S03.E20: The Fallen

[BkWurm1]

OK, quickly. Since I assume Nyssa knows about the pit, Thea could use it because she was NEAR death, but Sara couldn't because she WAS dead?

Malcolm mentioned in rare cases it brought back the dead. 

[kismet]

Well all I've got to say is that was just about a perfect episode. Hours later, I'm still kinda reveling in it. It had everything that I love about Arrow in it. Good character interactions. Good TA. Stunts were good (only reason could tolerate FB being part of this episode). Predictable moments & twists I did not see coming. Moments that were funny, even if they were never meant to be funny. It was just nearly perfect. Stephen Amell hands down MVP for the episode. He brought the pain, the emotions & the sexy. Everything about his performance was just Amazing! :) The hospital & the jet scene had me in tears. Honestly, the sex scene was very very good, but the sizzler reel felt hotter. But both were very rewarding & enjoyable to watch. Trust me Im not complaining - I will take more those scenes anytime. 

 

The only thing that felt completely out of place was the flashbacks, but I think that is because they cut them into the most inopportune places. I loved them for the stunts & Tatsu kicking ass. 

 

Most Ironic Moment - When Felicity reveals her badassery by drugging OQ, but really what was her plan to get him out? Like Oliver, I loved her all the more for the rescue attempt, but seriously that was her big plan? I know (well I speculate) that she has more up her sleeves than that in future episodes. But hot damn, girl was not gonna let him go without giving it her all. Gotta give her props for that. Should have drugged the whole compound.

[calliope1975]

It occurred to me to wonder if Maseo was trying to commit suicide by Ra's by offering up his betrayal. I mean, this is the same person that killed a guy in a sparring session for not beating him. You know Maseo was hoping to finally get out of this crazy club, but Ra's had to be all, nah bro, it's all good. 

[kismet]

Well all I've got to say is that was just about a perfect episode. Hours later, I'm still kinda reveling in it. It had everything that I love about Arrow in it. Good character interactions. Good TA. Stunts were good (only reason could tolerate FB being part of this episode). Predictable moments & twists I did not see coming. Moments that were funny, even if they were never meant to be funny. It was just nearly perfect. Stephen Amell hands down MVP for the episode. He brought the pain, the emotions & the sexy. Everything about his performance was just Amazing! :) The hospital & the jet scene had me in tears. Honestly, the sex scene was very very good, but the sizzler reel felt hotter. But both were very rewarding & enjoyable to watch. Trust me Im not complaining - I will take more those scenes anytime. 

 

The only thing that felt completely out of place was the flashbacks, but I think that is because they cut them into the most inopportune places. I loved them for the stunts & Tatsu kicking ass. 

 

Most Ironic Moment - When Felicity reveals her badassery by drugging OQ, but really what was her plan to get him out? Like Oliver, I loved her all the more for the rescue attempt, but seriously that was her big plan? I know (well I speculate) that she has more up her sleeves than that in future episodes. But hot damn, girl was not gonna let him go without giving it her all. Gotta give her props for that. Should have drugged the whole compound.

[paigow]

Malcolm mentioned in rare cases it brought back the dead. 

The guys Maseo & Team Arrow killed aren't worth saving? Ra's invested a lot of time and money into their training...Throw 'em in the Pit and see what happens. 

[Racj82]

Damn, can Laurel not get shit on for one episode? She did nothing wrong. She's still a part of the show. It's not the end of the world. I just don't think she needs shade thrown at her every single time she says or does anything.

[wonderwall]

Okay I'm back and now that I'm less tipsy... This episode was solid. I know a lot of people hated (maybe it's because of the olicity of it all -- I admit I am a bit biased), but it was a good episode that focused on the non masked. I still wish there was more focus on Diggle and Maseo (they blew that scene away), and I wish we got to see more DIggle/Oliver moments. But I was happy with it overall. I didn't mind laurel lmao :p I didn't miss her, but yeah she was barely there so whatever. I still sort of wish Felicity and Diggle had a moment. Hopefully that comes next week. 

[benteen]

 

I am not at all liking how much Oliver is becoming a victim with no control over his life.

 

I'm hoping Oliver has a plan here but so far this season he hasn't shown anything resembling a plan.  He's been ridiculously naïve about a lot of things, like that Ra would just let him go home with no consequences. 

[apinknightmare]

 I didn't mind laurel lmao :p I didn't miss her, but yeah she was barely there so whatever. I still sort of wish Felicity and Diggle had a moment. Hopefully that comes next week. 

 

I just find it so strange that there's all this BIG STUFF happening and she's nowhere around. I mean, I don't mind it necessarily but I find it strange. Roy fakes his death and leaves and we don't know if she knows about this (I'm guessing no, for reasons, but who knows). Thea nearly dies and Oliver goes off to join the League and she doesn't say goodbye? Does she even know it happened until Felicity went and told her? They obviously filmed with her - she had a BTS pic from the hangar and she was in a still with Oliver. It's just so strange to me. 

[NumberCruncher]

Oliver just broke my heart in this episode.  From the moment he discovered Thea until the LoA unveiling, I just felt for him.  Kudos to SA for bringing so many layers to the character.  I know that people complain that Oliver isn't snarky like the comic Green Arrow, but really that's a bit of a blessing in disguise since the Arrow version of Oliver has been given a lot more opportunities to show real depth.

 

Poor Thea.  The girl just can't catch a break...she finally sheds her crazy-ass dad, becomes a pawn in Ra's game, and ends up losing her brother.  Hopefully she doesn't let Malcolm back in.

 

The Felicity/Ra's confrontation scene was really great as was Felicity ordering Malcolm around.  This is the Felicity I've missed seeing on my TV screen.

 

I know I'm going to get yelled at for saying this, but the sex scene seemed really rushed to me in the lead-up and the aftermath.  I agree with others though that it was more sweet than hot and I was perfectly okay with that.  

 

I don't care--that Felicity/Laurel scene was clunky and awkward as hell.  I'm not sure why they included it because it added absolutely nothing to the story.

 

Damn, the Oliver and Diggle bromance scenes get me EVERY TIME.

 

Tatsu is a complete badass.  Can we please get lots more of her?

 

Overall, good episode, even if the pacing was way off.  Maybe it's just me, but they could have completely cut out all of The Atom subplot this season and they wouldn't have had to shove so much into these last 4 episodes.

[TVHappy9463]

Excellent episode, pacing, writing, all of it.  Felicity was awesome, she was the boss. I could go on and list every scene, but I won't. Show is on a roll, hope they don't drop the ball in the next four episodes.  

[Actionmage]

Also, when Malcolm said he would make up for everything and Thea said that was impossible, I felt she was completely right!  His big defense was "I'm going to stay with you now."

 

Was I the only one waiting for Thea to decapitate Merlyn in that scene?  'Where's Oliver?' 'He gave up his life for yours, but it's okay: I'm here. Let me take care of you.' ::Thea slices Malcolm's head off his shoulders:: (as she's wiping off her short sword) 'You know? I feel like soup.'

 

Good to know that Nanda Parbat has a healthy sweatshop industry, cranking out a wide variety of home furnishings & accessories, weaponry and studded clothing.

All the more impressive since electricity seems to be non-existent.

 

Well, between training and actual jobs, the LoA are also master craftsmen and women! You saw how many showed up when Oliver and company showed up to the front door. The Priestess' people probably also have  a thriving mail-order honey business as well as all those candles! I can almost see the catalogue. I would also bet that  part of the proceeds go towards the Nanda Parbat Stooge Fund. Lazarus Pits ain't cheap!

[tennisgurl]

Maybe Amazons delivery service is just WAY better than everyone thought they were. 

 

 

Most Ironic Moment - When Felicity reveals her badassery by drugging OQ, but really what was her plan to get him out?

Remember, Felicity has seen movies! She knows a good hijink scenario. Or, if its really necessary, a shenanigan! 

Edited April 23, 2015 by tennisgurl

[Lady Calypso]

Stephen Amell was definitely the MVP of this episode. THIS is the Arrow I've missed. The focus on Oliver, with a healthy splash of Team Arrow, Diggle standing up for Oliver, Felicity being badass and doing things that Oliver wouldn't want her to do, little Laurel (and I actually didn't mind Felicity and Laurel's scene, because I got the impression that Felicity went to tell Laurel in person about what happened and just broke down; Laurel comforted her and gave her a hug, at least) and some really strong emotional scenes.

 

Felicity was back, and in full power this time! Season 1 and 2 Felicity, hi there! It only took Oliver joining the League to bring you back! I loved her scene with Ra's. I thought both did a very decent job, and I like how Felicity decided not to give up on getting Oliver out. I get why she drugged him and I'm mostly neutral on it but...I guess it did give us a great sequence of Diggle, Malcolm and Felicity fighting to get out of Nanda Parbat. 

 

Woo, that sex scene, though. Let me just say that I'm thankful they chose appropriate music, appropriate camera angles and let the scene play out for more than a minute. It was very tasteful too, so kudos. I didn't cringe through sex scenes like I usually do.

 

EBR and SA both can convey so much without having to say a word. Their relationship is just beautiful and I'm glad that we've gotten these moments to remind us about their chemistry. 

 

Poor Thea; I do want to know how this changes her. We know Malcolm isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so if he can truly be there for Thea and help get her brother back, then I'll at least try to put his past behind (not forgetting it) and accept his presence. Doubtful, but I'll at least try. That being said, SA and JB in the hospital scene was heart wrenching and I actually felt for Malcolm in that moment. I wonder if that was how he grieved over Tommy, or if he was more nonchalant about it. But damn, Oliver needs to stop losing people and this was the ONLY way I would accept Oliver becoming Al Sah-him (Al Saheem? I wanna spell it this way but apparently it's the first way). 

 

But I would have loved to see how Roy took Thea being LP'd. I guess he'll come back soon to get his reaction, but this is why sending him away is the wrong decision and bad timing! 

 

I honestly fast forwarded through the flashbacks. I'll go back and watch them, but I felt like for once, they should have just stayed in the present day. 

 

Yay for Maseo? But I actually hope that Oliver has to kill him to complete the transformation. I'm more than happy to lose him at this point. And, come on, Ra's sparing him? Really? It HAS to be leading to Oliver killing him as a final test. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by Lady Calypso

[chaos is welcome]

I'm hoping Oliver has a plan here but so far this season he hasn't shown anything resembling a plan.  He's been ridiculously naïve about a lot of things, like that Ra would just let him go home with no consequences.

I am with you here. I don't think it will happen, but I really was hoping/continue to hope for Oliver wanting more for himself. I kind of thought that was the point of the whole season. This felt so much like a repeat of last season, except instead of dying by slades hand he needs to become Ras instead of himself.

The music during the Olicity stuff was perfect, blake Neely continues to make this show for me. The chem between SA and go team arrow, as well as thea was out of this world. I haven't even watched the full ep yet (darn you bedtime ritual w kiddos), but the way Oliver can't take his eyes off Felicity as he's taking off his shirt + the tight embrace they shot from behind after the bra removal = everything.

The sad thing is that I still hate the ras plot.

I was expecting thea to be far less whole after her lp bath.

And last, but not least, Felicity was a bamf....drugging oliver in a last ditch to save his ass, ordering Malcolm around.

as a previous poster stated though, I wonder how we will ever get back to Oliver as the Arrow saving his city again...I'm not even sure how we get Oliver back to being Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

Yay for Maseo? But I actually hope that Oliver has to kill him to complete the transformation. I'm more than happy to lose him at this point. And, come on, Ra's sparing him? Really? It HAS to be leading to Oliver killing him as a final test. 

 

Ra's sparing him irked me NO END. Wouldn't killing Sarab for something Maseo did be exactly the kind of thing he needs to kill someone for, especially if he's trying to teach his flock that they have to completely shed the identity they had before in order to be a member? Ridiculous. I hope there's a reason for it.

[BkWurm1]

Complaint about Maseo.  I liked we saw a hint of who he was, but we'd just seen Malcolm and Co take down a half dozen guys.  Then they entered the Hot tub room and THREE guys pulled their swords.  It was nice that Maseo stepped in and took care of them, but I honestly feel like they could have handled them with or without his help.

 

. Serious question about the fireplaces in Thea's apartment: the fires were burning when Oliver took her to the hospital. And they were still burning when she and Malcolm were back in the apartment. Did Malcolm leave his just resurrected daughter to go light the giant fireplaces in the place, or were they just burning the entire time everyone was in Nanda Parbat? And if the second, how on earth is nothing in that place catching fire?

 

Probably a gas fireplace so it would just take a push of a button (or a remote)

Most Ironic Moment - When Felicity reveals her badassery by drugging OQ, but really what was her plan to get him out? Like Oliver, I loved her all the more for the rescue attempt, but seriously that was her big plan? I know (well I speculate) that she has more up her sleeves than that in future episodes. But hot damn, girl was not gonna let him go without giving it her all. Gotta give her props for that. Should have drugged the whole compound.

 

I think she was fully engaged with first fixing the Thea problem and then was going to work on the Oliver problem.  She ended the conversation about will they or won't they take Thea.  She got the Jet.  She convinced the hospital to release Thea.   Right there she was completely in charge.

 

It kind of felt like she thought once Thea was back, Oliver might have a plan of his own and when he clearly didn't, she tried something desperate.

[Carrie Ann]

The branding/brainwashing piece confused me too, but now I don't think we're supposed to believe Oliver was like instantly assimilated or anything, so okay. But the whole thing is just...why would I believe that Oliver would become completely LOA amoral darkside evil when even Maseo, who has apparently been at this for five years, is so easily swayed by his emotions? Or Sara? Or Nyssa? Or, hell, even good ol' Ra's himself with his tales of woe? I guess in that way, I'm glad this storyline will probably be over in 2-3 episodes, because it's just not all that believable that Oliver would turn dark and stay that way for long.

 

Otherwise, what's left to say? I've watched a particular 15 minute section of the episode like *mumblemumble* times at this point. (It's, ah, minute 34-50, if anyone is curious.) Felicity getting into that whisper-threat mode with Malcolm was outstanding, even better than the showdown with Ra's for me. EBR really was as great as advertised this episode. But, man, Stephen Amell. And his cry face. And his face full of wonder that he was really about to have sex with Felicity. He's the reason I'm still here with this uneven beautiful mess of a show, but on nights like tonight, I'm glad I stuck around.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Finally got to watch this one like 4 hours after it aired, so I'm typing this before reading the thread.  

 

Didn't someone who saw the episode early describe the jet scene as "cute"?  Yeah, Oliver talking about snapping that dude's neck.  Aww, how cute.  WTF?!

 

Wondering what LoA member was tasked with changing Thea into her Pit dress.  Poor girl was comatose AND some random stranger saw her naked.  Not cool.

 

Loved Felicity referencing the "Survive My Sword Prophecy."  Yes, it is as ridiculous as you make it sound, Felicity.

 

The love scene wasn't actually as hot as I thought it would be.  I think that my expectations were too high.  Oh well.

 

The goodbye scene with Diggle made me teary, I will admit.  "John, you're the best man I've ever known.  Whatever happens, you're my brother."  Aww, that was just lovely.  Then Oliver had to go and fuck it all up with that obnoxious "I just want you to be happy" crap with Felicity.  I wish he would stop saying that!  I mean, I like that he wants her to be happy, but she won't be happy without you, you idiot!

[Guest]

I do think this episode should have been without flashbacks, now that I think about it properly. There was just so much going on and so much to get through that cutting away to Hong Kong felt weird. And if they had cut it, we could have maybe had an Oliver/Thea scene after she's out of the pit. Aside from her not recognizing him, there was nothing more which I thought was odd considering saving her was reason they were even there.

 

But that's pretty much my main complaint. 

 

Didn't someone who saw the episode early describe the jet scene as "cute"?  Yeah, Oliver talking about snapping that dude's neck.  Aww, how cute.  WTF?!

 

 

LOL. I can only think the fact that she bought him a blanket and he actually covered himself over with it was the cute moment. Everything else? Naw son.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Guest

[foreverevolving]

I may by extremely exhausted (it's been a really long day) which tends to lessen my enthusiasm for pretty everything, but I didn't find the sex scene to be that hot and sexy, i've seen hotter scenes; the entire scene, from the second Felicity finishes talking, feels very disjoined, it felt like there were too many cuts, especially the one between felicity stopping to talk and Oliver removing her glasses, there was no fluidity to the scene. I don't know, i just expected more and something wasn't delivering. What I mean is.. the chemistry was there, but the cutting of the scene ruined it for me. A second watch is in order.

I thought the after scene was much more romantic, as well as the goodbye scene.

I have a feeling Oliver is playing one over Ra's.. it's just, he has to right? right?! the entire 5-6ish minutes (not including flashback which was boring this week), were very strong.

 

Oliver waking up from being drugged and instantly commanding the league assassins by yelling heel (because i heard right, right? he said heel?!- which lol) followed by "Al-.......obey" was extremely powerful.

 

poor disoriented Thea. WH had more acting strength in her eyes and face than Buckles had while comforting Felicity. Also that scene was... it would have been helpful if we had a prelude scene of Laurel knowing what happened to Thea as I think it would have helped the scene feel less out of place.

 

Didn't hate on Ray, he knows what he saw and realized where he belongs, I just wish.. as with Buckles, Felicity could have told him what the emergency was, the entire scene felt off because I couldn't stop thinking "Ray totally thinks his jet his being borrowed for some one on one time, even if he can tell it's an emergency.

Also the jet scene was adorable, when Oliver started talking about his visit to SC I was on the edge of my seat until i remembered MG or SA saying online Felicity still doesn't know Oliver saw her.

 

I was tossing back and forth giving MMV (sp?) of the week between JB and SA to EBR... JB totally won. I may have, or may have not (I have) had strong flashback to Ianto death scene on Torchwood, JB can open those water fountains like nobody's business!!

 

ETA: Also loved the scene between Felicity and Ra's (was I imagining or did Ra's actually smiled when she stormed into the room?), I know many dislike Ra's but i continue to like him i always say it's the quiet villains, the ones who act as if they have all the time in the world with a cool head and have nothing to lose, that are the most dangerous of all. Ra's is a man who has lived centuries, he has seen the world change, he acts exactly the same way an old person acts around a young one.. with an air of knowledge and seniority, and a large amount of patience which only those who have lived as long and have seen so much can have.

 

Also loved the scene 2 with Felicity, Dig and Malcolm talking over Oliver unconscious body and Felicity just taking control of the situation like the Queen that she is, and the impressed look on Malcolm's face.

 

I may edit this post once i'll absorbs the episode, I may rewatch it in the morning.

Edited April 23, 2015 by foreverevolving

[SleepDeprived]

So, how did Oliver explain Thea's injury at the hospital? Wouldn't the hospital be obligated to report someone getting stabbed straight through the chest to the SCPD? Also, that was some mighty quick surgery to stitch Thea back together and set her up in a private room. I would think the doctors would need to do some exploratory surgery to make sure that no other organs/blood vessels got nicked and Thea doesn't have internal bleeding before closing the wounds.

 

Although I'm absolutely willing to suspend my disbelief about that, because I really kind of loved this episode, but I wish they set it over a couple of nights, at least, before Team Arrow left SC and flew to Nanda Parbat. All they needed to do was let TA change clothes to indicate some passage of time in the hospital instead of wearing the same clothing they did when they said goodbye to Roy "last night" in show time.

 

Diggle continues to be so unimpressed with the LoA, even as they were greeted by the hordes of assassins in front of NP. I love him. And I loved that gut punch to Maseo about how disappointed Akio would be at what his father has become.

 

The flashbacks felt especially jarring tonight but Tatsu/katana sword is always great to watch. I want Tatsu to be BFFs with Michonne on TWD.

 

I know I'm going to get yelled at for saying this, but the sex scene seemed really rushed to me in the lead-up and the aftermath.  I agree with others though that it was more sweet than hot and I was perfectly okay with that.

 

It was both sweet and hot, I'd say. The directing and acting really struck a great balance of the romantic and sexy there. Kudos to everyone involved. And no one's going to yell at you. We're all entitled to our opinions here. I agree, actually, about the love scene being a bit rushed in the lead-up and, especially, the "morning after." But the intensity and genuineness between Oliver and Felicity in those moments totally made up for it, for me, so I'll happily handwave it.

 

I still hate Malcolm. I bought Barrowman's acting that he really loves Thea but all I could think of while he told her he could finally be there for her 'cause the blood oath was done with was 'Dude, you're still responsible for 503 deaths--504, including Sara's. Anyone sees you, you might still go to jail/get stoned in public (I wish). You're still a psycho mass murderer.'

[paigow]

Why is next episode not titled: "Revenge of The Fallen" ? 

[catrox14]

 

was tossing back and forth giving MMV (sp?) of the week between JB and SA to EBR... JB totally won. I may have, or may have not (I have) had strong flashback to Ianto death scene on Torchwood, JB can open those water fountains like nobody's business!!

 

YES I had the same thought about that Ianto scene. But even more I thought about the scene in s2 of Torchwood (IMO THE BEST season overall) when Adam has fucked with everyone's memories and he's freaking out about seeing his family. 

[kismet]

Okay I'm back and now that I'm less tipsy... This episode was solid. I know a lot of people hated (maybe it's because of the olicity of it all -- I admit I am a bit biased), but it was a good episode that focused on the non masked. I still wish there was more focus on Diggle and Maseo (they blew that scene away), and I wish we got to see more DIggle/Oliver moments. But I was happy with it overall. I didn't mind laurel lmao :p I didn't miss her, but yeah she was barely there so whatever. I still sort of wish Felicity and Diggle had a moment. Hopefully that comes next week. 

I haven't been to the sites that people hate it... But I can see how people would dislike it. It was the least Arrow like episode from a purely Arrow / comic perspective. And those who love that villain of the week catch em fry em, suit up again tomorrow episode, this episode was not it. And they lost their Arrow in the end, the new suit reveal was little anti-climatic but it still marked the end of Arrow as we know it. Ras stole the Arrow for himself.

 

Honestly though, everything I love about Arrow (interesting characters, tough decisions, consequences/actions, stunts, familial/romantic/friend relationships) was still in the episode even if it took place in NP & not SC. I mean we knew we were going down this path with Ras trying all season to get him to be the new heir. It was only a matter of time before we got an episode like this. I say we just embrace this wild ride that the writers set out for us in the beginning of the season. We all know that we will be back to Arrow/Green Arrow most likely by s4. Here's hoping they figure out something to do with the FB, because they did feel completely out of place this episode, they perhaps should have just kept everything in present time.

[BkWurm1]

This comment is strictly for science but I noticed something in my slow-mo rewatch of well, that scene (there was candle counting needed) and I was startled to realize that between the moment Oliver flips Felicity to her back and leans her against the pillows there apparently was a time jump because suddenly they are UNDER the red satin covers.  You only see glimpses of the coverlet but it is clearly over his back in the later shots and so unlike what I thought I saw (sexy times cutting to the fade after some very nice necking - very nice) they were MUCH further along with their interlude there at the end than I thought.

 

This concludes the science corner. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

This concludes the science corner. 

 

Thank you for watching. For science.

 

Because I was confused by him putting her against the pillows while he still had his pants on, and the...thrusting. I was like, damn, if she looks like that while things are still, you know, tame, imagine what's gonna happen when Oliver lets loose.

[lemotomato]

I haven't been to the sites that people hate it... But I can see how people would dislike it. It was the least Arrow like episode from a purely Arrow / comic perspective. And those who love that villain of the week catch em fry em, suit up again tomorrow episode, this episode was not it. And they lost their Arrow in the end, the new suit reveal was little anti-climatic but it still marked the end of Arrow as we know it. Ras stole the Arrow for himself.

 

Honestly though, everything I love about Arrow (interesting characters, tough decisions, consequences/actions, stunts, familial/romantic/friend relationships) was still in the episode even if it took place in NP & not SC. I mean we knew we were going down this path with Ras trying all season to get him to be the new heir. It was only a matter of time before we got an episode like this. I say we just embrace this wild ride that the writers set out for us in the beginning of the season. We all know that we will be back to Arrow/Green Arrow most likely by s4. Here's hoping they figure out something to do with the FB, because they did feel completely out of place this episode, they perhaps should have just kept everything in present time.

From skimming the comments on the IGN and AV Club reviews, there are plenty of people that hated the episode because they hate Olicity. Which is a shame, really, because as Stephen Amell once pointed out, if you don't care about Oliver's relationships, then you don't care what he's fighting for.

 

And yes, there's also a lot of fanboy rage about how the show isn't as action-y any more and has diverted too far from comics. Which only reminded me a) why I don't usually check out the comments sections on articles, and b) how refreshing it is to see discussions of the show here that doesn't always circle back to "because comics!"

Edited April 23, 2015 by lemotomato

[Password]

Yes I mean...can we safely assume they were having coitus then? In which case OMG!

I liked the Ray-Felicity break up (surprisingly). Particularly because Felicity was so hesitant in her actions towards him.

She was all "I never meant to hurt you..so the jet" (sorry had to get this in there)

I just can't make myself feel for Malcolm. This entire thing was literally his doing. He didn't want it to happen this way, well too bad it DID! He and Ra's just make me mad because Ra's had the exact same thing happen to him and he goes and does it to someone else. Break the trend Ra's.

[SleepDeprived]

This concludes the science corner. 

 

No, no, no. Don't conclude it just yet. Tell me more about these observations and data... I mean, the science is so fascinating and all the gifs on Tumblr certainly make it look even more fascinating. Heh.

 

About the Lazarus Pit, how deep is that thing? Is it a bottomless pit? Like, where did the ropes and Thea's stretcher go? I thought, for sure, it had a floor since Ra's looked like he was chilling with his feet on the bottom, and the waters only went up to his chest, the couple of times he's been shown in there. Not floating and hanging onto the ledges 'cause he'd sink down into a bottomless/deep waters.

[BkWurm1]

Yes I mean...can we safely assume they were having coitus then? In which case OMG!

 

 

 

Yes oh yes oh yes!

 

The steam factor has gone up SEVERAL notches on my subsequent (scientific) rewatches.  About 15 seconds of steamy steam steam. 

 

Honestly I was dead gone on what I thought was a little neck noshing but all the um...ahem, rocking and blissed out faces make a great deal more sense now.

 

And everyone must know by now just how much I like this show to make sense.  ;)

Edited April 23, 2015 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

As much as they are saying the Olicity sex scene was super explicit....I think the sex scenes in Supernatural in s4 were way more graphic and sexual. This was beautiful and IMO reflected the love between Oliver and Felicity and I appreciated how it was done.

[BkWurm1]

No, no, no. Don't conclude it just yet. Tell me more about these observations and data... I mean, the science is so fascinating and all the gifs on Tumblr certainly make it look even more fascinating. Heh.

 

About the Lazarus Pit, how deep is that thing? Is it a bottomless pit?

It's a deep pit.  Very deep.  And hot.  And wet.  Very wet.

Edited April 23, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

So, how did Oliver explain Thea's injury at the hospital? Wouldn't the hospital be obligated to report someone getting stabbed straight through the chest to the SCPD? Also, that was some mighty quick surgery to stitch Thea back together and set her up in a private room. I would think the doctors would need to do some exploratory surgery to make sure that no other organs/blood vessels got nicked and Thea doesn't have internal bleeding before closing the wounds.

 

Although I'm absolutely willing to suspend my disbelief about that, because I really kind of loved this episode, but I wish they set it over a couple of nights, at least, before Team Arrow left SC and flew to Nanda Parbat. All they needed to do was let TA change clothes to indicate some passage of time in the hospital instead of wearing the same clothing they did when they said goodbye to Roy "last night" in show time

I don't think her internal bleeding was really the issue. They probably did stitch her up as needed. My assessment of the situation is that when she flatlined (which almost never happens in real life). She lost blood flow to her brain, thereby suffering a severe anoxic brain injury. With her blood loss, she probably already had some level of diminished oxygenated blood to the brain, which likely compromised her brain function. The damage to her brain probably was too great for her to sustain life off of life support machines, like ventilators. Depending on the extent of the anoxic brain injury, people can sometimes gain back some function., but it didn't seem likely in her case. Sometimes people are able to maintain basic life functions like breathing, but higher level functioning like cognitive thought is gone. The vital organs work but everything that distinguishes humans as people is gone.

 

The fact that they had her on ventilator in the hospital, during transport & were "sending her to Star Labs" to me indicates that it was an anoxic brain injury. There are many research institutes that try really crazy things to help restore brain function. But Star Labs, clearly was not a real option 1. because they are busy & 2. plot required OQ to need the LP. The ventilator indicates that she was needing assistance to maintain her breathing/airway. If it was a medically induced coma that was keeping her on the ventilator, I don't think the MD would have told OQ to consider other options. Unfortunately, it seemed like whatever injuries she had sustained there was no current medical procedures that could restore more function, which is often the case with anoxic brain injury. If it was just a matter of massive internal bleeding, she likely would have been pronounced dead in the hospital. My guess is when they took her off of the ventilator after the jet landed in NP which is when she went from mostly dead, to likely dead. She looked pretty dead in OQ's arms. But as she was very recently passed the LP was able to work on her but not someone who might have been dead for awhile. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by kismet

[raytch]

I really enjoyed this. I like how the show is picking up its' pace these last few episodes. Even the Hong Kong flashbacks were interesting and we finally got to see Maseo talk about his son. I loved his scene with Diggle. I was worried that Ras will ask Oliver to kill Maseo at the end, thank god that didn't happen.

 

Like pretty much everyone else, I loved Oliver and Felicity. Their interactions were flawless and just perfect. The sex scene was a long time coming.

Their relationship has been handled so badly this season I honestly didn't think it would recover (I think in episode 5 or 6, the one where Ray showers her with dresses and necklaces... the writers really destroyed everything her character ever was and replaced her with a hollow shell of just another girl).

 

I liked the Ray breakup scene. The only problem I had there was WHY COULDN'T FELICITY TELL HIM. I get that she doesn't want to hurt him, but I hate that up to the sex scene, everyone was telling her what SHE feels (her mom before, and Ray now). I would have loved to see her assume these things all by herself. I don't know if that makes sense... 

 

Ras Oliver was hot. When he told the LoA to drop their weapons because he is the heir of the demon and this he commands. Maybe I won't mind Oliver as Ras so much next season. 

 

Would have loved to see more about what exactly was going on with Thea. Though I'm sure we'll see plenty of that in the next episode. 

[raytch]

Actually it just occurred to me that maybe we won't be seeing any of the Thea stuff next episode. Maybe she went crazy for a day and thought her mom was alive and by the time she went back to Starling she was her old self again. That would not be cool.

I get that this episode that was supposed to be about her and Oliver saving her turned to being about Olicity and Oliver embracing his destiny. I really do. I just hope Thea still gets some 'spotlight' on what happened to her.

Edited April 23, 2015 by raytch

[kismet]

Gotta go to bed... All I have to say is this was the first episode of Arrow I rewatched in its entirety this season. And my love of it extends far beyond the Olicity love scene (which was the primo reason, I was pumped for this episode). Again the hospital (self-explanatory) & jet scenes stuck out as the best.

 

The jet was just so beautiful because it was all about Oliver opening up & exposing himself to the audience via FS. It showed the depth of his love for his sister and how he failed in the past & present, but still was always trying to do right by her. it didn't justify this dumbass Ras/MM story arc; but it gave you better insight into why OQ might have made some poor decisions this season. Thea really is the manifestation of his Identity crisis, more so than anyone else. He's trying to bring together who he was with who he has become. Felicity is more his present/future id crisis, not really theme of this season when you boil it down. But Thea is his connection to the past pre-Gambit Ollie & everything he strides to be in the present as Oliver Queen/Arrow. So this battle to save her in someway defines who he is. But it was never really about him, but rather his deep love for Thea that he was willing to give up everything. Its pretty impressive how much he loves his family. He said it before, but this mile high admission really made me understand it. That's some pretty powerful stuff. Also SA acted his ass off in it. 

 

But an underrated scene that I think is even better than the goodbye scenes was the escape through the catacombs. It had everything great about Arrow. 1. Badassery by TA; 2.Good stunt/fight work; 3. Humor (Thea was hysterical on rewatch; Felicity with the stick; Diggle just shooting in enclosed space) 3. Oliver taking control and being completely moved (again good SA face work) & yet mildly frustrated by his team's attempt, cuz now he has to find a way to get Ras to let it go. And Ras is not really a fan of Frozen :)

[BkWurm1]

And Ras is not really a fan of Frozen :)

Well after about the 4 millionth time he heard his assassins singing it, he kinda lost it. Do not get him started on the question of snowman building.

[Jediknight]

Well after about the 4 millionth time he heard his assassins singing it, he kinda lost it. Do not get him started on the question of snowman building.

He did however sing his own version of "For the First Time in Forever" after he met Oliver.

[fantique]

Hello Beautiful people. So Arrow pulled me back in again...

Seriously, this was a good episode. I didn't even care that it was choppy because the content was off the charts. Every character was on point. Everything I love about Arrow in one sitting. Man, I have to rewatch it again, and again, and again. SA, EBR, DR and JB were making me feel things. All the actors were just fantastic, in both timelines. When there are so many beautiful character moments like this, I don't need to think about logistics or plot holes. I can just connect. I really hope the writers finally get what's great for us about those characters. 

I braced myself for the Olicity scene thinking I would cringe the whole way through but despite the crappy editing, the feeling was there and they made sure that both of them where completely in character and finally honest with each other. So glad I didn't hate it. I am quite content after that for them to go back to normal after all the drama is over and go back to their casual "already like a married couple" vibe without making a fuss about them being together. At least that showed me the writers can write them well together without some BS compromise. So glad the Ray thing is done and over with. This fierce and in charge Felicity is way more engaging. I think that the fact that there is conflict (and then resolution) and with Oliver also allows her to grow and challenge him and herself,her limits and that's a much more interesting dynamic. The cutesy "hah, we are so quirky and awkward" thing was grating. 

I love this Ra's and Matt Nables, I love that he has quite clearly ran out of shits to give circa 2000, I love that he is so manipulative and so unaffected by everything around him. I am very happy with his performance. He really does feel like the head of an organisation of assassins that has lived for a century. He's got nothing to prove, all the time in the world and he will get results, not matter what.

 

OMG, it was so romantic and emotional and definitely felt like love more than sex which is exactly what I wanted. But yeah, that jet scene was…I had the same reaction like 'Um, is there more after the commercials?!'

The editing was weird this episode... more on that below.

 

 but I think my favorite moment of the entire episode was the “Damnnnn, you scary!” look Malcolm gave Felicity when she refused to take no for an answer about getting Oliver out of Nanda Parbat. Because she was totally scary, and I fucking loved it.

 

That was E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G! I was half expecting him to check if she had pencil to stab him in the eye with. He was clearly thinking "Uh oh... She's lost it, she drugged him, let's not anger the crazy person."

 

Good episode, but that scene when Thea leaped out of the Lazarus Pit made me laugh.

 

Not to go out on a limb here, so when will we find out that Felicity is carrying a mini-Arrow in her quiver.  </snark>

Lols to the frog jump. Let's not put that idea out there please, just in case...

 

Felicity was amazing (EBR killed it tonight). I think I love bad ass Bossy!Felicity more than any other Felicity. So glad the Ray chapter is closed. But that end scene really should have been between Felicity and Diggle.

SA made me cry and I actually had to turn away from him finding Thea at the beginning. Just couldn't stand to see him in that much pain.

Those two were amazing, together and separately, embodied everything I have grown to love about both characters and this was a great episode for both of them. The writers seriously need to write more of this stuff; it's too much of a waste. Just perfect, I didn't want to change anything in their performances. Ugh... It was so freaking good!

 

I wasn't bothered by Felicity and Laurel having a scene together because you know, she is part of this show (although it really was shoehorned in and unnecessary tbh). But I didn't like how Felicity was the crying weepy one and Laurel is the strong one with it all together. No. Don't go there.

It was fine but KC had a psychotically blank look on her face it was so weird... It wasn't even an "meh...I don't care" face, it was a "this program is not saved on the hard drive. Can not compute. Emotion unidentified" (imagine that said in a dalek like robot voice.) Exaggerating? Most certainly but that's my disappointment because I liked her in yesterday's flash episode. I didn't have a problem with Felicity sort of crumbling because it felt like she was coming to terms with it after putting on a brave face for Oliver (and maybe Diggle on the jet). I am less repulsed by the idea of those two being friendly, although I don't think they'll be friends friends but them banding together against the stupidity that Oliver brings about is fun. Also, I like thinking about Oliver to cringing because o them being close. I love Oliver but sometimes his discomfort is slightly hilarious (think baby Sara in the lair, the Team Flash and then Ray invasions).

 

If Olicity were written like this every episode, I'd like them so much more, all show and no tell, and dialogue that was meaningful and true to who they are as individuals and as a romantic couple. 

When Felicity confronted R'as, I really hoped he'd say, "Screw this.  You are the new R'as al Ghul" and bowed down at her feet.  Alas, I did enjoyed their scene.  It helped humanize him, and given the circumstances, was also really good advice.

I was so scared that Olicity = Felicity-pod but the writers did the best thing, they brought our Felicity back along with the official debut of Olicity! Yes Arrow writers, that's the Felicity we know and love. Strong, opinionated and schooling Oliver when stupidity bleeds out of his every pore. As soon as I saw the drinks and that she wasn't taking a sip...I knew. I can't believe I am cheering on someone being drugged but oh well. FINALLY!

 

I liked that Felicity was written as both love interest and badass in the episode.  Thought she should have taken the spear with her, though.

That is my favourite observation. It's true, it felt like her being more open about her feelings made her stronger, she was more awesome than ever. Yes: quirky, chirpy Felicity is fun and endearing but she won me over when she first owned Oliver and Fierce Felicity is BACK! I also thought she should've kept the spear but then again, I do think about what I would do if I were to plan on escaping a dangerous fortress more than is healthy.

 

5. Ra's, it's all very very sad that you didn't get a touching moment with your family way back when, but this is still failing to explain to anyone why you think Oliver is a good fit for the head of the LoA.

 

 

1. I loved all of the stunt stuff in the flashbacks - that car/truck chase was great - and from that viewpoint, I can see why it was there since the present-day timeline was comparatively stunt free, but the editing of the flashback scenes with the rest of this episode felt really off - the emotions didn't match what was going on in the present day at all, either as lessons that Oliver had to learn in the past to help him do whatever it was that he was doing in the present, or explaining how Oliver is who he is now. It felt really jarring, and it didn't help that although I've enjoyed most of the flashbacks, they have felt really disjointed this season - partly because they have been disjointed this season, and separated by other flashbacks. It's a problem, because even when the flashbacks are good, and feature Tatsu being awesome (she is my hands down new favorite character), as they were in this episode, I think they rob the overall episode of a bit of the emotional impact. As here.

I have a thin rationalisation to offer you on the subject of choosing Oliver. I think Ra's didn't like the softening up of Nyssa with Sara around and her being emotional over Sara's death was the final nail in the coffin. He then started to think about alternatives. Then he's served up on a silver platter someone who has honour, a code, is loyal but can get his hands dirty and will sacrifice himself for others. He gets info on Oliver from Maseo... He is aware that Oliver is trying (and failing) to be two people at once. And only a person content to leave their life behind would offer themselves up to him so many times. More evidence shows that Oliver pretty much has no life outside of being the Arrow, he is perfect for conditioning. I think he used the excuse of him not dying by his blade, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a test to see if Oliver had enough will to survive. Don't you think it's convenient that Maseo was right where he was needed to help Oliver survive?

I don't trust Ra's, I don't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. I am not even sure I believe his story about his family. Strange how it convinced Felicity that she would never get Oliver back and pushed her to try and smuggle him away. I got the feeling that she would've already lost hope if Oliver's not-goodbye wasn't so clearly heartfelt. Ra's didn't count on Oliver allowing himself to feel and that's what will ruin his plans. Even sparing Maseo is suspicious...I think that was to gain Oliver's trust by sparing someone he considers a friend and who just renewed Oliver's faith in him by "helping" them escape. Isn't this all nice and cosy? Maybe it's too out there but I like the idea of Ra's as the puppet master.

 

Agreed with the flashbacks, and that also goes for the rest of the episode, the content was great but they had obvious difficulty fitting it all in and piecing it together. I am also disappointed that some scenes from the preview weren't in the actual show... I guess the bastards just roped me into buying the dvd for the extra scenes. Damn it.

[looptab]

Well, there really is nothing to add. It was great.

Love, love, love the Olicity of it all. I was too kinda underwhelmed from the jet scene, but maybe just because of the expectations. It was good, and I get why SA liked it. 

 

A bit disappointed that there wasn't more to the Ra's+Felicity scene, as I expected/dreaded. Still, what came after made up for it. Apparently, the glasses removal was Stephen's idea- the director said it on Twitter.

 

Great Diggle+Maseo. Great both of them individually, actually. And Malcolm. Even if if I think the show wants me to forget he was the cause for all of this.

 

I wasn't expecting the drugging, actually I had just started rolling my eyes at the toasting. The next scene with Diggle and Malcolm calling Felicity crazy and then Felicity chewing Malcolm was great in its absurdity. LOL at Felicity's slippers :) But the escape scene was the high point of the episode in term of stunts, for me.

 

Great performances all around, WH, DR, JB, EBR, and ofc SA.

I felt for Oliver in every single scene, especially when he finds Thea and the one at the hospital. Poor confused Thea made me so sad. (But YAY, Felicity/Thea scenes). Too bad they cut the scene where Malcolm tells her she doesn't have to come back. 

 

Speaking of cutting, I wonder why did they cut the scene with Laurel at the hangar? I think I would have preferred that to the awkward hug with Felicity. I really want to know how that scene played out. Laurel arriving and telling him she's going too, and him telling her to go home?

 

I just find it so strange that there's all this BIG STUFF happening and she's nowhere around. I mean, I don't mind it necessarily but I find it strange. Roy fakes his death and leaves and we don't know if she knows about this (I'm guessing no, for reasons, but who knows). Thea nearly dies and Oliver goes off to join the League and she doesn't say goodbye? Does she even know it happened until Felicity went and told her? 

ITA. I said this before, but they really need to make up their minds about Laurel. She's either in, or she's out. I get that they didn't have much to do with her in Nanda Parbat, but at least show her at the hospital. She should have been there, as much as I am glad that she wasn't and as much as I bitch and moan everytime she's on the screen. I was gladly cackling when I realized they had cut the hangar scene, just to be flipped the bird later. NOT COOL.

 

Didn't someone who saw the episode early describe the jet scene as "cute"?  Yeah, Oliver talking about snapping that dude's neck.  Aww, how cute.  WTF?!

Seriously. She used words like happiness, fun, cute, to describe the episode. She said that the goodbyes weren't heartwrenching. I was a complete wreck throughout the whole episode, wondering "Did she actually watch this episode?" Not trusting her anymore, lol.

[ostentatious]

Good to know that Nanda Parbat has a healthy sweatshop industry, cranking out a wide variety of home furnishings & accessories, weaponry and studded clothing.

All the more impressive since electricity seems to be non-existent.

All that Pier One Imports overstock gotta go somewhere.

[LisaM]

Loved it. Felicity standing up to Malcolm and to Ra's was tremendous. I loved how she took charge. Oliver's despair in the hospital was very well done. I loved all of the Oliver/Felicity moments. They have great chemistry.

 

I usually can't stand the flashbacks but cheered for Tatsu. I figured that Akio's death was the turning point for both Tatsu and Maseo but to hear him confirm that the boy had died - to Diggle - was sad and foreboding. I hope that nothing happens to Baby Sara. I'm already getting bad vibes about Lila.

 

Thea flying out of the Pit was hysterical. I also like goofy Ray - especially when he is not with Felicity - so I hope he sticks around until the spinoff.

 

The Queen family and swords - not a good history.

[tv echo]

The Truth Shall Set You Free... Or Keep You Trapped In Nanda Parbat

 

This episode was chock full of people - including usually taciturn people - opening up about themselves and their true feelings:

 

• Ray brings out into the open the truth about Felicity's feelings for him versus her feelings for Oliver ("you don't love me because you're in love with him").

 

• Oliver opens up to Felicity on the jet about his secret trip back to Starling City, seeing Thea doing drugs, and killing the drug dealer to protect Thea.  (It was a meaty, emotionally nuanced scene for an actor, so I can understand why it's SA's favorite scene.)

 

• When Diggle tells Maseo that the League assassins are a bunch of cowards running from their past lives, Maseo opens up about holding his dying son Akio and lying to him that he'll be alright.

 

• When Felicity tells off Ra's, Ra's tells her that he once loved a woman and had children, but had to leave them without saying good-bye in order to save them from torture and death.  (That's when he tells her to go to Oliver and tell him she loves him before she has to lose him forever.)

 

• Oliver opens up to Felicity that he doesn't know how he feels about becoming the next Ra's, but that everything that's happened to him seemed to be leading up to this moment, and that he doesn't feel like he accomplished anything. 

 

• Then Felicity tells Oliver about all the lives that he saved, that he completely changed her life, that he opened up her heart in a way that she never thought possible, and (finally) that she loves him.

 

• Oliver tells Felicity that he loves her all the more for trying to save him.

 

• Good-bye:Oliver tells Thea that he loves her and to always remember that. (sob)

 

• Good-bye:Oliver tells Diggle that he's the best friend he ever had and that he's his brother. (sob, sob)

 

• Good-bye:Oliver tells Felicity that the only way he's going to be able to survive being in the LOA is if he knows that she's out there and living a happy life.  Then Felicity says that they're always saying good-bye, so she should be better at it, and then Oliver says "then let's not say good-bye this time", followed by a long... lingering kiss.  (sob, sob, sob)

 

• Maseo confesses to Ra's that he helped Oliver's friends try to escape with him, killing three LOA members in the process.  Surprisingly, Ra's doesn't kill him because he told him the truth.

 

• Malcolm tells Thea that Oliver joined the LOA to save her life (no more lying to Thea).

 

• Felicity tells Laurel that Oliver joined the LOA.  Felicity's crying in Laurel's arms was surprisingly moving.  Laurel was like the protective big sister.  It did highlight two things for me: how much more emotionally invested Felicity is in Oliver than Laurel is at this point, and how few friends Felicity has on this show.  She's not going to go crying to Ray after they broke up.  Diggle? He has Lyla and his daughter for comfort.  Besides, sometimes a woman just needs another woman's comfort.  I think I'm warming up to their friendship - shocker.

 

Things That Worked Really Well:
-- The Oliver and Felicity scenes (including the sex scene) were really well acted, and again showcased the naturally hot chemistry between SA and EBR.
-- I liked that Felicity didn't just meekly accept what Ra's said and obey him, but instead tried to save Oliver (she rebelled against Ra's words).  Her drugging Oliver to save him was a nice surprising twist.  A determined Felicity is like a bulldozer, even cowing Malcolm into doing her bidding and going along with the escape.
-- The final good-bye scene with Oliver, Thea, Diggle and Felicity was heartbreaking and powerful.
-- I liked that, during Oliver and Felicity's good-bye kiss, the camera panned until the bright torch light in the background was centered exactly between their bodies (plus nice use of background music - the same music played during their sex scene).

-- Thea's leaping from the LP like a feral cat and attacking Oliver was pretty cool.
-- Felicity's use of the term "mostly dead" was a nice Princess Bride reference.
-- Yes, Ray and Laurel work best on this show in small doses.
-- Seeing Oliver in full hooded, half-masked LOA garb and then zeroing in on his eyes... I shivered because he really did look evil.

 

Things That Didn't Work:
-- Every time they use the purple smoke signal (the LOA's stupid communication method), I just wonder why hordes of firefighters, police and curious civilians aren't converging on the meeting spot.
-- During the Ray/Felicity scene and then during the Oliver/Felicity on the jet scene, there was a lot of the guy talking and Felicity saying almost nothing.  This seemed representative of this entire season where Felicity had almost no agency but just had her life shaped first by Oliver's decisions and then by Ray's manipulations.  (The writers make up for this passivity later on by Felicity's taking charge during the escape attempt.)
-- The flashbacks still seem like disconnected and annoying interruptions of the present day dramatics.  I can almost view them, not as Oliver's flashbacks, but as Maseo's flashbacks, telling of Maseo's tragic journey from ARGUS agent to LOA henchman (possibly leading up to Maseo's heroic death in the finale?).
-- At the end, Malcolm tells Thea that he is free of the LOA now and can go anywhere, but he wants to stay and take care of her.  Um, isn't he still wanted by the SCPD for mass murder and destruction?  How can he stay in Starling City?  And it's curious how no one at the airport and none of the paramedics carrying Thea's stretcher recognized Malcolm.

 

Final Note:
I think that Felicity is even more devastated now than she was when she thought Oliver had died.  If he had died after he went to duel Ra's, he was still Oliver - the hero that he had become.  However, she knows that Oliver becoming a League assassin will cause him to lose his humanity once and for all.  Losing your soul is worse than death. (Plus, she now knows what sex with Oliver is like... so there's that as well.)

Edited April 24, 2015 by tv echo

[looptab]

This made me laugh:

Also, I just realized that I wouldn't have minded that final Felicity scene, had it been with Sara. [Trying to be rational and overcome my insane dislike of Laurel. (and failing)].

 

Just gonna leave this here..because foreheads.

[CabotCove]

Damn, can Laurel not get shit on for one episode? She did nothing wrong. She's still a part of the show. It's not the end of the world. I just don't think she needs shade thrown at her every single time she says or does anything.

 

Dead or alive, onscreen or offscreen, she EXISTED, that will likely always be her crime.

 

From skimming the comments on the IGN and AV Club reviews, there are plenty of people that hated the episode because they hate Olicity. Which is a shame, really, because as Stephen Amell once pointed out, if you don't care about Oliver's relationships, then you don't care what he's fighting for.

 

 

I think there is hating anything that has to do with relationships and then there is just disliking one relationship. The former group are the one who will likely be missing the importance of relationships to Oliver's mission & journey. I get being invested in action, but character relationships, platonic/romance are important too. You dont have to like them but at least accept they have a place in a character's life.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Conell

[tv echo]

Key Oliver & Felicity scenes from this episode (courtesy of Olicity Queen, other 3x20 scenes also posted on youtube)...

 

Olicity 3.20 Part 3 "Thanks for letting me be here"

 

Olicity 3.20 Part 6 Love Making #1 + "I don't regret a single moment" + "I love you"

 

Olicity 3.20 Part 7 "There's us" + So Married

 

Olicity 3.20 Part 8 Escape + "Thank you for trying. I love you all the more for it"

 

Olicity 3.20 Part 9 "Let's not say goodbye this time"

[jester]

Yeah so I'm done coming to this particular board for sure. The constant Laurel bashing is completely and utter ridiculous at this point. Felicity didn't go to Laurel to cry on her shoulder. It should not have been DIggle because that was not the point of the scene. The point was LETTING Laurel KNOW what happened and Felicity broke down because the man she loves is gone to her. She would have broke down with anyone. It was a 20 second scene and hurt nothing so everyone getting all panty twisted about it is just stretching to tear down a character for the sake of being catty or petty. It's just tiresome at this point.

[Pyramid]

Good episode. But still left me with the same two questions. Why have they not either locked up or killed Malcolm, and just what the hell is Ra's motivation?

[Genki]

Today at work agonisingly loooooong knowing that the episode was out there and I had HOURS left in the workday and I was trying not to spoiler myself much more than I already had. *Sigh*

 

I loved so much of the little things in this episode, I think it is OK that some parts was not as much as I expected, other parts were different and some were so much more.

 

I think MVP had to go to Stephen Amell and his fantastic portrayal of all the emotions and feeling bubbling through Oliver.

 

I thought Oliver would loose it tonight, and while there was righteous burst of anger at Malcolm and Maseo, and tears and emotions, SA played Oliver's mix of defeat, guilt and resignation perfectly. The closed off body language at the hospital where Oliver would not allow himself to take comfort in anything, not even Felicity's knee touches (Her version of the shoulder touch?).  Then to see him slowly start to hope when Maseo reveals the possibility of the LP restoring Thea. Next when he finds out Felicity will go with him this time to Nanda Parbat.

 

And then slowly, slowly he begins to open up to Felicity,  allowing a small forms of comfort like the blanket and to express his thoughts about himself and Thea (and admitting to murder) with Felicity, but still his body language was turned inwards towards himself and his voice was Arrowy as it had been since he found Thea. That scene wasn't what I expected and felt a bit underwhelming upon first watch, but I appreciate it showing Oliver shifting his perspective. He was defeated and rueful and humble but he had accepted the offer and made his peace and some of the burden from earlier was lifted from Oliver.

 

Even when Thea didn't recognise him yet recognised Malcolm and said she loved him, you could see Oliver was hurt but accepted this because Thea would get better, she and Felicity would be together helping each other out and it was almost enough.

 

I love how his voice become more Oliver leading up to the sex happening and less Arrow, until he changed it again to be Al Sa-him (sp?).

 

Right up until the "I love you" Oliver was trying to rely on himself and trying to accept that had to give up his home again, and then when he heard Felicity's "I love you", I think the hope that shone through was so much and the love scene was sexy but so emotional, and even if the editing was a little off or rushed I really appreciate it more and more on every re-watch.

 

The not-good bye, with the forehead touch after the kiss, I wanted more but liked it so much.

 

Felicity was awesome and I was surprisingly OK with the Ray break-up being Ray instigated, I think this was because Felicity was so beyond that point when she came to Ray for help. Felicity was going with Oliver to Nanda Parbat and Ray was not a consideration for her, I think when he started brining up their relationship Felicity had to halt and rewind herself mentally to be in that moment with Ray.

 

I like the threat to Ra's, Felicity know what she can pull together and the network she has built up. Also her (and Oliver) ordering of Malcolm around will always be gold.

 

And I didn't mind Ra's telling her to settle her affairs with Oliver in fact while I still think he was miscast (and as an Australian the accent holds no menace to me) I appreciated MN Ra's  more this week than usual. Maybe it is because I don't like Vincent D'Onofrio's portrayal of Fisk in Daredevil but really nothing Ra's did bothered me much this episode.

 

Even letting Maseo live made sense. Showing Oliver he can be merciful and that he does indeed have people that are willing die for him. Also Maseo holds influence over Oliver and can maybe help him adapt to the league ways and accept his new life better. 

 

Random thoughts:

 

I was even more amused than puzzled about Ra's high standards for atmosphere setting. Banners must be arrange just so to meet & greetthe new heir.

 

Laurel & Felicity felt forced, it would have been more natural if it was Laurel visiting Thea in the Loft.

 

Diggle is a Rock, rolling with both Oliver's and Felicity's crazy ideas and non-plans this episode, the man deserves a medal.

 

Oliver & Thea good-bye got me

 

Malcolm is still a mass murderer!!

Edited April 23, 2015 by Genki