S03.E18: Public Enemy

[nksarmi]

I don't know that episode was just . . . whatever. I really hate this R'as storyline.

I'm also done with all the Lances. Over it. I don't understand the level of vitriol directed at Oliver from Quentin. Basically in the span of, what, like 2-3 episodes we've seen a relationship between Oliver and Lance, that took 2 1/2 seasons to cultivate, completely disintegrate due to LL's decision to keep Sara's death a secret. I get Lance is grieving, but the anger at Oliver/Arrow seems really excessive. Sort of the same way Ray's did last week.

It would have worked better if R'as had told Lance that Malcolm killed Sara and Oliver was protecting him. I could have bought the anger over that. And at least that is actually Oliver's fault.

And why would Lance just believe R'as? At least when Slade spilled the beans to Laurel last year she actually, you know, investigated and found proof Slade was telling the truth.

Bleh. Arrow's real villain this season is logic.

YES, YES, YES!  Logic has been missed this season as much as Oliver Queen!

 

And yes, Ras telling Quentin about Merlyn would have definitely explained what followed so much better!  I have been so bothered by Quentin's anger because first I wanted Laurel not only to tell him it was her idea, but I also wanted her to tell him that she didn't want to tell him until they knew who did it.  Because to me - that is something he could understand.  He probably would have still been angry - but if Laurel told him she thought something bad might happen to him during the investigation and she believed only the Arrow could get justice for Sara - maybe he could have understood that.

 

Then later if he confronted her about Merlyn being the guilty party and why hadn't the Arrow gotten justice yet - then Laurel would have been unable to defend Oliver (because neither she nor any of the rest of us understand this!) and Quentin's subsequent anger would have made sense. I would have loved to hear Quentin rail about how Arrow was inconsistent - killing some bad guys, but not others, bringing some bad guys to justice, but letting his daughter's murderer go free, etc.... That would have been a better rant to me than the crap we got.

 

No one made anyone into criminals - you can't put your decisions and other's at Oliver's feet (at least we know where Laurel gets her deflection trait from).  And who gives a bloody damn if Sara ended up on the island?  I can't believe Lance never asked her what happened after the boat crash anyway!  Ugh.

[dtissagirl]

The only reason I can think of that they're still not doing anything about the fact that Merlyn killed Sara -- not even when Quentin needed real motivation to be super mad at Oliver --  is because Malcolm said that no prison on the planet can ever hold him, way back in 304, and the writers really really really believed him.

[AyChihuahua]

"I know he played it off as more of a confirmation of what he suspected, which he did say to Laurel "On some level, I always knew but didn't care as long as he was being the good guy". I thought PB played the scene with Ra's a little too cool. But then I was thinking about the final scene with Quentin and Oliver. Oliver's face when he saw Roy being arrested, not just shock that Roy has done but almost like it really fucked up something else. Anyway, I have to rewatch it to see if I still think this was a grandiose scheme between QL and OQ."

I really think you're giving the writers way too much credit. I think they really just are writing him that stupid. Among other reasons I think that, why all the drama (and hitting, hello battery charge for you, Lance) in the van? I think we're all spending time trying to come up with ways this season will retroactively make any sense, and it's just not going to happen. And again, I see no reason to think S4 will be any better, when the showrunner and writing staff will be the same. I really think this season is the end of Arrow being a good show.

[kismet]

Seriously, why did Sara never tell her family she was on Lian Yu??? She could have kept out the bad parts. But that's water under the bridge now. Oliver Queen and apparently everyone else on the show can now blame him for anything bad that has ever happened. Good thing the Nanotech worked, otherwise that probably would have been his fault too.

 

Anyway, what I took away from Ras's little truth bomb about Sara being rescued from Lian Yu by Nyssa is - what was Nyssa doing on Lian Yu? Are there more conspiracies about this island that we are not aware of? Everything seems to be linked back to that island. If they start showing polar bears on the show, I know they've officially run out of original ideas.

[Delphi]

If that's the case, last season was actually the case of Arrow being a good show.

[kismet]

The only reason I can think of that they're still not doing anything about the fact that Merlyn killed Sara -- not even when Quentin needed real motivation to be super mad at Oliver --  is because Malcolm said that no prison on the planet can ever hold him, way back in 304, and the writers really really really believed him.

But apparently a poorly lit loft with a large fireplace is just the right amount of security to hold him.

[Lady Calypso]

Well, at least Quentin didn't do the 'did I leave the oven on?' face when Ra's told him Oliver was the Arrow.

 

Ok, I'm gonna start off with the good, which is Roy freaking Harper. Not only is he getting the best character development, he's the most logical and best this season. I enjoy that his Mirakuru arc is still not done, and there are still repercussions. MVP of this horrible season of character assassinations. I'm just glad Roy's not dead, let me tell you that. And, furthermore, I hope he does NOT die this season. If you must, keep him in jail for the rest of the season, but do not kill him off. My poor heart will break if you do.

 

I'm having issues with Ray. I totally skipped last episode so I managed not to watch his stupid storyline last episode, but I couldn't do that this episode. I really wanted him to die. Poor Brandon Routh; he's trying so very hard to save his character by making him as funny as possible, but it's just not working. His storyline was so stupid; it took Felicity away from the main storyline, sidelined her from helping out and although it was nice to see Mama Smoak, it just was the most inappropriate time to have this storyline come into this episode. What if Quentin had sent cops after all of Oliver's accomplices? Felicity would be target #1 and she wouldn't have had a clue. And really, she chose to stay with Ray over her team? That's ridiculous. Everything about Ray makes me want to tear my eyes out. 

 

But...I did laugh at Ray telling Felicity he loved her and she said nothing. You know, for all that Felicity does for Ray and Oliver, they are still the first ones to say it to her and she hasn't said it back to either yet. It's kind of funny, actually. 

 

"Him...and the three of you. Makes sense." YES QUENTIN, YOU KNEW THIS ALREADY. Ok, maybe not Diggle, but everyone else! 

 

At least Laurel wasn't included in the precinct scene. It started with Felicity and Diggle (and then Roy). Which, BTW, SHOULD MAKE THEM IN THE OPENING, NOT LAUREL AND FUCKING RAY. 

 

I'm....standing Laurel right now. She wasn't outright horrible this episode, and there was little of her, which is good.

 

My heart actually broke during the Oliver/Quentin scene at the end. I will say that that was one of the most powerful scenes this season has had yet. Quentin's anger, his words being what Oliver has probably been thinking about himself, the realization that he wasn't wrong, all of it was just breaking my heart for both of them. I think that's the only thing that saved this whole manhunt plot for me. SA and PB were breaking my heart, along with CH. 

 

Man...the episode, at certain parts, was really well done (the chase scenes, the last three minutes, Roy) but as a whole, the episode felt disjointed. The flashback scenes, though they fit, I didn't feel like I needed them. Felicity/Ray/Mama Smoak, just no. Nyssa coming in for one scene to saving Laurel from her own father. Ridiculous. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by jessied112

[Delphi]

But apparently a poorly lit loft with a large fireplace is just the right amount of security to hold him.

There's a question, what happened to all the police that raided Thea's apartment and find Malcolm? Are they dead and Oliver is to blame or did Malcolm go into hiding after he saw the news?

[Morrigan2575]

If anyone is interested

 

« public enemy »

Oliver: 21mins, 2secs
Laurel: 10mins, 42secs
Diggle: 7mins, 39secs
Thea: 2mins, 58secs
Felicity: 13mins, 14secs
Roy: 10mins, 39secs
Malcolm: 0mins, 6secs
Quentin: 12mins, 28secs

 

« season totals (so far) »

Oliver: 6hours, 27mins, 48secs
Laurel: 2hours, 31mins, 46secs
Diggle: 2hours, 34mins, 23secs
Thea: 1hours, 38mins, 34secs
Felicity: 3hours, 13mins, 12secs
Roy: 2hours, 25mins, 12secs
Malcolm: 56mins, 37secs
Quentin: 51mins, 5secs

 

http://forgingfire.tumblr.com/tagged/screentime

Edited April 2, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

I was actually convinced Nyssa rescued Sara from Lian Yu. Something about Sara winding up on the shore after the sinking of the freighter. But I can't find the scene and many of you said no one ever said that, so it must have been either the EPs or one of the actresses in some interview.

 

To the amazing gifs finders on this board: My reign for a gif of the cop with Psycho!Oliver's  photo :)

Edited April 2, 2015 by looptab

[Delphi]

http://olivcrqueen.co.vu/post/115258465984/i-want-pictures-of-queen-distributed-through-every

There you go.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Delphi

[nksarmi]

Whoever asked about Roy and Thea being out of place because she's stayed at his place and they went to the wedding together - I will just assume that Roy continues to be the second most awesome and romantic guy on the show (with Diggle being the first) so that when Thea showed up at his place asking if she could stay there - they just cuddled up, watched tv, and he was totally supportive without sex for a couple of weeks.

[looptab]

http://olivcrqueen.co.vu/post/115258465984/i-want-pictures-of-queen-distributed-through-every

There you go.

LMAO Thank you!

[kismet]

Not to state the obvious~~ but why didn't the police just use his current booking photo they had from the last few times they arrested him?? Is the SCPD that incompetent that they forgot they had an arrest photo on file?? Or is the production team that overtaxed or under-budgeted that they forgot about the photo?? How much attention/$$ is being thrown away at things unrelated to the original Arrow? Did love the douchbag photo coming back though, I mean someone in the prop dept must be really proud of that photo.

[Chaser]

Reading all these comments about Quentin's ties to the Arrow, Ra's lack of motivation, Malcolm eating popcorn at Thea's penthouse, all the plot holes in general.

 

Good Lord, The Stupid  

Edited April 2, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[nksarmi]

kismet - maybe that was part of the evidence that got stolen by Brick earlier this season?

 

You know - as much as I love Roy's sacrifice.  I have to say that logically speaking with all the news coverage of a guy running around in green and a guy running around in red - wouldn't the police have just arrested both of them?  I'm not sure Roy's confession is really enough to get Oliver off the hook, but I'll go with it because I need Oliver Queen back next season and I can't have that if he is 100% outed as the Arrow.  Or at least, if he is - I have to come up with a reason why his actual murders in season one would be overlooked - hmmm maybe that evidence was stolen by Brick as well and Oliver can just claim that he never killed anyone????

[Delphi]

I think it was just supposed to be a tiny moment for humour in an otherwise depressing episode, because we all know what lance wanted to say.

http://arrowswithwifi.tumblr.com/post/115264189491/what-captain-lance-wanted-to-say-gif-credit

[Primetimer]

Oliver's habit of breaking the law, combined with Quentin's anger about Sara, result in bad news for Team Arrow.

Read the story

[calliope1975]

Is he the Gaston from the movie or theme park Gaston?  Because theme park Gaston is pretty damn awesome.

 

 

Oh movie for sure. Ray wishes he was theme park Gaston with his one armed push ups.

 

I'm over the Lance family of self-righteous liars. Sara wasn't a child. Her decisions cost her horribly, but no one forced her to get on the boat starting this whole mess. I get lashing out in grief, but I'm afraid none of the wrongness of Lance and Laurel's subsequent actions will ever be addressed. I can only hope that

when Lance meets Joe West, he can get some perspective.

[AyChihuahua]

Lowest ratings I've seen in awhile:

0.8/3 2.36.

Personally, I'm THRILLED about that. Actually really want it to go down to like .5/1. That's the only thing that will get them to fire Guggie and fix this mess of a show. I'm so bummed, because I wanted to watch the next epi and Oliver's crossover, but removing Diggle and Felicity from the opening is unforgivable.

[Delphi]

Do the producers edit the opening or is it like the previews where the cw just mashes together whatever they think will get people to tune in?

[KirkB]

I was so annoyed by seeing Ray in the credits. Irrationally so, considering I don't really care about the guy.

 

John Barrowman probably gets a kick from being paid an outrageous amount of money for a five second scene of him watching TV. I too expected a pull back with him surrounded by dead cops.

 

Ra's plan confuses me. He wants Oliver to be his heir, for some reason. So he decided to dress up in an Arrow suit, and get some of his people to do the same, and run around Starling killing criminals, which is exactly what Oliver used to do, instead of killing cops and innocents, which would turn the city against Oliver a hell of a lot faster. Then he kidnaps Quentin and tells him who the Arrow is so the manhunt will go from the hooded guy to Oliver Queen. All so Oliver will have nowhere else to turn but the League. Except, if he knew Oliver at all he'd realize Oliver is a guy who takes the blame for everything, whether it is his fault or not, and rather than taking the express train to Nanda Parbat like everyone else he turns himself into the cops. Oliver's going to have a hard time running the LoA from jail.

 

Shado has a twin sister neither she nor her father ever mentioned. Okay. But last time I checked there are quite a few people in Hong Kong. What are the odds Oliver would just happen to run into her? Honestly, I have never been fond of the flashbacks in general, but these don't even seem to make any narrative sense. At least some of the earlier ones involved Slade or Oliver was reminiscing about how he learned torture as he was deciding whether or not to torture someone else. What purpose are they serving here? Other than filling time.

 

Nyssa's sudden arrival might have to do with her seeing the news and assuming (correctly) Laurel would be in trouble. And beating up on Quentin allowed her to vent some of her actually, legitimate father issues. Laurel can shut up about hers. But I understand why she refused to help Oliver and co. against the League. She may be pissed at Ra's for betraying her but he is still her father, and even if her loyalty to him is in question now she is still loyal to the League as a whole. They are a bunch of ruthless killers but they are HER ruthless killers.

 

Ray's nanotech kind of pissed me off. If he is even half the philanthropist type he acts like he would have had that stuff being worked at non-stop (screw the ATOM suit), perfected, patented, approved and sent out to every medical facility in the country as soon as possible. He could do a lot more good with it than he ever will with his knock off Iron Man routine.

 

Roy takes one for the team again. First he gets electrocuted, then he goes to jail.

[paigow]

Can Ra's take Felicity on a date next? They need to discuss this.

Ra's: Miss Smoak, you look radiant! When Oliver takes over for me, I would like you to join him as CIO / CTO. My predecessor was negligent in this area and allowed our infrastructure to become, quite frankly, the laughingstock of other global crime organizations....

[catrox14]

Not to state the obvious~~ but why didn't the police just use his current booking photo they had from the last few times they arrested him?? Is the SCPD that incompetent that they forgot they had an arrest photo on file?? Or is the production team that overtaxed or under-budgeted that they forgot about the photo?? How much attention/$$ is being thrown away at things unrelated to the original Arrow? Did love the douchbag photo coming back though, I mean someone in the prop dept must be really proud of that photo.

 

Because they wanted to use the photo that makes Oliver look like a serial killer. Seriously. 

[Chaser]

Ra's: Miss Smoak, you look radiant! When Oliver takes over for me, I would like you to join him as CIO / CTO. My predecessor was negligent in this area and allowed our infrastructure to become, quite frankly, the laughingstock of other global crime organizations....

Honest to Truth.

[apinknightmare]

Do the producers edit the opening or is it like the previews where the cw just mashes together whatever they think will get people to tune in?

I don't pay too much attention to the scenes used in the opening, but I always thought they rotated them every few episodes? Could be wrong.

[Menrva]

Finally watched it and I can't add anything more to what's already been said. The Lances disgust me and I'm doomed to disappointment because Laurel will never suffer any consequences for her shitty behaviour, yadda yadda yadda…

 

But Oliver's face when he turned himself in to Quentin Lance, that just broke my heart a little. Stephen Amell continues to impress me with his subtlety. 

 

Poor Roy. I kind of want to give him a hug.

 

Still want to smack Ray. His confused puppy face after Felicity ran away from his ILY warmed my black heart. Yeah, suck it, Ray. He'd like to think he's Flynn Rider, but no, he's Gaston. Maybe slightly less of a dick than Gaston. Then again, he did electrocute Roy, so…no, he's still a dick.

[Password]

This episode proved Ray as a character is lost for me. He didn't even irritate me though his arrogance about the nanotech astounds me. It did however prove that he's of far more use using his brain to help people than becoming Raybocop. If ever I wanted a "superhero" to find another way, it's Ray. Did he just have the nanotech lying around for a rainy day? It should've been tried and tested and patented ages ago Ray! To make matters worse, Mama Smoak told Felicity to risk killing Ray. Her own boyfriend! I was deeply disappointed Mrs Smoak. I generally didn't mind the hospital scenes. I definitely mind that Felicity was not. In. The. Action. Come on, show!

When I saw Ra's walk out to talk to Oliver I immediately said "ah he's still here, does he have time shares!" Seriously talk about micro management. Deeply disappointed by Maseo tbh.

Quentin unfortunately didn't garner my sympathy. We've been through this Quentin. Don't you dare smack Oliver (although I strangely didn't begrudge him that simply because he should've done it two years ago).

Oliver loved Shadow, he loves the Lances (we know) and he loves Felicity. He's really in touch with whom he loves, dear boy.

Side note: Roy and Thea had sex with the news on. OK.

Really wanted to bear hug Oliver. Boy needs it badly.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Password

[kismet]

With all this talk of Disney princes, Gaston, and villian v. hero, I was beginning to think I was watching Once upon a Time. I sinceriously expect this all to be explained by a magical book... Perhaps that's what Roy was reading a few weeks ago?? No wonder he was able to save the day, it was all explained in the magic book. Of course how are we gonna get happy endings now that he is in jail and no one is there to read the book? Roy is totally becoming the Henry of this season. Let's hope there is no peter pan obsession MG is trying to work-out, its bad enough he's still trying to get over his Batman obsession.

[SmallScreenDiva]

So this apparently happened last night. Too bad we didn't get to actually see it *sigh* Would have made my shipper heart happy.

 

[Password]

Oh come on show!

[blackwing]

I really hope that this episode signalled the beginning of the end of the road for Ray Palmer.  I'm annoyed that he made it into the opening credits as "others have taken up the call".  He's not part of the team!  With Felicity acknowledging that she is torn between two men, I hope she just sends Ray packing.

 

Hasn't Lance encountered Roy in costume before as Arsenal?  Roy looks completely different in costume than Oliver.  He's much skinnier and leaner.  Lance can't make the connection that this could be Arrow's red garbed sidekick?

 

I'm a bit surprised at how much I have come to like Laurel now that she is fully on Team Arrow and defending Oliver against her father every step of the way.

[looptab]

So this apparently happened last night. Too bad we didn't get to actually see it *sigh* Would have made my shipper heart happy.

 

i saw this being posted around. Do you happen to know where did it come from? Was it an official account of the show?

[catrox14]

So this apparently happened last night. Too bad we didn't get to actually see it *sigh* Would have made my shipper heart happy.

 

 

Those assholes! Why would they edit that out???  As Dean Winchester would say, "Those guys are dicks" (mostly about angels but still! 

[Misanthrope]

"WHO CALLED THE MEETING? Oliver, using the special Arrrowphone that connects directly to Quentin."

I know it's a typo, but am I the only one who read that in a pirate voice?

[SmallScreenDiva]

i saw this being posted around. Do you happen to know where did it come from? Was it an official account of the show?

 

It's from the TV Junkies site. It looks like it's part of the promo stills? There are other photos in there with Diggle and Roy that were not part of the "official" release. (X)

[Menrva]

"WHO CALLED THE MEETING? Oliver, using the special Arrrowphone that connects directly to Quentin."

I know it's a typo, but am I the only one who read that in a pirate voice?

In my head, Oliver is actually the Dread Pirate Roberts, so…works for me! ;)

[TVHappy9463]

That was a very tight episode, wrapped up a few things, launched a few new things.  Roy sacrificing himself was a great moment, and the bro-nod between him and Oliver was spot on.  I liked having Felicity separated from the team while all this was going on, it gives the character more potential to appear in the spin off cross overs, just like her flirtation with Barry when he was on Arrow made her the natural for the first x-over to The Flash. EBR can be all the comic shows on The CW, love her, bring it!

I am over Olicity, they have mis-manged the story line to the point where I do not care if they get back together. If you want to see how its done see Buffy/Spike, that relationship you cared about. Part of the problem is SA while hot and a fine action man, he lacks something in the feeling department, his acting just doesn't get it done.  EBR carries all those scene emotionally.  Brandon Routh on the other hand, gave me a case of the sads when Felicity didn't say I love you back. Usually his eyes have that mischievous glint, and he has that dimple. When she didn't say  love you back, his face died, that was a true moment and nice work from BR.  

The rest was good, everyone turned in A game work and I am definitely on board for what will happen now.  

[kismet]

It's from the TV Junkies site. It looks like it's part of the promo stills? There are other photos in there with Diggle and Roy that were not part of the "official" release. (X)

Sorta goes with the theme of this season the unofficial stuff is often better than the official stuff.

[catrox14]

 

Part of the problem is SA while hot and a fine action man, he lacks something in the feeling department, his acting just doesn't get it done.  EBR carries all those scene emotionally

 

I'm just the opposite here. I think SA is not as obvious in his emotional scenes and that makes complete sense to me because Oliver is so repressed that it only ekes out now and then and when it does it's wonderful. But I think he goes very internal and most of Olive's emotional scenes are IMO on his face and in his eyes.  I love EBR but I think her crying is not as natural as I would prefer.  That said her and SA just have the best chemistry. YMMV

[tv echo]

I now hate Quentin again - and what's with the police brutality (hitting a bound prisoner)?  I think a lot of Quentin's vendetta against Oliver is just displaced anger because he can't fully vent his anger at his beloved daughters.  Sara was the one who should've told him about her time on Lian Yu, but she's dead.  Laurel is the one who should've told him that Sara was dead, but Laurel is still his daughter.  He may be angry with her right now, but he still loves her and isn't going to hurt her or put her in prison. 

 

At the end when Roy told the police he's the Arrow and uncovered his head - I half expected Diggle to emerge in Arrow costume and say "I am the Arrow", and then Felicity to emerge in Arrow costume and say "I am the Arrow."  (Someone else here referred to Roy's Spartacus moment?)  Roy is just following the self-sacrificing example set by Oliver, his mentor.  Maybe this will make Oliver think twice about what he's doing - and its effect on impressionable proteges.

 

In my mind, I believe that Felicity doesn't say ILY back to Oliver and Ray because the last two times she told a guy she loved him, something happened and they left (her father, Cooper).

 

They should just cut the intro altogether and jump right into each episode, with maybe one shot of the title (like what Castle does).

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tarotx]

EBR's crying throws me out of the emotion. It doesn't necessarily seem fake but out of place with the rest of Fecility.

SA has gotten so much better.Imo he's a good actor now.

Also OT but I don't think Spike and Buffy is the way to do a relationship. It was aggressive for sure which was HOT at times but dumpster sex and balcony sex while watching her friends and both parties not understanding what No means or when to stop? EW.

Team Scooby like team Arrow was what made both shows work. Not the romances.

IMO.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tarotx

[paigow]

Side note: Roy and Thea had sex with the news on. OK.

It was not really his fault...Roy activates all appliances and home electronics in a 20 ft radius just by being there.

[Password]

Residue electricity? He got lit up

[Actionmage]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d8/7b/a2/d87ba29abc3616d979229c22b14ee05f.jpg

 

(I hope I did this right ::crosses  fingers::)

[wonderwall]

THAT MADE ME SO HAPPY! My handle for disqus is justgotlittup :p 

[benteen]

As much as I enjoyed this episode, the more I think about it the more I realized how much of a mess the writing is this season.

 

-This episode further confirms that Oliver seemingly has no idea how to deal with Ra's.  A few episodes ago he stupidly decided to rescue Malcolm (his refusal to kill or have Malcolm the mass murderer killed has been the source of ALL his problems this season) but had no idea how to get out of that accept that if he got caught, he was willing to beg for Diggle's life.  He goes in and gets himself caught.  No plan.  After Ra lets him go, Oliver refuses to consider the idea that Ra probably had a reason for doing this.  When the League starts killing criminals, he again chooses the dumbest strategy and surrenders to the police.  Not exactly a great year for Oliver in the planning category.

 

-As another poster pointed out, if Ra had told Quentin that Oliver was inexplicably sheltering Malcolm, it would COMPLETELY justify Lance's rage against Oliver.  Oliver the hypocrite is sheltering his daughter's murderer and the man who killed over 500 people in the Glades.

 

-Again, I don't know how Roy can possibly take the blame for Oliver's crimes when Oliver turned himself in and admitted that.  The writers basically want to convince us that everyone is just stupid.  However, if they are going with the storyline that Roy will take the fall for Oliver's crime, then this HAS to end Quentin's career.  This would be the second time that Quentin (VERY publicly) falsely accused Oliver of being the Arrow.  At best, the perception would be that Quentin is an incompetent cop.  At worst, Quentin would be look at as a man obsessed with Oliver Queen and a man who has a personal vendetta against him.

 

-Lance wants to arrest the Arrow.  Even if you buy that he didn't know who Oliver is, he KNOWS that Roy is Arsenal and he knows that Felicity works with the Arrow.  It shouldn't be too hard to find the Arrow if you go after them.

 

-Finally, the Ray creating a miracle drug thing is ridiculous.  As another poster pointed out, if Ray has created a miracle medical nanotechnology, then he should stop wasting millions (billions?) of dollars on his stupid suit and invest all of his money and efforts into these miracle drugs and medical technology.

[Starfish35]

I thought the episode was just depressing. I don't know. I don't really like "getting chased by the cops" storylines. I'm sure there's a trope name for it but I don't know what it is.

I think the larger part, though, is that this whole season is completely undermined by the stupidity of the Protecting Malcolm Merlyn storyline. The last couple of episodes have kind of forgotten about that, but it's hard to take any of these dramatic developments seriously when it all goes back to the fact that none of it would have happened if Oliver had turned Malcolm over to Ra's in the first place. I'm just....not going to get over that I guess. If they had somehow managed to get here without sacrificing the integrity of the characters, I think it would all feel more earned to me.

The other major thing.....I realized tonight that I'm just never going to be able to deal with Laurel in the suit. I'm sorry, but I think she looks ridiculous and I just cannot take her seriously. *sigh* YMMV.

ETA: Mama Smoak was a ray of sunshine. :)

Edited April 3, 2015 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

While there were parts of this episode that I liked, most of it was too concerned with characters I don't care about.  I'm sorry, MG, you can tell me that the show needs to move beyond Oliver/Diggle/Felicity, but I just don't care about the others as much.  I need a certain amount of O/D/F + Roy to enjoy the episode. Given me that, and I can branch out to Merlyn and even Laurel and Ray.  But not Ra's. The whole concept of why Ra's wants to force Oliver to take the Heirship just makes no sense at all.

 

Mama Smoak arriving at the hospital because she heard on the news that Ray was hurt, and then saying she never listens to the news because it's depressing (I feel ya, Donna) was another "we fucked up" for the show.  Maybe they need to hire an intern to go over the scripts for continuity.

 

l hate that they have Diggle saying Felicity isn't answering her phone, when there is no way she wouldn't  answer, knowing there's someone around shooting people pretending to be Oliver, and that Lance is out to get him. Like, the situation was escalating pretty quickly, she wouldn't make herself unreachable.

I assumed that the ICU in the hospital had a "no cell phones" rule because they interfered with the equipment. Last month when I was in a hospital, there was a sign saying that (oops).

 

On the other hand, there was Donna Smoak, who is officially the best thing to happen this whole stupid season. And I wasn't thrilled with all of her characterization here, but it honestly doesn't matter because Charlotte Ross just nails it in the subtlety of her scenes with EBR. That "I knew it in five" line was delivered perfectly, and it elevated that scene from something that would have felt like it belonged more on HIMYM than Arrow, to something that felt like real emotion, like real human relationships.

 

She almost makes up for Susanna Thomspon being gone, but not really since this is only her second episode.  But the scenes between Donna and Felicity feel real, like a mother and duaghter who have had their problems and who are very different, but who love each other and really try their best, especially Donna.  It wouldn't work in a lesser actress' hands, but with Charlotte Ross, Donna is a real, muli-layered character, not just comic relief.

 

First of all, I found it a ridiculous notion to even have the thrombi be a major factor in the show. It was just another poor choice for their Make Us like Ray campaign.

Warfarin/coumadin is a pill form, there are also other pills that help reduce the risk of clotting. There are generally 2 type of IV drugs that help to break up clots tPA & Heparin. There are also low-molecular heparin based injections that help reduce clotting or the potential for clotting. These IV, pill & injection drugs are generally safe but need close monitoring. There are certain protocols and rules to using not using them. But they are standard practice. Unless Ray was actively bleeding somewhere, I can't imagine that they would have tried those.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

It really was sloppy writing.  If Ray had such a dangerous clot, why wasn't he immobilized instead of chatting to his visitors?  Why was he allowed visitors?   And if he has nanotech that can saves lives like that, why is he hiding it away for himself instead of testing it so other people can benefit from it?

 

On Grey's Anatomy, they would just have had one of the Drs. Shepherd go in and pull that sucker out.

When they panned camera across Merlyn watching the news after saying they'd sent officers for Oliver at his "house," I fully expected the wide/pull-back to reveal four dead cops sprawled at his feet while he wiped his hands with a hankie.

 

That would have been awesome, and justified Malcolm still being alive at this point for me.

Edited April 3, 2015 by statsgirl

[twoods]

If this show kills off Roy I am done with this show. He has been the highlight of this season, and has been so self sacrificing. Please don't go there, writers. Even SA's abs and the promise of some Olicity won't entice me.

Is there an episode that Felicity won't cry in? I'm getting tired of it.

Ray still doesn't annoy me but he deserves better than being in the middle of the Olicity angst. I like his adorkable personality, but that's mostly because I like Routh.