S06.E18: Loser Edit

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Still reeling from the cyber-hack at her law firm, Alicia is ambushed with questions about her leaked emails during a television interview. Meanwhile, Diane takes on a case that pits her sympathies towards gay marriage against the rights of religious freedom. An investigator starts looking into the evidence Diane used to get Cary out of prison.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5tNAzJIFJY

[whatsatool]

Another gripping one.

[merylinkid]

Hey, JP or whatever the hell his name is what if what makes your nephew happy is getting married to the person he loves?    Gay marriage is legal.   You don't want to plan gay weddings - do some other business.   Like selling stones for stoning adulterers.   Pretty sure that is in the Bible too.

 

Prady won after all.   God I gagged at every St. Alicia mention and all the talk about her integrity.   She lied her way into office.   Vision my butt.   Not that we the viwers ever say.   And something that important should not be left to fan wank.

[FuriousStyles]

HOW do the Kings have such impeccable timing?  The COTW or debate of the week was spot on with the national debate about the RFRA laws in Indiana and Arkansas dominating headlines the last couple of weeks.  And Diane definitely redeemed her lackluster defense of abortion rights with sound legal/logic regarding lgbt discrimination.

 

I don't know if its just because of my personal investment in these arguments, but I found the debate between Diane and RD's friends fantastic, and easily made this episode one of the best of the season.  I have no problem with people are anti-gay or pro traditional marriage or whatever they are calling themselves, but if someone is going to deny me and millions of other people basic civil liberties, they are going to have to come up with a better argument than a book written over 2000 years ago says its wrong.

 

I am liking RD.  He's one of the few Republican 1%ers (real or fictional) that I could actually see being friendly with.  I actually didn't mind what he said at the end, about people appreciating people who stand by their beliefs and how some Democrats (namely the top dogs over the last 20 years or so) have switched their views on gay marriage because its politically beneficial to do so.  Maybe they all really did have a genuine change of heart, but eh, I'm not counting on it.

 

On to other news...Kalinda is in sooo much shit.  I knew it from the moment PIdad showed up.  Its been a while, but I remember him being even better than Kalinda in digging up the dirt.  The man is like a walking lie detector.  Ayyy....I feel so bad for her and Diane.   

Edited April 6, 2015 by FuriousStyles

[merylinkid]

Oh yeah PIDad.   Can LockhartGardner/FlorrickAgos just put a sign saying "This is not a fucking daycare, leave your kids at home if you are here on business?"   Geez, I really hate how unprofessional people are on this show.

 

Oh and speaking of LG/FA if they are one of the biggest firms in Chicago, the Chicago legal scene is in big trouble.    If one of the biggest firms is always have money problems what are the medium and little firms doing?   Honestly, they need to figure out what is going on with FA/LG.   Instead of writing the firm as whatever is convenient that week for the story.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah, PI Dad uses his kids to "disarm" and "distract" people right before he guts them. It's gross.  He lives in a really nice neighbourhood, right, and can certainly afford childcare?  We saw his hood before.

 

I like Alicia's electric blue dress.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, what is with the constant kids on this show? Is that what most high powered lawyers do? Let kids run amok? 

 

My favorite part might have been the imagine spots of the couple walking into the bakery, each time in a different location, wearing the appropriate outfit. 

[dbell1]

It bored me. And that's pretty inexcusable for this show after tossing the "Alicia's emails are hacked" crap at us in promo after promo. Guess it's a good thing Will got shot, he doesn't have to watch the woman he loved lie about their affair.

Hey Peter, she doesn't have integrity. That was the other guy. You know, the real winner.

This episode also made me hate kids. Just duct tape them to the stroller and feed them Benadryl. That's how Internal Affairs operates? Sending Daddy Daycare PI into a law firm?

I would only be satisfied with St. Alicia taking a token buyout, then losing her S.A. job to Prady, and crawling back to Peter, who then serves her with divorce papers and launches a custody battle for Grace, the forgotten child. She can then go move in with Zack in his dorm after losing the pretty apartment.

[CMH1981]

Now it makes sense to me why Geneva Pine was so hell bent on Kalinda and not Bishop; Kalinda fucked her boyfriend over and she wants payback, and she hires Andrew Wiley, the only investigator who can out maneuver Kalinda, to do it. Damn.

I loved how Finn put the pieces together and instead of being outraged, considering it was his case basically, he decided to help Kalinda out.

I do hate that now Diane will be going down for this in a sort, even when Kalinda fesses up to it, Diane's reputation will be damaged forever. I really have a feeling that Kalinda will be leaving FA&L w/ very few friends.

So the Florrick dynasty goes down by tying Alicia's vote tampering to win the SA office to Peter's vote tampering to get the Governorship. I'm surprised by the fact that someone (Bishop or Lou Grant are my two guesses) tampered with the votes, but then again i'm not shocked b/c Alicia has aligned herself w/ some sleazy people in her bid for the office. I guess in the end Alicia and Peter really are the same person and deserve one another.

So the moral of the episode is don't fuck w/ Petra basically.

[FuriousStyles]

Alicia's plot was the least interesting for me. I actually wanted her dirty little emails to come out. Not sure how her calling them innocent flirtations mitigates the damage in any way, shape or form. From the snippets we saw, it seems those emails were very explicit. And also the emails from other lawyers about Alicia and Will's relationship.

Ive watched a lot of political type soaps the last couple of years (Scandal and House of Cards mostly) but did Peter/Eli fix his election too? For some reason when the reporter accused Alicia the first thing that came to mind was that this had happened before but then I thought I might be getting my stories mixed up.

Regarding kids, its funny because it seems like its mostly visitors that try that nonsense. That lawyer, I forget her name but she was damn good at using her kids for her benefit, even while pregnant. She and Will were great going back and forth.

Edited April 6, 2015 by FuriousStyles

[Boundary]

So metadata pushes Kalinda out of this show, not a drug kingpin, shady history, a dangerous client or love for Agent Sexy? Damn, color me surprised, it's always the small things.

[Eugenie]

So metadata pushes Kalinda out of this show, not a drug kingpin, shady history, a dangerous client or love for Agent Sexy? Damn, color me surprised, it's always the small things.

 

The metadata was always going to factor into it ever since they introduced it to the plot. That's not a surprise. But I don't know if it will be *the one thing* or the *only* thing. Maybe it'll just be part of the domino effect of a whole bunch of other things. LOL. There are four more episodes left this season and new stuff could still be introduced to throw us another curveball. The big question now is how is Diane going to get out of trouble? It seems even if Kalinda confesses, Diane will still be screwed. In other words, Diane is probably more screwed than Kalinda is at this point.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Eugenie

[Tetraneutron]

If someone had told me that in an episode with a fun scandal-y political plot, a case of the week with an ethical issue plot, and more crap about Cary's stupid arrest and Kalinda being magic, that the last one would be the most interesting? I would not have believe you.

 

It's ridiculous to finally drop the bomb about Alicia's affair, something they've basically teased since the first season and have it be . . . nothing. A sex scandal for St. Alicia, the scorned wife, an excuse to rehash all the dirty sex stuff with the freaking Governor, sexually explicit emails. And none of it ends up mattering. Peter doesn't care. Alicia threw Ramona in his face all season and has been claiming the moral high ground and Peter's fine with it? He doesn't even think what it could do to his political career? Alicia points out how bad it is that he's the cuckold and he laughs it off? For that matter, why the hell is Eli fine with it? He works for Peter, remember. And it's total bullshit that by quietly telling them to some friendly reporters it goes away. This isn't some backroom-deals-for-garbage-collecters kind of scandal. This is sex and there are leaked e-mails. This makes The Daily Show. This is Wolf Blitzer's next 10 shows.

 

Also I'm surprised everyone is taking as gospel that Alicia's campaign fixed voting machines, especially since we never saw that onscreen. Why would there be all that stuff about trying to get Martin Sheen for a robocall if they'd fixed voting machines? Besides, Alicia's the lead character here. They'd never do that to the lead character. My guess (not a spoiler) is that Alicia is innocent but this somehow ties back into the fixed voting machine for Peter. It was always stupid how they dropped it. And, if they have Will's old e-mails, well. he knew about all that. That's how they're going to bring it back up.

[Black Knight]

Go Petra! Make Alicia miserable! But it is irritating how the mud that gets thrown on her publicly is something that she had no knowledge of (if it even happened at all, which at this point is far from clear) rather than all the shit she was involved in. I hate it when shows do that, trying to force viewers to be on the side of a character who has plenty of skeletons by having them have to fight off something they're innocent of.

 

Kalinda should just run in the other direction whenever she sees Wiley. He exists to ruin her life, basically.

[CMH1981]

Nobody is saying Alicia had knowledge about her election being fixed by vote tampering, but if her PAC ( Lemond Bishop ) or Lou Grant did this w/o her knowledge she still goes down for it. Alicia aligned herself with these people w/ and w/o her stated acknowledgement.

[Eugenie]

The camera put a lot of focus on Wiley's kids. I wonder if that will play into it too, such as Wiley will have to lie too in order to protect his kids from something. I don't know. I just think they were zooming in on the food and the kids too much for it to be nothing. But then, maybe that's what they want us to think. LOL.

[Rosebud1970]

It's been making me crazy, but I can't seem to find the name of the actor who played Judge Solomon in the mock trial that R.D. had Diane act as plaintiff's attorney in.

He looked so familiar.

Any ideas?

[Eugenie]

It's been making me crazy, but I can't seem to find the name of the actor who played Judge Solomon in the mock trial that R.D. had Diane act as plaintiff's attorney in.

He looked so familiar.

Any ideas?

 

Richard Masur.

[Tetraneutron]

Nobody is saying Alicia had knowledge about her election being fixed by vote tampering, but if her PAC ( Lemond Bishop ) or Lou Grant did this w/o her knowledge she still goes down for it. Alicia aligned herself with these people w/ and w/o her stated acknowledgement.

It would still be really, really, cheap. Why would we learn last week that Redmayne gave her money, if he was just going to fix voting machines and save himself the trouble? Or that Bishop bribed the black community to vote for her, if he was just going to fix voting machines. Besides, Redmayne and Bishop can only manipulate Alicia if she knows she owes them. If they cheat behind her back, how can they boss her around? And besides that, I hope the Kings aren't that dumb. They spent all this time having Alicia make decisions and take risks, that it would be really stupid to make her the wronged angel, like she was at the beginning of the series. They've gone through all this character development, why throw it away for some cheap sympathy? Especially when it would make her look as dumb as a sack of hair? How can the audience be on her side if she's that stupid she has no idea cheating is going on in her own campaign?

 

The camera put a lot of focus on Wiley's kids. I wonder if that will play into it too, such as Wiley will have to lie too in order to protect his kids from something. I don't know. I just think they were zooming in on the food and the kids too much for it to be nothing. But then, maybe that's what they want us to think. LOL.

I don't think it means anything. All the recurring judges, defense lawyers, etc. have a gimmick and that one's his. It's also Patty Nyholm's, come to think of it. He's the crack investigator/stay at home dad, just like Patrice Lessner makes everyone say "In my opinion" and Nancy Crozier pretends to be sweet and innocent.

[tennisgurl]

Also, I so knew they would have to put in their two cents on the whole "religious freedom" thing, and being an Indiana native (you know, the current epicenter of this whole mess) I am so sick to death of hearing those two words, I was kind of dreading Diane`s subplot, mainly because I get angry whenever I think about it, but her stuff was actually the best part of the show. I actually thought the Republican guy was pretty likable, even though I strongly disagreed with his politics. He and Diane were great together. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by tennisgurl

[Eugenie]

I don't think it means anything. All the recurring judges, defense lawyers, etc. have a gimmick and that one's his. It's also Patty Nyholm's, come to think of it. He's the crack investigator/stay at home dad, just like Patrice Lessner makes everyone say "In my opinion" and Nancy Crozier pretends to be sweet and innocent.

 

I know that's his gimmick. But I thought they put too much focus on the kids, especially with Kalinda looking at the kids. Maybe I'm expecting a lot more twists and turns before it's all over. It's not as simple as…oh Kalinda is in trouble. Everyone is lying. Howell the computer guy is lying for Kalinda now too, so I kind of expect there'll be more lies from more people to throw in another twist.

[Rosebud1970]

Richard Masur.

Thank you. I knew I knew him, just couldn't place him.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing I like about Diane's storyline, both with her husband and with RD, is demonstrating that it IS possible to like and respect someone who you fundamentally disagree with about most things. It seems that in this day and age of Facebook, the hivemind mentality has made people so much more intolerant. I have seen people post status updates like, "If you own a gun, defriend me right now." I remember specifically enjoying my friendships with people with very different points of view in college because I learned so much from talking with them but now it feels like there is more of a my way or the highway attitude. I like that Diane's relationships with both men are portrayed realistically, meaning that they aren't pretending that the opposites attract principle means they magically avoid arguments. They can disagree but without hating each other.

 

Peter: I know you think I've been a dog, Alicia, and I know you think I've been a bad husband but I've never been as bad as you've wanted me to be.

 

Really, Peter? Alicia wanted you to do worse than sleeping with call girls?

 

The PI dragging his kids all over drives me crazy. It's called childcare. Look into it. The world is not a playground for your children. They are obviously going to be bored sitting in an office while you interview people and if you are going to be the lax kind of dad who waits until an hour after they've been making noise and climbing on stuff, then you should have the common courtesy not to inflict that on someone else's workplace.

[joelene]

I loved the gay wedding cake mock trial subplot. The only thing that frustrated me was that we never got a reply from the wedding planner on the hypocrisy of Diane's excellent bible divorce argument, something that also infuriates me IRL because these arguments are never answered. And if they are it's always "It's not the same" or "That's a gotcha question", which, what? Answer the damn question!

Edited April 6, 2015 by joelene

[vibeology]

Peter: I know you think I've been a dog, Alicia, and I know you think I've been a bad husband but I've never been as bad as you've wanted me to be.

 

Really, Peter? Alicia wanted you to do worse than sleeping with call girls?

And in their bed too which was heavily implied way back in season 1. Trust, Peter. You are a horrible person. Alicia's not inventing that. It's the reason I could never want to see Peter and Alicia work it out.

[Texasmom1970]

Bored with this episode, used to be no miss television for me, now not so much. Sad how this show has gone down hill for me!

[Zaffy]

Bored with this episode, used to be no miss television for me, now not so much. Sad how this show has gone down hill for me!

it sad, but it still has lot of quality, even if this season is a  big fat mess.

It frustrates me watching this cast being wasted like this.

 

So, if this show gets another season, what do you think will happen?

Will the showrunners return to the good old times when that amazing cast was interacting witch eachother? or will  continue to watch the Alicia show+the Diane show+the Cary Show + etc etc etc?

 

The PI dragging his kids all over drives me crazy. It's called childcare. Look into it. The world is not a playground for your children. They are obviously going to be bored sitting in an office while you interview people and if you are going to be the lax kind of dad who waits until an hour after they've been making noise and climbing on stuff, then you should have the common courtesy not to inflict that on someone else's workplace.

Maybe he does it on purpose. Dragging his kids to annoy the ppl who questions or even makes them feel unfocused and /or uncomfortable. Yeah, he uses his kid as a weapon :D I mean we are frustrated watching it, imagine being in their place and having to deal with it.

In any case he is an annoying character.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Zaffy

[merylinkid]

He's an investigator asking questions of people who volunteer to be interveiwed by him.   Every single one of them had the right to say "I'm not talking to as long as the kids are around."   See how far he gets in his job then.   LG/FA enabled this behavior instead of putting their foot down.   They did the same with Patti Nyholm.   If they get frustrated and distracted over someone else's unprofessional behavior, that's their own fault.   And pretty darn unprofessional for them too.

 

As for St. Alicia.   Yeah, Peter was not as bad as Alicia wanted him to be.   Yes, he slept with hookers.   Of course, there might be reasons besides the fact that he was on a power trip.    It has to be ALL his fault.   She can't have done anything wrong that led him to think that sleeping with hookers in their bed was okay.   He was the SA not the Mayor, not the Governor, not a legislator.   He was the freaking SA.   Which in TGWland is apparently the most powerful job in Chicago.   Which we know what power does.    Basically, Alicia can't admit she loved the power as much as he did.   And is really pissed that his going to jail took away that power.   Now she has it and is finding out the price you pay to get it.   But still won't admit that 1) she gets off on it and 2) she paid any price at all.   After all she is St. Alicia with a vision, therefore she would win and she owes no one anything.   

[TVHappy9463]

So is the voting inaccuracy going to bring Peter's voting issue to light.  didn't it die with Will? Not sure where the show is going with Alicia, is she going to lose and be torn down, is St Alicia finally dead?  Kalinda is going to jail?  Really that is the send off?  Diane is getting disbarred? 

Love the Diane mock trial, Oliver Platt is a great addition to the cast.  Good episode, tighter than others this season.  Sure would be happy if they got back to being lawyers.  If the King's end it all next season, good idea, it's got may be a season a left. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by TVHappy9463

[kwnyc]

I totally called the rapprochement with Peter. Alicia's going to have to both learn from him AND find herself in similar situations as SA. And at this point, she realizes she has to do it so might as well make the best of it: they are going to be colleagues, of a sort. (With 2 kids and the SA office in common).

[Tetraneutron]

As for St. Alicia.   Yeah, Peter was not as bad as Alicia wanted him to be.   Yes, he slept with hookers.   Of course, there might be reasons besides the fact that he was on a power trip.    It has to be ALL his fault.   She can't have done anything wrong that led him to think that sleeping with hookers in their bed was okay.   He was the SA not the Mayor, not the Governor, not a legislator.   He was the freaking SA. \

No, it's never the fault of the person being cheated on. People make their own decisions. You don't get to victimize someone and claim they drove you to it. Adults work out their problems. Or they get a divorce. Or they ask for an open marriage. (Just as it's not Peter's fault Alicia cheated on him with Will and Johnny). They don't cheat, and if they do they certainly don't blame their spouse. For what? Not waxing enough? Not reading interesting books? And the fact that he's SA has nothing to do with it. That applies if you want to get into how silly it is that it would have received so much attention, or that the allegations would ruin such a minor career, but it has nothing to do with whether or not the cheating was justified.

 

And I think the show made clear that Alicia never saw hereslf as St. Alicia. It was a label she chafed at more than anything else. Even during the election, there was all that stuff about St. Alicia coming into her own and being a powerful feminist image.

 

Also, now we know that Alicia's affar was common knowledge. Cary knew about it, and if he's just casually dropping it in an email, then it must have been gossip at L/G. Even Prady knew, even if he didn't have proof. How did it not come out during the Governor's race? And the most damaging thing? Alicia is a female politician who, according to leaked emails, slept her way into a job/partnership. Can you think of anything in the whole world more damaging to a woman's public image? I can't.

 

 

One thing I like about Diane's storyline, both with her husband and with RD, is demonstrating that it IS possible to like and respect someone who you fundamentally disagree with about most things.

There's a tendency among liberals, and this goes double for liberal shows, to show people from "the other side" being reasonable and people from "your side" being awful. I think for a group that prides itself so much on being data-driven and rational and not some dumb sheeple, it's a way for them to prove that they aren't part of some dumb hivemind even if it's actually true. So we get liberals like Charles Abernathy and Jeremy Breslow, who suck, and economic conservative and libertarians all over the show, who we're supposed to like. But some issues go too far. The show can show a Rand fan sympathetically (James Paisley) or a gun-rights guy (Kurt), but never, say, a racist. Or a rape apologist. Or a homophobe. The writers can't conceive of a way to make that kind of character likeable. (I think this shows that so-called liberals have pretty much given up on econ and gun rights, which is certainly reflected in US policy).

 

It's interesting that they couldn't find a way to make RD actually against gay rights. They had to have him equivocate and love his gay nephew and when it came right down to it, his whole impetus was clarifying a tiny, tiny, point of law that's arguably more about commerce than anything, and having his argument be "But Democrats are hypocrites!" Which, yes, but that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[Noreaster]

Good episode.  Not a fan of another possible election scandal but it's so random and obviously Alicia and Peter are not directly responsible so who cares. It probably won't be a big deal.  

 

Liked everything else about the episode. Guest actors are great as always. The Alicia storyline was fun with the media stuff and Eli and Josh.  I always enjoy the Alicia/Peter scenes. The Diane storyline was well-done (talk about good timing!).  There was some forward progress on the Kalinda storyline.  I guess the Wylie stuff with the kids was a little annoying, but whatever.  The quirky characters have always been a part of the show.  

[maraleia]

The LGBT story was going so well until they had Diane utter the words "sexual preference". WTF Kings its sexual orientation!!! Seriously, do they live in a bubble? Why don't they vet these stories with GLAAD before they air them?

This makes me so mad. It's 2015 not 2005.

 

Also, President Obama has never been against gay marriage. He just had to backtrack as he rose through the political ranks. Here is a link to the article which has the link to the questionnaire he filled out when he ran for the State Legislature in 1996 where he endorsed gay marriage.

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=20229

 

This is just another one in a long list of things that the Kings get wrong about Chicago and certain issues because they refuse to dig deeper. I hate this so damn much.

[Primetimer]

Thanks a lot, hackers!

Read the story

[CleoCaesar]

I liked this one! Well except for all the Alicia crap. I really wish the emails had come out; I was cheering for the reporter on that one.

 

REALLY liked all the Diane scenes, especially the ones with Oliver Platt. So good to see real actors playing off each other. Really liked the “judge” too. None of the stupid election stuff, or Eli’s yelling and bugged out eyes, or his obnoxious daughter, or whatever. The always-irritating PI with his damn kids is never a pleasant sighting either.

 

One thing I like about Diane's storyline, both with her husband and with RD, is demonstrating that it IS possible to like and respect someone who you fundamentally disagree with about most things. It seems that in this day and age of Facebook, the hivemind mentality has made people so much more intolerant.

 

 

I like this aspect too, but somehow I find it much more believable between Diane and RD rather than Diane and her husband. 

 

Peter’s “I was never as bad as you wanted me to be” showed just what an arrogant slimebag he is at his core. Fucking prostitutes, what, 18 times while married IS being pretty much the worst you can be as a husband.

 

The LGBT story was going so well until they had Diane utter the words "sexual preference". WTF Kings its sexual orientation!!!

 

 

I’ve never understood the extreme outrage over this distinction. An orientation is a preference expressed over and over, without exception. Gay people are gay because they exclusively prefer their own sex to the opposite one.

 

 

Also, President Obama has never been against gay marriage.

 

 

“I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian — for me — for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.” - April 17, 2008

 

“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage.” - Nov. 2, 2008,

 

“I am a fierce supporter of domestic-partnership and civil-union laws. I am not a supporter of gay marriage as it has been thrown about, primarily just as a strategic issue. I think that marriage, in the minds of a lot of voters, has a religious connotation." -Feb. 2, 2004

 

And so on. (Source) He's been waffling about the issue for 20+ years. This episode had it right - politicians will pander and say anything that helps them get elected.

Edited April 6, 2015 by CleoCaesar

[joelene]

I've never understood the extreme outrage over this distinction. An orientation is a preference expressed over and over, without exception. Gay people are gay because they exclusively prefer their own sex to the opposite one.

This might makes me a hypocrite but it only bothers me if some anti-gay conservative says "preference" instead of "orientation" because it comes off as deliberate wording by them insinuation "a choice". If an ally says is, like the Kings or Diane the character, then it doesn't bother me at all. And while GLAAD does a lot of good I don't consider them Voice of God with LGBTQ phrasing either.

Edited April 6, 2015 by joelene

[CleoCaesar]

Meh. I guess I don't care about the distinction largely because I don't care if it's a choice or not. People should all have the same rights whether or not they choose their beliefs/lifestyles. Religious people choose to be religious, for instance, and no one is taking away their rights. The outrage over they used preference and not orientation!! strikes me as a minor issue in the grand scheme of things.

[joelene]

Oh, I agree with that. It shouldn't be an issue even if it was a choice. But it still bothers me when conservatives uses that as a defense to judge and be bigoted, so there is slight annoyance when they use preference because it feels deliberate. Otherwise I agree that the outrage is meh.

[maraleia]

I’ve never understood the extreme outrage over this distinction. An orientation is a preference expressed over and over, without exception. Gay people are gay because they exclusively prefer their own sex to the opposite one.

 

“I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian — for me — for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.” - April 17, 2008

 

“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage.” - Nov. 2, 2008,

 

“I am a fierce supporter of domestic-partnership and civil-union laws. I am not a supporter of gay marriage as it has been thrown about, primarily just as a strategic issue. I think that marriage, in the minds of a lot of voters, has a religious connotation." -Feb. 2, 2004

 

And so on. (Source) He's been waffling about the issue for 20+ years. This episode had it right - politicians will pander and say anything that helps them get elected.

The reason why the terminology is so important is that anti-LGBT people use the "sexual preference" term to argue that gay and lesbian and bisexual people can choose to be straight. We (yes I'm a lesbian) are born this way.

Also, I do understand that politicians (including Obama) pander to people to get elected but I hate it when news outlets and shows like this get the facts wrong. It would've been better if they had used Secy of State John Kerry or former Secy of State Hillary Clinton as an example of evolving on the issue instead of Obama.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I think for a group that prides itself so much on being data-driven and rational and not some dumb sheeple, it's a way for them to prove that they aren't part of some dumb hivemind even if it's actually true.

I beg to differ. I think so-called "liberals" tend not to engage in groupthink although certain smaller factions within the overall "liberal" label do. IMO, That's one of the big reasons they have a difficult time forming consensus within the ranks on certain issues. (E.g., there are "liberals" who did not support the ACA because they felt it didn't go far enough.) Meanwhile, I think the GOPers more easily seem to fall right into lockstep with their collective eyes on the greater goal of defeating whatever it is the "liberals" want. On any given day on any given hot-button issue, I can listen to Fox news and right-leaning talk radio and hear not only the exact positions but also hear identical language used to explain those positions.

 

Also, President Obama has never been against gay marriage. He just had to backtrack as he rose through the political ranks.

In his case, I think "as he rose through the political ranks" equaled "so he didn't lose the votes of relatively conservative Black churchgoers". I doubt he would have gotten elected in 2008 if he'd come out in favor of gay marriage at that point because he probably would not have had a big chunk of the Black vote. That voting bloc likely would have stayed home on election day.

 

I actually didn't mind what he said at the end, about people appreciating people who stand by their beliefs

Ugh, I don't think there's anything admirable about standing by wrong beliefs which will likely prove to be on the wrong side of history. For example, there are still plenty of people who solidly believe things were so much better when Blacks and women knew their place and were legally required to stay in it.

 

Nobody is saying Alicia had knowledge about her election being fixed by vote tampering, but if her PAC ( Lemond Bishop ) or Lou Grant did this w/o her knowledge she still goes down for it. Alicia aligned herself with these people w/ and w/o her stated acknowledgement.

How will that work, Alicia going down for it? Will the election results be reversed and Prady declared the winner? Will she get sworn in and then immediately have to resign? Either way, I'll be so glad.

 

An orientation is a preference expressed over and over, without exception. Gay people are gay because they exclusively prefer their own sex to the opposite one.

I think perhaps both "orientation" and "preference" are lacking as descriptors but until and unless it can be undeniably determined that sexuality is genetic (and that the default state isn't heterosexuality), the debate will go on.

[CleoCaesar]

The reason why the terminology is so important is that anti-LGBT people use the "sexual preference" term to argue that gay and lesbian and bisexual people can choose to be straight.

 

 

I get the general gist of why LGBT groups think it's an important distinction. I just think the words "orientation" and "preference" aren't far enough apart from each other that it makes THAT huge of a difference. Like I mentioned above, orientation is fundamentally based on a preference (for one sex over another).

[TigerLynx]

Cheating makes Peter a lousy husband.  Cheating with prostitutes makes him a high risk for an STD so Alicia should have been done with him the minute she found that out.  There is nothing saint like in staying with a spouse you no longer love or trust.  It's just dumb.

Edited April 6, 2015 by TigerLynx

[TV Anonymous]

So Florrick, Agos / Lockhart is one of the biggest law firms in Chicago? How? F,A/L started as Florrick, Agos and Partners founded by the Coffee Shop Group. Among them, the new firm did not have enough fund even for operations. Remember that among them only Alicia had achieved partnership at L/G. Then they moved to the loft which was quite modest for a reputable law firm. Then Diane joined then other partners joined. Diane brought in her lease on the old L/G building.

 

Now, if the Coffee Shop Group started with minimum capitals, how did the firm grow that big in such a short time? The only plausible explanation is that the new partners from L/G brought the equity and the cases for them to work on. If that is the explanation, then the equity from the new partners surely eclipses that of the Coffee Shop Group, and with that their ownership as well. If this is the explanation than the question is, why does the Coffee House Group agree to this arrangement? Were the partners from the old L/G not the reason why they resigned and founded Florrick Agos?

 

So who is this Wiley character? His totally absurd behavior aside, I remember him as a private investigator. But how is it that he investigates a case for the government? Is it common for the government to outsource their investigation?

 

Is Finn Polmar a partner / associate with F,A/L? I thought he had his own practice?

[HyacinthBucket]

I really hate the thought of losing Kalinda, especially when she was only trying to save a very desperate Cary from being unfairly imprisoned.  And then we have Alicia, who has everyone scrambling around, lying for her to cover up HER lies and transgressions, and trying to keep her in a position she doesn't deserve.  I am really rooting for Alicia to fall hard.

[KaveDweller]

Is Finn Polmar a partner / associate with F,A/L? I thought he had his own practice?

 

I think he opened his own practice, but is renting office space from FAL.

 

Regarding the vote fixing...I don't even necessarily believe it happened at all (let alone by Alicia's campaign).  I think that reporter is justifiably pissed and made that up to taint Alicia's win.

[CMH1981]

 

How will that work, Alicia going down for it? Will the election results be reversed and Prady declared the winner? Will she get sworn in and then immediately have to resign? Either way, I'll be so glad.

 

The one way I think she could go down would be a recall vote, and the distaste of the Florricks could lead to the downfall of one or both.

[swimmyfish]

I really liked this episode. I found Diane's debate with the Conservative "think" tank very well done and, like someone mentioned above, thought the best part of the episode was the repeated reenacting of the gay couple's experience in the bake shop. Sometimes, the little touches can go a long way.

 

I also really liked RD. I think this character comes the closest to having somewhat reasoned beliefs, rather than just being a straw man character as on so many other shows (like Michael's parents on a recent episode of Scandal), even if his beliefs do still basically boil down to 'I don't want to discriminate against gay people, I just don't want them to have the same rights as everyone else."

 

As for Alicia's plot, I think the King's delivered their thesis statement for this season with the reporter saying that people like to see their heroes fall. I hope they deliver on that promise, too, even though I don't actually believe Alicia's campaign had anything to do with the voter fraud. What I would like to see happen is have it turn out that Petra found something in the old emails regarding Peter's election shenanigans, but then reported it as pertaining to Alicia; that would put Alicia in the position of only being able to clear her name by admitting she knew about Peter's voter fraud all along and did nothing to address it, which would just tarnish her all over again. It would be a great way to acknowledge that Alicia has been shady for a while, and bringing down the whole Florrick dynasty would add an interesting dimension to Alicia and Peter's relationship. That, btw, is all speculation, no spoiler.

 

I think I may be a Peter apologist. May it's Chris Noth's appeal, but when he waggled his eyebrows, I was all "Yeah, I'd hit that."

 

And Finn! Always wear glasses. They look so good on you.

 

Kalinda's story would, I think, be more interesting if I didn't know the actress was leaving the show. I'll miss her, but right now it feels like just dragging out the inevitable.

[Eliz]

The "give me a dollar" is my least favorite legal fakeroo in tv and movies. Not only is paying a lawyer NOT necessary to create a lawyer-client relationship protected by privilege; but if Kalinda doesn't know why she's giving the dollar, then giving the dollar fails to create the relationship. A relationship is created if both parties intend for one to be created. If Kalinda says, "I'm coming to you because you're a lawyer and I need legal advice," and Finn says, "okay, shoot," that's it, whatever comes next is privileged.

My one other lawyer nitpick is on the whole leaked email story-line. While the inter-office trash-talk is amusing, and the Will and Alicia affair is juicy, the real problem for a hacked law firm would be the disclosure of privileged emails. It would be a major, major deal.

[TigerLynx]

It was interesting seeing Eli and Peter in political CYA mode, but I'm baffled as to why anyone would care that Alicia might have cheated on her cheating husband.  The vote rigging seems like a much better scandal/story.

 

I liked Diane's and Oliver Platt's scenes.

 

Kalinda, Diane, Cary, and possibly the firm are so screwed.

 

I like that the house of cards could come down on everybody except it probably won't.  If all of this, just disappears or magically goes away, I'm going to be so annoyed.

[Kel Varnsen]

Haven't they done the whole thing before where a reporter appears to be chasing one issue but then at the last minute it is revealed that they were really investigating some much worse issue?

The Diane plot was interesting. Makes me wonder though, if a gay couple could sue a wedding planner for denying them service, could they sue a priest for refusing to officiate their wedding as well?