One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[Viqutorious]

Changing gears:

I get prickly when I hear fans discussing the show as if the main focus is on Luke, Lorelai, Rory and Dean/Jess/Logan.

This article in Vanity Fair is interesting.

Warning:May contain spoilers!

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/09/gilmore-girls-feminist-lauren-graham

This paragraph stood out for me.

Quote

Naturally, guys will always have their place in Gilmore Girls. It’s just important to remember that that place has never been the center. That spot has always been reserved for Lorelai and Rory.

Edited September 12, 2016 by CheeseBurgh

[marineg]

3 hours ago, CheeseBurgh said:

This article in Vanity Fair is interesting.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/09/gilmore-girls-feminist-lauren-graham

Great article! This one was fantastic too!

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/07/lorelai-gilmore-antihero

Edited September 10, 2016 by marineg

[Viqutorious]

I read that one awhile ago and forgot about it, I agree that is a great read! It should be in the 10 things I hate thread.

[Minneapple]

On September 10, 2016 at 2:01 PM, CheeseBurgh said:

Changing gears:

I get prickly when I hear fans discussing the show as if the main focus is on Luke, Lorelai, Rory and Dean/Jess/Logan.

This article in Vanity Fair is interesting.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/09/gilmore-girls-feminist-lauren-graham

Might want to warn for spoilers. 

[Viqutorious]

Quote

Might want to warn for spoilers

Thanks! I'm not sure how to use the spoiler thing though.

Edited September 12, 2016 by CheeseBurgh

[Minneapple]

On 9/11/2016 at 11:49 PM, CheeseBurgh said:

Thanks! I'm not sure how to use the spoiler thing though.

In the case of posting that particular article, all you had to do was add something like "warning, spoilers in the article." 

[Viqutorious]

I did add that after you pointed it out.

the show has been on the air forever, I don't know why spoilers are a big deal. This thread covers all 7 seasons.

Edited September 13, 2016 by CheeseBurgh

[andromeda331]

I'm not sure if this is the best place for it. But I really wished we knew what was the final straw for Lorelai that made her bolt with Rory. She talked a lot about how crappy it was for her to grow up in that house and other times how unhappy she was. But what was the final push? Was it a fight with Emily? Her parents overruling her parenting? Both? Neither? Was it something she was planning since she gave birth and was simply waiting until she turned eighteen? Or was it something she decided after Rory was born? If we're judging from Dear Richard and Emily, she left a note and left. Neither Richard or Emily realized Lorelai was gone until that moment.  How long had she been gone by that point?  Lorelai talks to Rory later in season six about receiving the invitation to the Christmas party the first time after she left and how she wonders if she had gone if things would be better between them. Did she not go because there was a big blow up and angry or she was trying to be independent and simply wanted them out of her life?   

[marineg]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not sure if this is the best place for it. But I really wished we knew what was the final straw for Lorelai that made her bolt with Rory. She talked a lot about how crappy it was for her to grow up in that house and other times how unhappy she was. But what was the final push? Was it a fight with Emily? Her parents overruling her parenting? Both? Neither? Was it something she was planning since she gave birth and was simply waiting until she turned eighteen? Or was it something she decided after Rory was born? If we're judging from Dear Richard and Emily, she left a note and left. Neither Richard or Emily realized Lorelai was gone until that moment.  How long had she been gone by that point?  Lorelai talks to Rory later in season six about receiving the invitation to the Christmas party the first time after she left and how she wonders if she had gone if things would be better between them. Did she not go because there was a big blow up and angry or she was trying to be independent and simply wanted them out of her life?   

Honestly, I've tried in the past to figure out this whole thing. I haven't yet. She left, and from "Dear Richard & Emily", it seems that it is a year after the birth. But in "The Ins and Outs of Inns", from what Mia says, it seems that Rory was just a baby (as in a few months old). That whole moment of their life is very confusing for me so if anyone has answers to this, please share!

Edited September 14, 2016 by marineg

[Lady Calypso]

12 hours ago, marineg said:

Honestly, I've tried in the past to figure out this whole thing. I haven't yet. She left, and from "Dear Richard & Emily", it seems that it is a year after the birth. But in "The Ins and Outs of Inns", from what Mia says, it seems that Rory was just a baby (as in a few months old). That whole moment of their life is very confusing for me so if anyone has answers to this, please share!

I just looked up the episode script, and the answer seems to be that Rory was about a year when Lorelai ran away and they had Mia overexaggerate the age (or they thought Lorelai had given birth at 17 instead of 16 before they changed that). As demonstrated in the flashback of Dear Emily and Richard: 

Quote

EMILY: Lorelai, we’re leaving! Well, what do you know? She finally put Rory’s stroller away. It’s the first time in a year I haven’t tripped over that thing.

I think Mia also mentioned that Lorelai was eighteen when she started working at the Inn, and Rory had to be about a year to a year and a half at that point. So my best guess is that Lorelai had plans to leave but she knew that she would just be dragged back if she was still a minor. Plus, the help with a new baby without Christopher probably was the best idea, as there's no way Lorelai could have taken care of a newborn by herself while working. At least with Rory being a year old, there's a little less dependence and Lorelai would have had a year's experience taking care of Rory while also being able to provide her with all of a baby's necessities. 

[Spartan Girl]

On September 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, RachelKM said:

 And WTF was with them getting to either approve of Chris or disapprove and see if he could fit in?  I happen to like Chris, but even if you didn't, he was Lorelai's husband at that point.  Not really up to them to put in their two cents on the relationship and it's just down right assholery to make him feel excluded and/or fail to accept him. 

Well to be fair, Luke was one of them, and Chris' role in that whole mess wouldn't exactly endear him to the townspeople. And him going all Richie Rich and buying out their whole Knit-A-Thon was such a douchey suck up move.

At least was one instance where they didn't fawn over something/someone related to Lorelei.

[RachelKM]

3 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Well to be fair, Luke was one of them, and Chris' role in that whole mess wouldn't exactly endear him to the townspeople. And him going all Richie Rich and buying out their whole Knit-A-Thon was such a douchey suck up move.

At least was one instance where they didn't fawn over something/someone related to Lorelei.

I didn't need them to fawn over him.  I agree the celebrate all things Gilmore in SH was sort of annoying.  But it was just jerk-ish of them and Lorelai for that matter to make him feel like he had to change to be accepted. 

As a whole that episode was annoying.  It made Christopher ridiculously obtuse for plot reasons.  Any moron who has ever participated in or watched or even read about an event that was a _____-a-thon to raise money other than a telethon, i.e. dance-a-thon, walk-a-thon, knows that the event is also community and/or awareness building and intended to be fun and, thus, the money is not the only point.  If you're going to make a big gesture, you do it anonymously at the end of the event when everyone seems to be over it and only if they need a little more to get over the threshold.  You don't simply buy out the event like an idiot - even if the event is a knit-a-thon.  

And I just I hate that the town gets to approve or disapprove of Christopher at all.  And I thought the whole set up was designed to make him uncomfortable, anxious about their relationship, and overcompensate which is what he did.  

I know that Lorelai didn't entirely want to be married and was probably acting some of that out, but I don't care how much I loved my community or family or if they were the same thing to me, you do not get to decide whether my husband is acceptable.  Lorelai should have confronted their judgy assess on his behalf rather than trying to make Chris audition for them.  Lorelai decided Chris would move to her town, to her home (and not change anything except under protest), and assimilate into Stars Hallow nuttiness.  She could at least expect SH to try back.   Like Chris or not, he was her husband and common courtesy should have had those assholes trying to help him fit in to make him a part of thing instead of acting like he had something to prove to them.  Loyalty to Luke and/or fondness for the idea of L&L does not justify their behavior which was disrespectful to Lorelai.   And if they couldn't provide common courtesy, that should have been affronting to Lorelai.   But instead, Lorelai acted like it was totally okay for SH to determine if Chris would be allowed to be a member of the community or be shunned and treated like an outsider. 

Maybe it's just my upbringing, but I was raised that when new people come to your town, home, gathering, you do your best to help them fit in by being welcoming and being tolerant of their lack of familiarity with your traditions.  It's not like Chris walked in and then refused to participate and ignored all of their events.  He just didn't understand them (but again, buying out the knit-a-thon thing was stupid and over the top... which describes 2/3 of season 6 and all almost all of season 7).

[Kohola3]

Quote

And him going all Richie Rich and buying out their whole Knit-A-Thon was such a douchey suck up move.

Christopher's response to anything was to throw money at it.  Want to get back in your daughter's life?  Attempt to buy her an enormous dictionary (epic fail, credit card declined).  Inherit from Grandpa?  Offer to buy her a castle.  Can't find a diner open in Paris?  Toss a wad of money to the maître d' and have him open the restaurant at the crack of dawn and serve dinner.  Want to impress the daughters friends?  Pay for lunch at a swanky restaurant.

Luke, for all his faults, was way more "real" in his relationship with Rory.  A special coffee cake for a birthday didn't cost much but was way more impressive , sweet, and thoughtful  in my opinion.

[Lady Calypso]

10 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

And I just I hate that the town gets to approve or disapprove of Christopher at all.  And I thought the whole set up was designed to make him uncomfortable, anxious about their relationship, and overcompensate which is what he did.  

 

I'm really not surprised. As much as I enjoyed some of Stars Hollow as a community, they were all really judgmental pricks from season 1. Any outsiders were immediately judged and deemed unacceptable. Dean, Jess, Christopher, and anyone else who dared to come there and disrupt life were immediately put on trial. I haven't watched season seven where Logan comes to visit, so I don't know how people reacted to him, but he also didn't move to town so he was really just a visitor. 

I know everyone in that small town knew each other from young ages so there's that family mentality that they kept pushing, but man if the town as a person didn't annoy the hell out of me. They shunned Dean when him and Rory broke up the first time, which was pretty bad, but at least he eventually fit in. Jess may have been a pretty wild bad boy who did some pretty awful things, but the fact that they had a town meeting in the first week that Jess was in town to decide how to deal with him? Who the hell does that? Sure, Jess stole some things and was refusing to be part of that town, but they were just as unwelcoming toward him! Eventually (well, really only an episode later), I wasn't blaming Jess for hating Stars Hollow and not wanting to participate in any of their cult-like events. Remember when Taylor had the audacity to be mad and almost hold a lynching for Rory when she started at Yale and couldn't become his precious Ice Cream Queen? Like, she had JUST started Yale and he was already bitching that she wasn't loyal to the town or some shit. And it wasn't even just him. The kids started joining in, and then everyone else followed suit!

It's no wonder Babette and Morey became my favourite residents of Stars Hollow. They were less judgmental than any of the other characters. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[marineg]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I just looked up the episode script, and the answer seems to be that Rory was about a year when Lorelai ran away and they had Mia overexaggerate the age (or they thought Lorelai had given birth at 17 instead of 16 before they changed that). As demonstrated in the flashback of Dear Emily and Richard: 

I think Mia also mentioned that Lorelai was eighteen when she started working at the Inn, and Rory had to be about a year to a year and a half at that point. So my best guess is that Lorelai had plans to leave but she knew that she would just be dragged back if she was still a minor. Plus, the help with a new baby without Christopher probably was the best idea, as there's no way Lorelai could have taken care of a newborn by herself while working. At least with Rory being a year old, there's a little less dependence and Lorelai would have had a year's experience taking care of Rory while also being able to provide her with all of a baby's necessities. 

What confounded me was this line from Mia in "The Inns and Outs of Inns":

10 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I know that Lorelai didn't entirely want to be married and was probably acting some of that out, but I don't care how much I loved my community or family or if they were the same thing to me, you do not get to decide whether my husband is acceptable.  Lorelai should have confronted their judgy assess on his behalf rather than trying to make Chris audition for them.  Lorelai decided Chris would move to her town, to her home (and not change anything except under protest), and assimilate into Stars Hallow nuttiness.  She could at least expect SH to try back.   Like Chris or not, he was her husband and common courtesy should have had those assholes trying to help him fit in to make him a part of thing instead of acting like he had something to prove to them. 

True. Especially considering that she and Luke did fight about their relationship against the town when they first started dating. So there is a precedent of Lorelei fighting back.

 

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm really not surprised. As much as I enjoyed some of Stars Hollow as a community, they were all really judgmental pricks from season 1. Any outsiders were immediately judged and deemed unacceptable. Dean, Jess, Christopher, and anyone else who dared to come there and disrupt life were immediately put on trial. I haven't watched season seven where Logan comes to visit, so I don't know how people reacted to him, but he also didn't move to town so he was really just a visitor. 

I know everyone in that small town knew each other from young ages so there's that family mentality that they kept pushing, but man if the town as a person didn't annoy the hell out of me. They shunned Dean when him and Rory broke up the first time, which was pretty bad, but at least he eventually fit in. Jess may have been a pretty wild bad boy who did some pretty awful things, but the fact that they had a town meeting in the first week that Jess was in town to decide how to deal with him? Who the hell does that? Sure, Jess stole some things and was refusing to be part of that town, but they were just as unwelcoming toward him! Eventually (well, really only an episode later), I wasn't blaming Jess for hating Stars Hollow and not wanting to participate in any of their cult-like events. Remember when Taylor had the audacity to be mad and almost hold a lynching for Rory when she started at Yale and couldn't become his precious Ice Cream Queen? Like, she had JUST started Yale and he was already bitching that she wasn't loyal to the town or some shit. And it wasn't even just him. The kids started joining in, and then everyone else followed suit!

It's no wonder Babette and Morey became my favourite residents of Stars Hollow. They were less judgmental than any of the other characters. 

True about Jess. I mean, coming from New York, SH must have looked crazy. But even then, they did everything they could to get him to leave, no wonder he reacted this way. Let's not forget he was a 16 year-old with no parental figure!

And for the Ice Cream Queen thing, Rory had no JUST started Yale. It was literally the day before she had to move in and had a whole lot of stuff to do before going to Yale. I mean, we've all been through college move-ins and MAN do they suck. Can't even imagine having the expectation of putting some Ice Cream Queen stuff ahead of a stressful college milestone! But hell, Taylor probs never went to college so...

[JaggedLilPill]

IMO, Taylor was the worst. He was gross. There's something about him that skeeves me out. I can't explain it. I know we're supposed to see him as this anal retentive jerk who everyone laughs off because he's so serious, but to me he comes off as someone who really enjoys wielding power and making people feel like shit for not bowing to his many, many demands.

The Ice Cream Queen is a good example. As others have stated, Rory was in the process of moving in to Yale and it was a very stressful time in which she was also pressed for time. And, beyond that, he didn't even ask her. Him bringing forth the topic of the L/L relationship at a town meeting is another good example. Seriously. Who does that? 

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

IMO, Taylor was the worst. He was gross. There's something about him that skeeves me out. I can't explain it. I know we're supposed to see him as this anal retentive jerk who everyone laughs off because he's so serious, but to me he comes off as someone who really enjoys wielding power and making people feel like shit for not bowing to his many, many demands.

The Ice Cream Queen is a good example. As others have stated, Rory was in the process of moving in to Yale and it was a very stressful time in which she was also pressed for time. And, beyond that, he didn't even ask her. Him bringing forth the topic of the L/L relationship at a town meeting is another good example. Seriously. Who does that? 

And of course the biggest part of Ice Cream Queen? Which Rory yells at him and the crowd when he's going on and onto the crowd how Rory wasn't the Ice Cream Queen. He never asked her! She wasn't even asked! The thing is if he had asked her. Rory would have probably tried to accommodate him. Because she usually does.  She tried to point it out to him that he never asked and explain because she was never asked and the short amount of time she couldn't do it because she had to get ready for Yale. 

[hippielamb]

On 9/14/2016 at 3:19 AM, andromeda331 said:

I'm not sure if this is the best place for it. But I really wished we knew what was the final straw for Lorelai that made her bolt with Rory. She talked a lot about how crappy it was for her to grow up in that house and other times how unhappy she was. But what was the final push? Was it a fight with Emily? Her parents overruling her parenting? Both? Neither?

That's what I think it was. Emily probably would have encouraged Lorelai to go back to school and then college. Maybe hiring a nanny for Rory without discussing it with Lorelai. That causes her to dig in her heels and resist their control. Or maybe it was as simple as harping about getting married and Lorelai felt suffocated. I think the initial push was to get Rory out of that house because Lorelai didn't want her growing up like she did. Maybe she was planning it and had to wait until Rory was weaned and Lorelai could find a job.

23 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Christopher's response to anything was to throw money at it.  Want to get back in your daughter's life?  Attempt to buy her an enormous dictionary (epic fail, credit card declined).  Inherit from Grandpa?  Offer to buy her a castle.  Can't find a diner open in Paris?  Toss a wad of money to the maître d' and have him open the restaurant at the crack of dawn and serve dinner.  Want to impress the daughters friends?  Pay for lunch at a swanky restaurant.

Luke, for all his faults, was way more "real" in his relationship with Rory.  A special coffee cake for a birthday didn't cost much but was way more impressive , sweet, and thoughtful  in my opinion.

I think that reflects how he was raised. We see over and over again with various wealthy characters that money is used to symbolize affection. They don't express their love for their family but will pay for school tuitions, fancy cars, loans, etc.

23 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I didn't need them to fawn over him.  I agree the celebrate all things Gilmore in SH was sort of annoying.  But it was just jerk-ish of them and Lorelai for that matter to make him feel like he had to change to be accepted. 

As a whole that episode was annoying.  It made Christopher ridiculously obtuse for plot reasons.  Any moron who has ever participated in or watched or even read about an event that was a _____-a-thon to raise money other than a telethon, i.e. dance-a-thon, walk-a-thon, knows that the event is also community and/or awareness building and intended to be fun and, thus, the money is not the only point.  If you're going to make a big gesture, you do it anonymously at the end of the event when everyone seems to be over it and only if they need a little more to get over the threshold.  You don't simply buy out the event like an idiot - even if the event is a knit-a-thon.  

And I just I hate that the town gets to approve or disapprove of Christopher at all.  And I thought the whole set up was designed to make him uncomfortable, anxious about their relationship, and overcompensate which is what he did.  

I know that Lorelai didn't entirely want to be married and was probably acting some of that out, but I don't care how much I loved my community or family or if they were the same thing to me, you do not get to decide whether my husband is acceptable.  Lorelai should have confronted their judgy assess on his behalf rather than trying to make Chris audition for them.  Lorelai decided Chris would move to her town, to her home (and not change anything except under protest), and assimilate into Stars Hallow nuttiness.  She could at least expect SH to try back.   Like Chris or not, he was her husband and common courtesy should have had those assholes trying to help him fit in to make him a part of thing instead of acting like he had something to prove to them.  Loyalty to Luke and/or fondness for the idea of L&L does not justify their behavior which was disrespectful to Lorelai.   And if they couldn't provide common courtesy, that should have been affronting to Lorelai.   But instead, Lorelai acted like it was totally okay for SH to determine if Chris would be allowed to be a member of the community or be shunned and treated like an outsider. 

Maybe it's just my upbringing, but I was raised that when new people come to your town, home, gathering, you do your best to help them fit in by being welcoming and being tolerant of their lack of familiarity with your traditions.  It's not like Chris walked in and then refused to participate and ignored all of their events.  He just didn't understand them (but again, buying out the knit-a-thon thing was stupid and over the top... which describes 2/3 of season 6 and all almost all of season 7).

Yes that whole thing felt forced. They were trying to shove the message that Chris doesn't fit in the oddball town. I don't like how the townies were characterized in season 7. They all treat Chris with a civility that Lorelai can see through. The problem is they were more than friendly with him at Lane's wedding, now suddenly they don't like him. Especially since he was married to Lorelai, who they treat like a queen. This is supposedly the same town that went to her engagement party with Max where she was sitting on a throne. And all lied for her in covering up her drunken speech at the wedding. It feels off, but then so do most of the characterizations in season 7.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

And of course the biggest part of Ice Cream Queen? Which Rory yells at him and the crowd when he's going on and onto the crowd how Rory wasn't the Ice Cream Queen. He never asked her! She wasn't even asked! The thing is if he had asked her. Rory would have probably tried to accommodate him. Because she usually does.  She tried to point it out to him that he never asked and explain because she was never asked and the short amount of time she couldn't do it because she had to get ready for Yale. 

Yeah, Taylor got worse as the series progressed (either that, or I just started noticing it as the seasons went on). The fact that the town seemingly hated Taylor as the selectman (as evidenced in early season 5) and did nothing to stop him just made it even more ridiculous. It seemed like nobody else wanted the job (besides Jackson for, like, a day) so I guess it just became Taylor's role, but why couldn't anyone stand up to him? There were moments when he was a decent guy who listened to requests, but most of the time, he ignored them and acted all high and mighty, as if he founded the town or something. Remember the episode where he "couldn't" run the Winter Carnival, but he was really just spying on the town to see if they could do as good of a job as him? And he woke everyone up at 3am just for that stupid town meeting? And don't get me started on his major freak out over the rotten eggs from Easter and making Kirk stay up all hours to find every last one of them. Taylor knew how dedicated Kirk was to the town and he knew Kirk wouldn't rest until he made Taylor happy. It was also one of my favourite Kirk/Luke moments, as Luke really did help a sleep deprived Kirk from a raging Taylor. 

I'll be honest; he might be my least favourite male character on the show, and we have a lot of pretty awful male characters, like Christopher. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

1 hour ago, hippielamb said:

I'm not sure if this is the best place for it. But I really wished we knew what was the final straw for Lorelai that made her bolt with Rory. She talked a lot about how crappy it was for her to grow up in that house and other times how unhappy she was. But what was the final push? Was it a fight with Emily? Her parents overruling her parenting? Both? Neither?

 

On 14/09/2016 at 4:50 PM, Lady Calypso said:

On 14/09/2016 at 4:02 AM, marineg said:

Honestly, I've tried in the past to figure out this whole thing. I haven't yet. She left, and from "Dear Richard & Emily", it seems that it is a year after the birth. But in "The Ins and Outs of Inns", from what Mia says, it seems that Rory was just a baby (as in a few months old). That whole moment of their life is very confusing for me so if anyone has answers to this, please share!

I just looked up the episode script, and the answer seems to be that Rory was about a year when Lorelai ran away and they had Mia overexaggerate the age (or they thought Lorelai had given birth at 17 instead of 16 before they changed that). As demonstrated in the flashback of Dear Emily and Richard: 

Quote

EMILY: Lorelai, we’re leaving! Well, what do you know? She finally put Rory’s stroller away. It’s the first time in a year I haven’t tripped over that thing.

I think Mia also mentioned that Lorelai was eighteen when she started working at the Inn, and Rory had to be about a year to a year and a half at that point. So my best guess is that Lorelai had plans to leave but she knew that she would just be dragged back if she was still a minor. Plus, the help with a new baby without Christopher probably was the best idea, as there's no way Lorelai could have taken care of a newborn by herself while working. At least with Rory being a year old, there's a little less dependence and Lorelai would have had a year's experience taking care of Rory while also being able to provide her with all of a baby's necessities. 

Emily's stroller line is something I completely missed the first time I watched the show, and it's vague enough that I'm uncomfortable using it a timestamp. It's possible the stroller might have been laying around since they bought it during Lorelai's pregnancy, for instance.

Also, the headcanon above sounds relatively reasonable and well thought out and one I've heard before around these parts but it doesn't quite does it for me? Frankly, I don't think it's insane enough for a teenager Lorelai, with all of adult Lorelai's ridiculous pride and none of her common sense. I have hard time picturing her after a pregnancy still biding her time for a full year until she lept to her freedom.

So, I suppose my unpopular opinion is that I believe it was giving birth to Rory that made something click in Lorelai's head more than anything Emily might have done. And I have this very clear mental picture Lorelai leaving the hospital with her mind completely made up and staying with the Gilmore's just long enough til she was physically capable of running away.  Rory, of course, would have been one of those miracle, "easy" newborns because Rory.

Edited September 16, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[Taryn74]

But Sookie also mentioned (in The Third Lorelai, I believe) that Lorelai left home at age 17.  Lorelai was 16 when Rory was born, which we know from at least two episodes.  (And Lorelai's birthday is in April, so she would have been 16 years and 6 months old when Rory was born in October.)  It may not make sense to you that she lived with E&R for almost a year, but it is canon.

50 minutes ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

It's possible the stroller might have been laying around since they bought it during Lorelai's pregnancy, for instance.

I can't imagine Emily allowing it to lay around her immaculate house like that before Rory was even born.  A never-ending battle of wills after Rory was born, sure.  But not before.

[Kohola3]

And just a thought with minimal importance, apparently when they were still at the Gilmores, Lorelai and Rory must have stayed in the same room.  No mention was every made of "Rory's room" at any time.  Odd, with a house that large, that there wouldn't have been a separate nursery.

[shron17]

On 9/15/2016 at 6:33 PM, Lady Calypso said:

And don't get me started on his major freak out over the rotten eggs from Easter and making Kirk stay up all hours to find every last one of them. Taylor knew how dedicated Kirk was to the town and he knew Kirk wouldn't rest until he made Taylor happy. It was also one of my favourite Kirk/Luke moments, as Luke really did help a sleep deprived Kirk from a raging Taylor. 

Well, to be fair, Kirk didn't make the egg map as instructed so he could throw all the eggs away after the kids were done.  I kind of like Taylor.  I mean, he is egotistical and OCD but he seems to do a lot for Stars Hollow.  And he so often gives the other characters someone to rant or throw wisecracks at, I don't think the show could be the same without him.

[clack]

Taylor abuses his power in order to favor his own business interests, and is not above tying up other people's businesses in red tape unless they do what he wants.

In short, Taylor is a crook. A minor league crook, as these things go, but a crook nonetheless.

[Lady Calypso]

4 hours ago, shron17 said:

Well, to be fair, Kirk didn't make the egg map as instructed so he could throw all the eggs away after the kids were done.  I kind of like Taylor.  I mean, he is egotistical and OCD but he seems to do a lot for Stars Hollow.  And he so often gives the other characters someone to rant or throw wisecracks at, I don't think the show could be the same without him.

I genuinely liked Taylor in the first three seasons or so. He's definitely a character that works in that small town dictator role. He definitely does a lot and I fault the townsfolk for not standing up to him more when they disagree. It's clear that they've disagreed on many of Taylor's choices, as heavily implied in the episode where Jackson becomes selectman and nobody wants to vote for Taylor. Nobody chooses to stand up for Taylor because they realize how important he is for their community. I do think without him, the town would not be as close as they are. I mean, Taylor no doubt pushes the town meetings, or else they'd never have one. He pushes all of these events and he's certainly good at what he does. He hasn't been as unreasonable as he could be. He's got some good qualities.

Unfortunately, all of his bad qualities outweigh the good for me. His ego and selfish attitude is so bothersome through seasons 4-6 that it's really hard to watch him. When people do try to talk to him reasonably, he has acted very unreasonably. For example, Lorelai trying to get the Dragonfly. It's nice that Taylor finally cooperated and I get that he had to follow protocols, but he was such a major dick about it. He's known Lorelai for seventeen years at that point. He knows how much of a hard worker she is and how reliable and trustworthy she is to run an inn. Yet, he makes a big fuss about getting the Historical Society involved and making Lorelai jump through unnecessary hoops to get his permission. 

And don't get me started on the stupid Ice Cream business he started. It's not necessarily just that, but the whole Ice Cream Queen hissy fit and knocking down Luke's wall to put a window without his permission. And then the traffic camera that got Kirk to crash into Luke's diner, and he doesn't even apologize or offer to pay for it. He doesn't even seem concerned about the damage! Comedic moment or not, Taylor has certainly made it hard for the townsfolk to like him. But they all mostly enable him, so it's just as much on them as it is on Taylor for his own shitty attitude. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[Kohola3]

And don't even get me started on the Sores and Boils Alley debacle.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Unfortunately, all of his bad qualities outweigh the good for me. His ego and selfish attitude is so bothersome through seasons 4-6 that it's really hard to watch him. When people do try to talk to him reasonably, he has acted very unreasonably. For example, Lorelai trying to get the Dragonfly. It's nice that Taylor finally cooperated and I get that he had to follow protocols, but he was such a major dick about it. He's known Lorelai for seventeen years at that point. He knows how much of a hard worker she is and how reliable and trustworthy she is to run an inn. Yet, he makes a big fuss about getting the Historical Society involved and making Lorelai jump through unnecessary hoops to get his permission. 

I was surprised Lorelai didn't just shoot him in the head when he suggested they get a clear hard plastic cover to protect the 1980s era porch at the Dragonfly.  He was being such a jerk. 

[chessiegal]

51 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I was surprised Lorelai didn't just shoot him in the head when he suggested they get a clear hard plastic cover to protect the 1980s era porch at the Dragonfly.  He was being such a jerk. 

Not defending Taylor, but he had a clear agenda that was an important plot line - he wanted to put an ice cream cart on the sidewalk and thought Luke would object (even though he hadn't even asked Luke), and he thought he needed Lorelai to intervene. Yes, Taylor was annoying, but he's part of the story we're being told. It's a fictional story written for entertainment. It's not a reality show.

[junienmomo]

2 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Not defending Taylor, but he had a clear agenda that was an important plot line - he wanted to put an ice cream cart on the sidewalk and thought Luke would object (even though he hadn't even asked Luke), and he thought he needed Lorelai to intervene. Yes, Taylor was annoying, but he's part of the story we're being told. It's a fictional story written for entertainment. It's not a reality show.

That's actually a nitpick. Taylor wanted to park an ice cream truck on the street. He didn't need Luke's permission. There was never any need for the whole scene.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Not defending Taylor, but he had a clear agenda that was an important plot line - he wanted to put an ice cream cart on the sidewalk and thought Luke would object (even though he hadn't even asked Luke), and he thought he needed Lorelai to intervene. Yes, Taylor was annoying, but he's part of the story we're being told. It's a fictional story written for entertainment. It's not a reality show.

I don't know if anyone here needs to be told Gilmore Girls is not a reality show.  If I remember right, Taylor also made everyone show up at dawn for the inspection, and was generally an ass about the entire thing.  That his motivation in making Lorelai jump through all the hoops was to ask her for a favor just makes him an even bigger jerk. 

[Melancholy]

The Francine and the Puffs student government storyline wasn't bad at all to me. It was really minor in S3 and people overstate how much time it took. I also thought it was very amusing and even interesting with some good lines. The actress who played Francine was comedically talented, although homely for her role in the school. It really never bored me. 

S4 is a great season for Rory. I really like seeing her single for much of the season. The season takes her on these little episode-by-episode events and mini-adventures that end up adding up to a choppy and rocky but still important freshman year- and I think that's pretty damn cool. I really like the "smallness" in Rory's life- the study tree, having to drop a class contrasted with Lorelai's near economic and career failure, etc. People judge Rory for complaining about small life problems- but that's really what most non-TV characters do and Rory felt very real to me in S4.

I don't see this amazing, hot chemistry between Lorelai and Christopher that is SO EPIC that it validates them as a couple, despite all of Christopher's behavior. Other than the dancing scene in It Should Have Been Lorelai- their one shining moment. Lorelai has a wall of ironic  detachment with everyone but Rory but I actually think her best romantic chemistry is with Luke.  

Christopher's detachment from Richard and Emily while Edie Haskell-y performing agreeability in front of them irritates me. He really is incapable of developing lasting caring relationships with others, besides Lorelai. Given how much Richard and Emily were on his side and did everything they could to make him feel appreciated, he should have been far kinder to them. Not seeing Richard in the hospital after his heart attack because of his jealous snit with Lorelai was unforgivable as a husband, but also to Richard who's been nothing but kind and fatherly to Chris. 

And I don't think E/R were silly or ridiculous to call for a lunch with Christopher to clear the air and make peace about him paying for Yale, despite Lorelai's attitude about it. I think most people would need that kind of friendly meal to deal with being usurped of a familial role, even if they need the meal to come to grips with the fact that the usurping is legit. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Melancholy

[Guest]

On September 18, 2016 at 11:04 PM, junienmomo said:

That's actually a nitpick. Taylor wanted to park an ice cream truck on the street. He didn't need Luke's permission. There was never any need for the whole scene.

He didn't need Luke's permission, but Luke clearly thought (at other times) that he should get to approve anything happening outside the diner (see red light, red light camera, etc.). It was actually surprising that he didn't care in this case!

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

You do need to inform business owners of street construction, though. And Luke objected to the camera on principle. Not the same as parking an ice cream truck, since it's not a privacy violation and is unlikely to impact Luke's business. I can see why Taylor wouldn't make the distinction, though. But why he felt so free to put a window in the shared wall between the diner and soda shop--or why he'd want to--is beyond me.  

[Melancholy]

Luke's objection makes sense to me. Luke didn't think that he should "get to approve" the red light or red light camera. He just vociferously opposed those new policy proposals for Stars Hallow, as is his right as a Stars Hallow citizen living in what's ostensibly a township direct democracy. He lost those policy battles. This happens all of the time in municipal politics. Luke opposed Taylor installing a window on HIS wall as his right as the landlord of the entire set of the buildings and his right as the owner of the diner who has a right to control the wall of his property. I'll admit that Luke wasn't entitled to his fit about Taylor opening a collectible plate store next to his diner, but Luke put his money where his mouth was and bought the building next door to him. 

As usual, Taylor is the insane one here and couldn't distinguish between Luke's opposing Taylor's ideas when Luke had a right to as a citizen of Stars Hallow advocating against a policy proposal or as the landlord opposing substantive changes to his building. It's a totally different ballgame than Luke opposing Taylor having a right to park a food truck on public streets, which Luke has no entitlement to oppose. I think it's just another instance of Taylor lacking a grip on reality and listening to why people have a problem with his various crazy idea.s That was part and parcel of Taylor unlawfully threatening Lorelai's business out of nothing but paranoia. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Melancholy

[Smad]

56 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

I like the anti-Rory angle. It fits, although I do think that she isn't any more suited to a career in science than Rory was to journalism.

The DNA thing was ridiculous from a scientific point of view, from the perspective that her uncle should have been (maybe was) fired for using the company resources for personal benefit, and breaching confidentiality of the results, even presuming he didn't have the names. He did the work, not her; she certainly wouldn't have been allowed in the lab if it were even in the same location that the uncle worked. LOL, there's a certain similarity to her cousin: she assaulted three guys, influenced her uncle to steal from his company, and treated it all like no big deal. And, for a kid who loved spouting curious scientific facts, she never discussed her brown eyes as compared to her parents' blue eyes, which is possible but unlikely, and would have been a very spout-able fact.

Growing an avocado plant is a first grade activity, not one for a 13 year old. A rock polisher isn't scientific, it makes stuff pretty. Science camps are not as good for aspiring scientists as Rory's trip to Washington would be for a budding political journalist because the camps are mostly play times using scientific objects. 

Realistically it was another example of clueless writing by people who didn't understand the basics of their chosen premise.

I'm not talking about realistic so I don't get why the novel about the DNA thing. I'm talking about their characters and personalities in relation to my UO that April is not Rory 2.0 as she is so often called. April actively persued things that suited her scientific mind (whether realistic or not) where as Rory whined how people took summer jobs for papers while she fled from her life to Europe. Also I can't see how the trip to Washington can be counted in the plus column for Rory, after all Paris all but begged Rory to be vice-president and if it weren't for that Rory would have never been there. Also I can't see Rory as a political journalist. Maybe if she were just commenting on world affairs or whatever (her lack of social abilities and unconfrontational personality would prevent her from interviewing people) but even then we never see Rory actively persue one line of journalism or another.

[junienmomo]

9 hours ago, Smad said:

I'm not talking about realistic so I don't get why the novel about the DNA thing. I'm talking about their characters and personalities in relation to my UO that April is not Rory 2.0 as she is so often called. April actively persued things that suited her scientific mind (whether realistic or not) where as Rory whined how people took summer jobs for papers while she fled from her life to Europe. Also I can't see how the trip to Washington can be counted in the plus column for Rory, after all Paris all but begged Rory to be vice-president and if it weren't for that Rory would have never been there. Also I can't see Rory as a political journalist. Maybe if she were just commenting on world affairs or whatever (her lack of social abilities and unconfrontational personality would prevent her from interviewing people) but even then we never see Rory actively persue one line of journalism or another.

Eh, the DNA thing and the clueless writing about science is one of my personal nitpicks. Kinda like people who know about food service cringing when watching Sookie injure herself on the job.

I don't see Rory as being fit for foreign correspondence, perhaps not even a small-town journalist. I also don't see April's behaviors as putting her on the scientist track. Rory was actually majoring in journalism at Chilton. The fact that a) a high school allows majors and b) she majored in journalism tells me she was given some dedicated education on the topic. It would be illogical for a school to offer a major in a subject without specific classes on that subject.

[clack]

Steven Moffat, of Dr Who and Sherlock fame, had a TV show called 'Press Gang', about the workings of a school newspaper. Now, my problem with Rory's Yale years is that her story-lines lacked focus. There seemed no over-arching dramatic impetus giving them force. And Rory's Yale seemed so under-populated, when it should have been as character-rich as SH.

I sometimes think that if the writers had concentrated on just the one aspect of Rory's Yale life, her job at the paper, then her plots would have had more energy. Flesh out the cast of characters beyond Logan, Paris, and Doyle. Make it a workplace comedy-drama.

One episode they could be covering some campus issue, the next dealing with some inter-office conflict. The potential for plenty of dramatic stories -- more stories anyway, than roommate conflict and the damn Life and Death Brigade.

[betsyboo]

UO#1:  I have stayed off the GG forum entirely so as to avoid any spoilers before Thanksgiving. But am just at the beginning of my rewatch and had to pop in to record my hatred of Jess. <ducks shoes. ducks tomatoes. ducks knives.> Hatred is probably too strong of a word, but as the kids say, I just can't with him. I only just watched his very first ep and while I cheered at jam-hands (an all-time fave quote) and pushing him off the bridge, I just hate the sullen, whiny, ungrateful bitchy Jess. I agree he had reason for the chip on his shoulder, but he was just a dick. I never got past that to really like him for Rory. Prob because at the time I loved Dean and hated Jess for intervening. (Yes, I realize that was Rory's fault.) I have all of his eps ahead of me, so maybe on this rewatch, I will change my opinion. It's unlikely. 

UO#2:  I want Rory to end up with Logan. <ducks more tomatoes and bombs.> If I have to pick between the three guys, Dean was her past, and did not have the same ambitions. Jess may have matured, but he didn't have the same ambitions either. Logan may have been a dick, too, but IMO, he was the best partner for her. He matured, too, over the time he was on the show. I just always thought that if they were together, they'd have a fabulous whirl-wind life of business and campaigns and red-eyes to see each other. Maybe this rewatch will change this opinion, too. We'll see. I may be remembering him through my aged rose-colored glasses. 

[Kohola3]

No need to duck, I am right there with you about Jess.  Maybe it was too many years in the ER having to deal with crap like that on a regular basis.  I can spot punks like him a mile away and have little patience for that kind of attitude.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, betsyboo said:

UO#1:  I have stayed off the GG forum entirely so as to avoid any spoilers before Thanksgiving. But am just at the beginning of my rewatch and had to pop in to record my hatred of Jess. <ducks shoes. ducks tomatoes. ducks knives.> Hatred is probably too strong of a word, but as the kids say, I just can't with him. I only just watched his very first ep and while I cheered at jam-hands (an all-time fave quote) and pushing him off the bridge, I just hate the sullen, whiny, ungrateful bitchy Jess. I agree he had reason for the chip on his shoulder, but he was just a dick. I never got past that to really like him for Rory. Prob because at the time I loved Dean and hated Jess for intervening. (Yes, I realize that was Rory's fault.) I have all of his eps ahead of me, so maybe on this rewatch, I will change my opinion. It's unlikely. 

UO#2:  I want Rory to end up with Logan. <ducks more tomatoes and bombs.> If I have to pick between the three guys, Dean was her past, and did not have the same ambitions. Jess may have matured, but he didn't have the same ambitions either. Logan may have been a dick, too, but IMO, he was the best partner for her. He matured, too, over the time he was on the show. I just always thought that if they were together, they'd have a fabulous whirl-wind life of business and campaigns and red-eyes to see each other. Maybe this rewatch will change this opinion, too. We'll see. I may be remembering him through my aged rose-colored glasses. 

Hello, my soulmate.  Glad to hear you agree with me on important matters in this forum as well.  And I love the new avatar.

Down with Jess. Yay for Logan! :)

[timimouse]

13 hours ago, betsyboo said:

UO#1:  I have stayed off the GG forum entirely so as to avoid any spoilers before Thanksgiving. But am just at the beginning of my rewatch and had to pop in to record my hatred of Jess. <ducks shoes. ducks tomatoes. ducks knives.> Hatred is probably too strong of a word, but as the kids say, I just can't with him. I only just watched his very first ep and while I cheered at jam-hands (an all-time fave quote) and pushing him off the bridge, I just hate the sullen, whiny, ungrateful bitchy Jess. I agree he had reason for the chip on his shoulder, but he was just a dick. I never got past that to really like him for Rory. Prob because at the time I loved Dean and hated Jess for intervening. (Yes, I realize that was Rory's fault.) I have all of his eps ahead of me, so maybe on this rewatch, I will change my opinion. It's unlikely. 

UO#2:  I want Rory to end up with Logan. <ducks more tomatoes and bombs.> If I have to pick between the three guys, Dean was her past, and did not have the same ambitions. Jess may have matured, but he didn't have the same ambitions either. Logan may have been a dick, too, but IMO, he was the best partner for her. He matured, too, over the time he was on the show. I just always thought that if they were together, they'd have a fabulous whirl-wind life of business and campaigns and red-eyes to see each other. Maybe this rewatch will change this opinion, too. We'll see. I may be remembering him through my aged rose-colored glasses. 

I'm with you on the Jess hatred. I wasn't even fond of  him after he "matured". Jess was always just "meh" for me.

Gonna have to disagree on the Logan love though. I dislike Logan even more than Jess. I don't buy into his nice guy act. I think he's a self-entitled, over-inflated, annoyingly arrogant d*ck. I don't want Rory to end up with any of them. They were her past and they will help mould her relationship future but I think they are the history and should remain as such.

[HeySandyStrange]

15 hours ago, betsyboo said:

UO#1:  I have stayed off the GG forum entirely so as to avoid any spoilers before Thanksgiving. But am just at the beginning of my rewatch and had to pop in to record my hatred of Jess. <ducks shoes. ducks tomatoes. ducks knives.> Hatred is probably too strong of a word, but as the kids say, I just can't with him. I only just watched his very first ep and while I cheered at jam-hands (an all-time fave quote) and pushing him off the bridge, I just hate the sullen, whiny, ungrateful bitchy Jess. I agree he had reason for the chip on his shoulder, but he was just a dick. I never got past that to really like him for Rory. Prob because at the time I loved Dean and hated Jess for intervening. (Yes, I realize that was Rory's fault.) I have all of his eps ahead of me, so maybe on this rewatch, I will change my opinion. It's unlikely.

I will be ducking with you, because I can't stand Jess. IMO his attitude seemed to belong to a whole different scenario then the one we saw in show, so I had a hard time scrounging up sympathy for him. He wasn't interesting or deep, just arrogant and almost as "superior" as Mrs Emily Gilmore herself. on a shallow note I never found him attractive, and I usually prefer unconventionally attractive people. 

Though maybe some of my dislike stems from my utter dislike for the dreadful Rory, Dean, and Jess triangle that took up way too much show time. I wanted to slap all of them before that was over.

[Melancholy]

UO: I don't think Luke is that bad in A Vineyard Valentine. It's not a great episode for him. He's certainly too grumpy. However, IMO, most of Luke's immediate hostility and suspicion of Logan comes from how Luke has been hearing Lorelai bash Logan and blame Logan for Rory's recent problems in life since Logan starting seeing Luke through the Rory/Lorelai rift. Luke wasn't trying to undermine Lorelai by bashing Logan. He was actually (somewhat obsequiously) trying to be on Lorelai's anti-Logan side from the very beginning even if Luke has a hunch that Lorelai will start off from a polite standpoint because Lorelai feels like she has to. Basically, Luke was trying to play the Willow Rosenberg role of how to interact with a best friend's ex but transmuted to how to interact with the hated boyfriend of the fiance's daughter.

WILLOW: (softly) Just so you know? I'm prepared to hate this woman any way you want. (shot of Riley and Sam talking closely)
BUFFY: Thanks, but no. I don't wanna seem all petty.
WILLOW: Well, that's the beauty! You can't, but I can. Please. Let me carry the hate for the both of us.

Lorelai is under pressure to force a good relationship with Logan but Luke isn't under the same pressure. Luke was running with that to carry Lorelai's hate for her. Now, IMO, Luke owed it to Rory and Logan, his host, to give Logan a chance from the beginning. However, Luke wasn't trying to wrong Lorelai but instead be her uber-supportive nattering nabob of negativity who'd validate all of Lorelai's stated complaints about Logan from the beginning even if Lorelai has to feel like being a convivial guest. Then, Luke came to actually like Logan on his own personality. 

This happens a lot when other people interact with Lorelai's parents. People get put in an awkward spot because they've been listening to Lorelai bash her parents/Logan for years and then, they're not sure how to properly balance giving Logan/Richard/Emily a chance against totally supporting Lorelai in her dislike. 

[Lady Calypso]

You guys don't have to do any ducking here. At least for me, I may be a Jess fan, but I'm ok with people who aren't because I understand why people wouldn't like him. He definitely had those qualities that made him a complete asshole for the majority of his run. He was definitely not a good boyfriend at all and it's a real shame that it ended up that way, although it felt very realistic. A lot of my appreciation for Jess, however, does stem from his growth with Luke as well as his chemistry with Rory. I think those two things make me enjoy him as a character more. The writing didn't always do him justice, and his minimal appearances after season 3 definitely made his growth feel rushed, but I also think they did a good job in showing that he was at least trying to change by the time of his last appearance. He had a lot of layers that they never really got to explore; they tried, but with the appearance of Liz onscreen, it made Jess look like a bigger jerk since Liz ended up quirky and funny instead of them fully addressing her neglect and abandonment with her son. 

Basically, I just like that Jess got his own story outside of being Rory's love interest, while Logan and Dean's storied primarily revolved around Rory in some way. Even with Logan's issues with his family, Rory was always around involved in some way. He never really got many scenes when Rory wasn't present. 

As for the Logan love, as I am finishing up my series rewatch, I definitely really like him as a character and have no problems with him being endgame. Through all of his faults, he did love Rory and tried to treat her right, and she loved him, so I didn't hate them as a couple (although I found myself not liking Rory as much by the last two seasons!). But Logan was too involved in his own world and Rory attached herself to it. I mean, Logan not even going to Stars Hollow until season 7? I know he did go to Lorelai's inn in season 6 to talk to her for one scene, but he never visited Rory's house, he never got to known the townsfolk, and this is after two years of dating her. I think that definitely made it seem like Logan/Rory weren't as good for each other as many thought.  But I do like Logan as a character and enjoy him a lot more than most of the love interests on the show. 

I think I talked about this before, but I loathe the town. I absolutely hate their entitlement. I think I'd feel the same as Jess if I moved to a town like that. I live in a small town and events like that definitely made me uncomfortable, but Stars Hollow always took it two steps too far. I've just finished Rory's Yale graduation episode and I don't think I hated the town more than I did there. Them berating Lorelai for not getting them tickets? What assholes. And I feel bad for all the other graduating students of that year who didn't get a huge Stars Hollow party in the town square. The town was fun in season 1. But honestly after that, it was a hit or miss for me whenever there was a big event of some sort. Mostly a miss, but they definitely had some good episodes. 

[clack]

Logan would make a better match for Rory if, instead of becoming an internet entrepreneur post-college, he had used his writing talent in some creative endeavor. Will Rory be fulfilled being a business man's wife, an Emily to Logan's Richard?

None of Rory's beaus seem suitable. Dean is too limited, Jess too bohemian, Logan too slick. A suitable match for Rory would be someone like a younger Max : professional, intelligent, literary, cultured.

[JaggedLilPill]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think I talked about this before, but I loathe the town. I absolutely hate their entitlement. I think I'd feel the same as Jess if I moved to a town like that. I live in a small town and events like that definitely made me uncomfortable, but Stars Hollow always took it two steps too far. I've just finished Rory's Yale graduation episode and I don't think I hated the town more than I did there. Them berating Lorelai for not getting them tickets? What assholes. And I feel bad for all the other graduating students of that year who didn't get a huge Stars Hollow party in the town square. The town was fun in season 1. But honestly after that, it was a hit or miss for me whenever there was a big event of some sort. Mostly a miss, but they definitely had some good episodes. 

ITA. What about when Patty invited those guys to the basket auction? It was creepy as hell and completely inappropriate for her to be showing Lorelai's picture around. I've set people up before, but not without telling them and getting their okay and making sure they wanted to meet someone. She basically ambushed Lorelai. It did lead to the nice gazebo scene with L/L, but still. 

So Lorelai wasn't dating much after she had broken off her engagement. That doesn't mean she needs someone to find her a man. 

I know it's GG so it comes off as gimmicky and I'm probably overthinking it, but there's something overtly icky about it. Same like when Emily and Richard invited all Yale men for Rory. 

[betsyboo]

8 hours ago, deaja said:

Hello, my soulmate.  Glad to hear you agree with me on important matters in this forum as well.  And I love the new avatar.

Down with Jess. Yay for Logan! :)

ahhhhh, it's good be back on the same wavelength!  :-)

[TimetravellingBW]

23 hours ago, betsyboo said:

UO#1:  I have stayed off the GG forum entirely so as to avoid any spoilers before Thanksgiving. But am just at the beginning of my rewatch and had to pop in to record my hatred of Jess. <ducks shoes. ducks tomatoes. ducks knives.> Hatred is probably too strong of a word, but as the kids say, I just can't with him. I only just watched his very first ep and while I cheered at jam-hands (an all-time fave quote) and pushing him off the bridge, I just hate the sullen, whiny, ungrateful bitchy Jess. I agree he had reason for the chip on his shoulder, but he was just a dick. I never got past that to really like him for Rory. Prob because at the time I loved Dean and hated Jess for intervening. (Yes, I realize that was Rory's fault.) I have all of his eps ahead of me, so maybe on this rewatch, I will change my opinion. It's unlikely. 

Re: All the Jess criticism, I'm pretty much with @Lady Calypso. I personally like Jess and Jess/Rory now but I totally get other people not liking him. On my first watch I hated him for exactly the reasons everyone's said: He was surly, obnoxious, treated Luke/Rory like crap and squandered his educational/future opportunities by skipping school. (And back then I was also on the Dean/Rory ship and disliked him for unsettling things). It wasn't until s6 when he totally won me over and on rewatches I was much more understanding of his background/situation. (And found Dean way more creepy and controlling rather than sweet). But I can understand why he pisses other people off. 

[Guest]

My UO spurred on by a discussion in the Season 6 thread - I think Jess gets FAR too much credit for Rory going back to Yale.  I don't see her return to school at all as a reflection of Jess' rant to her.  She seemed to be moving in that direction and away from her grandparents already. 

[Melancholy]

21 minutes ago, deaja said:

My UO spurred on by a discussion in the Season 6 thread - I think Jess gets FAR too much credit for Rory going back to Yale.  I don't see her return to school at all as a reflection of Jess' rant to her.  She seemed to be moving in that direction and away from her grandparents already. 

I agree with this. I mean, I love S6 Jess and he said a lot of valuable things to Rory. I don't want to exactly take anything away from him. However, Jess wasn't the first person to come up with angrily and directly confronting Rory. Lorelai and Paris tried and failed. Luke held back on confrontation but he wanted to do the same. Jess mainly came at a better time when Rory was already growing fed-up with her new life. And well, I do think that Rory was so concerned with looking cool and desirable around this time that the disapproval of sexy, bohemian-cool, ex-boyfriend Jess who was making maturity look REALLY cool hit Rory harder than the motherly disapproval of Lorelai or the weirdo disapproval of Paris. That ended up being for the best but it's an indication of Rory's shallowness at the time. 

Ironically, E/R played the biggest role in getting Rory back to Yale. I think push-factors away from E/R's house played a bigger role in Rory's choice than the pull-factors of Yale and missing Lorelai. I do think Rory genuinely missed Lorelai and Yale. However, the far bigger factor is that E/R came to refuse this fucked-up method of taking care of Rory like a child while treating her like an adult. However, that's what Rory wanted. Once Rory experienced the downsides of handing over adult independence in order to be provided for and kept like an indolent child, Rory suddenly saw the value of acting like a productive young adult.