S06.E10: The Rise And Fall Of Sue Sylvester

[Tara Ariano]

After Dalton Academy burns down, the Warblers are singing a new tune as they consider teaming with New Directions, while Rachel pulls out all stops to convince Carmen Tibideaux to allow her to return to NYADA.

[Agent Dark]

Is Santana in this episode?  Please say no, so I don't have to watch it.

[MizStaken]

Agent, I don't think she's back until the finale.

[phoenixrising]

She's not. I'm about halfway through, and so far, I'm just really bored.

[MizStaken]

If I wanted to watch the Jane Lynch show I could have paid 80 bucks and seen her here in Austin tonight.

[camussie]

That was dreadfully boring. Except for that very short Rachel scene outside of Carmen's office the first 35 minutes was all about Sue and worse yet a lot of it was spent with a wooden Geraldo recapping stuff we had seen. The only thing that I chuckled at was the suprise cameo by Joe saying Sue cut off his dreds.

Speaking of Rachel I was glad she took the initiative to go talk to Carmen. I just wish we knew what prompted her to make that decision. And of course when it looks like NYADA might not be an option up pops the role.

Also I thought Will was just helping Kurt and Rachel out and then this episode started with him being the full time coach. It is embarrassing how little TPTB care this season.

Good lord Sam was dumb in that first scene but I agreed with him about Rachel going back to college. She said it herself she just wants to go back to the life she had. Well the life she had was one where she was not mature enough to handle a role on Broadway. Despite the fact she went hat in hand to NYADA her overall entitled attitude says to me she will keep repeating those mistakes. Clawed her way back. Hardly.

And Kurt? You all have had to fight for everything? Hardly. Between multiple record contracts, vogue internships, Rachel's wish fulfillment life, rich patrons, bus ads, most of you all have lived charmed lives. You know who has had to fight some to make something of himself? Puck

Finally are rachel and Sam still dating? What was the point of erasing Finn and Sam\Mercedes when samchel act like they are just buddies

Edited March 7, 2015 by camussie

[TiredMe]

Is Ryan Murphy for real? I mean I just can't with this show. Carol Burnett was a highlight but not much else. It was just embarrassing. Did Will have to stick his tongue out during His 80s rocker song?

Side note- had front row seats for the Def Leppard " Pour some sugar on me" tour where Europe opened. Awesome show. Lol

Edited March 7, 2015 by TiredMe

[SevenStars]

Glee used to be the Blaine and Rachel show but this season, it has become the Rachel and Sue show with Sue leading the way, while Rachel get's whatever is left over.  I seriously can't believe what is happening this season. I didn't expect greatness from Glee this last season but I at least expected them to make an effort at giving us some good episodes. 

[tom87]

This was a check list of things I do not want in a episode.

 

Screaming Becky Jackson

Sue's vendatta

Sue singing

Sue being a cartoon

Unnecessary guest stars

Guest stars singing unnecessary songs

VA guy getting yet another solo

Rachel being dumb and not learning her lesson

Setting up a guy to teach the girl what is best for her.

 

I cringed with embarrassment at Sue and Will singing Final count down in horrible big hair and costumes.

 

Really is a contender for worse episode EVER.

Edited March 7, 2015 by tom87

[Casual Viewing]

Well they sort of redeemed Becky. (In that she finally stopped being Sue's apprentice and turned Sue in.) In Becky's last scene she was pleasant and the most mature we've seen her. But the earlier screaming had me hit the mute.

The Final Countdown had me thinking of other parts on Broadway that Matt could do like Hedwig, Rock of Ages. FC itself was painful.

"Rise"actually worked well in the episode. Aside from that, what a waste of time that episode was. Too much Sue!!!

Eep, Sam as the voice of reason? See this is the Sam (season 2 Sam) that I liked. Rachel will keep making the same mistakes if she doesn't address the reasons she made them to begin with. But I don't want Sam or Jesse to be involved in her decision. I want Rachel to do a self analysis and make her own decisions!

I love Carol Burnett, that is all.

Eta some items to clarify.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Casual Viewing

[MizStaken]

Is it bad that I think Darren's song was the best part of this episode? Seriously, why do the writers have Will always being one of Sue's supporters. He, above anyone, has the most to gain from her leaving.

And who is the idiot leader of vocal adrenalin blowing to get so much vocal time on the show? Another pet of RM? Hell, at this point, hasn't he had more solos than Lea?

I did get a chuckle out of sue's comment about Fox News being known for their fair and true reporting.

Also, "she bit me on the lip on her way out". Surprised that got thru.

[fakeempress]

It pains me to say it, but for all the Sue overkill (true, her episode),I thought Jane Lynch wasn't funny, I was really bored even when Sue was more animated.

 

Agree, totally superfluous song for Sue and her mom.

 

The sound for Rise was pretty muffled on and off on my Panasonic plasma and B&O sound system, and the arrangement was off somehow, idk if someone else had this issue.

 

Don't have words about Rachel yet. 

 

The Final Countdown had me thinking of other parts on Broadway that Matt could do like Hedwig, Rock of Ages.

I was thinking about the same!

Edited March 7, 2015 by fakeempress

[camussie]

I thought Rise was good too. IMO the best serious original song to be on the show

[Myrna123]

Apropos of nothing, has a television viewer ever sued a television show for inflicting cruel and unusual punishment? How about for gross incompetence?

Darren Criss sounded like Blaine's 1,323rd character transformation will be as a Victorian schoolmarm. "Thank you so much, Mr. Schuester for your generosity. It is in times like these that we can find comfort in the kindness of our friends."

[Hana Chan]

I'm trying to find some kind of redeemable value in what I just sat through and the only thing I can say is that Jane can be handed a script that's the equivalent of a trash bag filled with rotten fish heads and she'll still give it her best. Good for her. As much as I hated her storyline and how it took up nearly the entire episode, she's a great actor to watch.

 

Rachel is so past the point of me giving the slightest shit about what becomes of her because no matter how stupid she is, she'll always land on her feet. No, you didn't claw your way back, Rachel. You were carried on the backs of other characters that deserve success a lot more than you do because they actually appreciate the chances they get and don't treat it as their due. Quit a show and break her contract? No problem, she'll get cast after her very first audition less than a year later without even having to do a call back. Quit your highly competitive school and insult the dean on your way out the door? Gets readmitted just by asking. There's nothing compelling or interesting about her storyline and with her behavior, she's proving that despite being "humbled" that she hasn't learned a goddam thing. This is supposed to be the main protagonist of the show and they've made it impossible for me to root for her.

 

Kurt had nothing to do this episode since his role as chief Rachel cheerleader has been usurped by Mercedes (who was there for no reason that I can see), Blaine and Sam. I'm actually glad to see Kurt (and by extension Chris) not at the center of this mess - at least he'll emerge unscathed.

 

The Warblers are obnoxious brats and I would have loved five minutes devoted to the obvious displeasure Jane felt at having to accept he choir that rejected her into her group. But instead we got the Sue show (which wasn't much of a improvement from the Rachel show).

 

Darren's song was a mess and I hit the mute button less than halfway through. The only song that I enjoyed was the Trolley Song (which was pointless but fun) and Final Countdown (which was cracktastic fun) The rest... I was focused on folding laundry.

 

This is what happens when a show just stops giving a shit and doesn't even put in a halfhearted effort to hide the fact that they don't give a shit.

[memememe76]

The Warbler/Jane stuff was actually good stuff--it just makes me like the New Kids even more. The emphasis on Sue is driving me batty. 

[MizStaken]

Also disappointed that we didn't get to see Rachel's conversation with Carmen. Why Carmen would even give her two minutes of her time is beyond me, and then invite the privileged brat back into fold??? Guess Blaine getting back in will be a cakewalk.

[shoregirl]

Rise was like a super cheesy Olympic theme song or something.

I don't ever need to see Will stick out his tongue ever.

final countdown was terrible, save for the looks of horror on all the kids faces especially Rachel's and kurts.

Vocal Adrenaline Guy is awful why is he getting all these solos. Jesse was way better than him and didn't sing this much.

[ExplainItAgain]

A definite contender for worst episode ever. I had enough Geraldo on Celebrity Apprentice.

 

Oh, hi Joe.

[phoenixrising]

Becky got redeemed? After her screaming, I muted when she came on.

I'm actually team Rachel go back to Broadway. I'm not sure how NYADA will actually make her more mature. Although I'm really team learn-from-your-mistakes, first and foremost, and I don't think she's even done that. We could've spent time on that instead of Sue. 

I was outraged when Sue said Santana could be a high class prostitute. Where the fuck did that come from, when Sue is praising Brittany and Quinn? More points added to Glee's racist count.

Add more to Glee's sexist count for having 3 girls in the entire club.

Honestly, I can't say I enjoyed a single moment. At least in the hurt locker (which I found really distasteful) I was amused by VA hating Will.

Edited March 7, 2015 by phoenixrising

[Hana Chan]

I can almost imagine that the writers are in a competition to see who can drive away the most viewers because each episode just gets progressively worse. If you told me that they were deliberately setting fire to everything around them and then salting the ground so that nothing ever grows there again, I'd believe you.

[camussie]

I'm quite tired of all of these people patting themselves on the back for overcoming so much adversity with Will then chiming in with how proud he is of them for doing so.

Edited March 7, 2015 by camussie

[mercfan3]

I actually always enjoy Sue, so I liked this episode. (Granted, she's got the same problem as every other character and they never move forward. It's character growth..character regression..except for Blaine and Sam who are just props.)  Glee is ridiculous. This episode fit in. I liked the scene of the glee kids all talking about what Sue had done to them. Kurt in particular was hilarious in that scene. (Actually, it's a little bit of a shame that they didn't go the route of Kurt and Blaine being Sassy BFFs, like Quinn and Santana should have been.. They are usually hilarious together when they are playing off of each other in that role where they are pissed off at someone else.) 

 

I thought "Rise" was a really good song in context. I've always said Darren's writing is heavily influenced by Disney and Broadway, even if it's pop. And that song sounded like something you'd hear in disney. But it fit the moment on the show, and glee in general. The rest of the songs were meh. 

 

Rachel is hard to root for. She wasn't early on. But now..now she's whinny and entitled AND she gets everything she wants. Team Sam on this. Although it would be nice if she could make that decision on her own instead of being talked into it by a man. 

 

Still not sure why they wasted last week's episode on filler. Also..nice of them to use the same plot as last season. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by mercfan3

[CinAZ]

Oh. Holy. Crap.

That was truly horrible. I missed the last few weeks but didn't have anything going on tonight, and flipped the TV over to fox. Wow.

I thought that maybe the last few episodes would be saved for wrapping up story lines of some of the original glee members.

Nope.

[Craphole Island]

Ugh, so much Sue. Like literally it felt like she was the only cast member in the episode for the entire first half.

 

I liked Sam as the voice of reason. And I actually liked Darren's song at the end.

 

Also, I enjoyed Jane's resentment towards the Warblers.

 

Fast-forwarded through the VA song because STFU

Edited March 7, 2015 by Craphole Island

[theschnauzers]

I can't say that this was the worse episode of the series, but it does go down as one of the strangest. Finneas O'Connell did give an interview that came out this week where he mentioned that the cast was only given the first day's shoot the night before, and it was at that point that Darren realized he had the perfect song for the episode. I do not know who you can :blame," but I suspect part of this was trying to make sure all of the different guest appearances were lined up, and it is possible large portions of it were done beforehand on an alternate shooting schedule in bits and pieces. That may be why so much of it involved Geraldo (and to be honest, I don't watch any reporting he does and haven't in decades, literally)

The Trolley Song may be just about the oldest song Glee has ever covered, and Darren's song did work well; it's unfortunate that the last seven minutes were the best part of the episode. I was surprised that Whoopi wasn't available for even one day of filming, since IIRC The Talk is based in L.A., not NYC. The good news is that by the nature of the remaining episodes, it won't focus on Sue. This season has definitely overdone the Sue Sylvester storyline, although the individual bits in this episode in isolation had some real gems. As a whole it was too much Sue.

Sam as the voice of reason? Sure, why not. His character has always been written as similar to FInn, and Finn would have just about said the same thing.

And the costume solution for New Directions and the Warblers actually did make sense, and reminded me of what my high school did years ago, not as a "show choir" although my high school was putting on a Broadway musical every year, and it did fit in with what New Directions has worn in competitions in the past "years." So that worked. Let's see if we even see those in the episode next week.

Edited March 7, 2015 by theschnauzers

[Starchild]

I have lost all respect for Carmen Thibideaux.

[Sara2009]

I kind of enjoyed the crackiness of " Final Countdown." Plus, Matt's vocals were great.

[phoenixrising]

I have lost all respect for Carmen Thibideaux.

 

How many chances has Carmen given Rachel at this point? Too many. 

[camussie]

The View, which is the show Whoopi is on, is filmed in NYC. You know what would be the best outcome for Rachel is if she told both Jessie and Sam next week she appreciates that they care but it's is a decision she has to make on her own. Then she looks deep inside herself to see if she has the maturity to take in Broadway again and if she decides she doesn't school it is. Otherwise take the role. Either way she needs to he a big girl and decide on her own.

Unfortunately rachel has gotten to the point where she can't drop a load without someone holding her hand through the challenge of it.

Edited March 7, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

 

. I was surprised that Whoopi wasn't available for even one day of filming, since IIRC The Talk is based in L.A., not NYC.

 

Whoopie is on the View and it is based in NYC.

 

I was more surprised the crack FOX PR team had her as being a guest star.  I doubt she was cut so they messed up probably when they saw the description that Rachel was talking to her.

The View, which is the show Whoopi is on, is filmed in NYC. You know what would be the best outcome for Rachel is if she told both Jessie and Sam next week she appreciates that they care but it's is a decision she has to make on her own. Then she looks deep inside herself to see if she has the maturity to take in Broadway again and if she decides she doesn't school it is. Otherwise take the role. Either way she needs to he a big girl and decide on her own.

Well ultimately it will be her choice but not before a lot of  wasted time of others telling her what she should do. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by tom87

[Casual Viewing]

Vocal Adrenaline Guy is awful why is he getting all these solos. Jesse was way better than him and didn't sing this much.

There is nothing interesting about VA this year. Not one single thing. The only reason I hate them this year is because their singing and performances are boring and they are depriving more worthy singers in the show from singing. If by the end of Glee we don't get to hear Groff sing at least a duet I will be even angrier.

Season 6 of Glee aka "How to Waste Time on Unimportant Storylines and Characters No One Cares About"

Edited March 7, 2015 by Casual Viewing

[camussie]

I think next week will have Jesse, Sam, and Kurt singing to Rachel while they each try to persuade her to their POV.

[Craphole Island]

Thinking about how much the VA guy has sung actually makes me physically angry. Like, they brought back Puck for 3 episodes and he sang 5 words and spoke 3. Same for Tina as far as singing goes. But not even that, he's singing more than Kurt, Blaine, Will, and Sam combined it feels like. And when he's not singing, Sue is. Sigh...

 

Song distribution doesn't really bother me but yikes.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Craphole Island

[phoenixrising]

I think next week will have Jesse, Sam, and Kurt singing to Rachel while they each try to persuade her to their POV.

 

I have no words left for this show anymore. Why can't it end quicker?

[CleoCaesar]

Oh look, Sue is trying to destroy the glee club. At least the show is working with fresh material. Oh wait...

 

I liked "Rather Be". It all went downhill after that. Becky's mush-mouthed yelling, Sue, Sue's mom, Jane being annoying again (hon, it's not sexism that you, a woman, did not get admitted to an all-male choir; for fuck's sake), everything being so cartoonish and awful.

 

I don't really see why Rachel should go back to NYADA. Presumably the point of NYADA is to break out on the Broadway scene and get cast in musicals. Rachel has already done that and is getting offers.

[upside down]

I really only watch this show to hear Lea Michelle sing. So for me this was a complete waste of time.

Next week instead of competition (is it regionals?) they should replay VA's Bohemian Rhapsody and original season's Don't Stop Believing and have Brad turn out the stage lights on his way out of the auditorium.

[camussie]

The point of NYADA and other performing arts schools is not merely to prepare people for auditioning well enough to get a role but also to develop their skills to build and sustain a career. Some people can develop those skills on the job but Rachel has proved she cannot. She couldn't make it a month before she was bored with it all. Not to mention she never seemed to have a fundamental understanding of all of the different components of a production that contribute to its success.

Really why should I believe the same thing won't happen again given that there is no indication she has learned a damn thing this year? Sure her time at back at NYADA might not teach her those things either but I think she has a better chance at developing staying power if she gets that education. Right now if she goes straight back to Broadway I think it is entirely likely she will be back in Lima within the year whining about how it all fell apart again.

Edited March 7, 2015 by camussie

[futurechemist]

Jane Lynch and Carol Burnett are good actors.  But why did they sing a song that reminds me of sending a rocket full of annoying people into the Sun?  I could stock that rocket full of Glee characters.

 

As for the rest of the episode, I think I can some it up in 1 word.  "What?!"  

 

Geraldo!  Random guest stars!  Teasing her twice, but actually no Whoopi!  Sue getting fired after 6 years of her behavior!  Sue getting hired for a job she's not qualified for!  Rachel magically going from disgraced to 2 job offers!  Angry shouty Becky!  Plot contrivance to give the glee club 15 members!  A musical TV show with 1 song in the first 30 minutes!  My husband asked if the writers are on drugs.  I personally think they have Senioritis and just don't care anymore.

 

So here's to Glee, the show that teaches us that no matter how badly someone behaves and no matter what they do, everything will just magically work out for them in the end no matter how little sense it makes.

Edited March 7, 2015 by futurechemist

[phoenixrising]

I feel like this whole "should Rachel choose Broadway now or NYADA now?" conflict is utterly pointless. We've seen her have both, and she took both for granted. 

 

What Glee needed to do was have Rachel work her ass off. Not hanging around her old high school, but going in, audition after audition, rejection after rejection, and then she finally gets an opportunity. Not a lead. But, she realizes that she loves performing for the love of performing, and not merely the attention and validation she gets from being the center of attention. She can work with her cast mates as a team, and she will actually be loyal to them this time instead of totally ruining Funny Girl after leaving (since she was allegedly the only good thing about it) and breaking her contract (which is never brought up again). She is actually grateful and realizes how good she has it. 

 

But obviously, Sue is more important. Ugh. 

[camussie]

I think he made sense that she should go back to school but not to have an education for an education's sake. Rather so she has a chance to develop the skills necessary to have a career on Broadway versus a few epic flame outs before she is stuck trying to showcase herself in Branson.

Phoenix, I agree to a point. They could have even used her time back in Lima to reconnect her to the love of performing through connecting with those kids and their joy of simply singing. From there they could have ended real time with her deciding either to audition her ass off or go back to school. Then the 5 year time jump would have been a tony that felt more earned.

Edited March 7, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

I think next week will have Jesse, Sam, and Kurt singing to Rachel while they each try to persuade her to their POV.

None of the songs fit this though.

 

 

Rachel and Jessie by the promo look like they may have a duet.

[Advance35]

I don't really see why Rachel should go back to NYADA. Presumably the point of NYADA is to break out on the Broadway scene and get cast in musicals. Rachel has already done that and is getting offers.

 

 

Gotta agree.  Hollywood and Show Business (even Broadway) is full of people who are narcissistic, self-aggrandizing and thoughtless or indifferent to others.   Rachel when she's at her high-strung MOST will fit right in.  I've also gotten the impression that half the people known the world over are so famous because of connections.   There are times talent is there but backdoor deals and networking by people on behalf of others plays a big role in who gets parts and who doesn't.

 

But all of this is of little consequence since I saw Groff.  Sigh.   RIB are DAMN lucky J. Groff is so fond of Lea Michele because he did not have to lower himself to the level of Glee.   I'll take a duet and for the remainder of Rachel's scenes during the course of the show to be one on one with Jesse St. James.  Sigh.  He's so pretty.   The best male character the show came up with IMO.

[camussie]

Listen to your heart would fit with the guys trying to persuade rachel to look deep inside and figure out what her heart is saying about school vs. Broadway

[tom87]

Listen to your heart would fit with the guys trying to persuade rachel to look deep inside and figure out what her heart is saying about school vs. Broadway

More apt to think that is a St Berry duet, but yay it could be the 4. I'd love have seen a Kurt solo then sandwiched in a 4some and rather there be a St Berry duet instead.  

 

I think Rachel is going to be singing and Jessie shows up and starts singing ala Rolling in the deep.

Edited March 7, 2015 by tom87

[SadieT]

Every second of this episode was painful to watch. 

 

I don't really see why Rachel should go back to NYADA. Presumably the point of NYADA is to break out on the Broadway scene and get cast in musicals. Rachel has already done that and is getting offers.

 

I agree. I could see her going back to school if she couldn't find work and had nothing else on the horizon, but once she got the offer for the musical and now has a shot of getting her career back on track, school shouldn't even be an option because who knows if she'll get another opportunity to work professionally. Kids go to performing arts schools in hopes of performing professionally one day, you don't turn down the opportunity to work professionally just because some stupid boy who never even bothered to go to college himself thinks you need to so I really hope Rachel isn't talked out of doing what she wants because Sam somehow knows best. Most performers who have to make the choice between working professionally and attending a performing arts college are probably going to pick work (just like both Lea and Matt did). 

[camussie]

And once again I ask what indication is there that Rachel won't blow up her career again if she goes straight back to Broadway? What has changed between now and then? Has she developed a better understanding that a production is so much more than her role? Has she developed the skills to be able to keep a role fresh to herself and the audience for longer than a month? Has she developed a backbone so that a setback won't send her into a self indulgent tailspin?

Those are the questions Rachel herself should be weighing as she approaches this decision because they all play into the question of does she want to flame out again within a month or does she want a chance at actually building a career?

As far as the comparisons to Matt and Lea when they chose work over school neither one of them flamed our on Broadway because they weren't mature enough to handle the responsibility. Rachel already has so the question remains has she learned from it so it won't happen again. If she can't say yes then choosing school gives her a better chance at a lasting career

[tom87]

And once again I ask what indication is there that Rachel won't blow up her career again if she goes straight back to Broadway? What has changed between now and then? Has she developed a better understanding that a production is so much more than her role? Has she developed the skills to be able to keep a role fresh to herself and the audience for longer than a month? Has she developed a backbone so that a setback won't send her into a self indulgent tailspin?

Those are the questions Rachel herself should be weighing as she approaches this decision because they all play into the question of does she want to flame out again within a month or does she want a chance at actually building a career?

As far as the comparisons to Matt and Lea when they chose work over school neither one of them flamed our on Broadway because they weren't mature enough to handle the responsibility. Rachel already has so the question remains has she learned from it so it won't happen again. If she can't say yes then choosing school gives her a better chance at a lasting career

First off do we even know what she chooses yet?   

 

My problem with the story isn't even if she chooses one or the other, I think there are pros and cons to both. My problem is it is the lazy writing they even gave her the two choices.   I would have rather seen her choose go back to a different school but keep auditioning.    Fast forward with success  after a few years working at it.

Edited March 7, 2015 by tom87

[Beach Party]

Sue getting fired and then raked over the coals wasn't satisfying.  Probably because I didn't care anymore about her character.  Then the show had to make her the Vocal Adrenaline coach.  What a waste of a final season this has been so far!

[vb68]

The only thing I liked at all was The Trolley Song, which I'm taking as an indirect salute to The Sweeney Sisters, and anything that reminds me of the glorious Jan Hooks is fine with me.   

Edited March 7, 2015 by vb68