S02.E02: Episode 2

[frenchtoast]

Thanks to jtrattray for the episode description from Radio Times!

 

The townspeople struggle to come to terms with recent events, and shock waves reverberate through Broadchurch. What will the impact be on the Latimers? Meanwhile, Paul continues his secret meetings and Hardy must face a figure from his past. Meera Syal guest stars in the mystery drama, alongside David Tennant and Olivia Colman.

[Automne]

Of course, Nigel again flying off the handle and never thinking before he acts and fucking shit up again. You really think Ellie was just going to move back into her house like nothing happened? Rub a couple of brain cells together, you fucking psychopath.

 

Hey, Beth, when you're knocked up, maybe you should keep yourself in check. And again, an unprovoked assault can only get you arrested, no matter your emotional circumstances. You were doing good that Becca hasn't sued you for damages to her property. I just really can't sympathize with Beth because she just acts like a total bitch to everybody, like her pain trumps everybody and everything and excuses her actions and behavior. I really hope Ellie finally lays into her. I personally need that catharsis, let alone Ellie needing to do so. Seriously, Ellie just did exactly what Beth and Mark and most of the town wanted to do. Should she have done it? No, but it was understandable.

 

Poor Hardy. He's seriously the only sane man in a land of idiot toddlers. Now two cases have blown up in his face because of the impulsive nature of the people around him. Especially the mentally deficient jackasses that inhabit Broadchurch. Holy shit. He's going to continually get labeled as a shit cop because people can't get a grip.

 

Getting smaller bugs and cameras that don't make sound obvious to the people you're recording might have been a smart idea, though. 

 

I wondered last episode where Beth's mother was. If there was a reference to her death then, I missed it, but it was made obvious this time around. That's too bad because she was the one person in Broadchurch that stayed logical as opposed to allowing her emotions to rule her (something that's clearly not genetic nor was taught, judging Beth's actions). Somebody needs to balance out Beth, or just put her into a straitjacket.

 

I'm amazed the confession got tossed. I'm surprised that in Britain, where Big Brother is always watching, they don't have surveillance cameras in confession rooms like they do in America. Here, everything would have been recorded, so there would have been timestamps of the recording and Ellie beating the crap out of Joe Miller and made it clear that the latter happened after the confession.

 

Joe Miller is truly the worst. Why make a confession and then want backsies? Same goes for the defense barrister. Of course defense lawyers/barristers are almost never sympathetic. The closest was David Tennant's character in The Escape Artist and that was only after things hit too close to home for him.

 

Gah, everybody on this show is pissing me off, except for Hardy and Ellie. I want to give them big hugs, tuck them in cozy beds, and make them soup.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Automne

[joelene]

I'm amazed the confession got tossed. I'm surprised that in Britain, where Big Brother is always watching, they don't have surveillance cameras in confession rooms like they do in America. Here, everything would have been recorded, so there would have been timestamps of the recording and Ellie beating the crap out of Joe Miller and made it clear that the latter happened after the confession.

This confused me too. Jocelyn said she'd "seen the tape" of Ellie beating up Joe, so there clearly was one. Or, what, there was a tape running with Joe sitting alone in the room but none when he actually confessed? The argument that he could have been assaulted earlier on would surely be laughable if they actually reviewed the tape. Idk, maybe this happens but it seems like a stretch.

Even more confusing is the stuff going on with Eve Myles and her killer husband (sorry, can't remember their names yet). Was Hardy expecting a confession if he got to see her? Was that the deal and I missed it? Why did he need to look for bugs (other than an excuse to feel her up)? And I know that Eve said she'd be scared that hubby would draw her in again with his sexy manly scent but her emotional state going from terror to butterflies and practically giddiness seemed very off to me. Maybe it's because the meeting was rushed but it seemed... sinister isn't the word, but it felt like something else was going on. I say she's in on the killings. I don't know how the hell he dragged her out of that house. She must have jumped at the chance to get away with him. I got the feeling from episode 1 that he was abusive but apparently he wasn't so I don't even understand why she's in hiding. I know Hardy's convinced he did it but he got off so why does she have to think that? Wasn't her only confession that she wasn't his alibi after all? Idk, the whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

And why the hell would Miller's house be the optimal location? How about a cafe?

Edited January 13, 2015 by joelene

[Automne]

The other thing is wouldn't the defense team need to do more than merely suggest to get the confession thrown out? Like having a doctor, a psychologist, and other objective professionals examine the injuries and taped confession to give an opinion if the injuries could have occurred beforehand, if Joe seemed to be under duress or otherwise coerced to give a confession, Hardy's demeanor, etc.?

 

Letting a mere suggestion be enough to toss out the meat of what would get a child killer and budding pedophile convicted and put behind bars is a little worrisome. 

 

They do have a fair bit of circumstantial evidence, don't they? Danny was strangled with Joe's bare hands, so they could do a match with the bruising with his hands. Plus, the shoes, whatever Owen's mother saw, etc. And what would be most effective is taking a timer and just counting down the time it would take to strangle an 11-year old child to death, which would be around 4 minutes (we were shown like 30 seconds, but Danny would have just passed out and spontaneously started breathing again in real life). Four minutes isn't long, but when it's illustrating somebody having their hands wrapped around a child's neck and depriving them of oxygen, it's a very long time. And it's hard to say it was an accident when it takes that long to kill somebody.

[staveDarsky]

Well, the writing last week hinted big time that the confession Joe made to Hardy in the  backyard shed/garage wouldn't hold because there was no recording or witnesses. What I really don't get is the extreme anger at Ellie as if she alone blew the case. In fact, It seemed like Ellie beating on Joe would help others see how appalled she was over his actions. I could understand all the anger being focused on Hardy, because ultimately he neglected to process Joe fully and keep Ellie from beating up on Joe.

Regarding the end scenes: Hardy was watching the front hall, so I think Ashworth took Claire out the front window. It looked like the curtains were flapping a bit. However, Hardy's run the wrong direction. Should have  headed down the drive/lane  beside the house.

Curious to see if Ellie and/or Hardy take Beth home, participate in the search for Mark or just call an ambulance. Or maybe the kid will already be born. If they do have to find Mark, then it lays the possibility to discover his meetings with Tom. But then, that's probably too soap opera-like.

I did like the side-by-side of Becca subtley denying services to the prosecution team and then Miller and Hardy hunkered down eating salad away from the town who doesn't want them either.  I imagine we'll see a recurring focus on characters being ostracized and lonely.

Edited January 13, 2015 by staveDarsky

[Automne]

Well, the writing last week hinted big time that the confession Joe made to Hardy in the  backyard shed/garage wouldn't hold because there was no recording or witnesses. What I really don't get is the extreme anger at Ellie as if she alone blew the case. In fact, It seemed like Ellie beating on Joe would help others see how appalled she was over his actions. I could understand all the anger being focused on Hardy, because ultimately he neglected to process Joe fully and keep Ellie from beating up on Joe.

Regarding the end scenes: Hardy was watching the front hall, so I think Ashworth took Claire out the front window. It looked like the curtains were flapping a bit. However, Hardy's run the wrong direction. Should have  headed down the drive/lane  beside the house.

Curious to see if Ellie and/or Hardy take Beth home, participate in the search for Mark or just call an ambulance. Or maybe the kid will already be born. If they do have to find Mark, then it lays the possibility to discover his meetings with Tom. But then, that's probably too soap opera-like.

I did like the side-by-side of Becca subtley denying services to the prosecution team and then Miller and Hardy hunkered down eating salad away from the town who doesn't want them either.  I imagine we'll see a recurring focus on characters being ostracized and lonely.

 

Beth's rantings said something about Ellie beating up Joe in order to get his confession thrown out in court so he gets off and then Ellie moving back into her house like nothing happened.

 

Beth wouldn't be going home; her water just broke prematurely. That's an emergency. Either an ambulance will be called or Ellie or Hardy will give Beth a ride to the hospital. And I'm sure Beth will start proceedings to sue Ellie for causing distress leading to whatever happens to the baby (first thing Beth says as she's leaking is, "LOOK AT WHAT YOU DID!" to Ellie).

 

I hope Ellie is there when she finds out Tom has been hanging out with Mark and Beth didn't know. I hope that's the catalyst for Ellie going off on Beth. I really just want that to happen.

[rozen]

I don't think the defense was disputing that Ellie attacked Joe after he confessed. She was insinuating that Ellie and Hardy may have purposefully had her come in and whale on him to cover up bruising from earlier, where Hardy beats Joe into a confession while in the shed. Which is comical, considering all of Hardy's health problems. Two hits and he'd send himself to a hospital.

 

How infuriating it must be, to have your every action interpreted as horribly as possible. The defense will make her out to be a shady cop, Beth thinks that beating Joe up is some super mastermind plan to get him acquitted. 

 

I'm getting pretty fed up with Hardy. 1st season there was a decent balance of his utter selfishness and occasional flashes of empathy. Now he's just gone full asshole. Ordering Claire around, screeching when she dares to try and understand details of the case, forcing her back into her old home. And I'm sure next episode he'll nag at her for not just shoving Beth to the ground so she could continue to monitor the exits like a good little soldier. He needs a few swift kicks to the ribs to gain some prospective. 

 

Was Beth seriously trying to blame Ellie for her rage-induced water breaking? She truly is an infant, wailing at the boogeyman for causing all her troubles. I don't know how much longer I can stand watching Ellie get dumped on, she's such a nice person. At least she could blame her job from keeping her away from home, and noticing her husband was off. Beth wasn't doing anything but sitting home and scrubbing baths, and didn't  notice that every member of her family was knee-deep in shit.

 

I didn't even realize the tavern lady was intentionally trying to hinder the defense. I just thought she was an idiot, but that makes more sense. Ollie's tweeting is going to get really trashy, really fast. 

[dbrits]

Right, I've never wanted to smack a fictional pregnant woman until now. Beth's behavior is truly abhorrent. I know she's trying to find an outlet for her anger but it shouldn't be directed towards Ellie. How on earth could she blame Ellie for causing her water to break when she was the one allowing herself to get worked up into a tizzy?

Lee is a first-class creep. I'm still on the fence about Claire's involvement in the Sandbrook murders but it doesn't appear that she put up a fight before she disappeared and that makes her all the more suspicious to me. I honestly hope that at the end of this, Hardy is vindicated. I feel bad for him and for Ellie, more so than I do for Beth and Mark.

I did enjoy the hotel owner (gah, I forgot her name) making it difficult for the defense team to work on their case. It's a nice way of saying "screw you" with a smile.

And show, please do not let "Miller, I could kiss you" foreshadow anything. At all. Just no.

[fresiaa]

I didn't like the "tossing the confession out". Too simple a cop out for what is supposed to be an intelligent drama.

Even more as the words "husband, wife, case of domestic violence" were not inserted at all by witness and defence team.

 

I did like Jocelyns little speech at the "beginning of the trial party" (who does that?). Especially when she warned not to hide anything. Cue funny looks by Ollie, Marks assistant and the daughter.

[Automne]

 

Which is comical, considering all of Hardy's health problems. Two hits and he'd send himself to a hospital.

 

That's a damn good point. Why didn't the prosecution have that information and use that to argue against the defense's insinuation that Hardy beat up Joe? Hardy had just been given a medical discharge that day because he collapsed while running after a suspect and had to be hospitalized. And he had just been hospitalized not long before that when he collapsed from little exertion. 

 

How exactly could Hardy hold up in a fight against a healthy Joe Miller? Is the defense going to sit there and say that Joe did not attempt to defend himself in this shed beating scenario?

[joelene]

I did like Jocelyns little speech at the "beginning of the trial party" (who does that?). Especially when she warned not to hide anything. Cue funny looks by Ollie, Marks assistant and the daughter.

And Ellie's sister, chugging down on her glass of wine. She indicated in episode 1 that she knew something in her scene with Ollie.

Good point about the health problems and alleged shed beating, especially since Hardy didn't have a gun to help threaten Joe with (he didn't, right?). That whole scenario has to be examined beat by beat in court then? I wonder what the defense is going with. Hardy lured Joe to the shed I beat him up? He happened to be in the shed when Hardy arrived? And why would he choose Joe - his partners husband who wasn't even a person of interest - to beat a confession out of? With Tom, the son, being in the house! I suppose they could argue he wouldn't have been able to hear the beatings because he was playing video games but Hardy couldn't have planned that. Arrrgh, it's just so frustrating. I still can't believe the judge just threw out the confession like that (though shout-out to Meera Sayil appearing and I loved that the three big wigs in court are not only women but one senior and two of colour).

I agree that Beth's Ellie abusive needs to stop. I'm not hating on Beth as hard yet but I will if it doesn't stop soon.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

For a second, I thought that once Beth found out Ellie kicked the crap out of Joe, she would realize that Ellie was truly shocked and horrified that Joe killed Danny. But no, she somehow interpreted Ellie's outburst as a way to keep Joe out of jail. What the hell, Beth? She reminds me of a girl I knew who somehow managed to make herself a victim in every situation.

 

I felt bad for Beth when she told Mark they should go on one last date before the baby is born and he kept shooting her down. Dude, this is your wife! And she's knocked up with your kid. Maybe get your head out of your ass for two seconds and spend some time with her like she wants. But then I laughed when he told her he wasn't getting any customers and then in the next breath said he had to leave for work.

 

Anyway, I was soooooo annoyed with Beth when she spent a good two minutes yelling at Ellie and berating her for everything only to then blame her water breaking on Ellie. Yes, obviously it's the fault of the person who was standing there minding her own business, not the woman working herself up into a lather.

 

I also thought it was a bit ridiculous that Beth was so offended that Ellie had the absolute gall to come back to town. It's not like she moved back and was sitting out on her lawn drinking a glass of lemonade. No one knew she was back and she was at her own house for the first time since Joe was arrested and she left town. Heaven forbid the poor woman would want to come back and retrieve any of her sons' belongings from the house. Won't she be called as a witness too? I don't know how far the courthouse is but it's not surprising that she would be back in the area because of the trial.

 

Speaking of which, yeah, throwing out that confession made no sense for all the reasons discussed above.

 

I initially thought that Claire didn't want to see her husband because she was afraid he would hurt her. Interesting that the real reason was she didn't want to get sucked back in due to her apparent inability to resist his creepy charm.

[staveDarsky]

Beth was pretty clearly breathing hard at home when Nige burst in. It seems she was already in labour.

 

I didn't get the sense the baby was premature. The timeline is something like this:
In s1e2, just two or three days after Danny's death, Beth told the vicar she'd known for 2 weeks already that she was pregnant, so she had to be at least a month into it by then. Probably closer to 2 months.

In s2e1, Claire said she'd been in her little hideaway for 7 months and Hardy connected that to his arrival in town, which from series 1, was a week before Danny's death.
At least a few days have passed  between episode 1 and the end of episode 2.

If she isn't right on time, then she's probably just days early. 

 

Having said that, I don't think she'll get back home for her water birth. It would be a twist to have her give birth in the Miller house with Ellie and Alec attending her, before any help can get there.
 

Good point about the health problems and alleged shed beating, especially since Hardy didn't have a gun to help threaten Joe with (he didn't, right?).

 

I don't remember ever seeing Alec with a gun in Broadchurch series 1.
Warning Gracepoint

They made a big point of Emmett Carver handing in his gun in Gracepoint, but nothing like that in Broadchurch.

Edited January 13, 2015 by staveDarsky

[Llywela]

I don't remember ever seeing Alec with a gun in Broadchurch series 1.

Warning Gracepoint

They made a big point of Emmett Carver handing in his gun in Gracepoint, but nothing like that in Broadchurch.

That's because British police don't carry weapons as standard. So he didn't have a gun to hand in.

[fresiaa]

Confession:

When Meera Syal walked in in a track suit, I thought she was the cleaning lady the defense had dug up.

Bit of cunning editing there: they showed the defense lawyer waiting, and only later showed Jocelyn :)

[Ravenya003]

I've been trying to be sympathetic toward Beth, I really have, but honestly - now it's Ellie's fault that she went into labour? What next? She sprains her ankle and it's all because of Ellie? 

 

I had to laugh when Jocelyn insists that the case rests on the witnesses' shoulders, Beth replies that nobody has anything left to hide, and the entire freaking room starts casting guilty sideways glances. Jocelyn's first instincts were correct: she should have stayed in her lofty house on the hill and let these morons deal with their own shit. As with the initial investigation, their crap is what's going to hinder the court case. 

 

Okay, I probably should have let myself wind down a little before immediately posting on the episode, but in any drama that strives for realism and messy human emotions, I'm still going to need at least one person I can root for. 

 

At least the disappearance of Beth's mother has been accounted for, though where's Chloe's boyfriend? 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Ravenya003

[ganesh]

I just really can't sympathize with Beth because she just acts like a total bitch to everybody, like her pain trumps everybody and everything and excuses her actions and behavior.

 

I've never liked her since the beginning of the series. She's basically taken the gloves off. She's just not a nice person. On another show, the "who is on trial here" line would be cliche, but that's perfectly her. You're on the witness stand in court and you don't think you have to answer the questions? Of course, you don't, Beth. 

 

Here, everything would have been recorded, so there would have been timestamps of the recording and Ellie beating the crap out of Joe Miller and made it clear that the latter happened after the confession.

 

They weren't disputing the confession. The defense lawyer hopped on the part with Hardy/Miller not being recorded prior to toss some confusion into the whole thing. It seemed to me that this court scene left a lot on the table that will be visited again. As it was said, no way could Hardy have beaten him up. The prosecutor would most certainly have to bring that up. If the confession got thrown out, can it be brought back in? I think it should be easy enough to prove the confession wasn't under duress.

 

I didn't think I was going to like this season because I don't want to spend all the time in the courtroom. But what I like is that their revisiting the first season from a totally different pov. 

 

It didn't look like the prosecutor knew about the affair either. 

 

Was Hardy expecting a confession if he got to see her?

 

He was fishing for anything. 

[staveDarsky]

The defense lawyer hopped on the part with Hardy/Miller not being recorded prior to toss some confusion into the whole thing. It seemed to me that this court scene left a lot on the table that will be visited again. As it was said, no way could Hardy have beaten him up. The prosecutor would most certainly have to bring that up. If the confession got thrown out, can it be brought back in? I think it should be easy enough to prove the confession wasn't under duress.

 

When I first read Hardy/Miller I jumped to Hardy telling Ellie, but I see you mean Hardy interviewing Joe.

But then it occurred to me, if Ellie's interview with Nige was being recorded, might Hardy telling Ellie be on the end of that video. If so, it would show that Hardy had no bruises on him, which would at least prove he didn't beat Joe by hand.

 

Seems there are lots of holes in series 1 episodes that can be explored.

[ganesh]

The defense lady pretty much laid out the deal: poke holes in the prosecutor's bricks. If she has an answer for it, like proving Miller couldn't/wasn't assaulted prior to the confession, etc., then she's going to be set. 

 

The thing think I'm liking about this second series is that the trial is bringing out how awful these people really are. 

 

I think the point is that he's going to be found guilty, but it's the getting there that is the core of this current series. 

[Kathira]

I think there's at least a possibility that Joe will be acquitted, or get off for lack of evidence, which would parallel the Sandbrook case, where the guy that Hardy was sure did it got off because of mishandled evidence. Poor Hardy. Ellie really does need to get him that "Worst Cop in Britain" t-shirt.

 

Joe being acquitted would set up the third series, if that's what they want. There has been some indication of that from various sources, although obviously nothing official yet. That could be the end of this series - the Sandbrook case is resolved and the Broadchurch case is left wide open.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Kathira

[ganesh]

No, I think they're both going to be resolved. The Sandbrook case will have some twist where Eve Myles is in on it, and Miller is going to be found guilty. Hardy will get some measure of redemption. 

 

I think it would be weird given how Hardy and Miller did do a legit investigation that Joe Miller would walk. That's a little too much angst.

 

This is a good show, but I think it should end with series 2.

[Vella]

This episode was stupid. Hardy really is, suddenly, the worst cop in Britain. Why on earth didn't he consider a hotel room in a nearby town with ONE entrance/exit?  He picks Miller's house, despite the fact she hasn't been back there and despite the fact that he can't see a damn thing from where he's standing. He STILL refuses to take into consideration the trauma that SHE is still going through and alternates between screeching demands at her or hissy fitting when she questions him or wants to know what's going on.

 

I don't know what the show is going for with Beth and Mark, but they are WHOLLY unsympathetic right now. Mark with his secret friendship with Tom and Beth and her constantly blaming Miller.

 

Plus, the confession gets tossed for the flimsiest of reasons and why does the prosecutor not know about Mark's affair? She seemed constantly surprised by what people were saying on the stand.

 

Just...ugh. Get it together Broadchurch.

[ganesh]

To be fair, in this episode, they showed that there's only one hotel in town and the owner is a complete busybody. Where else are they going to go. It's been established that Hardy leans on Miller way way too much, so it's not like using her house is out of nowhere. 

 

Miller hasn't been back to her house in a while, and if the bald guy didn't see them, they would have been fine. The ending was a little contrived, but I can buy it.

 

I think the point is that everyone in this town is so on top of each other. 

[staveDarsky]

The timing was off though.

Nige saw Ellie leaving her house, goes to tell Beth and she doesn't come over until Ellie's driven all the way to Claire's and back? And if the sequence of scenes is to be followed, then Nige didn't even arrive at Beth's until Ellie and Claire were on the road back. 

 

So just how far away is Claire's place? And why did it take Nige so long to drive around the field to Beth and Mark's? 

 

I'm probably being too anal, but the timing bugged me on rewatch.

[joelene]

If an event is bothering you it's easier to nitpick to reinforce that feeling, I think. So I don't blame you. The timing didn't bother me personally but most everything else about that whole sequence of events did.

Episode 1: Grade A.

Episode 2: Grade C.

[solotrek]

I don't know what the show is going for with Beth and Mark, but they are WHOLLY unsympathetic right now. Mark with his secret friendship with Tom and Beth and her constantly blaming Miller.

 

To be fair, was Mark that sympathetic a character since hiding his affair rather than immediately clearing himself as a suspect to keep the investigation going?

[Lyndy]

Man, I knew I'd find some kindred spirits around here. On paper, I should sympathize with Beth and her horrible, impossible situation but man... I really want to punch her in the face. A lot.

 

Olivia Coleman is still killing it though.

 

So, what's the deal with Nigel, anyway? Is he just biding his time until Beth and Mark inevitably split up so he can tap that? He's coming off like a bit of a creeper.

[Pippin]

Episode 2 aired Sunday and a few random thoughts.

 

I understand that between grief, hormones and a stressful situation, Beth is not firing on all cylinders, but still, Beth?  SHUT UP.  Go sit in a corner somewhere, or better yet, go sit in a shrink's office until you resemble a rational human being again.

Colour me unimpressed with the prosecutor, Joyce.  I like to think my man Jack McCoy would have been all over the defense's case like white on rice.  I'm not a lawyer but when the defense was asking about affairs, etc. I would have been on my feet, demanding "Relevance?"  Even if the judge overruled my objections, I'd be doing my best to remind the jury (with said objections) that the case is about whether or not the defendent put his hands around the throat of a child and strangled the life out of him.  Not about the imperfections of his parents who are not suspects.
 

And I understand this is TV, and so was written for same, but I found the judge's excluding the confession to be unrealstic, to say the least.  For such a major decision, I would expect a conference in-chamber at the very least, and written submissions from both defense and prosecution on the motion.  I would also expect that the judge would take at least a day to think about it.  As it stands, the prosecution (if on her toes) should appeal the decision should she lose the case; as has been pointed out, Hardy could hardly have physically assaulted Joe.  (I believe that like Canada, the UK does not have double jeopardy and so the prosecution can apply for a new trial, especially if new evidence comes to light, or a judicial error can be proved.)

[secnarf]

And I understand this is TV, and so was written for same, but I found the judge's excluding the confession to be unrealstic, to say the least.  For such a major decision, I would expect a conference in-chamber at the very least, and written submissions from both defense and prosecution on the motion.  I would also expect that the judge would take at least a day to think about it.  As it stands, the prosecution (if on her toes) should appeal the decision should she lose the case; as has been pointed out, Hardy could hardly have physically assaulted Joe.  (I believe that like Canada, the UK does not have double jeopardy and so the prosecution can apply for a new trial, especially if new evidence comes to light, or a judicial error can be proved.)

Actually, Canada does have double jeopardy laws - it's in Section 11 of the Charter. You can appeal a court decision (conviction or acquital) if you believe there was an error in judgment/application of law, but that is considered a continuation of the same trial. If an appeal is not granted, and new evidence later comes to light, you don't get a new trial. In the case of Joe Miller's trial, you could appeal on the grounds that excluding the confession was a legal error, and double jeopardy would only be an issue if the appeal is denied.

I don't know about the UK, but I'd assume it's similar since the justice systems have similar roots.

But yeah, it frustrated me to no end that they excluded the confession - such flimsy reasoning, and the prosecutor didn't even try to point that out.

Nigel and Beth are both irritating me.

Edited January 21, 2015 by secnarf

[Pippin]

Thanks for the clarification, secnarf.  I didn't know the exact details; I just knew that it is possible to get more than one bite at the apple.  I know that the Crown can appeal a sentence that it considers too lenient, for example, and I know that there were a couple of retrials in high profile murder cases.  (I wish Karla Homolka had been one of them, but I digress.) 

And what's annoying is that I think that the exclusion of the confession could have been written more realistically and maybe have upped the tension a bit to boot.  Ah, well, too late to do anything about it now!

[mledawn]

Ugh, I can't even with Karla Homolka and how she's free and has children and we paid to teach her French and give her a degree!!! Sorry, I am the same age as Kristen French and played soccer against her, so the whole Bernardo/Homolka scenario still chafes.

 

Topic: I'm hoping they're setting up the counsel for the defense because she is awfully cocky.

 

Shut up, Beth - you are horrible.

[BetyBee]

I still have a great deal of sympathy towards Beth. She is the mother of a murdered child, married to and pregnant by her idiot husband. I think blaming Ellie for her water breaking was over the top, but I believe it was written as a means to bring them close again and as the typical trope of the woman in labor screaming about everything and everyone. It will take time, but I believe they will be drawn close again.  Ellie was shocked that she didn't see what was going on right under her nose and Beth doesn't see what is going on under hers. In any case, if I were in Beth's shoes, I'd probably be a bitch on wheels for life.

[Nijntje]

Actually, Canada does have double jeopardy laws - it's in Section 11 of the Charter. You can appeal a court decision (conviction or acquital) if you believe there was an error in judgment/application of law, but that is considered a continuation of the same trial. If an appeal is not granted, and new evidence later comes to light, you don't get a new trial. In the case of Joe Miller's trial, you could appeal on the grounds that excluding the confession was a legal error, and double jeopardy would only be an issue if the appeal is denied.

 

I don't know about the UK, but I'd assume it's similar since the justice systems have similar roots.

 

The UK actually changed the double jeopardy laws about 10 years ago to allow retrial after acquittal of serious crimes if new evidence comes to light.

[truthaboutluv]

I tried watching this season, having found out about the show from watching Gracepoint and being curious to see where they would take this in a second season. And I can tell that where they're taking it is bullshit. As I said in another thread, I admit that most of my crime show watching is American television so maybe British law works different but I think it was complete and utter bullshit that that confession got thrown out. 

 

Multiple officers saw Alex take Joe in from the shed, into the car and then into the station. If Alex had violently beat him into a confession, where were the bruises? Wouldn't someone have seen them? On top of that he changed into prison wear by the time Ellie found out what he'd done. Wouldn't the officers who oversaw his being processed see bruises if they existed or were they all in on this massive conspiracy? More importantly, there are video cameras in the interrogation room - if Joe had any bruises on his face, neck it would show and wouldn't he look hurt if he'd been violently attacked by Alex? Maybe walk differently, look like he was in pain? He didn't. 

 

Then there is the conversation when Ellie came in. She didn't just start kicking his ass. She asked him why first and he said nothing, never mentioned it's not like it seems, try to explain. This is his wife, she's a detective and he doesn't tell her that Alex violently beat him up to force the confession? The only tangible evidence of Joe being attacked was Ellie attacking him well after the confession was received. She didn't come in and beat him up on a suspicion of his guilt and then he confessed. He confessed and was brought in and repeated his confession on tape and later his wife, who just found out he murdered an 11 year old kid kicked his ass but that was enough to get the confession thrown out? Bull-freaking-shit. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, for all the criticisms of Gracepoint and how much more superior Broadchurch is, both shows have some serious writing issues. I am mildly interested in the old case as I'm pretty sure the woman left willingly with the husband and I'm curious to find out if she'd been playing Alex all this time, if they were both in on the killings, was it her and she threw blame on him, etc. But this trial with Joe is annoying me so much that I don't know if I can do it. Meanwhile Beth continues to annoy greatly.

Edited February 14, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[ganesh]

Did you watch Broadchurch series 1 first? 

[truthaboutluv]

Yes I did. As I said, I found out about the show when I discovered Gracepoint and knew it was based on Broadchurch. When I found out they were doing a second season of Broadchurch I was surprised because I couldn't figure out where they would go in a second season. I actually thought maybe there would be another murder. So I watched the first season of Broadchurch just to be completely caught up and just started watching the second season.

Edited February 14, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[staveDarsky]

The e-books that were published following each episode give a little detail people are wondering about, not seen in series 2. Since they were written under the supervision of Chris Chibnall they're fairly close to canon. I'll put the little bit of detail we learn from each book into the corresponding episode thread.

 

From the e-book for episode 2:

Maggie's struggling to keep the Broadchurch Echo afloat, hence the move to a smaller office. Karen White, the out-of-town reporter from series 1 has taken a job in Dubai. We don't see her in series 2.

Edited March 6, 2015 by staveDarsky

[stopeslite]

So I'm guessing the storyline with the prosecutor is that she used to be underhanded and slimy, the same way her protege is, and once she managed to get somebody off the hook who then went and murdered a few other people, and that's what made her leave the profession altogether? So she came back because she knew exactly how sketchy her former student would be, and wanted to use this case to make amends for her last one? That's if they can swap back and forth between being defense and prosecution, though, which I don't know if UK barristers can. 

 

Judge lady, you are terrible. You should have been the cleaning lady at the station instead. That was bogus. As was Jocelyn not raising all of the objections everyone here has, unless part of the plot is "Beth and Mark screwed up again by picking the wrong barrister". 

 

And again, SHUT UP BETH. I can't believe Ellie let herself be distracted that way. I can't believe Ellie was that far away from the damned door; she should have been right up on the porch, and Ellie should have just said I CAN'T TALK TO YOU RIGHT NOW BETH GO AWAY. 

 

So the bluebell - one of the pics in the file was of a forest full of bluebells; was that the place where the one girl's body was found? And does that make it a really creepy memento, or something that was mailed to him to say "I know you did it", or what? And why did Claire have an envelope with her addressed to her husband, anyway? And why did Hardy act so surprised to find it, when Ellie told him about it in the last episode?

 

Gaaa. This show is starting to annoy me. The first one was so well written, and this one seems to be so not that so far.

 

ETA: Wait, there are books that you have to buy to read along to really understand it? I can't decide if that's a nice way to expand the universe more, or a cop-out because they couldn't figure out how to get all of the crucial information in the actual show itself, and is a bald money grab. Ugh.

Edited March 12, 2015 by stopeslite

[Bebecat]

I am really hating the defense...I hate that anyone would defend this pervert. I know, I know, but still.

And I dislike how easily the confession was tossed...all she had to do was suggest things that could have happened? And that's that? What a load of bull. I don't see that as being in the interest of justice. It should have been an issue for the jury to decide.

Beth has been behaving so crazy, you would think she has forgotten she was pregnant...hasn't she ever been told it is not good for the baby to have emotional outbursts and basically lose her sh*t? Yes I feel sorry for her and I am no Ellie fan, but geez, lady. She did not kill the child, she was just a dim, bad cop. And now she has managed to lose the confession and the guy they were trying to nail for the other case.

I am getting really bad vibes about Miller going free in the end. I tend to think UK justice is a bit lenient anyway...sentences never seem to be enough for me. I just hope the jury can see past the BS. But not hopeful.

If he is acquitted, the next series could have him murdered by an angry townsperson...that would provide plenty of suspects.

[archer1267]

Beth, SHUT UP! You of all people should understand how the emotion of the moment gets you to do things you wouldn't ordinarily do...like, PUT YOUR HANDS ON A COP. At least here in the US, that'd be assault of a police officer but I know, I know, this is TV and Ellie is too nice a character to take a hard line on a grieving mum.

 

But still...shut up, Beth!

 

Interesting development that the pastor appears to be Beth's brother, unless that was mentioned in S1 and I missed it.

 

So Claire and Ashworth escaped through a window within 2-3 minutes and no one saw or heard anything?

Edited March 12, 2015 by archer1267

[dbklmt]

Interesting development that the pastor appears to be Beth's brother, unless that was mentioned in S1 and I missed it.

 

 

No he's not her brother.  He was someone who loved her in the past, but lost her in marriage to Mark.

[alias1]

Throwing out the confession so quickly did seem to be unwarranted on the flimsy evidence cited by the defense.  But this isn't over.  They've portrayed the prosecutor as a very savvy and clever lawyer and I think there will be a lot more to come.  They are just settings things up.  I really like that we are seeing the aftermath of what happened in season one.  On most tv shows they get the killer and they're done and go on to something else.  

 

It seems to me that Claire went with Lee willingly and I just don't trust her.  He actually seems nicer than she does.  And to me, she seems like she's acting, whether that's the character or the actress I don't know.  I'm inclined to think she set him up to take the fall for the two girls.  (I just can't believe anything bad about Jarvis, not yet, anyway.)

 

I would like to reach through my television and throttle Beth!

[Constantinople]

This show is circling the drain.

 

Police officers don't understand how criminal trials work and need a Trials for Dummies lecture by the prosecuting attorney?

 

Attorneys aren't supposed to speak to witnesses before trial (the family), except when they are (the police)?

 

Motions to preclude evidence aren't heard before the trial starts?

 

Attorneys can ask any question they want even if it's not relevant or the witness only has second-hand knowledge?

 

A confession is tossed out because the defendant might have been assaulted before giving the confession even though there's no evidence for it?  Wouldn't there be photographs and videotape of Joe in the station pre-beatdown?

 

Plus the Sandbrook story is not grabbing me and I fear its resolution will be tied-up with Broadchurch in the most boring way possible.

[staveDarsky]

You don't have to buy the ebooks to follow the series. They just add a little flavour to the second series.

[stopeslite]

 

I'm inclined to think she set him up to take the fall for the two girls.

 

I just had a similar thought this morning - that it was really her instead of him. I was thinking, though, that she might have done it out of jealousy. She said that she was irrational where he was concerned, so maybe he was leering at the girls from next door or something and she took that as a threat, and he's trying to cover for her. (and then there will be a huge confrontation with him and Ellie where he says if she loved Joe enough, she would have done the same for him) 

 

On Joe - someone had to watch him change into the prison outfit, right? I don't know if they would have taped that part, but somebody at the station saw him naked, so they should be able to testify that he had zero bruises. 

[pasdetrois]

 

Gaaa. This show is starting to annoy me. The first one was so well written, and this one seems to be so not that so far.

I hated this episode and was shocked at how bad it was, especially after last year as well as last week's first episode. It's as if a completely different set of writers wrote it. It was astoundingly trite and predictable - I mean I knew how every single scene was going to pan out. And parts of it were just downright stupid and illogical.

[archer1267]

No he's not her brother.  He was someone who loved her in the past, but lost her in marriage to Mark.

 

OK, thanks. Guess I made that leap when she said "I'm at Mom's grave."

[Kathira]

 

Attorneys aren't supposed to speak to witnesses before trial (the family), except when they are (the police)?

This is a British thing. In the US, attorneys routinely go over testimony in advance with witnesses, but that's not allowed in the UK. As far as her talking to Hardy and Miller, I think that talking to the police involved in the case is OK. And she obviously went over the rules for the benefit of the audience. That kind of thing happens all the time on tv. Character are always having to talk about things they already know, or ask stupid questions, so that the audience can know stuff. 

 

There were complaints about the depiction of the legal proceedings when it was shown in Britain, but Chris Chibnall had it all vetted by legal consultants and apparently they get up to these kinds of shenanigans all the time. The trial is meant to show just the dramatic highlights, not all the procedural details.

 

And confessions do get thrown out for all kinds of reasons that seem bogus to people outside the legal system. There was one in the news recently - http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-tosses-confession-teacher-murder-trial-philip-chism-n316841  That one got tossed because apparently the kid wasn't paying attention when they read him his rights.

 

As for what's going on with Lee and Claire, that's a big question. 

[staveDarsky]

A pair of fellow Broadchurch fans did a wonderful series of podcasts, one following each episode. They helped enhance my experience of series 2.
Here's the link to the episode 2 podcast on Youtube. I hope you give it a go and enjoy.
http://youtu.be/tvbkJhRGlao

[Primetimer]

As Joe's trial begins, confrontations end poorly for everyone involved.

Read the story