe Anakin isn't the only Jesus allegory in the series!).

 

Did anyone else find it just a little bit weird when Han was proposing that this teenage girl join his two man (ish) crew? Han's a stand up guy of course but it was just a little...hands off, grandpa.

[MrsR]

Don't go blaming it on the death sticks!! ™ Obi Wan

 

It could just have easily been what ever drugs Darth Vader used on her. Hooked her for the rest of her life they did.  Leia's an ex-junky if ever I saw one.

 

It's the weight gain that gives it away. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by MrsR

[Joe]

According to Wookiepedia, wookies live about 400 years.  Chewie is said to have been born 200 years before the battle of Yavin, so he is more or less middle aged.  I noticed that the movie had a younger Chewbacca double credited.  I certainly hope Chewie continues to be in the series; this one gave him some good moments to build on.

Peter Mayhew is getting on, and he has bad knees. He did the face closeups, of course, but probably not much of the running around. I'd like to see a moment in the next movie where Chewie grabs Luke and hugs him like in ESB.

 

 

Did anyone else find it just a little bit weird when Han was proposing that this teenage girl join his two man (ish) crew? Han's a stand up guy of course but it was just a little...hands off, grandpa.

Nope. She might be his daughter or neice. Also, I got the feeling he'd lost his last crew to the Rathtars. It's possible he was thinking she's useful but expendable. Nothing letcherous.

[JessePinkman]

Nope. She might be his daughter or neice. Also, I got the feeling he'd lost his last crew to the Rathtars. It's possible he was thinking she's useful but expendable. Nothing letcherous.

 

Well yeah...I know it's not lecherous, obviously, but the idea of an old man, a wookie and a young girl just LOOKS iffy. Whatever, moving on.

[pricklypear]

Has Hayden Christensen learned to act since the prequels?  That's an honest question as I haven't seen him in anything else.  

He's actually quite good in Shattered Glass. I hope, if HC appears in future movies as a spirit that the writers remember that when he died, he was Annakin, not Darth Vader.

 

Just saw TFA this afternoon, and I really liked it. Husband and I had similar "sameness" reactions to it that a lot of people did, but I like that it returned to the darkness and the humor of the original three. I think it was a good call on JJ Abrams' part to pay homage to ANH rather than call to mind any of the prequels. Hopefully the next two movies will move away from that familiar feeling, at least in plot. In cinematography and tone, it was comforting for fans, I think, to be reintroduced in such a way. 

[K-9]

In the beginning of the movie, was that stolen tie fighter refueling or was the tether its theft-deterrent system? 

 

Wonder what Rey's food item was that puffed up like a large muffin.  Made me hungry.

 

I wish that Luke's hiding place, where the TFA ends, will be revealed in the next film as 

Earth!

[Jediknight]

Not to get too off topic hut I've been reading both comics, I dropped Darth Vadar but, the Star Wars title is really good.

The discussion about Rey being too good with the force for someone untrained has me thinking. Is it possible that the Force itself could be guiding Rey? Teaching her? Apparently the Force created a child so it's possible the force can be active/aware?

You dropped Vader?  Can't agree with that, I've enjoyed Vader as I've enjoyed all of Marvel's recent Star Wars series.

 

There's no doubt the Force was guiding her.  It called out to her to get Luke's lightsaber at Maz's, and Maz even told Rey that the light will guide her.  And then you have the Kylo vs Rey fight, when Rey remembered what Maz said, closed her eyes, let the Force in, and stomped Kylo.  The Force was no doubt guiding Rey.

[benteen]

I'm hoping that Chewie going with Rey to find Luke is indicative of what he's going to do, now Han is gone. He can be Rey's sidekick and loyal buddy, which is fitting given her mysterious affinity with the Falcon and with Chewie. The thing with Chewie is, although Peter Mayhew is an old man who isn't in the best health, the character isn't weighed down by that, so he can easily transition into the new, young cast of characters.

 

I'd find it odd if Chewie did just disappear anyway, because he had relationships with Luke and Leia, and even with C-3PO, in his own right. He was as much a member of the Rebellion by the end as they were.

 

 

While it's technically correct, I think it's disingenuous to say that Leia was a Force-sensitive lead in the original trilogy. She never showed any inkling of it until (arguably, because you could say that it was Luke's doing) she heard Luke calling for her at the end of Empire. And after that, she showed nothing else until claiming that "somehow I've always known" that Luke was her brother in Jedi.

 

But I feel like this argument is getting bogged down in semantics, when the original point was that Finn not having to be a Jedi or undefined Force user was a welcome decision. He's already shown a lot of moral courage and fortitude and loyalty, I don't need him to be able to move stuff with his mind to see him as a hero.

 

Peter Mayhew's stunt double for Chewie's action scenes was a former PSU basketball player named Joonas Suotamo.

 

http://fansided.com/2015/12/20/star-wars-chewbacca-force-awakens/

 

Chewie following Han is a no-brainer.  The old EU backstory (which is also alluded to in the TFA Visual Dictionary) is that he owes Han a life debt.  The original EU backstory is that Chewie was freed from slavery by Han, who was in the Imperial Navy at the time.  This led to Han being thrown out and Chewie joining up with him afterwards.  I hope this is a backstory that they keep because I always found the idea of Han being a former Imperial before his smuggling days to be utterly fascinating.

 

Chewie's first loyalty would always be to Han even though he was very close to Luke, Leia and the droids.  I did feel though and still felt that Chewie would have joined Han and Leia in tearing apart the galaxy trying to look for Luke after he disappeared.

You dropped Vader?  Can't agree with that, I've enjoyed Vader as I've enjoyed all of Marvel's recent Star Wars series.

 

There's no doubt the Force was guiding her.  It called out to her to get Luke's lightsaber at Maz's, and Maz even told Rey that the light will guide her.  And then you have the Kylo vs Rey fight, when Rey remembered what Maz said, closed her eyes, let the Force in, and stomped Kylo.  The Force was no doubt guiding Rey.

 

I agree.  The Darth Vader comic is REALLY good.

[Mars477]

Jesus, Kylo/Rey fan girls are insane.

[anna0852]

Jesus, Kylo/Rey fan girls are insane.

I hope this is limited to teenage girls, who aren't know for their good taste and that they out grow it sooner rather than later.

 

Aside from the whole potential sister/first cousin thing I'm wondering how anyone can overlook the fact he's a cold-blooded murderer!

[absnow54]

The scene where he tauntingly invades her mind and tells her not to be afraid is so rapey too. It's so much more violating than when he does it to Poe. *shudder*  He's an entitled fuckboy, so he's primed to be woobiefied. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by absnow54

[Eyes High]

If I had to imagine Han and Leia's kid's appearance, Adam Driver would not be my first choice (short brunette girl + medium-height mousy brown haired guy = very tall black-haired guy?), but as in Game of Thrones, where the casting director (mostly) cast the best young actors without worrying too much about whether they were supposed to resemble their screen parents, it worked for me. I'd also rather have an interesting-looking actor who is charismatic and capable than a good-looking actor who can't act to save his life with the charisma of a limp dishrag. Sometimes you get a gorgeous actor who's as competent an actor as they are beautiful, but if one has to be favoured at the expense of the other, I think talent should trump look every time.

 

The funny thing is that I always thought that the artistic depictions (on novel covers and such) of Han and Leia's kids in the EU didn't much resemble either of them. They looked generically pretty in the manner of teen drama stars as opposed to the product of people resembling Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford, who while very good-looking have a distinctive "look." It's also kind of amusing now that Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher have real-life grown kids (albeit not with each other) who look nothing like those depictions, either. Kylo looks nothing like Ben Ford, Malcolm Ford, or Willard Ford. Assuming she is Han and Leia's daughter, Rey looks nothing like Billie Lourd, Carrie Fisher's real-life daughter, or Georgia Ford, Harrison Ford's real-life daughter. Assuming Rey is Luke's daughter, Rey looks nothing like Chelsea Hamill, Mark Hamill's real-life daughter. Achieving family resemblance in TV/film is overrated.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Eyes High

[SNeaker]

Family resemblances are weird anyway. Unless someone seems completely off in coloring (or even race) I never really get the complaints about actors not resembling each other within fictional families. Not everyone looks "just like" someone in their family. The way the genes mix can produce results that don't really resemble anyone. I don't look like anyone in my family. My brother has four sons who look nothing like each other. It happens. I think Ben is meant to have something close to Leia's coloring and Han's height (though Hayden is pretty tall too.) Beyond that it could be anything. We don't know what Han's parents looked like.

Edited December 30, 2015 by SNeaker

[absnow54]

I do think that both Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley have a passing resemblance to Natalie Portman. Okay, Adam Driver is a huge stretch, but I saw a manip with him wearing one of Queen Amidala's head pieces and now I can't unsee it. They have sharper features, I think, which the rest of the Skywalker/Solo cast do not.

 

But I agree, I'll take acting talent over physical resemblance any day, and I feel like Adam Driver really brought it to the role.

Edited December 30, 2015 by absnow54

[anna0852]

Daisy definitely looks like Natalie.

[Zuleikha]

Jesus, Kylo/Rey fan girls are insane.

Are they cheering for Kylo/Rey as is or are they imagining Rey-redeems-Kylo-with-the-power-of-her-awesomeness stories? I feel like I understand the latter on an intellectual level. The overall philosophy of the series combined with Leia/Han's conviction that there is still good in Kylo suggests he will be redeemed. Rey, as the main character, is the logical one to do it. 

 

I'm not convinced that Kylo Ren will be redeemed, and if he is, I do not believe it will be by the power of Rey's awesomeness or her love. If Kylo Ren weren't Han/Leia's son, I would want him to die as a pathetic villain wannabe. But since he is, I'm torn between the former desire and the desire for him to be redeemed for Han/Leia's sake. Han still loved Kylo even at the moment of his death, and I want that to mean something more than a tragedy.

 

Adam Driver would not be my first choice (short brunette girl + medium-height mousy brown haired guy = very tall black-haired guy?)

I assumed Kylo's hair color was dye.

[jennifer6973]

I do think that both Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley have a passing resemblance to Natalie Portman. Okay, Adam Driver is a huge stretch, but I saw a manip with him wearing one of Queen Amidala's head pieces and now I can't unsee it. They have sharper features, I think, which the rest of the Skywalker/Solo cast do not.

 

But I agree, I'll take acting talent over physical resemblance any day, and I feel like Adam Driver really brought it to the role.

 

 

I saw that also and it made me giggle.

[kili]

If I had to imagine Han and Leia's kid's appearance, Adam Driver would not be my first choice (short brunette girl + medium-height mousy brown haired guy = very tall black-haired guy?), but as in Game of Thrones, where the casting director (mostly) cast the best young actors without worrying too much about whether they were supposed to resemble their screen parents, it worked for me

Normally, I'm with you. I'd rather have an interesting actor and have to fanwank the family resemblance. But, for some reason, Adam Driver kept taking me out of the scene. He looked so totally unlike his parents - the shape of his nose, eyes, mouth, head - there isn't a single feature from either of his parents. I kept wanting him to put his mask back on so I could go on believe that Leia/Han were his parents. And I didn't find his acting made up for it. With his mask on, I found his conflict believable. When he took it off, he just seemed kind of lifeless. 

 

Maskless Kylo was my biggest letdown for the movie. With his mask, Kylo was interesting and scary. Without his mask, I just wanted him to stop whining and get a job.

[benteen]

Daisy definitely looks like Natalie Portman and that works out great for the character of Rey if she does turn out to be a Skywalker.  People look like their grandparents too.

[Bats27]

I REALLY liked this.  It gave me exactly what I wanted, an entertaining, well-made, well-directed, movie with a bunch of character that I instantly liked and some intriguing story points.  I wouldn’t rank it over ESB (that’s next to impossible to top) and I’m not sure if it’s above ANH for me (both this and ANH do some things better than others).  But it’s better than the rest easily I think.  The best part for me was the characters, they ALL had great chemistry with each other and the script gives them lots of good banter/dialogue to play off of each other with.  Finn/Rey, Finn/Poe, Finn/Rey/Han, heck even something like Kylo/Hux’s rivalry, so many fun pairing here, it was great.  This is also the best all-around acting of any SW movie imo.
The action was fun, the effects were great for the most part, and it sets up some intriguing mysteries (I’m ok with the level of ambiguity because it’s only Part 1 or a 3-part story, but that’s just me) that I’m interested to see play out.
Oh and that last scene/shot was PERFECT imo, LOVED every second of it.  If I were to rank the films right now:
1. ESB.
2. TFA/ANH (I go back and forth).
3. ROTJ.
4. ROTS.
5. TPM.

6. AOTC (the only SW film that I actually LOATHE).

Peter Mayhew is getting on, and he has bad knees. He did the face closeups, of course, but probably not much of the running around. I'd like to see a moment in the next movie where Chewie grabs Luke and hugs him like in ESB.

 

Nope. She might be his daughter or neice. Also, I got the feeling he'd lost his last crew to the Rathtars. It's possible he was thinking she's useful but expendable. Nothing letcherous.

After seeing the film, IDK that Rey is Han's biological daughter.  However, I DID pick up on the surrogate father/daughter relationship that they were building (which makes what ultimately happens all the more tragic).  Heck Kylo even mentions it when he peers into her mind "you see Han Solo as the father that you never had" or something along those lines.  Heck they were even finishing each other's sentences at times.

 

So perhaps it's fitting that Chewie seems like he'll be her partner moving forward (judging by the ending).  Han did say that Chewie "kind of liked her."
 

[Browncoat]

I don't see Rey as this perfect pilot of the Falcon.  It took her a bit to figure out the switches, and she crashed all over the place before she got the hang of it.  I saw it more as she was driving an unfamiliar car.  She's not perfect at first -- she has to get used to the size, the difference in where the turn signal or windshield wiper knobs are, but she gets it, and she can zoom around.  If she hadn't said she was a pilot, or if she'd never driven anything before, then maybe it would be a little more suspect, but she was a pilot already.