MV007 August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 Eh. To me, that's the equivalent of saying a black person can't use the "race card" if they say they feel alone as the only black person in the house. Vanessa is the only gay person in the house, and that does separate her from the other HGs in a certain way. So, it's kind of her own personal thing if she feels separated in that aspect. Except in this context, her sexuality never comes up until she brings it up. There has been no separation. She just throws it out there when she wants to garner sympathy. 7 Link to comment
Ceeg August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 (edited) I don't think sexuality has to come up in order to feel separated from the rest of straight society. Even people in the closet and hiding can feel that way. I don't think Vanessa's sexuality is the only way she feels different from people, but speaking as someone who understands what it's like, I think it's certainly possible that in addition to being unable to connect with people in the house on a social level, Vanessa could also feel separate from them due to her sexuality as well. It's not "I'm gay and therefore I'm alone here". It's more "these people are all social and have fun with each other, and no one understands me and I only connect with Steve who's also different, and I'm also gay and that's yet more thing added onto all the ways I don't identify with these people". Usually, when criticizing or speaking about gay issues, I personally think it's best to use the same wording one would use for racial issues as well. And I'm not sure it would be acceptable for someone to criticize Day for playing a "race card" if she ever said she felt alone in the house in part due to her race. As always, JMO. Edited August 31, 2015 by Ceeg 14 Link to comment
blixie August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 (edited) Being gay impacts every part of a persons life because it's their identity, and they have very good reason to suspect they are being "isolated" or disadvantaged because of it, case in point she couldn't finger bang her way to F2 with Liz or Julia, every straight person in the house had the benefit of pursing that as strategy, Vanessa does not and it's currently fucking up her game because two of her allies are blood related and two of them are showmantically/sexually hooked up and because she's actually NOT an asshole who would betray her girlfriend like that on national television. Edited August 31, 2015 by blixie 11 Link to comment
Laika August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 (edited) Lord, Meg really is stuck on this idea of Vanessa trying to get James as her #2. I think that's the only reason she's upset, because she feels replaced. ETA: I will say, though, that the prospect of a Steve/John/James/Vanessa Exterminators-esque alliance sounds really good. Yep this is why I can't with Meg. She is selfishly insisting that James should not work with Vanessa and if he does she will be so mad at him. If he is such a dear friend, then she should at least have the decency to tell him to do whatever it takes to win, even if it means aligning with the evil Vanessa. I get her feelings are hurt, but damn. Edited August 31, 2015 by Laika 11 Link to comment
Cutty August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 (edited) Right but Vanessa isn't alone. She's been a part of every dominant alliance of the season. The implication that she's been an outcast is ludicrous. Her constantly playing the gay card doesn't sit well with me. She used it against Audrey - saying she didn't want to put her up because she's part of the LGBT community (which was a bullshit excuse to target Jeff) then later claimed Audrey manipulated her because she was a lesbian. I'm sorry but she doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me. She's using it as part of her strategy which is kinda gross. Edited August 31, 2015 by Cutty 10 Link to comment
Hanahope August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 So assuming Austin/Liz vote to evict Meg and James votes to evict Julie, the only unknown votes are Johnny Mac and Steve. Will they take out part of a couple or part of a three-some? Link to comment
MV007 August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 Being gay impacts every part of a persons life because it's their identity, and they have very good reason to suspect they are being "isolated" or disadvantaged because of it, case in point she couldn't finger bang her way to F2 with Liz or Julia, every straight person in the house had the benefit of pursing that as strategy, Vanessa does not and it's currently fucking up her game because two of her allies are blood related and two of them are showmantically/sexually hooked up and because she's actually NOT an asshole who would betray her girlfriend like that on national television. If your point is that Liz can use a showmance to further herself in the game then I'm not really sure why Vanessa couldn't either. The implication here seems to be that Liz is using Austin to further herself and that she's not actually attracted to him. If every straight person has that option then Vanessa would as well. She can choose to attempt to use someone like that if she wanted. 1 Link to comment
Ceeg August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 Even if you ignore that Vanessa is in a long-term relationship, the fact that there are no lesbian or bisexual girls in the house prevents Vanessa from pursuing any sort of showmance option. If you're suggesting that she lie to everyone, tell them she's straight, and also tell them she's single, simply to pursue a potential and completely fake showmance to secure an alliance, then I think that would be even more frowned upon than Vanessa "playing the gay card" to emphasize how isolated she feels. The fact is that Vanessa is the only person in the house in a long-term relationship. She's the only one in the house who's gay. She is currently looking right in the face of one legit showmance (Austin and Liz) and one flirtmance (James pursuing Meg), in addition to also third-wheeling with another showmance (Shelli and Clay) for half the game. But, because of both her sexuality and her relationship status, Vanessa would have and could have never had those same opportunities in the house, so that's one strategy or benefit that was never possible for her. Those things alone could certainly make her feel isolated, in addition to the other social problems she has with not being able to connect with some of the other HGs. 9 Link to comment
kellog010 August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 In my opinion, as tempting as it may be to get rid of Julia, they need to vote out Meg. Otherwise, every week someone will be put on the block next to her and people will say "OMG, evict xxxx don't waste an HOH on Meg!" then you blink and she's F2. After Meg is gone, then they can all go to war with Austwins. Even James is going to have to realize striking anyone else first is foolish (Meg being out of his ear should give him clarity). They don't even all have to team up, it can just be a non-spoken understanding between all the non-Austwin houseguests. 4 Link to comment
peachmangosteen August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 Yes, that would be the perfect jury question. "Vanessa, what Reasons™ can you give me that will Incentivize™ me to vote for you?" I wish someone would do this, but no one is really clever enough. Her constantly playing the gay card doesn't sit well with me. She used it against Audrey - saying she didn't want to put her up because she's part of the LGBT community (which was a bullshit excuse to target Jeff) then later claimed Audrey manipulated her because she was a lesbian. I'm sorry but she doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me. She's using it as part of her strategy which is kinda gross. This. The fact that she's done this multiple times in clear attempts to manipulate whoever she's saying it too I'm not gonna give her the benefit of the doubt. It's gross and I don't respect it. And I wouldn't begrudge the jury if they don't either and therefore they don't vote for her. 4 Link to comment
Ceeg August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 Vanessa just told John that she'll do what she has to do (in re: breaking up the Austwins). I have no clue if she's bullshitting him, but if not PLEASE DO IT! Just for my entertainment. I know it will fuck over her jury votes, but they're already fucked over anyway. 3 Link to comment
ByaNose August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 So, Meg is getting evicted over Julia, right? I was thinking that John, Steve & James could pull a fast one and vote for Julia. Then it would be Austin & Liz for Julia. No tie. Sounds like a plan to me. LOL!!! Never gonna happen but I can dream, can't I? Link to comment
Ceeg August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 John just told Vanessa he wants a final 2 with her. I think I can hear peachmangosteen screaming somewhere in the distance. 6 Link to comment
Brian Cronin August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 Vanessa just told John that she'll do what she has to do (in re: breaking up the Austwins). I have no clue if she's bullshitting him, but if not PLEASE DO IT! Just for my entertainment. I know it will fuck over her jury votes, but they're already fucked over anyway. She'll do what she has to do in this instance just means "I'll let you guys do it for me." :) 1 Link to comment
Nashville August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 (edited) John just told Vanessa he wants a final 2 with her. I think I can hear peachmangosteen screaming somewhere in the distance. Who else's game is John going to respect more than V's? And truthfully, I thought John's JVS alliance suggestion (John/Vanessa/Steve in a hardcore F3, with each pursuing separate disposable pair alliances - John/James, Vanessa/Austin, and Steve/Julia - at arm's length from the core) to be pretty good strategy. Edited August 31, 2015 by Nashville 7 Link to comment
Brian Cronin August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 There's very little John could come up with now that would be a bad idea, really, since he is in such a bad position overall. He's up and out if anyone but Steve or James wins HoH next. 1 Link to comment
JediDVguy August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 (edited) Eagerly look forward to idiot-ass Vanessa making it to the final four with the Austwins, finding herself nominated, then getting shut out in the veto competition, leaving her with zero chance of moving forward in the game. She's clearly never seen BB12. Edited August 31, 2015 by JediDVguy 1 Link to comment
TimWil August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 (edited) I shall continue to live in hope that the Final 3 will be The VaJayJays (Vanessa, James and John). Edited August 31, 2015 by TimWil 13 Link to comment
Nashville August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 There's very little John could come up with now that would be a bad idea, really, since he is in such a bad position overall. He's up and out if anyone but Steve or James wins HoH next. Yes, but James/John/Steve - that's half the House competing in the next HoH comp. Better than half, really, if you take Julia into consideration. :) 2 Link to comment
Cutty August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 (edited) John's best chance to win is against Julia. He can't beat anyone else, but he doesn't have a relationship with her. Only chance of that happening would be if he's in F3 with her and Vanessa, wins the final HOH and takes Julia to F2. I'm not a fan of his game but part of me is rooting for John to get to F2 so James can win AFP. John just had a convo with Vanessa in the HOH. She asked him what would happen if Austin won veto and saved Liz. He said then you put up James and vote out Julia. LOL. Good luck with that, dummy. Vanessa wouldn't vote out Julia. She doesn't want that blood on her hands. Edited August 31, 2015 by Cutty Link to comment
Silo August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 It cracks me up that Vanessa has one set of rules for herself and another for everyone else. I've notice that, often when she talks game with others, she wears her sunglasses, yet she made James take his off when they had their latest conversation and complained to her minions about him having the audacity to wear them. She takes offense at anyone else questioning her motives or integrity, yet she not only questions everyone else and expects them to explain themselves to her, but she browbeats them and belittles those she feels are weak. She mocks Meg for crying, while she is the one who cries constantly about how hurt she is when the others don't bow down to her. She is so un-self aware that she actually believes that she doesn't hold grudges, gets over things quickly, doesn't put anyone else down and is kind, fair and has the most integrity of anyone in the house. Sadly, she has them all believing her bullshit and apologizing for having the nerve to want her out of the game. She's good, that Vanessa is! I 100% agree with you and made a WTF post about this very thing a few days ago. The rest of the HG's inability to think for themselves and not be such sheep is how Vanessa will win or come very close. It's mind-boggling! 2 Link to comment
Silo August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 What did Vanessa say to convince the Austwins to put up Julia instead of Steve or JMac? Link to comment
Lady Calypso August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 Yes, that would be the perfect jury question. "Vanessa, what Reasons™ can you give me that will Incentivize™ me to vote for you?" What's funny is that this is exactly what Vanessa is trying to do, and has been since early on. It's why she needs reasons to put people up, and why she needs reasons for so many of her decisions. It's odd, we may not get it, but I see her trying to give reasons for why she deserves to win. I think it's a way to have a proper and well thought out speech as to why she should win, as well as trying to get as few people angry at her as possible. I remember GinaMarie in season 15 who couldn't form a coherent sentence as to why she deserved to win, but Vanessa, if she can get to final 2 and if the jury isn't bitter, can give actual solid reasons to win. She's been thinking about the finals since the early weeks. Remember her wanting to pick a fight with Jeff so she could have a reason to put him up? Sure, saying 'you were a threat and I needed you out' is a perfectly valid reason, but Vanessa is trying to find an alternate way that gets less people pissed off. And...it's not a bad strategy, actually. It's not handled well, but it's not a bad strategy to want reasons to put people up so it can help her if she gets to final 2. Right but Vanessa isn't alone. She's been a part of every dominant alliance of the season. The implication that she's been an outcast is ludicrous. Her constantly playing the gay card doesn't sit well with me. She used it against Audrey - saying she didn't want to put her up because she's part of the LGBT community (which was a bullshit excuse to target Jeff) then later claimed Audrey manipulated her because she was a lesbian. I'm sorry but she doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me. She's using it as part of her strategy which is kinda gross. She definitely isn't isolated, though nobody besides Steve, John and, for a time Becky, have been. Everyone's had some alliances. Like, Jeff has had Jackie and the Summer Camp gang, Da'Vonne had her alliances, and Vanessa has always has Shelli/Clay/twins/Austin. But I do think I get what she actually means, or is trying to imply. Everyone has had their close ally throughout the game. Shelli had Clay, Liz has Austin and Julia, James has had Meg (who has had Jason), Jackie has had James/Meg, hell now even Steve has John, who had Becky. But Vanessa's kind of been the one person who hasn't had that ally who would fall on the sword for her, so to speak. She has Steve, but that fight they had last week probably made her think she had nobody (plus, both have been throwing each other UTB, which isn't the worst thing, but it doesn't happen for someone who is closest to you). Vanessa doesn't really have anyone she can truly trust and I think that's what makes her feel like an outsider. And it makes sense; she's similar to Audrey, who had nobody she could trust to help save her. So, Vanessa has had to fight tooth and nail to get to where she is. She hasn't had the chance to sit back and let someone else save her Big Brother life, not like Shelli/Clay, not like Liz/Austin/Julia, and not like James/Meg. I think that's what hurts her the most. She definitely is using it as a strategy, and it's not one I would ever use. But I'm not quite LGBT, so I don't know what she's gone through as a lesbian, and especially as a lesbian who has been married to a man. I think she has her reasons for throwing that out there and like if Da'Vonne had thrown the "race card", I don't know what she's been through to determine that. Is it right? No, not really. But I don't feel like I can persecute her for doing it. And, she hasn't done it much. It's not like every time she has a game-related conversation, she has to state that she's a lesbian. I think she's only done it a handful of times. If your point is that Liz can use a showmance to further herself in the game then I'm not really sure why Vanessa couldn't either. The implication here seems to be that Liz is using Austin to further herself and that she's not actually attracted to him. If every straight person has that option then Vanessa would as well. She can choose to attempt to use someone like that if she wanted. But the thing is, she can't do this. It would be wrong, first of all. The LGBT community would be up in arms and for good reason. Vanessa would also be compromising her own identity by doing this. Plus, she is in a relationship; she's not Austin, who has no trouble throwing away his integrity to date some girl he met two months ago and will probably never see again in a year from now. What happens in the game does affect these people in real life. Liz is going to find this out soon and I'm willing to bet she'll regret every choice she has made regarding Austin. I think it's harder when the show only accepts a certain number of LGBT houseguests per season (usually one or two, and I don't think both have been of the same sex). She can't very well start flirting with Julia to further her game, because Julia, as far as we know, is straight. 6 Link to comment
loki567 August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 I 100% agree with you and made a WTF post about this very thing a few days ago. The rest of the HG's inability to think for themselves and not be such sheep is how Vanessa will win or come very close. It's mind-boggling! I wouldn't throw the word "sheep," at them, they all had a reason to keep Vanessa up to this point in the game. Austin and the Twins used her a shield. John and Steve need her as a number. James voted to save her at one point, but that's because the alternative (Shelli) had a vendetta against him. 3 Link to comment
blixie August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 She asked him what would happen if Austin won veto and saved Liz. So this was in the context of nomming Liz/Julia? Or this is an assumption about dumbass Austin following on his sword for Liz? Ugh this is why she needed to be BD this week. Link to comment
Lady Calypso August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 So, Julia's the replacement nom. I wanted to move my other reply to over here. James used veto on self. Julie named as replacement nominee. 3 Link to comment
Silo August 31, 2015 Share August 31, 2015 I wouldn't throw the word "sheep," at them, they all had a reason to keep Vanessa up to this point in the game. Austin and the Twins used her a shield. John and Steve need her as a number. James voted to save her at one point, but that's because the alternative (Shelli) had a vendetta against him. So are you saying these are the only reasons and Vanessa didn't manipulate anyone? Link to comment
Ceeg September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 (edited) Meg just told James that when she goes, he needs to try to pair up with Austin. MEG GO AWAY. And now James just told Meg if he wins HOH, he'll put up Steve and Vanessa. James and Meg are both lost causes, I give up and rescind any support I ever had for them. ETA: Meg also told James she'll be pissed if he takes Vanessa to the Final 2. And James thinks it'd be awesome if he and Austin team up to take everyone out. Jesus. Edited September 1, 2015 by Ceeg 1 Link to comment
blixie September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 James, most people would let all of this go in one ear and out the other, that's what many of us do with our Grandma's and this Grandma more than most needs to hear herself prattle without being actually paid attention to. I hope John can make him see the sense of going after Liztin, once his cancerous appendage of dumb is cut off. 4 Link to comment
Ceeg September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 James, most people would let all of this go in one ear and out the other, that's what many of us do with our Grandma's and this Grandma more than most needs to hear herself prattle without being actually paid attention to. I hope John can make him see the sense of going after Liztin, once his cancerous appendage of dumb is cut off. The problem is that if James wins the DE HOH, JMac won't have time to get in his ear, and Vanessa will be up on the block with Steve, because it will be James' first instinct reaction. Steve and John were studying the days for a few minutes with Vanessa earlier. I hope the HOH is a days comp, and either Steve or John wins it. They're my only hope right now. 2 Link to comment
mooses September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 And James thinks it'd be awesome if he and Austin team up to take everyone out. Jesus. If we end up with a stupid brolliance at the end of this season, I can't. 5 Link to comment
blixie September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 The problem is that if James wins the DE HOH, JMac won't have time to get in his ear, and Vanessa will be up on the block with Steve, because it will be James' first instinct reaction. Well there are three more days to argue this logic with James, but yeah John and Steve have a propensity for staying pat, for fear of being caught out, but whatever BE AGGRESSIVE, in this one case, but like let James think it's his idea! Link to comment
Stinamaia September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 Being gay impacts every part of a persons life because it's their identity, and they have very good reason to suspect they are being "isolated" or disadvantaged because of it, case in point she couldn't finger bang her way to F2 with Liz or Julia, every straight person in the house had the benefit of pursing that as strategy, Vanessa does not and it's currently fucking up her game because two of her allies are blood related and two of them are showmantically/sexually hooked up and because she's actually NOT an asshole who would betray her girlfriend like that on national television. Oh she might have been able to finger bang Liz to an F2 if she had pursued Liz as relentlessly as Austin. Remember? Liz wasn't attracted to Austin either. 3 Link to comment
Deputy Deputy CoS September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 James is putting up Steve and Vanessa if he wins JMac is targeting the twins and Austin as an option. Yet JMac is the bad strategist. 7 Link to comment
Ceeg September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 (edited) Not only is putting Vanessa/Steve up a terrible idea because it fails to break up the Austwins, but it is also one of only two ways to keep Vanessa in the game. The past two weeks, the Austwins seem a lot closer to Vanessa than they do to Steve, and I think they want to get Steve out before he's able to Ian them. So James would not only not break up the threesome, but he also probably wouldn't even get his target evicted, assuming Steve doesn't win veto. Because Austin and the twins would hold majority vote. Seriously, as soon as Meg and James said his master plan should be to get closer to Austin and steamroll the house, he lost me. I won't be sad to see Austin or Liz win HOH Thursday and see James walk out right after Meg. The stupidity of those two astounds me. Edited September 1, 2015 by Ceeg 9 Link to comment
Deputy Deputy CoS September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 Why is it a surprise that he wants to be with Austwins? He's been with them for weeks. Since the week they derailed Becky's HOH. They were thrilled to the grills to rid of Becky since they were having so much fun with Austwins. I see people saying that JMac and Steve should vote out Julia but doing that doesn't benefit them in anyway and Liztin gain two for 1. Unless you literally pry them off Austwins, Meg and James are not budging. 2 Link to comment
SpringTulips September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 (edited) I think the rise and power of Austin and the twins can be fully blamed on Shelli and Clay. When the others were on to the twins, they formed an alliance to protect them, while focusing on Davonne and Jason. Edited September 1, 2015 by SpringTulips 5 Link to comment
Eolivet September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 Eagerly look forward to idiot-ass Vanessa making it to the final four with the Austwins, finding herself nominated, then getting shut out in the veto competition, leaving her with zero chance of moving forward in the game. She's clearly never seen BB12. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. Vanessa is fully aware of her situation, but the Brigade side pieces (sorry, that's essentially what the dudes made them) weren't. And despite having gone against each other in thought and word, Austin, Liz, Julia and Vanessa have never really gone against each other in deed. They've kept each other safe (I guess until this week, though Julia seems in little danger of going home) and maintained their alliance. The Brigade was all about let's point and laugh at the dumb women for not being the tiniest bit suspicious when all the other women started to disappear and nobody ever wondered why. I look at Vanessa's involvement in the Sixth Sense (minus 2) like she's playing chess: she's made her moves, lined up her pieces and now is just going to let the game play out. If anything, she's hyperaware of her situation -- something that you could never accuse the Brigade side pieces of being. I fault players plenty of times for being too stupid to see what's in front of them (like the Brigade and Derrick's zombies), but I don't think Vanessa is ignorant. As long as they continue to have the numbers, she's simply chosen her side. Plus, what are her other options? John and Steve have a tight bond, and James and his ex-summer campers hate her and I don't think would have ever worked with her in earnest. Austin, Liz and Julia may be the hill she's chosen to die on, but at least she's made that choice herself. 12 Link to comment
LoveLeigh September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 (edited) If these fools don't evict Julia on Thursday, they all deserve a Liz win. Nothing more need to be said as far as I am concerned. Even Austin should vote to evict Julia. It's his only chance to go to f2. Edited September 1, 2015 by DakotaLavender 1 Link to comment
JediDVguy September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 (edited) I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. Vanessa is fully aware of her situation, but the Brigade side pieces (sorry, that's essentially what the dudes made them) weren't.Vanessa has done nothing to indicate to me that she possesses any self-awareness at all. She reminds me Will Kirby insofar as her only strategy appears to be blustering in the diary room, taking credit for other people's moves in an effort to trick us into believing that she's a competent strategist. In reality, she's manic, she's delusional, and she's relying on dumb luck to get to the end.Austin, Liz and Julia may be the hill she's chosen to die on, but at least she's made that choice herself.She's only dying because she's choosing to die. In what alternate galaxy does it benefit her to preserve an alliance of three dominant players who will never, ever, ever allow her to make it past the final four? Failing to nominate Liz is up there with Marcellas refusing to use the veto on himself. Edited September 1, 2015 by JediDVguy 5 Link to comment
Granimal September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 I think that Vanessa had a chance to pursue a showmance if she needed to as part of her strategy. Vanessa was married to a man, and in her intro she said something to the effect of love is love and gender doesn't matter to her. So she could have pursued a relationship with a man had she wanted to. I think that Vanessa didn't pursue a showmance because she has integrity (a relationship back at home). Also, she probably wasn't attracted to any of the straight guys in the house. Or any of the girls. Remember Zankie? (Sorry for the bad memories.) 2 Link to comment
Eolivet September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 I believe if Vanessa had no self-awareness, she'd have not tried to make a side alliance with John and Steve. She knows she needs them because they are willing to nominate Austin, Liz and Julia -- something she can't (or has chosen not to) do. I have seen no evidence that she doesn't realize Austin, Liz and Julia are a threat -- only that she has no other options and she's "ride or die" with them while they have the numbers because they are loyal allies who have never actively turned on her, while she can't entirely trust the other three players in the house. It's the Devil You Know vs. the Devil You Don't. In what alternate galaxy does it benefit her to preserve an alliance of three dominant players who will never, ever, ever allow her to make it past the final four? In the alternate galaxy that the three remaining (minus Meg, now irrelevant) players have all been against her pretty much to her face at different points and would all vote her out whereas Austin, Liz and Julia have never actively made a move against her. Vanessa has no social game and she can't pretend to be everybody's friend due to her personality, but the idea that she's done nothing to save herself and it's all luck is ludicrous to me. How is it "lucky" that she was able to convince her alliance that it was OK to put up Julia when Liz and Julia (and Austin) were frothing at the mouth to put up John? Say she does put up Liz and Liz goes home? Now she has Austin, Julia and James (who just doesn't like her) gunning for her in the double eviction, so she has a 3/5 chance (or more, since John and Steve would vote to evict her if the other was on the block with her) that if she doesn't win veto, she follows Liz right out that door. I feel like the idea of "what is the best move to split up Austin, Liz and Julia" is getting confused with "what is the best move for Vanessa personally." They are mutually exclusive. I just choose not to rake Vanessa across the coals for looking out for #1. It's actually the complete opposite of Marcellus' move: it's self-preservation. 10 Link to comment
Deputy Deputy CoS September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 I want nothing more than for Austin and Liz to be evicted but what I want and what is good for the reminder's game does not go hand in hand. As long as there are others willing to break up the trio, and Vanessa is aware of it, it'll be game suicide for her to turn against them even at this point. She'll not only have broken her own shield, she'd have the other two, plus James and Meg who are aligned with them coming after her. Let's please assume Meg falls sideways into an HOH. Taking out Meg weakens Austwins, again a fact she's very aware off. As much as I dislike her personally, she didn't target Meg for shits and giggle. Only Meg thinks that and we know how accurate she's been this far. She's not targeting an ally or potential ally whilst protecting a foe. It is quite the opposit. Meg HATES Vanessa and would vote her out over a snake at this point. Julia on the other hand will target Austin before nominating Vanessa if she too fall ass backwards into an HOH. In a Vanessa vs Austin on the block scenario, she'll vote out Austin, Meg? There is also their jury votes to consider if she makes it to F2 by some miracle. 7 Link to comment
Laika September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 (edited) Vanessa is for sure the opposite of self-aware when it comes to her hypocrisy, self-righteousness and inability to read a room, no doubt. But she is not unaware about her position in the game. She knows she can't go to F4 with Austwins and she's subtly lining up Steve and JMac to take them out for her. Almost every single strategic conversation she has had with John and/or Steve this past week indicates as such. In reality, she's manic, she's delusional, and she's relying on dumb luck to get to the end. Vanessa has been a lot of things in this game, but lucky is not one of them. Even setting aside the times she's been able to avoid the block from skilled manipulation, I could never call someone with five comp wins under her belt as lucky (3 HOHs, 2 Vetos and only one of those wins being a crap shoot comp). Edited September 1, 2015 by Laika 13 Link to comment
Deputy Deputy CoS September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 Well she lucked out the week she was on the block. She was lucky it was against Shelli and no one else. 1 Link to comment
Laika September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 (edited) Well she lucked out the week she was on the block. She was lucky it was against Shelli and no one else. I'll concede that. She still had to put in some legwork with James and Meg to make sure it happened. And she also accomplished blowing up her nemesis' game that week too (Becky). Edited September 1, 2015 by Laika 5 Link to comment
mooses September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 (edited) Every HG needs some luck to move far in the game because it's not possible for everything to be in their control. But it's silly to say Vanessa's game is even the majority of luck. She's played well enough that she's been the biggest target for weeks, had multiple meltdowns, and she has managed to convince HGs, whether through intentional conversations or actions (like her conversation with Austin before the nomination ceremony), that it's too soon to get her out - because she's a Solo Dolo, she'll make a deal with you, she heard this and that from so and so... It's transparent, but she's still here. Who woulda thunk? Not me. And probably not the other HGs. I have no doubt she's thought far ahead, even realizing she has to clue in the others about the obvious threat of the Austwins (something we all thought they'd have as their priority by now, although it's hard because they've been unlucky enough to have the Austwins in power two weeks in a row. And she's been relying on players like Meg and James to get a clue). Vanessa and whoever her number two is from week to week (Austin recently, Shelli at one point) have been running The House. She's playing a good game, even if people don't like her. And Fan Favorite James is likeable (he's one of my favorites), but he's no master Big Brother player and clueless way too often even if he does manage to win. I hated Derrick, and he was lucky enough to be America's Player, but I have to admit he ran circles around the other HGs. None of these people are horrible humans, and I just have to remember to enjoy Big Brother for what it is - an opportunity to watch people behave ridiculously, lose their minds and do all it takes to win, and be so glad it's not me in there we're making fun of. Edited September 1, 2015 by mooses 12 Link to comment
mooses September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 Meg still saying this is some personal vendetta because it can't possibly be a game move. Except you have to get a player out every week, so why shouldn't Vanessa target someone who trashed her and has been targeting her a few weeks in a row? The number two of her original target? The person she talks game to the least? But that would require Meg to have some awareness of what's going on with the rest of the HGs, and of course she doesn't care because potball and chocolate wars! How dare someone make her leave Summer Camp early! I'd have more respect for their Fun Strategy if I thought it was actual strategy and not just laziness. They got close to the Austwins and still haven't figured out their relationship with Vanessa and Steve. Geezer. 9 Link to comment
lasandi September 1, 2015 Share September 1, 2015 This season, I have been sitting back and "watching" BB thru the eyes of you all, having watched maybe 2 actual episodes, and enjoying not being "personally" involved be cuz I had no favorites to win. Ahhhh, so stress free be cuz all of you rock! Then Mooses wrote this: Every HG needs some luck to move far in the game because it's not possible for everything to be in their control. But it's silly to say Vanessa's game is even the majority of luck. She's played well enough that she's been the biggest target for weeks, had multiple meltdowns, and she has managed to convince HGs, whether through intentional conversations or actions (like her conversation with Austin before the nomination ceremony), that it's too soon to get her out - because she's a Solo Dolo, she'll make a deal with you, she heard this and that from so and so... It's transparent, but she's still here. Who woulda thunk? Not me. And probably not the other HGs. I have no doubt she's thought far ahead, even realizing she has to clue in the others about the obvious threat of the Austwins (something we all thought they'd have as their priority by now, although it's hard because they've been unlucky enough to have the Austwins in power two weeks in a row. And she's been relying on players like Meg and James to get a clue). Vanessa and whoever her number two is from week to week (Austin recently, Shelli at one point) have been running The House. She's playing a good game, even if people don't like her. And Fan Favorite James is likeable (he's one of my favorites), but he's no master Big Brother player and clueless way too often even if he does manage to win. I hated Derrick, and he was lucky enough to be America's Player, but I have to admit he ran circles around the other HGs. None of these people are horrible humans, and I just have to remember to enjoy Big Brother for what it is - an opportunity to watch people behave ridiculously, lose their minds and do all it takes to win, and be so glad it's not me in there we're making fun of. I agree wholeheartedly with everything written above. But it was that last paragraph, that last sentence, "None of these people etc., etc., etc.", that pulled me all the way back in. Going forward, will be watching the episodes, checking out the feeds and whole heartedly pulling for my favorite, at this moment, Vanessa, for the win! 8 Link to comment
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