General True Crime Shows

[Lizzing]

I'm normally not a fan of reenactment shows, but "Real Detective" on rerun tonight ("Damage" ep) with Michael Madsen playing the Texas Ranger is blowing my mind.  Not the story, poor girl was murdered in a love triangle, but that a bona fide movie star is in the reenactment.  (Okay, not a A lister, but Madsen was in Reservoir Dogs, for crissake!)  I kinda wish more crime reenactment shows would have known actors in the reenactments, though that might kinda verge on Drunk History territory. ;)

[applecrisp]

Watched Forbidden: Dying Love and was really saddened and upset about the honor killing episode.  Joseph's mom was little OTT but Mira's?? mom.  To just take your two daughters to their death.  How awful that he threw the money for one last meal.  That mom had gotten them away and she then takes them back.  And why Sarah too??  Too sad. I will not forget this soon.  IMO the mom is as guilty as her husband and should also be on the FBI's most wanted list.

 

i think sometimes I've become a little numb to some of these murders because I watch so much true crime. Especially the ones about spouses killing each other.  Parents killing their children will never be something I can accept.  All for cultural reasons.  Screw the culture.  These were two nice girls.  I am not saying anything against the Muslim culture in general.

[millennium]

I just watched the new episode of "Evil Lives Here," about Robert Hawkins and the Westroads Mall shooting in Omaha in 2007.

 

Curious to know more about it, I read the entry on Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting

 

The story told on "Evil Lives Here" is so vastly different from the factual story that it could be almost two entirely different stories, the only exceptions being that the perpetrator in both was named Robert Hawkins and that he shot people at the Westroads Mall.   Everything else, worlds apart.   How can the story told on ID be so far afield of the facts?

[applecrisp]

Millennium, could you give some examples of the inaccuracies?  I noticed that he was sent to the hospital at age 6 rather than age 4. Did not notice much more.  

 

I had to get fingerprinted for my job and the prints did not show up, so I was again fingerprinted.  The guy doing it said these would probably not show up very well either.  I had never heard of this before and thought it odd.  I just don't want to do it again.  He said it happens with women more often and can be from the kind of work they do.  Only thing I can think of is when I cook I often take out hot things with no oven mitts (within reason).

[glowlights]

I had to get fingerprinted for my job and the prints did not show up, so I was again fingerprinted.  The guy doing it said these would probably not show up very well either.  I had never heard of this before and thought it odd.  I just don't want to do it again.  He said it happens with women more often and can be from the kind of work they do.  Only thing I can think of is when I cook I often take out hot things with no oven mitts (within reason).

 

I have the same problem. It isn't necessarily due to work - unfortunately it can be due to aging or just plain genetics. My fingerprints have always been pretty faint on digital scans. Missed my calling as a criminal! hahaha

[Maizie131]

Whoa!  Vanity Fair Confidential was pretty good last night (re: Air Force Cadets).  Don't know where I've been (I actually DO read the news -- in fact, every day for many years now!), but I was pretty shocked by the episode.  Seems to imply the "problem" will never be fixed.  Did anyone watch this?  Holy Shit!  Altho, it really shouldn't surprise me. 

[Sammich63]

It was a real eye opener!! It proves sexism is alive and well in this country.

I also had to be fingerprinted more than once, so I guess it happens sometimes.

[SoCal Mema]

Holy crackers on the Air Force Cadets episode!  I had no idea.  What was even more stunning and unbelievable to me was when the stats were revealed post all these incidents.  From 2012-2014, rape in the Air Force Academy jumped by 40%.

[walnutqueen]

This came as no surprise to me, since I have seen several documentaries on the subject in the past few years, yet nothing changes.  Last I heard, the incidence of on-base sexual assaults reported was 6 times greater than in the surrounding community in my neck of the woods.  But since 9/11, it is considered unpatriotic to even hint at a criticism of our most beloved and revered military.

Edited January 27, 2016 by walnutqueen

[Callasin]

I was fingerprinted for a job years ago and they did not turn out well.  I was told that doing lots of paperwork caused it.

 

Last night I watched Web of Lies.  It was about a teen who lied about her age and met someone online who also lied and was a sex offender.  I found it really odd that two of the advertisers for this show we eharmony and farmers only.  The last thing I would want to do after seeing a show about the dangers of meeting strangers online would be visiting online dating sites.

[Cobb Salad]

I watched Web of Lies last night too but didn't pay enough attention to the commercials to notice if there were any about dating sites.

What I'm wondering was if the girl's friend who was "seeing" the older man thought twice about what he could do to her. Chances are probably not.

[geekgirl921]

I just watched the new episode of "Evil Lives Here," about Robert Hawkins and the Westroads Mall shooting in Omaha in 2007.

 

Curious to know more about it, I read the entry on Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting

 

The story told on "Evil Lives Here" is so vastly different from the factual story that it could be almost two entirely different stories, the only exceptions being that the perpetrator in both was named Robert Hawkins and that he shot people at the Westroads Mall.   Everything else, worlds apart.   How can the story told on ID be so far afield of the facts?

I didn't see many inaccuracies. Also, you need to remember that anyone can edit wikipedia entries so they are not necessarily accurate.

[millennium]

I didn't see many inaccuracies. Also, you need to remember that anyone can edit wikipedia entries so they are not necessarily accurate.

 

I'll stipulate that anyone can edit Wikipedia, so instead consider this article from the New York Times:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/08/us/08gunman.html

 

I'll put the rest in spoilers, just in case.

 

Compare the "Evil Lives Here" episode about Hawkins with that article.   A major discrepancy I see is that ID made no mention whatsoever of a suicide note, yet Hawkins actually left two of them (Wikipedia reports that his parents had one of those suicide notes in hand before the shooting happened)   ID also made no mention of the fact that Hawkins had suffered a series of personal setbacks in the week leading to the massacre, including the loss of a girlfriend and loss of his job.   Nor did it mention that a neighbor had reported Hawkins to the police after he was seen dealing drugs and shooting at a car, or that the police had ignored those reports.   ID portrayed Hawkins as a smirking, one-dimensional demon, the embodiment of evil and hatred -- and yes, perhaps this was part of his personality.   Yet one of his suicide notes also hints at a desperately conflicted, mentally ill person who apologized for what he was about to do and expressed his love for his family.   I know the latter part doesn't jibe too well with "Evil Lives Here" but stories shouldn't be twisted or slanted to fit ID's format, IMHO.)

 

See this article too:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7663066

Edited January 29, 2016 by millennium

[geekgirl921]

 

I'll stipulate that anyone can edit Wikipedia, so instead consider this article from the New York Times:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/08/us/08gunman.html

 

I'll put the rest in spoilers, just in case.

 

Compare the "Evil Lives Here" episode about Hawkins with that article.   A major discrepancy I see is that ID made no mention whatsoever of a suicide note, yet Hawkins actually left two of them (Wikipedia reports that his parents had one of those suicide notes in hand before the shooting happened)   ID also made no mention of the fact that Hawkins had suffered a series of personal setbacks in the week leading to the massacre, including the loss of a girlfriend and loss of his job.   Nor did it mention that a neighbor had reported Hawkins to the police after he was seen dealing drugs and shooting at a car, or that the police had ignored those reports.   ID portrayed Hawkins as a smirking, one-dimensional demon, the embodiment of evil and hatred -- and yes, perhaps this was part of his personality.   Yet one of his suicide notes also hints at a desperately conflicted, mentally ill person who apologized for what he was about to do and expressed his love for his family.   I know the latter part doesn't jibe too well with "Evil Lives Here" but stories shouldn't be twisted or slanted to fit ID's format, IMHO.)

 

See this article too:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7663066

I didn't see that. I think the title sort of implies that but I think the family did a good job of portraying the love they had for him. I don't know maybe there was too much emphasis on the bad things he did but I do think he was very troubled for a long time.

[Mannahatta]

Did anyone watch the last Real Detective episode that featured Det. Don Tabak in LA? The case was about a 22 year old woman, Jodi Bartmess, who was stabbed repeatedly at a party, and while still alive thrown out of a car only to die near a dumpster. It was a horrific case with witnesses who did nothing to help her. And the killer, who was convicted of manslaughter, only received 6 years. I was looking at my TV screen in disbelief hoping it was a typo. So I googled Jodi Bartmess to see if that was the actual sentence. The only article (LA Times 1990) I came up with didn't say anything about the trial but it did say that she may have been murdered over a "dispute over drugs". I wonder if that was why he only got 6 years - because the victim wasn't sympathetic enough? Sometimes these sentences seem to have no rhyme or reason.

 

And, yes, it is interesting how there is often a discrepancy between the facts of any given show on ID and what's on the internet. It doesn't matter if it's on Wiki or a newspaper article, there always seem to be odd little and/or big differences in the stories. Which brings me to another issue: I may have to stop googling all these crime stories lest Mr Mannahatta become alarmed by my computer's history.

 

[punkypower]

Just saw that the next episode of "Autopsy..the Last Hours of" will air on Feb 6 on.......Phil Hartman.

I sobbed during the Robin Williams, River Phoenix, and Karen Carpenter ones. I'll be one hot mess for Phil.

[Tunia]

I got crickets in the LMN forum, anyone watch this?

 

I've just recently discovered this show and find that I like it a lot.  After watching almost all the true crime shows, they start to get a little depressing, but ILYBIL has a lighthearted tone to it - almost comedic - and I'm enjoying the break from the seriousness of the other shows.  Will keep watching this one.

[smittykins]

Which brings me to another issue: I may have to stop googling all these crime stories lest Mr Mannahatta become alarmed by my computer's history.

Hey, at least you haven't googled "How to kill Mr. Mannahatta and make it look like an accident." :)

(Seriously, though, do perpetrators not know that their computers are going to be confiscated and searched?)

Edited January 30, 2016 by smittykins

[Brattinella]

Oh My God what a rat bastard this guy was lloyd jones who texted this 16-yr old and blackmailed her!  There is a special corner of hell reserved for this kind of monster!  (Web of Lies)

[punkypower]

Yup, between this episode and the 13-year old, OMG. I felt so badly for the grandmother/mother and brother. She just wanted to give those kids the best life possible and obviously had no idea the world of social media.

Then there's my rage at the latest See No Evil, the couple murdered for money that left 9 orphaned special needs children they had adopted.

I think what tops them all is Tiffany Cole and Michael Jackson. The Most horrifying Your Worst Nightmare in my mind is "Surprise Guests," the tale of the generous, frail, and elderly Sumners. I happened to catch a Snapped: Killer Couples on those monsters yesterday, and my blood is a boiling again!

edited bc auto-correct sucks!

Edited February 5, 2016 by punkypower

[sleekandchic]

There's a new show on Oxygen called #killerpost. It's narrated by Sharon Martin, the woman who also narrates Snapped; but unlike Snapped, Sharon actually appears on-screen. She bookends the hour with an intro and a wrap-up.

Sharon's droning narration of Snapped has always driven me crazy. But guess what? After seeing her on-screen and watching her as she speaks directly to the camera, my opinion has changed. Ha! Now when she voiceovers, I can picture her, and her narration makes more sense to me. Sharon tweets so you can see her photo there; and on LinkedIn, I learned she also executive produces Snapped.

#killerpost season 1, episode 1, was pretty good. The series is about how social media can figure into some really horrific crimes. "Payne/Potter" was really nuts. Obviously, cold-blooded murder is always shocking, but the final revelations brought the story to a whole other level of insanity.

The first episode reruns tonight Sun, 1/31/16, @10pmET. I'm interested in your reactions. I thought the on-air crime experts were a little unrealistic in insisting that the 36-year-old male victim only wanted to be "friends" or a "big brother" to the 30-year-old Jenelle. I thought he sent mixed signals to a woman who he recognized was ultra-sheltered. (Of course, he didn't deserve his fate!)

https://www.oxygen.com/killerpost

Edited January 31, 2016 by sleekandchic

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Holy crackers on the Air Force Cadets episode!

I was confused about the young woman who contracted herpetic meningitis from her rapist not being able to prove the rape - couldn't it be physically proved by comparing samples of the herpes lesions from her and her rapist?

[punkypower]

Thanks for reminding me, sleekandchic!! <3

Arrrrrrgh!!! Where have I seen the case before??

The only thing I can find is 20/20, so I guess it must be true, but I barely ever watch it.

..I will not sleep tonight, it's going to drive me nuts.

The show was done very well, and I'll keep DVR'ing; but, it didn't give me the "holy crepe, I'm DONE with Internet dating/socializing" freak out that ID's Web of Lies does! :p

Edited to add: HOLY CREPE, were those the real crime scene photos?? Cheese and upchucked crackers!! Also, the cousin was new!! I actually like to see the same cases on different shows to see the differences.

Edited February 1, 2016 by punkypower

[sleekandchic]

punkypower! xoox The story was completely new to me. Kookaluks! Cousins and the CIA and Catfish! Oh, my!

Web of Lies on ID drives me crazy. Why are the predators so sophisticated, while the victims are so gullible? I do understand when the preyed-upon are young teens with little experience with lying liars who lie. But women in their 20s/30s/40s truly drive me craaaazy. ESPECIALLY when small children are involved! Most of the time the besotted women know something isn't right, but they still press on. Stupid stupid idiotic fools.

I think what I find most fascinating about the Potter family dynamic was how Mother and Dad convinced themselves that their daughter was brain-damaged and special-needs when she was neither. The parents were loony and set up their daughter for failure.

Usually we hear about teens/young adults who can't wait to leave home; but sometimes we hear about a Jenelle Potter, a 30-something content to be coddled and infantilized by her parents.

I'm always surprised! But I vow never to unfriend anybody! No matter what. :)

Here are a couple of links on the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/convicted-tennessee-woman-denies-wanting-couple-dead-social/story?id=34370841

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/08/couple-murdered-for-unfriending-woman-on-facebook.html

[cbetsky]

 

I was confused about the young woman who contracted herpetic meningitis from her rapist not being able to prove the rape - couldn't it be physically proved by comparing samples of the herpes lesions from her and her rapist?

 

I got the impression that it wasn't so much that they couldn't prove who did it - it was that he claimed the sex was consensual.

[geekgirl921]

Yup, between this episode and the 13-year old, OMG. I felt so badly fot the grandmother/mother and brother. She just wanted to give those kids the best life possible obviously had no idea the world of social media.

Then there's my rage at the latest See No Evil, the couple murdered for money, that left 9 orphaned special needs children they had adopted.

I think what tops them all is Tiffany Cole and Michael Jackson. The Most horrifying Your Worst Nightmare in my mind is "Surprise Guests," the tale if the generous, frail, and elderly Sumners. I happened to catch a Snapped: Killer Couples on those monsters yesterday, and my blood is a boiling again!

I remember seeing the story about the Sumners and thinking how horrible it was that they were buried alive. I mean really, you couldn't show just the tiniest bit of mercy and at least shoot them???

[punkypower]

Yup, I knew from YWN that when they found them in the grave, they were holding each other.

Snapped revealed Reggie had broken through his bonds in order to hold Carol. It also revealed their health problems.

Killed in such a cruel manner, simply for being so good to the bitch.

No comments on the latest Web of Lies ?!?!?! OMG, there isn't a word for the craziness of this monster?! Even worse, the sentence was an insult to sweet Garnett's memory. I just can't find words.

Here is her blog (if attention was why she did it, TWO entries--REALLY?!), one of her 3 FB profiles, her mySpace, twitter, and an article for those who haven't and/or not going to watch:

http://garnettsjourney.blogspot.com/?m=1

https://www.facebook.com/lacey.spears.16?__nodl

https://myspace.com/ladybuglacey20/mixes

https://mobile.twitter.com/garnettsmommy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/03/the-rare-disorder-experts-say-drove-lacey-spears-to-murder-her-son-with-salt/

[walnutqueen]

How in HELL didn't that poor baby's original docs pick up on the sodium poisoning before performing all those awful unnecessary surgeries?  The pictures of that lovely little boy had me completely undone.

[tobeannounced]

What was her sentence?  Can't remember.

[punkypower]

walnutqueen, YES!! How many doctors saw that poor baby?! Also, her family, KNOWING she was pathological liar?!? Never got her help and they also supported her after the murder??

tobeannounced, 25 years to life!!

[Brattinella]

That poor baby!  I think the doctors need to pay somehow for their neglect.  Who cuts into an infant FIRST before trying alternatives??  And her family KNEW.  God that whole thing made me sick.

[tobeannounced]

Geez, have you noticed if you kill your wife or child, you get off a lot easier?  Crazy.  His little bright, happy face in the picture they showed at the end was just...I have no words.  How could you treat that beautiful child and beautiful spirit that way?

[FanOfTheFans]

Yup, between this episode and the 13-year old, OMG. I felt so badly fot the grandmother/mother and brother. She just wanted to give those kids the best life possible obviously had no idea the world of social media.

Then there's my rage at the latest See No Evil, the couple murdered for money, that left 9 orphaned special needs children they had adopted.

I think what tops them all is Tiffany Cole and Michael Jackson. The Most horrifying Your Worst Nightmare in my mind is "Surprise Guests," the tale if the generous, frail, and elderly Sumners. I happened to catch a Snapped: Killer Couples on those monsters yesterday, and my blood is a boiling again!

Oh my God, the Sumners is the most heartbreaking story. I want to cry every time I think about them. When they were found, they were holding hands.

[Cobb Salad]

Re: Web of Lies - that was a sad story. Given how shady they were making Lacey look later in the show I was doubting the story she told about who Garnett's father was so I went online to see if there was anything about her (plus I fell asleep toward the end). I found an article from a news site about a man who said he was Garnett's father and once she was pregnant she had nothing to do with him. I'm wondering if I missed something since the show didn't mention him at all - was that not important enough for the story?

She's a real piece of work, plus her parents as depicted on the show must have their own issues too.

[FanOfTheFans]

Re: Web of Lies - that was a sad story. Given how shady they were making Lacey look later in the show I was doubting the story she told about who Garnett's father was so I went online to see if there was anything about her (plus I fell asleep toward the end). I found an article from a news site about a man who said he was Garnett's father and once she was pregnant she had nothing to do with him. I'm wondering if I missed something since the show didn't mention him at all - was that not important enough for the story?

She's a real piece of work, plus her parents as depicted on the show must have their own issues too.

The father was a neighbor. They did a DNA test on Garnett after he died. The show addressed this at the end. She had told him the baby wasn't his.

[Maizie131]

Last night's Murder Comes To Town "Mom Makes Four" was very disappointing.  I usually like this show, but this particular story dragged on FAR longer than need be.  I'll watch next episode, but it's gotta get better to keep my interest.  What did you guys think?

[walnutqueen]

Last night's Murder Comes To Town "Mom Makes Four" was very disappointing.  I usually like this show, but this particular story dragged on FAR longer than need be.  I'll watch next episode, but it's gotta get better to keep my interest.  What did you guys think?

 

I've forgotten it already.  ;-)

[Brattinella]

I've forgotten it already.  ;-)

 

LOL!  Me, too!

 

Anyone remember what it was about?

[Maizie131]

LOL!  Thanks, Walnutqueen & Brattinella!  I was pretty sure it wasn't just me!  haha! 

[Brattinella]

Wow this woman on Dark Desires, Joe is her stalker, she literally CAN'T do anything to help herself.  She won't tell her family, friends, co-workers or the cops how evil and tenacious this guy is! And the way he injured her previous lawn guy to get himself hired??  GOD.  Seriously, I am suprised this woman survived.

[auntjess]

Here's a case that will probably be showing up somewhere.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/09/making-a-murder-case-how-a-prosecutor-won-a-conviction-with-an-absence-of-evidence/?hpid=hp_no-name_hp-in-the-news%3Apage%2Fin-the-news
 

[Rina99]

Wow this woman on Dark Desires, Joe is her stalker, she literally CAN'T do anything to help herself.  She won't tell her family, friends, co-workers or the cops how evil and tenacious this guy is! And the way he injured her previous lawn guy to get himself hired??  GOD.  Seriously, I am suprised this woman survived.

 

I try to avoid this show now.  It makes me feel too bad about myself as a person with the unkind thoughts I have towards these poor people, because they are awful experiences.  At this point it has to be deliberate.  There have only been a handful of episodes that didn't come off that way.

[walnutqueen]

Ice Cold Killers was chilling (pardon the pun) - a real life axe murderer!  Turns out he was a creepy nutjob who should've been locked away long before he murdered. 

[Josette]

 

Was the murderer the father of the boyfriend, or did I dream that?

 

 The uncle of the boyfriend.  His name is Jimmy Steed.  The victim was Carla Cook Fuqua.  I think it's just unsatisfying because the killer never explained the murder.  Why was she there?  Did she try to blackmail him or something?   It's just very odd.

 

By the way, Joe Alaskey, who narrates Murder Comes To Town a la Paul Winfield, passed away recently.  He was a voice artist who  did many Looney Tunes voices.

 

 

And the way he injured her previous lawn guy to get himself hired??

 

I really thought that was just dramatic license.  No way can they know that unless he confessed. 

[Maizie131]

Ice Cold Killers was chilling (pardon the pun) - a real life axe murderer!  Turns out he was a creepy nutjob who should've been locked away long before he murdered. 

Chilling, indeedy!  What also scared the hell outta me was the cop who was interrogating him sat inches from this guy - no handcuffs nor shackled in any way that I could see.  Now that took balls.  I don't know how cops do it. 

[applecrisp]

 The uncle of the boyfriend.  His name is Jimmy Steed.  The victim was Carla Cook Fuqua.  I think it's just unsatisfying because the killer never explained the murder.  Why was she there?  Did she try to blackmail him or something?   It's just very odd.

 

By the way, Joe Alaskey, who narrates Murder Comes To Town a la Paul Winfield, passed away recently.  He was a voice artist who  did many Looney Tunes voices.

 

 

I really thought that was just dramatic license.  No way can they know that unless he confessed. 

 

I have liked this show a lot.  Is it the same guy that voiced Bugs Bunny??  I thought he sounded like Peter Lorrie.  Anyhow, liked this show because it is about rural areas and the poverty that is often a fact of life.  There is a lot of drug use and few high paying jobs.  People on the margins.  The uncle of her boyfriend killed her.  There are 3 other missing persons cases in this county and they are still not solved.

 

This area reminds me of Justified (my recent binge watch) and was set in Appalachia.

Edited February 10, 2016 by applecrisp

[walnutqueen]

By the way, Joe Alaskey, who narrates Murder Comes To Town a la Paul Winfield, passed away recently.  He was a voice artist who  did many Looney Tunes voices.

 

I will miss his narration.  :-(

[punkypower]

Ice Cold Killers was chilling (pardon the pun) - a real life axe murderer! Turns out he was a creepy nutjob who should've been locked away long before he murdered.

Yup, that was the first epi of ICK I've watched. Possibly the creepiest confession I've seen. Whackjob, indeed!! So tragic that the victim's 20-something daughter died of heartbreak a few years later.

The other thing that's been sticking in my mind is the killer from last week's Unusual Suspects. Once he finally slipped up and they caught him by getting his DNA off of a spoon, he went "comatose." For his mugshot, his eyes are closed and for the arraignment, they had to strap him in wheelchair (he wound up committing suicide before trial). Have you guys ever seen something like that before? Brrrrr....

Edited February 10, 2016 by punkypower

[auntjess]

On that Ice Cold Killers, we yet again have a door left unlocked, and I again say "thank God, I'm a city girl."
There should be PSAs nationwide on locking doors--homes and cars.
And I don't mean to blame the victim, but people should be more careful.

Edited February 10, 2016 by auntjess

[Maizie131]

I've got I.D. on now for background noise while I'm cleaning & not paying attention until I glance at the TV & see a shot of people holding up signs that say, "Tell the truth, Casey."   It's Aphrodite Jones reviewing the Casey Anthony debacle (I couldn't watch when it originally aired a couple years ago). 

 

Just yesterday I read an article about her (Casey Anthony's) recent start-up of a photography business.  She's living in a $500,000.00 home in West Palm Beach, FL w/some guy who worked on her defense team.  I sat down to watch it for about 10 minutes but couldn't stop shaking my head -- still in disbelief -- about the outcome of that trial.  Had to turn it off.