Small Talk: We'll Be Right Back

[roamyn]

Prevailing Wind wrote:

 

Quote

But those commercials make me stabby. Why do people feel the need to have a big, expensive funeral?  Spend that money on appreciating the person while they're still alive.  When they're dead, what difference will it make?  Are they afraid "other people" will think they didn't love mom enough to send her off in style?  Screw that.

I'm in the cemetery business and can answer this.

99% of Southern Baptists absolutely believe in the Rapture.  It's considered sacrilege in their culture to cremate a body.  If you've ever been to an African American wedding, the funerals are very similar.  They celebrate a new life (ie going home to meet the Lord.)

We've actually seen people get upset at cemeteries once they realize their is no body to bury.

And contrary to common belief, it's almost as expensive to cremate.   Right now pre-need cremation is about $2K here in NC. And if u have to transport the body, it's more.  Some policies don't allow transfer from state to state, unless you pay extra. 

It's probably more in NY & CA (for example).  Mausoleums are even more expensive than burials.

[Prevailing Wind]

Personally, I think "The Rapture" has already happened and we're what's left.  Have you noticed you no longer see bumper stickers "Honk if you love Jesus" or "In case of Rapture, this car will be unmanned" ?  That's because those people are gone now.

When I first moved to Georgia, it was the first time I'd ever seen that "unmanned car" sticker and it baffled me. Growing up in Miami, I'd never heard of The Rapture.

Six years ago, I paid for my cremation and it was only $925 (includes transportation for 50 miles). I don't care *where* my cremains go. My parents bought a niche in Miami and then moved to N. Georgia, so the niche sits there, unused. The cemetery won't buy it back and I tried advertising in both the English & Spanish editions of the Miami Herald and got no takers. They bought it in '67 and the deed says that section is for members of the white race only, which I was told is no longer enforceable.  As late as 1967, black folks weren't allowed in some places.  I finally gave the deed to my brother, who says he'll donate it to a cremation society in Miami.

[mmecorday]

I have it stipulated in my last will and testament that when I die (and don't think I'm a nut) I don't want no fancy funeral, just one like Old King Tut.

[roamyn]

5 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

They bought it in '67 and the deed says that section is for members of the white race only, which I was told is no longer enforceable.  As late as 1967, black folks weren't allowed in some places.  I finally gave the deed to my brother, who says he'll donate it to a cremation society in Miami.

I'm sorry you have had auch a bad experience with that cemetery.  We buy back, but we don't sell to another person FOR you.

Current AT NEED cremations are at $1K now here in NC, so if that's what they were 6 yrs ago in Miami, imagine what they are now for pre-need.

And we're going through a file-file audit of all our cemeteries, some of which go back to the 50s.  I was appalled reading some of this language, abt no other races allowed.  Interestingly, one of our cemetaries was founded in the 60s for African Americans, and the language in THOSE old contracts specifically state only people of the Negroid race can be buried there.

By Federal law all of that is now unenforceable.  But we still get white people who don't want to be buried near Hispanic - not often, but it has come up on the rare occassion.

[theatremouse]

This is interesting to me. I was under the apparently wrong impression that when funerals are super expensive, the most expensive thing is usually the casket. So in that sense, unless you go plain box, cremation would generally be less expensive because even a super expensive urn won't match the cost of a super expensive casket, but I get there are a lot of variables in play such that they could even out or tip in one direction or the other depending on how big you go with various aspects.

[roamyn]

Theatre mouse, the most expensive part of the funeral varies.  Plots in a cemetery can go from $1,200-$2,000 here.  Elsewhere it can be more or less, depending on where u live.  Then u have the marker.  Those vary wildly, depending on what the cemetery allows.  We do not allow upright or in-ground markers.  Bronze  (w/granite base) only.  On the other hand, my grandparents have engraved granite markers in Ohio.

A casket can go from $500-$5,000.  The vaults are generally the same price as the land.  Where extra expenses lie is the funeral itself.  If you have a funeral at the Funeral Home Chapel, you need to pay for the Chapel, the staff, the books, flowers, embalming, make-up.  Every little thing adds up.

Edited September 15, 2016 by roamyn

[FormerMod-a1]

Bringing this over from the Commercials That Annoy thread as it's enough off topic in content and not about a specific commercial.

3 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I disagree with this completely.  I liked the way it used to be with doctors recommending new drugs if they thought they were better, or, recommending old drugs if they thought they were better.  Free samples weren't such a bad thing.  Who feared this??

They feared they weren't being given all the options because the doctors and hospitals were being swayed by the drug companies, and that the consumers did not know about their choices.  And IIRC, that's why the drug companies were "allowed" to (not the right word, but close enough) start advertising to the general public.  If my doctor only tells me about what they've got free samples of, or about who schmoozed them last, I might think I have to suffer whatever side effect (dry mouth, hair loss, memory issues, whatever) because I don't know there are other options, let alone what they are.  Basically, you don't know what you don't know.

That said, this doesn't surprise me.

3 hours ago, Jamoche said:

According to John Oliver, doctors are still prescribing whatever they got from the last company that visited, even when they think they don't. IIRC there was one doctor who didn't notice he preferred the one that gave him the pen he was using until he did an internal audit.

Although this is indeed a benefit.  I usually just skim the side effects, or look at them more closely when I start wondering if whatever odd thing I'm feeling or seeing is a side effect.

3 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

The positive side of the ads is that they describe the possible side effects and interactions.  That's better than having to read the warnings, which are often very long and usually in very small print. 

My husband's doctor didn't warn him about eating grapefruit, which interacts with one of his meds.  I didn't know about that either, until I saw it on a message board. 

And without quoting everyone else, yes we can look these things up and research on our own, but some things make it easier.  And some people wouldn't know what to look up or how.  Now they can ask their doctors about these things, and like I said in the commercial thread, the doctors don't just do what their patients ask.  They can discuss options and give reasons for or against something.  Do the commercials cost too much money, probably and that should be changed, but they do have their benefits.   

[theatremouse]

I never read the super small print that comes with my medication. I always just google <blah>-side effects and <blah>-interactions. For me it's easier than the pamphlet of 6-point font that comes with my pills. I've never had a doctor warn me about interactions though, even the grapefruit thing. I sort of didn't expect them to? I expect them to not prescribe me something that contradicts whatever else I'm already on, but any other warning (only take this one on a full stomach; only take this one on an empty stomach) only comes up with a pharmacist.

If I really super duper absolutely should not drive, even if I feel fine, on something my doctor tells me that before they prescribe it, but otherwise unless I ask or have expressed specific concerns about certain types of side effects, it's usually a "take it to fix the problem but if it causes another that adversely effects you, we change the plan when we find that out" kinda thing.

Edited September 20, 2016 by theatremouse

[Brattinella]

I can't argue with a moderator.

[FormerMod-a1]

Sure you can.  You can debate a moderator about non-official posts all you and they want.

[FormerMod-a1]

Brought this over from the "As Seen on TV Thread"...

15 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Why should you not  drink from the hose? I missed  that one. I grew up drinking  from the hose.

 

15 minutes ago, bad things are bad said:

Hoses that aren't labelled "safe" for drinking apparently have significant amounts of lead and other unsavory chemicals, and I drank from the hose when I was a kid too! Still do on occasion. 

If you really want to drink from a hose, look for a hose that's specifically labelled as safe for drinking. 

 

13 minutes ago, OSM Mom said:

When I was a kid (back in the dark ages) we always drank from the hose in the summer.  It tasted so good.  Maybe the chemicals in the hose made it tasty.  If we would have gone inside to get a drink, our parents would have looked at us like we were crazy.  

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to shoo some kids off my lawn. 

I grew up drinking from hoses, too.  Although my parents always told us not to.  I figured it was due to the possibility of bugs crawling up, or mold or other types of external factors.  I never thought of lead and chemicals.  Although, I also do remember someone talking about the pipes leading to outside water being different than inside water.  

[theatremouse]

Oh wow. I always assumed it was due to the potential for animal excrement. Sometimes I wonder why we don't all have lead poisoning. (and I say this having a close family friend whose child did get lead poisoning from lead paint in a daycare) Less must transfer via water than paint chips. (That's rhetorical. Don't tell me. It's taking all my energy not to google because then I'll never emerge from this hole.)

[Prevailing Wind]

The worst source of lead poisoning is dust - you know, all that crap that kicks up when you sand old woodwork & replace old window frames?  It's not so much kids eating paint chips, but breathing in the dust of renovation that goes into the lungs & pretty much directly into the bloodstream.  The blood/brain barrier isn't completely formed before a kid is 6, so it's particulary heinous for wee tots.

[theatremouse]

Mmm. Interesting. Yet another reason I love that my house already had the windows all replaced a year before I bought it (this decade).

In the case of the specific kid I was referring to, it was actually conclusively determined to have been several children eating peeling paint in a specific room at the daycare in question. I guess lead paint tastes sweet? I don't know if that's an urban legend, but it's what we were told. These were toddlers at the time, and it was ages ago, and it was a whole scandal. Horrible situation.

[riley702]

According to Wikipedia, it's true that lead paint tastes sweet.

[frenchtoast]

Quote

My plan is to be shipped off the the Body Farm so as to educate people in the field (perhaps even a literal field!) that I wish I'd pursued in life!

When my mom was setting up her will and doing all that DNR stuff and when to take her off life support stuff and who gets etc she also had to indicate what she wanted done after she died. We always knew it was donate to science or cremate. Turns out there will be quite a significant cost for that, too. I don't know about body farm, but to donate for medical schools there is quite the fee for that, nearly the same as cremating. It was quite the surprise, but it's something we'll deal with when it happens because it seems no matter what it will certainly cost us something even though my mom does not care at all what happens to her body. 

[smittykins]

19 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Mmm. Interesting. Yet another reason I love that my house already had the windows all replaced a year before I bought it (this decade).

In the case of the specific kid I was referring to, it was actually conclusively determined to have been several children eating peeling paint in a specific room at the daycare in question. I guess lead paint tastes sweet? I don't know if that's an urban legend, but it's what we were told. These were toddlers at the time, and it was ages ago, and it was a whole scandal. Horrible situation.

There's a Forensic Files episode about an Ethiopian refugee toddler who died from lead poisoning after eating paint chips; her family's landlord forged her mother(who couldn't read or write)'s signature on the form he was required to have her sign because the building had lead paint.

Edited September 23, 2016 by smittykins

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, frenchtoast said:

When my mom was setting up her will and doing all that DNR stuff and when to take her off life support stuff and who gets etc she also had to indicate what she wanted done after she died. We always knew it was donate to science or cremate. Turns out there will be quite a significant cost for that, too. I don't know about body farm, but to donate for medical schools there is quite the fee for that, nearly the same as cremating. It was quite the surprise, but it's something we'll deal with when it happens because it seems no matter what it will certainly cost us something even though my mom does not care at all what happens to her body. 

I don't care what happens to my body either. I've told my family to just throw me in the lake for the crawdads to feed off of, since god knows I've eaten enough of them. But in reality, my husband and I both want to be cremated and have our ashes put in a single urn. Then they can dump both of us in the lake.

[Brattinella]

I've always wanted my body to be left in the woods for the animals to enjoy.  Somehow I don't think that will happen.

[AuntiePam]

2 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I've always wanted my body to be left in the woods for the animals to enjoy.  Somehow I don't think that will happen.

I have a friend (he's 65) who says that if he's ever diagnosed with something terminal, he'll find a place where his body won't be found and he'll do himself in.  I don't know if he means it, but he's vehemently against nursing homes and has no close family, so maybe he will. 

In an episode of Deadwood, Seth Bullock was hunting Jack McCall and came across a Sioux burial, where the body was placed on a sort of stand (like a treehouse but not in a tree) where the elements and the birds would take care of it.  I like that idea. 

[theatremouse]

There are still cultures where that's the thing. Only problem is, unless you're in a specific designated area, someone might think it's a murder scene. 

[erikdepressant]

Kmart allows its dead stores to return to nature.

[NutMeg]

On 9/24/2016 at 0:08 AM, frenchtoast said:

to donate for medical schools there is quite the fee for that, nearly the same as cremating.

This is quite a surprise, indeed. I always thought "donate" meant "donate your body", i.e. help someone or multiple people, but I didn't realize you had to pay more than your body parts. Seems weird. 

[frenchtoast]

I don't know that there is a fee for organ donors (or their families) But typically those are sudden deaths. In this instance, I was referring to my mom arriving at a natural end where the organs had started shutting down so the organs would most likely not be able to be donated. It would be donating the body in its entirety for medical students to study or to a "farm" where students could learn about different ways of decomposition. Those would cost the family. I don't think my mom and I were alone in thinking that it wouldn't cost us much or anything--it's a donation after all--but it turns out for donating a body to a medical school there is not insignificant fee for the family to pay. Some of it is for the transport and some of it is for the disposal after it's been used. I'm not sure that organ donor families are charged anything.

[Brattinella]

1 hour ago, frenchtoast said:

Those would cost the family. I don't think my mom and I were alone in thinking that it wouldn't cost us much or anything--it's a donation after all--but it turns out for donating a body to a medical school there is not insignificant fee for the family to pay. Some of it is for the transport and some of it is for the disposal after it's been used. I'm not sure that organ donor families are charged anything.

This is just appalling.  I, too, assumed that Donation meant DONATION, like a gift, no strings.  Having to pay for this, well I must re-think my end plans now.

[frenchtoast]

1 minute ago, Brattinella said:

This is just appalling.  I, too, assumed that Donation meant DONATION, like a gift, no strings.  Having to pay for this, well I must re-think my end plans now.

And that is why we were surprised at the discussion with the lawyer. He pointed it out to us while we were doing a will, healthcare proxy, that sort of stuff as my mom was newly divorced. Of course, it could be that it's the schools here in MA that charge for it. Perhaps elsewhere they don't. I don't think there's much uniformity anywhere. But it definitely gave us something to think about and eventually look into. But the lawyer was a good one (and yes, there are good lawyers who help their clients as much as possible) and he wanted to make sure we understood that it might not be that much less than cremation.

[smittykins]

There was no fee when I donated my husband's organs.

[theatremouse]

Organ donation and body donation are totally different unrelated things, as described above. Organ donation there are dying patients literally waiting for those organs to save their lives. (and theoretically any costs at the hospital associated with transporting the organs or performing the surgery are covered by health insurance of some sort. Or the patient gets a giant bill)

If you donate a body to a medical school, if the body alone were the donation, then they school would incur all the other costs. Maybe some have enough funding that that's worth it to them to have the real bodies to work with. Others I imagine don't, which is probably why they charge you associated fees. That or it's intentionally to dissuade people from doing it en masse just to try and avoid funeral expenses. I don't know for sure.

A morbid example: I think of it like membership levels at other non-profits you might donate to. Donate $250 and you get a t-shirt. $1000 and you get an invitation to the annual luncheon. $2000 and a corpse, and the body will be used for science!

[peacheslatour]

On 9/23/2016 at 2:49 PM, AuntiePam said:

I have a friend (he's 65) who says that if he's ever diagnosed with something terminal, he'll find a place where his body won't be found and he'll do himself in.  I don't know if he means it, but he's vehemently against nursing homes and has no close family, so maybe he will. 

In an episode of Deadwood, Seth Bullock was hunting Jack McCall and came across a Sioux burial, where the body was placed on a sort of stand (like a treehouse but not in a tree) where the elements and the birds would take care of it.  I like that idea. 

I actually spoke to my doctor about this. He said what he would do is go up into the mountains with a bottle of his favorite whiskey, take off his clothes and drink until he passed out. Exposure would take care of the rest.

[AuntiePam]

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I actually spoke to my doctor about this. He said what he would do is go up into the mountains with a bottle of his favorite whiskey, take off his clothes and drink until he passed out. Exposure would take care of the rest.

That's almost exactly how my friend said he'd do it -- drinking himself to death with Bushmill's -- but he'd leave his clothes on and he wants to do it in Ireland.  Everything I've read about exposure makes it seem relatively painless, and leaves no mess.

[Prevailing Wind]

The trick is getting to the mountains at that time.  I may too feeble/disabled to drive myself. I always figured I'd drive off a cliff, but that exposure thing sounds good.

[peacheslatour]

Yeah and I don't know about the getting naked part. I don't want to be freezing the whole time, but he said it would even work on mild days because of how cold it gets at night. I guess you could take a cab up and just go a short way off the road. Sit against a tree, drink your drink of choice and when you're drunk enough take off your clothes and watch the sun set.

[Prevailing Wind]

I think I'd wanna tape my eyes shut. The thought of flies laying eggs in my eyes creeps me out, even if I am dead.

[Silver Raven]

The Parsees, the only surviving practitioners of Zoroastrianism, in India, put their dead up on platforms after they die.

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-parsi-body-plans-vulture-breeding-to-help-death-rites-1303131

[Brattinella]

45 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

The Parsees, the only surviving practitioners of Zoroastrianism, in India, put their dead up on platforms after they die.

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-parsi-body-plans-vulture-breeding-to-help-death-rites-1303131

I found pictures of "The Tower of Silence".  It is a pretty cool way to dispose of the dead.  I hope they can rear more vultures for this rite.

[Prevailing Wind]

Quote

Yeah, I've had my digestive problems a long time.  I've tried every probiotic I can find, and they don't seem to do much good for me.

I've decided, since no doc was interested in helping me, that my problem is yeast overgrowth, i.e., leaky gut, and I finally persuaded my GP to prescribe Diflucan for me. She gave me an RX for one weekly for a month, with two refills.  I don't think it's gonna help until I STOP EATING SUGAR.  My niece had the same problem, took diflucan for 3 months and says all the sugar cravings are gone and she feels GREAT, except for living in Memphis, which she now hates.  (I don't think she'll be happy anywhere she goes; she's just an unhappy person.) But with a healthy gut!!

[Prevailing Wind]

Quote

I thought I was weird for thinking this way; someone told me I must have a criminal mind to think like that.

(Above quote is regarding the VR commercial with the woman blocking out the unsavory stuff on her bus ride with her VR phone.)

When I worked at a law firm, the comptroller thought like a criminal, too. He said it was the only way to safeguard against employees trying to game the system.  Some of the accounting employees were appalled & insulted. One even quit.  THEN we had a woman write some software the secretaries were going to be using and she gave it to me to test.  Of course, I didn't follow the directions & found all sorts of bugs in the software. She whined to me, "But you're not supposed to do it like THAT."  I told her,  "People are stupid & lazy and will take whatever short cuts they think they can. You need to protect the software against stupidity."  She wandered off, shaking her head, mumbling, "Who THINKS like that?"  The Finance Partner later came to me and thanked me.  Sometimes, you just have to think like a criminal or a stupid person to keep things safe.

[Jamoche]

12 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

She wandered off, shaking her head, mumbling, "Who THINKS like that?" 

Every software engineer ever? I'm one, and I'm boggled :)

[AuntiePam]

Speaking of digestive problems, it's doubtful that my remedy will help anyone else, but after years of IBS-D, my symptoms stopped when I gave up BreathSavers.  I'm a smoker, and for years would have a BreathSaver in my mouth, every waking moment.  When it was pointed out to me that these breath mints contain sorbitol -- an ingredient in laxatives -- I switched to Altoids.  The effect was immediate. 

[erikdepressant]

21 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Sometimes, you just have to think like a criminal or a stupid person to keep things safe.

It's amazing how many explanations of policies begin with, "That is indeed how a rational person would think; however, our customers..."

[ennui]

22 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

"People are stupid & lazy and will take whatever short cuts they think they can. You need to protect the software against stupidity." 

I don't think it's stupidity. I've often heard if you want to find the most efficient way to do something, give it to a lazy person. There's a difference.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

Speaking of digestive problems, it's doubtful that my remedy will help anyone else, but after years of IBS-D, my symptoms stopped when I gave up BreathSavers.  I'm a smoker, and for years would have a BreathSaver in my mouth, every waking moment.  When it was pointed out to me that these breath mints contain sorbitol -- an ingredient in laxatives -- I switched to Altoids.  The effect was immediate. 

That's why I eat sugar-free Red Vines. I have the opposite problem and the sorbitol helps greatly.

[Silver Raven]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

That's why I eat sugar-free Red Vines. I have the opposite problem and the sorbitol helps greatly.

Ugh, sorbitol and xylitol give me major digestive problems.

[Prevailing Wind]

I avoid all those sugar-alcohols. They do nasty things to my body.  I've been on Vitamin D3 for about a year now; still have the digestive issues. GastroGuy did the scopes, upper & lower, and now that Medicare's paid him a pittance, he isn't interested in any further exploration of my problem. His solution is to mask the symptoms by taking Imodium.  I'm not going back to him, the quack.  Didn't like the podiatrist the GP referred me to, either.  The whole point of a diabetic going to a podiatrist is to prevent foot injury, yet I never left his office without silver nitrate to stop the bleeding on at least two toes. I fired him, too.

[peacheslatour]

13 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Ugh, sorbitol and xylitol give me major digestive problems.

If you'd been as constipated as I have you'd be desperate for anything that worked. And unlike laxatives there's no gas, no cramps and you get to eat Red Vines!

[frenchtoast]

I am so, so, grateful that the GP referred hubby right away to a GI that looked at hubby and said, "I have a feeling it's celiac, we have to take an endoscopy." And he did and bang that was the diagnosis. Now, he didn't ask the doc about it until I was 8 months pregnant with our first kid and I was hormonal and worried about him dying from colon cancer. It's been an adventure since then because the docs don't help with the actual cooking/choosing foods part. There were a few books out at the time which helped a lot. But after hearing stories about bad docs and years until diagnosis, we are so grateful it was that quick and easy.

[riley702]

22 hours ago, forumfish said:

I may have mentioned this somewhere before, so apologies if this is a repeat -- ask your doctor if you should try vitamin D for digestive issues. Years after being diagnosed with melanoma (and thus avoiding significant sun exposure), I found out I had vitamin D insufficiency. Once supplements got my level up to normal, I realized I no longer had IBS-like attacks. I remember telling my gastro doc and he didn't seem to think there was a correlation, but look: http://www.webmd.com/ibs/news/20151222/ibs-low-vitamin-d

Low vitamin D levels are associated with breast cancer, too. I'm unsure whether it's the low D that makes you more prone to the cancer, or if the cancer leeches the D from your system (I think it's the first), but when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, the ladies in my online support group urged me to get my levels checked. Mine was wacky low. Normal is 30 to 50, and mine was 12. Only D3 gets my levels up and I now take 2,000 IUs/day just to keep it in the 30s. One of my nieces has the same really low D levels, but I can't convince her to take supplements. She shrugs it off with, "I'll just go to the beach more." I worry that she's setting herself up for trouble.

[Prevailing Wind]

The problem with "going to the beach more" is we take too many showers. The Sunshine Vitamin needs to be absorbed via body oils and that takes a bit of time. Meanwhile, we feel sticky, icky & sandy from the beach, so we shower, washing off the body oils and the vitamin D along with it.

[theatremouse]

A few years ago my doctor was putting me on medication that leeches D (or just makes you not absorb it well, I'm not bothering to distinguish) and she was mentioning that when she does D tests on her patients before putting them on such stuff to get a baseline in order to how advise them what supplements to take after, 80% of them were low already. Basically, almost no one has normal vitamin D levels on their own. I mean, small sample size, one doctor, but still she was sort of being all "kids these days" with her tone (but not just kids, all aged humans).

[topanga]

Quote

So I use the grocery bags or the Target bags (those are better) to pick up after my dog. One handed!

That reminds me of the TV show 'Hoarders.' People on the show whose toilets are broken or clogged like to poop in Target bags because they're thicker than regular grocery bags. 

But yeah, I like them for my dog, too.