Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Sew Sumi]

Her name was originally Michal, but Gil and Kelly discovered that she wasn't an upstanding biblical character. They could only change one letter legally at no charge, so they went with Michael.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[louannems]

That is the weirdest name story I have heard.

[Defrauder]

They can control themselves and they know it. It's just too damaging to the foundation of the Cult of the Holy Phallus to make men ultimately responsible for anything.

I'm not convinced.  I really think they don't trust themselves to control themselves around women, especially women who expose their knees or gasp - thighs.  I mean Michelle had to black out her knees in her water skiing photo.  Men get divorced from watching teenagers mowing the lawn in bikinis. They don't expect themselves to have any control.  Wives have to be 'joyfully' available for this very reason.  I all of a sudden feel sorry for the girl they named 'Joy".  

[3girlsforus]

I think they can control themselves in the way we think of controlling oneself. But they've redefined what it means to be "inappropriate". It is perfectly normal to see someone to whom you are not married and think 'Yum!!'. Physical attraction isn't wrong. For most of us, seeing someone we find attractive, that isn't our spouse, is normal and benign. It doest make us want to cheat or jump someone. But they've decided that any physical feeling or attraction is evil. So it's no wonder they think they can't control themselves. If I defined thinking 'nice butt' as not controlling myself then yea - I probably couldn't control myself either. So that's why they need to isolate themselves from others and from all visual stimulation. Because they are humans and humans might find someone visually appealing which for some inexplicable reason is not acceptable.

Edited April 11, 2016 by 3girlsforus

[Defrauder]

I believe her legal name is Michael but they pronounce it Michaela.

Here's the lowdown on how she got her name.  From the Bates Family Blog:

 

What is the story behind the oldest Bates daughter's name? When she was born, her parents named her "Michal," but when Gil and Kelly realized the negative connotation of the name while reading through their Bible, they changed the spelling to "Michael."

As a young child, Michael was unhappy about having a name that was traditionally male, so her family started calling her "Michaella." Today, she goes by either Michaella or Michael and does not prefer one over the other, but her legal name is still Michael.

[3girlsforus]

Here's the lowdown on how she got her name.  From the Bates Family Blog:

 

What is the story behind the oldest Bates daughter's name? When she was born, her parents named her "Michal," but when Gil and Kelly realized the negative connotation of the name while reading through their Bible, they changed the spelling to "Michael."

As a young child, Michael was unhappy about having a name that was traditionally male, so her family started calling her "Michaella." Today, she goes by either Michaella or Michael and does not prefer one over the other, but her legal name is still Michael.

 

Of course it has negative connotations. Michal chose to save her husband, David, over the objections of her father. And even when her father tried to get rid of David by giving him other wives, Michal eventually found her way back to him. So evil is the woman who thinks for herself and makes choices her father didn't tell her to

[mimionthebeach]

You know it's pretty sad that this is 'loosening the reigns'. My first thought when I read that was how these stupid rules encourage lying and deception. These young adults have to create fake scenarios just to hang out together because their parents are so sick and controlling they couldn't possibly just say 'hey I'm going to dinner with someone'. They aren't sneaking around to have sex, although I'm sure that happens with many fundie kids. They are sneaking around just to spend some time together. That's disturbing.

Independent of what??

Any source of income, apparently.

[Churchhoney]

 

 

Independent of what??

 

...of reality?

[Churchhoney]

So at what point did Maxwell decide that working as an engineer was intolerable? I am assuming he would have had to go through the education to become an engineer which is no small feat. So at that time he must not have believed in only working for the Gothard machine. I just don't get it. I can see someone like Boob agreeing with a mandate to only work for yourself. He has no education and no career to give up. But someone who went through the effort to have a career wouldn't easily walk away from it, especially with so many mouths to feed. I wonder why he would even bother to get the education if he wasn't supposed to have a job and working environment would be so intolerable. It seems that at some point he had less insane ideas. 

 

Well, I wonder whether it's just that, earlier in life, he didn't see any alternative to a mainstream path, even though his craziness made the mainstream path distasteful to him ..... And then maybe later he became acquainted with the Gothard machine and resonated with its pathologies because they were so similar to his pathologies? And then he jumped. ....

 

I mean, there really aren't a lot of niches in our society where a sick, fearful control freak like Steve M could feel really comfortable and like a natural fit .... so people like that might see mainstream jobs and education as their only option until they suddenly run into ATI and feel that a light has shined on them. .... I think that's what happened with Boob, too, except that Boob's an idiot and hadn't gone as far down the mainstream education path as Maxwell and Doc Paine and so on did before they found the sicko cult that matched their own sicko-ness.

[Marigold]

It amuses me that a Bates FEMALE has a MALE name.

Kinda gender bender for a Bates.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Marigold

[Churchhoney]

He says he started homeschooling in 1985. Sarah must have been born in 1982 and would have been 3. So did the older kids go to public school at all, or did he quit his job when the oldest was 5 or so? And Mom Maxwell is college educated yet unable to do the homeschooling? This family might be even more screwed up than the Duggars.

 

And what is God's thoughts on the whole vasectomy thing? Was it the devil's fault? Does that kick Steve out of the box seating in the afterlife?

 

Mom Max has done a lot of the homeschooling. It's not just Steve. She writes a lot about homeschooling and a surprising amount of it is pretty intelligent and sensible, actually. They're clearly not dumb. Just insane.

[Churchhoney]

I think they can control themselves in the way we think of controlling oneself. But they've redefined what it means to be "inappropriate". It is perfectly normal to see someone to whom you are not married and think 'Yum!!'. Physical attraction isn't wrong. For most of us, seeing someone we find attractive, that isn't our spouse, is normal and benign. It doest make us want to cheat or jump someone. But they've decided that any physical feeling or attraction is evil. So it's no wonder they think they can't control themselves. If I defined thinking 'nice butt' as not controlling myself then yea - I probably couldn't control myself either. So that's why they need to isolate themselves from others and from all visual stimulation. Because they are humans and humans might find someone visually appealing which for some inexplicable reason is not acceptable.

 

Great post. Bears repeating.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Churchhoney

[3girlsforus]

Mom Max has done a lot of the homeschooling. It's not just Steve. She writes a lot about homeschooling and a surprising amount of it is pretty intelligent and sensible, actually. They're clearly not dumb. Just insane.

I think they have gotten more and more insane over the years. Even though I homeschool, I've never looked at or read their stuff. Sometimes you can tell just by the title is isn't your cup of tea. But I've read about them on homeschool forums - some of which are frequented by pretty conservative people. Many comment about how increasingly extreme the Maxwells have gotten over the years from being conservative but still sensible to these days advocating that children have no contact with people outside of the family, even at church. No school. No youth group. No Sunday School. No friends (for the kids or the wife, not sure about the husband). No sports. Basically only family activities. 

 

Even the most conservative of the responders thought they were over the edge and definitely not Biblical in their beliefs. 

[Churchhoney]

I think they have gotten more and more insane over the years. Even though I homeschool, I've never looked at or read their stuff. Sometimes you can tell just by the title is isn't your cup of tea. But I've read about them on homeschool forums - some of which are frequented by pretty conservative people. Many comment about how increasingly extreme the Maxwells have gotten over the years from being conservative but still sensible to these days advocating that children have no contact with people outside of the family, even at church. No school. No youth group. No Sunday School. No friends (for the kids or the wife, not sure about the husband). No sports. Basically only family activities. 

 

Even the most conservative of the responders thought they were over the edge and definitely not Biblical in their beliefs. 

 

I guess once you give way to a personality disorder like Steve Maxwell's -- which I'm convinced is the basis of their "faith" life, not any actual theological convictions -- you can only get more extreme. What satisfies somebody's insecurities and narcissism at first fails to satisfy it down the line and the control has to get more intense. In the past, Terry has certainly written some stuff about managing homeschool issues that's quite sensible. But you couldn't write sensibly about the increasingly paranoid little world that her headship has created. It's too bad that they're all trapped and warped by his issues.

[Defrauder]

Of course it has negative connotations. Michal chose to save her husband, David, over the objections of her father. And even when her father tried to get rid of David by giving him other wives, Michal eventually found her way back to him. So evil is the woman who thinks for herself and makes choices her father didn't tell her to

OK so 'Michal' has a husband her father doesn't approve of.  Father tries to get rid of husband by giving him other wives.  Michal determines to find her way back to him.  Seems to me any 'negative connotations' would be on the father not on Michal. Michal's like a biblical hero.  But in funless world you can't have a husband your father doesn't approve of.  Damn he's throwing other wives at the guy to get him out of the picture. Good for Michal defying such a maniac. Alright so the Bates have to rename her so she doesn't get any ideas and they have to change one letter for free so they change it to 'Michael'.  Why not Michay, or Michaly, or Mishal, I don't know.  Michai?

[3girlsforus]

OK so 'Michal' has a husband her father doesn't approve of.  Father tries to get rid of husband by giving him other wives.  Michal determines to find her way back to him.  Seems to me any 'negative connotations' would be on the father not on Michal. Michal's like a biblical hero.  But in funless world you can't have a husband your father doesn't approve of.  Damn he's throwing other wives at the guy to get him out of the picture. Good for Michal defying such a maniac. Alright so the Bates have to rename her so she doesn't get any ideas and they have to change one letter for free so they change it to 'Michael'.  Why not Michay, or Michaly, or Mishal, I don't know.  Michai?

 

 

Oh yes - in case I wasn't clear - I was being sarcastic when I said there were negative connotations to the name Michal. It was a complicated situation - David was a political threat to Michal's father, Saul. David ended up with other women for a while etc. But from what I understand, David and Michal loved each other and Saul hated David for a myriad of reasons including his threat to Saul's power. It seems like the perfect parallel to a fundie's worst nightmare. What I don't get is how they named their kid something and didn't know the origin before they chose it. 

[Sew Sumi]

Yup, that question has always puzzled me. Notice that they didn't even try to go the biblical route when naming any of their other daughters. It's interesting that a couple boys got biblical names and a couple more "character/virtue" ones (Warden Springs immediately to mind). Also interesting, that latter trend is really big with the VF crowd. Doug Phillips' litter is, well, littered with those obnoxious type names.

[GeeGolly]

Yup, that question has always puzzled me. Notice that they didn't even try to go the biblical route when naming any of their other daughters. It's interesting that a couple boys got biblical names and a couple more "character/virtue" ones (Warden Springs immediately to mind). Also interesting, that latter trend is really big with the VF crowd. Doug Phillips' litter is, well, littered with those obnoxious type names.

Just checked out the names, some of them are: Jubilee, Justice, Honor, Liberty and Providence.

[louannems]

So it was Vision Forum that named MECHELLE mother of the year?

http://images.christianpost.com/full/66640/reality-tv-stars-jimbob-and-michelle-duggar-join-beall-and-her-husband-former-vision-forum-president-doug-phillips-in-2010.jpg?w=640

I believe Dougie named a son Providence Mather!

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, there's a video of Napoleon Phillips presenting MEchelle with one of her many bogus MOTY awards. I am without my laptop until tomorrow, or I'd post the "Thank You, Michelle" video they made as part of the tribute ceremony. Lourdes Torres, The Tool's abuse victim, stars.

[louannems]

CTBHH: Debi Knows “God’s Plan” »

What’s in a name? Honor, Providence, and Arrow

October 4, 2012 by Libby Anne 116 Comments

I knew three different girls named Mercy as a child, though Bible names were more common in my community. For every Faith or Patience or Grace, there were half a dozen Elijahs and Hannahs and Rebeccas. But there were no Tiffanys or Stephanies or Ryans. Names are very important in families in the orbit of the Quiverfull and Christian Patriarchy movements.

Let me offer an example. Doug Phillips is the president of Vision Forum. His children are named Joshua, Justice, Liberty, Jubilee, Faith Evangeline, Honor, Providence, and Virginia Hope.

Want another example? Nancy Campbell of Above Rubies has grandchildren named Zadok, Sharar, Rashida, Crusoe, Jireh, Arrow, Tiveria, Sahara, Iqara, Saber Truth, Meadow, Bowen, Rocklyn, Noble, and Autumn Rose.

But I have more! Michael and Debi Pearl of No Greater Joy have grandchildren named Joseph Courage, Ryshoni Joy, Hannah Sunshine, Elijah Music, Chaiyah Eve, Alitsia Rin, and Laila Truth.

Let me finish with a final example. Peter and Kelly Bradrick have named the five children they’ve had so far Triumph Perseverance, Knox Defender, Loyal Cromwell, Geneva Constance, and Michael Courage.

One thing that is really fascinating is that you can sometimes tell when a family came under the influence of the Christian Patriarchy and Quiverfull movements by their children’s names – the first few children will have names like Erika or Jake, and the rest will have names like Ruth or Honor.

So what’s going on here, exactly? It wasn’t until I read the following passage in Mintz’s Huck’s Raft: A History of American Childhood that I really pondered this. In this passage Mintz is talking about naming practices among the New England Puritans.

Although some parents bestowed common English names on their children, many first-generation Puritans, who had joined the movement after breaking with their parents, underscored this new beginning by choosing names with religious and moral significance. Some drew names from scripture (such as Zachariah) or their English equivalents (like “Thankful”); others chose phrase names (such as “If-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned”). Roger Class and his wife named their children Experience, Waitstill, Preserved, Hopestill, Wait, Thanks, Desire, Unite, and Supply. These names gave tangible expression to the first generation’s basic values and religion’s importance in their lives.

The author goes on to explain that this practice didn’t survive the first generation.

Parents in the Christian Patriarchy and Quiverfull movements are doing the same thing these first-generation New England Puritan parents were doing. They are “underscoring” their “new beginning” and giving their children names that “give tangible expression” to their “basic values” and to “religion’s importance in their lives.” I find this fascinating.

I remember hearing that some of those involved in the flower child movement of the 1960s and 1970s gave their children names like Vishnu or Willow. And I remember hearing that more than one Stardust and Blossom changed their names upon adulthood rather than have that following them around their entire lives. I wonder if the same will be true for Perseverance Phillips or Loyal Bradrick.

Stay in touch with Love, Joy, Feminism on Facebook

- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/whats-in-a-name-honor-providence-and-arrow.html#sthash.P9ERQg06.dpuf

[BitterApple]

I love the name Evangeline, but I just can't with Honor and Justice.

[P2C2E]

Everything you (didn't) want to know about Michal in the Bible.

https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/all-women-bible/Michal

[Churchhoney]

CTBHH: Debi Knows “God’s Plan” »

What’s in a name? Honor, Providence, and Arrow

October 4, 2012 by Libby Anne 116 Comments

I knew three different girls named Mercy as a child, though Bible names were more common in my community. For every Faith or Patience or Grace, there were half a dozen Elijahs and Hannahs and Rebeccas. But there were no Tiffanys or Stephanies or Ryans. Names are very important in families in the orbit of the Quiverfull and Christian Patriarchy movements.

Let me offer an example. Doug Phillips is the president of Vision Forum. His children are named Joshua, Justice, Liberty, Jubilee, Faith Evangeline, Honor, Providence, and Virginia Hope.

Want another example? Nancy Campbell of Above Rubies has grandchildren named Zadok, Sharar, Rashida, Crusoe, Jireh, Arrow, Tiveria, Sahara, Iqara, Saber Truth, Meadow, Bowen, Rocklyn, Noble, and Autumn Rose.

But I have more! Michael and Debi Pearl of No Greater Joy have grandchildren named Joseph Courage, Ryshoni Joy, Hannah Sunshine, Elijah Music, Chaiyah Eve, Alitsia Rin, and Laila Truth.

Let me finish with a final example. Peter and Kelly Bradrick have named the five children they’ve had so far Triumph Perseverance, Knox Defender, Loyal Cromwell, Geneva Constance, and Michael Courage.

One thing that is really fascinating is that you can sometimes tell when a family came under the influence of the Christian Patriarchy and Quiverfull movements by their children’s names – the first few children will have names like Erika or Jake, and the rest will have names like Ruth or Honor.

So what’s going on here, exactly? It wasn’t until I read the following passage in Mintz’s Huck’s Raft: A History of American Childhood that I really pondered this. In this passage Mintz is talking about naming practices among the New England Puritans.

Although some parents bestowed common English names on their children, many first-generation Puritans, who had joined the movement after breaking with their parents, underscored this new beginning by choosing names with religious and moral significance. Some drew names from scripture (such as Zachariah) or their English equivalents (like “Thankful”); others chose phrase names (such as “If-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned”). Roger Class and his wife named their children Experience, Waitstill, Preserved, Hopestill, Wait, Thanks, Desire, Unite, and Supply. These names gave tangible expression to the first generation’s basic values and religion’s importance in their lives.

The author goes on to explain that this practice didn’t survive the first generation.

Parents in the Christian Patriarchy and Quiverfull movements are doing the same thing these first-generation New England Puritan parents were doing. They are “underscoring” their “new beginning” and giving their children names that “give tangible expression” to their “basic values” and to “religion’s importance in their lives.” I find this fascinating.

I remember hearing that some of those involved in the flower child movement of the 1960s and 1970s gave their children names like Vishnu or Willow. And I remember hearing that more than one Stardust and Blossom changed their names upon adulthood rather than have that following them around their entire lives. I wonder if the same will be true for Perseverance Phillips or Loyal Bradrick.

Stay in touch with Love, Joy, Feminism on Facebook

- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/whats-in-a-name-honor-providence-and-arrow.html#sthash.P9ERQg06.dpuf

 

Well, at least there'll be a few people in Spurgy's future who'll hesitate to laugh at his name.

[RazzleberryPie]

Half those names sound like some sort of comic book superhero or villain. The other half do indeed sound like pilgrims.

We always joke that you can tell when somebody Found the Lord based on their kids' names. From my generation, firstkids are Jennifer and Jason, Ashley and Chris, etc. Next kids are then Joshua, Jacob, Hannah, Anna, Bethany, Rachel, Rebekah, etc. Always a josh and a Bethany.

Now if one parent - usually the mother - was super wild before Finding the Lord, you get the Hepsathusalkiah Israel Jehosaphaht Hallelujahbelle etc names.

[GeeGolly]

Saber Truth - Did they not say this a few times before they wrote it on the birth certificate? Wonder if his nickname is Tiger.

[Defrauder]

Oh yes - in case I wasn't clear - I was being sarcastic when I said there were negative connotations to the name Michal. It was a complicated situation - David was a political threat to Michal's father, Saul. David ended up with other women for a while etc. But from what I understand, David and Michal loved each other and Saul hated David for a myriad of reasons including his threat to Saul's power. It seems like the perfect parallel to a fundie's worst nightmare. What I don't get is how they named their kid something and didn't know the origin before they chose it. 

It's all good 3girls, I know you were being sarcastic, it really is funny though that they picked out a biblical name but didn't know what it was about and had to change it to avoid some fundie nightmare in the making.  Like Michal would marry a guy her father didn't approve of if they didn't add that 'e' in there. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

I guess once you give way to a personality disorder like Steve Maxwell's -- which I'm convinced is the basis of their "faith" life, not any actual theological convictions -- you can only get more extreme. What satisfies somebody's insecurities and narcissism at first fails to satisfy it down the line and the control has to get more intense. In the past, Terry has certainly written some stuff about managing homeschool issues that's quite sensible. But you couldn't write sensibly about the increasingly paranoid little world that her headship has created. It's too bad that they're all trapped and warped by his issues.

Plus you get Super Extra Speshul Jeebus House Points for being More-Exteme-Than Thou

[Abstract]

No, Michal was bad because she treated David with contempt after she saw him dancing in the procession of the ark. She was punished with barrenness, ostensibly for her lack of respect for her husband.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+6&version=NASB

How Gothardites ignore the dancing part of this passage is anyone's guess.

I figure the Bates parents chose the name off a list of women of the Bible without having read the whole Bible.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Abstract

[yogi2014L]

So I was looking at Alyssa bates instagram... ( i follow her, I think she is adorable and seriously dresses so well) and noticed that she tagged the Bates tv show in her IG post about Ally's birthday where she was wearing a very cute and stylish sleeveless dress... Two questions

1. Was Allie's Bday Filmed? and more importantly:

2- do you think she wore a sleeveless dress on the TV show?? God I hope so! Go Alyssa!

[RazzleberryPie]

No, Michal was bad because she treated David with contempt after she saw him dancing in the procession of the ark. She was punished with barrenness, ostensibly for her lack of respect for her husband.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+6&version=NASB

How Gothardites ignore the dancing part of this passage is anyone's guess.

I figure the Bates parents chose the name off a list of women of the Bible without having read the whole Bible.

This - wasn't she the one who said David was undignified and embarrassing - dancing like a slave instead of being all regal like a King?

[Fuzzysox]

Alyssa's party for her baby girl was clean and classy. Allie looks bathed and is dressed neatly. Take notes Jill.

[farmgal4]

So I was looking at Alyssa bates instagram... ( i follow her, I think she is adorable and seriously dresses so well) and noticed that she tagged the Bates tv show in her IG post about Ally's birthday where she was wearing a very cute and stylish sleeveless dress... Two questions

1. Was Allie's Bday Filmed? and more importantly:

2- do you think she wore a sleeveless dress on the TV show?? God I hope so! Go Alyssa!

I'm betting Alyssa even wears a normal (Nike!) bathing suit. She has a pic on IG where she's in a pool with Ally. The pool looked like it was in a resort or something. The girl has class, so I can't imagine her in public wearing one of those God-awful swim outfits like the Duggars wear.

[3girlsforus]

When I first saw the Duggars, I didn't see anything wrong.  It took a little while before the horror of it settled on me.

 

These women are not really stay at home moms.  They work.  It's not in the sense that I work, but they are income producing.  So their bullshit is just that.  Jill writes and sings and drags the kids to perform at church and does make up videos and anything else she can think of.  Anything for a buck.  Sierra does her party planning and cookies, her friend Holly does cookies, Michelle does speaking engagements, or did,   There isn't one who isn't making money.  Even Jessa with her speaking trips.  

 

This is true but their work is done within their community and under the control of their "helpmeet". They speak only about the things they are allowed to speak. Remember the caveat that the information was not intended to teach a man. They plan parties only for other fundies so they don't end up bringing cupcakes to a pool party full of people in bathing suits. Teri Maxwell writes homeschool stuff but they put Steve's name on it too. The women are allowed to work when it brings in money and propagates the cult. They just aren't allowed to have jobs that takes them out of the control of the headship.

[BitterApple]

So I was looking at Alyssa bates instagram... ( i follow her, I think she is adorable and seriously dresses so well) and noticed that she tagged the Bates tv show in her IG post about Ally's birthday where she was wearing a very cute and stylish sleeveless dress... Two questions

1. Was Allie's Bday Filmed? and more importantly:

2- do you think she wore a sleeveless dress on the TV show?? God I hope so! Go Alyssa!

Alyssa is the perfect example of how you can dress modestly, but still be stylish and on trend.

Sadly, people on Instagram give her all kinds of shit. A while back there was a bunch of Bitter Betty's criticizing her for wearing a sleeveless dress to church. Oh, the horror!

[flyingdi]

I think the scariest part of cults is that you don't have to be an ignorant, uneducated dumbass to be involved in one. Cults would never grow as big as some of them are if they only targeted stupid people. Cult groups would not hang out on collegecampuses if they were only looking for the uneducated. The scariest thing is that it appears anyone can fall victim to a cult.

[Sew Sumi]

So I was looking at Alyssa bates instagram... ( i follow her, I think she is adorable and seriously dresses so well) and noticed that she tagged the Bates tv show in her IG post about Ally's birthday where she was wearing a very cute and stylish sleeveless dress... Two questions

1. Was Allie's Bday Filmed? and more importantly:

2- do you think she wore a sleeveless dress on the TV show?? God I hope so! Go Alyssa!

Yes, the party was filmed. There was a camera caught in one of the shots in the party collage.

[Fuzzysox]

Alyssa is the perfect example of how you can dress modestly, but still be stylish and on trend.

Sadly, people on Instagram give her all kinds of shit. A while back there was a bunch of Bitter Betty's criticizing her for wearing a sleeveless dress to church. Oh, the horror!

Alyssa and her sisters should be the ones who can actually speak on the topic of dressing fashionably modest not Jessa. Ever since Jessa got married she has turned into a wrinkled frumpy mess. She used to care before she got married now she just throws on something that was meant to be in the wash and goes about her day. Yuck!

[louannems]

Alyssa and her sisters should be the ones who can actually speak on the topic of dressing fashionably modest not Jessa. Ever since Jessa got married she has turned into a wrinkled frumpy mess. She used to care before she got married now she just throws on something that was meant to be in the wash and goes about her day. Yuck!

The worst thing I've seen her wear is that skin-tight defrauding purple dress. And to actually

LABOR in such a tight, polyester ensemble, I can't even imagine!

Edited April 12, 2016 by louannems

[RazzleberryPie]

Jessa is not modest. Everything may be covered, but in such thin, clingy material that you could see the outline of her breasts and belly button. That's not modest. That's drawing attention to body parts.

Alyssa looks adorable. Never too much makeup, never with too tight clothing, just plain cute and chic.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Jessa is not modest. Everything may be covered, but in such thin, clingy material that you could see the outline of her breasts and belly button. That's not modest. That's drawing attention to body parts.

Alyssa looks adorable. Never too much makeup, never with too tight clothing, just plain cute and chic.

Neither Jessa or Jill were displaying modesty with those clingy tight garments showing everything nature gave them over their baby bumps...tacky..just plain tacky...considering always trumpeting about modesty

[MunichNark]

Alyssa dresses very nicely. You have to give her credit that she continues to post, despite the shit she gets from the Holy Marys.

 

The Bates girls do have class, even the loud obnoxious ones. Duggars take note! You in comparison look like ragamuffins, unkempt, dirty, slovenly.

On account there not being anything decent on telly, last night I spent wayyy too much time reading through the Maxhells blog. They are truly frightening.

 

The minutiae of their incredibly dull boring lives, does it really need to be put on paper that much? Do people really want to know and read this? The parents are both utterly insane. Why are they so against having a bit of fun, and, Heaven forbid, just be lazy for once? Have a lie in! Be a Devil, go on! You don't need to plan your day ahead down to every minute.

 

What will those daughters do when their parents are in their dotage, old or dead? Who's going to pay for them?

[queenanne]

No, Michal was bad because she treated David with contempt after she saw him dancing in the procession of the ark. She was punished with barrenness, ostensibly for her lack of respect for her husband.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+6&version=NASB

How Gothardites ignore the dancing part of this passage is anyone's guess.

I figure the Bates parents chose the name off a list of women of the Bible without having read the whole Bible.

 

I've always thought that was hilarious - I thought the part the fundies objected to, was the part where Michal may or may not, depending upon your point of view/translation, have been an adulteress?  Thus it always seemed very appropriate to me that they didn't bother to actually know the story.

[Churchhoney]

On Voddie Baucham (from The Seewalds)

 

h, Voddie B is worth knowing about when you're observing fundie homeschooling world. He's another who's extremely influential in some horrifying ways. To wit: https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/01/16/the-child-as-viper-how-voddie-bauchams-theology-of-children-promotes-abuse/

'Due to his engaging communication style and rhetorical prowess, he has become one of the most sought-after speakers for Christian homeschool conferences. Over the last decade, Baucham has presented at an increasingly large number of such conferences all over the United States,[x] often keynoting alongside other national homeschool leaders such as HSLDA’s Michael Farris.[xi] He has received national visiblity beyond the Christian homeschooling movement due to his association with the Gospel Coalition and his controversial declaration that Michael Brown, a young black teenager shot multiple times by a white policeman, “reaped what he sowed.”[xii]

'The Child as Viper

'there are many aspects of Voddie Baucham’s worldview that deserve attention and introspection, this paper will focus on one specific aspect of his worldview: the image of the child as viper. Baucham frequently employs the image of the child as viper in his speeches and writings. It first appeared in Baucham’s 2007 sermon on “Child Training” at Hardin Baptist Church, and later appeared in writing in his 2011 book Family Shepherds.

'image of the child as viper is intended to invoke the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity in relation to children. It is meant to transform the way we think about children’s so-called “innocence” or “purity” and consequently transform the way we think about raising and disciplining children. Notably, it is meant as a criticism of modern child development experts and gentle parenting advocates who eschew authoritarian methods of parenting and harsh, punitive forms of corporal punishment. The child as viper is the foundation of Baucham’s defense of spanking.

'This image is also invoked in an attempt by Baucham to separate his ideas about child training from the ideas of people who (allegedly) deny total depravity, most notably Michael and Debi Pearl. In Baucham’s worldview, children are inherently broken and comparable to serial killers in their desire to shed blood. Thus the iconography of the child as viper is not simply intended to be humorous or poetic. It is intended to be concrete and applicable: just as one must restrain and control a viper from following its own, potentially murderous, nature, so too must one restrain and control a child from following their own, potentially murderous, nature.'

And more:

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/06/17/voddie-baucham-prescription-for-spanking-and-the-shy-child/

'And, they desperately need to be spanked and they need to be spanked often, they do. I meet people all the time ya’ know and they say, oh yeah, “There have only been maybe 4 or 5 times I’ve ever had to spank Junior.” “Really?” ‘That’s unfortunate, because unless you raised Jesus II, there were days when Junior needed to be spanked 5 times before breakfast.” If you only spanked your child 5 times, then that means almost every time they disobeyed you, you let it go.

Why do your toddlers throw fits? Because you’ve taught them that’s the way that they can control you. When instead you just need to have an all-day session where you just wear them out and they finally decide “you know what, things get worse when I do that.”

'THE SELFISH SIN OF SHYNESS

'Let me give you an example, a prime example. The so-called shy kid, who doesn’t shake hands at church, okay? Usually what happens is you come up, ya’ know and here I am, I’m the guest and I walk up and I’m saying hi to somebody and they say to their kid “Hey, ya’ know, say Good-morning to Dr. Baucham,” and the kid hides and runs behind the leg and here’s what’s supposed to happen. This is what we have agreed upon, silently in our culture. What’s supposed to happen is that, I’m supposed to look at their child and say, “Hey, that’s okay.” But I can’t do that. Because if I do that, then what has happened is that number one, the child has sinned by not doing what they were told to do, it’s in direct disobedience. Secondly, the parent is in sin for not correcting it, and thirdly, I am in sin because I have just told a child it’s okay to disobey and dishonor their parent in direct violation of scripture. I can’t do that, I won’t do that. I’m gonna stand there until you make ’em do what you said.'

I'm sure Oxford is proud.

[3girlsforus]

Voddie Baucham is creepy. His ideas are disturbing and scary. I think it's hilarious that he exaggerates his education from Oxford because he is actively opposed to college education. 

 

So much of his stuff is so over the edge, but as a parent to a child with clinical anxiety issues, the "sin of shyness" part is so offensive it makes me want to scream. I wonder if he's ever considered that a kid doesn't want to shake his hand because he's vile.

[RazzleberryPie]

Ok this Voddie fool sounds insane. Maybe sounds like some twisted Charles Dickens or Harry Potter villain. Definite control freak, bully and sadist.

Has he ever considered that shy kids run from him bc they're afraid he'll beat them? I detest any 'beat into submission' bullshit.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Voddie Baucham is creepy. His ideas are disturbing and scary. I think it's hilarious that he exaggerates his education from Oxford because he is actively opposed to college education. 

 

So much of his stuff is so over the edge, but as a parent to a child with clinical anxiety issues, the "sin of shyness" part is so offensive it makes me want to scream. I wonder if he's ever considered that a kid doesn't want to shake his hand because he's vile.

I remember as a kid being told not to talk to strangers...but if some family friend or distant relative came calling...all of a sudden this entity was my "auntie" or "uncle"... I was subject to having to kiss these people and being tickled until I'd wet my pants...that's just what was the norm back then.

I remember my own nieces and nephews were skittish about me and Mr. Evenstar because we live 4 hours drive away and they didn't see us often enough. They would hide behind their parents who were trying to coax them out.

I said leave em alone...remember when we had to put up with being tickled until we peed our pants? How messed up was that? Should we send them the same message?

Disobedient my ass! I supposed he'd have sent me packing to the prayer closet for raising vipers...rather than realizing that children should be able to set reasonable boundaries. Another dangerous, creepy narcissist with a philosophical burr up his ass using religion to justify it! It boggles the mind how easily unhinged these guys get over nothing, particularly anyone who dares to question or challenge them.

[louannems]

Alyssa dresses very nicely. You have to give her credit that she continues to post, despite the shit she gets from the Holy Marys.

 

The Bates girls do have class, even the loud obnoxious ones. Duggars take note! You in comparison look like ragamuffins, unkempt, dirty, slovenly.

On account there not being anything decent on telly, last night I spent wayyy too much time reading through the Maxhells blog. They are truly frightening.

 

The minutiae of their incredibly dull boring lives, does it really need to be put on paper that much? Do people really want to know and read this? The parents are both utterly insane. Why are they so against having a bit of fun, and, Heaven forbid, just be lazy for once? Have a lie in! Be a Devil, go on! You don't need to plan your day ahead down to every minute.

 

What will those daughters do when their parents are in their dotage, old or dead? Who's going to pay for them?

Since you read through the blog, did you see the "schedule cake"? They really do schedule every minute of every day.

[Aja]

Children are comparable to serial killers? That guy should be in jail. He's openly advocating seriously harming children, for Christ's sake, no pun intended. Plainly. In clear, precise English. This Jesus Umbrella Of Protection surrounding these people is really just too much.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Aja

[3girlsforus]

Since you read through the blog, did you see the "schedule cake"? They really do schedule every minute of every day.

 

The homeschooling products they sell are all about scheduling every second of the day.  That cake is a replica of the front of their Managers of the Home book.

Edited April 13, 2016 by 3girlsforus