Race & Ethnicity On TV

[possibilities]

The angel on Kevin (Probably) is ALSO a sassy Black woman trope. Two tropes in one!

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

I Does anyone watch KEVIN (PROBABLY) SAVES THE WORLD? I don't mind the premise of the show, but I'm wondering if the 'angel' is just a magical Negro trope whose only purpose on the show  is to help Kevin fulfill his destiny.

31 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The angel on Kevin (Probably) is ALSO a sassy Black woman trope. Two tropes in one!

I was afraid of the Magical Negro as well (in fact I posted in the forum that's what it seemed like she was).  I think he has to help her as well.  And, yes, she was sassy at times, but also caring and sarcastic and,  thought, reasonably well-rounded.  I'm still cautious, because racism in America is pretty insidious, but I'm giving a it chance.

Edited October 10, 2017 by jhlipton

[topanga]

21 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I was afraid of the Magical Negro as well (in fact I posted in the forum that's what it seemed like she was).  I think he has to help her as well.  And, yes, she was sassy at times, but also caring and sarcastic and,  thought, reasonably well-rounded.  I'm still cautious, because racism in America is pretty insidious, but I'm giving a it chance.

That's good to know. Thanks. I think I'll give it a try.

[xaxat]

Megyn Kelly's Bad Ratings Are Tamron Hall's Revenge

Quote

Week two, however, was even worse for Megyn Kelly Today, according to New York Times TV writer John Koblin, with viewership down 24 percent compared to the same time slot a year ago. The decline was even sharper among the 25-54 year old “demo” that advertisers crave.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

[Dee]

Simply casting characters of color on a show, who do nothing, does not make a show "diverse."

[Dee]

Bomb Squad Drama Starring Morris Chestnut From Carol Mendelsohn Lands At Fox With Put Pilot Commitment

Quote

Written by former CSI maven Mendelsohn, The Long Walk is based on the upcoming novel The Bomb Maker by Thomas Perry. When a killer with a deadly vendetta sets a trap and blows up half of the LA Bomb Squad, private security expert and retired bomb tech Dick Stahl (Chestnut) reluctantly returns to the team he left behind. Intent to not let the squad’s remaining rookies go it alone, Stahl must confront his past head-on as he trains, recruits and rebuilds the best bomb squad in the country – all while working to catch the killer, and responding to the diverse calls of an elite Bomb Squad. This extended family is a group of real heroes, risking their lives to protect the city, their loved ones… and each other.

[Ohwell]

Well, at least Morris Chestnut is still getting work, although I wouldn't be surprised if this new venture gets canceled as well.  

[biakbiak]

Were they reallly the best bomb squad in the country if half of them were killed by a bomb?

[jhlipton]

18 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Were they reallly the best bomb squad in the country if half of them were killed by a bomb?

I can think of at least one way -- he sets a bomb in bar they frequent.  They wouldn't be expecting it, and wouldn't be taking protective measures.

[DollEyes]

On 9/30/2017 at 1:56 PM, Silver Raven said:

The executive producer of Hawaii 5-0 is shocked that his commitment to diversity is being questioned.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/hawaii-five-0-boss-shocked-cast-exits-led-023625822.html

Grace Park & Daniel Dae Kim might disagree. 

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, DollEyes said:

Grace Park & Daniel Dae Kim might disagree. 

Ya think?

[Sparger Springs]

On 10/14/2017 at 3:39 PM, Ohwell said:

Well, at least Morris Chestnut is still getting work, although I wouldn't be surprised if this new venture gets canceled as well.  

Hopefully is better than that nonsense he last starred in. I am a big fan of Morris and his abs. I couldn't stand that show. I only lasted a few episodes. The entire premise was moronic. Man on heart transfer list spends his days working out and doing some light crime fighting on the side. People with serious heart problems on transfer list can't behave that way.

[Ohwell]

8 minutes ago, Sparger Springs said:

Hopefully is better than that nonsense he last starred in. I am a big fan of Morris and his abs. I couldn't stand that show. I only lasted a few episodes. The entire premise was moronic. Man on heart transfer list spends his days working out and doing some light crime fighting on the side. People with serious heart problems on transfer list can't behave that way.

I know.  I only watched a couple episodes and I bailed.  Plus, the actress who played his mother is only six or seven years older than him in real life.  It was just stupid.

ETA:  Actually, it,s a nine year age difference but it was still ridiculous for Lorraine Toussaint to play his mother. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Ohwell

[Dee]

So it's perfectly fine to refer to dark skinned Black female characters as "hostile," with no factual basis, but no one is allowed to question that assertion? See, this is why fandom is toxic to fans of color.

[DearEvette]

On 9/22/2017 at 5:39 PM, Jaded said:

Fox Developing Drama Based on Book ‘Our Kind of People: Inside America’s Black Upper Class’

Sigh.  One the one hand, I am so glad this is happening.  This was a very good book and delves into a social-cultural area in the history of Af-Ams that a lot of people aren't aware of.  There is a class divide amongst black folks as stark as there is amongst whites.  I am sure that lot of people believe that the black wealthy all come from athletics or performing arts and are not aware that there also exists generations deep genteel wealth amongst blacks.  My father's family could be categorized that way. Also the woman writing is a WOC and her biggest writing credits are Justified and Life, both of which were really well written shows. 

On the other hand, this is Fox.  They have the tendency to really screw up great shows with lots of potential. 

[Dee]

It's to Fox's credit they're even taking a chance to produce the show, when no other network would touch it imo.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Dee

[DearEvette]

New show on SYFY called Superstition centers on a black family named the Hastings whose family business involves fighting witchcraft, occultism, end evil using arcane weapons and are supposed to be bad ass.  Stars Mario Van Peebles as the patriarch.  Looks like the pilot episode is on the SYFY on demand but the tv premiere is supposed to be Friday at 10:00 pm.  I haven't seen it yet, but sounds interesting enough to check it out.

[Dee]

Meet the Stars of HGTV's Most Highly Anticipated New Fall Show

[jhlipton]

On 10/17/2017 at 9:20 AM, DearEvette said:

New show on SYFY called Superstition centers on a black family named the Hastings

I'm definitely checking it out.  SyFy just hired one of the Black Girl Nerds so I'm hoping for good things.

On 10/17/2017 at 9:35 AM, Dee said:

Meet the Stars of HGTV's Most Highly Anticipated New Fall Show

Quote

Sounds like Chip and Joanna Gaines need to watch out — there's a new HGTV couple in town!

This was written before the Gaines' decided to drop their show.

[allyw]

On 10/17/2017 at 0:20 PM, DearEvette said:

New show on SYFY called Superstition centers on a black family named the Hastings whose family business involves fighting witchcraft, occultism, end evil using arcane weapons and are supposed to be bad ass.  Stars Mario Van Peebles as the patriarch.  Looks like the pilot episode is on the SYFY on demand but the tv premiere is supposed to be Friday at 10:00 pm.  I haven't seen it yet, but sounds interesting enough to check it out.

I'm going to check it out and I hope it's good as it's so freaking hard to find a sci-fi/genre show with a prominent black character much less as the lead.

[jhlipton]

15 hours ago, allyw said:

I'm going to check it out and I hope it's good as it's so freaking hard to find a sci-fi/genre show with a prominent black character much less as the lead.

The Expanse (Naomi) and Z Nation (Lt Warren), both on SyFy.

 

ETA: Legends of Tomorrow (Jax and Amaya) on Fox CW (plus, it looks like the "Villain of the Season" is a black woman).

Edited October 19, 2017 by jhlipton
Corrected network

[HunterHunted]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The Expanse (Naomi) and Z Nation (Lt Warren), both on SyFy.

 

ETA: Legends of Tomorrow (Jax and Amaya) on Fox (plus, it looks like the "Villain of the Season" is a black woman.

Legends of Tomorrow is on the CW and the villain appears to be Kuasa, who is related to Amaya and another ancillary character, Mari.

[jhlipton]

You're right -- I'll fix my post.

[allyw]

15 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The Expanse (Naomi) and Z Nation (Lt Warren), both on SyFy.

 

ETA: Legends of Tomorrow (Jax and Amaya) on Fox CW (plus, it looks like the "Villain of the Season" is a black woman).

Thanks, I've never seen The Expanse so I'll check that out. However, I watched the first few episodes of both Z Nation and LOT but didn't like either one; The acting was terrible for the former and I disliked most of the characters in the latter.

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, allyw said:

Thanks, I've never seen The Expanse so I'll check that out. However, I watched the first few episodes of both Z Nation and LOT but didn't like either one; The acting was terrible for the former and I disliked most of the characters in the latter.

Admittedly, the first season of LoT was terrible. The second season was much better. It introduces Amaya Jiwe, the first superhero to be called Vixen. The canon version of Vixen, Mari Jiwe McCabe, was first introduced in a CW Seed animated web series that Greg Berlanti hoped to use as a backdoor pilot. She was later introduced into the live action Flarrowverse. They wanted to spin her off into LoT, but there were scheduling conflicts with the actress. Instead, they created the character of Amaya for LoT. They have also made some alterations to all of the Vixen mythology that I think might stick and be adopted into the comics. 

Spoiler

The powers of Vixen are now matrilineal. Amaya is Mari's grandmother. Mari has a sister who is an occasional antagonist. Finally, there are other magical totems that grant people power over the elements.

They've definitely deepened the Vixen mythology and I really appreciate that. It looks like they'll exploring some of this Vixen mythology in season 3 of LoT.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, allyw said:

I watched the first few episodes of both Z Nation and LOT but didn't like either one; The acting was terrible for the former and I disliked most of the characters in the latter.

It may help to know that {a} Z Nation is from the same studio that brought us the Sharknado films, so you should take that into account; and {b} the acting has gotten much better, to the point that Kalita Smith (Lt Warren) is one of my favorite actresses.

 

25 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Admittedly, the first season of LoT was terrible. The second season was much better.

Yes and YASSSS!  The Hawk-People were terrible and Savage wasn't much better.  The "Evil Speedster and the Legion of Dooooom" was much better.

[DearEvette]

On 10/19/2017 at 3:13 PM, allyw said:

LOT but didn't like either one; The acting was terrible for the former and I disliked most of the characters in the latter.

Oooh, was it Season 1?  Season 1 was kinda bad.  It centered on the Hawks -- two of the most charisma free people ever on tv.  Also Vandal Savage was such a terrible villain. 

Go straight to S2.  Sooo much better.  It hit its stride, the big bads for the season are great.  And the show got a great sense of humor.

[jhlipton]

Anyone watch How to Get Away With Murder?  The latest episode passed the "Racial Bechdel Test" with flying colors:  4 (FOUR!!!) Women of Color working together to out-maneuver two white men -- their conversations were about the case, not the men.   Even though they didn't like each other, there was no "cattiness".  It was a joy to watch.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Anyone watch How to Get Away With Murder?  The latest episode passed the "Racial Bechdel Test" with flying colors:  4 (FOUR!!!) Women of Color working together to out-maneuver two white men -- their conversations were about the case, not the men.   Even though they didn't like each other, there was no "cattiness".  It was a joy to watch.

Yes it was definitely a joy. I felt the same sense of elation and amazement I felt when Luke Cage (the series) had a scene with four Black women in a professional setting. That was the last place I would've expected to see such a thing. (And the scene also passed the Bechdel tests but you have look beyond the dialogue to see what's really going on.) I'm kind of surprised Shonda let Netflix and Marvel beat her to the punch.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yes it was definitely a joy. I felt the same sense of elation and amazement I felt when Luke Cage (the series) had a scene with four Black women in a professional setting. That was the last place I would've expected to see such a thing. (And the scene also passed the Bechdel tests but you have look beyond the dialogue to see what's really going on.) I'm kind of surprised Shonda let Netflix and Marvel beat her to the punch.

That is an awesome article -- thanks for sharing.  Just as the 4 women in HTGAWM were talking about a man on the surface, so to the women on Luke Cage were talking about men on the surface, but so very much was going just under the surface.

And I loved the way she described Shades, who was my favorite character.

[Dee]

Empire often has, upwards of, four Black women in a professional setting in almost every episode.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Generally not in scenes together and IMO the Empire scenes between female characters rarely pass the Bechdel test. I think almost every female character on Empire primarily exists in service of at least one male character and their conversation usually reflects that.

Frankly, I don't think Lee Daniels understands or knows how to write Black female characters that aren't largely stereotypical. Empire is rife with Sapphire and Jezebel cliches, and whatever professionalism the female characters display is either secondary or in reaction to negative issues they're having with a man.

That said, I like Empire and still watch it because it's not pretending to be anything but an over-the-top soap opera.

[Dee]

Quote

Generally not in scenes together

Actually Empire usually has several Black women sharing several scenes together each episode.

Quote

and IMO the Empire scenes between female characters rarely pass the Bechdel test.

They more than often do. There's not much bedhopping between most of the women on Empire, so the majority of their interactions are centered around work, friendships and/or family.

Quote

Frankly, I don't think Lee Daniels understands or knows how to write Black female characters that aren't largely stereotypical.

Frankly, it's Pete Nowalk and Shonda Rhimes who don't know how to write Black female characters who aren't largely stereotypical.

Just because their characters work white collar jobs doesn't make them any less stereotypical.

And if we're discussing characters fitting Sapphire and Jezebel cliches, Miranda Bailey and Annalise Keating fit those particular tropes quite well JMHO.

Quote

whatever professionalism the female characters display is either secondary or in reaction to negative issues they're having with a man.

That's simply not true.

It's Shondaland dramas that make incestuous relationship drama the main focus of their show. The majority of their shows are so centered on incessant romantic pairings that any two actors can't share scenes together without fans immediately assuming their characters are about to be paired.

Empire has relationship issues, to put it mildly, but work and family is largely the central focus imo.

Quote

I think almost every female character on Empire primarily exists in service of at least one male character and their conversation usually reflects that.

They really don't. Empire's female characters have complex and significant relationships with the male characters on the show, but they're hardly 'in service' to them.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Dee

[jhlipton]

@Joimiaroxeu and @Dee, I think you're both right and both wrong.  Both HTGAWM and Empire have problematic (to say the least) scenes and relationships, and both portray women as strong and independent in their own right.  Michaela may be "paired" with Asher, but that's not the main point of her story.  And Becky isn't paired with anyone.   I'd say 80% or more of the conversations from both are about work, not their SO.  Annalise and Cookie are more towards the stereotypes, but both stand out, due mostly to the powerful performances from Davis and Henson.  Both's best scenes are when they're taking command of their work-place, which they do without falling into the "Sapphire" stereotype. 

JMHO...

[Joimiaroxeu]

12 hours ago, Dee said:

Actually Empire usually has several Black women sharing several scenes together each episode.

They more than often do. There's not much bedhopping between most of the women on Empire, so the majority of their interactions are centered around work, friendships and/or family.

Frankly, it's Pete Nowalk and Shonda Rhimes who don't know how to write Black female characters who aren't largely stereotypical.

Just because their characters work white collar jobs doesn't make them any less stereotypical.

And if we're discussing characters fitting Sapphire and Jezebel cliches, Miranda Bailey and Annalise Keating fit those particular tropes quite well JMHO.

That's simply not true.

It's Shondaland dramas that make incestuous relationship drama the main focus of their show. The majority of their shows are so centered on incessant romantic pairings that any two actors can't share scenes together without fans immediately assuming their characters are about to be paired.

Empire has relationship issues, to put it mildly, but work and family is largely the central focus imo.

They really don't. Empire's female characters have complex and significant relationships with the male characters on the show, but they're hardly 'in service' to them.

Agreeing to disagree almost completely. Opinions aren't necessarily facts.

[Dee]

39 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Opinions aren't necessarily facts.

This wasn't a case of opinions vs. facts.

This was about you asserting HTGAWM passed the Bechdel test while Empire supposedly didn't.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Dee

[ElectricBoogaloo]

16 actors of Asian descent are series regulars in new shows for the fall season

When Nikita ended the same season that Sandra Oh left Grey’s Anatomy (at that point, I think only Lucy Liu on Elementary, DDK and Grace Park on Hawaii Five-O, and Ming-Na Wen and Chloe Bennett on Agents of SHIELD were the only ones left), I was not optimistic about seeing Asian actors in lead roles (especially in roles that didn’t depend upon the characters being Asian). Now let’s see if any of these new shows are any good or last more than one season!

[Haleth]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

16 actors of Asian descent are series regulars in new shows for the fall season

When Nikita ended the same season that Sandra Oh left Grey’s Anatomy (at that point, I think only Lucy Liu on Elementary, DDK and Grace Park on Hawaii Five-O, and Ming-Na Wen and Chloe Bennett on Agents of SHIELD were the only ones left), I was not optimistic about seeing Asian actors in lead roles (especially in roles that didn’t depend upon the characters being Asian). Now let’s see if any of these new shows are any good or last more than one season!

The description for Ken Leung on Inhumans:

Quote

Marvel's Inhumans brings the fan-favorite comic book series to life. After the Royal Family of Inhumans is splintered by a military coup, they barely escape to Hawaii where they are greeted with surprising interactions with the lush world and humanity around them. Now they must find a way to reunite with each other and return to their home before their way of life is destroyed forever. Ken Leung plays Karnak, cousin and closest advisor to Black Bolt. His gift is an ability to see the fault in all things -- people, plans, structures, everything. He's Black Bolt's most ardent supporter and strategist and is often seen as the royal family's planner and philosopher.

Wow, who knew my MIL had a superpower?
 

[DearEvette]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

16 actors of Asian descent are series regulars in new shows for the fall season

When Nikita ended the same season that Sandra Oh left Grey’s Anatomy (at that point, I think only Lucy Liu on Elementary, DDK and Grace Park on Hawaii Five-O, and Ming-Na Wen and Chloe Bennett on Agents of SHIELD were the only ones left), I was not optimistic about seeing Asian actors in lead roles (especially in roles that didn’t depend upon the characters being Asian). Now let’s see if any of these new shows are any good or last more than one season!

I am hearing that 9JKL is really bad.  Which is too bad for Albert Tsai.  That kid has talent to burn but can't seem to find a show that sticks.  I thought it was a shame that Trophy Wife got cancelled just after one season.  It was a charming show and he was he was the breakout in it.

[Chaos Theory]

4 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I am hearing that 9JKL is really bad.  Which is too bad for Albert Tsai.  That kid has talent to burn but can't seem to find a show that sticks.  I thought it was a shame that Trophy Wife got cancelled just after one season.  It was a charming show and he was he was the breakout in it.

It is reallly bad but really popular.  Tv Guide if you believe TV Guide is calling it a hit.  I have no idea what people see in CBS comedies but....whatever.  I watched a bit of it and most of it were jokes about a mother and son “dating”.   You know ha ha.  You and mom make a cute couple.  Kinda thing.  But hey...the CBS crowd like it.

[paulvdb]

As I mentioned in another topic, I disagree with TV guide about 9JKL being a hit. It gets decent ratings compared to other shows, but it loses half of its lead in and that's not good. I expect ratings for 9JKL to drop when Big Bang Theory moves to Thursdays. I have heard mostly bad things about it.

[jhlipton]

Inhumans is not good (to put it mildly), but Ken Leung is one of the few decent things about it.  Eme Ikwuakor is the other. (Mike Moh was in it for two minutes so far.)

[Dee]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

16 actors of Asian descent are series regulars in new shows for the fall season

When Nikita ended the same season that Sandra Oh left Grey’s Anatomy (at that point, I think only Lucy Liu on Elementary, DDK and Grace Park on Hawaii Five-O, and Ming-Na Wen and Chloe Bennett on Agents of SHIELD were the only ones left), I was not optimistic about seeing Asian actors in lead roles (especially in roles that didn’t depend upon the characters being Asian). Now let’s see if any of these new shows are any good or last more than one season!

That's gotta be some sort of record, right?

[possibilities]

I wish there was even one show on that list that I wanted to actually watch.

[callie lee 29]

I watched 9JKL and it was alright, though unremarkable. A very easy show to pick up and put down.  The Gifted sounds interesting but also very similar  yo a lot of other shows right now. I'm wondering if the saturation of superhero film/tv will hurt it.

I'm gonna watch me the hell out of SWAT, primarily  (okay only) for Shemar Moore!!

[Silver Raven]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I am hearing that 9JKL is really bad.  Which is too bad for Albert Tsai.  That kid has talent to burn but can't seem to find a show that sticks.  I thought it was a shame that Trophy Wife got cancelled just after one season.  It was a charming show and he was he was the breakout in it.

I watched 5 minutes of the first episode and turned the channel.

[kassygreene]

8 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

I watched 5 minutes of the first episode and turned the channel.

I forced myself to watch the entire pilot before giving myself permission to "cancel" without watching the second episode.  I strongly suspected from the commercials that the parental characters would irritate the hell out of me, and they did.

[Silver Raven]

1 minute ago, kassygreene said:

I forced myself to watch the entire pilot before giving myself permission to "cancel" without watching the second episode.  I strongly suspected from the commercials that the parental characters would irritate the hell out of me, and they did.

I thought it was embarrassingly (and adolescent) sexual (and I am not a prude), especially for an 8:30 show.

[biakbiak]

They spelled Elliott Gould's name wrong in the opening credits! I mean. Seriously how is that possible on so many different levels?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I wish there was even one show on that list that I wanted to actually watch.

Same here. As much as I want to support and celebrate these actors for managing to get cast as series regulars (not just guest starring roles as lab techs and triad members), none of these shows sound interesting to me.