S05.E13: Forget

[kj4ever]

Now, I've been fortunate enough to never be in an abusive relationship, so I won't pretend knowing how abused women would react, but if my husband was violent and unstable to the point where a stranger kissing me on the cheek in front of pretty much everyone we know was enough to set him off, I hope I wouldn't blame that on the man who kissed me on the cheek, but entirely on my asshole husband.

I just think that is a completely different issue, though, because it really has nothing to do with finding the kiss itself creepy or predatorial. She's also a grown woman, who walked away with a little smile instead of telling him to fuck off, or to never do it again, or acting freaked out and terrified. We don't know if she's a victim, yet, but we are already victimizing her. She could have told him to stop, she could have reprimanded him, he's not that scary-looking and they were at a party with people she's known and trusted for at least two years; that would have been the safest moment for her to draw the line, if she felt she needed to. She didn't.

and maybe she just thought it was sweet?

[peach]

And I don't think the food or motorcycle is what got to Daryl.  I think it's the fact that he can get the hell out of dodge and be in the wild every once in awhile, just like Aaron said.  Maybe Aaron was going to be a professional poker player too.

 

Agreed.  After sleeping on it, I realized it was more about discovering a viable way to be part of this group.  Until Aaron made him that offer, he didn't see any way he was really going to fit in, or even want to.  Suddenly, he had a solution, "recruiting" out on his new bike, with ASZ as home base.  The outdoor cat can come home for warm milk and a scratch under the chin once in a while.  I STILL think all of them should be all about as  many guns in as many places as they can work out, just on the general principle of "be prepared."

[BrokenRemote]

I think she has a personality.  She seems sweet, kind, and compassionate.  I realize that isn't the exciting personality of Psychotic Carol (I love psychotic Carol btw..) or bad ass michonne, but there is something to be said about a compassionate person.  

 

People act like Jessie planned all their meetings.  Deanna sent her over with the basket of goodies, and since Rick had shaving cream on his face still and said they were cleaning up she offered to give him a hair cut.  Sound the alarms, there's a femme fatale up in here!  The next time he broke her sculpture, and then at the party her own hubby left her alone with him.

 

I would think that after what he's been through someone reaching out a hand of friendship and showing genuine concern would be extremely attractive.  I don't think "the kiss" (jesus on twitter people are acting like he hiked her skirt up and took her right there!) was meant to be sexual but as a thank you.  If getting one of those means they want to jump your bones, well I've got lots of men out there that want to jump my bones.

 

I do think though that after he got close to her he was all Whoooah.....

 

Some of the stuff I saw on twitter was like--take a deep breath and step back--Rick's not your husband!  I think it's easy to insert ourselves into the story via whatever character we relate to the most, but before social media people kept it to themselves as sort of a subconscious or semi-conscious thing and just let it enhance their enjoyment of a show.  Now that we all know there are at least a couple hundred people that think the same way we do (at any given time, for any given situation), it's easier for us to scream it all out to the world on twitter.

[Pete Martell]

Now, I've been fortunate enough to never be in an abusive relationship, so I won't pretend knowing how abused women would react, but if my husband was violent and unstable to the point where a stranger kissing me on the cheek in front of pretty much everyone we know was enough to set him off, I hope I wouldn't blame that on the man who kissed me on the cheek, but entirely on my asshole husband.

I just think that is a completely different issue, though, because it really has nothing to do with finding the kiss itself creepy or predatorial. She's also a grown woman, who walked away with a little smile instead of telling him to fuck off, or to never do it again, or acting freaked out and terrified. We don't know if she's a victim, yet, but we are already victimizing her. She could have told him to stop, she could have reprimanded him, he's not that scary-looking and they were at a party with people she's known and trusted for at least two years; that would have been the safest moment for her to draw the line, if she felt she needed to. She didn't.

 

If a man in a position of authority knows her husband is possibly abusive, and still chooses to kiss her in a public place (which said husband could easily see as humiliating or emasculating), then I can't help putting some blame on him. I feel like it's deliberately playing with fire, especially since Rick is supposed to be there to keep the peace.

 

It's difficult for me not to see her as a victim because of the heavy emphasis on her husband's shadiness. "Porch dick" and the various shots of him seeming shady or offcenter. 

 

This is another problem I have with the story and the heavy focus solely on Rick's POV - I have a hard time understanding her or any of her reactions in terms beyond what pushes Rick a certain way in a certain moment. If she isn't a victim, and her husband is just a minor-grade d-bag, then Rick's behavior would seem even more questionable to me. If she is a victim, then I wouldn't want her with Rick, because his behavior is not something an abuse victim needs to surround herself with.

[Anela]

If it wasn't for the fact that it's easy to keep kids quiet with fear, most people who prey on kids wouldn't use it. But they do, because it is.

I'm a vegetarian and an animal lover, and I also know it's not real. I would more likely see people protesting over the real dead squirrels they used in the first half of the season. If people didn't rage quit over the real killing of animals, I can hardly see them doing it over a fake horse death.

Jessie came to Rick first at Deanna's behest. She says something to the effect of "I work in the pantry; Deanna sent me over with some stuff for you." So I don't see it as Jessie going all Single White Female on Rick. She might have liked what she saw, but it didn't seem like she threw together a basket and came over just to get her some. Especially because she couldn't have seen him in anything other than his Filthy Grizzly Adams regalia up until that moment.

It seems to me that Jessie being sheltered and clueless would be exactly what would appeal to Rick. Someone who isn't touched by the horror his life has been the last two years, who is healthy in mind and body because she has been sheltered. What's he going to talk about with someone who's been through what he has? They have too much shared horror and guilt. Jessie would be looking really appealing right about now for those reasons, it seems to me.

They used real dead squirrels??? I don't like that. 

 

I hated that they showed another horse attacked and eaten. I wear headphones when I'm watching, it was gone 1am, and I was loudly saying, "NO! Not again!"

 

I have a former feral kitten, turned extremely loving house cat, named Button. He was nudging my tablet out of the way last night, as I tried to type my comments. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by Anela

[AndySmith]

Pete bosses her around a little, even in front of the rest of the town. She doesn't like Pete pulling her close.

the show clearly hinted at Pete being abusive in this episode. The scene at the dinner party where Pete went to go refill their glasses heavily hinted at abusive/drunk jerk.

 

For a couple that has barely been onscreen, we sure do seem to be jumping the gun on their relationship...then again, TWD and subtle don't usually go well together.

 

Not saying that's a bad thing if it helps you live; look what happened at Terminus when they first tried being all humanitarian and charitable

 

But that's my whole point...there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Or rather, this show doesn't seem willing to go that route. You're either in the Terminus 1.0/ASZ extreme, or the Woodbury/Terminus 2.0/Dawn's hopsital extreme.

Edited March 9, 2015 by AndySmith

[Anela]

I noticed Sasha's shocked double-take, when that woman asked her to bring her back a leg. 

[morgankobi]

I noticed Sasha's shocked double-take, when that woman asked her to bring her back a leg. 

My take on that was that Olivia (?) was under the assumption Sasha was going hunting for food, but Sasha's most dangerous game that day was family pictures and walkers. Maybe in Sasha's haze, at first she thought Olivia wanted her to bring back a walker's leg.

Edited March 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[Nashville]

If a man in a position of authority knows her husband is possibly abusive, and still chooses to kiss her in a public place (which said husband could easily see as humiliating or emasculating), then I can't help putting some blame on him. I feel like it's deliberately playing with fire, especially since Rick is supposed to be there to keep the peace.

 

Rick's been "constable" for what - all of one day?

Somehow I don't think anybody is yet daunted by the long shadow cast of his "authority".

[Pete Martell]

I disagree that Jessie's character is only about Rick.  In my opinion, it's clunky for new characters to be introduced without it being through the eyes of "our group", so we meet her through Rick's eyes (maybe because there's an attraction there, sure). But we have seen and learned things about Jessie that are nothing to do with Rick: she likes owls, she loves her kids, she likes babies, things are tense between her and her husband.  Pete bosses her around a little, even in front of the rest of the town. She doesn't like Pete pulling her close.  She's open and friendly, possibly a little too smiley in the face of how things appear in her marriage. She's building a sculpture with her kids--an owl, an animal she likes we know because she has a tattoo of one.   She works in the pantry.  She's naïve--maybe even a little Pollyanna-tending.  She's obviously been sheltered.  She seems to be about putting up a good façade.

 

Some of these things may or may not wind up affecting Rick, some have nothing to do with him whatsoever. but in my opinion they're not about propping him up.  They're about developing the character of Jessie.  Having her like owls and work in the pantry does nothing, in my opinion, to prop up Rick.  Those things show us who she is.  I don't personally want an infodump--I want to meet new characters a little at a time. 

 

I think there are ways to bring in a new character with just a few scenes and make them believable. Most of what you described is something I would have preferred seeing with more people than just Rick. For instance, after Carol threatened her son, if they'd had a scene where he looked scared and Jessie asked him what was wrong, we could have seen her as a mother, and I could have cared more (maybe they did show this and I just missed the scene). They could have this next week, of course, but for me having it right after would have upped the stakes, and shown more of how this woman's life is being thrown around by newcomers. 

 

As it is now - and I realize this could soon shift and she could have terrific scenes with all sorts of people - I feel like it's mostly about how Rick sees her and anything about her is filtered through Rick, just as Lori was filtered solely through Rick and Shane, just as Andrea was filtered through The Governor in her last season. And it's not something I ever wanted to go back to with female characters on this show, especially since the way she's being treated by the press and by Talking Dead suggests she's a major new character, not just someone being eased in.

Rick's been "constable" for what - all of one day?

Somehow I don't think anybody is yet daunted by the long shadow cast of his "authority".

 

Someone walking around in a cop uniform, who arrived looking like he could kill them all in their sleep - I'd be surprised if they weren't daunted by him. He's not exactly Eugene.

[Caelicola]

This is another problem I have with the story and the heavy focus solely on Rick's POV - I have a hard time understanding her or any of her reactions in terms beyond what pushes Rick a certain way in a certain moment. If she isn't a victim, and her husband is just a minor-grade d-bag, then Rick's behavior would seem even more questionable to me. If she is a victim, then I wouldn't want her with Rick, because his behavior is not something an abuse victim needs to surround herself with.

That is totally fair, and I respect that, even though I disagree with some of what you're saying.

I just think it's too soon to tell, we are probably gonna get some of her point of view at some point in the next three episodes, she's only been on screen for about fifteen minutes, and it's hard to give an overview of someone's history and background in that short of a time (I accidentally typed backgroin, which sounds somewhat dirty). They already have a ton of characters to juggle, Maggie, Eugene and Gabriel haven't had even that little screen time; I hope we'll get to see more of her and her motivations.

If she is a victim, I don't know if I would want her around ANY of our group, as they are all some level of victimized and traumatized themselves. Why, oh why couldn't ASZ have a nice therapist on site?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Caelicola

[Nashville]

Someone walking around in a cop uniform, who arrived looking like he could kill them all in their sleep - I'd be surprised if they weren't daunted by him. He's not exactly Eugene.

But he wasn't "Constable Rick" at the party - he was a guy, in civvies, carrying a baby.

[kikismom]

Some of the stuff I saw on twitter was like--take a deep breath and step back--Rick's not your husband!  I think it's easy to insert ourselves into the story via whatever character we relate to the most, but before social media people kept it to themselves as sort of a subconscious or semi-conscious thing and just let it enhance their enjoyment of a show.  Now that we all know there are at least a couple hundred people that think the same way we do (at any given time, for any given situation), it's easier for us to scream it all out to the world on twitter.

 

It's upsetting that so many people don't see non-existent fictional people as characters, but as doppelgangers, 4th dimension avatars or some other form of body sharing. Then anything that does or doesn't happen on the show is defined as about themselves.

It's okay to identify as far as saying a character makes choices like you would make, but when you think your fantasies must come true to validate your own self that's too much investment.

It's not personal. It's entertainment. No one would dare (I hope!) rip out chapters of a novel in a bookstore because the author killed off someone or broke someone's heart. Jeez.

For a couple that has barely been onscreen, we sure do seem to be jumping the gun on their relationship...then again, TWD and subtle don't usually go well together.

 

 

But that's my whole point...there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Or rather, this show doesn't seem willing to go that route. You're either in the Terminus 1.0/ASZ extreme, or the Woodbury/Terminus 2.0/Dawn's hopsital extreme.

I get that :-) That's what my proposed explanation was...that extreme behaviour we see is the behaviour expected from the only people who would have survived or who would want to bother surviving in the ZA.

A democratic, fair, cooperative, rational society is not going to be the strategy of criminals, desperadoes, nutjobs, or anyone who stooped to the lowest of the low just to eat, to breathe, another day.

Your idea of how people should behave is great; but this point in the ZA no one cares about sense or equality and if they do you can't trust them.

It's dog eat dog,  dog eat man, man eat dog, man eat man.

[peach]

I think I'll take the word of the actress actually playing the character how she felt about it.  And not just because that's how I saw it.  lol  I remember times I had to take the writers' and actresses word for it about what was going on in the show, because their writing and acting choices didn't send me the message they thought it did. But it's a TV show.  We're not interpreting reality, here. 

[Soobs]

 Michonne is a bad ass, too and she isn't walking around acting loopy. And I question whether she realizes that something is "off" or is she just annoyed at their naivete. If Alexandria is missing out on some survival skills, why not offer to help train?

 

 

Exactly. They need to share information. Rick & Company tried to set-up a society in the prison and failed, for the most part. I may get slammed for this but I get a sense of arrogance and smugness from Rick and Carol about Alexandria. Yes, Deanna is naive about what life is like out there. However, Rick and Carol were barely surviving. They may know more about the horrors beyond Alexandria's walls but their attitude seems to be "take what we want." Isn't that what others did to them?

 

I totally agree. Yes, the folks in Alexandria seem soft as baby shit but look at how well they all get along and they have resources taken care of which includes chocolate! Chocolate! Lucky or not they have kept old people and children alive and also families intact. Yes, CDB is more physically badass but they couldn't sustain a community and were also dying from lack of food and water. There is a lot to learn from the Alexandria wimps and I hope this let's-take-what-we-need attitude blows up in Rick and Carol's faces.

[morgankobi]

It's dog eat dog,  dog eat man, man eat dog, man eat man.

And there's the title of the Season 5 thread.

[Pete Martell]

But he wasn't "Constable Rick" at the party - he was a guy, in civvies, carrying a baby.

 

To me there isn't a huge difference between that guy and Constable Rick. I think he's still in a position of leadership and authority, and I didn't feel like he really did anything to change how he was. And when he's in that role, and when he knows or suspects something is off with Jessie's husband, then being the way he was with her was (again this is just my opinion) inappropriate. If it had just been a friendly kiss and talk, I would have possibly understood, but he was looking at her (again just my opinion) like he was going to take her away and colonize a new planet. And that type of behavior from him is going to hurt her, which is one of the reasons I was so let down by him doing it.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Pete Martell

[BrokenRemote]

They used real dead squirrels??? I don't like that.

I hated that they showed another horse attacked and eaten. I wear headphones when I'm watching, it was gone 1am, and I was loudly saying, "NO! Not again!"

I have a former feral kitten, turned extremely loving house cat, named Button. He was nudging my tablet out of the way last night, as I tried to type my comments.

My former feral kitten passed on a few days ago at age 16. If that horse had had her name I'd probably still be crying. Button is an awesome name-- I might swipe it for future pet-naming!

Edited 'cause it's 'Button', not 'Buttons'!

Edited March 9, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Caelicola]

It's dog eat dog,  dog eat man, man eat dog, man eat man.

I love this an unreasonable amount.

[BrokenRemote]

If a man in a position of authority knows her husband is possibly abusive, and still chooses to kiss her in a public place (which said husband could easily see as humiliating or emasculating), then I can't help putting some blame on him. I feel like it's deliberately playing with fire, especially since Rick is supposed to be there to keep the peace.

It's difficult for me not to see her as a victim because of the heavy emphasis on her husband's shadiness. "Porch dick" and the various shots of him seeming shady or offcenter.

This is another problem I have with the story and the heavy focus solely on Rick's POV - I have a hard time understanding her or any of her reactions in terms beyond what pushes Rick a certain way in a certain moment. If she isn't a victim, and her husband is just a minor-grade d-bag, then Rick's behavior would seem even more questionable to me. If she is a victim, then I wouldn't want her with Rick, because his behavior is not something an abuse victim needs to surround herself with.

But did Rick know at that point, well, anything about Pete, other than he was a doctor and that he wanted to get the drinks in?

[kikismom]

My former feral kitten passed on a few days ago at age 16. If that horse had had her name I'd probably still be crying. Buttons is an awesome name-- I might swipe it for future pet-naming!

Aw, been wondering what happened, sorry to hear the sad news. She was always happy with you, and she never would have had such a long life if she'd been left stray. Buttons would make a fine name for a new friend.

[AndySmith]

Maybe in Sasha's haze, at first she thought Olivia wanted her to bring back a walker's leg.

 

Or just a bad flashback to Bob...

 

Your idea of how people should behave is great; but this point in the ZA no one cares about sense or equality and if they do you can't trust them.

 

Which to is too bad, because it would be nice to see more shades of grey, instead of everything being so black and white much of the time.

Edited March 9, 2015 by AndySmith

[chlban]

My guess is that someone else will intervene, and Rick will swoop in to comfort Jessie.  I could 100% see Carol taking care of Pete if he's trouble.

 

I am one of those fans who said I don't want characters pairing off, and I don't.  That's not what I watch this show for.  But I don't have a problem with a main character having a little brief something with one of the secondary characters.  (Because two main characters getting together means endless draaaamaaaa foreverandeverandever, or the two of them only getting scenes about their TWUWOVE4EVA!, or someone having to die to split them up.)  Jessie is, in my opinion, shaping up to be a secondary character, in the grand tradition of Beth--likely to be brought to the forefront for a short while due to her brief affiliation with a main character, then cannon fodder when the writers want some tears.   I could be wrong, but that's how my gut tells me this is going to play out.

I agree. I don't see Jessie as a long term character. I could be wrong of course, but my guess is she's on the short list for Zombie chow.

 

Edited to ask, is there a thread for guesses on who the next cast member to, shall we say, "leave the show" will be? Not spoilers, just guesses?

 

Tacky, I know, but just wondering.  

Edited March 9, 2015 by chlban

[peach]

I think Rick was forever changed by what happened at Terminus.  It doesn't even come close to what they suffered from the Governor, because the Gov, though evil, was still someone Rick (and company) could understand or relate to in some way.  Not agree with, certainly, but he was still the kind of evil that we know exists in the world, and did before the ZA. 

 

Dealing with cool, collected cannibals...who were going to eat his CHILDREN...who threw him bound and gagged in front of a trough and consulted a clipboard while slashing people's throats in front of him...that changes a person.  I don't think Rick believes EVERYONE is a smooth talking malicious person, but that ANYONE could be.  And they would all be dead, all of them, EATEN by cannibals, if it hadn't been for cold-blooded Carol.  It surprises me how much negativity is directed at Rick now, when he's struggling to move forward in some creepy, smooth talking new group.  Not that everything Rick is doing is "okay," but I'm not sure what people expect from him.  The fact that he can string together a coherent sentence at this point is a victory.  After Terminus, I'd probably be like Morgan was in Clear.  (I like to pretend I'd be Carol, though)

[Nashville]

To me there isn't a huge difference between that guy and Constable Rick. I think he's still in a position of leadership and authority, and I didn't feel like he really did anything to change how he was. And when he's in that role, and when he knows or suspects something is off with Jessie's husband, then being the way he was with her was (again this is just my opinion) inappropriate. If it had just been a friendly kiss and talk, I would have possibly understood, but he was looking at her (again just my opinion) like he was going to take her away and colonize a new planet. And that type of behavior from him is going to hurt her, which is one of the reasons I was so let down by him doing it.

We shall have to agree to disagree, then. MY view was that in THAT context (the party), he was not an Authority Figure; he was the New Dad in the Neighborhood, juggling the baby and trying to figure out who he should talk to. Jessie was the closest thing to a familiar face, she knew it, and she set about trying to put him more at ease - introducing Rick to her husband, chatting casually, etc. In that social situation, i saw HER as the " authority figure". :)

[MrWhyt]

That he even considered shooting her husband solely because he saw them walking down the street together rings huge alarm bells for me

We don't know that he did consider it. His hand moved on his pistol, he didn't draw it, we didn't get an internal monologue detailing his thought process.

[BrokenRemote]

My take on that was that Olivia (?) was under the assumption Sasha was going hunting for food, but Sasha's most dangerous game that day was family pictures and walkers. Maybe in Sasha's haze, at first she thought Olivia wanted her to bring back a walker's leg.

TAINTED MEAT!!!

(Thanks for the good thoughts, kikismom.)

[chlban]

My former feral kitten passed on a few days ago at age 16. If that horse had had her name I'd probably still be crying. Button is an awesome name-- I might swipe it for future pet-naming!

Edited 'cause it's 'Button', not 'Buttons'!

So sorry to hear that. All of my cats are former strays, and I had a former feral that made it 15 years, and I still miss him.   Buttons is a great name, I can't believe I haven't snagged that one yet

[Persnickety1]

That was the most awkward hour of television I've ever seen. Everything everyone said and did made me uncomfortable.

 

What happened to Buttons was heartbreaking. I lost one of my horses almost a year ago in a very traumatic and unexpected way so when he was on the ground with walkers all around him but was still trying to get up.....ugh. That sucked.

 

But, I know this is a TV show so I'll say that horse could really act. Very well trained.

 

Evil or not, Alexandria is where I would need to be. Cocktail parties, chocolate, book clubs, showers. My kind of place. I would go evil for it. I'd probably go cannibal for it.

 

Save a seat for me, because I'm right there with you.

 

I'd want to live out my final days (and in the ZA any day can be your final day) with total creature comfort.

 

I was "in" as soon as I saw the French press coffee pot a couple of episodes ago.

 

Hell, now there's cookies and chocolate and liquor?

 

Yeah, they'd have to BLAST my ass outta there.

------------------------------------------------------

On another note, Daryl as a scouter?  

 

Okay, Aaron looked like he stepped right off the cover of J. Crew, all clean and well-groomed and well-spoken and disarmingly charming.

 

Easy to buy the community Aaron was selling.  

 

Daryl?  Not so much.

 

I personally would have real issues believing a grimy-looking dude like Daryl had the hook up to a place with fresh running water and hot showers.  Seriously.

 

I'd run, thinking Daryl was wanting to grab me caveman style and take me back to his band of biker brothers for their enjoyment.

 

I don't find Daryl to be a credible advertisement for an upper crust, educated, civilized community of people who actually, you know, shower and all.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And now to get to a real nitpick.

 

Buttons had a freshly clipped bridle path.

 

Quite a feat for a horse that has been supposedly roaming wild and free dodging zombies for, what, a year or so now?

 

Maybe Jessie chased him down and used her stylist's clippers on him?

 

Anyway, I hate seeing little details like that.  Total ruins the scene for me.  

Edited March 9, 2015 by Persnickety1

[peach]

I am way too tired to go back and pick out multiquotes, so I just want to say that I am loving your posts, @kikismom!

[maystone]

I think that the letter A stamp is important to this episode, but my take on it is different form anything I've read so far. I don't believe that there is anything nefarious behind the child (was that Sam?) wanting to stamp Rick's hand. Kids and stamps, eh; most I know will stamp anything that won't fight back. The impression that I got was that he made that stamp at school or craft hour at home or some such. I think the letter A just stands for the first letter of the alphabet or possibly Alexandria - his home town.

 

To Rick, though, that A is Terminus and Gareth. It's the trailer the CDB were held in, and it's the taunt/threat that Gareth painted on the church when his cannibal crew dropped off poor, half-eaten Bob. It's the massacre inside the church when Rick showed how he really, really keeps his promise. You think Sasha had PTSD in this episode? I think that stamp set Rick not just on edge but pushed him over it. I won't be able to rewatch the episode until they show it again next Sunday, but my gut is telling me that Rick's inner crazy really started twitching at that point. You could see something … shift in his face when he looked at his hand after it was stamped. Or at least I could. I think it's why he let himself get a little drunk, and why he kissed Jessie on the cheek. I won't pretend to know what he's thinking; I just feel that he started skating faster toward crazy after that moment. It is out of character for Rick to get that intimate with someone he just met. (Intimate in the sense of personal space and touching.) It is out of character for Rick to do something as aggressive as going for his gun - and not his authorized constable weapon, either - and ostensibly consider shooting an unarmed and innocent man in the back. But you know what happened right before that? Jessie held up her hand with the A stamp still on it and laughed a greeting at Rick. And he held up his hand with the A stamp on it and grinned back. And then he tracked down that walker on the other side of the fence and … I don't know, y'all. Rick's head is a dark and scary place right now.

Edited March 9, 2015 by maystone

[Pete Martell]

We don't know that he did consider it. His hand moved on his pistol, he didn't draw it, we didn't get an internal monologue detailing his thought process.

 

I guess the way I saw it was they wouldn't have shown us him moving for the pistol if he hadn't seriously considered it. And that frightens me, because Rick takes life and death so seriously. If he is now close enough to the edge that he even got as far as he did, then I'm not sure what he's becoming.

[kikismom]

Just want to say first that I'm sorry to all whose posts I cannot like yet because it will take me about a week to refill the posts I'm allowed to make in a 24 hour period. So my thumb has been neutralized for now.

 

Also, I consider that Michonne not being part of the triumvirate may be connected to that short conversation by the car?

 

Michonne and Maggie had said they were going and Rick turned and twisted his head and shook his head and did a lot of body language that he was not on board but then said they would go.

Then Michonne comes up outside the car and asks if when he said they would go if it was real.

He affirmed this, and now he may be thinking Yeah, can't really say do you want to be in on this plan to steal back our guns and spy on these people and be ready to make our move?

It isn't just that it would be possibly screwing things up for people who really want to stay in a camp. It could also be about So you lied? So you said we'd come in and it was for this? If it turns out not to be something unnecessary, and the trio abort the plan, there is no reason to mess with their friends heads and have fractures that could last forever.

[peach]

 

------------------------------------------------------

On another note, Daryl as a scouter?  

 

Okay, Aaron looked like he stepped right off the cover of J. Crew, all clean and well-groomed and well-spoken and disarmingly charming.

 

Daryl?  Not so much.

 

I personally would have real issues believing a grimy-looking dude like Daryl had the hook up to a place with fresh running water and hot showers.  Seriously.

 

I'd run, thinking Daryl was wanting to grab me caveman style and take me back to his band of biker brothers for their enjoyment.

 

I don't think Daryl is an advertisement for an upper crust, educated, civilized community of people who actually, you know, shower and all.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Aaron and Eric worked as a team, and only Aaron made the initial approach.  I'm pretty sure he's going to stick to that plan, lol.  Because, yeah, banjo music would instantly play in your head if Daryl Dixon appeared and said, "Come with me if you want to live."  Aaron said he wants Daryl to help him judge who is good or bad and worth bringing in.  And Daryl is probably a lot better backup if you're kidnapped and force fed applesauce.

[MrWhyt]

I guess the way I saw it was they wouldn't have shown us him moving for the pistol if he hadn't seriously considered it. 

The important part here IMO is that the pistol in question is NOT the one openly carried on his hip, it is the stolen one tucked into his waistband. The message could simply be "here's Rick, outwardly committed to the community but secretly preparing to move against it"

[peach]

I guess the way I saw it was they wouldn't have shown us him moving for the pistol if he hadn't seriously considered it. And that frightens me, because Rick takes life and death so seriously. If he is now close enough to the edge that he even got as far as he did, then I'm not sure what he's becoming.

 

Everything about that was frustratingly ambiguous. 

 

My personal interpretation is that he's running scenarios in his head, like, as an exercise.  Playing a little game of "what if?" in his head.  What if I had to take this guy out?  I could do it.  I'd do XYZ.  Not that he necessarily WANTED to, but what if he had to?  I imagine a guy like Rick going over everything that happened with Terminus, and thinking, I should have said this, done that, planned for such and such.  Thinking out ways he could have not ended up the way they did.  His reaction to driving to ASZ was to try to second guess all the ambush scenarios. 

 

I say all this because this is what my kids and do, NONSTOP, watching this damn show, or other shows like it.   We shout at the characters so they will hide guns in the correct places or keep someone on the outside as a contingency, etc.  (They never listen, dammit.)  We will actually pause the show and discuss what we would do instead. And we play the game out and about.  What's your zombie plan?   What are your weapons of opportunity in this condo?  What's your escape plan?  What if you had to survive in Six Flags?  lol 

 

So, I'm going with Rick being like Matt Damon in The Bourne Identity, when he says he automatically takes stock of all his sight lines, and exits, and stuff like that.  He's just imagining what he could do if he had to, to stay sharp.  I'm not ready to believe Rick just wants to kill people to get to a woman.  I guess next week I'll find out.

 

ETA that his going up to wall and sensing where that zombie was on the other side, was part of it.  Remain sharp.  Be the ball.  lol  I also get that it was a visual metaphor, etc.  But I think if he's crazy, it's crazy about feeling like he can never, ever, ever, ever get caught again like he did in Terminus.  Like, ever.

Edited March 9, 2015 by peach

[bosawks]

Not to beat a dead horse.

I think you mean, "Not to beat a dead Buttons."......

[Anela]

My former feral kitten passed on a few days ago at age 16. If that horse had had her name I'd probably still be crying. Button is an awesome name-- I might swipe it for future pet-naming!

Edited 'cause it's 'Button', not 'Buttons'!

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's so hard, losing them, but you definitely gave her a better life. <3

Mine are all strays/ferals, too. Three siblings, one that dad brought home, and one that my cat George brought home last Summer. 

Re: the "A". It took me back to Terminus, and the train carriage they were in. 

 

I like Aaron and Eric. If the Unfair Wolves are close by, I hope they don't kill them. 

[SometimesBites]

How many walkers were there?

Because anyone who has ever tried to calm a spooked horse knows they can defend themselves really well- those hooves are deadly.

I don't think five people could pull down a horse in that manner, and that's with well fed, fully functional musculature.

They might could if they were pulling it down by taking large bites out of it.

[Penman61]

I eagerly await the day when "gay male couple" does not automatically equal "hairdressers, makeovers, and threeways."

[SometimesBites]

I'm happy Daryl got another bike, I've missed that.

Me too. Aaron's the Daryl-Whisperer. Am I the only one who had just a SECOND there, when Aaron was taking Daryl into the garage, that I was about to see something kinky? A little BDSM room, perhaps. I was relieved when it was motorcycle haven. :)

Edited March 9, 2015 by SometimesBites

[maplebrew]

The episode in a handful of lines:

 

Maggie (chipper): I'm a political intern.

Michonne: The katana is mantle piece decoration. That's right. Decoration. 

Abe: Heeeeey baaaaby. I'm buzzzzed.

Rick: That's the first clean cheek I've kissed in two years.

Aaron/Eric: Check out the new rough trade! Yep, he wiped his mouth on a sleeve. 

Daryl: They feed me spaghetti. I trust them.

Buttons: One of Rick's people found me. I'm dead for sure. 

Assorted ASZ people: Applesauce...Pasta maker...Book Club...Chocolate...Drink up...Come to the party or else...

Sam: Scary lady said I'd be eating cookies in the forest. No, wait...it was something like that. 

Sasha: Clock tower (twitch); must go to clock tower (twitch).

Deanna's son at party (of Sasha): Check out the new rough trade! Yep, she lost her s - at the party.

Rick: Pete - I'll shoot him in the back later.

 

And, in a few episodes:

 

Deanna: "Rick, you and your people are like a plague!"

[SometimesBites]

You don't need a machine to make pasta. Even if you get one, you still need to go out and get the ingredients. It just sounds so shallow and ignorant to tell people who risk their lives on the outside "oh, if you can find a pasta machine in between risking your life and stuff, could you grab it for me while I sit behind the safe walls? Thanks!!!" Same goes for Barrista woman and her prosciutto. Go shoot your own damn hog you coward.

Oh, a great big pasta bowl of THIS, thanks. If you have the ingredients for pasta, you should probably use them to make something far less time-consuming than pasta. Speaking as one who has made lots of homemade noodles, by hand and by machine. Pancakes, biscuits, or flatbread would be light-years quicker. Now, if one is very attached to pasta and there aren't enough cans of 'sketti rings to satisfy, I guess that's another kettle of fish. ;)

[walnutqueen]

My former feral kitten passed on a few days ago at age 16. If that horse had had her name I'd probably still be crying. Button is an awesome name-- I might swipe it for future pet-naming!

Edited 'cause it's 'Button', not 'Buttons'!

 

I am so very sorry for your loss, BrokenRemote.

 

It is heartening to hear that so many of my fellow TWD fans are also feral cat lovers.  :-)

 

I'm not comfortable with these ASZ people yet.  I have trust issues.  But I'd like to meet the dog owners.

[Persnickety1]

A is for Alexandrians, anvils, and Scarlett A...anything else?

 

Anarchy?  

[SometimesBites]

I already posted this at another venue I frequent, sorry if it's repetitive; but I'm surprised at the number of variations on this sentiment I saw here; I had the same thought as many others - that Carol taking the chocolate would give her perfect cover if she got busted. Then when she proceeded to terrorize that child I was actually scared for him.  At first I was baffled but then soon realized she probably took the right approach- lie to that kid and bribe him with cookies, and eventually he'd talk to someone - an older brother or a friend, if not his mom.  But the way she fuh-reaked him right out he'll probably never speak again.  I didn't see that kid as bratty or anything else - just a normal kid trying to score a cookie who walked in on the wrong middle-aged woman and is now scarred for life. Wonder if there's a good child psychologist in Alexandria?

Agreed--I think that it was another variation of her knifey-knifey storytime at the prison. You gotta do what you gotta do. The stakes are too high to take a chance that Sam will keep his big yap shut. Fortunately for him, she didn't choose to knife him in the ear and burn his corpse.

Edited March 9, 2015 by SometimesBites

[Morrigan2575]

For a couple that has barely been onscreen, we sure do seem to be jumping the gun on their relationship...then again, TWD and subtle don't usually go well together.

 

 

But that's my whole point...there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Or rather, this show doesn't seem willing to go that route. You're either in the Terminus 1.0/ASZ extreme, or the Woodbury/Terminus 2.0/Dawn's hopsital extreme.

I don't think it's jumping the gun at all. There was a reason for that scene, add in the oddity of last weeks scene and there's a definite hint of drunk/abusive guy with Pete.

[TexasChic]

Was no one else reminded of the Friends' episode where Rachel accidentally kissed the man on the cheek who was interviewing her for a job? The guy was leaning in to get something off the desk, and she thought he was going to kiss her on the cheek, so she kissed his. She knew it was stupid as soon as she did it, but she was nervous and acted on impulse. I saw Rick's kiss as the same thing. Jessie leaned in to hand him Judith, and with everyone doing all the frou-frou, apocalypse-smapacolypse awkward party talk and what not, I wouldn't find it hard to believe he made a nervous, social faux pas. That was my interpretation anyway. And the later part I only took as him checking to make sure his gun was still there (and still hidden) as the guy he doesn't exactly trust was walking by.

Edited March 10, 2015 by TexasChic

[xls]

Save a seat for me, because I'm right there with you.

 

I'd want to live out my final days (and in the ZA any day can be your final day) with total creature comfort.

 

I was "in" as soon as I saw the French press coffee pot a couple of episodes ago.

 

Hell, now there's cookies and chocolate and liquor?

 

Yeah, they'd have to BLAST my ass outta there.

------------------------------------------------------

On another note, Daryl as a scouter?  

 

Okay, Aaron looked like he stepped right off the cover of J. Crew, all clean and well-groomed and well-spoken and disarmingly charming.

 

Easy to buy the community Aaron was selling.  

 

Daryl?  Not so much.

 

I personally would have real issues believing a grimy-looking dude like Daryl had the hook up to a place with fresh running water and hot showers.  Seriously.

 

I'd run, thinking Daryl was wanting to grab me caveman style and take me back to his band of biker brothers for their enjoyment.

 

I don't find Daryl to be a credible advertisement for an upper crust, educated, civilized community of people who actually, you know, shower and all.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

IMHO he should be out finding more chocolate, instead of recruiting.

[meep.meep]

So sorry to hear that. All of my cats are former strays, and I had a former feral that made it 15 years, and I still miss him.   Buttons is a great name, I can't believe I haven't snagged that one yet

 

Buttons is a great cat name, it is a truly strange horse name.

 

Fellow feral cat tamer here.  The one in my picture lived to 13.  We took in my mom's when she died away, and that one made it to 19.  She was a bit bitey, though.