S04.E16: Poor Unfortunate Soul

[ParadoxLost]

She had to take a chance on Hook's deal, trusting him after he once wronged her, for the chain of events that led to the spell being broken to happen and she reconciled with her father. That's a change in her behavior. And when Hook kept his end of the bargain she kept hers.

 

By that logic, Rumpel changed his ways by trusting Mal and Ursala to let him into town (a stretch, I know).  A villain looking for any opening to get what they want and betraying their allies is not changing behavior (and that is what Ursala did in making her deal with Hook).  That she kept the deal afterward is great but you can also argue its quid pro quo.  I do actually think the changed once she was given her happy ending; but I thought it was pretty clear that this was more about Hook changing his behavior and Ursala was an afterthought.

 

But then again, we haven't really been shown much of Ursala's villainy.  Maybe she doesn't have that much behavior to change.

[SilverShadow]

By that logic, Rumpel changed his ways by trusting Mal and Ursala to let him into town (a stretch, I know).  A villain looking for any opening to get what they want and betraying their allies is not changing behavior (and that is what Ursala did in making her deal with Hook). 

 

I disagree. Rumple is planning to pursue evil ends that will hurt people to benefit himself. Bringing in partners/potential stooges is not meaningful change.  By your logic a kid who bullies another kid and then changes their mind and defends them is the same as one of the kids getting bullied joining the bullies in tormenting another kid. Both involve changing sides, but the context is very different depending on what side they are betraying and what side they are joining.

 

Ursula wasn't looking for any opening. She could have tortured Hook a la August to try and get what she wanted and that would have been the same. She could have given in to her anger and popped his head like a grape with her tentacles. Instead she gave him a chance to prove himself. The difference is she chose the path that wouldn't cause further evil and put her trust in Hook doing the right thing. She slipped, and so did he, but she allowed herself to hope. "Believing in even the possibility of a happy ending is a very powerful thing."

[TrininisaScorp]

For me, this was way better than last week.  I'm a Hook fan (and I'm cool with Capt Swan), so I tend to like his episodes.  This was not an exception. Colin O'D always brings it. The pacing was also better.  We heard about not!Hook and Gold's plan re: getting Emma to embrace the dark side in some nice scenes that actually felt like conversations that could happen and then we moved the hell on. I pretty much can't think about too much past what's on the page b/c I don't know that the logic makes sense and fast pacing helps that.  I feel as though some of the problem comes from the very black and white view of Villains and Heroes.  In a more nuanced world, I think an exploration of aspects of "villainy" and "heroism" within sets of our characters would be very cool, but, especially last season and this 4B part, it seems that isn't the show we have.  Now, we have Villains and Heroes and apparently that's your lot in life. 

 

I'm liking the pulling in and interactions of characters.  While some of it still needs a little work (e.g. sure Will had the mushroom from Wonderland...okay), some of it was nicely done (e.g. Hey Ariel!).  Either way, I liked seeing a larger variety of characters.   Will was the best part of Wonderland and I want him to become a more natural part of the mothership.  I want the man to have purpose with something to do AND I want to understand what happened to bring him back to Storybrooke (assuming this is all after the events of Wonderland).

 

Our writers need to figure their lives out re: Snow and Charming.  They come off as self-righteous and hypocritical with their actions in the past and their lying to cover it up now.  Y'all know it is going to become a big thing that is going to inevitably drive Emma and Snowing apart (I'm totally unspoiled...this is my guess).

[Mari]

and Will has a wife? Is he our new Robin Hood then? Ditching Wifey to be with a current OUAT (in this case Belle... and they dont really fit either)

In Once Wonderland,

Will was reunited with Anastasia.  They were shown as in love, and in-show shared a curse-breaking kiss.  They were shown in the Wonderland finale as the White King and Queen of Wonderland.  And the show has sort of skipped all of that, except for the tiny nod given to it when Will broke into the library and stole a picture from the Wonderland book.  Since Wonderland was set during season 2 of Once Original, it would seem he is. 

[Donny Ketchum]

I laughed when Belle broke her pirate oath so easily. 

She didn't really, though.  She made it to whom she'd thought was Hook.  When she realized that it wasn't Hook, that was when she spilled.  So no oath could be applied there.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[Camera One]

She didn't realize until after.  Here was the dialogue:

 

BELLE: H-h-he's here? Th-that's That's impossible.
SNOW: Well, did you really think he'd stay away?

EMMA: The dagger.  You need to hand it over so we can stop this fight before it starts.
BELLE: The dagger? I-I don't have the dagger.  Killian does.
HOOK: Who? Me? Well, I haven't seen that cursed blade since you commanded the Crocodile to leave the first time.
BELLE: But y-you took it from me last night to hide it where no one could find it.

 

---

 

Looking at the lines as written, they make Snow and Emma seem totally demanding and rude.  The writers are lucky the actresses are able to blunt the words a little through delivery.  

Edited March 24, 2015 by Camera One

[snarkastic]

Just a couple of thoughts:

I took Hook thinking he was a villain still was directly about Ariel's line of villains going about things the wrong way. His first instinct when Ursula's voice didn't come back to her was to tell her it's her problem, not his, and held a gun up to her and demand she give him what he wants. And if his first instincts are still of the more villainous variety, chances are the 'Author' (blech) would cast him as a villain still.

And with the dialogue reminding viewers that to kill the Dark One means you become the Dark One, I have a feeling we'll be seeing someone else as the Dark One before the end of the season, if only temporary. It'd be hilarious if the key to turning Emma evil would be that she'd have to kill Rumpel and he wouldn't get his happy ending no matter what.

[Camera One]

I took Hook thinking he was a villain still was directly about Ariel's line of villains going about things the wrong way. His first instinct when Ursula's voice didn't come back to her was to tell her it's her problem, not his, and held a gun up to her and demand she give him what he wants. And if his first instincts are still of the more villainous variety, chances are the 'Author' (blech) would cast him as a villain still.

 

I agree that's what the writers were trying to go for.  The problem is that was hardly very villain-y.  David pretty much threatened Bo Peep in a similar way in 4A.   

 

I actually mis-interpreted that in order for Ursula to get her voice back, she needs to first become the Mermaid that she used to be, which would mean losing the octopus arms and becoming a good person again.  But it turned out they meant Daddio was needed.  I kept expecting Rumple to show up and turn him into stone and stab Ursula through with a trident.

[LizaD]

Yeah, I got a bad feeling too. Back in the day I  thought August and  Emma were going to become a couple and I didn't like that idea. I wouldn't like that idea now, either. Don't go that way, show.

Really? It actually kind of reminded me of that scene when Emma gets on Henry's eye level and is telling him fairy tales are fake so calm yo tits back in S1, right before the brat choked on the poisoned apple. She did the same here by crouching down and it came off kind of motherly and awkward cause the dude now has a beard instead of being a 10 year old red head.

[scarynikki12]

I think the key part of that scene that sent it into worrisome territory was the cut to Snow watching them.  I'm sure Ginny was directed to show happiness that August was rescued as proof that Emma isn't going to turn evil but she used the same look she would get when Snow was encouraging Emma to get back with Neal back in season 3.  So it just came across as Snow possibly getting on board Team August since, as established earlier in the episode, she and David are convinced that Hook will fall back into villainy with little incentive.  I don't think that's what will happen, so I don't want to worry anyone else, but that's how the scene came across.  If it had just been between Emma and August, or if they just hadn't cut to Snow, then I probably wouldn't have even gone to that possible conclusion.

[KAOS Agent]

You know, I thought we'd made it through an entire episode without Henry staring at the book and then I realized that he was staring at it the entire time Emma & Regina were talking about finding Robin. Henry, get a life!

[Camera One]

At least he didn't grab a mug of hot chocolate and join them at the counter to gab about dream boy.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Camera One

[AudienceofOne]

Flip flop, flip flop, flip flop.

 

On the one hand, the whole Ursula story is classic OUAT and what I loved about the first season. A normal, nice person (or at least an ordinary person with all their normal human faults) has something bad happen to them and they get blinded by a need for revenge and suddenly they're the villain. And because they were wronged first, they can't see it. This makes them keep walking blindly down that path toward being the bad guy without realising that's what's happening.

 

So the path to redemption is literally the path you're already on, just walked the other way. Back to who you used to be. So the Ursula mini-arc was perfect. Even better when you add in Hook who, in seeing that those parts of his personality that made him seek vengeance on Rumple for all those years are still there, is worried that he is going to ruin his own happy ending just by being the person he used to be. Having him resolve not to be that person anymore and to choose his happy ending with Emma over vengeance marries the plotline PERFECTLY.

 

Also, Captain Swan. *sigh*

 

But put that story in the middle of this stupid Author plot and... I have no idea what they're trying to say. It absolutely makes no sense. I mean, it already made no sense but now it also makes no sense narratively as well as conceptually. Why devote an entire episode to the fact that we are responsible for our own happy endings in a season about how it's all written by the Author? And don't even get me started on this Dark!Emma nonsense.

 

I can't work it out and I can't help but feel that it's not some brilliant bait and switch with an amazing ending where we discover the Author plotline is a giant red herring but is instead the mess it seems. Which is a shame because an episode like this could have been really good.

[YaddaYadda]

You know, I thought we'd made it through an entire episode without Henry staring at the book and then I realized that he was staring at it the entire time Emma & Regina were talking about finding Robin. Henry, get a life!

I thought it was plain weird that Henry didn't say boo to his favorite mom when she walked through the door after being undercover with a bunch of crazy people.  That was my WTF moment.

 

And that scene that you guys are talking about with August and Emma where Snowing are looking on and smiling, my reaction was I so love you Emma, so much, because Emma is like the most forgiving person ever.  Snow sort of had a similar reaction to Emma in 413 when she was telling Hook she would choose to see the best in him and then went on to Regina about how Emma is now opening her heart and all of that.  Because Emma has a really big (and forgiving) heart.  So yeah, she's kneeling next to August and 3 seconds later asking Ursula what she did to Hook and she would have been out of there if Ursula hadn't had Snow in that vice grip with her tentacles.

 

I was a bit shocked that they brought August back to the loft, which had me wonder if the protection spell is still working around the loft.  But then, his life doesn't seem to be in danger anymore since what Rumple wants now is the page with that lame door on it.

[Joenigma]

 

I actually mis-interpreted that in order for Ursula to get her voice back, she needs to first become the Mermaid that she used to be, which would mean losing the octopus arms and becoming a good person again.

 

Actually with the dialog Hook and Ursula had while at the docks, I thought that she became a half octopus the moment she lost her voice. I thought they were going to do the reverse wedding scene in the Little Mermaid. Ursula loses her voice and then collapses with tenticals for feet. But they decided to say she took Daddy's trident and transformed herself.

 

 

I do believe that there is a lesson for the others to learn with Ursula's story, and that it's if you open yourself up to the possibility, things can go your way. Instead of trying to force her happy ending (i.e. "going about getting it in the wrong way"), she trusted the person who took it from her to give it back. And it worked!

 

I actually thought the main lesson was, Ursula herself didn't know what her Happy Ending was. She thought this whole time it was getting her singing voice back. It wasn't It was repairing her relationship with her father and that he finally understands why singing for good is so important to her. Also getting the shell with her voice was only step 1 to her happy ending, there was the second factor, but Villains tend to obsess over the first.

 

I remember Ingrid had a similar line to Rumple about Villains that was similar to Ariel. I think it was "Villains always want too much."

[TigerLynx]

If they succeed in finding the author, and turning Emma evil, I want the author to tell them, it won't change anything.  They are the problem.  Rumple had Belle, she was in love with him, and they were married.  He had his magic and the dagger, and it still wasn't enough.  So long as their happy endings depend on someone else's life being ruined, they will never get a happy ending.

 

Ursula's happy ending came a little to quickly, but it entailed getting her voice and her father back.

 

Hook's happy ending is Emma, as she is.  It doesn't involve destroying or taking something from someone else.

[Mitch]

Good episode and a much needed improvement from last week. I actually liked it the best of this season's episodes as it seemed more S!..there was a clearly defined story, instead of some gobblygook and "oh, there's a monster," we have been getting since S2. They told Ursula's story, she got her ending and that was that, all the while a ton of characters got screen time, a lot happened though the emotional beats weren't missed and some funny lines were dropped.  I especially liked the homage to bad 70s cop shows with the "torture," in the cabin, I expected Startsky and Hutch to break in or one of the Angels. Good work Once, keep doing funny riffs on pop culture while advancing and a story and your goofy little self can stay on my TV.  I also thought it was like S1 that it was a dark theme, (a torture) and ended on a bright hopefull note that only this show can get away with. Plus, Cruella is fast becoming my favorite villain, who else would be crass enough to come on to a guy you just tortured and I LOVE that gun of hers..someone finally figures out that a gun will cut through all that hocus pocus b.s. (never figured out why some sniper just doenst take out Regina or Rump or the villain of the week.) Then she gets smacked by a frying pan by a suddenlly cool again Snow! Charming, as usual was useless and stood around holding Snow's purse.

 

I will miss Urlsula but she was the most ambivalant of the Queens, she just seemed to roll her eyes and seemed tired of our whole world. Hopefully she will come back and knock Mal's and Cruella' s head together..."You fools, can;t you tell the Dark One is going to screw you over but good!" Other things, you have to just let the really dumb stuff slide (like Midas not being able to stop Hook, and Cruella recovering from what would be a concussion causing pan hit, to just get up and get past them, big fur and wild hair and all) which is par for the course on this show and about every other. I liked the use of magic here for once and liked that, guess what, Regina got her brains back and her magical smoke sign was great. the Snow actress nailed Parrilla's mannerisims as Regina.  I am not that into Hook and Emma, don't hate em, don;t love em, but they were okay together.  Malifienct was looking stylish in her Marlena Dietrich 1930s Lesbian Pant Suit and as always Rump is a big d*ck.  Are we sure that Belle gave FakeHook the real dagger or the fake one? She seemed not that concerned.

 

And a big plus, Henry had almost no lines and was in just two scenes!

[iMonrey]

 

This is one of the things that really, really kills me about this storyline: I truly fail to see how the life of Snow or Charming or Emma or Marco or anyone else in Storybrooke is substantively better than Regina's. I mean, I can believe that Regina thinks their lives are, because that's just how Regina rolls, but among the many many idiocies in this storyline, I don't understand why someone doesn't just stare at Regina and say "um, you HAVE noticed that our lives suck TOO, right?"

 

If I had to guess, Regina's definition of "happy ending" is getting the love of your life. Snow ended up with Charming, Emma wound up with Hook, etc. but Regina lost her teenaged love and now has lost Robin as well. Gold lost Belle, etc. So it's not so much getting to live happily ever after as it is winding up with a significant other. That's my take on how the writers see it at any rate.

[Zuleikha]

If I had to guess, Regina's definition of "happy ending" is getting the love of your life.

I don't think so. She could have had Robin during the Missing Year but wasn't ready to open up her heart romantically yet. I think Regina's happy ending is having a healthy, loving family. She wants both Henry and a romantic partner. It was only when she was physically reunited with Henry and had the hope of a full reunion that she was able to connect to Robin. 

 

I think Snow has the same happy ending (I can't remember the episode, but I do remember one episode where she and Charming were separated from Emma and Snow exclaimed something about being tired and something like "when do we get our happy ending?" So Charming wasn't enough)

 

Actually, I think that's Emma's, too. She may be Hook's happy ending, but he's not hers. He's probably part of hers, but she also needs Henry in her life.

 

[KingOfHearts]

 

If I had to guess, Regina's definition of "happy ending" is getting the love of your life.

Depends on what day of the week it is. First it was getting away from Cora, then it was running away with Daniel, then it was being beloved by the kingdom, then it was revenge on Snow, then it was having Henry all to herself, then it was destroying Zelena, and then it was Robin Hood. I believe her definition of a happy ending is everything going her way when she wants it too without any bumps in the road. Which, of course, is impossible. If she got Robin she'd just find something else to whine about.

 

 

If the villains don't believe there's a chance things can get better, why bother trying to be good? Why not just stay evil?

Positive reinforcement does wonders... unless you're blind to anything to be thankful for like Regina is.

Edited March 24, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I was a little unhappy when I heard that the Jolly Roger might be returning because this show is constantly going back on sacrifices/magical prices for the main characters (permanent hole in the heart, losing Henry forever, banishment, death, etc) such that as soon as someone pays a price, I don't even care because they'll have it back by the next episode. There aren't any stakes. Obviously, the rabble regularly get screwed, but clearly they don't matter. Hook's giving up his ship just for a chance to see Emma was one of the few sacrifices that actually stuck. However, I realized in this episode that I see the Jolly as a character in her own right and she deserved better than having to serve Blackbeard or to be stuck in a bottle, so I've decided to be happy that she's back to serve a captain who'll love her and treat her like she deserves. Also, Hook looked so damn happy to see her again and it was sweet that he kept a piece of her rigging as a memento of her, so how can I begrudge that reunion?

[YaddaYadda]

However, I realized in this episode that I see the Jolly as a character in her own right and she deserved better than having to serve Blackbeard or to be stuck in a bottle, so I've decided to be happy that she's back to serve a captain who'll love her and treat her like she deserves. Also, Hook looked so damn happy to see her again and it was sweet that he kept a piece of her rigging as a memento of her, so how can I begrudge that reunion?

 

The Jolly Roger is like a recurring character for me, has been since The Crocodile.  I think it might have been those scenes where we see a real ship (the Lady Washington I think) sailing.  It's still one of my favorite scenes on the show.  I was glad to see her back especially after seeing Blackbeard use her for Hans.  For me the ship is part of the fabric of the show much like Emma's red jacket and yellow bug or David's sword.

[OnceUponAJen]

And now Hook will have his own place in town, he can take Henry sailing on his own ship. It may put some life back into the character. I miss the old Hook swagger. As soon as he's satisfied that Emma is safe and their relationship is solid, I hope he'll get some of that back!

[FormerMod-a1]

As soon as he's satisfied that Emma ...

I first read that as "As soon as he's satisfied Emma..." Yes, my mind is in the gutter.

[TigerLynx]

You're not alone.  That's what I thought to.

[OnceUponAJen]

Well, that might bring the swagger back too ;)

[Curio]

I realized in this episode that I see the Jolly as a character in her own right and she deserved better than having to serve Blackbeard or to be stuck in a bottle, so I've decided to be happy that she's back to serve a captain who'll love her and treat her like she deserves. Also, Hook looked so damn happy to see her again and it was sweet that he kept a piece of her rigging as a memento of her, so how can I begrudge that reunion?

 

I also see the Jolly Roger as her own character, so I'm glad she's back. However, since I do consider her a character, I wish we had actually gotten an entire episode devoted to getting her back, along with flashbacks of how she got traded. I wanted an episode through the eyes of the ship as she had to outrun a curse, get traded to a nasty pirate who no doubt didn't take as good of care of her as Hook did, and then we could see her be returned to her rightful owner. Maybe there'll be a chance one day where we actually get to see that on screen if Blackbeard ever decides he wants to take the ship back from Hook.

 

On a different note, after re-watching the episode, the final scene between Regina and Emma kind of bugged me. So Regina asks Emma to track down Robin after she (Oh, I'm sorry. The Evil Queen) threw a fireball at him during a bad dream. Why didn't you guys think of that in the first place?! Why are we suddenly now thinking of ways to contact Robin? You didn't think to give him your phone number at the town line? You didn't want to quick give him a cheat sheet on how to use e-mail? Over six weeks, you never once thought of using the scroll to cross over and contact him? I just don't get this Regina/Robin relationship at all.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Curio

[Camera One]

Perhaps the reformed Regina didn't want to disturb their family unit, thinking that Robin and Marion might have fallen back in love.  If you're never going to meet again (presumably), it was better to make a clean break.  I don't think Emma had that light-bulb moment with the Scroll until the 4B premiere.  

[Curio]

Perhaps the reformed Regina didn't want to disturb their family unit, thinking that Robin and Marion might have fallen back in love.  If you're never going to meet again (presumably), it was better to make a clean break.  I don't think Emma had that light-bulb moment with the Scroll until the 4B premiere.  

 

Responding in the relationship thread.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Perhaps the reformed Regina didn't want to disturb their family unit, thinking that Robin and Marion might have fallen back in love.  If you're never going to meet again (presumably), it was better to make a clean break.  I don't think Emma had that light-bulb moment with the Scroll until the 4B premiere.

I could see Regina wanting to at least contact them and make sure they're okay, though. Just leaving them out in the world seems sort of negligent. Even if there's a whole romance at play, checking on them would be a decent human thing to do. Not just for Robin's sake, but Marian and Roland too. If Zelena and Walsh were able to go after Emma, and Rumple and the Queens were able to bypass the barrier, it's a safe bet they won't be totally safe from magical threats.

Edited March 25, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I think for Regina, it would be too painful.  I don't think they'd be any reason to believe they won't be okay.  They have money, they don't have giant targets on their back.  

 

Though now that we know phone and email works fine, yeah, it made no sense why other friends of Robin Hood might not had arranged ways to keep in touch, if not Regina.

 

The dream thing felt really forced in.  Clearly, it's to set up *something*, but it just didn't fit in with this episode.

[YaddaYadda]

But if Regina wants a clean break, then she has no reason to keep in touch with him.  Why would she when all she would be doing is hurt herself in the process?  And the Merry Men except for Will (I think) still live in the forest together, they don't seem to associate with the rest of the town, so them having phones makes no sense.

[Mari]

Completely off current conversational topic, but one tiny little detail I noticed when I finally got to see the last ten minutes of the episode was Cruella's crazy driving.  It was silly, and cartoony, and so completely careless of anyone that wasn't her that I could see cartoon Cruella.

 

I'd never, ever want to have that character on a real street, in a real car.  However, on-screen?  Could we please have a few seconds of her driving every so often?  It would be worth the screen time, and far more entertaining than glimpses of Henry staring with a magnifying glass at the book pages, again.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Mari

[Daisy]

In Once Wonderland,

Will was reunited with Anastasia.  They were shown as in love, and in-show shared a curse-breaking kiss.  They were shown in the Wonderland finale as the White King and Queen of Wonderland.  And the show has sort of skipped all of that, except for the tiny nod given to it when Will broke into the library and stole a picture from the Wonderland book.  Since Wonderland was set during season 2 of Once Original, it would seem he is. 

 

 

thank you very much. I only watched 2 episodes of that, so  that explains a lot :)

[KingOfHearts]

 

But if Regina wants a clean break, then she has no reason to keep in touch with him.

But when Emma asked Regina in 4x12 if Robin had contacted her, she seemed upset that he hadn't. I don't think she wants a clean break. I believe she wants the Author to have it where she can have Robin without tarnishing her own image. All the reminiscing she's been doing with Page 23 and mentioning when she was happy to Henry, then the dream in this episode, makes me think she wishes she was in contact with him and she wants him back.

[Shanna Marie]

After missing the episode from being out, then a recording screw-up and then an OnDemand failure, I've finally seen the episode and I have so many thoughts, but my allergy medicine is kicking in so the real discussion will have to wait for the morning. But a few things from the past few pages:

 

So I don't really see how the past!Hook we saw tonight was any different from the one we saw with Cora or Regina in season 2.

I actually thought he was better than we've seen him in the past because he seemed to have been truly, honestly touched by Ursula's singing and truly grateful that she spared his ship. I got the impression that his offer to help her was true and above-board. Granted, his scheme to double-cross Poseidon was rather piratey, but it was still to help Ursula. He only ended up screwing over Ursula in a fit of temper at Poseidon. That temper really does seem to be his fatal flaw that gets him in the most trouble. Even when he's at his best, he can fly off the handle and make a rash decision for the worst when his temper strikes. Belle specifically mentioned his temper in the arc opener, Emma mentioned it in this episode, and he seemed to realize that was his problem, so maybe they're going somewhere with that.

 

#StopOperationMongoose2k15!

Is this a real thing? Because I'd be on board with it.

 

Typical of the show to make it a huge deal/build-up with the whole Pirate's Oath, and then in the very next episode, they have Belle asking Hook straight-up where the Dagger from last night is.  Why not just have Belle realize it herself moments after she hands the Dagger over, or when she gets back to her shop?  Or maybe have her bump into the Real Hook on the street.  It's like setting up for a dinner party and then pushing everything off the table.  Seriously... why set it up in the first place?

Yeah, I was thinking that, too. On the one hand, it's sometimes nice to just have no excess drama and cut right to the information. On the other, they pretty much sapped all suspense from that plot element. They had the classic Hitchcockian bomb under the picnic table scenario, in which the audience knew something the characters didn't and we had to watch in dread as they went about their lives without realizing the trouble they were in. They had the setup for them figuring it out on their own, with all that talk about Will that the real Hook would have known nothing about, and it would have been nice for Rumple's creepiness to be what gave him away. And then early in the next episode we get the Reginagram that just flat-out tells them what's going on. So what was the point?

 

I have other thoughts on the nature of villainy, happy endings, and the epic episode of Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville, but the Benadryl just really kicked in and I need to get down the stairs to bed while I can still navigate the stairs.

[regularlyleaded]

First of all, I blame all of you on these forums for pushing me off the wagon sucking me back into watching an episode of this show. I both hate and love you all. ;)

Re: Ursula getting her happy ending.
I generally agree with everyone’s sentiment that Ursula getting her happy ending runs counter to the entire premise that most of the characters have bought into (lock, stock, and barrel) that it’s the author that can give them their happy endings. Clearly, events that transpired in this episode say otherwise. But what’s also contrary is Rumpel’s plan/belief that Emma is the one that has the power to give the villains happy endings. As we just saw, not only did Ursula get her happy ending, Emma had quite honestly really nothing to do with it. At best Emma’s influence on Killian helped (“I’m going to take a page from your book, Swan”), but ultimately, it was Killian’s and Ariel’s doing that gave Ursula her happy ending (and also Ursula herself when she forgave her father). So even Rumpel’s cockamamie plan of turning Emma dark so that she can give the villains happy endings is without substance. WTH.

There’s also something really strange and perplexing going on with the writers and the characters here. In season 1, it was said that Emma would bring back the happy endings to these people, but it was because she was breaking everyone free from Regina’s Dark Curse (The Dark Curse 1.0) that had them trapped in a miserable Groundhog Day-esque existence. Regina’s curse stripped everyone of their identities and forced them into roles and behaviors dictated by Regina (which by the by, that was Regina’s happy ending that she got bored with 3 days into it, so shut your pothole about wanting to force the author to give you your happy ending, Regina. Backpfeifengesicht, indeed). By then breaking Regina’s curse, Emma essentially gave everyone back their free will and the possibilities that free will brings — the ability to reclaim or achieve your happy ending.

It wasn’t like Emma was literally handing out happy meals with everyone’s happy ending inside. That wasn’t it at all. The notion of Emma bring back happy endings wasn’t literal. But now? Now that literal interpretation seems to be the what the characters (and the writers) are pimping. And it’s bewildering and frankly, pull your hair right out of your scalp aggravating. Jeez, what the devil happened to this show? It used to be so much more sophisticated than this. Now it’s all black and white, evil fetuses, and literal happy ending giveaways like it’s The Price Is Right. Ugh. It’s like Henry is writing this show.

[Zuleikha]

And then early in the next episode we get the Reginagram that just flat-out tells them what's going on. So what was the point?

What would have been the point of Regina going undercover if she didn't tell them? Regina saw both the dagger and Rumple. Rumple's disguise with Belle wasn't to set up multi-episode tension; it was to get the dagger back in Rumple's hand. Which it did. 

 

 

 

It wasn’t like Emma was literally handing out happy meals with everyone’s happy ending inside. That wasn’t it at all. The notion of Emma bring back happy endings wasn’t literal.

I'm not sure about that. Emma did bring back multiple people's happy endings before she fully broke the curse, which was what weakened it and set up the events for the final breaking. (Off the top of my head, she restored Archie's, Hansel and Gretel's, Cinderella's, and Ruby's) She's obviously not doing that now--or at least not directly--but it doesn't seem inconsistent to me that her Savior magic could have a passive component to it that protects the book from whatever Rumple wants to do to switch the endings for villains and heroes. We don't know the details on Rumple's plan yet, but I think it's safe to assume that it's more than asking the Author nicely to pretty please write him a happy ending. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Zuleikha

[KingOfHearts]

I thought it would have been more suspenseful if Regina had gotten stuck with Team Villain and wasn't allowed to leave, like a hostage. I don't buy that they trust her to go off by herself. They themselves have mentioned multiple times that they don't trust her fully. Regina hasn't given them much reason to. If Rumple needed the page, I'm sure he could have devised a way to get it. Unless he knows she's a double agent and flat out doesn't care about his cover any more after getting the dagger.

Edited March 26, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[regularlyleaded]

I'm not sure about that. Emma did bring back multiple people's happy endings before she fully broke the curse, which was what weakened it and set up the events for the final breaking. (Off the top of my head, she restored Archie's, Hansel and Gretel's, Cinderella's, and Ruby's) She's obviously not doing that now--or at least not directly--but it doesn't seem inconsistent to me that her Savior magic could have a passive component to it that protects the book from whatever Rumple wants to do to switch the endings for villains and heroes. We don't know the details on Rumple's plan yet, but I think it's safe to assume that it's more than asking the Author nicely to pretty please write him a happy ending.

 

I disagree. Emma coming to Storybrooke weakened the curse and as a direct result weakend the curses influence over everyone, especially those she had direct contact with. And as a result of the weakening of the curse (brought about by Emma's presence in Storybrooke) is that these people were given the ability to control their lives and choose their own "endings".

 

It ties into the "Evil is made not born" adage that the writers loved to drum into everyone's head in seasons past. If evil is made and not born, then the same is true of goodness and happy endings. Goodness is made not born. Happy endings are made not born. It's all fundamentally about choice. And choice is exactly what Regina's curse robbed everyone of, and choice is exactly what Emma returned to them, and not instant happy endings that someone could simply hand out like lollipops. When Emma broke the curse, that irrevocably removed the curses influence over everyone, and therefore everyone was able to find their own "happy endings" if they chose to, but the point is that the choice was entirely up to them. 

 

Emma didn’t wave a magic wand over their heads and *poof* instant happiness, and yet that's what the show is now implying will happen when they find the author (or in lieu of the author what they can force Emma to do). Archie, Graham, Ruby, Hansel and Gretel, Mary Margaret, et al, they all were given the ability to make different choices and change their lives because Emma's presence was removing the influence of the curse that prior to her arrival prevented them from doing so. Once Emma broke the curse over the entire town that same opportunity (to find your happy ending) was extended to everyone that had been cursed in Storybrooke.

 

So no, IMO, what the show is selling now, particularly with Regina saying that she wants to force this mysterious author to give her a happy ending like it’s happy meal toy and everyone is buying into that nonsense is completely contrary to the initial premise of the show.

[Serena]

I agree with Zuleikha. I think Emma was, in a way, "giving out" happy endings. Not by literally giving them herself, but her words and encouragement inspired Archive to stand up to Regina, Hansel and Gretel's father to shape up and take care of them, etc. She was the catalyst, even though ultimately THEY had to make the choice to seize their happy ending. So I can see the reasoning "as long as Emma's there, no even the Darkest Curse Ever can permanently alter the rules of whatever and give villains happy endings." I mean, I think clearly it's not true, because Emma's arrival allowed Regina to build an actually functional, non-abusive relationship with Henry; allowed Rumple to reunite with Bae; gave Hook his happy ending, etc. so she's giving villains an happy ending as much as heroes, with the only problem being that the villains just aren't happy with what they have and always want more. 

[YaddaYadda]

She's obviously not doing that now--or at least not directly--but it doesn't seem inconsistent to me that her Savior magic could have a passive component to it that protects the book from whatever Rumple wants to do to switch the endings for villains and heroes.

 

This reminds me of Charmed and how some bad guys tried to turn the book evil a few times.

 

If Once is dipping in the Charmed pool for ideas, then there's a problem.

Edited March 25, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[DeLurker]

 

As soon as he's satisfied that Emma ...

I first read that as "As soon as he's satisfied Emma..." Yes, my mind is in the gutter.

With all this talk of Happy Endings it's challenging to not be in the gutter.

[Curio]

The ship in the bottle spell is of out of line with Elsa's power set that I'm going to headcanon that the spell itself was given to her by the rock trolls (if something's weird in Arendelle they're usually involved somehow). Elsa threw a rock or something at the Jolly Roger which is why Ariel thinks Elsa did it.  

 

At first, I thought Elsa being able to shrink the Jolly Roger was a huge plot contrivance and way out of her reach since she only has freezing powers. But then I remembered Seinfeld and it totally makes sense now.

 

Will: It's a bit small, innit?

Hook: Elsa turned the water freezing cold...

Will: Oh. You mean...shrinkage.

Hook: Yes. Significant shrinkage!

[Shanna Marie]

What would have been the point of Regina going undercover if she didn't tell them?

The in-story reason for Regina going undercover was for her to get info and share it, but from a storytelling perspective, it's the most pedestrian, least interesting way to go about things. It's rather boring to have a story in which a person goes undercover, easily gets the information (without even working for it, just being there when a person shows up) and easily passes it to the other characters. More interesting would be for things to go horribly wrong -- Regina gets in and learns that Rumple is back, but is foiled in her every attempt to warn the others, and meanwhile she's undergoing serious temptation because the villains are making far more progress toward info on the Author than she was making on her own. How far is she willing to go, and is she still undercover or is that just an excuse because her undercover mission is actually getting her what she wants most? And then the good guys are unaware of the danger they're in but eventually figure it out on their own, thanks to Rumple's emotions getting the best of him. They might not have known for a long time that he was back and had the dagger, but his inability to resist digging into Belle's relationship with Will left them the clues that revealed that it wasn't Hook who got the dagger.

 

While the Ursula story really did have that season one vibe to it, I think it might have been better served if it had really been handled in a season one way, with bits of the backstory trickling out in reverse chronological order over multiple episodes until we saw what started it all -- like the way they did with Rumple and Regina in season one. I feel like Ursula's redemption was missing a lot of impact because it came so quickly in her story. I wouldn't have wanted to see her slaughtering villages, but it might have been interesting if we'd started with her being banished to our world, then worked back to the time she was acting as a sea witch (it seems like Hook must have had at least some interaction with her after she stopped being a mermaid, considering that he wasn't present when that happened, he recognized her current appearance, and he kept referring to her as "sea witch" and "vile creature"), and then showed us how it all started. Meanwhile, her redemption really should have spanned more episodes -- like start with her voice back doesn't work so she goes back to the bad guys for a while, and it then takes some time for Hook and Ariel to figure out what to do, track down Poseidon and then reunite father and daughter. This seems like yet another case of them skipping the real, interesting drama in order to get the "surprise" moment. Yeah, we got the surprise when Poseidon walked in, but was that really worth skipping whatever convinced him not to kill the pirate who stole his daughter's voice and reinforced his views that people were awful? His turnaround was just as big as Ursula's, and it all happened offscreen.

 

The Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville for this episode was epic -- Hook learned that Blackbeard was alive and that he had a magic bean, he managed to track down Blackbeard and somehow convinced him to trade the ship for the bean instead of just killing him, taking the ship and keeping the bean. Then Ariel tracked down Blackbeard on the Jolly Roger, following him to Arendelle. Elsa must have arrested Blackbeard (or is he going to come out of the hold in Storybrooke?) and then shrunk the ship (did she even know it was Hook's ship? And what was the point of putting the ship in the bottle if Blackbeard was elsewhere?). Then in the immediate present, Ariel and Hook came up with a plan to find Poseidon, Ariel went back and persuaded him to come to Storybrooke, and she and Hook somehow convinced him to not seek revenge against Hook and to work with them to help Ursula.

 

I really shouldn't gripe so much about the episode because I liked it a lot and it's one of the better ones this season, but it still spotlights a lot of the writing weaknesses and it could have been so much better. That's what remains so frustrating about this show. It has all the ingredients to be epic and awesome, and it utterly squanders them.

[Zuleikha]

More interesting would be for things to go horribly wrong -- Regina gets in and learns that Rumple is back, but is foiled in her every attempt to warn the others, and meanwhile she's undergoing serious temptation because the villains are making far more progress toward info on the Author than she was making on her own.

 

That may have been more interesting to you, but I prefer what we got. I like seeing Regina actually be effective and seeing Regina and Team Charming work together. I'm glad to have August extracted (and praying that next episode FINALLY gets the exposition dump we so badly need--surely SOME character is going to ask August to explain how he learned what he learned about the Author and the Author's location, right?). I'm still plenty nervous for Regina, and I prefer being nervous for Regina's safety to being nervous about Regina undoing multiple seasons of character development. Also, I like having things not go exactly to plan for Rumple for once because I'm so tired of the Rumple-as-ultimate-mastermind thing.

 

I feel like Ursula's redemption was missing a lot of impact because it came so quickly in her story

This I agree with. I think it's the problem of the half-season arcs. The writers do these half-seasons because they have trouble pacing full seasons but then they cram in too much plot into the half season at the expense of character. Because the individual episode was pretty good, I was happy for Ursula when she got her voice back. But prior to this, I had no idea she was even missing anything. I still have no idea who she is as Ursula-the-Sea-Witch and what she has or hasn't done. 

[stealinghome]

I think Emma was, in a way, "giving out" happy endings. Not by literally giving them herself, but her words and encouragement inspired Archive to stand up to Regina, Hansel and Gretel's father to shape up and take care of them, etc. She was the catalyst, even though ultimately THEY had to make the choice to seize their happy ending. So I can see the reasoning "as long as Emma's there, no even the Darkest Curse Ever can permanently alter the rules of whatever and give villains happy endings."

I don't disagree, but I also think a fundamental logic fail (for me) in what the story is trying to sell is that Emma was only the Savior for the initial curse because Rumpel baked her in as such. Essentially, Emma was tied to that specific curse. Emma's not, to my understanding, some Mystical Vat Of Savior-ness Everywhere She Goes. It was curse-specific, because Rumpel baked her in. So why, under a completely different curse now (that Regina and Henry's TLK broke last season--which logically implies that one of them is now the Savior), is Emma still the Savior? That's what doesn't make sense to me. Emma being the Savior was only ever for the first curse.

 

The Savior moniker has given them soooo many problems since S1, they really just need to drop it.

[Camera One]

Less than two months ago, Rumple wanted to suck Emma into the Hat.  Now, after one convo with Regina in the car, he has decided that Emma needs to turn dark to allow the Author to write the villains a happy ending.  The mumbo-jumbo was so nonsensical my mind completely blanked when Ursula explained Rumple's master plan to Hook.  The writers are just writing themselves deeper and deeper into a hole.  Instead of revealing with every episode a new piece of the puzzle that fits in with what we know, they throw in completely random contrived curveballs that makes this more and more far-fetched.  "Ohhh, that makes sense the Author was stuck behind that door on that page all along," said no-one.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The in-story reason for Regina going undercover was for her to get info and share it, but from a storytelling perspective, it's the most pedestrian, least interesting way to go about things.

Espionage and secrets aren't as fun when they're revealed to the characters so quickly. Regina had barely begun her double agent work and found out Rumple was behind it all along. Hook made a deal with Ursula and discovered Rumple's plans in a single episode. Regina was able to send a detailed message through a chimney and now the whole town knows what's afoot. I'd appreciate more of the "who knows what" and "who's with who" business because this show tackles that concept so rarely. The plot details just jump from one point to another like it's running some sort of race.

 

When I was young, I wrote stories that moved very quickly, usually in attempt to get to a situation I wanted. "This happened! Oh and this happened! Then this happened!" No matter how ridiculous the plot points are, the only thing that mattered was getting to the "fun part". I believe the writers are doing the same thing here. They need to get from x to z, but to do that y needs to be contrived as flip. Sometimes that can work if it's clever (like the ship in a bottle), but it's definitely not working with this Author plot.

 

Why do they need the Author to be in a page? What was the purpose of August? It's confusing and weird.

 

 

The Savior moniker has given them soooo many problems since S1, they really just need to drop it.

They keep it to A) make Emma look special as if they cared about her, B) to keep her relevant by making her responsible for everyone's happiness, C) to keep her self-esteem and D) so they can pull magic crap out of a hat by using her Savior status as a plot device. 4B has been laying on a great deal of "D" lately. However, it's for setup, not payoff.

 

I agree they should retire the Savior title. I think they need to write her as a special and relevant character instead of slapping a label stating such.

Edited March 26, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Espionage and secrets aren't as fun when they're revealed to the characters so quickly. Regina had barely begun her double agent work and found out Rumple was behind it all along. Hook made a deal with Ursula and discovered Rumple's plans in a single episode. Regina was able to send a detailed message through a chimney and now the whole town knows what's afoot. 

 

Of all ironies, in 4A, the writers treated us with espionage where Henry found out nothing.  A few episodes back, I thought that maybe this Regina undercover thing could get interesting.  But the whole thing has been laughable, starting with the Queens of Darkness "testing" Regina.   I wouldn't be surprised if Rumple knew Regina was working undercover, since he apparently knows all when the writers want him to.  Remember Rumple with Emma's cell phone in 4A?   Even if Regina hadn't gone undercover, the heroes would still have gotten the same info from Hook if he did the same thing with Ursula as we saw in this episode.  

Edited March 26, 2015 by Camera One