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S04.E20: Terra Incognita

ElectricBoogaloo

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Moxie Cat

Moxie Cat

Loved seeing Carter again, and at the "reveal", I wanted to go back and rewatch to see which part of the conversation never happened (apparently everything after Reese flipped on the radio and began pumping the heat).

 

That said, for a show that's usually careful about details and direction, this ep dropped the ball a few times:

 

- Reese clearly got shot in the shoulder, but I completely missed when he got shot in the stomach. There was a cut to commercial, correct? It was just done very fuzzily. He didn't get shot in the stomach in the cabin, did he? I still can't figure out why he was immobile on the floor just from a shot in the shoulder. Not this guy!

 

- Why was Carter prodding him so hard to get the keys from the dead guy? I'm guessing it was to start the car and the heat, but then when the car wouldn't start, she was just like, "John, you dumbass, of course it's too cold to start," like she knew that all along. Then why the struggle to get the keys? Just a weird bit of writing, IMO. Also, having lived through very cold temps in the northeast this past winter, I doubt that a half-hour or so would make those cars' ignitions stop working. Maybe the killer's car had been there longer, but John's car hadn't been there very long. Why couldn't he get to his car? I know there are possible reasons given above, but again: weird for POI to be so vague. I honestly couldn't keep track of whose car John was in, or why there was a gunshot in the window. 

 

- Couldn't we have had one shot of Fusco looking at the cabin's address in Carter's records? I thought that was him at the end as well, but it would have cleared up who came and that it wasn't a hallucination. 

 

- And last but not least, that poor POI! It was like we were supposed to forget about him during the last 20 minutes of the show. Reese showed absolutely no interest in that poor guy when he was in the car with "Carter", and yes, he was dying, but the lack of concern seemed out of character to me. (I also thought the guy had faked swallowing the pills, because he could have, the way he did it, with his hand covering his mouth entirely. I was surprised the half-brother didn't say, "Open your hand.")

 

I think we could have done with a minute or two fewer of the car scenes, a tad more exposition, and a slightly longer conclusion at the very end (including Fusco's arrival that was cut, as mentioned upthread). Interesting ep, good in some ways, but very strange in others. 

  • Love 3
stealinghome

stealinghome

- Why was Carter prodding him so hard to get the keys from the dead guy? I'm guessing it was to start the car and the heat, but then when the car wouldn't start, she was just like, "John, you dumbass, of course it's too cold to start," like she knew that all along. Then why the struggle to get the keys? Just a weird bit of writing, IMO.

See, this I actually kind of can understand when you think about Carter as basically John's survival instinct/common sense in this episode. It was John's survival instinct prodding him to go get the keys to warm the car up, and then it was John's common sense being like "fuck, I forgot that car engines don't like the cold" (though I agree that like half an hour generally isn't enough to drain a battery). I took Carter being like "John, you idiot" as part of John having the belated realization that getting the keys was kind of a dumb move.

 

- Reese clearly got shot in the shoulder, but I completely missed when he got shot in the stomach. There was a cut to commercial, correct? It was just done very fuzzily. He didn't get shot in the stomach in the cabin, did he?

He got shot during the commercial break after he grabbed his ankle holster gun. When we came back from the commercial break, eventually Carter said something like "You shot and killed the bad guy, but not before he got you." They wanted the second shot to the stomach to be a big reveal--but I agree it was confusing.

  • Love 1
theschnauzers

theschnauzers

That was Michael Hewes who swallowed the pills, right? If so, I've gotta say, stunning underuse of that guy.

 

Actually, the actor who played the PoI character is Zachary Booth. He's a New York based actor who has done film, television and stage work, and has a BFA from the University of Michigan. He played Glenn Close's son in Damages, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2185539/

 

The thing some of you overlooked is that the flashbacks was also a call back to Cold Case, a show that some of the EP's, i.e., Greg Plageman, were involved with, and the then and now looks of the cast and guest cast did give a CC-vibe to the episode.

 

As a whole I immensely enjoyed the episode. Whether Carter was a figment of Reese's imagination or was Reese's guardian angel may be hard to tell, but I tend towards the latter. What I appreciaate most about the episode is that it gave the fans a better chance to have closure with Carter.

  • Love 2
Agent Dark

Agent Dark

Hmm, I'm left slightly disappointed by this episode because I think it should have been the one where Reese actually bought it.  The set-up was there for it, it was acted really well by Jim and Taraji and it would have been a bittersweet follow through on the theme of Reese's character through the episode - he only realises how he messed up his life at the very end.  It almost feels a bit cheap that he survives.  I wonder if the producers didn't have their hand forced with Sarah's leave of absence, whether this would have been the episode where Reese would have died for realsies.  I'm sure I've read an interview where someone said Sarah's pregnancy 'saved' Jim. 

 

Structurally the episode was pretty well done, though I figured kinda early on that wasn't a real flashback from two things - 1) there's a quick flash early on from the 'warm and coloured' car scene to a 'cold and dark' car scene that was the reality of the situation and 2) the episode wasn't show from Machine PoV.  Watch any other episode and you'll see the act breaks are always opened with The Machine (or Samaritan) locating a feed that establishes the location of the scene.  These were absent, along with the opening credits, in this episode and the act breaks just cold opened into the scenes of Reese and Carter.  I love the way this show uses the mechanical structure of a TV Show to frame the narrative (eg how the opening credits are sometimes interrupted like in Relevance or Zero Day).

 

 

- Root in that wedding dress? YES. At first I thought she had taken the place of an actual bride for some reason, to gain access to a location while the real bride was unconscious somewhere. But are we to assume she legitimately almost married a dude? I love her.

 

I think it was a chick she almost married - I'm pretty sure Root mentions a 'her' when she explains what she was doing. 

  • Love 4
wevel

wevel

(edited)

I think it was a chick she almost married - I'm pretty sure Root mentions a 'her' when she explains what she was doing. 

 

She mentions "Her" only in relation to The Machine; the gender of the person Root got close to was left unspecified as "someone":

 

Finch: Congratulations? 

Root: Don't go buying me that blender just yet, Harry.  With Samaritan hunting down the Machine, I figured we should start our own search for Her.  I tried to get close to someone I thought had inside information.  It ended badly.  Not only am I still on the market, but we have no leads to help us find Her.

 

I wonder if the producers didn't have their hand forced with Sarah's leave of absence, whether this would have been the episode where Reese would have died for realsies.  I'm sure I've read an interview where someone said Sarah's pregnancy 'saved' Jim. 

 

Maybe, but now that we have lost Shaw - even if she comes back, she's going to be "wrong" somehow - I'm glad we didn't lose Reese as well.  I mean, he's not my favorite character, but Team Machine would be down yet another weapon-wielder, I'd miss seeing John's new awkward work relationship with Root ("murder-in-laws" - whoever first came up with that - describes them well), but mostly, I wouldn't want to see Harold be completely devastated.  Even though part of me would be really intrigued to see a much darker Harold. 

Edited by wevel
  • Love 1
immortalfrieza

immortalfrieza

(edited)

See this POI writers? THIS kind of episode is why I got into this show and why I've stayed. A number is given, is it a victim or perpetrator? More importantly however is the heartfelt interactions the characters have with each other. Carter may be a ghost or hallucination or whatever this ep, but seeing her and Reese talk was all that was needed. Now we've got these arcs nonsense following what everybody else does instead of sticking with the show's original formula, which worked on every level, thankfully we at least get some brief glimpses into what made this show great and unique in episodes like this.

 

Oh, and if Reese ever does die for real?  Either he or Harold dying wouldn't be the straw that broke the camel's back for me, more like the 10 ton safe. If either of them or especially both of them die, it better be the last episode, or this show has lost me. Both of these characters are essential to the show, everybody else can die and Team Machine can still pick up where they left off, but Reese and Harold are the heart of the operation, without them there is no Team Machine anymore no matter who they bring in to replace them.

Edited by immortalfrieza
  • Love 10
stealinghome

stealinghome

Lovely episode. I agree that it was "too much" about Reese, but I don't think that's a bad thing. I actually think it'd be exploitative if the show brought back Carter and retconned something completely or randomly had an episode all about her; she is gone. Her reappearance was, fittingly, exactly about that fact. She is gone and she is sorely missed. Reese, the one closest to her, misses her the most. Still. Needs her still. It makes sense, in my opinion, that the "window" that allows for Carter's reappearance involves him.

After pondering more on the episode and rewatching some clips: I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day, imo the Carter character deserved better than to come back as a catalyst/prop/whatever word one wants to use for Reese's emotional journey. That was so not the character of Carter when she was alive, and I can't help feeling like the character deserved better here. I wouldn't say that PoI fridged Carter, but I thought last night's ep brought us closer to fridge territory than S3 did in a way I didn't like (ie Carter's place in the narrative is all about the pain her death caused John).

 

Now, I'm not sure they could have brought Carter back in a way that truly did justice to the character, to be fair. But still, I don't think it would have been exploitative to give the Carter character more to do on her own. I wouldn't want any retcons, but I would have welcomed seeing Carter be more of the BAMF we all knew and loved.

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DeLurker

DeLurker

After pondering more on the episode and rewatching some clips: I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day, imo the Carter character deserved better than to come back as a catalyst/prop/whatever word one wants to use for Reese's emotional journey. That was so not the character of Carter when she was alive, and I can't help feeling like the character deserved better here. I wouldn't say that PoI fridged Carter, but I thought last night's ep brought us closer to fridge territory than S3 did in a way I didn't like (ie Carter's place in the narrative is all about the pain her death caused John).

 

Now, I'm not sure they could have brought Carter back in a way that truly did justice to the character, to be fair.

That's what bugged me about the ep.  A lot of the stuff John was spouting off about would have been a more relevant dialogue with Jessica.  He was, at some point, open and hopeful with her as Carter pointed out in the picture.  And that is the John she (Carter) never saw. 

 

I think TPTB felt they had to bring back TPH and thought verge of death delusional memory was the route to take.  I think it was a bad call and a misuse of the talent.

  • Love 1
buttersister

buttersister

I was not happy when Carter was killed off, until I met Cookie (I can be flexible). Seeing her last night was all good--she would be the one that Reese would talk to (or wish he had). So that was a nice touch--as was the stuff that happened off screen (after a sec of wha? I figured it out), as was showing that Fusco was determined to find John. Show doesn't always put the cat sign on the cat, imo. (Heh, but the previous Michael Emerson show I watched was Lost, so there's that.)

 

I felt like the bridal gown (which was FILTHY at the bottom) might have qualified as a stunt, not sure the blender line made up for it, but maybe it did.

  • Love 2
Camera One

Camera One

Was Carter wearing more makeup in this episode than usual?  

 

It was nice to see Carter again.  She and Reese work so well together on screen.  It made me miss her presence on the show again.  I liked the concept of Reese following her footsteps in the case.  I liked seeing her as a rookie too, so I don't think it was retread in that area at all, and we never really saw her reflect on working with Team Machine as she did with John in this episode.  

 

The whole sequence of John in the snow and in the car, and Carter being there as John was in danger of dying was an interesting twist, though it was awkward how he ended up in the car after he was shot.  That part could have been more smooth.  I also think the Carter/John conversations after that could have been shortened.  It dragged on for too long after the "punchline" that John was mis-remembering.  I didn't understand why he would give Carter that photo to keep.

  • Love 1
wevel

wevel

I felt like the bridal gown (which was FILTHY at the bottom) might have qualified as a stunt, not sure the blender line made up for it, but maybe it did.

 

I think the filth combined with the running shoes implied that Root had to hightail it out of the ... ceremony, I guess (or dress fitting?), running through the park or streets etc.  It was pretty ott even as a Root cover, but it was probably meant to be the comic relief in an otherwise somber episode.

 

Was Carter wearing more makeup in this episode than usual?  

 

In retrospect, she did look a bit more well put together than she usually did, but maybe that was deliberate; another subtle hint that she was John's imagined (and therefore slightly idealized) version of Carter.

  • Love 2
Princess Lucky

Princess Lucky

(edited)

After pondering more on the episode and rewatching some clips: I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day, imo the Carter character deserved better than to come back as a catalyst/prop/whatever word one wants to use for Reese's emotional journey. That was so not the character of Carter when she was alive, and I can't help feeling like the character deserved better here. I wouldn't say that PoI fridged Carter, but I thought last night's ep brought us closer to fridge territory than S3 did in a way I didn't like (ie Carter's place in the narrative is all about the pain her death caused John).

    

Now, I'm not sure they could have brought Carter back in a way that truly did justice to the character, to be fair.
That's what bugged me about the ep.  A lot of the stuff John was spouting off about would have been a more relevant dialogue with Jessica.  He was, at some point, open and hopeful with her as Carter pointed out in the picture.  And that is the John she (Carter) never saw.

I can definitely see what you guys mean, and I fully admit to always giving these writers the benefit of the doubt (maybe even when I shouldn't), but to me there's a difference between "Carter" and "a hallucination of Carter". Practically there may not be a difference; it's still Taraji, it's still a female character used to propel manpain. But I just didn't feel that way. I don't see this as some sort of retroactive fridging. The show, to its credit, did not use Carter's death to "advance" Reese's character arc. Her death was felt in ripples; it affected every single character, even some villains, it was not quickly forgotten (it loomed over several episodes directly following it, plus it has been referenced very often in a respectful way), it marked the ending of a big storyline (HR) and it also marked a shift for the entire show, from half-procedural/half-sci-fi to full-on sci-fi. Her death altered the DNA of this show (which is why some viewers have stopped watching, which I fully understand, by the way; I've quit many a show after my favourite character was killed).

 

But Carter died. She is gone. This week's episode was, technically, one last chance for us to see "Carter", but in reality we did not quite see "her". And, even though the practical purpose of this episode was for Reese to have a breakthrough (in typically tragic fashion, after realising his "memories" had never happened and he had never truly shared himself with Carter even though he truly wanted to), from the character's perspective Reese wasn't using her. He was missing her. He was hypothermic, he was dying, and he conjured up the person he felt connected to the most. He had spent the entire episode working her case, actually following in her footsteps to try to feel close to her, and when he got shot it was only natural that he'd "see" her.

 

Also, I actually thought the concept of false memories was a smart way to propel Reese forward. This wasn't just "omg I miss Carter and woe is me and everyone around me dies and I am death, but Carter's ghost told me to chin up so I'll get better". Reese, at his worst, in his dying moments, didn't see Carter just as a spirit guide. There was some of that, with "Carter" representing Reese's survival instincts. But he also hallucinated an entire conversation in which he shared the most intimate truth about himself, because he needed to believe that was true before he died. He needed to believe he had not wasted his life without ever opening up to her, to anyone. That's why, in my opinion, the strongest moments of the episode came after the reveal. You could see the deep denial Reese was in, and you could see how it destroyed him to learn that none of it had been real.

 

That realisation is, I think, strong enough incentive for him to change. And while "Carter" was the catalyst for that, it wasn't really Carter. It was Reese himself, looking in. His thoughts were represented by "Carter", but she was actually the hallucination of a broken man. To me, that makes a difference. After more than a season of dealing with her death, with her loss, with several references to that death even in the most unexpected moments (which told us that Reese was simply not over it), I feel that the show earned that moment. That moment of Reese, in an hour of need, in an hour of death, breaking down for real. Not going on a violent spree, not saying a few words to a therapist, not sulking for weeks. Just opening up, talking to "Carter" the way he never did get to talk to the real Carter.

 

We had never seen that. Reese being that honest about his past. That needed to happen. And, if you think about it, wasn't Carter the best person to be on the receiving end of that conversation? The only person, really? Reese thought so, since he hallucinated that he did talk to her years earlier. But who else would do the trick? Iris? She would feel empathy but she would not understand. She knows him very little. Fusco? Zoe? Though they do get him, Reese often relies on humour to deal with those two, and I don't think he would genuinely open up. Finch? He's clearly the person Reese is the closest to now, and they've always had a fascinating bond, but they are so very different. Could Reese talk to him about being in a warzone, searching corpses, trying to be the best soldier he could? Would Finch ever understand that? When he can't even pull a trigger?

 

That's why I think that, even though writing-wise this was the episode that broke Reese open, and a female character (or the idea of one) was used to do it, this was earned. She wasn't Reese's girlfriend. She was his comrade. On another show, a warzone conversation would take place between the stoic male lead and a father figure or, well, a fallen brother-in-arms. On this show, that was Carter. Carter, who was not a stereotypical female character. She understood Reese because of her own similar experiences. And while their "conversation" also had the "you will find happiness again" element (which was sweet, if you consider it was actually Reese who kept telling himself that), it ultimately was about Reese being honest. With himself. And with Carter. Even in death. No one else would do.

 

Lastly, Carter's last words to Reese were "John, don't let this..." (change you, as many of us have guessed and as Taraji herself has said in interviews). She wanted to make sure Reese woulf be OK. That he wouldn't turn into that suicidal homeless man from the pilot again. These words must have haunted Reese, they must have affected his hallucination, and they are also the reason why, in my opinion, hallucinatory Carter did not do disservice to the real Carter.

 

/armchair psychologist

/feelings

/essay

Edited by Princess Lucky
  • Love 9
DeLurker

DeLurker

You make a  pretty compelling case there Princess Lucky.

 

Not entirely swayed, but that gives me more of a basis for the way things did go.

 

On the upside, if Reese is more open with the rest of Team Machine, I look forward to Fusco and Finch's reaction to New!Reese.  I can't decide who's WTF? reaction will be more delightful between those two.

  • Love 4
Hanna

Hanna

...

 

I noticed this when soon after Carter died and Reese was taking it harder than anyone else. I kept thinking, was there some romantic feelings they forgot to show us? Or were they closer than they led us to believe? This episode made sense of all that. Reese retrospectively wishes he'd opened up more to her, that she was more of a friend than he cared to admit when she was alive. I'd have loved to have seen him secretly checking up on her son before this episode though.

 

My thoughts about bringing her back are that they may introduce her son as a semi-regular to the cast later on.

  • Love 1
tessaray

tessaray

So this entire episode was for John to realize he has to open to the blond shrink or he will lose her.    

 

Stay. Closed. Off. John.  

 

In the altnerantive, if you must open uup to someone, may I suggest Zoe?

 

I didn't get a chance to watch the episode until last night and just the mention of the shrink was like a bucket of ice water.  Using Carter to prop that boring relationship?  John/Iris don't have any chemistry that I can see.  If they did, it might help me get past the cliches on top of the ethical issues. Not to mention, they're in the middle of a war with an omnipotent (more or less) AI. If they were working along side each other in the trenches, maybe I could buy it.  As it stands? No, not seeing it.  

 

PoI does flashbacks well, so I enjoyed the parallel investigations. But I might have cut short the ghost Carter in favor of seeing the Fusco rescue.  I do want to see Reese letting his friends in more - that would be much more satisfying than a lame romance.   (JMO, YMMV) 

  • Love 2
webruce

webruce

Loved seeing Detective Joss Carter again. I think they had this dream sequence to other then make Reese more open to others,but also to kind of cement the kiss they had before Carter was killed by Officer Simmons. It showed that Reese and Carter had a closer relationship then we might have seen before. I think it was also a nice tie up to the sudden death of Carter. She had more to say and it was said. Reese and Finch on the then Number Of the Week, BennyVelasco at the bar, which ties into the current reopen of the case Carter had worked on didn't match up for me. Carter brought then coffee. Then it jumped ot Reese at the scene of a Brotherhood/ Elias gang shooting. Carlo lived. Will he come into play in future? Fusco waking Reese from his memories. Harold told Reese that those shootings were not planned. That usually don't come up in the show. Later in the Carter/Reese soul search stake out, the Fusco appearance was cute.

I did wonder about Taylor, Josse's kid. I would have thought we would see him again.

We learned about Reese and Jessica.

It was nice to see Carter working with Detective Reymond Terney. He kind of controling the investigation and Carter was trying to keep up. It being showed to coincide with Reese reopening the investigation was a nice touch. It helped tell that story better.

I liked "Glasses and CocoPuffs"(Nice reference Lionel)limited appearences. Harold talking in the flashback about Bear eating his books. Also Roots wedding dress. They also had concerns for Reese. Even though Root said that "Harry you worry to much, the big lug can take care of himself"! POI Chase Petterson which was Carter's unsolved case. It was nice to see the duel interogation of him. It did seem easy though to find half brother Phil/Gil. And yes Chase took those pills a little to easy.Granted Phil caught Reese off guard. But still Chase atleast complain. Reese stopping Phil outside wasa good touch. But crawling to get help was a little much? I to wondered about going back into the house. But it was a long crawl. I guess Chase was saved.

Who's car came for Reese, Fusco? Couldn't he not have used lights and sirens? Even though he did not know Reese was in trouble? I didn't remember the bullet hole in Reese's driver window?

Gigi43

Gigi43

(edited)

The flashbacks to the original case helped make it easier for me that Carter was "there for Reese", as a fan of the Carter character. We got a glimpse of pre-show Carter making her way to the point of being used to the dead bodies. Most importantly, she may not have found the killer, but, she was the one who pegged Chase as NOT the killer and of course, she was right, and that had nothing to do with Reese. I liked the interrogation scene with Carter and Chase and the fact that Carter, a mother to a son, determined that he was a guy who'd never kill his mom.

Who's car came for Reese, Fusco? Couldn't he not have used lights and sirens? Even though he did not know Reese was in trouble? I didn't remember the bullet hole in Reese's driver window?

In a cast interview this past week it was confirmed it was Fusco. In the ep when Finch told him Reese hadn't checked in he mentioned the case he'd been working and Fusco seemed to be familiar with it so presumably he knew where to look up the case details and the cabin. As for the bullet in the windshield I'd like the answer to that too.

Edited by Gigi43
  • Love 2
GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

This may be a small thing, but I found it odd that in Carter's personal effects why the picture of her and her son, and anything else that was personal, wasn't given to her son.

 

I figured Reese was hallucinating the minute he pulled out the picture of Jessica and himself and said how he'd given it to Carter, when noooo, she got it in New Rochelle, and kept it to herself.

 

I fucking hate that spoiler. But I shouldn't be surprised. As far as I'm concerned, Reese and Finch are the Heart of this show. Not fucking Shaw, and certainly not fucking Root, who I wish would fucking die already. The show keeps teasing me that she'll bite it, but manages to survive. 

I've already stated; not sure if it was here or over on TWoP, but once Reese is gone, then so am I.

  But that's just me.

  • Love 3
mostlylurking

mostlylurking

As usual this show leaves me with so many questions!

 

Why couldn't the POI go for help?  Didn't the guy who gave him the drugs say he had 8 hours to live?  Or was he just rendered useless after taking the pills?

Why was there a bullet hole in the window of the car?

Why couldn't Reese get to his own car????

 

I loved seeing Carter again though.  I am interested in seeing where John goes from here.

  • Love 2
GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

As usual this show leaves me with so many questions!

 

Why couldn't the POI go for help?  Didn't the guy who gave him the drugs say he had 8 hours to live?  Or was he just rendered useless after taking the pills?

Why was there a bullet hole in the window of the car?

Why couldn't Reese get to his own car????

 

I loved seeing Carter again though.  I am interested in seeing where John goes from here.

 

Don't know why he didn't/couldn't go for help.

 

As for the bullet hole in the car, it was answered a few times up thread.  Right before commercial break, Reese reached for his ankle piece and shot Gill/Phil, but not before Gill/Phil shot Reese in the side, at which time, I'm assuming a shot also went through the window. Oh, and Reese's shot killed the murderer.

 

He couldn't get to his own car because it was hidden? That I can't remember. I think the killer's car was closer.

  • Love 2
StarBrand

StarBrand

Basically, if this episode marks a turning point in Reese's character-whether that is immediate or not-, then it will stand as an important episode. It things with Reese carry on as before, then it was a waste of time.


Perhaps it Reese is going to bite the bullet soon (and the writers have more than hinted at this), it would then be ironic if being more open contributed to his downfall..

  • Love 3
stealinghome

stealinghome

Basically, if this episode marks a turning point in Reese's character-whether that is immediate or not-, then it will stand as an important episode. It things with Reese carry on as before, then it was a waste of time.

Yeah, for me, this episode really marks the "shit or get off the pot" point with Reese and his Deep Dark Manpain Issues. It wouldn't be so bad if we hadn't had the therapy/Iris plotline running through most of the season, but I now feel like I've been hammered over the head with Reese's issues so much that my skull is about to crack in two (and the show has never been particularly subtle about emphasizing his damage to begin with). So, enough--either begin to fix John's issues or concede that they're unfixable, I don't really care which, but stop devoting so much show time to just rehashing the same.damn.thing over and over.

 

This is actually a place where I think the show really missed the boat with the cover IDs this season. If they wanted Reese to do this kind of soul-searching, instead of half-assing it with the repetitive therapy/Iris romance plot, I wish they'd given us flashes of John's "normal life" as Detective Riley--as Mr. Riley the Policeman to the kid who lives next door, as Polite Young Man to the old lady who lives upstairs, to the really cute guy that the local barrista likes to flirt with (I'm not opposed to John getting a romance but prefer it to be with someone a) who is not his therapist and b) with whom he has actual chemistry), give him a true patient/therapist relationship with Iris, etc. Reese is by far the least interesting character to me, but one of the ways in which I do think he's interesting--and very different from Finch/Shaw/Root--is that for all his bluster and fatalism, there's clearly a part of John that wants a normal life, with 2.5 kids and a dog and 2 cars and whatnot (whereas that's the life that Finch/Shaw/Root have all, in various ways, run away from at various points in their lives). Giving Reese tantalizing glimpses of that normal life/human connection as part of his cover, and seeing what it did to him to get that kind of taste of normality, would have been far more believable and interesting to me than what we've gotten this season, this episode partially excepted (partially because, like StarBrand, I'm waiting to see if the changes stick, I'm hopeful they will).

  • Love 4
DeLurker

DeLurker

This may be a small thing, but I found it odd that in Carter's personal effects why the picture of her and her son, and anything else that was personal, wasn't given to her son.

Good point about the personal effects. I was wondering while watching why an open case wouldn't be re-assigned, but stored with those personal effects? Cause it just wouldn't. But they needed a way for Reese to get the picture. Cheap and shoddy shortcut Show.

They could have just as easily gotten the file from records and had Reese pull her notebook from wherever and the notebook would conveniently have the photo stashed in it.

  • Love 2
webruce

webruce

(edited)

Someone upthread stated that Taylor Carter,Joss's son,might become a semi regular on the show? Wasn't it stated by Dominic about teens becoming number runners or something for the Brotherhood? Not sure who he is living with now, but maybe Reese/Fusco will have to work to keep him out of the numbers racket?

Edited by webruce
GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

Someone upthread stated that Taylor Carter,Joss's son,might become a semi regular on the show? Wasn't it stated by Dominic about teens becoming number runners or something for the Brotherhood? Not sure who he is living with now, but maybe Reese/Fusco will have to work to keep him out of the numbers racket?

 

 

Taylor is living with his father, who showed up a couple episodes before Carter was killed off. He'd apparently cleaned himself up and Taylor was with him when Carter was killed.

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Trillium

Trillium

Someone upthread stated that Taylor Carter,Joss's son,might become a semi regular on the show? Wasn't it stated by Dominic about teens becoming number runners or something for the Brotherhood? Not sure who he is living with now, but maybe Reese/Fusco will have to work to keep him out of the numbers racket?

I think that was more fan wish fulfillment than anything said by the show runners. I don't think they've ever said he'd be back period let alone a semi regular. I could be ok with that if it was connected to a current storyline, like Brotherhood, but not just to have Reese have a relationship with him and have them chit chat about Carter. What more needs to be said on the subject at this point? Taylor has a dad who seemed to be on great terms with him and Carter when she passed.

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stealinghome

stealinghome

Oh man, please not the Brotherhood! It would be disrespectful to Carter's memory to have anyone related to her be connected to that utter snoozefest of a "storyline"!!!

That said, I'm not opposed to Taylor coming back, but I doubt it will happen and I would definitely want it to be either in relation to one of the serialized storylines OR because he's a PoI Reese has to save. (Although now that I think about it maybe that last one is a bad idea.)

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stealinghome

stealinghome

I rewatched this episode last night as well, and I have to say, the rewatch gave me really mixed feelings. On the one hand, it seemed more emotional than on first watch; on the other hand, Carter's appearance felt incredibly gimmicky this time around in a way that it didn't the first time.

 

Still think it would have been better placed earlier in the season.

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not Bridget

not Bridget

I only began watching POI on Netflix. Loved it.  When Season 4 finally dropped, I watched the earlier shows again before tackling it. Then ran through the whole thing yet again in time for last night's premiere.  So the last time I saw this episode was yesterday.

Thoroughly enjoyed it. The show lost something with Carter's death but had & has other strengths. And she was never forgotten. Of course we didn't see her do anything "new"--she's really dead. (There is no supernatural on this show--unless you're an AI.) It was telling that Reese would "see" & "hear" his dead partner when he was on the edge of death. In service of his relationship with the shrink?  Who was a slightly ditzy blonde at first & morphed into a strawberry blonde, dressed more soberly--to make her more worthy?  I hope this shortened last season will waste little time on her.

Fusco coming to the rescue (being a Good Detective) was mentioned in the next episode.  

(Speaking of character deaths--there's the last episode of Sleepy Hollow. Which I missed & refuse to watch on Hulu--but I've read detailed accounts. That was a cheap way to handle the loss of a beloved character--the co-lead, in fact. And that show has no other "strengths" to fall back on--they were lost in the last two lackluster seasons. So it can be cancelled with no tears from me. But I'll mourn Person of Interest.) 

mtlchick

mtlchick

Huzzah for reruns.

I haven't seen the episode since it aired so knowing what John's fate ended up being...thank God he broke up with Iris when he (eventually) did.  (Their kiss was hot...the reasons how it led to that put me to sleep.)  Because I feel that Carter was his emotional soulmate.  Zoe wasn't going to be it (though I loved their flirty relationship) and he pushed Jessica away yet still pined for her in a way only to be consumed with guilt when she died.  Carter was probably the only one that understood him...or understood based on what she knew of him.  So I can see why JC constantly referred to this episode as one of his favorites; Reese was finally willing to open up to someone except that person was dead. (And as much as he learned some things about Finch, he was never going to get the full story.)  But he got a reminder that he was no longer alone: he had a weird make up of a family (and Bear) to go back to.  

It doesn't mean the episode didn't have its problems: considering I did mentally check out of season 4 until maybe a few episodes before this one, I was starting to be bored with "more manpain."  But after a while, I realized this was the most we were going to get out of one character's psyche since sometime in season 2.  

Dammit, I really miss this show.  

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