S05.E01: The Wars To Come

[izabella]

those eye rocks on Tywin are soooo creepy!

SUPER creepy. At first glance, I thought they had left his eyes open. The eye rocks were the slightly (only slightly) less creepy option.

 

If I'd never seen eye rocks, I would have laughed if someone told me eye rocks are creepy.  It's really odd how creepy they are!

[SourK]

This is going to make me sound like an asshole, but mery killing someone while he's getting burned alive seems like small potatoes compared to other things this show has done in its season openers. Not that it wasn't horrible to watch, but compared to other things that have been horrible to watch, this seemed pretty mild.

[WicketyWack]

Dany kept the dragons in cages as babies. Why not refit one of those giant Meereen buildings or pyramids and make them a deluxe giant enclosure where they can get exercise, and sunlight, and are only let out after they've been fed plenty? Start a nice farm and raise cattle and sheep and goats to one day be dragon food. It's not like she doesn't have the resources. Chaining the dragons in a dark dungeon is obviously horribly cruel; why was it apparently her only option? Were they even fed? That is a decision of hers that I just can't reconcile with any other way the character has behaved thus far.

It told us Robert had freakin' 20 bastards. 

 

Heh. When I heard that, I thought, "only 20?"

 

The Cersei and Jamie scene was riveting—her wrath was palpable. She absolutely killed it in that scene. Oh, and her funeral hair? FABULOUS.

[Love]

I just finished a rewatch. I somehow missed that Sam/Gilly/baby scene the first time around. Oh how I wish I missed it this time too. I was wishing by the end of it that Gilly would be sent away. My God she was annoying. I have to confess to not watching a lot of Sam scenes (just not a fave of mine) but he just seems so, and I apologize for using this word....whipped around her. I know he's got it bad for her, but I don't remember thinking that before.

[LanceM]

Dany kept the dragons in cages as babies. Why not refit one of those giant Meereen buildings or pyramids and make them a deluxe giant enclosure where they can get exercise, and sunlight, and are only let out after they've been fed plenty? Start a nice farm and raise cattle and sheep and goats to one day be dragon food. It's not like she doesn't have the resources. Chaining the dragons in a dark dungeon is obviously horribly cruel; why was it apparently her only option? Were they even fed? That is a decision of hers that I just can't reconcile with any other way the character has behaved thus far.

 

 

Well considering how big the dragons are now I am going to say they are pretty well fed.

[wayne67]

It's odd how much my opinions on characters have changed upon watching the show after such a long absence.

 

Dany was at 11/10 in my ratings and has dropped down to a 7, she's a great strategist when it comes to blood and death but she's not that great at administration of a kingdom. Which was her stated intent in staying behind so she could practice ruling over 1-3 cities? and gain experience at leadership before heading off to Westerosi to reclaim her birthright. At least she knows she has a lot to learn, which is better than most of the rulers we see about. Unfortunately while I appreciate the sentiment of learning how to rule, the failure with the dragons makes me question why she hasn't asked any of her relatives back in Valeria for some "how to train your dragons" books. *sigh*

 

Tyrion used to crack me the hell up with his witty banter but went downhill for me with his endless nonsense with... his ex whose name I can't even remember any more. He's down to a 7 now... Let's hope he livens up the dull Dany practicing ruling over a small kingdom with some witty banter and some excessive drinking and whoring with Dario whenever he arrives in the city whose name I can't even remember.

 

Varys is down to a 7 too from 10, he's now a glorified babysitter.

 

Margery is still a 10 :P You go girl

 

Arya is still a 3 for me... petulant teenager with a hit list... It's like Karate Kid and Heathers all rolled up in one tedious package

 

I think the biggest surprise for me was Sansa, she's gone from a 3 to 7 ... I'm now actually curious what Sansa is going to do, her plot seems to be finally heating up after years of slow build up...

 

Cersei is basically the only -10 character left, she's so awful as to be compelling in a "you can't be serious, can you?' way.

 

I apologise if this post was barely coherent.

 

The episode progressed the plot forward by a tiny increment... The world has gone upside down and I'm liking Sansa more while liking Dany less. It's madness... It's GOT.

 

I really should do a rewatch of season 4 so I can try and remember all the other characters and cities...

Edited April 14, 2015 by wayne67

[Andromeda]

Well considering how big the dragons are now I am going to say they are pretty well fed.

My husband was convinced they'd been left to die, until he finally saw them again.

[DarkRaichu]

If I'd never seen eye rocks, I would have laughed if someone told me eye rocks are creepy.  It's really odd how creepy they are!

If you think those are creepy on Tywin, go back and see how they looked on Jeoffrey. Perhaps the Jaimee/Cersei tomb sex scene eclipsed how creepy these were on teenager's eyes :D 

 

This is going to make me sound like an asshole, but mery killing someone while he's getting burned alive seems like small potatoes compared to other things this show has done in its season openers. Not that it wasn't horrible to watch, but compared to other things that have been horrible to watch, this seemed pretty mild.

Agreed, but I thought the main problem with shooting Mance was Jon directly disobeying Stannis / his king as he wanted Mance burned alive

 

 

I miss Jorah Mormont.  Dany's new advisor is too much the rock star to suit my tastes.  Jorah made his more-than-fair-share of mistakes but I believe that he grew to respect (and love) Dany and gave her the best advice.  What do we really know about Dario?

 

I initially thought Jorah "Forever Friend Zone" Mormont never had this much influence over Danny.  However, she has been doing more stupid craps AFTER he left.  So yeah, letting her best adviser loose just because how it made her look has cost her dearly. 

Edited April 14, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[Fen]

I initially thought Jorah "Forever Friend Zone" Mormont never had this much influence over Danny.  However, she has been doing more stupid craps AFTER he left.  So yeah, letting her best adviser loose just because how it made her look has cost her dearly. 

 

This is one of Dany's big problems for me: her obsession with image over practicalities.  Her comment, 'I am not a politician.  I am a Queen', reminded me of Tywin asking Tyrion if he honestly thought the King was the most powerful man in Westeros.  

 

She in an absolute ruler, inflexible, and sees no virtue in politics and compromise.  In the end, the only reason she went to see her dragons is because Daario asked her how it would look to others if a dragon queen had no dragons.

[terrymct]

Like the character Iain Glenn played (forgot his name!). She needs him back.

 

His name is Ser Friendzone.    Just kidding.  His name is Jorah Mormont and he's the son of the previous leader of the Blackwatch.

 

 

Dany kept the dragons in cages as babies. Why not refit one of those giant Meereen buildings or pyramids and make them a deluxe giant enclosure where they can get exercise, and sunlight, and are only let out after they've been fed plenty? Start a nice farm and raise cattle and sheep and goats to one day be dragon food. It's not like she doesn't have the resources. Chaining the dragons in a dark dungeon is obviously horribly cruel; why was it apparently her only option? Were they even fed? That is a decision of hers that I just can't reconcile with any other way the character has behaved thus far.

 

Or just have them on long chains in a massive courtyard or out in the country where they can fly a bit and move around, but not leave.   I wonder, however, why they didn't just melt their chains.   Remember that dragon fire melted the stone in that ruined castle they showed last season.

Edited April 14, 2015 by terrymct

[DrSpaceman]

Odd result of this episode......I had Ton Loc's song Wild Thing going through my head yesterday and couldn't figure out why, then last night it hit me

 

Cersei is told, "you'll be queen" by whoever that was

 

Lyrics from the song :  She said, "You're the king"

I said well be my queen if you now what I mean.....

 

Not just the words but something about the tone and the way she said it as well.......freakin' 25 year old ear worm all day

[darkestboy]

Not the best opening episode we've had but certainly strong enough though.

Liked the Cersei flashbacks and the impending hints of her imminent downfall as well. Margaery scheming against her works for me. Interrupting Loras/Olyvar, not so much.

Tyrion and Varys going to meet Dany could be interesting as well in the next few episodes if it happens.

Sansa and Littlefinger make for another good team as well.

Didn't like the Brienne/Pod scene in this episode. Buck up, Brienne please.

Don't blame Mance. I'd rather be burned than follow Stannis anywhere ever. I did laugh at the way Melisandre kept staring at Jon throughout the episode though.

Dany's dragons are pissed, one of them is missing and Meereen is hard to keep a hold on. She might have to cut her losses fairly soon as well 8/10

[Puffaroo]

I miss Jorah Mormont.  Dany's new advisor is too much the rock star to suit my tastes.  Jorah made his more-than-fair-share of mistakes but I believe that he grew to respect (and love) Dany and gave her the best advice. 

 

And he looks magnificent in a kilt.  Rowrrrrr...

[CletusMusashi]

Margaery's interaction with Loras reminded me a lot of Jaime and Tyrion. Specifically, of that pilot scene, in the northern whorehouse.

[Lady S.]

I initially thought Jorah "Forever Friend Zone" Mormont never had this much influence over Danny.  However, she has been doing more stupid craps AFTER he left.  So yeah, letting her best adviser loose just because how it made her look has cost her dearly. 

Nah, I think her real misstep was not bouncing out of Slaver's Bay as soon as she stole the Unsullied and fried Astapor, her campaign to re-shape the world order has led her into a quagmire that I don't think anyone could advise her out of. She did hardly ever listen to Jorah, his real value to her was as "her dearest friend" but he could no longer even be that after she learned his secret. If he were there, he'd probably actually agree with Daario. If Varys can convince to actually return to the land she was born in and claims to be Queen of, then he's the adviser she needs.

 

Found this and just leaving it here.

(I actually like the weird eye rocks, in the same way I'm interested in the white walkers' bizarre severed-body parts art motifs. It's nice continuity with Jon Arryn in the pilot.) 

[Conan Troutman]

My sons says Jon and Daenerys are the Ice and Fire of the title.

 

I think it represents mainly White Walkers and Dragons, but Jon and Dany can certainly be the human leaders of the respective side. Of course how Jon could end up there is a total mystery right now, but we've got at least three seasons left, so a lot can happen until then. Fire could also represent the Lord of Light or the Red God, though that raises the question why Dany doesn't appear to be a follower of him. And of course whatever the hell the Ice God would be - could he possibly be related to the Old Gods? It would be nice if we got some clues this season.

 

But back to this episode. I could've done without Brienne/Pod, that scene really went nowhere and frankly, I don't see what purpose those two serve at this point at all. Reminds me a bit of how I felt about Robb and Cat in season three - I liked the characters just fine, but their arc was slowly dragging along on the road to nowhere, so I was rather relieved when the Red Wedding finally put end to that. Wouldn't complain at all if Brienne and Pod won't see the end of this season.

 

Tyrion and Varys can only be gold. Another great buddy cop road trip duo, this time with even more snark. Sing me up!

 

But my favorite scene has to be the Cersei flashback. Great casting choice and acting, the girl certainly had all the arrogance and the bitchyness down. Minus the broken bitterness of course. Her friend looked like she could've been from Dorne, with the yellowish color and all - maybe she was Elia Martell, during the visit Oberyn talked about with Tyrion in the cell? Not sure if this would add up timeline wise though. She could also just be a random courtier, it's not that her role in that scene was anything other than "give Cersei someone to talk to".

 

Anyway, the prophecy was certainly interesting. Let's take a look:

- You'll never wed the prince, you'll wed the king - checked.

- You'll be queen - for a time. Then comes another, younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear.

- The King will have 20 children, and you will have three - checked.

- Gold will be their crowns, gold their shrouds

 

Parts two and four are somewhat ambiguous. Golden crowns could mean the hair color, but it also could be taken literally - only Myrcella needs a crown now for that to come true, and Tommen isn't exactly safe. Golden shrouds, that could mean all three die while holding the Iron Throne - it could be only the King gets the honor of a golden shroud, and it looks like even Tywin didn't get one.

Now to part two: Cersei will be queen - for a time. Now, what exactly does queen mean? Married to the King? Or does she have to hold the Throne herself? And for a time? Cersei was married to Robert roughly 17 years, I'd consider that more than just a time. The younger one could be either Margaery (if she only has to be married to the King) or Daenerys (if she has to hold the Throne herself, aka be THE Queen) or maybe some dark horse (speaking of dark, Queen Sansa would be fantastic).

 

My speculative takeaway: Tommen will die sooner rather than later and Myrcella will follow him (both on the throne and probably also into the grave). Cersei will somehow seize the Throne without a birthright (if Tommen dies before Margaery gets pregnant, Margaery would be out of the way), only to be unseated shortly thereafter. This could take place during this season and the next and end with Dany taking over. But of course this could be a red herring or I'm interpreting too much, so we'll see.

[terrymct]

I think it represents mainly White Walkers and Dragons, but Jon and Dany can certainly be the human leaders of the respective side. Of course how Jon could end up there is a total mystery right now, but we've got at least three seasons left, so a lot can happen until then. Fire could also represent the Lord of Light or the Red God, though that raises the question why Dany doesn't appear to be a follower of him. And of course whatever the hell the Ice God would be - could he possibly be related to the Old Gods? It would be nice if we got some clues this season.

 

 

It also on some level can represent the pincers Westeros is in, fire threatening on one side and ice on the other.  I suspect that there isn't just one meaning, that the whole slew of these things are applicable.

[Constantinople]

On the subject of eye rocks, I think Tywin had the best and creepiest.

 

Jon Arryn's and Joffrey's didn't look like anything special.  They just looked like a body on a bier with stones on their eyes.  Perhaps it was the angle, because I mostly remember seeing them from the side and just a little above the body, as if one were standing right there.

 

Tywin's eye rocks, however, looked much more ethereal and gave a much better sense of the transition from life to the afterlife.  I'm not sure if it was the angle, there was a shot that was several feet above the body (although it's hard to image Tywin's soul headed upwards), or if the color of the rocks was a little different; or perhaps it was the lighting.

 

In an odd kind of way it echoed Loras's bumbling comment that Tywin was a force to be reckoned with, even in death.

[DrSpaceman]

I think it represents mainly White Walkers and Dragons, but Jon and Dany can certainly be the human leaders of the respective side. Of course how Jon could end up there is a total mystery right now, but we've got at least three seasons left, so a lot can happen until then. Fire could also represent the Lord of Light or the Red God, though that raises the question why Dany doesn't appear to be a follower of him. And of course whatever the hell the Ice God would be - could he possibly be related to the Old Gods? It would be nice if we got some clues this season.

 

But back to this episode. I could've done without Brienne/Pod, that scene really went nowhere and frankly, I don't see what purpose those two serve at this point at all. Reminds me a bit of how I felt about Robb and Cat in season three - I liked the characters just fine, but their arc was slowly dragging along on the road to nowhere, so I was rather relieved when the Red Wedding finally put end to that. Wouldn't complain at all if Brienne and Pod won't see the end of this season.

 

Tyrion and Varys can only be gold. Another great buddy cop road trip duo, this time with even more snark. Sing me up!

 

But my favorite scene has to be the Cersei flashback. Great casting choice and acting, the girl certainly had all the arrogance and the bitchyness down. Minus the broken bitterness of course. Her friend looked like she could've been from Dorne, with the yellowish color and all - maybe she was Elia Martell, during the visit Oberyn talked about with Tyrion in the cell? Not sure if this would add up timeline wise though. She could also just be a random courtier, it's not that her role in that scene was anything other than "give Cersei someone to talk to".

 

Anyway, the prophecy was certainly interesting. Let's take a look:

- You'll never wed the prince, you'll wed the king - checked.

- You'll be queen - for a time. Then comes another, younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear.

- The King will have 20 children, and you will have three - checked.

- Gold will be their crowns, gold their shrouds

 

Parts two and four are somewhat ambiguous. Golden crowns could mean the hair color, but it also could be taken literally - only Myrcella needs a crown now for that to come true, and Tommen isn't exactly safe. Golden shrouds, that could mean all three die while holding the Iron Throne - it could be only the King gets the honor of a golden shroud, and it looks like even Tywin didn't get one.

Now to part two: Cersei will be queen - for a time. Now, what exactly does queen mean? Married to the King? Or does she have to hold the Throne herself? And for a time? Cersei was married to Robert roughly 17 years, I'd consider that more than just a time. The younger one could be either Margaery (if she only has to be married to the King) or Daenerys (if she has to hold the Throne herself, aka be THE Queen) or maybe some dark horse (speaking of dark, Queen Sansa would be fantastic).

 

My speculative takeaway: Tommen will die sooner rather than later and Myrcella will follow him (both on the throne and probably also into the grave). Cersei will somehow seize the Throne without a birthright (if Tommen dies before Margaery gets pregnant, Margaery would be out of the way), only to be unseated shortly thereafter. This could take place during this season and the next and end with Dany taking over. But of course this could be a red herring or I'm interpreting too much, so we'll see.

 

 

I took the second part to mean she will hold the throne herself as queen for a brief period.  I didn't take that to mean how she was already queen with Robert.  I guess we are not sure if that means how she is now queen regent while her son is king since Tywin was killed OR if her other son now dies and she is the queen.  Either way, I think it refers to a short reign that she cannot sustain.

 

Which is completely believable.  She does not have the personality, intelligence or really any qualities that makes me think she can reign for long without her father's assistance, especially when there are multiple other factions now with large armies ready to challenge her role.

[Mz Anthrope]

This episode was pretty 'meh' to me, but it's a starter and I guess we had to get back into a groove somehow

 

To me, Mel asking Jon about his virginity had more to do with my suspicions that Jon's actually Ned's nephew - and Robert's son.  Or at least Robert's son.  And Mel is looking for royal 'jelly' and knows Jon is a Baratheon.  Now, if Stannis finds out, I can see him trying to kill Jon and Jon leading the Wildlings and those who favor him on the wall to victory. 

 

Tyrion and Varys - Tyrion and Bron reloaded?  I can dig that :-)

 

Agree with those posting they were happy to not see Bran or Reek/Ramsey.  And I found Gilly to be incredibly whiny and demanding.  Bitch - SHUT UP already!  Just give shit TIME. 

 

Was I the only one surprised to see the cowardly bald dude (who ran into the stores where Gilly was when the figting was happening on the wall) walking side by side with the dude who is a dick but showed bravery during that same battle (again, my apologies, but names are obviously not my friend this afternoon)?  Didn't anyone inform Head Dick that dude ran and hid from his duties to the wall?!

 

Dany is, for me, just getting tiresome.  Stupid choices and people dying.  And pissed off dragon babies.   Seeing the Unsullied go to the brothel to have his head stroked and sung to made me think some of them miss having mothers and are going there for some quiet mom time.  Just seemed (outside of her undress and profession) a very sweet moment.  Up until the throat slicing. 

 

And I am still wondering what happened to Hot Pie's bread for Arya. 

[Calamity Jane]

This episode was pretty 'meh' to me, but it's a starter and I guess we had to get back into a groove somehow

 

To me, Mel asking Jon about his virginity had more to do with my suspicions that Jon's actually Ned's nephew - and Robert's son.  Or at least Robert's son.  And Mel is looking for royal 'jelly' and knows Jon is a Baratheon.  Now, if Stannis finds out, I can see him trying to kill Jon and Jon leading the Wildlings and those who favor him on the wall to victory. 

 

Tyrion and Varys - Tyrion and Bron reloaded?  I can dig that :-)

 

Agree with those posting they were happy to not see Bran or Reek/Ramsey.  And I found Gilly to be incredibly whiny and demanding.  Bitch - SHUT UP already!  Just give shit TIME. 

 

Was I the only one surprised to see the cowardly bald dude (who ran into the stores where Gilly was when the figting was happening on the wall) walking side by side with the dude who is a dick but showed bravery during that same battle (again, my apologies, but names are obviously not my friend this afternoon)?  Didn't anyone inform Head Dick that dude ran and hid from his duties to the wall?!

 

Dany is, for me, just getting tiresome.  Stupid choices and people dying.  And pissed off dragon babies.   Seeing the Unsullied go to the brothel to have his head stroked and sung to made me think some of them miss having mothers and are going there for some quiet mom time.  Just seemed (outside of her undress and profession) a very sweet moment.  Up until the throat slicing. 

 

And I am still wondering what happened to Hot Pie's bread for Arya. 

Jon could be Ned's nephew, Lyanna's son, by Robert or someone else..... or older brother Bran's son by someone?   Is that what you meant?  The possibilities are so much fun.  

Edited April 15, 2015 by Calamity Jane

[Constantinople]

My sons says Jon and Daenerys are the Ice and Fire of the title.

 

I think it represents mainly White Walkers and Dragons...

 

It also on some level can represent the pincers Westeros is in, fire threatening on one side and ice on the other.

Doesn't that mean that Westeros

 

...is to be somewhere in the middle of that, kind of like lukewarm water.

[CletusMusashi]

I suppose the biggest down side of the episode was its lack of surprises.

Varys heading for Illyrio's place was what I  expected. Tyrion being a depressed wreck, the same. It was obvious that their story was going to mix with the Khalisi arc, and they're going straight to it.

Nothing new happening with Dany, unless you count the brothel thing. Which isn't that big a shock considering.. whatever's going on with Wormy and Missendei. Seeing one red-shirt Unsullied get killed wasn't particularly shocking. It's kind of about time, isn't it? Boots on the ground cost lives, and up til now the expansion has been implausible easy.

Stannis was saying exactly what I'd expect him to. So was Mance. So was Jon. So were Cersei and the Tyrells, Sam and Gilly, yadda yadda yadda.

A certain amount of predictability is an inevitable side effect of good writing. Because otherwise, you've just got people running around doing weird zany things that make no sense. But this level? A bit too much. I wasn't actually "beetle story" bored, but I wasn't excited, either. And to not to be excited by an episode of "Game of Thrones" is a sad feeling indeed.

Edited April 15, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Mz Anthrope]

Jon could be Ned's nephew, Lyanna's son, by Robert or someone else..... or older brother Bran's son by someone?   Is that what you meant?  The possibilities are so much fun.  

Exactly.  I really think he's either Ned's newphew by Lyanna and Robert or at least he's Robert's son, not Ned's.  The whole thing about 20 bastard children (and for some reason I recall hearing 30, so I will have to go and rewatch that part) - to me - hints at this, and we've already seen one come up to Mel's dull-fuckery.  Thank the Onion for the boat and getting him the hell outta there

 

Whole thing just smacks 'protection' by having Ned take him in.  And Catelyn not knowing - and throwing years of shade onto the three of them - would have been for Jon's protection.  He was going to tell Jon 'about your mother someday' and just never got the chance.  Maybe this is where we find out who's really whose.

[DarkRaichu]

Nah, I think her real misstep was not bouncing out of Slaver's Bay as soon as she stole the Unsullied and fried Astapor, her campaign to re-shape the world order has led her into a quagmire that I don't think anyone could advise her out of. She did hardly ever listen to Jorah, his real value to her was as "her dearest friend" but he could no longer even be that after she learned his secret. If he were there, he'd probably actually agree with Daario. If Varys can convince to actually return to the land she was born in and claims to be Queen of, then he's the adviser she needs.

 

 

The intention made sense, if she could not handle 2 cities how would she be able to govern Westeros.  The problem was she was being stubborn and not actually learning anything but asserting her will.  Perhaps something drastic needs to happen to open her eyes

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

I miss Jorah Mormont.  Dany's new advisor is too much the rock star to suit my tastes.  Jorah made his more-than-fair-share of mistakes but I believe that he grew to respect (and love) Dany and gave her the best advice.  What do we really know about Dario?

 

Dislike the Daario character intensely (and I actually thought the slimier version in S3 was more appropriate but maybe that's because my opinion of the character is more that of a sleezebag than the romantic hero this guy seems to be playing) although I do think he raised a good point (about the value of "bread and circuses" even if he didn't put it in those terms, and that she really won't stay in power long if she doesn't have badass dragons to back her up) How long until the people of Essos begin to realize she has lost control of her dragons? She really came to power in S3 by wielding them like a weapon - and now that ability is gone. I think the only recourse she has is to learn how to train those dragons to obey her. I am picturing herself and 2 others she trains riding them into battle and controlling them that way.

 

Really miss Jorah and part of me wants to see Dany crash and burn without his counsel lol.

 

I can't believe I am actually on board with team SansaFinger... as someone said the irony is just rather delicious (during their scene this week I kept thinking of S1 at the tournament when he sat beside her and was SOOOO SLIMEY. who woulda thunk 4 years later...)  But if she's smart she'll learn what she can from him and then he'll finally meet his doom via the monster he himself created.

 

Sad Mance is gone. Think we got multiple reaction shots of Tormund - I wonder if he will step up as leader now that Mance has left a vacuum, and maybe think twice about being as stubborn about bending the knee. Not sure that would be in Tormund's character, but watching what happened to Mance might convince just about anybody? who knows?

[Holmbo]

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120520000749/gameofthrones/images/thumb/7/7a/Jon_Arryn_funeral_bier.jpg/640px-Jon_Arryn_funeral_bier.jpg

 

On the subject of eye rocks, I think Tywin had the best and creepiest.

 

I agree, though even as they were creepy they also made me laugh. Mostly because I was thinking about a comment I heard ones complementing Charles Dance saying he looked like a bronzed white walker. Those blue eyes were very white walkerish.

I think it could indeed be the angle. I don't think we saw Arryn or Joffrey straight from above.

 

 

By the way It's interesting to see that Jon Arryn got brown stone eyes. Otherwise we could have speculated about blue stone eyes maybe being a tradition somehow  tied to some vague memory of reanimation into whights.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Holmbo

[RadiantAerynSun]

There's a popular theory that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen conceived when he kidnapped Lyanna, that could also make his blood royal since he was a Prince and might similarly make Jon interesting to Melisandre. Why him not being a virgin is good however I don't know?  Does it make him a better or worse blood leach sacrifice?

re: the eye rocks I think it's because the angle from above Tywin makes it look like they are actually resting in the sockets rather than clearly being stones on top of the eyes as with the other 2.

[Holmbo]

Dislike the Daario character intensely (and I actually thought the slimier version in S3 was more appropriate but maybe that's because my opinion of the character is more that of a sleezebag than the romantic hero this guy seems to be playing)

I feel the same. I can picture the sleezy guy as working better in every Daario scene. Like the one with him and Dany this episode. If the sleezy guy was telling her about being a slave and a pit fighter I would have totally bought it but with this Daario just feel he should have an acoustic guitar rather than that naked woman dagger.

[The Kings Foot]

. Unfortunately while I appreciate the sentiment of learning how to rule, the failure with the dragons makes me question why she hasn't asked any of her relatives back in Valeria for some "how to train your dragons" books. *sigh*

 

 

 

 

What relatives back in Valeria ?  

[Hecate7]

This episode was pretty 'meh' to me, but it's a starter and I guess we had to get back into a groove somehow

 

To me, Mel asking Jon about his virginity had more to do with my suspicions that Jon's actually Ned's nephew - and Robert's son.  Or at least Robert's son.  And Mel is looking for royal 'jelly' and knows Jon is a Baratheon.  Now, if Stannis finds out, I can see him trying to kill Jon and Jon leading the Wildlings and those who favor him on the wall to victory. 

 

Tyrion and Varys - Tyrion and Bron reloaded?  I can dig that :-)

 

Agree with those posting they were happy to not see Bran or Reek/Ramsey.  And I found Gilly to be incredibly whiny and demanding.  Bitch - SHUT UP already!  Just give shit TIME. 

 

Was I the only one surprised to see the cowardly bald dude (who ran into the stores where Gilly was when the figting was happening on the wall) walking side by side with the dude who is a dick but showed bravery during that same battle (again, my apologies, but names are obviously not my friend this afternoon)?  Didn't anyone inform Head Dick that dude ran and hid from his duties to the wall?!

 

Dany is, for me, just getting tiresome.  Stupid choices and people dying.  And pissed off dragon babies.   Seeing the Unsullied go to the brothel to have his head stroked and sung to made me think some of them miss having mothers and are going there for some quiet mom time.  Just seemed (outside of her undress and profession) a very sweet moment.  Up until the throat slicing. 

 

And I am still wondering what happened to Hot Pie's bread for Arya. 

 

Why would Ned keep Robert's son from him all these years? We already know that R + L = J. Yes, she can see he has the blood of kings. Not Baratheons, but kings, definitely.

[ToniG]

Why would Ned keep Robert's son from him all these years? We already know that R + L = J. Yes, she can see he has the blood of kings. Not Baratheons, but kings, definitely.

If this is Robert's son, Robert probably asked Ned to raise him, because Robert trusted Ned.

I don't think that R+L=J has been established at this point.

[Constantinople]

By the way It's interesting to see that Jon Arryn got brown stone eyes. Otherwise we could have speculated about blue stone eyes maybe being a tradition somehow  tied to some vague memory of reanimation into whights.

One possibility is that the color of the stones matches the color of the dead person's eyes.

But I much prefer your idea that the blue eye stones are some kind of folk memory. Jon Arryn's brown eye stones were in the pilot, so I'm just going to tell myself they don't count.

[Lady S.]

If this is Robert's son, Robert probably asked Ned to raise him, because Robert trusted Ned.

I don't think that R+L=J has been established at this point.

And Robert forgot and had to ask Ned who the babymama was in s1? I don't think even Robert's drunken memory was that bad, especially with how hung up he was on his lost love Lyanna.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEB5t1qRdmY

And why would Ned have to raise Robert's bastard claiming him as his own? Even Cersei/Joffrey only ordered his King's Landing bastards killed because of the twincest letter, Robert would have no reason to hide Jon's identity before he ever met Cersei. 

 

This has never really been a story about the dynasty of Robert Baratheon, has it? 

Edited April 16, 2015 by Lady S.

[Hecate7]

If this is Robert's son, Robert probably asked Ned to raise him, because Robert trusted Ned.

I don't think that R+L=J has been established at this point.

 

1) If it were Robert's son, then Robert would know. He would not keep asking Ned who Jon Snow's mother was. Robert had 20 bastards--there was never a reason for Ned to have to raise one as his own, and certainly no reason to keep it a secret from Cat.

 

2) maybe not. I was under the impression that GRRM had basically confirmed it. But maybe he's talking about something else.

[missy jo]

I somehow missed that Sam/Gilly/baby scene the first time around. Oh how I wish I missed it this time too.

 

 

So many people die on this show, why couldn't it be them?! They're painful to look at and dumb as a box of hair.

 

Full disclosure: I hate-watch this show so that I know what my friends are talking about when they're going on about Game of Thrones, so my opinions are bitter by default.

[Constantinople]

There's a popular theory that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen conceived when he kidnapped Lyanna, that could also make his blood royal since he was a Prince and might similarly make Jon interesting to Melisandre. Why him not being a virgin is good however I don't know?  Does it make him a better or worse blood leach sacrifice?

TV/Movie tradition is that only virgins are tossed into volcanoes to appease the gods.

Either that or Melisandre doesn't like to break them in.

[Hecate7]

She's burnt an awful lot of people who weren't virgins, so I expect it's more about something like smoke babies or some other magical plans.

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

And I am still wondering what happened to Hot Pie's bread for Arya.

 

D'oh if only Brienne had produced that at the critical moment, that all would have gone down totally different :( That didn't even cross my mind til now.

[Constantinople]

D'oh if only Brienne had produced that at the critical moment, that all would have gone down totally different :( That didn't even cross my mind til now.

Brienne and Pod are horseless in the S4 finale. Brienne thought the horses wandered off because Pod didn't properly tie the knots that would have prevented that. If the wolf bread was packed ins something being carried by the horses, then, even if they had thought about it, neither Brienne nor Pod could have shown Arya the bread.

By the way, in this episode Brienne and Pod's scene starts with with Pod walking from a horse towards Brienne. So they either got one of the horses back or somehow acquired another one.

[paigow]

Jon could be Ned's nephew, Lyanna's son, by Robert or someone else..... or older brother Bran's son by someone?   Is that what you meant?  The possibilities are so much fun.  

Stannis is convinced that Ned fathered Jon Snow. Does Stannis have a list of Robert's bastards?

[terrymct]

The intention made sense, if she could not handle 2 cities how would she be able to govern Westeros.  The problem was she was being stubborn and not actually learning anything but asserting her will.  Perhaps something drastic needs to happen to open her eyes

 

I suspect that she's being shown as well meaning and charismatic but politically inept so that Varys and Tyrion can help her when they make it to Mereen.  Basically, she's weak in ways that the two of them are strong and vice versa.

[monakane]

 

Sansa and Littlefinger make for another good team as well.

 

I binge watched The Wire over the winter.  Now I'm seeing Carcetti instead of Littlefinger.  Interesting that they are basically the same amoral ambitious character but in different setting.

 

I hope Sansa has the good sense to never, ever trust him.

[that one guy]

. Unfortunately while I appreciate the sentiment of learning how to rule, the failure with the dragons makes me question why she hasn't asked any of her relatives back in Valeria for some "how to train your dragons" books. *sigh*

 

What relatives back in Valeria ?

 

As far as we know (from the show anyway), the only surviving Targaryens are Dany and her great uncle Maester Aemon - who might know something about dragons, but Dany doesn't seem to know about him. Which is not surprising, he's the elder brother of a king from 70 years ago who's been living at the absolute ass end of the world. Most people would be surprised to learn he was still alive, I think.

 

Come to think of it, she needs a Maester. Everybody else has one. Can't she afford to hire one now? Or doesn't Mereen have a university or library or something? Why didn't she hire Old Teacher Guy to teach her about the history of Mereen or something, rather than let him go get re-enslaved? Missandae knows about languages and Barristan, Daario and Grey Worm mostly know the 23 ways to kill someone with a pencil. You need more than that to govern effectively. She needs some better advisors!

[Holmbo]

One possibility is that the color of the stones matches the color of the dead person's eyes.

I think that is the boring but true explanation.

[Hecate7]

D'oh if only Brienne had produced that at the critical moment, that all would have gone down totally different :( That didn't even cross my mind til now.

 

OMG. Brienne just went from unlucky to inexcusably stupid in my estimation. She killed a man when all she had to do was show Arya a loaf of bread. Ugh!

[Lady S.]

Stannis is convinced that Ned fathered Jon Snow. Does Stannis have a list of Robert's bastards?

Robert was convinced Ned fathered Jon Snow, and imo seemed to believe he'd never gotten the chance to screw Lyanna. There's definitely others surviving of Robert's 20 bastards than Gendry, since the ones hunted were the ones born and raised in King's Landing, but Robert didn't come to his throne a virgin nor was he glued to the capital once he started living there. I think Mel finding Gendry in particular may have had something to do with Gendry being with a Red Priest at the time, maybe her fire could tune into the radio frequency of Thoros's or something.

 

Remember, the missing Uncle Benjen had hair darker than any of the actors playing the three Baratheon brothers, so Lyanna could have too. And a union of "the Last Dragon" and a daughter of Winter(fell) fits the ice and fire theme doesn't it?

 

Anyway, I think if Melly senses King's blood in Jon, it doesn't mean she has to know the details. She's not omniscient or infallible. Maybe she just wants some hotter action because Stannis's fires have burned low for a while. (She went to find Gendry because she was sick of Stannis's grousing but she appears to be hitting on Jon on her own initiative.)

 

that one guy has it right. There are no relatives in Valyria because "Old Valyria" is in ruins, there's been at least one reference to "the Doom of Valyria". There may be plenty of others in Essos with some degree of Valyrian blood, but the Targs were the last dragonriders and Maester Aemon is the last known living Targ other than Dany. He has met who I believe to be his great-great-nephew, Jon but of course neither is aware of their relation.

[wayne67]

that one guy has it right. There are no relatives in Valyria because "Old Valyria" is in ruins, there's been at least one reference to "the Doom of Valyria". There may be plenty of others in Essos with some degree of Valyrian blood, but the Targs were the last dragonriders and Maester Aemon is the last known living Targ other than Dany. He has met who I believe to be his great-great-nephew, Jon but of course neither is aware of their relation.

 

Well I think it's odd that Stannis daughter could have a book detailing dragons and dragon riders from 300 years ago and noone thinks to look for any books about dragons out in Mereen. It doesn't have to be Valerian family members but it's like Sam knowing about random arcane lore from reading lots of books. I'd imagine something got passed down during the generations. Valeria may have had some Maesters that weren't Targareans that might have been saved from the royal purge.

 

It's just odd that noone ever mentions even attempting to find a way of how the dragons were controlled in the past. It's like having a giant catapult and only getting it to work erratically because the builder is dead and you don't even bother looking for a new one.

 

Maybe Dany should look for one of those people who can control animals with their minds... Whatever they were called...

Edited April 16, 2015 by wayne67

[Macbeth]

We lose Tywin and gain Lancel.  That is not a fair trade.

 

Though it will be great to see Cersei, never a rock in calm waters never mind stormy seas, lose her shit - now that she has no Daddy and no money.

 

Stannis generally likes to start with a barbecue at the beginning of a season, except for S3 when he had lost at Blackwater and was depressed.  He burned the statues of the 7 gods in S2.  He roasted an inlaw in S4.  So killing Mance is just how Stannis expresses that all is right with his universe.

[Constantinople]

Even now, after everything that's happened, Tyrion is still stuck on the idea of family

 

Tyrion: You never told me why you set me free.

Varys: Your brother asked me to.

Tyrion: You could have said no.

Varys: Refuse the Kingslayer?  A dangerous proposition.

Tyrion: Not as dangerous as releasing me.  You risked your life, your position, everything.  Why? You're not family.  You owe me nothing.

Varys: I didn't do it for you.  I did it for the Seven Kingdoms.

 

It's also at least the second time someone told Tyrion "I didn't do it for you".  The other being the Hound after he rescued Sansa during the riot in King's Landing.