Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[auntlada]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

^^^. They say there's usually a method behind the madness. Sounds as though your father was just trying to be protective of you. He'd seen to much to be comfortable with putting you at risk. Sounds like he loved you. 

He did. My parents drove me crazy sometimes, but reading the stories of everyone here makes me realize how lucky I am.

[theredhead77]

14 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

Maybe this belongs in the pet peeves thread, but parents who have that mindset, that their grown-ass daughter is still a "little girl" that they need to protect, bug the hell out of me, in large part because it seems fairly common with daughters and uncommon with sons. When I said I thought the comment was telling, I meant that it indicates there is a desire, whether conscious or subconscious, to still have the same kind of control over the daughter's actions at age 38 as the father had when the daughter was 12 or so. I don't think it is healthy for anyone involved when parents think they can tell their adult children what to do, where to go, etc.  I understand some daughters may be comfortable with or even welcome that protective mindset, but had either of my parents made a comment to me after I reached adulthood that "they wouldn't stop me" from moving  somewhere, I would have politely reminded them that where I live and what I do are my decisions to make, not theirs. 

Oh, I have no doubt they would still love that sort of control, or would have if they remembered they used to have it. I didn't fully break "free" of my mom's "control" until my mid-20s and she (they) did a lot of fucked up things to try and hinder my "launch" to independance. It's been nearly 20 years since then and we have a decent relationship now.

On the flip side, I recognize that they are my parents and they will worry, regardless of how old they think I am.

[Bastet]

35 minutes ago, auntlada said:

My parents drove me crazy sometimes, but reading the stories of everyone here makes me realize how lucky I am.

Same here; this thread has been a good perspective check for me.  It doesn't mean the things my parents do that aggravate me aren't annoying or wrong, just that those actions from people who have always made clear they love, value, and are proud of me should be dealt with in that context.  I think I usually do, but it's a good reminder.

[Moose135]

50 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

parents who have that mindset, that their grown-ass daughter is still a "little girl" that they need to protect, bug the hell out of me, in large part because it seems fairly common with daughters and uncommon with sons.

In my 50s, and when I go over to visit, if it's a cold day but I left my jacket in the car because I'm parked in the driveway, my mother will still ask me "Where's your coat? It's cold out!"

[Mindthinkr]

For those of us that are parents...we know we parents are for life. I've definitely had to change my relationship with my daughter over the years to fit our changes and our growth. Still I'll never stop being her Mom. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Mindthinkr
Darn autocorrect

[backformore]

ANother crazy parent story: 

I moved out at 18, was completely self-supporting. 

When I was getting married, I had 4 days between my apartment lease being up and my wedding. I asked my parents if I could stay in the extra bedroom in their house for those 4 days.  They agreed, and my mom decided she had to re-decorate the room, since I was "moving back home."  SHe asked me what color curtains I wanted in my "new room".  I said I didn't need curtains, I wasn't going to  be there long.  Her response :   "You never know."  

Two nights before my wedding, my mom kept me up until 2 AM telling me how unhappy she was with my dad and how she never should have married him, and that she didn't want me to make the same mistake she did.  

[Hanahope]

I just found out this week that my husband has no interest whatsoever in ever going on a cruise.  I had found out that when I deposit my timeshare week to RCI, I can use the points for a cruise, and had suggested that one year when his parents visit, we could do a cruise somewhere instead of the usual timeshare rental/exchange (where we still have to cook food, figure out activities to do with our kids, etc.) .  I thought a cruise would be a nice change, allow us to visit some different places, have activities that the kids can do on their own while we do something else, and no one would have to cook.  But my husband shot that idea down.

This really disappointed me.  For 20 years, I've wanted to go since I refused my parents offer to take me on an Alaskan cruise when I was in college (no, I wanted to work and earn money - boy was I stupid).  I did go on one short cruise to Esenada 25 years ago, and it was fun.  And these days, cruise ships have a lot more stuff to do (and yeah, more expensive too if you choose a specialty restaurant or other upgrades).  I thought it would be great fun to do a family cruise, but apparently that is not in the cards.

So my plan is that we have a friend couple and my husband and the couple's husband have talked about doing a Macchu Piccu hiking trip, something that I certainly can't do (as much as i'd love to see Macchu Piccu - i have no desire to "camp" or hike).  So if the guys go and do that, I'll suggest that me and the wife do the Alaskan cruise at around the same time (and take the kids too).

[Spunkygal]

@Hanahope, I used to reject the notion of cruises until a group of gal pals coerced me into the Alaska cruise. It was fabulous! There is not one thing I would have changed. And although I am no spring chicken, it was not a boat filled with the geriatric set. It was a wide range of ages. The level of service was impressive and the beauty of Alaska was breathtaking. I wish your husband would reconsider but I hope you do go even if he does not. I would do it again.

alao, spend the extra money for a cabin with a balcony. You will see lots of whales from your balcony!!

Edited October 6, 2017 by Spunkygal

[MrSmith]

On 9/14/2017 at 9:17 PM, walnutqueen said:

Wish I knew how to create a Poll but here are the shrink questions, for all you Showtime deprived masses ... And your answers will not be collated or collected.  No record.

- So, when you were a child, did a parent or adult ever swear to you, yell at you, or make you feel like you would be physically hurt in any way?

- Did a parent or adult ever push, grab, hit or throw anything at you?  Hurt you in any way?

- Did a parent, or somebody at least 5 years older than you, ever touch you in a sexual way?  Or force you to touch them?

- Were your mother & father ever divorced or separated?

- Did you live with someone that had a drinking problem?

- Did your father ever abuse your mother, or hit her?

- Was a household member ever mentally ill, or did a household member ever attempt suicide?

 

TeeVee shrink opines I had too many stress hormones in my apparently very bad childhood.  So, I'm gonna die one day.  So is everyone who had an idyllic childhood.

OK. I want to play! Do we provide the answer to each question? Or do we simply say how many "yes" answers there are? It looks like the latter, but I figured I would ask so I'm totally on-board with doing this right. (And in case it's the latter, the answer is 6 of 7. What comes next?) Also, for the sixth question, that's actually two "yes" answers: my father abusing my mother, and my mother abusing my father. And it's two "yes" answers for #1 and #2, too; one for each parent.

Edited October 6, 2017 by MrSmith

[hoosier80]

God help me.  I may lose my mind.  At mom's for Thanksgiving Week (aka hell week).  Started off ok, then I decided to bust my ass and make her one of her favorite meals.  Of course, now, after she just about peed the bed this morning, it was my fault because there were some "weird" spices in the meatloaf.  Not that she didn't get out of bed fast enough.  All tears all morning.  I'm like let's move on and clean it up.  Nope.  Then she had to read out of an ancient cookbook how to make meatloaf.  Not making another special dinner.  Not happening.

So to clean the bathroom floor, she got a microfiber mop and attempted to clean up the floor.  I'm like great, pee water all over the floor.  Oh it gets it up. Yes, but no disinfectant.  Oh it's better than your Swifter.  I seriously can never do anything right.  I get it that putting me down makes her feel better, but it gets really old and hard to just brush off.

Every other minute she's crying.  I ask what needs to be done - first she doesn't want me to touch a thing, then OMG she needs HELP! She just told me that it won't be funny when I'm her age, because I'll be all alone.  Has to get in a dig that I'm not married, no steady BF, probably not in the cards.  I mean, how could it be, with someone like me?  

She'll be all happy tomorrow because the King (my sib) will be over.  He walks on water most days.  Then Friday, I get to put up the damned Christmas tree.  I get to hear how it's so bad I don't like Christmas (nor my sib).  It's again because I don't know how to do anything right.  Well, ya don't do it that way.  Don't you know ANYTHING?  Are you that STUPID?  Apparently so.  Sadly, I am yearning to be back at work.  

[Mindthinkr]

4 minutes ago, hoosier80 said:

God help me.  I may lose my mind.  At mom's for Thanksgiving Week (aka hell week).  Started off ok, then I decided to bust my ass and make her one of her favorite meals.  Of course, now, after she just about peed the bed this morning, it was my fault because there were some "weird" spices in the meatloaf.  Not that she didn't get out of bed fast enough.  All tears all morning.  I'm like let's move on and clean it up.  Nope.  Then she had to read out of an ancient cookbook how to make meatloaf.  Not making another special dinner.  Not happening.

So to clean the bathroom floor, she got a microfiber mop and attempted to clean up the floor.  I'm like great, pee water all over the floor.  Oh it gets it up. Yes, but no disinfectant.  Oh it's better than your Swifter.  I seriously can never do anything right.  I get it that putting me down makes her feel better, but it gets really old and hard to just brush off.

Every other minute she's crying.  I ask what needs to be done - first she doesn't want me to touch a thing, then OMG she needs HELP! She just told me that it won't be funny when I'm her age, because I'll be all alone.  Has to get in a dig that I'm not married, no steady BF, probably not in the cards.  I mean, how could it be, with someone like me?  

She'll be all happy tomorrow because the King (my sib) will be over.  He walks on water most days.  Then Friday, I get to put up the damned Christmas tree.  I get to hear how it's so bad I don't like Christmas (nor my sib).  It's again because I don't know how to do anything right.  Well, ya don't do it that way.  Don't you know ANYTHING?  Are you that STUPID?  Apparently so.  Sadly, I am yearning to be back at work.  

Boy, I sure am sorry to hear that she seems to be going out of her way to make you feel like sh#t. I think the only thing wrong you did was decide to spend hell week with her. 

Youre right. Some people only feel good when they are putting others (you) down. How sad she must be feeling on the inside. I agree it might just be time to stop trying so hard to make it nice for her. Do enough that you don't feel guilt for not having tried and let it go at that. I'm sure I would have loved your meatloaf. Oh just the thought of leftovers on a sandwich is getting my taste buds going! Yum. Heck, just that someone cared enough to make me one. Stop comparing yourself to the King. I have one of those in my family and sadly we didn't really become friends until our parents died. You are NOT stupid. You are stuck in an unfortunate situation. There's no making her happy so please work on your own happiness...not hers. You are worth it. 

[Mindthinkr]

I was reading in another thread and found this posted by @ratgirlagogo who is a librarian. It's a book called When You and Your Mother Can't Be Friends by Victoria Secunda. It might give you some insight @hoosier80. 

[walnutqueen]

2 hours ago, hoosier80 said:

God help me.  I may lose my mind.  At mom's for Thanksgiving Week (aka hell week).  Started off ok, then I decided to bust my ass and make her one of her favorite meals.  Of course, now, after she just about peed the bed this morning, it was my fault because there were some "weird" spices in the meatloaf.  Not that she didn't get out of bed fast enough.  All tears all morning.  I'm like let's move on and clean it up.  Nope.  Then she had to read out of an ancient cookbook how to make meatloaf.  Not making another special dinner.  Not happening.

So to clean the bathroom floor, she got a microfiber mop and attempted to clean up the floor.  I'm like great, pee water all over the floor.  Oh it gets it up. Yes, but no disinfectant.  Oh it's better than your Swifter.  I seriously can never do anything right.  I get it that putting me down makes her feel better, but it gets really old and hard to just brush off.

Every other minute she's crying.  I ask what needs to be done - first she doesn't want me to touch a thing, then OMG she needs HELP! She just told me that it won't be funny when I'm her age, because I'll be all alone.  Has to get in a dig that I'm not married, no steady BF, probably not in the cards.  I mean, how could it be, with someone like me?  

She'll be all happy tomorrow because the King (my sib) will be over.  He walks on water most days.  Then Friday, I get to put up the damned Christmas tree.  I get to hear how it's so bad I don't like Christmas (nor my sib).  It's again because I don't know how to do anything right.  Well, ya don't do it that way.  Don't you know ANYTHING?  Are you that STUPID?  Apparently so.  Sadly, I am yearning to be back at work.  

Can I adopt you?  Or at least be your appreciative relative?  I promise not to cry or pee in my pants, and you don;t ever have to cook or clean for me, much less do any yardwork (Gawd knows, I don't do it myself!!!).  You could just put your feet up (if you can get the footrest on my other big recliner unstuck), watch some TeeVee, drink some wine, or vodka, or coffee, and wait for the critters to come begging for food at my back door in the middle of the night.  NO stress, no relatives, and best of all, no judgement.  :-)

[BookWoman56]

Reading these posts reminds me of why I am perfectly happy to live a few states away from most of my family.  We talk as needed, but avoid the drama/tension that would result if I had to deal with some of them more frequently. 

[emma675]

walnutqueen, when can I come over and do you mind if I bring a medium sized rescue dog with me? 

[ratgirlagogo]

7 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I was reading in another thread and found this posted by @ratgirlagogo who is a librarian. It's a book called When You and Your Mother Can't Be Friends by Victoria Secunda. It might give you some insight @hoosier80. 

My mother and I were very close (if often in conflict) for most of my life, until the last ten years or so of her life when she decided for reasons I never quite grasped that I was her Mortal Enemy.  Since I lived on the other side of the country from her and Dad and couldn't afford to visit very often things did not improve and we were not speaking at the time when she developed breast cancer and died.  It was horribly painful for me and still is.  A lot to deal with.  The book mentioned above is pretty good as I remember though it's been a while since I looked at it and I did find it helpful.

Edited November 23, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[hoosier80]

Well, just as I thought, she turned her attitude around and was all sunshine and light for most of the rest of the day.  I really think now she's been bipolar a good part of her life.  Anyhow, she'd asked what I wanted for Christmas.  I had just a couple of definite things - a calendar and house slippers (same kind I've gotten at Kohl's for years now).  Hours later, she starts sniping at me, now how am I supposed to get those slippers, you know I can't get out?  I said fine, just make it all gift cards.  That's NOT Christmas, then switched back to bad mood again.  She'd made a big to do of watching a holiday special tonight, I reminded her, she called brother to remind him.  Since I'm back on the shit list (I said fine, just order whatever shit you want, because it surely does not matter if I like it or not - while I have to shop non stop to get what everyone else wants exactly), she's now watching everything BUT the holiday special.  That's her passive aggressive way of "punishing" me.  So I'm staying mum, playing solitaire and whatnot, just so over it all.

I probably should just say get whatever, and donate it and get a tax write off.  I really cannot stand the holidays.

I will have to look for that book.  

[AgentRXS]

Reading this thread has made me so grateful that I cut my toxic mother out of my life 15 years ago, and last saw her in passing 10 years ago. I don't regret it a single bit. When other family members say "Well,she's your mother, she birthed you, you should try to have a relationship with her.", I remind them of the simple fact that her and my biological father both agreed to put me up for adoption while she was pregnant with me, she opted out at the last minute,  he walked out of her life, and she dumped me on my grandmother for the most part. The few and far between years of my childhood that I had to live with her were the most miserable of my life. Whether my mother is alive or dead makes no difference to me. My grandmother is the closest thing to a mother figure for me.

[Mindthinkr]

@AgentRXS I'm glad that you had your grandmother. I have a few friends that are raising their grandchildren. It's because of parents with drug problems or they have better things to do rather than raise their own children. Selfish kids. One almost is breaking my heart because that granddaughter is manipulating my friend and she's trying to work 40-60 hrs per weeklong support this girl. She's in her 70's. I kills me to watch her raise an ungrateful child when she really ought to be living out her golden years. To me it sounds as though you came out of your situation a lot better and are a productive member of society. Kudos to your grandmother. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Mindthinkr
I'm tired and don't know if I stated my thought well.

[backformore]

The discussion of mothers and the "golden child" in the family reminded me of an incident with my mom (now deceased)

She was in the hospital after a fall.  My sisters and I worked out a schedule of visiting her.   Each day, we were bringing her fuzzy socks, lotion, eye drops, special tea - whatever we thought she would like, whatever she asked for.   A plant for the windowsill.  We all live fairly close, it was at most a 30 minute drive.   My brother was usually too busy to visit.  (Yeah, we all have jobs).  One day, my sister and I were at the hospital, and my mom got mail.  a card from my brother.  her face lit up, and she showed off the card, kept saying what a THOUGHTFUL son he was, and how much he cared, because he sent this beautiful greeting card.  I remember thinking that I could have stayed home and just sent a card - but she wouldn't have seen it the same way.  Nothing I did was ever good enough.  

[walnutqueen]

8 hours ago, emma675 said:

walnutqueen, when can I come over and do you mind if I bring a medium sized rescue dog with me? 

You, and especially your medium sized rescue dog, are welcome anytime at Casa de Deplorable.  I'm sure the doggie will make peace with the backyard critters in short order (through the panes of glass in the back door, of course).  For some reason, this old dump seems to have a calming effect on animals.  Case in point: just saw Li'l Possum feeding at one bowl, Mama Raccoon feeding at another, and a few feet away, a couple of my semi-feral kitties feeding at the third bowl.  Not a single hackle was raised.  Astonishing, I know!

[Petunia13]

@hoosier80 I know you don't know me but I appreciate your kindness and grace. My mom is unmedicated bipolar and it's so different than  in movies. It's like she can be so nice and creative and productive; but like more often ultra mean, cutting and full of despair. Like some of the meanest things I've ever heard. Like very fuck you and everyone-even  bleeding baby or hurt puppy "that's life" shrug type mean. 

Btw as I mentioned in this thread months ago I have family with mental issues. This is not responding to you @hoosier80 but in general if anyone is staying away from certain family members for the holidays due to abuse or safety issues please don't ever guilt yourself or allow anyone to guilt you! It really bothered me once in the past when someone guilted me on a board about cutting off my sister since she's family yadda yadda, but I had mentioned she's shot a woman and harmed people's pets so like, literally, it's bogus when people give trite advice to fit a persona. There are people who were molested by siblings and parents ect how stupid or oblivious do you have to be to shame them for avoidance? 

[Mindthinkr]

6 hours ago, backformore said:

The discussion of mothers and the "golden child" in the family reminded me of an incident with my mom (now deceased)

She was in the hospital after a fall.  My sisters and I worked out a schedule of visiting her.   Each day, we were bringing her fuzzy socks, lotion, eye drops, special tea - whatever we thought she would like, whatever she asked for.   A plant for the windowsill.  We all live fairly close, it was at most a 30 minute drive.   My brother was usually too busy to visit.  (Yeah, we all have jobs).  One day, my sister and I were at the hospital, and my mom got mail.  a card from my brother.  her face lit up, and she showed off the card, kept saying what a THOUGHTFUL son he was, and how much he cared, because he sent this beautiful greeting card.  I remember thinking that I could have stayed home and just sent a card - but she wouldn't have seen it the same way.  Nothing I did was ever good enough.  

Reminds me of the time my mother was hospitalized (now deceased too). My bro, SIL and I took 8 hr shifts so she wouldn't be alone. I had day shift. She needed jello, her blanket heated up, a bedpan, to be fed etc etc. The nurses told my brother that they didn't want me to return. That my mother was running me ragged and it wasn't helping her to recover. My brother was mad at me for quite some time (hey, I didn't refuse to take my shift or go) but he got all the kudos. When he cared for her she fed herself, got up to go to the bathroom and basically let him just sit there and work on his computer. SIL read or caught up on her emails. I was the worthless child for not being there and called her multiple times per day but sometimes no matter what we do we are never good enough. I've made peace with it. 

I think that sometimes they just take it for granted how hard we work or try to help them. Then the golden kid makes one small effort and sweeps in to take all the glory. Unfair? Yes. That's life. 

[hoosier80]

Well, I made it home.  Hallelujah.  Never so relieved.  Rest of the visit was ok-ish with Mom.  I got her Christmas decorations up, with the usual arguments.  I can't ever get stuff up right, not according to her standards.  She likes everything as flashy and gaudy as can be, using some old and tacky ornaments.  She was pleased with the outcome I guess.  She only has to do some minor decorating, like doing her flower arrangements. 

Then it was time to go to an event on late Saturday afternoon.  Golden child came over to drive us there.  I thought about bailing.  I should have, but at the time, I thought oh it'd be another instance of me 'ruining' things by not going.  Well Saturday was rivalry day for all college football.  My alma mater played the golden child's alma mater.  The school I went to is thought of as just bad/evil with golden child and of course, Mom (now that is - when I went there it was ok with her).  My school has dominated in recent years and I didn't gloat or even mention it - because I didn't want an argument, plus it's just bad form.  So I get in the car, golden has the game on radio.  WTH.  When his school was losing regularly, he wouldn't have the game on radio.  Now, that they're competitive again, he's on their bandwagon.  He was saying he was biting his nails, the announcers on the radio were saying how very nervous they were (their team was ahead momentarily).  I was like WTH, and stupid me, said something under my breath.  Golden whirls around, while driving and proceeds to have a massive meltdown.  I will pull this FUCKING car over now you fat cow and you can shove it up your fat ass.  I'm not getting you a present, I don't want anything to do with you, I'm tired of being silent, I can root for my school, you don't pay attention to your school, so you have no right to say anything to me!!  1.  I do follow basically all sports for my alma mater, I just don't share it with him nor Mom, 2.  How is it ok for you to express your feelings and not ok for me?  I merely said please pull the car over, to which he told me to shut up.  Mom just said 'shush'.  Awkward silence to/from the event.  Mom said nothing when we got home, which I figured she'd be yelling at me.   She was ok the rest of the time, thankfully.

Tonight, I get an email from golden child, saying do not get me anything, and how ridiculous that we couldn't talk.  He is the one who never says a word to me, or if he does it's to correct, mock, or chide me.  I'm not responding.  Very doubtful I'll go there for Christmas as it will be beyond awkward.  Just one thing less for me to do, except I already had his stuff purchased.  I'll keep it for a while, and if he doesn't change up, it'll be donated to charity.   I also thought of a great way to get him back; make a donation to my school's foundation in his name - as a Christmas present.  Do it at the last minute so he can't say a word.  Or I could pick another charity.  What could he say to that?

[Jaded]

Making donations to Planned Parenthood really sticks in some guys craw. I'd do that or give your brother full responsibility of your Mom for Xmas. 

[emma675]

hoosier80, maybe for Christmas this year you can give yourself the gift of peace by not doing anything with your mom and brother? Honestly, I don't know how you stand it.

[AgentRXS]

@hoosier80 I am so sorry that your brother and mother are emotional abusers. I do hope that one day you free yourself from that toxicity. You don't deserve to deal with their bullshit, and they don't deserve you.

Edited November 28, 2017 by AgentRXS

[BookWoman56]

@hoosier80, it sounds like both your mother and brother are toxic people a good part of the time, and I'm glad you were able to get back home without more drama. But seriously, ask yourself why you continue to spend time with people who seem not to appreciate anything you do for them and who are verbally abusive. In your position, I'd basically tell them you're tired of putting forth all the effort to go see them and be treated like shit, so if they want to see you, they can damn well make the trip to your home and behave civilly, or they can choose not to have any visits and just do phone calls, because you are tired of the same shitstorm every time you go visit. Ultimately, it comes down to your brother lives in the same town as your mother, and having made that decision, he is the logical choice to do whatever crap your mother needs done around the house and yard, etc. There is no good reason for you to wear yourself out by driving to her home to do stuff that she will only criticize anyway, and there is no reason whatsoever that your brother gets to express his support for his sports team but you can't do the same thing for your preferred team. 

I know it's hard to cut ties because they are family, but you invariably come back from these visits feeling angry and/or depressed, and my guess would be that if these people were not related to you, you'd have long since cut them out of your life.  It's very easy to fall into the mode of "But if my mother/sibling died tomorrow and we were on bad terms, I'd feel so guilty, so I will continue to tolerate their bullshit."  Consider this, though: What are you doing to your own mental and physical health by continuing to subject yourself to these high-tension visits, complete with driving long distances to and from where they live? 

[ratgirlagogo]

3 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

if they want to see you, they can damn well make the trip to your home and behave civilly

Uggh, no.  If she invites them to her home then she has to deal with getting them to leave.  Bad as her visiting may be that always leaves her with the option to just go and leave the aholes wallowing in their own shit.

[DeLurker]

11 hours ago, hoosier80 said:

I also thought of a great way to get him back; make a donation to my school's foundation in his name - as a Christmas present.  Do it at the last minute so he can't say a word.  Or I could pick another charity.  What could he say to that?

I'd say this is brilliant, but wouldn't bother in this case.

Since I am late to weigh in, everyone else has given all the input I would.  Each of these visits sound like they take such a toll on you - in every possible way.  I'll jump on the bandwagon and say give yourself a present for Christmas and not go this year.  Let Mom know early and don't bend to the metric ton of guilt that will be thrown at you.

If they weren't family, I can't imagine you would voluntarily spend time with them.  And if you weren't family, they probably wouldn't feel free to unload on you all the time.  If they don't value the relationship with you enough to tone it down for a couple of days or hours a couple of times a year and give a little bit too, then there is nothing there resembling a healthy relationship.

Imagine spending a quarter of the energy you put in to trying to please your mom and visiting various senior centers or other shelters.  The appreciation for someone to talk to would be humongous.

I'm really sorry.  I keep hoping that "this visit" will go better for you, but that hasn't happened.  I'm hesitant to advocate breaking off the relationship altogether, but you need a break from this pattern.

[MargeGunderson]

@hoosier80, it sounds like your mom and brother are not happy if you are there or if you aren't there, so you are never going to win with them. Be kind and make yourself happy by not going for the holidays. 

[Mindthinkr]

@hoosier80 I've heard a rumor that there might be some strep and a bad cold that will be delivered right to your door on the 22nd. Sadly you will have to call your dearly beloved family and bow out. You surely wouldn't want to expose them to such nasty bugs. Hmm. Then present yourself with a bottle of wine (whatever favorite beverage), get a few favorite eats and binge watch something you've been wanting to get to. Perhaps you have friends nearby that you can celebrate with. Please just don't feel guilty. Uninstall that button now. 

[BookWoman56]

6 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Uggh, no.  If she invites them to her home then she has to deal with getting them to leave.  Bad as her visiting may be that always leaves her with the option to just go and leave the aholes wallowing in their own shit.

Understood, but I was working on the assumption that her mother is unwilling/unable to travel that far, so there would be minimal chance of a visit happening. And if it did, the easy way to get someone to leave is to tell them firmly to leave now. If they've already been warned to be civil and are not, then there should be no hesitation to toss them out.  From my perspective, telling them that if they want a visit, they have to put in the effort makes it so there's not the physical effort of driving to and from the mother's home. And to be blunt here, I'd be worried about @hoosier80's ability to drive back home when upset after these visits end in a lot of tension and arguments. 

[DeLurker]

23 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

@hoosier80 I've heard a rumor that there might be some strep and a bad cold that will be delivered right to your door on the 22nd

If I get the sniffles I will gladly send you a holiday card wishing you good cheer.  I'm sure by the time my card gets there, the sniffle bug will have grown to something more ominous.

Or you might suffer a severe paper cut while wrapping gifts and then accidentally get lime juice on it (from squeezing limes for Tequila shots).  Clearly it would be unsafe to make the drive under those conditions.

You can offer to meet them for a late holiday lunch a few days later - somewhere at the halfway point between you and them.

[Mindthinkr]

4 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

If I get the sniffles I will gladly send you a holiday card wishing you good cheer.  I'm sure by the time my card gets there, the sniffle bug will have grown to something more ominous.

Or you might suffer a severe paper cut while wrapping gifts and then accidentally get lime juice on it (from squeezing limes for Tequila shots).  Clearly it would be unsafe to make the drive under those conditions.

You can offer to meet them for a late holiday lunch a few days later - somewhere at the halfway point between you and them.

Oh gosh, this was too funny! Lime juice/tequila shots LMAO 

[seahag50]

Quote

 

Gosh I feel like such a complainer but I have no one to talk to.  My husband is about the meanest person alive.  I went yesterday to get my hair done, I have totally white hair and my hair dresser put copper high lights in it...it is beautiful....he told me that if we go out I am to wear a hat he doesn't want anyone to see me.  This man every day tells me what I do wrong and how stupid I am.  I am 67 and retired...I look nice I am actually very pretty.  Everytime I get my hair done or buy myself something he makes a nasty remark about it but yet he sits in bed all day ordering stuff off ebay...knives guns hunting things..i am so sick of him.  He is a chronic pain patient and the past few weeks he has been bed bound.  This is worse than ever...its not because of the pain its just because he is hateful...he told me last night the $45 I spent on my hair was a waste of money....he said we need that money for food at the end of the month.  I quit cooking my last meal was thanksgiving...I have not cooked since.  He complains about that too...nothing I do is right...I told him I am no longer cooking and now he said good cause its been horrid...I am an excellent cook my grandkids love my food and so do the kids.  I keep a clean house even though I have to walk with a cane.  BUT he calls it a pig stye...I want to leave..but I don't own a car anymore we are down to one due to retiring...he took my keys away and tells me I have to ask for permission to drive his car.  I live in the middle of no where.....Don't tell me to just leave...I don't have any family and no one absolutely no one comes to visit us anymore.  I don't pray to God because I don't believe he will solve my problem.  I hate his guts...really hate him.  I stay away from him...when he comes down stairs I go upstairs...then he whines I don't spend time with him...I would rather have red ants eat me alive than stay with him.

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, seahag50 said:

Gosh I feel like such a complainer but I have no one to talk to.  My husband is about the meanest person alive.  I went yesterday to get my hair done, I have totally white hair and my hair dresser put copper high lights in it...it is beautiful....he told me that if we go out I am to wear a hat he doesn't want anyone to see me.  This man every day tells me what I do wrong and how stupid I am.  I am 67 and retired...I look nice I am actually very pretty.  Everytime I get my hair done or buy myself something he makes a nasty remark about it but yet he sits in bed all day ordering stuff off ebay...knives guns hunting things..i am so sick of him.  He is a chronic pain patient and the past few weeks he has been bed bound.  This is worse than ever...its not because of the pain its just because he is hateful...he told me last night the $45 I spent on my hair was a waste of money....he said we need that money for food at the end of the month.  I quit cooking my last meal was thanksgiving...I have not cooked since.  He complains about that too...nothing I do is right...I told him I am no longer cooking and now he said good cause its been horrid...I am an excellent cook my grandkids love my food and so do the kids.  I keep a clean house even though I have to walk with a cane.  BUT he calls it a pig stye...I want to leave..but I don't own a car anymore we are down to one due to retiring...he took my keys away and tells me I have to ask for permission to drive his car.  I live in the middle of no where.....Don't tell me to just leave...I don't have any family and no one absolutely no one comes to visit us anymore.  I don't pray to God because I don't believe he will solve my problem.  I hate his guts...really hate him.  I stay away from him...when he comes down stairs I go upstairs...then he whines I don't spend time with him...I would rather have red ants eat me alive than stay with him.

Emotional abuse can hurt as much as physical abuse. I'm very sorry that you feel stuck in this unhappy situation. Try calling the nearest domestic violence women's shelter. They might be helpful. Do your children understand what is going on? You might also consider talking to his doctor about his attitude and other options for care. Medicare might be able to get someone into your home to give you a break. I wish you better than living as you describe. 

[DeLurker]

2 hours ago, seahag50 said:

I live in the middle of no where.....Don't tell me to just leave...I don't have any family and no one absolutely no one comes to visit us anymore. 

He's essentially isolated you in every way and it seems like the tiniest statement of acceptance or approval has to come from him because there is literally no one else.

You've still got some fight in you - stopping cooking shows that, the lens you can still see yourself through despite his best efforts.  It sounds like he's been a miserable person for some time since you don't indicate this is a change for him.  He is taking pleasure from knowing he can still hurt you and make you feel bad about yourself.

You need to talk to someone as @Mindthinkr suggested.  We often have more resources or options available to us, but don't know about them or have been so conditioned by the constant abuse over time that we don't see them.

"Complaining" isn't what you are doing.  You're reaching out for some support and encouragement.  It doesn't matter how long you've been together or lived with this - what matters is recognizing the unhealthy situation and knowing that the only person you can control is you.  He's shown you who he is and who he wants you to be - a beaten down soul so he can feel superior. 

I know it seems hopeless, but it isn't.  Transitioning won't be easy, but is the situation you are in "easy"?  For me the first part of transitioning was really looking at all the things that I desperately did not want to look at and calling them what they were.

[Mindthinkr]

@seahag50 You always have someone to talk to or bounce off ideas on. The groups here are very supportive and if you aren't comfortable posting to all take any one of us that you feel ok about (I'm willing for instance) and PM us. You are not alone. I left an abusive relationship. It took a lot for me to do it but I did and I'm so much better now for having done so. 

[hoosier80]

Ok, so over the past few days Mom has called me (being very nice) well over 6 times.  Golden boy has put out new  lights for her today, telling her it was part of her Christmas gifts.  We'd always bought Christmas presents for her together, mainly because he has zero clue what to get her (outside of appliances - or the lights).  No email since the I will not accept any presents from you diatribe.  Mom said oh did he tell you about that (new lights)?  Nope.  I thought maybe she was digging for info, like I'd offer it up, then she'd tell me how it was just my fault, how I'd ruined Christmas now, too.  

An odd part of her calls - did I watch my school's game?  Oh, they played pretty well - never ever mentioned or said anything like this before.  I was like, oh is she feeling guilty, or trying to get me to start in on conversation re: school sports.  I responded with one or two words - very non committal, neutral.  I'm just being as neutral as Switzerland.

A friend had another take on Christmas.  She said I bet if you show up, golden boy will not be there, he'll be sick or have an excuse.  Yes, I bet that would be the case.  He might show up for Christmas Eve, maybe.  But that is when we'd do gift exchange.  It could get awkward; I can really envision Mom going off, and of course, it'd be my fault.  Really leaning towards not going.

I had suggested a few years back, very nicely, that we no longer buy Mom presents as a twosome.  He pooh poohed that saying no, it had worked out well.  He's now just sticking it to me, as he knows how to press my buttons, to be as mean as possible.  The one thing is that I can buy whatever I feel like getting without having his stamp of approval.  I'm trying to ignore his spitefulness, and just be glad I don't have to deal with him.

[DeLurker]

Has this scene played out in the past with Mom?  Where she figures out she has pushed you too far and then switches to a non-confrontational approach?

I'm still in favor of not going - in fact, this makes me think this is another reason not to.  The typical visits you know how it goes - Mom needs you to do x, y and z while you are there and everything is on her schedule.  You leave exhausted and frustrated.  But...at least it is consistent and you know what to expect (I'm almost always able to find a positive).  In this case, you can play out a variety of scenarios in your head, don't know which one will happen which leaves you on pins and needles (starting now).

Because I'm assy, I'd have said "Oh, I bet the lights look good.  Can you send me a picture?"

Frankly, between work and the chronic stressful visits to see your Mom, I think it would be fair to say that you are just too worn out to plan on making the trip this year and to the point where the stress it causes (even the anticipation) might be making it unhealthy for you.  You need to put yourself first some of the time.  Avoid the holiday traffic, sleep in, go for long walks, watch favorite movies, ...

[BookWoman56]

@hoosier80, I agree with @DeLurker that you are already worn out out and don't need to make the trip. You were just there for Thanksgiving, and IMO there's no reason to push yourself to go for Christmas, too. Do some things you want to do, rather than always putting what your mother and sibling want done first. Also, as far as the joint gifts from you and your brother to your mom, it may have worked in the past but obviously it's a source of contention now. If you cave and allow your brother to dictate that you will continue to do joint gifts, he will continue to walk right over your preferences. Fuck that. You are a grown-ass person capable of making your own decisions about how you want to spend your holidays and which gifts you want to purchase for whom. I understand the joint gift for a special occasion; the last time my siblings and I did that it was for my mother's and then my father's 75th birthday, where we had a major party for each of them and we went in together for a much nicer present than we could have afforded individually. But that was something we agreed to ahead of time precisely because it was a special occasion. In your situation, you should be able to pick out gifts on your own, without having to get some kind of approval from your brother. 

One of the few regrets I have about my adult life is that for years I almost always ended up traveling to see my parents for Thanksgiving and/or Christmas, rather than staying at home and having a holiday that was more to my liking. At my parents' house, these were full-scale celebrations, with insane amounts of work to get presents wrapped and a huge amount of food prepared. Seriously, my mother insisted that each of my siblings and I had to have our own favorite dessert for Christmas dinner, and these had to be homemade. My siblings who lived in town always made some of the food and brought it over, but the entire production always left me stressed out, followed by needing to leave a day or two later to drive the 650 miles back home. Those trips essentially took the place of a normal vacation. It meant that my daughter and I have virtually no holiday traditions of our own, other than what we've developed in the last five years or so when the annual treks to the parents stopped because my father died and my mother had to live with one of my sisters, and is now in an assisted living facility because of mobility problems.  Yes, I value the time that I spent with my parents and siblings, and am glad my daughter got to participate in them, but in retrospect it would have been better and saved a lot of mental and physical stress if I had done the holiday trips every other year rather than every single year, and sometimes twice in the same year.  And this is without there generally being any major drama or conflicts going on. So, as trite as it may be, you need to make some time for you. Stop trying to fulfill everyone else's expectations and start focusing on your own wants and needs. I'm not saying cut off contact with your mother and sibling, but figure out how much contact you are comfortable with and under which circumstances, and use that as your guideline rather than having them dictate to you.

Edited December 3, 2017 by BookWoman56

[MonicaM]

On 12/2/2017 at 1:09 PM, seahag50 said:

Gosh I feel like such a complainer but I have no one to talk to.  My husband is about the meanest person alive.  I went yesterday to get my hair done, I have totally white hair and my hair dresser put copper high lights in it...it is beautiful....he told me that if we go out I am to wear a hat he doesn't want anyone to see me.  This man every day tells me what I do wrong and how stupid I am.  I am 67 and retired...I look nice I am actually very pretty.  Everytime I get my hair done or buy myself something he makes a nasty remark about it but yet he sits in bed all day ordering stuff off ebay...knives guns hunting things..i am so sick of him.  He is a chronic pain patient and the past few weeks he has been bed bound.  This is worse than ever...its not because of the pain its just because he is hateful...he told me last night the $45 I spent on my hair was a waste of money....he said we need that money for food at the end of the month.  I quit cooking my last meal was thanksgiving...I have not cooked since.  He complains about that too...nothing I do is right...I told him I am no longer cooking and now he said good cause its been horrid...I am an excellent cook my grandkids love my food and so do the kids.  I keep a clean house even though I have to walk with a cane.  BUT he calls it a pig stye...I want to leave..but I don't own a car anymore we are down to one due to retiring...he took my keys away and tells me I have to ask for permission to drive his car.  I live in the middle of no where.....Don't tell me to just leave...I don't have any family and no one absolutely no one comes to visit us anymore.  I don't pray to God because I don't believe he will solve my problem.  I hate his guts...really hate him.  I stay away from him...when he comes down stairs I go upstairs...then he whines I don't spend time with him...I would rather have red ants eat me alive than stay with him.

My mother was in pretty much the same situation.  My heart breaks for you because I know how destructive this is for you in every way.  I understand if you don't feel that divorce or separation is an option.  After a long term marriage, it's not as easy as people sometimes make it sound.

I know you are venting and not asking for advice, but I do want to share this observation with you.  My mom never would stand up to her husband's bullying, but as I got older, I realized that if she did, he would have backed down considerably.  He actually needed her a lot more than she needed him, and it sounds as if it's the same with your husband.  For the most part, a bully is a very weak coward.  Just something to consider.

[seahag50]

I am very aware he is selfish and this has been going on for about 8 years now since I retired...I'm just worn out and tired of his acting out.  I think a lot of people have quit coming over due to him not me...when you sit and listen to someone constantly beat a person down...you just don't want it any more...

[Mindthinkr]

8 minutes ago, seahag50 said:

I am very aware he is selfish and this has been going on for about 8 years now since I retired...I'm just worn out and tired of his acting out.  I think a lot of people have quit coming over due to him not me...when you sit and listen to someone constantly beat a person down...you just don't want it any more...

You have to make a decision about yourself. That you are important and your needs are worthy of coming first. No matter what you decide I will always be here to listen to you and if in anyway that I can...I will be. As I told our before. Been there. Done that. Learn that it is ok for you to do what is best for yourself. He won't change but you can. 

[Petunia13]

Life is too short to live being miserable, abused, and in fear. I was a client of a domestic violence shelter myself. Please consider leaving or at least contacting one such service. They may offer counseling, therapy, and job placement. I don't think the situation you're in sounds like it will get better. Imagine the possibilities if you try...the freedom you'll feel. 

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, Petunia13 said:

Life is too short to live being miserable, abused, and in fear. I was a client of a domestic violence shelter myself. Please consider leaving or at least contacting one such service. They may offer counseling, therapy, and job placement. I don't think the situation you're in sounds like it will get better. Imagine the possibilities if you try...the freedom you'll feel. 

I would like to please just add to this comment with...And the hell you will feel if you stay. 

Hope I didn't step on your toes Petunia. If so I apologize. 

[seahag50]

OMG I just spent the last 30 minutes of my life hearing about how lazy and fat I am...I had my headset on but in the mute position.  He just got out of bed and came down stairs to get something to eat...and spent it telling me how awful everything looks and that this should have been done and that should have been done.  I never do anything right.  I don't think he knew I could hear him.  I just don't care I used to cry when this happens but I just sit and pray for a sunami or tornado or lightning bolt to hit him.  Never thought I would say I wont be sad.....I remember an aunt who had a bad marriage...after her husband died she turned into a happy lady and spent the rest of her life in pure pleasure....I wish some man who knew me would hear him say these things and punch him in the face....Rant for the day over...I'm sitting downstairs enjoying  a movie on my puter.

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:52 PM, Mindthinkr said:

I would like to please just add to this comment with...And the hell you will feel if you stay. 

Hope I didn't step on your toes Petunia. If so I apologize. 

I am not worried about job placement I'm almost 70 I don't want to work anymore...I'm tired of working been working full time since I was 18

[Mindthinkr]

Taking that first step to get out of an abusive situation is the toughest. I'm still here listening. 

[backformore]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:09 PM, seahag50 said:

Gosh I feel like such a complainer but I have no one to talk to.  My husband is about the meanest person alive. 

Seahag - sorry you're going through this.  You do not deserve it. 

Here's some not asked for advice: 

if this is a change in his behavior, either sudden or gradual (I mean, you wouldn't have married the meanest guy alive, right?) it could be a medical or psychiatric condition.  Some people get depressed, and instead of crying in their bed under the covers, they get irritable and lash out at others.  I suggest letting his doctor know, there could be some reason he's being such an asshole.  Also - antidepressant meds are often prescribed for chronic pain, and they help with that depression/irritability.  If he's on them, he needs his dosage adjusted. if he's not, ask the doctor about it.   they need to be taken every day, and the effect is more gradual, but it would be worth pursuing for your own peace of mind.  The irritability could also be related to other meds he's taking, or stopping narcotic pain meds.  

Meanwhile, take care of yourself.  put on some music that makes you happy, and refuse to argue with him.   Get out of the house when you have the opportunity, make plans with friends or family.  When he criticizes your hair, the answer is, "Hmmm, I like it, it makes me happy."  And nothing else.  Challenge yourself each day to not argue, just say OK to him and carry on with what you're doing. 

AND - figure out a way to leave if the situation doesn't   improve.

Edited December 9, 2017 by backformore