S02.E11: Fashion

[Athena]

Trendy clothes are cheaper than ever. That sounds great for the people who buy them, but it's horrible for the people who make them.

[bmoore4026]

Yeah, I've never liked GAP.  The report validates that dislike.

 

Ironically, NBC will do nothing about this in their programming.  They're still going showcase underage sweatshop made things with no shame.

 

Lastly, Model Dave was hot!

[90PercentGravity]

Shaming retailers won't make any difference if consumers don't care, which they don't. If people cared they'd put the stuff back when they saw the "Made in Bangladesh" tag.

[The Luvly Junkie]

Interesting piece on Fashion, though I will vouch I am a guilty fashion victim. My only excuse is that I buy more clothes in discount thrift shops. I will, however, chide the production team for the visual of how men are dressed; you're one to talk, Ollie-Scone, since you are one of the men who almost wears plaid (and/or gingham) every single episode. They didn't really need to photo a man's head when the visuals could've just used Ollie-Scone as their model. Also, I feel like this piece was more inclined on the dangers of supply chain managements in foreign countries. Perhaps there are specific people that should be given more credit for the troubles they went through.

 

And as of right now, I can confer that the Southwest Asia region hasn't been that lucky with industrial and natural troubles. 

 

Also, funny joke on renaming American brands on behalf of international managements supplying them, especially Banana Republic because I recall reading Ollie-Scone being a previous client for the brand back when he was on the Daily Show through his News Team Bio.

[dusang]

Lastly, Model Dave was hot!

 

I'm going to have to vote for Austin.  Although I found the "cheap food" argument a little funny because I've literally heard women talking about how they prefer to go to Walmart or Costco and get whole chicken or rotisserie chicken for less than $10.

[vibeology]

Shaming retailers won't make any difference if consumers don't care, which they don't. If people cared they'd put the stuff back when they saw the "Made in Bangladesh" tag.

 

Part of the problem now is that only 2% of all the clothes we buy are made in the USA. It's very hard for families to buy American when there is barely any American to buy. I wouldn't know where to go to buy things made here and I don't have the skills or the time to make things myself. I would love to buy clothes made in the USA (or Canada, or any other developed nation where I could be confident that working conditions were acceptable) but the only brand I can think of is American Apparel and it has its own problems.

[Hanahope]

Another reason why Americans buy so much clothing is not just what goes in and out of "fashion", its because the clothes are so cheaply made they fall apart after a year.  Same with shoes (at least the cheap ones).  I had to buy a whole outfit with shoes in Germany for a business meeting because of lost luggage a few years back and its amazing how well the clothes and shoes have kept together.  Yes the outfit was more expensive than I could buy in the US (though because of European airline rules, I was reimbursed a good amount of the cost - yay), but I would say its worth it just in durability.

 

 

AS for Obama not using the "g" word as President, while able to use it as a Senator, I have to chalk it up to having to perhaps modify one's personal opinions on issues when one becomes the official representative of the entire nation.  Sortof like how as a candidate, he wanted to close Guantanamo, but when he became President, it learned or determined that such probably wasn't likely to happen.  There are probably some things that he would like to do personally, but because he is President, he has to act or say differently for the good of the country.

 

That said, I do like how at the Correspondents Dinner, Obama said he had a "bucket list" that rhymes with "bucket."

Edited April 27, 2015 by Hanahope

[Sharpie66]

Actually, Obama is doing something about Gitmo. Apparently, Republican Sen. Ayotte is putting together a bill preventing any more transfers out of there to foreign countries that she's hoping will be passed before the end of this year's session. So, Obama is getting as many people out as he can before then. He's already moved out about 10 people last fall, and he's trying to arrange for a couple of countries to take upwards of 56 more, which would be the remainder of the prisoners who have been approved for release but won't get out unless someone is willing to take them in. That would leave something like 65 prisoners for a multimillion dollar facility that would be hard to justify its existence for so few people incarcerated within.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Sharpie66

[90PercentGravity]

Part of the problem now is that only 2% of all the clothes we buy are made in the USA. It's very hard for families to buy American when there is barely any American to buy. I wouldn't know where to go to buy things made here and I don't have the skills or the time to make things myself. I would love to buy clothes made in the USA (or Canada, or any other developed nation where I could be confident that working conditions were acceptable) but the only brand I can think of is American Apparel and it has its own problems.

Well, I work for Nordstrom and if you go to our website and type "made in the usa" in the search box it will bring up all the US made items. I am sure other retailers have a similar feature. Also, stuff doesn't have to be made in the USA to be made using ethical labor practices. In fact, there are many other countries that have better labor standards than we do: South Korea, Italy, Canada, etc. A lot of stuff "made in the USA" is actually made in sweatshops in Guam anyway.

 

Another option is Novica, which supplies an affordable distribution channel for artisans, allowing them to take their products to the market without being exploited. It's true that not much is made in the USA, but if someone really cares about being an ethical consumer, they have options.

Edited April 27, 2015 by 90PercentGravity

[iMonrey]

Isn't the bigger story that only two percent of clothing sold in the U.S. is made in this country? That's astounding. Just two percent. We just don't make anything here anymore because corporations are not only allowed to ship manufacturing jobs overseas, they are rewarded for doing so with tax credits. It's no wonder so many people are out of work. Conservatives who want to turn back the clock tp the 1950s Ozzie and Harriet era should be reminded that we had a lot of good-paying manufacturing jobs in the U.S. back then and strong labor unions, both of which are now almost gone. I don't think I'm going to feel any better if the Cambodian sweat shops have better working conditions, those are still jobs that have been shipped out of this country. Why don't we raise taxes on companies that ship their jobs overseas instead of lowering them? Make it more profitable to keep those jobs here.

[Jamoche]

Another reason why Americans buy so much clothing is not just what goes in and out of "fashion", its because the clothes are so cheaply made they fall apart after a year.  Same with shoes (at least the cheap ones).  

It's the Boots Theory of Economic Injustice, from Terry Pratchett:

A really good pair of leather boots, the sort that would last years and years, cost fifty dollars. This was beyond his pocket and the most he could hope for was an affordable pair of boots costing ten dollars, which might with luck last a year or so before he would need to resort to makeshift cardboard insoles so as to prolong the moment of shelling out another ten dollars.

Therefore over a period of ten years, he might have paid out a hundred dollars on boots, twice as much as the man who could afford fifty dollars up front ten years before. And he would still have wet feet.

I do not shop at Walmart, ever, but my stepdad does, and when I broke my ankle and he and Mom came out to help, he replaced my slightly wobbly toilet seat with a new one from Walmart that was already more wobbly than the broken one. Gee, thanks, just what I need when I've got no balance and absolutely cannot put any weight on my broken foot!

 

But based on that, I have to assume that Walmart boots come with holes already in them.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Jamoche

[Victor the Crab]

I'm glad Ollie explained what the First Amendment really was about. Too many people, like Dr. Oz, use freedom of speech as a shield to defend themselves from the absolute bullshit they say. He can be protected from the government going after him, but not from those that want him removed from his position at Columbia.

[dcalley]

I believe one of the clips shown on this episode was with the author of Overdressed: The Shockingly High Cost of Cheap Fashion, which I have read. It was not edited or proofread well, but I still think it is a good read. 

[purist]

I wish John had finished the report on 'Fashion' with some ideas on how to help the situation. He really just told us what the problem is, not what a solution might be. There must be resources for people who want to avoid buying unethically made clothing - at least give us the names of some organisations that are working to combat the problem! It's too easy to watch this sort of report, nod and say, 'Yes, it's terrible', and then just forget about it or decide you can't do anything about it.

[Wax Lion]

Part of the problem now is that only 2% of all the clothes we buy are made in the USA. It's very hard for families to buy American when there is barely any American to buy.

 

I usually avoid WalMart because of the awful way they treat their employees but I was desperately looking for a pair of rubber slippers not made in China (or Bangladesh but all the ones I found were made in China) and I heard about one brand that claimed to be made in the USA. The only national chain that carried it was WalMart so in order to try to encourage American manufacturing work... I was at a store that did a lot of undermine it. I figured I'd be okay if I only bought the slippers but all the stores I checked were out of my size.

 

Unfortunately, one problem with "Made in the USA" is that it includes things made in Saipan where American labor laws don't apply. Sadly, I'm pretty sure this hasn't changed.

[dcalley]

I wish John had finished the report on 'Fashion' with some ideas on how to help the situation. He really just told us what the problem is, not what a solution might be. There must be resources for people who want to avoid buying unethically made clothing - at least give us the names of some organisations that are working to combat the problem! It's too easy to watch this sort of report, nod and say, 'Yes, it's terrible', and then just forget about it or decide you can't do anything about it.

I can't vouch for it, but the author of the book I mentioned above has a (US-centric) list.

 

this list of fashion designers/brands abide by AT LEAST ONE of the following standards:

– Use of local/U.S. production

– If overseas production is used, products are either made under Fair Trade or Living Wage conditions or the company has a stringent commitment to improving the lives and wages of garment workers

– Use of sustainable materials, which might include reclaimed/recycled materials

– Have a company-wide commitment to lowering their products’ environmental impact

[Wax Lion]

Thanks for that link dcalley, I'll take a closer look at it and see what's available to me.

 

I had one minor quibble about John's Doctor Oz segment, calling him "the worst person in scrubs who has ever been on television" really requires that you've never watched The Doctors.

[90PercentGravity]

I wish John had finished the report on 'Fashion' with some ideas on how to help the situation. He really just told us what the problem is, not what a solution might be. There must be resources for people who want to avoid buying unethically made clothing - at least give us the names of some organisations that are working to combat the problem! It's too easy to watch this sort of report, nod and say, 'Yes, it's terrible', and then just forget about it or decide you can't do anything about it.

I think this is a problem with the show in general. He rarely has a legitimate call to action. It's a lot of shaming and blaming but no real solutions are ever offered. Funny hashtags won't solve these problems.

[dusang]

It's the Boots Theory of Economic Injustice, from Terry Pratchett:

 

I've heard that theory before but never so eloquently presented.  I know it to be true, so it's nice to have the perfect snippet to explain the phenomenon.

 

I think this is a problem with the show in general. He rarely has a legitimate call to action. It's a lot of shaming and blaming but no real solutions are ever offered. Funny hashtags won't solve these problems.

 

He did get movement on Net Neutrality but that was basically an easy fix because they were asking for comments right then.  On the one hand, I would like there to be a stronger "this is what you can do about it" but on the other hand most of these issues are major, entrenched issues within the political process / social norms / global economic structures and the only real "call to action" would be to actively engage in the political process over an extended period of time focusing on that particular issue.  I think the best we can hope for and expect is to make us aware of the problem and the small percentage of viewers who are sufficiently motivated by a particular issue will pursue it further.

[Hanahope]

It's the Boots Theory of Economic Injustice, from Terry Pratchett:

 

And it expands to almost everything the poor end up buying on credit.  Because they can't afford the initial outlay, they end up paying 3-4 times the amount of a product because of interest.  Rent a Center anyone?

[AimingforYoko]

You can argue whether this was a finger-pointing piece without any real solutions or not, but one thing you can't argue with: He was dead on in that you are going see some twenty-something guys in a button-down plaid shirt. My informal poll at work came out to 60-70%.

[dcalley]

Hell, the boots could also be toilet paper. City convenience stores might not stock anything larger than a 4-pack, but even if you can get to a store that sells the mega-packs, you might not be able to afford it even though it's cheaper per roll. Or you might not be able to wrangle it home on the bus/by foot.

[revbfc]

The show is still great, but it's truly difficult to top the genius of the Edward Snowden episode.

[LJonEarth]

I have a small question/nitpick about the last segment. That male outfit that he presented from the GAP costed something like $12. T-shirts alone from there cost $30. Just last week, I heard a guy trying to return some ill-fitting pants. He comment that he'd spent $75 for pants that he can't ever wear again. Did I miss something? Were they all joke prices?

[90PercentGravity]

I think they were lumping Old Navy stuff in with GAP and just calling it GAP.

[possibilities]

I think I've seen GAP commercials featuring Amy Poehler and Julia Louis Dreyfuss, featuring cheap clothes. Maybe they have two tiers of pricing, the $75 jeans and the stuff they advertize in these bits.

 

There used to be a company called "No Sweat Apparel" which sold sweatshop-free clothing. I don't know if they still exist. I get a lot of clothes from Decent Exposures (www.decentexposures.com) which is a sweatshop-free and made in the USA company, but they only really sell casual clothing and undergarments.

[Totale]

There used to be a company called "No Sweat Apparel" which sold sweatshop-free clothing. I don't know if they still exist.

 

Sadly, they don't.  They sold an exact replica of Converse Chuck Taylors (indispensable for old punx who are too aged to change, of which I am one) for half the Converse price, and nice all-cotton no logo T-shirts, too.

[Sesquipedalia]

Although I found the "cheap food" argument a little funny because I've literally heard women talking about how they prefer to go to Walmart or Costco and get whole chicken or rotisserie chicken for less than $10.

 

 

This was my thought as well. I was with him until he brought up the food analogy. Many if not most Americans have no idea where their food comes from and will eat the cheapest crap they can find. Not to mention the untold suffering that takes place for both the workers and animals in the factory farm industry. People are just as likely to turn a blind eye on where their food comes from as their clothes, so that whole long bit really made no sense.

[Irlandesa]

And honestly, I don't think I've seen a rotisserie chicken at the store over $10 even though I've read that I should be paying $15 for one.  And I don't shopt at Costco or Walmart for food.  I go to high end grocery stores.

 

While I appreciated the analogy, I don't think it translated because people will shop for the cheaper food.