S03.E07: The Beauty of Our Weapons

[formerlyfreedom]

A visiting arms dealer changes Defiance's fortunes, and divides Amanda, Nolan and Berlin; at the same time, Nolan encounters difficulty recruiting a militia to fight the oncoming Votanis Collective army. Elsewhere, Stahma's presence causes strife among the mysterious Omec; and Datak and Alak have a reckoning.

[Chaos Theory]

Well Damn!  I never thought the show would actually kill Datak.

 

When Ian Ziering showed up I half expected to see flying sharks.

 

As Stirring speeches go the "The strong protect the weak" speech was pretty good.   Who am I kidding, I was moved.  DEFIANCE!

 

I think Stahma would have been better off with the execution squad then with the Omec.    Although this is Stahma we are talking about; I wouldn't count her out just yet.  

 

Lines of the night:  

 

"it is a great honor to devour your father's whore." - Kindzi

 

"He was deeply flawed, but not without honor." - Alak

[mustbekarma]

Can the show please wake up at least one cool, badass female Purple People Eater and kill that petulant child? Her main character trait is annoying. I mean, I get why she let Stahma see the Hive ship with the hundreds of thousands of sleeping Omec. Now Papa Purple People Eater will have to kill Stahma to keep their secret. At least that's what Petulant Purple People Eater wants. I wanted to use a different word than petulant for that annoying brat, but I decided I would keep it clean for once.

 

I kept thinking Datak really didn't want to die by the shaming rack, but wanted to either give Stahma time to rescue him, or give him a chance to manipulate the crowd into letting him go. Nobody joined his "DEFIANCE!" chant, did they"

 

I loved the Nolan/Irisa moments this episode. I also liked how they showed Irisa is just suffering from post traumatic stress, and that her inability to kill is based on that. Irisa just needs time to grieve and heal, which current circumstances aren't allowing.

 

The whole subplot with the ex-boyfriend just annoyed me. I hate her character deciding to run away. And I just really hate that I can't remember her name right now. I kept waiting for the boyfriend to say, "come with me, or I won't give Defiance the codes to the weapons." Since he didn't do that, I might actually just like the guy. I was prepared to hate him because I was waiting for that lovely little maneuver.

 

I just need the Votanis Collective dudes to die horribly. Here's my dream scenario. Somehow Petulant Purple People Eater is ambushed and killed by General Crazy. Papa Purple People Eater goes all Homer Simpson "REVENGE!" and eats the General and the rest of his crew.

 

Also, Datak wasn't dead yet, was he? I bet he escapes the rack, probably because Nolan, Yewll, Alak, or Amanda let him go in order to fight the invaders. I won't believe Datak's dead until I see his mangled corpse.

Edited July 18, 2015 by mustbekarma

[zxy556575]

Also, Datak wasn't dead yet, was he? I bet he escapes the rack, probably because Nolan, Yewll, Alak, or Amanda let him go in order to fight the invaders. I won't believe Datak's dead until I see his mangled corpse.

 

I teared up a little when Alak gave Datak his wish of seeing the baby one more time. But he's not dead yet! Someone or something will interfere. I agree with your guess that it will be the invading horde and Nolan needs Datak to help fight.

 

I hate that children add rocks to the shaming pile. But then, I'd never choose to die with dignity when that equals horrible torture. Tradition and culture my ass.

 

Oh, Amanda. How you've changed from the optimistic, gentle woman we first met. You also used to be clean and combed your hair once in a while. I'm also a little nostalgic the villains of old -- Nicky Riordon seems pretty milquetoast these days.

Edited July 18, 2015 by lordonia

[SimoneS]

Oh please, they will never kill off Datak or Stahma. Expect Datak to be very much alive next week. However, I think that might have been my last episode of Defiance. It simply does not entertain me any more.

[rove4]

Datak may survive, but he's gonna be hella sore.

[GaT]

Well Damn!  I never thought the show would actually kill Datak.

Until I see his dead body, he's alive.

 

So, Berlin is gone. That's another human they've gotten rid of. It's just going to be Nolan & Amanda soon.

[johntfs]

Can the show please wake up at least one cool, badass female Purple People Eater and kill that petulant child? Her main character trait is annoying. I mean, I get why she let Stahma see the Hive ship with the hundreds of thousands of sleeping Omec. Now Papa Purple People Eater will have to kill Stahma to keep their secret. At least that's what Petulant Purple People Eater wants. I wanted to use a different word than petulant for that annoying brat, but I decided I would keep it clean for once.

 

I kept thinking Datak really didn't want to die by the shaming rack, but wanted to either give Stahma time to rescue him, or give him a chance to manipulate the crowd into letting him go. Nobody joined his "DEFIANCE!" chant, did they"

 

I loved the Nolan/Irisa moments this episode. I also liked how they showed Irisa is just suffering from post traumatic stress, and that her inability to kill is based on that. Irisa just needs time to grieve and heal, which current circumstances aren't allowing.

 

The whole subplot with the ex-boyfriend just annoyed me. I hate her character deciding to run away. And I just really hate that I can't remember her name right now. I kept waiting for the boyfriend to say, "come with me, or I won't give Defiance the codes to the weapons." Since he didn't do that, I might actually just like the guy. I was prepared to hate him because I was waiting for that lovely little maneuver.

 

I just need the Votanis Collective dudes to die horribly. Here's my dream scenario. Somehow Petulant Purple People Eater is ambushed and killed by General Crazy. Papa Purple People Eater goes all Homer Simpson "REVENGE!" and eats the General and the rest of his crew.

 

Also, Datak wasn't dead yet, was he? I bet he escapes the rack, probably because Nolan, Yewll, Alak, or Amanda let him go in order to fight the invaders. I won't believe Datak's dead until I see his mangled corpse.

 

I'm okay with Datak surviving if he kills Rahm Tak horribly.  I suspect that Stahma will end up seducing Kindzi (and it will be super-hot) which will turn her against her father.

 

For my part, I kind of liked Berlin choosing to leave with von Bach as well as VB not pulling the obvious dick move of "you get the weapons if I get Berlin."  I like it when show at least temporarily avoid cliches.  Figure Berlin will get caught up in the battle with the VC and likely die heroically or otherwise ultimately choose to stay in Defiance.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm curious about Stahma at the end -- did that device that was shoved into her mouth actually teleport her to the ship or was it some kind of VR ?

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, until see actually see them wheeling away Datak's corpse, I don't think he's dead.  My guess he's going to be still hanging out on the torture rack, by the time Rahm and crew get in, and that's going to change the game.  I just don't see this show being brave enough to kill a big character like him off screen.

 

That said, he might be better off then Stahma, if that's possible.  She's more or less become a prisoner of Kindzi now.  T'evgin at least stopped his daughter from killing her, but now Kindzi just force-fed Stahma a pill that somehow sent either her or her mind to the Omec ship.  Nothing good can come out of that.

 

Alak was really on point when he said that Stahma and Datak should have just told everyone the truth.  Even if he didn't find a way to escape himself, that could have allowed Nolan to attempt something during his "recon" mission.  Even if there was risks, it would have been better then where they are at now.

 

So, Berlin's former flame was Conrad Von Bach, played by freaking Ian Ziering of all people.  He pretty much just gives them weapons for free in order to impress Berlin, and not only do they rekindle the flame, it was so good that Berlin is now planning on jetting off with him, and leaving Defiance to fend for themselves.  Not even Amanda guilt-tripping her and calling her a coward worked.  It did seem like she hesitated a bit during Nolan's speech, so I think she'll change her mind.  There would have been no point in upgrading Anna Hopkins to regular status, if Berlin was already going to leave.

 

Irisa is finally picking up a gun again, but she clearly has a lot of issues to get through, before being a full-blown solider again.

 

Rahm's men just blew a underground hole through the status field.  Finally!  The battle should get on the way soon, I hope.

[BungalowSummer]

 

I'm curious about Stahma at the end -- did that device that was shoved into her mouth actually teleport her to the ship or was it some kind of VR ?

 

I think it was VR. DIdn't Nolan figure out that the Omec got to the surface using gravity and that they didn't have enough power yet to go back to the ship?

 

And another set-up episode this week. When will Rahm Tak finally get around to attacking? I suppose with the advance elements sneaking in via tunnel, we'll see the attack start next week. Datak will probably somehow get free when the fighting starts and manage to redeem himself in action. I predict that Irisa's fear of killing will dissolve when Alak and Luke Bear are about to get slaughtered by Rahm or his men.

 

As much as I love Defiance, I'm a little disappointed in this season so far. There's been a lot of set-up, a bit of tidying of loose ends (Pottinger), a strange lack of information about the fate of characters I liked (Sukar, Bertie, Mordecai, and Rynn). Most of all, this season has lacked some of the detail and texture that I most enjoyed about Defiance: the strange Human-Votan mashups in clothing, food, decor; the quirks of how people lived and worked. The flavor of Defiance has changed this season. It's all ashes now. What I'd give for one more fabulous scene of Viceroy Mercado in Casti drag.

 

The Omec are interesting, but they don't make up for all we've lost: the McCawleys, the Tarr crime business and foot soldiers, glimpses of the lives of miners, bartenders, merchants, a frontier lawyer, a corrupt politician. I also think they're making mistakes in the name of "shaking things up." Conflict in relationships is one thing; separating the characters that the audience wants to see together is quite another. And why oh why aren't we seeing more of Doc Yewll?

[johntfs]

We know some of what happened to Mordecai.  He became the author of The Amazing Goddess of the Badlands.

[BungalowSummer]

 

We know some of what happened to Mordecai.  He became the author of The Amazing Goddess of the Badlands.

 

Yes, I know and it's hilarious. That's why I'd love for him to show up and face Irisa's wrath. I sort-of shipped him and Irisa, but I suppose the direction the writers are taking is Alak-Irisa because there's no female on television, human or Votan, who doesn't want a baby! Urgh.

[Makenna]

As much as I love Defiance, I'm a little disappointed in this season so far. There's been a lot of set-up, a bit of tidying of loose ends (Pottinger), a strange lack of information about the fate of characters I liked (Sukar, Bertie, Mordecai, and Rynn). 

Well, like mentioned above Cai is safe and wrote that book. Also one of the Kelovan (keys) is back in his body, the other one is in Irisa. The whole thing last season was that the keys have to remain separated so there is a logical reason why Cai and Irisa wouldn't seek each other out again. 

 

Re Sukar and Bertie if we're following the show's storyline then they should both be dead. The Omec told Nolan that when they rescued him and Irisa the pods were about to die. No one rescued any of Irisa's "followers" so they should be pretty dead by this point. 

 

Rynn left town after her eye was cut out. I doubt she would be returning to Defiance anytime soon after that horrific experience. In fact, she was only in town a couple of days to get money for her parents' land that the McCawleys stole so why would she ever come back anyway??

[MDL]

 

I hate that children add rocks to the shaming pile. But then, I'd never choose to die with dignity when that equals horrible torture. Tradition and culture my ass.

Reminds me of  "The Lottery" (short story by Shirley Jackson), where the children participated in the stoning to death of some randomly selected towns person-the highlight of the annual town picnic.

 

A related, though horrible, question:

Did I miss something else? What exactly is the mechanism of Datak's execution-to -be-does the weight of those stones rip him apart, suffocate him or ????

[BungalowSummer]

I think the Kelovan keys are defunct at this point since the Kaziri and its A.I. were destroyed. If Cai and Irisa are, somehow, linked to the pair that crashed the Kaziri thousands of years ago, they could have the same bond of love, which is why I was shipping them.

Sadly, I must agree with you that Sukar and Bertie are dead, as well as Mercado. I'm just disappointed that these characters, who were regulars and favorites of mine, were dismissed from the narrative with single throwaway lines. Will no one mourn for Sukar? Well, at least Rafe got a eulogy of sorts.

Re Datak's execution, the Casti shaming rack apparently is designed to slowly stretch and tear the arms and legs from their sockets -- drawing and quartering. Very medieval.

Edited July 18, 2015 by BungalowSummer

[wayne67]

I kind of hope we see the Omec fight the Votanis Collective on behalf of the town of Defiance if for no other reason than to ensure their supply of gualanite continues.

 

The Omec are supposed to be super tough and scary so it'd be good to see them FIGHT someone they're allowed to kill .

[MDL]

 

Re Datak's execution, the Casti shaming rack apparently is designed to slowly stretch and tear the arms and legs from their sockets -- drawing and quartering. Very medieval.

I thought that might be the case, but I had hoped that i was wrong (shudder). Thanks for the info.

[Clanstarling]

I just need the Votanis Collective dudes to die horribly. Here's my dream scenario. Somehow Petulant Purple People Eater is ambushed and killed by General Crazy. Papa Purple People Eater goes all Homer Simpson "REVENGE!" and eats the General and the rest of his crew.

I didn't know it was my dream scenario too, until I read your post.

 

I thought there was a nice bit of business (I may have imagined it) when Irisa armed up and looked in the mirror. Her jacket, and even the sheaths for the knives, didn't seem to fit the way they did before. They'd always been tight against her, like a second skin. Did anyone else notice that?

 

I thought Datak had a plan in mind when he requested the shaming rack, but by the time he went up there, I started to believe it was truly his choice, that he wanted to atone for his sins. I expect it will get interrupted by battle, and possibly Datak will be a changed man. If so, hopefully it will be in a good way. Alak bringing his son for him to see moved me more than I thought it would.

 

I kind of like Stahma being in real danger she can't talk or simper her way out of. Though Kinzi is beyond annoying and her dad a terrible father since he continues to trust she'll follow his orders. Though, she did have a point (I'm reluctant to say) about sheltering a spy from the people whose help they need in the mines.

 

It was refreshing that the old boyfriend didn't turn out to be a jerk - yet. At least when it comes to personal relationships - and he did give the weapons to Defiance.

Edited July 19, 2015 by clanstarling

[mustbekarma]

I didn't know it was my dream scenario too, until I read your post.

 

I thought there was a nice bit of business (I may have imagined it) when Irisa armed up and looked in the mirror. Her jacket, and even the sheaths for the knives, didn't seem to fit the way they did before. They'd always been tight against her, like a second skin. Did anyone else notice that?

 

I thought Datak had a plan in mind when he requested the shaming rack, but by the time he went up there, I started to believe it was truly his choice, that he wanted to atone for his sins. I expect it will get interrupted by battle, and possibly Datak will be a changed man. If so, hopefully it will be in a good way. Alak bringing his son for him to see moved me more than I thought it would.

 

I kind of like Stahma being in real danger she can't talk or simper her way out of. Though Kinzi is beyond annoying and her dad a terrible father since he continues to trust she'll follow his orders. Though, she did have a point (I'm reluctant to say) about sheltering a spy from the people whose help they need in the mines.

I'm so happy when I'm a corrupting influence.

 

I'm not sure about Datak's motivations. Datak has always played the humility and atonement card when he thought it would manipulate the situation in his favor. The instance that sticks out in my mind is when he publicly kneeled in front of Stahma and basically begged for her forgiveness in front of all the influential Castis. She basically had no choice but take him back. Datak and Stahma manipulate people so frequently that it's hard for me to determine what they're really feeling, except for when they both go "Hulk Smash" on people that piss them off. That's when I can know what's they're actually thinking. I'm still leaning towards Datak thinking he could talk his way out of the execution. He probably thought the Castithans would side with him, considering the unrest. Although I don't think it's out of the question that Datak was really sorry but he still thought he could get out of being executed. He is an eating cake and having it, too, kind of guy. I do think Datak was overdue for a glorious comeuppance. The only problem I have with him being executed is that it's the end of Datak getting hiss ass handed to him. I do like watching him not get his way.

 

Stahma being terrified of Petulant Purple People Eater did disturb me until I remembered just how manipulative Stahma can be. She's the master of playing the helpless, delicate female until she guts you, either literally or figuratively. I have a hard time worrying about the current Perils of Stahma because she is A) evil and B) sneaky. Honestly, I'm hoping for Stahma to airlock the little brat.

[SmithW6079]

Stahma being terrified of Petulant Purple People Eater did disturb me until I remembered just how manipulative Stahma can be. She's the master of playing the helpless, delicate female until she guts you, either literally or figuratively. I have a hard time worrying about the current Perils of Stahma because she is A) evil and B) sneaky. Honestly, I'm hoping for Stahma to airlock the little brat.

Stahma's a master of the game when she's making the rules or when she believes she's smarter than her opponent. The Omec think of her as food, so her usual tricks don't work. I believed she was genuinely frightened for her life, because she's not in control of the situation this time.

Also, I want to see the Omec daughter airlocked too.

[CoderLady]

I'm not sure about Datak's motivations. Datak has always played the humility and atonement card when he thought it would manipulate the situation in his favor. The instance that sticks out in my mind is when he publicly kneeled in front of Stahma and basically begged for her forgiveness in front of all the influential Castis. She basically had no choice but take him back. Datak and Stahma manipulate people so frequently that it's hard for me to determine what they're really feeling, except for when they both go "Hulk Smash" on people that piss them off. That's when I can know what's they're actually thinking. I'm still leaning towards Datak thinking he could talk his way out of the execution. He probably thought the Castithans would side with him, considering the unrest. Although I don't think it's out of the question that Datak was really sorry but he still thought he could get out of being executed. He is an eating cake and having it, too, kind of guy. I do think Datak was overdue for a glorious comeuppance. The only problem I have with him being executed is that it's the end of Datak getting hiss ass handed to him. I do like watching him not get his way.

Back in the series premier, Datak wanted to belong in Defiance as much as he wanted to be a crime lord and was impressively brave when called upon to fight off the bad guys. He's always had that dual nature. He just sacrificed himself to let Stahma escape. I think his speech on the shaming rack was heartfelt.

He can be an evil, touchy, ruthless bastard but not a simple one. I hope he survives.

[kieyra]

Did the actress playing Berlin need to leave the show or something? That was a terrible send-off. I liked her character from the beginning and they should have let her go down swinging. I guess they are leaving her alive for a potential drop in later.

No way is Datak dead.

I wish Irisa had one season where she could just be an emotionally functional bad-ass operating under her own agency.

[zxy556575]

Did the actress playing Berlin need to leave the show or something? That was a terrible send-off. I liked her character from the beginning and they should have let her go down swinging. I guess they are leaving her alive for a potential drop in later.

 

It was fairly perfunctory. Berlin suddenly losing her nerve is not in keeping with what we've come to know of her. If she's really gone, there should at least have been a scene with her and Nolan saying goodbye.

 

It's possible she and the arms dealer ex may get highjacked on the road so she's forced to return to Defiance, but her departure did smack of the actress being written out of the show for whatever reason.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Re Sukar and Bertie if we're following the show's storyline then they should both be dead. The Omec told Nolan that when they rescued him and Irisa the pods were about to die. No one rescued any of Irisa's "followers" so they should be pretty dead by this point. 

 

 

Well, Nolan and Irisa's Pod was doing double duty, so perhaps the other pods are better off? I don't know.

 

Sadly, the fates of minor characters are often tied up in real world issues of budget and actor availablility, and don't always get the treatment they deserve.

[Emily Thrace]

So, Berlin is gone. That's another human they've gotten rid of. It's just going to be Nolan & Amanda soon

I doubt their going to make it outside the stasis net before the battle breaks out. Since they are both humans they may have no choice but to fight. That's actually a truly original way of dealing with a weapons shortage to bad our hero didn't try that from the out set.

 

 

Yes, I know and it's hilarious. That's why I'd love for him to show up and face Irisa's wrath. I sort-of shipped him and Irisa, but I suppose the direction the writers are taking is Alak-Irisa because there's no female on television, human or Votan, who doesn't want a baby! Urgh.

 

Except we had no indication that Irissa didn't want a child before she met Luke. I could see being upset from a feminist standpoint if this was retcon. However since Irrissa was introduced as an adolescent deciding she wants children could simply be part of Irissa maturing. The reality is people who don't want children are a fairly small minority(if vocal) and tv doesn't always have to represent those. The show does have Doc Yewell who probably could have had children at this point(although her age is somewhat ambiguous she is at least mid thirties or the Indogene equivalent) but has chosen not to. Simply being a non-traditional women does not mean Irissa doesn't want children. In fact I think its more progressive for the show to demonstrate that being a badass doesn't mean Irissa is completely masculine and she does in fact have a softer side. Also BSG Starbuck and President Roslin were childfree by choice and remained that way until their death so its not like there is no representation. 

 

Alak and Irissa do have several things in common. Both Votans with a strong affinity for humans. A mix of values from both sides. There is also some really great chemistry between the actors. (I almost wonder if its a case where the actors are dating in real life so TPTB thought it would be a good idea to put them together.) I'm not sure if its endgame I don't think the writers have decided that themselves yet. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop it entirely but I'm interested in what they've shown me so far.

[Ottis]

Did the actress playing Berlin need to leave the show or something? That was a terrible send-off.

 

 

I don't know why anyone should assume she is gone, any more than anyone should assume Datak is dead. The episode ended before either actually happened.

[maczero]

I kept thinking Datak really didn't want to die by the shaming rack, but wanted to either give Stahma time to rescue him, or give him a chance to manipulate the crowd into letting him go. Nobody joined his "DEFIANCE!" chant, did they"

Which was hilarious!  

 

Stahma being terrified of Petulant Purple People Eater did disturb me until I remembered just how manipulative Stahma can be. She's the master of playing the helpless, delicate female until she guts you, either literally or figuratively. I have a hard time worrying about the current Perils of Stahma because she is A) evil and B) sneaky. Honestly, I'm hoping for Stahma to airlock the little brat.

 

Stahma's a master of the game when she's making the rules or when she believes she's smarter than her opponent. The Omec think of her as food, so her usual tricks don't work. I believed she was genuinely frightened for her life, because she's not in control of the situation this time.

I'm in the camp that believes Stahma is genuinely terrified of daughter Omec and it's great.  I do like Stahma but it's nice to see her in situations where she's not in control.  I also like how the daughter's feral/predatory nature unnerves Stahma.  It's gotta feel like a human being trapped in a cage with a hungry lion.

 

It was fairly perfunctory. Berlin suddenly losing her nerve is not in keeping with what we've come to know of her. If she's really gone, there should at least have been a scene with her and Nolan saying goodbye.

That doesn't sound like Nolan.  Berlin was his slam piece for about two minutes.  They ended things amicably when they realized that both of them had someone that they really wanted to be with.  Since then they've been colleagues more so than friends.  Also Nolan threatened to put a bullet in Berlin after she delivered an ass kicking to Irissa.  The polite "Thank you for your service" seems a fitting response to someone leaving that he doesn't have a deep emotional connection with.

 

On a related note, did anyone feel Amanda was out of line demanding Berlin should stay?  What does Berlin really owe Amanda or Defiance?  She didn't grow up there.  And Amanda hands Nolan the lawkeeper position whenever he comes back into town.  She did this to Tommy twice and recently to Berlin.  I don't blame Berlin for jumping ship.  

[raven]

 

I don't know why anyone should assume she is gone, any more than anyone should assume Datak is dead. The episode ended before either actually happened.

ITA.  Part of me thinks that whole Datak execution is a big set up by Amanda, Nolan and the council to punish him.  He should be at least jailed - along with Stahma - but they didn't commit treason or whatever it was called for personal, monetary gain but to save Alak.  They deserve some kind of punishment but not death.  Jeez, overreaction much, Defiance (was what I thought).  Datak asking for the shaming rack was an unexpected bonus!  Stretch him out a bit then let down, back to jail you go!   Of course I could be totally wrong, it is a tough new world.

 

 

On a related note, did anyone feel Amanda was out of line demanding Berlin should stay?  What does Berlin really owe Amanda or Defiance?  She didn't grow up there.  And Amanda hands Nolan the lawkeeper position whenever he comes back into town.  She did this to Tommy twice and recently to Berlin.  I don't blame Berlin for jumping ship.

 

Berlin, I don't know if the actress is still lined up for the show or not.  I'd prefer her to stick around as long as she's off the "hate Irisa because of Tommy" schtick.  Ian Z can come around once in a while.  She sure was in a happy mood the day after they went upstairs :)   So that could go either way.   If she leaves, I don't blame her either.  She doesn't owe Defiance or Amanda, though if she and Ian Z run off together, they should talk to each other if his mother talks to them separately.

 

Amanda may have been out of line but I thought right in character - she is very committed to Defiance and can't seem to understand why anyone else wouldn't be.

 

 

I'm in the camp that believes Stahma is genuinely terrified of daughter Omec and it's great.  I do like Stahma but it's nice to see her in situations where she's not in control.

I'm in that camp too.  For the first time I enjoyed the Omec daughter's portrayal, she came off very threatening and yes, feral to me.  The father is being presented as not too bright (or too arrogant of his leadership status) where she's concerned - REALLY?  you think you're going to leave and she's not going to threaten Stahma?  Jaime Murray's doing good work here, the look on her face at the end - she was startled but then appeared to almost be considering options.  I wasn't quite sure.  I wonder if the Omec daughter (I really need to learn names); if the vision Stahma had was her intended consequence?  Or was it supposed to be something else?

Edited July 21, 2015 by raven

[HeySandyStrange]

I'm in the camp that believes Stahma is genuinely terrified of daughter Omec and it's great.  I do like Stahma but it's nice to see her in situations where she's not in control.  I also like how the daughter's feral/predatory nature unnerves Stahma.  It's gotta feel like a human being trapped in a cage with a hungry lion.

 

 

Count me in as loving what the dynamic between the two women, and how for once Stahma is totally out of her depth. I think it comes down to Stahma being used to having an elevated status from her place in the Votan social strata, and now she is among two aliens who see her as little more then a pretty trinket.

[Chaos Theory]

It was fairly perfunctory. Berlin suddenly losing her nerve is not in keeping with what we've come to know of her. If she's really gone, there should at least have been a scene with her and Nolan saying goodbye.

.

I think it fits with the season as a whole. Dual natures of people. each of the characters had a dual nature that the season has explored. Berlin is a soldier who joined for reasons other then to fight. The E-Rep offered her a family and a sense of safety but when they left Amanda and Defiance became her family but with Tommy dead, Defiance in Jeopardy and her ex giving her a better safer option she is exactly the type to take it especially if she is convinced fighting is a lost cause. Edited July 21, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[BungalowSummer]

Part of me thinks that whole Datak execution is a big set up by Amanda, Nolan and the council to punish him. He should be at least jailed - along with Stahma - but they didn't commit treason or whatever it was called for personal, monetary gain but to save Alak.

Nolan as much as said, iirc, that Datak should have come to him with the truth. Presumably they could have devised a rescue together for Alak. Telling the truth is not, however, the first impulse for either Datak or Stahma.

What they did commit is murder. If I were the mother of the young Castithan d.j. whose severed arm landed on the street when the Tarrs bombed the Arch... Well, I'd be first in line to pitch the heaviest rock I could find into Datak's torture basket. Her son is dead while Alak, ironically, managed to save himself.

Despite all that, though, I'd hate to see the writers kill off Datak or Stahma. There's no denying their characters are probably the most interesting and nuanced on the show. Plus Tony Curran and Jaime Murray have been masterful in the roles from the start.

[laagamer]

Honestly, I don't see how they could kill any of the Tarrs.

 

The transport of Stahma to the Omec ship is either to scare her or force the older Omec to kill her. 

 

I could care less about the romance in this episode. That character stopped being interesting when Tommy died. 

 

Everyone is forgetting about the force that tunneled into Defiance. The fight won't start next episode. That is the point of the Indogene disguise. He's going to infiltrate first and shut down the stasis net. 

 

Can't wait to see it though. Should be interesting. 

[MDL]

Did Stahma look, well, almost pink skinned in that "gray t-shirt"(?) she wore while held captive by Ms. Omec? Was it helped by the glistening coat of sweat? (or is it my TV). Would that be sweat porn?

In the story line, is the "porcelain white" on Stahma's skin  completely natural, or is it enhanced by makeup?  (And no, I don't mean the actress's skin!! :)  )

[johntfs]

Kindzi becomes kind of scary and funny when you think of her as a kid stomping her feet and demanding candy.  Except other people are the "candy."

 

I do like Stahma and T'evgin.  It's like Lady MacBeth dating Othello.

[raven]

 

What they did commit is murder. If I were the mother of the young Castithan d.j. whose severed arm landed on the street when the Tarrs bombed the Arch... Well, I'd be first in line to pitch the heaviest rock I could find into Datak's torture basket. Her son is dead while Alak, ironically, managed to save himself.

Oopsie, I forgot about that.  I don't blame them for pitching rocks in, as I said, Datak certainly deserves punishment (as does Stahma).  I just don't want to lose Datak.  I'm hoping that the PTB in the town have more of an "all hands needed" mentality.  I wouldn't mind seeing some family clashing with Alak/Datak in the future.  I have no idea what could be in store for Stahma's future with the Omec, or without.  Defiance will want some retribution from her.

Edited July 23, 2015 by raven

[Chaos Theory]

There comes a moment where a bad guy either has to die or get reformed.

I held out hope for Datak until Alak came to see him holding his son. That his perfect last moment stuff added to Datak trying a stirring speech and getting no one to listen. I could be wrong but the entire scene was written as a death scene for a flawed character. I cant see many ways for the show to have Datk live and make it believable..

[jhlipton]

I kind of like Stahma being in real danger she can't talk or simper her way out of. Though Kinzi is beyond annoying and her dad a terrible father since he continues to trust she'll follow his orders. Though, she did have a point (I'm reluctant to say) about sheltering a spy from the people whose help they need in the mines.

 

I think the "dad" is ghastly and the daughter is right.  Stahma should be nothing more than a "piece" to him -- of ass now and of meat later.  I was cheering for Kinzi all through her scenes, and I don''t want her "airlocked".

 

 

That doesn't sound like Nolan.  Berlin was his slam piece for about two minutes.  They ended things amicably when they realized that both of them had someone that they really wanted to be with.  Since then they've been colleagues more so than friends.  Also Nolan threatened to put a bullet in Berlin after she delivered an ass kicking to Irissa.  The polite "Thank you for your service" seems a fitting response to someone leaving that he doesn't have a deep emotional connection with.

 

On a related note, did anyone feel Amanda was out of line demanding Berlin should stay?  What does Berlin really owe Amanda or Defiance?  She didn't grow up there.  And Amanda hands Nolan the lawkeeper position whenever he comes back into town.  She did this to Tommy twice and recently to Berlin.  I don't blame Berlin for jumping ship.  

 

 

If I had been Berlin and Amanda said we were "family", I'd have laughed in her face.  Amanda has only recognized her when A. needed B., and otherwise ignored her at best. (And any time Nolan comes to town, B. got swept aside like a dirty rug.  As for Nolan, he's treated her with nothing but contempt from the outset -- the only reason he slept with her was to mess with Tommy.  Nolan is a flat-out bully, and Berlin was his second favorite target (after Tommy).

 

I think it fits with the season as a whole. Dual natures of people. each of the characters had a dual nature that the season has explored. Berlin is a soldier who joined for reasons other then to fight. The E-Rep offered her a family and a sense of safety but when they left Amanda and Defiance became her family but with Tommy dead, Defiance in Jeopardy and her ex giving her a better safer option she is exactly the type to take it especially if she is convinced fighting is a lost cause.

 

Yes, this.  Berlin has been in Defiance for what?  Three years tops, I think.  And the only person who cared for her is gone.  I'd take the first train out, too.

[SmithW6079]

Count me in as loving what the dynamic between the two women, and how for once Stahma is totally out of her depth. I think it comes down to Stahma being used to having an elevated status from her place in the Votan social strata, and now she is among two aliens who see her as little more then a pretty trinket.

Not even a "pretty trinket," just a tasty dish of food.

 

Did Stahma look, well, almost pink skinned in that "gray t-shirt"(?) she wore while held captive by Ms. Omec? Was it helped by the glistening coat of sweat? (or is it my TV). Would that be sweat porn?

In the story line, is the "porcelain white" on Stahma's skin  completely natural, or is it enhanced by makeup?  (And no, I don't mean the actress's skin!! :)  )

I was wondering about Stahma's coloring too. There have been several scenes with her this season where she has appeared pink-skinned, with almost no white coloring that the Castis have.

[Freudian Slip]

So, is anyone else tired of the whiny touchy feely stuff they are doing with the show.  I just had to pause the show because of the 'why do people hurt each other' junk. The world sucks get over it, the world of Defiance sucks even more and the pity poor me stuff will get you and a lot of other killed and killed fast.  The writers need to stop exploring the world of fair and unfair and peace vs war.  That kinda stuff is for soap operas.  This is a Sci Fi show that does not lend itself to this type of exploration of the human condition.  These guys are not on the Enterprise.

[Emily Thrace]

So, is anyone else tired of the whiny touchy feely stuff they are doing with the show.  I just had to pause the show because of the 'why do people hurt each other' junk. The world sucks get over it, the world of Defiance sucks even more and the pity poor me stuff will get you and a lot of other killed and killed fast.  The writers need to stop exploring the world of fair and unfair and peace vs war.  That kinda stuff is for soap operas.  This is a Sci Fi show that does not lend itself to this type of exploration of the human condition.  These guys are not on the Enterprise.

 

Except that exploring the human condition makes for great sci-fi. Star Trek the new BSG Babylon 5 some of the greatest science fiction shows ever and all spent ages on the human condition. If all the show is pretty CGI and technobabble then its the old Battlestar Galatica I wouldn't want to watch that. Defiance has done some amazing things with guilt, family and identity.  I would hate to see them dumb themselves down.