S10.E10: All About Jessa

[Marigold]

I was a fundamentalist and agreeing with GEML upthread. Everyone I knew stayed away from Gothard. They thought it was too strange or something. It didn't "feel" right.

[JoanArc]

http://www.fashionnstyle.com/articles/54196/20150328/19-kids-and-counting-mean-sister-jessa-duggars-siblings-secretly-thrilled-older-sibling-leaving-home-upon-marriage.htm

 

 

Just ask her younger siblings, who were reportedly afraid to cross their sister and were secretly thrilled when Jessa married Ben Seewald and was out of the house for good!

[anstar]

I think for them, once that minister says, "I now pronounce you...", they are married.  The paperwork is necessary to make it legal, yes, but most importantly, for them, in the eyes of God, they're married. Any lag time for paperwork to be filed isn't an issue.

[kassygreene]

I think for them, once that minister says, "I now pronounce you...", they are married.  The paperwork is necessary to make it legal, yes, but most importantly, for them, in the eyes of God, they're married. Any lag time for paperwork to be filed isn't an issue.

I believe in the eyes of the law (state), the marriage is legal when the documents are signed and witnessed.  My sister's was (I was one of the witnesses) and we still had to go through forty minutes of religious ritual.

 

Nearly 20 years ago I had a co-worker from southern India.  She was over here doing IT and met her future husband (from northern India), who was also in IT.  They decided to get married, and wound up getting married four times.  I don't remember the order, but there was a US civil ceremony, which was mostly "I Do" and sign the papers, one marriage notification/acknowledgement from the Indian government, which came in the mail, one religious ceremony with her family in southern India, and one religious ceremony with his family in northern India.  I was never clear which one of these was the "start" of the marriage, and I don't think they were either.

[Absolom]

 

I believe in the eyes of the law (state), the marriage is legal when the documents are signed and witnessed.  My sister's was (I was one of the witnesses) and we still had to go through forty minutes of religious ritual.

That is what the officiant/minister at the most recent family wedding told the couple.  They signed everything before the actual ceremony and he told them that they were then married.

 

I had a co-worker who was I think Buddhist and from Vietnam.  He had no idea about US weddings and marriage law.  They had their ceremony and then as he said went to city hall later on to "register the marriage."  He was shocked when the clerk told him that they were not married.  Can you imagine coming back from your honeymoon to hear that?  So they had an immediate city hall ceremony and decided not to ever tell their respective parents.  He did clue in his younger brothers about marriage licenses.  

Edited March 29, 2015 by Absolom

[kaleidoscope]

Another article from one of the gossip papers saying how the younger Duggar children fear Jessa:

http://www.inquisitr.com/1963268/mean-sister-jessa-duggar-younger-duggars-thrilled-that-she-married-and-moved-out/

Edited March 29, 2015 by kaleidoscope

[leighroda]

Michelle was all too excited to "work herself out of a job" she was downright giddy at the prospect of doing nothing.

[Ljohnson1987]

We needed an hour episode to learn that Jessa is a bitch? We already knew that

[andromeda331]

We needed an hour episode to learn that Jessa is a bitch? We already knew that

 

I admit to being surprise that her entire family minus Jinger thinks that too. And now Jessa has it for every on tape. The one that was suppose to be telling us all the good things about Jessa. That's fucked up.

[Wellfleet]

I admit to being surprise that her entire family minus Jinger thinks that too. And now Jessa has it for every on tape. The one that was suppose to be telling us all the good things about Jessa. That's fucked up.

 

The truth always finds a way...

[3girlsforus]

We needed an hour episode to learn that Jessa is a bitch? We already knew that

 

It's not that I'm a big fan of Jessa necessarily but I thought that was pretty sad. This is her family. She's not just stuck with them but because of the way her parents are they are really the only people she's allowed to develop any kind of relationship with (until she gets married) and those people all go on TV and say she's a bitch. I can't imagine that was easy for Jessa.

[GEML]

Eh, I'd rather have my family think me a bitch than be ever suffering Jana or perfect tattletale Jill. Especially since being a bitch in that family probably means, "we are going to do it my way" instead of giving in to the status quo.

[andromeda331]

He was shocked when the clerk told him that they were not married.  Can you imagine coming back from your honeymoon to hear that?

 

My great-grandparents had got married twice. The first they eloped and then a second time at the courthouse because they weren't sure if the first was legit. Something about the paper work got messed up so they when to the courthouse and got married again.

[msblossom]

Oh, I don't think Jessa is too sore about it. Something tells me she sees it as badge of honor. She's stealth.

[Wowzer]

Jessa has no nonsense personality - she likes to get things done her way and doesn't want to have to put up with random crap.  When the kids were up and wandering around during schooling she wanted to redirect there attention and get them back to work.  Her method seems harsh but it was the only way she knew how at the time. It can come off as being a bitch and I think that she took out her pent up aggression on her siblings.  I don't think she has any regrets.  I thought it was sad when Michelle said that she and Ben were opposites and then went on to say that Ben was compassionate.  You can be no nonsense and have compassion.

 

I would have liked to hear from her buddy group about how her leaving would affect them.  There was a whole segment from Joy, James and Jennifer about that transition.  I know that Jessa isn't as hands on as Jill but she had to have had some bond with Justin, Jordyn, and Jeremiah (or Jed).  Maybe she alienated herself from the rest of the kids but I just can't see it to that level.   

[Portia]

I reject the notion that a woman who knows her own mind, or who is a natural leader, or who isn't syrupy sweet, or isn't particularly nurturing by nature, is a bitch. Obviously the Duggar family doesn't use that word, but I didn't hear the idea of bitchiness in their comments. I just heard a surprisingly candid appraisal of who Jessa is and how she (gasp!) stands apart  from the other girls.  When my oldest daughter got married and we were toasting and telling stories at her rehearsal dinner, there were funny and affectionate comments about her bossing around her younger siblings . . . just as there were funny and affectionate comments about my youngest daughter being a flaky "artistic type" when it was her turn to get married. None of it came off as mean because we celebrate each child's uniqueness. I'm just tickled that the Duggars didn't completely train all the bossy out of Jessa. I just wish she realized that she could make use of those leadership skills in many spheres of life . . . not just as a wife and mother. (Edited to add . . . not that there's anything wrong with exercising those gifts solely at home. I was extremely fulfilled being home full-time when my kids were younger. I'd like Jessa to know she has choices--that's all.)

Edited March 29, 2015 by Portia

[Chai]

TLC edits it the way they want it. Everyone could have said 10 great things about Jessa and 1 critical thing and they could cut out the 10 good things they all said and leave the one negative remark from everyone. That way they have created a storyline..... Jessa is a b1#$%! That's what you agree to when you are paid for reality tv. They can edit reality any way they want. You can't do a thing about it because you agreed to it, JB and M. 

[kalamac]

Are we supposed to think Josh's comment about how she'll tell you what she thinks, and stands up for herself is a bad thing? I guess in their world it is if you're a woman, but where I'm from, that's a good thing.

As much as I have issues with some of the stuff she says/does, I have to say, good for Jessa, not being completely beaten down by that life.

[GEML]

Given that Josh was comparing Jessa to himself in this regard, I think he meant it as a compliment! ;)

[RazzleberryPie]

I don't think women, or men, have to be one or the other - Madonna or Whore, Angel or Devil, simpering sweet flower or hardcore hateful bitch. However, Jessa has demonstrated more qualities of a bitch than anything else. As a child, we've seen her on camera shoving her siblings and standing over them, plus there's the notorious story of her bullying Jana until Jana sacrificed her favorite jewelry box to 'show grace' and appease Jessa.

 

Then as a young adult and the homeschool teacher, Jessa herself has said she doesn't care what the little kids want, nobody asked their opinion, they need to obey her, they don't need explanations or reasoning, they just need to be obedient do what she says. That's past leadership and bitchy. You can lead without being hateful and a bully.

 

Her body language and facial expressions, when explaining courting, modesty, etc, are usually very condescending to anyone outside the Duggar world, and her facebook and instagram posts are downright mean and bullying when expressing her opinions on abortion, gun control, Christianity, etc. She's hateful.

 

I think all this is a combo of her natural personality, plus a lot of resentment and pent up anger over being so controlled and forced to raise her siblings. Despite this, there's so much brainwashing going on, that even though she knows Michelle and Jimbob dumped a lot of responsibility and a lot more guilt on her, but she can never really express it without the fear of going to hell, being rejected by her entire family, and lambasted by her whole Gothard/fundie culture. It's shocking she hasn't murdered anyone yet.

 

Now the burning question I want them all to answer is why does the hot bitchy one who tries to stretch all the rules get rewarded with a good looking husband (good thing he's pretty, bc he's not an intellectual genius or a beacon to society), her own home, a huge wedding, a career on the Christian speaking tour circuit, etc., while so many of the obedient ones who just kept sweet waiting for prince charming are still waiting........

 

(Bc IMO they can talk about sweetness and demureness until the cows come home, but those young fundie guys still pick the hottest piece of @$$ they can find and try to make a homeschooling babyfactory out of her).

Edited March 30, 2015 by RazzleberryPie

[Joe Jitsu913]

Jessa would make a good dominatrix. She could get rid of that pent up anger while making some cash.

[GEML]

I've said all along Jessa will out-Fundy her parents. That doesn't mean she will have tons of kids, though. Lots of Fundy's aren't quiverful. But I think she will actually like having a theologically ultra conservative father-in-law who feels that he uses the Bible as opposed to wisdom booklets, and, more importantly, stands behind her as she has her spiritual journey (which I think she's on) and she's going to be culturally and theologically stricter than Michelle and Jim Bob.

Statically, one child always goes down this path. I've seen it happen a hundred times. Jessa looks ready for it.

[JoanArc]

I've always thought Jessa was more pissed that she wasn't allowed to be mainstream. Just be use she's reactionary now, might not mean she will be at 30.

[RazzleberryPie]

I've said all along Jessa will out-Fundy her parents. That doesn't mean she will have tons of kids, though. Lots of Fundy's aren't quiverful. But I think she will actually like having a theologically ultra conservative father-in-law who feels that he uses the Bible as opposed to wisdom booklets, and, more importantly, stands behind her as she has her spiritual journey (which I think she's on) and she's going to be culturally and theologically stricter than Michelle and Jim Bob.

Statically, one child always goes down this path. I've seen it happen a hundred times. Jessa looks ready for it.

Good call. I can see this happening. She has a personality that enjoys control and power, and fundies like her use the strictest interpretation of Scripture (even if they're misinterpreting or skewing the interpretation to meet their control needs) to maintain power. Now that she's also getting a lot of praise and attention from speaking at Christian events and social media, that will only feed her fundamentalism. 

[GEML]

Plus, it's the ultimate come back to her parents. You think you care about X? Well, you're so afraid of insulting your precious audience, you won't even talk about it!

It's the equivalent of the college freshman coming home and refusing to celebrate Thanksgiving. Because it's about oppression. And they don't eat meat now. And oh yeah, they need more money for next term!

You think you taught me about God? I knew nothing about God. Until Ben and the Seewalds showed me. And how to live righteously? Well, I know now! By the way, PEOPLE wants to know if Thursday works for everyone.

It's just likely coming a few years later. Still will be entertaining to watch though.

[cmr2014]

I think you're right about Jessa. I am a firm believer that people don't skip developmental stages. You can suppress or repress these stages, but the individuals will eventually pass through them. If it is in Jessa's nature to need to rebel in order to fully separate from her family, she will do so. If the only path that she can find is to become even more conservative and reactionary than her parents, then that's what will happen -- and I have to admit I think it is actually pretty clever.

 

Perhaps Jessa will become one of those women who write books and give speeches about how important it is for women to submit to their husbands, and stay at home and raise children while she herself does neither.

[JoanArc]

 

Perhaps Jessa will become one of those women who write books and give speeches about how important it is for women to submit to their husbands, and stay at home and raise children while she herself does neither.

 

How would that be rebelling from Michelle?

[GEML]

She won't have the numbers. She will condemn her mother for having too many and not being able to raise them. She can look to her mother-in-law who still left it to God but didn't deliberately try to have a baby every chance as is it were a race and ended up with a more reasonable number.

But she can still hit the trail and not actually raise the number she does have.

[JoanArc]

Jessa still has the problem Josh and the other kids will have to deal with too - no one will care about them once the show ends. She'd better make hay while the sun shines. There's always someone hotter, smarter, cuter, or more fundie waiting in the wings. I know, I know they can access the subcultures, but that won't last. She's also totally financially dependent on her parents. as is her husband. I'd love to see what happens when they bite the hand that feeds.

[GEML]

I think Josh will be ok. Conservatives will always need someone who can cross into those subcultures to get votes and do fundraising, and he's one of the few who can. If the voting patterns ever change and the voting becomes wide open or religious voters expendable, then I think he has a problem, but right now, given political realities, his job transcends the show (one of the reasons they don't have to show him doing it) and he will be ok.

But Jessa will be in a tighter spot. There would be some amount of market for out Fundy-ing her parents, but not a large one, and not a long term, sustainable one. Ben doesn't, at this point, have an established career of any kind. They may have some sort of long term ministry plan in their heads, but even coming off of the Duggar platform, that is a hard road.

[JoanArc]

 

but right now, given political realities, his job transcends the show (one of the reasons they don't have to show him doing it) and he will be ok.

 

Take a look at the video I posted in the Josh thread. it's 20 minutes of basically just talking about his family. That's really all people want to hear about. 1 trick pony.

[Wellfleet]

I think you're right about Jessa. I am a firm believer that people don't skip developmental stages. You can suppress or repress these stages, but the individuals will eventually pass through them. If it is in Jessa's nature to need to rebel in order to fully separate from her family, she will do so. If the only path that she can find is to become even more conservative and reactionary than her parents, then that's what will happen -- and I have to admit I think it is actually pretty clever.

 

Perhaps Jessa will become one of those women who write books and give speeches about how important it is for women to submit to their husbands, and stay at home and raise children while she herself does neither.

 

Hmmm, Jessa writing a book? Can't quite see that. If she does, won't she be eating her words? Didn't she make some kind of snippy crack about the "relationships" book the four girls did? About it being the last time she'd ever be involved with such a thing? However, if she does decide to write a book, I hope she has a ghostwriter lined up - again - because she'll seriously need one.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Missy Vixen]

Now the burning question I want them all to answer is why does the hot bitchy one who tries to stretch all the rules get rewarded with a good looking husband (good thing he's pretty, bc he's not an intellectual genius or a beacon to society), her own home, a huge wedding, a career on the Christian speaking tour circuit, etc., while so many of the obedient ones who just kept sweet waiting for prince charming are still waiting........

 

Jim Boob didn't think about "hot" when he saddled the daughter he resents (and please don't tell me Jim Boob doesn't resent Jessa; he's done everything but call her a bitch on-camera) with the millstone around her neck called Ben. This kid has no career training. His job is "reality TV personality", which will end with a quickness when Ben (or Bin) makes a truly outrageous comment in social media or in public the Duggars can't spin. It's going to happen. He's not interesting/magnetic/intelligent; he's not going to have a booming career as a superchurch pastor or TV evangelist because he doesn't have the skills to market himself. If he was smart, he would get in touch with the ex-NFL "trainer" Jim Boob and Smuggar worked with and ask him how he started his business. He'd also switch his major from Poli Sci to physical education in hopes of opening a gym of his own/becoming a trainer. Bin is going to end up working at a barely-above-minimum wage job, Jessa will be a stay at home mom, and they will live just above the poverty line when the show finally screeches to a halt. Jim Boob found an 18 year old boy who's willing to overlook his daughter's "challenging" personality and engineered this relationship because it benefits the family, not Jessa, whom I'm guessing has been a thorn in his ass for a long time now. Jessa's booming career on the Christian talk show circuit will be short as well; she's already shown that she's not interested in making nice or submitting to media training. And she has the capability to flame out on social media, too.

 

I'm willing to bet that the mold-filled house was "fixed" by Jim Boob and the cheapest contractor he could find -- namely family members. This is why Bin continues to be so sick. Their "free" house will cost them more than they ever dreamed.

 

The only leverage Jessa had in this situation was to tell her parents that if they didn't allow her to marry Bin, she'd elope, which would be disastrous for show ratings and also prove that the Duggar parents really don't have as much control over their kids as they want the viewing public and TLC to believe.

[Gianthambeast]

Missy Vixen  can you give some examples of Blob disliking/resenting Jessa? I believe you, but I haven't been watching this show for very long and I'd just like to learn more.

[graefin]

I'm willing to bet that the mold-filled house was "fixed" by Jim Boob and the cheapest contractor he could find -- namely family members. This is why Bin continues to be so sick. Their "free" house will cost them more than they ever dreamed.

I'd wager the mold remediation was filmed and thus the bill footed by TLC. Probably why he waited until now to fix it instead of when the previous tenant initially complained.

[andromeda331]

I'd wager the mold remediation was filmed and thus the bill footed by TLC. Probably why he waited until now to fix it instead of when the previous tenant initially complained.

 

Your probably right. Unless its comped or paid by TLC he won't do it.

[Missy Vixen]

Missy Vixen  can you give some examples of Blob disliking/resenting Jessa? I believe you, but I haven't been watching this show for very long and I'd just like to learn more.

Watch the episode in which Jessa told Jim Boob that if he didn't let them get married, she'd elope, which I believe happened last season. She's not joking. Bin turns away from the camera because he's laughing. There's instance after instance over the past two seasons in which Jim Boob has shown on camera he has little to no patience with Jessa; I'm guessing she's told him more than once how things are and he resents this. After all, women should be seen and not heard (unless they're sucking up to him).

 

I can hardly wait to see his crocodile tears on Tuesday. She (and her bluntness) is out of his house. He's done everything possible to make sure the rest of her life is less than successful.

[GEML]

I honestly don't think TLC paid for the house remodeling. Everyone is always saying TLC pays for this or this is comped - but if that was the case, I don't see how people make money at all. I think there might have been a health violation against Jim Bob made by a former tenant, since it was made public on a board (even if it was met by skepticism) and he didn't want Ben and Jessa moving in with her in-laws because they would actually exert real influence on the couple but not in ways Jim Bob could object to. People like Ben and Jessa and they are a money maker for Jim Bob. Fixing up the little house was a wise investment on his part. There will be other children, after all, who will need it later.

[trimthatfat]

I sincerely doubt TLC paid for the mold treatment. What reason would they have to do that?

[3girlsforus]

I honestly don't think TLC paid for the house remodeling. Everyone is always saying TLC pays for this or this is comped - but if that was the case, I don't see how people make money at all. I think there might have been a health violation against Jim Bob made by a former tenant, since it was made public on a board (even if it was met by skepticism) and he didn't want Ben and Jessa moving in with her in-laws because they would actually exert real influence on the couple but not in ways Jim Bob could object to. People like Ben and Jessa and they are a money maker for Jim Bob. Fixing up the little house was a wise investment on his part. There will be other children, after all, who will need it later.

 

I agree. TLC doesn't pay for even close to the things that people think they do. It's been several years now since I've seen her but I was friends with a woman who was high up in programming at Discovery (who owns TLC) and TLC was her primary responsibility. She told me specifically that they rarely pay for all these things people think because it sets precedence for other reality families to want the same and they would go bankrupt. The example she used was a trip to Italy for the Cake Boss (I think it was Italy). Anyway - they filmed it for the show but they only paid the expenses for the crew and TLC people required for filming. The Cake Boss guy paid for the vacation himself. Of course he was paid for the episode but it was not a free vacation.

[Gianthambeast]

Watch the episode in which Jessa told Jim Boob that if he didn't let them get married, she'd elope, which I believe happened last season. She's not joking. Bin turns away from the camera because he's laughing. There's instance after instance over the past two seasons in which Jim Boob has shown on camera he has little to no patience with Jessa; I'm guessing she's told him more than once how things are and he resents this. After all, women should be seen and not heard (unless they're sucking up to him).

 

I can hardly wait to see his crocodile tears on Tuesday. She (and her bluntness) is out of his house. He's done everything possible to make sure the rest of her life is less than successful.

Thanks Missy Vixen.  I watched the clip on youtube (along with others). Yup, Boob does not like the non-compliant one, though he acts all fake for the camera.  The moldy house (when compared with the Stonybook spread) was probably also his way of sticking it to her.  Ass.

[JenCarroll]

I would have liked to hear from her buddy group about how her leaving wlould affect them. There was a whole segment from Joy, James and Jennifer about that transition. I know that Jessa isn't as hands on as Jill but she had to have had some bond with Justin, Jordyn, and Jeremiah (or Jed). Maybe she alienated herself from the rest of the kids but I just can't see it to that level.

There was a TH where Josie says (I think),"Jessa's my big buddy and I love her." Then falls over laughing. Although she may have said "big brother;" it's often hard to tell with her. Edited April 5, 2015 by JenCarroll

[bk10]

I just watched this episode. Jessa reminds me of Alyssa Bates. I think they have similar personalities because in "Bringing up Bates" they described Alyssa pretty much like this family described Jessa. I think she would have been more than happy to move far away from her family, start wearing pants, and have her own friends. I don't think she's bad, she's just strong willed and actually has a personality.