The Last Kingdom - General Discussion

[pezgirl7]

Just finished the 4th season last night. I liked the new characters enough, but I couldn't tell you their names. I wish this season had more light hearted moments. I miss seeing Uhtred and his merry band of misfits having fun and joking around. Not that they were big talkers before, but I think Sihtric and Baby Monk had maybe 5 lines between them the whole season. As a Finan fan, some of my favorite moments were seeing him with the boy, especially that scene where they were playing with the toy boat. I thought more would come from him making moon eyes at that new lady. Maybe next year. Although they'll probably jump ahead in time, and we'll miss out on seeing him be a dork while trying to impress her. I do wish they would have given her a wig that matched her eyebrow color.

Who knew all it took for Aethelred to be a nice guy was a traumatic brain injury. Someone should have clocked him over the head a long time ago. 

I was sad at the abrupt deaths of Beocca and Steapa. 😞 But I liked that we got to see more of Lord Aldhelm. I knew he wouldn't be able to kill Aethelfaed.

Edited May 8, 2020 by pezgirl7

[One Tough Cookie]

I'm really enjoying Dawson's portrayal of Alfred -- his carefully thought out strategies and reasons for them are really interesting.  And when he told Edward his decision to join the fight was worthy of being a king he had to rake him over the coals before the compliment {being a typical father} was Arthur at his best.

 And the make up people aged him so subtly compared to the other characters.

[Tyro49]

Just finished episode 8 - Uhtred's younger son will definitely have to make an appearance now that Junior has headed back to his monastery.

What is this "sickness" supposed to be?

[iMonrey]

After binging the entire Vikings series over the summer, I'm a little burned out on Vikings in general. But it's hard to side with the Vikings as they are portrayed in The Last Kingdom. They seem to be nothing more than savage marauders who enjoy killing for the sake of killing. I'm especially disappointed in Brida, to the point of being sick of her. She and Uhtred were raised under the same circumstances and are both Saxon born. She should be a little more flexible and not so gung-ho Vikings. She also should have known Uhtred could never have killed her. Could she have killed him if the situation was reversed? Probably, which is why I'm tired of her.

I'm also tired of big battle scenes. It's a lot of quick cuts and shaky cams and it's hard to tell what's going on. Just because you have the budget to do it doesn't mean you should do it all the time. I know the show is proud of spectacle and people enjoy that sort of thing but it needs to be filmed better and used more sparingly as a story telling device.

Overall it was a strong season, but I'm tired of seeing Uhtred constantly lose out on a chance to reclaim his heritage at Bebbanburg. I haven't read any of the books so I don't know if he ever reclaims it but I've got a feeling it's going to be a long wait assuming the show ever gets there. 

I've also been waiting to see Aelswith get hers since Season 1 so I won't be satisfied if she just dies from illness or by her own hand. 

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Who are the brother and sister helping  Aethelred?

Eardwulf and Eadith. Their father was a nobleman who lost his title and lands in some unspecified disgrace. They were trying to influence Aethelred to restore their family honor and title. No, we never saw them before this season. 

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What's going on with the Danes other than the usual pillaging and murdering? 

Nothing and that's my problem with them. They just pillage and murder for the sheer joy of it. The Saxons may be sketchy and have their own agendas, but they are not invading foreign lands and murdering the populace in order to take control of other territories. 

Sigtryggr is maybe the exception. The Jared Leto of the Vikings. Probably supposed to represent the "new order" of Viking behavior. (And boy, what a mouthful is that name?)

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Where did cousin Witgar and his band of mercenaries come from?  Is this the first we've ever heard of him?

Wihtgar is the son of Ælfric (Uhtred's uncle who stole Bebbanburg from him). He was thought to have drowned as sea so Ælfric was surprised when he turned up this season. I don't know if he'd ever been mentioned before, and I don't know where he gathered a small army from either. 

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What is this "sickness" supposed to be?

I'm guessing the plague. Although it struck a little too close to home right now if you know what I mean. Eerie timing on that.

Edited May 21, 2020 by iMonrey

[Haleth]

Just finished the season and enjoyed it a lot. Sigtryggr is an interesting character. More intellectually curious and more interested in finding good land for his people than in silver.  More like Ragnar on Vikings, looking at the bigger picture. He’s a more interesting adversary than Cnut or Aethelflaed’s husband or the arse licker whose name I never learned. Speaking of villains who have worn out their welcome, I’m sick to death of Brida and her vendetta and Edward’s mustache twirling father-in-law.  And why is Haesten still around like a cockroach?  I enjoyed getting to know Uthred’s children. Both actors were appealing. 

There will be a 5th season?

[iMonrey]

I haven't heard anything about a fifth season, but this was one of Netflix's top rated (?) shows so I'd say it's likely. (They put out a list of the 10 most downloaded or watched, in other words, and The Last Kingdom was in the top 3.)

Edited May 26, 2020 by iMonrey

[Cdh20]

On 5/24/2020 at 7:47 PM, Haleth said:

Just finished the season and enjoyed it a lot. Sigtryggr is an interesting character. More intellectually curious and more interested in finding good land for his people than in silver.  More like Ragnar on Vikings, looking at the bigger picture. He’s a more interesting adversary than Cnut or Aethelflaed’s husband or the arse licker whose name I never learned. Speaking of villains who have worn out their welcome, I’m sick to death of Brida and her vendetta and Edward’s mustache twirling father-in-law.  And why is Haesten still around like a cockroach?  I enjoyed getting to know Uthred’s children. Both actors were appealing. 

There will be a 5th season?

I hope we get more seasons( fingers crossed). I think production of every damn thing is on hold because of covid 19? I bet anything that hadn’t started yet will be on hold until next year- ugh!

[Kim0820]

On 11/30/2018 at 4:31 PM, skyways said:

Agreed. I felt I was physically there. 10 episodes are too short. I wanted to see more Athelflaed, Athelred, his adviser, Hild instead of Skade, Haeston, Bloodhair in short enough of the Danes!!!

But Ragnar why? WHY??!!!!😵😭

I felt like I was physically there too.  In fact, I was dreading going outside in the cold snowy winter, but then realized it is about 80 degrees outside where I am.  

[Kim0820]

On 12/30/2018 at 12:01 PM, snowwhyte said:

I haven't read the Last Kingdom books but the author also wrote the Sharpe series and the hero in that churned through love interests, most of whom died to fuel his manly pain so I'm guessing Gisela's death is by the book. It was a crappy ending for her though. There doesn't seem any point in getting invested in Uhtred's love interests because they won't last long.

I tried reading the books after seeing the Sharpe series, and noticed that one big change from the books was to amplify the stories of the women.  It seems the author does not want to write about women, and the book was nothing but battles and men, as Catherine Morland says, "the men all good-for-nothing, and hardly any women at all."  Or, they were just passing interests for Sharpe and plot points.  

So I wonder if that is what happened here too.  And yes, of course they conveniently die or go off, so the hero can have a series of beauties.  Especially I wonder if Hild, who is just a friend, is a as big in the books as she is here.    

And the rules seems to be that if a woman enters the convent, the marriage is automatically dissolved, which was very convenient.  I thought hilarious Uthred just thought he could marry Gisela, as that would have been bigamous, but that's how they took care of it. 

 

 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I just binged all 4 seasons. It was entertaining 

I have lost all favor for Alfred's children in season 4. Edward is a twat who doesn't know what a dimwit he is, keeping a snake by himself for as long as he did

The female daughter whose name I can't spell is an ungrateful twit just like her father.  Uhtred is good enough to hump and protect your kingdom and heirs but not good enough rule.  Seriously those ungrateful siblings along with Uhtred's being continued betrayed by those he fight for is souring me off the show

That brings me to Brida. Did she forget the part where Uhtred went after Cnut to avenge Ragnar? I hated what she became by the end. 

So sad Ragnar went out the way he did. 

Poor father Beoacca went out a hero. May he rest in peace

[Eunike]

16 hours ago, Kim0820 said:

I tried reading the books after seeing the Sharpe series, and noticed that one big change from the books was to amplify the stories of the women.  It seems the author does not want to write about women, and the book was nothing but battles and men, as Catherine Morland says, "the men all good-for-nothing, and hardly any women at all."  Or, they were just passing interests for Sharpe and plot points.  

So I wonder if that is what happened here too.  And yes, of course they conveniently die or go off, so the hero can have a series of beauties.  Especially I wonder if Hild, who is just a friend, is a as big in the books as she is here.    

And the rules seems to be that if a woman enters the convent, the marriage is automatically dissolved, which was very convenient.  I thought hilarious Uthred just thought he could marry Gisela, as that would have been bigamous, but that's how they took care of it. 

 

 

Bernard Cornwell has a formula and he pretty much sticks to it throughout his books,  whether it be Sharpe or The Last Kingdom series.  As historical fiction, I find his books very entertaining and enjoyable, but writing women is his weak point.  The majority of women serve as love interests who are then conveniently killed off or sent off somewhere to never be seen from again when Cornwell wants to move his hero onto the next love interest.  What happens to Gisela in the show is taken straight out of the books.  

The only female character in the Last Kingdom series who sticks around for any length of time, and has any major character development is Alfred's daughter, Aetheflaed. I think Cornwell actually did a good job with her since we see her character develop throughout the series from a young and naive girl into a wise and hardened ruler. Too bad this isn't the case with the other women in the series.   

Part of the reason why I love the show is that I think it handles its female characters so much better than the books. Characters like Aelswith and Hild are far more interesting and much more developed than their book counterparts.  

[FnkyChkn34]

Hi all, I'm new to this show, but I love it!  I've binged watched all 4 seasons twice, and only have one real problem with it:  Where is Uhtred's third child, his second son, in season 4??  The boy isn't much younger than his daughter, so he should be there with her, or at least somewhere.  He isn't even mentioned.  Did he die?  Did Uhtred disown him?  They made a point of showing the scene where Uhtred is introduced to him, so we know he existed at one point!

Edited June 13, 2020 by FnkyChkn34

[Cdh20]

On 5/31/2020 at 10:02 AM, Eunike said:

Bernard Cornwell has a formula and he pretty much sticks to it throughout his books,  whether it be Sharpe or The Last Kingdom series.  As historical fiction, I find his books very entertaining and enjoyable, but writing women is his weak point.  The majority of women serve as love interests who are then conveniently killed off or sent off somewhere to never be seen from again when Cornwell wants to move his hero onto the next love interest.  What happens to Gisela in the show is taken straight out of the books.  

The only female character in the Last Kingdom series who sticks around for any length of time, and has any major character development is Alfred's daughter, Aetheflaed. I think Cornwell actually did a good job with her since we see her character develop throughout the series from a young and naive girl into a wise and hardened ruler. Too bad this isn't the case with the other women in the series.   

Part of the reason why I love the show is that I think it handles its female characters so much better than the books. Characters like Aelswith and Hild are far more interesting and much more developed than their book counterparts.  

I have noticed a theme on the historical shows recently is feminism, which I love, but most likely is not historically accurate. My husband has read the Cornwall books, & assures me that the women are underplayed in the books. The exception being Aethelflaed  & she was obviously exceptional to have actually ruled in that time! I have thought of reading the books, but expect to be frustrated or disappointed.

[ADRz]

I have watched Season 4 of the "Last Kingdom" and I was really disappointed.  Not necessarily with the story but with the script and the development of the show.  It has now entered into the world of magic.  Uthred is a young man when he fights in the battle of Eddington in 878 CE.  However, he also plays a pivotal role in the battle of Tettenhall (the main event in Season 4) which was fought in 910 CE.  Uthred -had it been a real person- must have been in his late 50's at that time.  However, he is portrayed as relatively young (not even seriously middle-aged).  So, the unaging Uthred is a big problem.  From episode 4 onward, the story evolves not in a logical way.  Uthred supposedly accepts Edward's invitation to take the throne of Mercia, but resigns then in favor of Aethelflead.  This makes absolutely no sense!!  Why not take the throne and marry Aethelflead.  She was a widow and in love with him.  Of course, this would have been a rewriting of history.  History did record the Athelflead became the Queen of Mercia and ruled until 918, when she died.  I guess that the writers of the script did not want to create an "alternate history" but the whole story with Uthred makes absolutely no sense.  Then, you have the totally imaginary sack of Winchester by Sigtryggr (or historical Sitric) which, of course, never happened and which was resolved in a totally incomprehensible manner.  The Anglosaxons manage to breach the walls an enter the city but then stop to negotiate!! what?? This made absolutely no sense.  Who is writing these scripts???

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, ADRz said:

So, the unaging Uthred is a big problem.

Yeah, I'd been thinking about this.  Uhtred was with Alfred before Aethelflaed was born, yet they appear to be close in age.  Lots of handwaving in service of storytelling.

[ADRz]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, I'd been thinking about this.  Uhtred was with Alfred before Aethelflaed was born, yet they appear to be close in age.  Lots of handwaving in service of storytelling.

Lots of bad writing, I would say.  I have not read the books (the Saxon Chronicles) on which the TV series is based but I do not think that it is as bad as the show.  It would have been great if the story had showed Uthred as grey old warrior in the battle of Tettenhall, his last battle so to speak.  The 4th season has actually spanned a period of at least 12 years, from 902 to about 915 (Aethelflead is still alive).  I think that it would be comical if the 5th season centers on Aethelstan's conquest of Northumbria (and it may be), because Uthred would be almost 80 years old by then!!!!

[LanceM]

Going by actual historical dates, Uhtred should be about 58 years old at the end of season 4. this is based on him being a young man witnessing Alfred's coronation in 871 to the passing of Aethelred in 911. 

Aethelflaed  should be 41 years old and her daughter Aelfwynn should be in her early 20's

Edward should be 37 years old at the end of season 4 and his son Aethelstan was about 17

Aelswith should even have been alive in 911 as she actually died in 902

 

So yeah, they are playing fast and loose with ages and dates on this show.

[Eunike]

22 hours ago, ADRz said:

Uthred supposedly accepts Edward's invitation to take the throne of Mercia, but resigns then in favor of Aethelflead.  This makes absolutely no sense!!  Why not take the throne and marry Aethelflead.  She was a widow and in love with him.  Of course, this would have been a rewriting of history.

My impression was that Uhtred gave up the throne because he knew that Edward wanted to use him as a puppet.  I don't think his hair was even dry yet from the baptism when Edward was going over what was expected from him as the new lord and protector of Mercia.  Ultimately, though, you're right, it does come down to history.  The real-life Aethelflaed was the only Anglo-Saxon woman to rule a kingdom in her own right, and the show was never going to change that even to make her a co-ruler.  While it felt somewhat contrived, her chastity oath does at least have some basis in history since later Norman historians mention her taking a chastity oath to avoid the dangers of child-birth. 

22 hours ago, ADRz said:

Uthred is a young man when he fights in the battle of Eddington in 878 CE.  However, he also plays a pivotal role in the battle of Tettenhall (the main event in Season 4) which was fought in 910 CE.  Uthred -had it been a real person- must have been in his late 50's at that time.  However, he is portrayed as relatively young (not even seriously middle-aged).

The show definitely condenses the timeline to make the characters younger than their book and real-life counterparts.  Based on the books, there's around an 8 year time jump from the end of last season to the beginning of this season, and season 4 is meant to take place between the years 910 to 911.  This would make Uhtred somewhere in his fifties, even though he clearly doesn't look it.  The last book in the series is coming out this October, and Uhtred is near eighty and is still fighting.  Quite frankly it's becoming a bit ridiculous. I wish Cornwell had switched the narration over to his son, but he wants to keep Uhtred as his protagonist and have him fight alongside Aethelstan at the battle of Brunanburh even though it is completely unrealistic.  While the books aren't as bad with the timeline as the show, there are still inconsistencies, and the dates don't always line up if you think about it too much.  

22 hours ago, ADRz said:

Then, you have the totally imaginary sack of Winchester by Sigtryggr (or historical Sitric) which, of course, never happened and which was resolved in a totally incomprehensible manner. 

I think part of the problem is that the writers don't know what to do with Edward and so they made up the fictional battle of Winchester.  Edward is barely in the books at this point since Uhtred's loyalty is to Aethelflaed, not Edward.  If the show had completely followed the book storyline this season, Edward would have only made a brief appearance during the Battle of Tettenhall.  He's mostly heard of, but not seen, and what we do hear of him makes him seem like an inferior version of Robert Baratheon, especially in comparison to his sister.   I am curious to see they handle his storyline next season since he's barely in those books as well.  

[ADRz]

10 hours ago, Eunike said:

My impression was that Uhtred gave up the throne because he knew that Edward wanted to use him as a puppet.  I don't think his hair was even dry yet from the baptism when Edward was going over what was expected from him as the new lord and protector of Mercia.  Ultimately, though, you're right, it does come down to history.  The real-life Aethelflaed was the only Anglo-Saxon woman to rule a kingdom in her own right, and the show was never going to change that even to make her a co-ruler.  While it felt somewhat contrived, her chastity oath does at least have some basis in history since later Norman historians mention her taking a chastity oath to avoid the dangers of child-birth. 

The show definitely condenses the timeline to make the characters younger than their book and real-life counterparts.  Based on the books, there's around an 8 year time jump from the end of last season to the beginning of this season, and season 4 is meant to take place between the years 910 to 911.  This would make Uhtred somewhere in his fifties, even though he clearly doesn't look it.  The last book in the series is coming out this October, and Uhtred is near eighty and is still fighting.  Quite frankly it's becoming a bit ridiculous. I wish Cornwell had switched the narration over to his son, but he wants to keep Uhtred as his protagonist and have him fight alongside Aethelstan at the battle of Brunanburh even though it is completely unrealistic.  While the books aren't as bad with the timeline as the show, there are still inconsistencies, and the dates don't always line up if you think about it too much.  

I think part of the problem is that the writers don't know what to do with Edward and so they made up the fictional battle of Winchester.  Edward is barely in the books at this point since Uhtred's loyalty is to Aethelflaed, not Edward.  If the show had completely followed the book storyline this season, Edward would have only made a brief appearance during the Battle of Tettenhall.  He's mostly heard of, but not seen, and what we do hear of him makes him seem like an inferior version of Robert Baratheon, especially in comparison to his sister.   I am curious to see they handle his storyline next season since he's barely in those books as well.  

Uthred giving up the throne was very badly done and wholly unbelievable.  If we were to move to the Aethelflaed coronation, there were many other routes that the writers could have taken.  The one chosen was fully unconvincing and a bit ridiculous, if you ask me.

Any show can "condense" the timeline if it makes up fictional events (although the term historical fiction would not apply).  Why have real events (such as the battles of Eddington and Tettenhall) and real people, such as Alfred the Great and Edward I, if one then "condenses" the timeline?  It makes little sense.  A good historical fiction interposes fictional characters and events within a known historical framework.  It would not have been bad to have Uthred as an aging combatant in the battle of Tettenhall.  It would have been far more believable than what was put on screen.

Furthermore, even if one makes up totally fictional events, these events can only have a dramatic effect if they are "authentic".  The capture of Winchester by Sitric and the successive siege was badly, badly done.  None of it made much sense.  After breaching the walls, the Anglo-Saxons stop to negotiate a deal that ends up surrending north Mercia to the Vikings!!!  It just did not make any, any sense!!!

[Cdh20]

These shows based on books have to move along at a faster pace than the drawn out books. Also the books are only partly historically accurate, the point is to have interesting characters to root for ( & hate) & the real people might not fit the bill. The characters must age far too many more years on tv, than the actors in real life! Makeup is only so good.( I like my hero young, pretty, & in shape.) This show has made a point of not telling us the years of events, so I just let it go. I love to look up the real events, but don’t expect them to be portrayed the same in a book, or show. 

[Eunike]

1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

These shows based on books have to move along at a faster pace than the drawn out books. Also the books are only partly historically accurate, the point is to have interesting characters to root for ( & hate) & the real people might not fit the bill. The characters must age far too many more years on tv, than the actors in real life! Makeup is only so good.( I like my hero young, pretty, & in shape.) This show has made a point of not telling us the years of events, so I just let it go. I love to look up the real events, but don’t expect them to be portrayed the same in a book, or show. 

 I remember Katheryn Winnick mentioning in an interview how long the makeup process took to age Lagertha, and I never found her aging to be very believable.  Claire and Jaime from Outlander have also barely aged since the show started.  While characters like Uhtred, Aethelflaed, and Brida are supposed to in their 40s and 50s according to the timeline, we're clearly meant to see them as being a lot younger in the show. There's a reason why the show stopped giving dates back in season 2. They don't want us to think about the timeline too much.  Besides, the show has been asking us to suspend disbelief since the first episode when they cast thirtysomethings Alex Dreymon and Emily Cox to play 18-year-old Uhtred and Brida.  My main concern is always the story and the characters. As long as I enjoy those I have no problem overlooking any timeline inconsistencies.  If anything, slowing down the aging process will work in the show's favor later on since I have a very hard time seeing a near 80-year-old Uhtred still fighting, which is what happens in the book timeline.   

[ADRz]

15 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

This show has made a point of not telling us the years of events, so I just let it go. I love to look up the real events, but don’t expect them to be portrayed the same in a book, or show. 

Then they should be portrayed in a galaxy far, far away.  Yes, the show did not mention the year of a particular event, but the events it portrays have definitive dates associated with them:  Alfred' accession to the throne, Guthrum's invasion, the battle of Eddington, the battle of Tettenhall, Aethelflaed's election as the Queen of Mercia, etc.  All of these are real people and real events.  The show would only work if somebody is totally ignorant of history.  Well, some people are and this may just work fine for them, but a good number of others are not.  For those who know that the battle of Eddington was fought in 878 and that Tettenhall was fought in 910, well, having a yound Uthred in both of these destroys any attempt of a sensible narrative.  It has brought the show from the realm of historical fiction to one of fantasy!!!  In fact, whereas the previous seasons were acceptably based on reality (not wholly, but acceptably), season 4 was mostly fantasy, including the capture of Winchester by Sitric and the subsequent incomprehensible siege (in which nothing made sense).  I was ready to overlook various points, that Alfred's widow had died even before the events of season 4, that Aethelstan was a teenager at the time of the battle of Tettenhall and that Edward was then middle aged, but bringing the whole show to fantasy was not OK by me!!!

[ADRz]

14 hours ago, Eunike said:

My main concern is always the story and the characters. As long as I enjoy those I have no problem overlooking any timeline inconsistencies.  If anything, slowing down the aging process will work in the show's favor later on since I have a very hard time seeing a near 80-year-old Uhtred still fighting, which is what happens in the book timeline.   

Well, obviously we differ at that.  If one uses real people and real events, moving everything to the realms of fantasy destroys most of the narrative sense.  One can move the whole event to fantasy making no allusions to real people and I would be happier.  It is not as if Alfred the Great is an unknown personality, or that the main battles (Eddington, Tettenhall) are unknown events.  If one wants to write fantasy, one should dispense with real characters and historical events. 

There have been excellent historical fiction books.  In these, fictional characters and events are included seamlessly in a historical setting.  In other cases, historical fiction just fills the gaps.  The "three musketeers" is a good version of the first case; "I Claudius" is a very good example of the latter.  In both these cases, the real timeline and real persons are not altered in any way. Sometimes, the dearth of information for a particular period can be used as a devise of providing "alternative" exaplanations.  This works great for "Amadeus" for example.  Not that much is known for the interaction between Salieri and Mozart, so one could make stuff up; Did Salieri "kill" an exhausted Mozart by allusions to his betrayal of his father?  Probably not, but it is a good "play" in a historical setting.  

[supposebly]

Since I know very little of England's history, I really don't watch this as a historical drama but more like a funnier Game of Thrones or maybe a better Vikings with more eyeliner and hairdos that I can't imagine being historically accurate. Never even mind the healthy teeth.

Therefore, I'd rather have a buff 30ies Uthred twirling his sword than an 80 years old Uthred. It stretches my imagination a lot more that someone would make it to 80 (and still fighting) at the time than squeezing decades of England's history around a fictional character into a few years.

Hearing about this does make me reconsider my plan to read the books once the show is over.

[Eunike]

7 hours ago, supposebly said:

Hearing about this does make me reconsider my plan to read the books once the show is over.

The books are quick reads, and it's clear that the author knows his history well.  Cornwell's primary goal is to tell the story of the creation of England, and it's great to see historical figures like Alfred, Aethelflaed, and Aethelstan come to life.  My chief complaints about the books are mainly 1) pretty much every major female character who isn't a blood relation becomes a love interest at some point and is then conveniently discarded. Thankfully, the show changed this after season one only keeping his most significant love interests, Gisela and Aethelflaed.  2) The later books become a bit formulaic, and I find the quality isn't as good as the earlier ones.  Septuagenarian Uhtred is also a bit unbelievable since he would have been pretty ancient for the period.

[supposebly]

Those two points are exactly why I'm now a bit hesitant.  I adore most of the female characters on the show. I liked Cornwell's take on the Arthurian legends, that's why I even started watching The Last Kingdom. But the older I get, the less tolerant I get with badly drawn female characters, even in historical fiction.

[LanceM]

The cast announces that the Last Kingdom has been renewed for season 5!

https://twitter.com/TheLastKingdom/status/1280518184404123655

[Razzberry]

On 6/17/2020 at 1:18 PM, ADRz said:

If one wants to write fantasy, one should dispense with real characters and historical events. 

The Vikings on History Channel would make your blood boil. 

Sad to hear this is happening (haven't seen it yet) since I thought the show had been somewhat accurate regarding known events and people, if not dates.  I think when Netflix stepped in we began to see subtle but disturbing changes. The hairdos became more elaborate, like the fake Vikings on History Channel, for starters.

There's a  belief that you can't be both entertaining and accurate, apparently.  I agree with your examples, but there's never been an award for "Most Historically Accurate" film or series. so am just content to hear another season will be forthcoming.

Now I'm off to re-up with Netflix and shall return.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Razzberry

[supposebly]

4.1 I see Edward continues his father's time honoured tradition of being a dick to Uthred when he needs help to get Bebbanburg back. Haesten continues being a weasel and a liar, and Aelswith reaps what she sowed. Beocca is still the wisest man in all the land. I had a feeling he wasn't going to stay home. Alfred's shadow still looms over everyone even though his writings are being put in storage. I don't remember Aethelhelm but he is easy to hate. Still, I do miss little Aethelwold in that type of role. Loved the three stooges' conversations about how to get into Bebbanburg. Hild! I am with Uthred, your fighting days are far from over. At least I hope so. Loved how happy Uthred was when Finan, Osferth, and Sihtric came back. Aethelred is still a stupid prick. I like the brother and sister team so far. He reminded me for a hot second of a young James Purefoy when he was talking to Haesten. I wonder what will happen with Brida and Cnut's plans. That seemed awfully ambitious. That conversation between Beocca and Pyrilig was fraud with something....not sure. The relationship between Uthred and young Uthred is bound to get interesting. I haven't read the thread to stay unspoiled, so I'd rather not now if it's not.

4.2 Awkward and difficult family dynamics. I think Uthred did ok considering the circumstances. I can't believe I feel a little bad for Aelswith. An interesting mixture of regret, feeling sorry for what she did, but more so because it's blowing up in her face. On top of that, possibly scheming to get her son's first son on the throne in the future. Leaving your sons with Haesten, no good can come of it, Cnut! Brida seems a little less ok with her arrangement with Cnut. Young Uthred is already more devious than his father was at that age, not that this is a great achievement. Oh Uthred, it just never works out with you and Bebbanburg, does it?

4.3 Nooooooo!!! Beocca! The best man in all the land!

So much for the King of all England. Alfred's dream is pretty much gone already. Oh Brida.  A child not from Young Ragnar. I really feel bad for Aelswith although I actually think Edward is right not to run into Cnut's trap right away. Oh Finan. Oh Uthred. Oh Beocca.

I knew Haesten wouldn't be a good guardian for two boys. I don't remember. Was it true that Cnut caused Young Ragnaer's death by way of Aethelwold? Aw, young Uthred is warming up to his dad! 

4.4 Nice fake-out, Uthred.

I wonder if Eardwulf and Eadith will survive this season. This is what happens if you listen to Haesten.

Aethelfled is like a boxer from the movies. No sex before battle. And nicer than her father when taking advantage of Uthred.

It pays off when you arrive early for a battle. But no spoils for you if you’re late!

Oh Brida, pregnant with the child of the guy who’s responsible for Young Ragnar’s death. And poor Uthred who couldn’t kill the last of his Danish family. I was kinda hoping her story would be over. It's been meandering along with very little point, it seems.

Aethelred with a serious bump on his head. Excellent end to the episode!

4.5 The spoils of war and the politics after. Very tense!

One may even gain wisdom from a pig, Pyrlig, you never know.

Aethelred, apologising because he can’t remember what he did, typical. Eardwulf, falling upwards for no good reason. That killing was gross.

Oh Stiorra, I hope you didn’t just spell out your death with that little speech.

Edited August 4, 2020 by supposebly

[FnkyChkn34]

On 6/15/2020 at 7:31 AM, Haleth said:

Yeah, I'd been thinking about this.  Uhtred was with Alfred before Aethelflaed was born, yet they appear to be close in age.  Lots of handwaving in service of storytelling.

I agree that there is a lot of handwaving, but I disagree that Uhtred knew Alfred already before Aethelflaed was born.  I may be misremembering, but I think both of his children were born already in season one, with Edward being the sick baby in Episode 7.  Aethelflaed was already at least a toddler if not older by then.  I think I guessed she was probably 5ish.  The books may be different, however; I have not read them.

[juno]

I love this show so I am happy it is getting a new season but sad that it will be the last one.

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/the-last-kingdom-season-five-to-end-netflix-tv-series-no-season-six-canceled/

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by juno

[PatsyandEddie]

https://apple.news/ABjoF-AanRxqy6uxbdoV3CA

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S5 has finished filming!

[CountryGirl]

I cannot wait for S5. I'm trying not to think about the fact that it's the last season.

[Aliferously]

Five seasons is fine, sad that it's ending but I've long made peace with it. 

From what I've heard re: spoilers

Spoiler

 

There will be a 10 year time jump. Aelswith has survived the poisoning though in real life she didn't out live Alfred for all that long. And no, she wasn't poisoned.

In those ten years, Stiorra could have had three children by Sygthinger (whose name I can never properly put in writing) making Uthred the youngest tv grandfather in television history.

In the ten years, I hope Eadith and Finan have been married for at least six of them. They never really showed what happened with them in the s4 finale but I hope they found eachother sometiosme after.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[FnkyChkn34]

On Instagram, Alexander Dreymon posted some "parenting tips" (jokingly) and Millie Brady commented about providing step-parenting tips.  Spoiler?  Who knows.

[John Potts]

4.01 - I see that now the BBC aren’t involved we’re starting the new series with extra sex & violence from the start!

Kinda like Haesten. He’s a treacherous bastard, but he never pretends he’s anything else. Unlike Aethelred, who is just scum (and an idiot)

Uhtred does seem to be growing SOME political antennae. He actually had a good point on the value to Wessex of taking Bebbanburg (though it would need to control Mercia to make it really worthwhile – obviously that will happen eventually).

4.02 – I never thought I’d feel sorry for Alfred’s widow, but she is mourning her husband and starting to realise that now she’s no longer Queen, nobody listens to her. Sure, she made her own bed, but still… At least she’s doing her best to carry out Alfred’s will now, whatever Edward’s father in law is trying to do. Also, the show is giving minor spoilers that Aethelstan will be King of All England (OK, it’s a historical event, but there was no need to say it!)

I assume Uhtred’s son is a priest (who would not be required to be celibate for another couple of centuries) and not a monk (who would, I think), because otherwise he should have pointed out to Uhtred that he wouldn’t be having any sons (well, not officially, at any rate!). Though his reconciliation is happening much earlier than it does in the books (where Uhtred had another son), who did take after his father. Did not see Uhtred’s cousin murdering his father!

4.03 – Beocca! Nooooo! He was right about the need for unity, but you could see it was not going to play with either Uhtred or his cousin. I thought it seemed unlikely to work, but at least he died protecting the innocent. Glad Uhtred didn’t just shrug off his death, even if they needed to get going.

Book Spoiler:

Spoiler

Uhtred does eventually reclaim Bebbanburg, but much later

Wow, Aethelred just can’t help being a dick – even when he’s slaughtering East Anglians (while his own Kingdom burns!) he won’t reward his loyal subjects – it’s unsurprising he inspires treachery in all those around him. Though I find it hard to believe only one messenger would get through to him (there’s devastation in Mercia, not a single raid!). And while Edward’s father in law is a bastard, he does actually have a plan for how to fulfil Alfred’s vision, even if it does involve a lot of deaths of fellow Christians. Meanwhile, Aethelflaed actually sets about defending Mercia!

Book Spoiler:

Spoiler

It’s not surprising SHE becomes Queen of Mercia, not Aethelred

 

[John Potts]

4.04 – Fr Pyrlig is kinda badass, going into Wales with nothing and coming back with an army. Though King Hywel was right that he won’t stay independent by dancing to Wessex’s tune. And Edward was wise to honour the “agreement” he never made (never looks good to say your subordinates are making policy in your place).

Aethelred just can’t stop being a dick, or being stupid. Telling your the commander of your armies you intend to castrate him after the battle is not going to keep him loyal. Though having your Kingdom saved by his wife, her brother and a bunch of foreigners won't do much for your reputation either. Evidently people should have knocked his head in earlier (I'm sure Uhtred would have done so gladly).

Uhtred knows just what buttons to press when fighting Danes – even wiser ones like Canute. And he denied Canute a Viking death by not letting him hold a sword as he died. I assume he’s going to rescue Brida – she is his sister (by upbringing) after all (I don’t recall her fate in the books).

4.05 – So it’s “The West (Wesssex? Though mostly in Mercia) Kingdom” episode – it even had Sorkinesque “Walk & Talk” in corridors!

Uhtred’s daughter really takes after him, threatening to stab him as soon as he appears. I think he was almost flattered. And she outwitted the troops sent to take Aethelstan!

I suspect the Witan would remove Aethelred as King even if he didn’t die. A King who couldn’t fight would be considered no King at all. And he got a lot nicer after his head wound (briefly).

Evidently Aethelflaed knows exactly who her husband’s (new) mistress is. But at least she is the one who tells her husband like it is and is preparing for his death. And knows to put the good of the Kingdom ahead of her own boy toy (well, Uhtred is no boy). Loved Eadith pointing out that they weren’t so different – she was used as a pawn in her brother’s manoeuvring just as much as Aethelflaed was a pawn in her father’s (and to some extent, brother’s).

Edward is showing some glimmers of his father’s abilities – ignoring his father in law to follow Alfred’s policy of expanding Wessex. And he showed some shrewd politicking in trying to pick the “right” successor to Aethelraed.

4.06 – I liked Eadith admitting that she did what she did for her brother (“How’s that working out for you?” seems to be the saying of this season). And liked that everyone had a different theory of how diseases were spread, because they shouldn’t have a fully worked out germ theory in 900AD! But I would have thought Aethelflaed would have left some sort of signal for Uhtred before moving on. But apart from that, this was a bit of a nothing episode with lots of wondering in the woods until the very end. It didn't help that we know Aethelstan can't die because they've already said he'll be the next King (plus, you know, history!) and Uhtred has plot armour so he'll survive, which takes all the tension out of the chase. Wasn't expecting Eadith to sell out her brother (however justified). Maybe it was a bad idea to call your sister a whore when she slept with Aethelraed to save your skin?

Oh Edward, you were doing so well. Letting your mother into the burg might be natural for a son, but terrible policy for a King, particularly when Mercians already think Wessex is already exerting too much influence over them.

[John Potts]

4.07 – Since everyone important is now heading back to Aylesbury, was there any point to last episode?

“Ignore the chatter. Truly dangerous men do not utter threats.” Aethelhelm might be ambitious, but he’s not wrong. Was not expecting Edward to send him away!

Edward, you’re REALLY making the Wessex sceptics in Mercia’s point for them by throwing your weight around. OK, Mercia is stupid to break with Wessex (you get a better deal with them than with the Danes) but acting high handedly only drives more of a wedge between the Saxon Kingdoms. Listen to your mother! Though Uhtred was a bold choice to lead Mercia (yes, I know how it worked out, but it was a move worthy of Alfred) – for all his faults, he is a man of his word and would not break it if he swore to serve Edward.

The Princess survived! I was sure she was a gonner. And I’m sure it wasn’t lost on Aethelflaed that it was Eadith that was nursing her daughter.

If the Welsh are so good at keeping out the English, how come the Danes can just saunter in unopposed? Though at least Brida got her revenge on the Welsh Prince.

4.08 – Aethelflaed was right about what qualities a King needs – and why Uhtred doesn’t have them. Even if he is prepared to be baptised (for the third time)!

And Aethelflaed was right to show that her first act as ruler shouldn’t be to declare war on Wessex

Edward would not have left Winchester defenceless!

Brida really has got the taste for vengeance (with some justification). Though I thought the Welsh King was smarter than to charge into an army unprepared like that. Unlike his brother, he seemed to have some brains.

4.09 – Were the Winchester guards asleep? They but did nothing as the Danes attacked. And besides that – how the hell did the Danes get there? They either went from Wales across Southern England or sailed round the coast and came upstream from Southampton. In either case, somebody should have noticed a Dane army moving round the country!

Mind you, Uhtred didn’t do a lot better not noticing an army surrounding him - at least Eadith kept her wits about her (at least until her brother’s execution, but that’s forgivable). Haesten clearly never read the Evil Overlord List – “Death is not too good for my enemies!” - leaving Uhtred alive like that. Surely taking Uhtred's head would prove he was the one that killed him?

Did Edward just fling men at a fortified position and hope to win? Because that’s idiocy! I mean, the whole plotline is dumb (because it never happened, for one thing) but that was just piling one stupidity onto another.

4.10 – How exactly does Aethelhelm believe he’ll get back into the King’s good graces by killing his mother? He was already on the outs with Edward, now he “allowed” his mother to die in the city he was in charge of!

There is no way that Uhtred would be able to call a Ceasefire like that. It would be like trying to stop an avalanche with a bulldozer.

I guess Brida was looking for suicide by Uhtred?

On 6/17/2020 at 9:06 PM, ADRz said:

In fact, whereas the previous seasons were acceptably based on reality (not wholly, but acceptably), season 4 was mostly fantasy, including the capture of Winchester by Sitric and the subsequent incomprehensible siege (in which nothing made sense). 

I think departing from the Books has really done the series a disservice there. One of the things that bugs me is how fast people can move around the country but apparently news (or even rumour!) can't. If hundreds of Danes were moving across the country, there would be a flood of refugees fleeing from them. Yet Aylesbury and Winchester both fall and their Kings heard nothing! It would be more realistic to suppose they heard unbelievable stories ("A hundred thousand Danes burning the entire country!" and so on) than that they somehow stopped any word getting out.

[One Tough Cookie]

On 10/14/2015 at 11:16 AM, frenchtoast said:

Now I just need name tags for everyone. I know who they are in the books, but the Aeth--- names are going to throw me off! I might actually have to switch on closed captioning just so I can figure out the names.

This is  my third time around and I still having trouble with the Athels.

Edited September 6, 2021 by One Tough Cookie

[One Tough Cookie]

I don't know how invested I will be in the coming season with Alfred being dead.  He made the show for me.

[SharonH58]

On 6/19/2020 at 10:16 AM, supposebly said:

Those two points are exactly why I'm now a bit hesitant.  I adore most of the female characters on the show. I liked Cornwell's take on the Arthurian legends, that's why I even started watching The Last Kingdom. But the older I get, the less tolerant I get with badly drawn female characters, even in historical fiction.

No one has much of a story in the books except Uthred.   It's his story so it only involves him and those around him.   There isn't much of his gang in the books either.  I like the tv Osferth better than the book one too.

[supposebly]

6 hours ago, SharonH58 said:

No one has much of a story in the books except Uthred.   It's his story so it only involves him and those around him.   There isn't much of his gang in the books either.  I like the tv Osferth better than the book one too.

Not even Brida and Aelswith? Is Hild in the books?

[SharonH58]

I think Brida is in the beginning some (i can't remember) and she was in the last one I read which I think was around book 11 but I am not sure of that.   He and HIld have sex.

[theschnauzers]

Big news coming from London Comic Con

Although the upcoming fifth season of The Last Kingdom will be its last, star and executive producer Alexander Dreymon announced this weekend that the producers and Netflix have agreed to a film/special “Seven Kings Must Die” to complete the story of Uthred. Alexander will serve as one of the executive producers of the project. While the five seasons of the series were based on the first ten books of the “Saxon Stories” that were in print at the time the series first aired, three more novels were published, finishing the book story, and it’s fair to assume the new film project will incorporate the remaining three novels. Filming will begin in early 2022.

[supposebly]

Season 5 Trailer: I'm somewhat unhappy about this. It seems like Brida is going to be the bad guy. Still, I can't wait!

The Last Kingdom season 5

[CountryGirl]

I am so over Brida. But happy the show is coming back for a final season. 

[FnkyChkn34]

I've watched the first two episodes - really good so far!  

Question: 

Spoiler

What does Aethelfled have?  Breast cancer?  Skin cancer?

 

[LGraves65]

11 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I've watched the first two episodes - really good so far!  

Question: 

  Hide contents

What does Aethelfled have?  Breast cancer?  Skin cancer?

 

I think breast cancer.

[FnkyChkn34]

"The Last Kingdom, Season 5: The One Where Everyone Dies"

I have 3 episodes left, and we're running out of characters...