S05.E10: Mother's Mercy

[benteen]

Just another reminder of how bad a father Robert was that Myrcella doesn't mind being an incest baby of Cersei and Jaime.

 

Good lord, Dorne was a complete mess and they really wasted Alexander Siddig  Is there anything more you can do with Dorne after this?

[AlliMo]

Lena Headey was fantastic as always, but whether or not you cared for her storylines, Maisie Williams was the one who was really killing it for me.

[loki567]

 

So, Meryn Trant is "just" a pervert who likes beating little girls...which is exactly what his main characteristic has been on the show so far re: Sansa Stark. D&D are really damned if they do, damned if they don't. I'm glad I didn't jump the gun last week and blame them. Kudos to them for not going for pedophilia. For me, it wouldn't have been much of a stretch, but I feel this is completely in character with the corpse formerly known as Meryn Trant.

 

What are you giving them credit for? That they didn't go through with a full on rape scene with child actresses? They're the ones who created the pedophilia backstory. Trant's a bad guy in the books but there's a difference between beating a girl because your king demands it and diddling kids. And they created  the scene basically because they think the audience are simpletons and need their hand held, "It's okay that Arya's killing this guy, he's a child molester." 

[mac123x]

Lackluster ending to a really mediocre season. 

 

The only way I can salvage the Dorne fiasco is:

1.  Doran authorized killing Myrcella as part of his (very very well) hidden agenda

2.  The boat is owned and crewed by Martell loyalists who will keep Jaime and Bronn prisoner to prevent them from immediately killing Trystane.  Who knows, as fucked up as the show has gotten, they might get transported to Meereen.

 

I think Tyrion and Varys working together in Meereen is an attempt to recapture the season 2 King's Landing vibe.  It won't work though, because KL had so many other characters for them to play off, especially Tyrion / Cercei and their partnership / rivalry / backstabbing.

 

I guess Meryn Trant's sadism is supposed to be a call back to when he beat Sansa in season 2.  As if he wasn't despicable enough already.

 

Jon's last words were "Olly?"  Definitely not up there with "Et tu, Brute?"  I don't care what the actors or producers say, he can't be permanently dead because we'd have no sympathetic characters at the Wall.  You know, the place where real shit is going to go down.  I guess we could do an episode called "A Day in the Life of Dolorous Edd".

 

Arya's going to be Beth the Blind girl, yawn.  More wheel-spinning in Braavos.

 

Lena's head was CGI'd onto her body double's nude body.

 

Badly.  I flashed back to the horrid X-Men Origins: Wolverine movie where they CGI'd Patrick Stewart's face onto what appeared to be a hard-boiled egg.  Lena Heady was fantastic though.

[magdalene]

This right here. I never threaten to quit a show on forums, I don't think I've ever typed the words "I might be done". I just stop watching. See: Outlander.

Having said that: this is me, threatening to quit watching. We get it, you like subverting tropes and the natural flow of storytelling. You like breaking all the things. The problem is, this is rapidly ceasing to be entertainment.

I have no doubt people will continue to follow you down the nihilistic rabbit hole. I just won't be one of them.

And no, Dany and Tyrion are not enough.

Yes. Nihilism isn't enjoyable on any level. Or the slut shaming of Cersei. Though obviously the showrunners and some of the audience got off on that going by the length of the scene, the nudity, and some of the reactions to it I have seen on the net.

Edited June 15, 2015 by magdalene

[J----av]

A friend of mine who's good friends with and has worked with GRRM on some projects related to the book series has been tweeting little reminders about things in the past of the series, including a photo from the first episode when Jon's holding Ghost and the clip of Beric being revived. I don't know if he has inside info for what will happen in the books or not. But I am choosing to take hope here that he knows at least something.

 

Not all trope subversion is a good thing. Tropes became tropes because they work. Surprise and subversion only work if they lead to something even more satisfying than what you were expecting. Yeah, "Ha, fooled you, everyone dies!" subverts the tropes, but it doesn't make for a very good story.

 If he does have inside info i would be PISSED if i was GRRM

[Saje]

This is what happens when an author sells his story before finishing it and allows the producers to jump ahead of him.  He might very well have destroyed his own series.

 

Ugh. Bad, bad finale. And I don't believe a scene of it. It was all a Pam Ewing dream. Fuckshit.

[Bean421]

We got no Jamie in the Riverlands, no warging Stark children, no Ghost of Winterfell and now Kit says Jon is dead.  I just don't care - fuck em all.  Let the White Walkers kill them all and Dany can burn what's left or stay at Meereen with Tyrion - I just don't care.

Amen. If Jon is really truly dead put me on Team White Walker. I hope they start with Olly and Thorne.

[Funzlerks]

Book readers do not know he is alive, but resurrection is a much more common theme in the books with Thoros and Berric and Catelyn still kicking it. Jaime and Brienne, two major POV characters, also seem as though they may be resurrected or at least witness it . The entire Red God religion is much more detailed as are the prophesies that Jon seems to fit. Why focus on Rhaegar if not for Jon being of significance? If he dies and is done then a good fifth of the books is a shaggy dog story.

I never minded the crowd being nasty to Cersei. Cersei would burn them all to save face. She would feed the dogs before them to slight her daughter in law. She doesn't consider them to be like her. They may not know all the things she has done to harm them, but they do "know" her. She cannot hide her hateful nature.

[nksarmi]

How do book fans know Jon survives? There are theories about his parentage, but were they ever confirmed? 

No they aren't confirmed.  And that's the whole point I'm making.  For years - not a season - but years, books fans have been debating a)....Jon's death (with most it seems to me believing he is alive) and ......b) if he survives, how it will happen.  And said theories about his parentage were definitely beat over the head this season of the show. 

 

So sure let's have an actor go out and tell book fans they've been speculating and theorizing for NO reason, because he is dead, dead and not coming back.  Now yes I realize there is the warging option but I consider that such as small possibility at this point, because the show has taken so little care to demonstrate that Jon has that skill (or that any of the Stark children do besides Bran). 

 

So I think a Mel resurrection is our only option if it's going to happen, but now I'm not so sure it will. I mean maybe there is another reason altogether that Mel is at the Wall other than to save Jon? I hope those who say this is just Jon's journey into the "underworld" and he will return are right, but I don't think Kit should have done the interview that way if his return is a possibility.

 

I know that there are those who have thought Jon was dead and some who hope he is, but I personally agree with those who think it's bad writing if they end it like this.  And there are things I can take about characters dying, but bad story telling just isn't fun.  The last two books weren't that great and this season of the show has followed suit.  I don't have hope that its going to get better.

[J----av]

No, he should be playing it coy like GRRM has been for years.  Since the author has strung us along - go with it.  Don't take our hope away from us - that's how you make people walk away and not come back.

 LOL yeah i bet ratings are way down next year

[Shanna Marie]

If he does have inside info i would be PISSED if i was GRRM

Alas, he said he's just guessing based on the same info the rest of us have. But he does know George pretty well, and I don't know if knowing his personality affects his guesses, even if he doesn't have inside info.

[benteen]

Oh, I don't think the 47 members of the Night's Watch aren't getting off easy.  Good luck trying to keep out the FIVE THOUSAND Wildlings you let in you stupid bastards.  Seriously, if you're going to betray your Lord Commander, at least do it BEFORE you let in 5,000 "enemies."  Which includes a FREAKIN GIANT.  Seriously, I hope they string up Thorne, that little shit Olly and the rest of the Night's Watch.  But keep Edd alive.

Edited June 15, 2015 by benteen

[Tim Thomason]

Two other observations:

 

I like how Tyene whispered her little sex comment to Bronn about two feet next to the Prince of Dorne. I know they needed them in the same shot, but they really should've spread them out more.

 

And the framing of Stannis' death followed immediately by Ramsey elsewhere, made me (for about a second) think that he rode in and interrupted Brienne's execution attempt. Apart of me wonders if Ramsey did find Stannis barely alive, would he squire him away somewhere in case of a rainy day (i.e. Lannister revolting against Boltons)? Perhaps even "Reekifying" Stannis a bit.

[MarquisDeCarabas]

Having him killed and stay dead IS subverting expectations. I hope he's dead dead. Or remains dead, since he appeared pretty dead to me with all that blood pouring out of him pooling on the snow. I loved Jon, but when you play the game of thrones (or Night's Watch commanding), you win, or you die. He doesn't get a pass from the harsh realities of consequences to his actions just because people wish it to be so. Not that I don't agree he was doing the right thing trying to help the Wildlings, but he was ignoring the context and the attitudes (and pain) of those he was commanding.  If heroes in this show can just have some magic thing happen and come back to life, why didn't that happen for Ned, or Rob, or Catelyn, or any of a dozen other characters? I sure hope Shireen isn't murdered in the book so Jon can live. That's all kinds of wrong -- even Jon wouldn't want that.

The thing is we've done that at least 3 times.  Bran (while not dead Martin's confirmed that he wanted people to think he's going to grow up to be the Hero then boom out the window)  Ned and Robb.  Keeping Jon dead at this point would be almost a cliche for Martin at this point.

 

A friend of mine who's good friends with and has worked with GRRM on some projects related to the book series has been tweeting little reminders about things in the past of the series, including a photo from the first episode when Jon's holding Ghost and the clip of Beric being revived. I don't know if he has inside info for what will happen in the books or not. But I am choosing to take hope here that he knows at least something.

 

Not all trope subversion is a good thing. Tropes became tropes because they work. Surprise and subversion only work if they lead to something even more satisfying than what you were expecting. Yeah, "Ha, fooled you, everyone dies!" subverts the tropes, but it doesn't make for a very good story.

 

I'm reminded of Joe Abercrombie's trilogy, the name of which escapes me.  I was so turned off by the ending I have no plans to read anything else that he's done.  If we've gone through all this only to have the white walkers kill everybody I'd be beyond done.

 

 I like that they didn't spoil what happens to Jon. GRRM wants to have TWOW out before season 6 so this gives him a chance to explain what happens to Jon without the show spoiling it. It would be a big middle finger to GRRM (more so then usual) to ruin what is probably the most anticipated thing in TWOW. ADWD didn't tell what will happen to Jon so i don't see why the show should before TWOW.

 

 Also that would be jamming way too much into an already crowded episode

 

 

I'm starting to the think GRRM made them promise not to reveal Jon's fate until Winds of Winter is released or at the very least as late into season 6 as they can.

[benteen]

The more I think about it, the more I liked the House of Faces scene.  It was like a Twilight Zone nightmare and Jaqen not really existing this season...

[Shanna Marie]

Good luck trying to keep out the FIVE THOUSAND Wildlings you let in you stupid bastards.  Seriously, if you're going to betray your Lord Commander, at least do it BEFORE you let in 5,000 "enemies."  Which includes a FREAKIN GIANT.

Who all owe their lives to Jon and who gained a lot of respect for him in that battle. So, yeah, poor strategic maneuver there. Without Jon, the Wildlings have no reason to be loyal to the Watch, and they'll now have seen quite vividly that there's no reason to respect them since loyalty means nothing to them. So those 47 men are going to be quite outnumbered if the Wildlings decide they want to take Castle Black and defend themselves against the horde of ice zombies. But Edd was also at the battle, so maybe they'll spare him, at least for comic relief purposes.

[MadMouse]

Book readers do not know he is alive, but resurrection is a much more common theme in the books with Thoros and Berric and Catelyn still kicking it. Jaime and Brienne, two major POV characters, also seem as though they may be resurrected or at least witness it . The entire Red God religion is much more detailed as are the prophesies that Jon seems to fit. Why focus on Rhaegar if not for Jon being of significance? If he dies and is done then a good fifth of the books is a shaggy dog story.

I never minded the crowd being nasty to Cersei. Cersei would burn them all to save face. She would feed the dogs before them to slight her daughter in law. She doesn't consider them to be like her. They may not know all the things she has done to harm them, but they do "know" her. She cannot hide her hateful nature.

 

 

The entire prologue to ADWD is a to guide on how Jon will survive and not end up like Beric and LSH. It basically warging for dummies. 

[Pete Martell]

Good lord, Dorne was a complete mess and they really wasted Alexander Siddig  Is there anything more you can do with Dorne after this?

 

Reveal that Garak was just seriously punking Bashir in the Holodeck one day.

[nksarmi]

 LOL yeah i bet ratings are way down next year

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious - but I'd say it's a real possibility if Jon really is dead.  I glimpse in the unsullied thread now and then and they were willing to give up when Shireen was burned.  This can't make that feeling better.

[Pete Martell]

Oh, I don't think the 47 members of the Night's Watch aren't getting off easy.  Good luck trying to keep out the FIVE THOUSAND Wildlings you let in you stupid bastards.  Seriously, if you're going to betray your Lord Commander, at least do it BEFORE you let in 5,000 "enemies."  Which includes a FREAKIN GIANT.  Seriously, I hope they string up Thorne, that little shit Olly and the rest of the Night's Watch.  But keep Edd alive.

 

The NW will just have Ramsay and his 20 men pop up to the Wall to kill all the Wildlings. 

 

I wouldn't be that surprised if season 6 opens with all of them living together looking bored and confused, no explanation given. That tradition and the show's bizarre ennui when it comes to the Wall will likely live on even if Jon doesn't.

[J----av]

What are you giving them credit for? That they didn't go through with a full on rape scene with child actresses? They're the ones who created the pedophilia backstory. Trant's a bad guy in the books but there's a difference between beating a girl because your king demands it and diddling kids. And they created  the scene basically because they think the audience are simpletons and need their hand held, "It's okay that Arya's killing this guy, he's a child molester." 

 

OR.... They made Trant a pedo because this scene was the show version of the "Mercy" chapter were Arya kills Raff the Sweetling, who is a pedophile

[FemmyV]

Oh and say, does anyone know where I can find a white dress & traveling cloak that will turn blue when coming into contact with dragon skin?

[benteen]

Reveal that Garak was just seriously punking Bashir in the Holodeck one day.

 

Heheh.  Well said, Pete.

The NW will just have Ramsay and his 20 men pop up to the Wall to kill all the Wildlings. 

 

I wouldn't be that surprised if season 6 opens with all of them living together looking bored and confused, no explanation given. That tradition and the show's bizarre ennui when it comes to the Wall will likely live on even if Jon doesn't.

 

They find Jon Snow's body and Thorne's like "I have no idea what happed to him.  I think he fell.  He was a bastard, you know?"

 

Ah, Super Ramsay just needs 20 good men and he can do anything!

[Happy Harpy]

What are you giving them credit for? That they didn't go through with a full on rape scene with child actresses? They're the ones who created the pedophilia backstory. Trant's a bad guy in the books but there's a difference between beating a girl because your king demands it and diddling kids. And they created  the scene basically because they think the audience are simpletons and need their hand held, "It's okay that Arya's killing this guy, he's a child molester." 

I give them credit because with what I saw onscreen, there's no pedophilia backstory. Last week's scene made people believe it, and everybody fell into the "trap" (Edit: including me, especially because of the Mercy chapter), but if I rely on what I saw this week, it wasn't.

Trant didn't even seem interested in getting the girls naked -and there were plenty of ways of implying that he had sex with them without showing anything, if the writers wanted. So I conclude that he was a sadist who got off beating little girls, not "diddling" them, which is a vibe he gave off imo since the beginning, when he was beating Sansa (I even mentioned it last week in a post, it isn't  something I discovered with this episode). I didn't feel that he merely obeyed his king. For me, the Hound did Joffrey's dirty work without remorse but without glee, whereas Trant enjoyed doing Joffrey's dirty work. Actually, there's even a parallel here between Trant and Joffrey now (who got off violence and not sex per se, it seems).

Were those scene there to remind the audience that Trant was a despicable piece of shit? Certainly. But I give D&D credit for using the history of their show and keeping it in character imo by not going for pedophilia.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Tippi]

Maybe Ramsay is the Prince who was Promised and Mel made a wrong turn and ended up at Dragonstone instead of Moat Cailin.  He's such a wonder that I'm sure he can take out the White Walkers without breaking a sweat.

 

Seriously, I am over this character and teh Boltons.  I can't believe he is still around to stink up season 6.

[nksarmi]

Ok one more bitch - what was the whole point of that scene between LF and Ollena if we were never going to see either of them again OR hear about what happened to Marg and Loras?  If they were just going to poison Mycella, they could have cut a few Dorne scenes and told me what happened with them!

[ulkis]

I never minded the crowd being nasty to Cersei. Cersei would burn them all to save face. She would feed the dogs before them to slight her daughter in law. She doesn't consider them to be like her. They may not know all the things she has done to harm them, but they do "know" her. She cannot hide her hateful nature.

Yeah. I feel bad for her, but she would have done the same as the crowd, imo.

I hate seeing Arya so brutal, although MW was great.

Edited June 15, 2015 by ulkis

[TwistedandBored]

Lena Headley was soo good doing the "Walk of Shame" that she actually made me feel for Cersei. The feeling ended as soon as I saw Zombie Mountain but Lena was just that amazing. I hope she wins an Emmy for it. 

 

 

Varys and Tyrion together agains makes me soo happy. 

 

Grey Worm is safe and looked really good.

 

Dany and Drogon had me laughing for a minute just because it seemed like Drogon was having none of it. He wanted to take his nap and no one was going to stop him. Also, LMAO on Danny thinking all she had to do was get on Drogon's back and he will fly. LOL

 

 

Obviously Jon is not dead. They wouldn't kill him that easy. 

[benteen]

Where the hell was Roose tonight?

[oliverwendell]

I'm disappointed that Thorne was in on the FTW knifing.  I really liked the shading they'd given him as the season went along -- he went from a dick who hated Jon simply for being a bastard and a member of the nobility to seemingly developing a grudging respect for him.  In that scene where Jon named him First Ranger instead of Head Latrine Digger the actor's expressions were brilliantly complex; I loved it.  Then he threw Slynt under the bus.  Then he let Jon back through the gate with the Wildlings.  Then he told him he had a big heart -- even though he thought it would bring disaster upon them.  I thought it would have been much more interesting to have him NOT be part of the mutiny, and in fact punish the mutineers, out of respect for protocol and the chain of command if nothing else.  But nope.  After all that interesting character development, he's just a dick in the end.  Boo.

[J----av]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious - but I'd say it's a real possibility if Jon really is dead.  I glimpse in the unsullied thread now and then and they were willing to give up when Shireen was burned.  This can't make that feeling better.

Its sarcasm. Everyone saying they will give up on the show will be right back next season. Ratings only went up after Ned died (and Ned was the closest thing the show ever had to a main character), Oberyn and The Red Wedding. Emotions are high right now, but when people calm down they will be ready for next season. Just like always. I bet anything episode 1 of season 6 sets the GOTs record

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, that should do it for the GoT I watch in this lifetime. I decided to see out the season, but the interest I have in watching showrunner fiction with no book material behind it is about as high as my enthusiasm for a Full House marathon.

 

• Lena Headey absolutely killed her walk. It was a lot of time spent on it in an episode that was positively starved for time, but it's nice to see the show give a scene more than 30 seconds before quick cutting away.
• Mountain is looking a little blue. I get what they were going for, but it looked silly.
• Wow did Dorne ever turn out to be the most incredible piece of shit from top to bottom. Everyone poo-poos the storyline in the book for being sluggish, but what the hell was that? This show has given us some truly, extravagantly bad scenes over the years, but never an entire season-long storyline that turned out to be a complete shaggy dog. I'd laugh, but it's more sad than funny. There's the specter of your season 6, folks. 
• The battle outside Winterfell and Sansa's flight were all absolutely decimated by the absence of the blizzard. Half the unsullied forum thinks she committed suicide because the snow drifts were so weenie. She's walking around a busy castle with people/guards everywhere, the only person who notices is that utter waste of screentime Myranda. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Best sequence from the books, absolute rubbish on the screen.
• Stannis in the middle of an infantry block that is completely surrounded by cavalry (and on the front lines, no less), transitioning into him staggering around in the trees (?) with almost everyone cleaned up and gone home (?). Hilariously nonsensical scene. Not quite as amazing as Jon walking the coastal rescue operation a thousand miles inland to Castle Black rather than sailing a half mile past the wall and landing on the other side, but close!
• Brienne even being there was stupid from the get-go, I have no patience to even critique her appearances. Another rambling story from the novels that was taken and made inexplicably, improbably worse.
• Nice to see the budget is there to show something actually resembling a Khalasar, now. Drogon probably should've made an appearance before they cut away, but eh. Show was low on time.
• Arya Good: The revelation that there is no "A Man". A man is no one. Arya Bad: The hilariously gratuitous murder of Meryn Trant, who had an extra handful of "kick the dog" scenes to make sure the audience could identify the bad guy.
• After dropping anvils all season long, Olly finally got to stab Jon Snow. As has already been pointed out, the baffling exclusion of the Pink Letter makes the timing of the assassination completely senseless. It also renders the "eviling up" of Ramsay all season long pointless, and Sansa's presence and subsequent escape from Winterfell pretty pointless too. But hey, it's D&D's Game of Thrones. It's nothing if not completely fucking pointless.
• The idea of another season lost piddling around in Meereen is so delightful I almost enjoyed those godawful scenes with Tyrion, Daario, et al. The idea of Daario leaving Tyrion in charge is so off-the-reservation stupid it's borderline sitcom material. Why not this Dwarf? He's quick with a quip and he's been here about 24 hours! Amazing. Truly amazing.

 

AFFC and ADWD are flawed books, there is no question. Some will blame the weak material for the absolute horror show that was season 5 of Game of Thrones, but if they'd stuck to what was on the page it would have been measurably better. They deviated, almost entirely without purpose, and without exception their deviations were terrible. I don't know what I expected from the showrunners that brought us such creative pearls as Talissa the Anachronism or Karl The Fookin' Legend Tanner, but I guess I thought they were capable of delivering marginally competent television. I was wrong!

[InsertWordHere]

Oh, I don't think the 47 members of the Night's Watch aren't getting off easy.  Good luck trying to keep out the FIVE THOUSAND Wildlings you let in you stupid bastards.  Seriously, if you're going to betray your Lord Commander, at least do it BEFORE you let in 5,000 "enemies."  Which includes a FREAKIN GIANT.  Seriously, I hope they string up Thorne, that little shit Olly and the rest of the Night's Watch.  But keep Edd alive.

I'd say Edd for Lord Commander, but I wouldn't wish these assholes on him. They might try to make it three in a row. 

 

The entire prologue to ADWD is a to guide on how Jon will survive and not end up like Beric and LSH. It basically warging for dummies. 

Yeah, I really think it's going to be a combination of warging plus Red God resurrection. He won't lose his sense of self like Beric and Cat.

 

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious - but I'd say it's a real possibility if Jon really is dead.  I glimpse in the unsullied thread now and then and they were willing to give up when Shireen was burned.  This can't make that feeling better.

I really feel like a proper North Remembers plot would have lessened this feeling. If they couldn't be bothered to cast just Manderly and dress some extras up as Manderly soldiers or other non-speaking Northern lords, then they could have just given us the GreatJon again. 

[ulkis]

I think most people will be back for the premiere. But if it's confirmed (or "confirmed") that Jon is dead, that might cause a decent amount of viewers to pull away.

I think most people will be back for the finale. But if it's confirmed (or "confirmed") that Jon is dead, that might cause a decent amount of viewers to pull away.

Edited June 15, 2015 by ulkis

[Estelindis]

A lot happened in this episode, but the pacing felt very weird...  I think that's because it was nearly all discouraging stuff.  Or maybe it's because, even though there were tons of developments, they felt as much like setup for the future as events in themselves.  The episode as a whole was very cliffyhangery, unusually so for Game of Thrones.

 

Cersei's walk felt very true to the books.  I thought it was executed fairly perfectly.  Just like the scene earlier in the season with Arya choosing not to throw Needle into the sea, you can see the character's internal thoughts in her face.

 

I didn't feel much when Arya took her revenge on Meryn Trant.  However, the scene that followed in the House of Black and White was great.  I didn't anticipate "Jaqen" poisoning himself - and, when that happened, I didn't anticipate his face appearing on someone else. Ditto Arya's face then appearing on him. I didn't think one face could appear on more than one person.  Maybe it's a show/book difference?  Or maybe it was just done to achieve a certain shock effect, without thought for the wider repercussions?  Wouldn't be the first time.

 

I'm glad to see Sansa take some initiative and show courage to Myranda - and very glad to see Theon intervene and send Myranda to a timely end.  Will Theon and Sansa now converge with Brienne and Pod?  Can't see any other options.  Overall, I feel like some mistakes were made with Sansa's storyline this year.  It wasn't all bad, but there was far too much Sansa of previous seasons.  She should have been capable of much more by now.  

 

All the Meereen stuff seemed decent.  I miss show!Hizdahr's presence in that plot, but I'll take the current dream teams instead, quite happily.  Tyrion and Varys, with Grey Worm and Missandei, should be interesting.  (After all, Tyrion and Varys gave the show some of its funniest lines earlier this season.)  Ditto Jorah and Daario.  I am intrigued by where things will go with Dany too.  She didn't have many minutes today, but it all seemed fine.  

 

Jon's story has been truer to the books than I was expecting.  While he never finds out about his half-sister's presence in Winterfell, and thus doesn't add another reason for the Watch to be peeved, the plot was pulled back on-course.  Sam going to Oldtown, "For the Watch" - we are now roughly where we expected things to be.  If Jon is perma-dead, we still have some point-of-view characters at the Wall, but I have no idea what Davos or Melisandre would do there with Stannis being finished.

 

Stannis's story turned into a bit of a trainwreck.   Ramsay's victory was depressingly easy.  It's not that I wanted Stannis to win after what he did to Shireen, but the swiftness of his downfall after that was hugely anti=climactic.  And Selyse was disposed of almost as an afterthought.

 

I expected more from Dorne too.  No "Fire and Blood" speech?  Jaime's touching-turned-tragic moment with Myrcella gave Coster-Waldau some time to shine, but what's going to happen to Trystane?

 

Last but far from least, every time the show kills a character who's still alive in the books, I feel like the creators are saying that they know that character's plot thread will come to nothing.  And I find that really kills part of the hopeful experience of waiting for the next installment.  Stannis, Shireen, Myrcella: all removed from being candidates for the Iron Throne.  But there's no point trying to avoid the show...  Spoilers proliferate as soon as an episode is done.  I'm sad that it's reached the stage that the book experience from which the show grew is starting to suffer somewhat because of the show.

[Pete Martell]

Ok one more bitch - what was the whole point of that scene between LF and Ollena if we were never going to see either of them again OR hear about what happened to Marg and Loras?  If they were just going to poison Mycella, they could have cut a few Dorne scenes and told me what happened with them!

 

Witty banter, because overwritten one-liners help compensate for the two characters being shit-for-brains.

[Dev F]

Ugh, didn't enjoy this one much at all. I'm not a book purist by any means, and I totally understand the need to streamline GRRM's sometimes awkwardly complex ramblings about history and politics so as to focus on the personal stories of the main characters. But at a certain point you've cut away so much of the backstory that there's nothing undergirding the personal stories anymore. The characters are no longer responding in complex ways that reflect their history, their station, and so on; they're just being jerked around by random incident because the plot demands it.

 

I felt that happening all too often in this episode. So many of the larger complexities have been absolutely nuked: with Hizdahr gone, there's no one left to represent the old guard of Meereen, so our heroes are reduced to speaking in vague terms about a completely faceless threat. The conflict in the North is reduced to two tiny armies clashing for fifteen seconds so that a character from another storyline can wander by and put Stannis out of his misery to put a tidy capstone on her own arc for the season. Sansa's story goes from being about a girl trying to master political machinations and figuring out how to leverage a secret network of Stark loyalists, to being about her trying to convince a minor character to side with her again an even more minor character. It's just all become such small potatoes.

 

Now, I'm not saying I prefer the way the later books ended up going. They clearly erred in the opposite direction, widening in scope until the personal stories got utterly lost. But there's got to be a happy medium, and by the end this season had completely lost sight of it.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Dev F

[Potanical Pardon]

Eh. Lot's of interesting things, but I'm not shocked by Jon's death/stabbing. To me, the dude has plot-armor on, so between that and Melisandre being shown to just show up, I'm pretty sure he's going to be okay. Melisandre clearly lied about sacrificing Shireen for Stannis' battle with the Boltons, so doing it must have been for something else...which is maybe undoing Jon's death which she maaaaybe foresaw coming?

 

Don't feel sorry at all for Cersei. I guess no Margaery/Loras/Cersei great escape hijinx nor Kool-Aid Man Mountain busting through any walls. Boo. I really don't get why the High Sparrow just went along with letting her return to a position where she could/would retaliate. Figured that he'd want to maximize his chances of gaining power. 

 

Don't believe Stannis is dead, same as the Hound...no body. Also the edit to Ramsay swinging sword and chopping someone's head off tells me that Brienne probably didn't do it. No idea why she would let him live, but I get the vibe that she's not really into the revenge/judgy-judge thing any more from her experience with Jaime.

 

Tyrion...so awesome. I CANNOT WAIT for Cersei to find out that a dwarf is now the de-facto King of the Targaryen empire and put two and two together. It's pretty dumb of Dario and Jorah to just leave instead of wait for Danerys to return, but now that we know some Dothraki have her, I guess that coincidence just worked itself out. I can't believe that Jorah and Dario are somehow going to stumble across her randomly dropped ring and pick up the trail.

 

The idea of Dorne still sounds cool, but the show pretty much ruined any desire to return there. I don't get why they don't just turn the ship around; it's right there. I wonder how Tommen will die if that fortune teller was right about their "golden shrouds". Stupid Elaria. Doran has no reason not to kill her now - she just gave the Lannisters a hostage.

 

Damn. We're going to have Bran and the boring plot return next.

[J----av]

Well, that should do it for the GoT I watch in this lifetime. I decided to see out the season, but the interest I have in watching showrunner fiction with no book material behind it is about as high as my enthusiasm for a Full House marathon.

 

• Lena Headey absolutely killed her walk. It was a lot of time spent on it in an episode that was positively starved for time, but it's nice to see the show give a scene more than 30 seconds before quick cutting away.
• Mountain is looking a little blue. I get what they were going for, but it looked silly.
• Wow did Dorne ever turn out to be the most incredible piece of shit from top to bottom. Everyone poo-poos the storyline in the book for being sluggish, but what the hell was that? This show has given us some truly, extravagantly bad scenes over the years, but never an entire season-long storyline that turned out to be a complete shaggy dog. I'd laugh, but it's more sad than funny. There's the specter of your season 6, folks. 
• The battle outside Winterfell and Sansa's flight were all absolutely decimated by the absence of the blizzard. Half the unsullied forum thinks she committed suicide because the snow drifts were so weenie. She's walking around a busy castle with people/guards everywhere, the only person who notices is that utter waste of screentime Myranda. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Best sequence from the books, absolute rubbish on the screen.
• Stannis in the middle of an infantry block that is completely surrounded by cavalry (and on the front lines, no less), transitioning into him staggering around in the trees (?) with almost everyone cleaned up and gone home (?). Hilariously nonsensical scene. Not quite as amazing as Jon walking the coastal rescue operation a thousand miles inland to Castle Black rather than sailing a half mile past the wall and landing on the other side, but close!
• Brienne even being there was stupid from the get-go, I have no patience to even critique her appearances. Another rambling story from the novels that was taken and made inexplicably, improbably worse.
• Nice to see the budget is there to show something actually resembling a Khalasar, now. Drogon probably should've made an appearance before they cut away, but eh. Show was low on time.
• Arya Good: The revelation that there is no "A Man". A man is no one. Arya Bad: The hilariously gratuitous murder of Meryn Trant, who had an extra handful of "kick the dog" scenes to make sure the audience could identify the bad guy.
• After dropping anvils all season long, Olly finally got to stab Jon Snow. As has already been pointed out, the baffling exclusion of the Pink Letter makes the timing of the assassination completely senseless. It also renders the "eviling up" of Ramsay all season long pointless, and Sansa's presence and subsequent escape from Winterfell pretty pointless too. But hey, it's D&D's Game of Thrones. It's nothing if not completely fucking pointless.
• The idea of another season lost piddling around in Meereen is so delightful I almost enjoyed those godawful scenes with Tyrion, Daario, et al. The idea of Daario leaving Tyrion in charge is so off-the-reservation stupid it's borderline sitcom material. Why not this Dwarf? He's quick with a quip and he's been here about 24 hours! Amazing. Truly amazing.

 

AFFC and ADWD are flawed books, there is no question. Some will blame the weak material for the absolute horror show that was season 5 of Game of Thrones, but if they'd stuck to what was on the page it would have been measurably better. They deviated, almost entirely without purpose, and without exception their deviations were terrible. I don't know what I expected from the showrunners that brought us such creative pearls as Talissa the Anachronism or Karl The Fookin' Legend Tanner, but I guess I thought they were capable of delivering marginally competent television. I was wrong!

 

 If they stuck to what was on the page they would have needed another 15 - 20 episodes

[nksarmi]

Its sarcasm. Everyone saying they will give up on the show will be right back next season. Ratings only went up after Ned died (and Ned was the closest thing the show ever had to a main character), Oberyn and The Red Wedding. Emotions are high right now, but when people calm down they will be ready for next season. Just like always. I bet anything episode 1 of season 6 sets the GOTs record

I'm not so sure - I mean maybe episode one, but if episode one isn't amazing - I'm not so sure.  I think the difference between now and before is that this season is not as good as past ones and things are more depressing than ever before.  And of course, the most important thing is that they are off book.

 

In my opinion, the books have been dropping in quality and I don't have much hope for book six.  Furthermore, the more characters you kill, the easier it is for fans to leave the show so Jon might be big enough to drive people away.

 

Finally, after defending the show runners all season, I have to admit, Sansa's story was bad, they dropped things in weird spots like LF and Olenna' conversation, and Dorne was pointless.  Why would people keep coming back?  Rating always dip as shows go on an GoT is set to go down not up in my opinion.  But I could be wrong -  was all season as I kept expecting things to get good!

[BloatedGuppy]

 If they stuck to what was on the page they would have needed another 15 - 20 episodes

 

No, they really wouldn't have. Seasons 1-3 remained quite loyal to the material, and Storm of Swords is as long as either AFFC or ADWD, and significantly more plot dense. Given how much of those books is spent untangling "The Meereenese Knot" and moving characters from point A to point B, the show was uniquely well positioned to filter out the dross and get to the meat of what remained. Instead they kept the dross and added great heapings of their own, substantially worse dross.

[Andromeda]

The thing is we've done that at least 3 times.  Bran (while not dead Martin's confirmed that he wanted people to think he's going to grow up to be the Hero then boom out the window)  Ned and Robb.  Keeping Jon dead at this point would be almost a cliche for Martin at this point.

That's true. But I'm thinking not just of the expectation that the hero will prevail, but that a prophesied chosen hero will prevail. By the number of people who can't accept he might just be dead (like any other character who got stabbed a half-dozen times with no one around to aid them would be), subverting the trope in this case is not letting this one character be conferred "specialness" because of prophecy. He lives or dies by his own actions and their repercussions in an unforgiving world. 

 

And yes, it's a nihilistic view of the world, and not very fantasy-ish, but I wouldn't put it past GRR.

[J----av]

No, they really wouldn't have. Seasons 1-3 remained quite loyal to the material, and Storm of Swords is as long as either AFFC or ADWD, and significantly more plot dense. Given how much of those books is spent untangling "The Meereenese Knot" and moving characters from point A to point B, the show was uniquely well positioned to filter out the dross and get to the meat of what remained. Instead they kept the dross and added great heapings of their own, substantially worse dross.

 Seasons/books 1-3 didn't have nearly as many plots, locations or characters as AFFC or ADWD (which were combined into one season giving even less time). GRRM keeps adding more and more characters and locations (something i hate that he is doing in the books) so the show keeps having to combine stories and cut characters

Edited June 15, 2015 by J----av

[jeansheridan]

Dillane killed it as Stannis. His resigned look when that calvary came out. His look of irritation when that guy stabbed his hamstring. And his "Do your duty."

And I am kind of happy that Tyrion got a happy season ending.

Oh and that Bronn and Brienne are still alive. And Pod.

I would have ended the season with a shot of Bran. Something hopeful.

[Ambrosefolly]

I think D&D are very good at adapting books, but I think a lot of critics have overpraised them vs GRRM. Once GRRM started losing the story, I knew that sooner or later D&D would too. While I liked some changes, like Arya forming a familial bond with Hot Pie and Gendry, and Gendry being less of a jerk, there is a lot of shit where they dropped the ball.

I would have ended the season with a shot of Bran. Something hopeful.

I miss Bran and the Reed kids. I found Meera completely charming. Edited June 15, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[Happy Harpy]

Jon Snow is dead, long live Jon Targaryen!

 

It's my story and I'm sticking to it, and I'll enjoy my cruise on the Nile until next season's first leakage.

 

I would have ended the season with a shot of Bran. Something hopeful.

I loved the last shot last year, with Arya on the boat. Freedom and serenity, that was soothing.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[ulkis]

It annoyed me how all the Night's Watch men just walked away. They're just gonna leave his body there? Stab him if you must but Olly, who was torn about it, at least, should have at least moved his body somewhere. Unless it was all a plot point so Melisandre could pop up unawares right afterwards.

[Kbilly]

Well I feel like I just got it in the gut, Knights Watch style. As Jon's blood is soaking the snow all I could think of is "Poor Ghost." 

 

I don't understand why they wouldn't show Stannis' death when I got to see a dude's eyes stabbed out and a woman's naked body for like ten minutes. Shame! And the Battle Of Winterfell was like fast forwarded.

 

Mel's fire really...backfired.

 

What is the pink letter?

 

Why does Grey Worm talk like "Me Tarzan, You Missandei?"

 

That bugged me too! 

[ulkis]

Jon Snow is dead, long live Jon Targaryen!

It's my story and I'm sticking to it, and I'll enjoy my cruise on the Nile until next season's first leakage.

I am totally with you, although I prefer Jon Stark. I don't care much about Jon's (possible) Targ side. Edited June 15, 2015 by ulkis