S02.E14: T. Earl King VI

[formerlyfreedom]

A former paramour involves Reddington in a deadly game with a wealthy, powerful family dynasty whose ill-begotten fortune was amassed from an underground auction of human and material contraband. Meanwhile, Tom takes on a new mission.

 

 

[Danielg342]

Tom is back. :) I will enjoy seeing that.

[paigow]

Red "captured"... again. Dumb...or...a clever ruse...again?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Red "captured"... again. Dumb...or...a clever ruse...again?

 

The problem is that Red was captured so recently (it was only 4 episodes ago) that I can't believe they are going there again so soon.  I guess since Lizzie and Ressler get captured practically every week we're so used to it, but in Red's case it's always intentional.

[Julia]

...and then Red told her to give up on him, but he's totally not the boss of her, so she'll say when she's done with him, thank you very much. Weekly.

 

Appreciate her not putting her coworkers out to trace the nice chummy extended phone call from her killer ex, though. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by Julia

[ottoDbusdriver]

That was just a stupid episode -- are they farming out the script-writing to the interns ?

 

So, did they drug and remove the clothing of all the attendees or was that privilege only afforded to Lizzie ?  Because that seems pretty odd.  Wasn't Lizzie wondering who stripped her down to her undies -- and if they took a peek while doing so ?  Good thing she wasn't wearing a wire.  And was the plan to drug everyone when they left so they didn't know the location of the auction ?

 

What the fuck was with the phone call from Tom ?  Why are they so chummy all of a sudden ?  Is this the start of the 'Tom and Lizzie  still love each other' sub-plot ?

 

I thought that was a real waste of Lance Hendriksen, but then per the previews

he's back next week.

Edited March 6, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[shura]

WTF was that phone call? How is it at all what people in Tom and Lizzie's situation would do?

 

Lizzie is really dense. All that psychobabble she laid on Red may very well apply to him, but he was not telling her that he doesn't want her to try to help him again. He was telling her not to risk getting herself killed. You can't really derive "you are damaged and cannot accept help from other people" from that.

 

My absolute favorite moment of the episode: Lizzie punching random numbers into the lock on Red's cell and being really surprised that the lock is not opening. And demanding from Red "What is the combination?"

[thuganomics85]

Hello again, Jeffery DeMunn.  Still remember you as Dale from The Walking Dead.  You may have been in a wheelchair and talked in a robotic voice here, but at least you didn't have that stupid bucket hat anymore.  Also got a kick out of one of his sons being played by the actor who played Dr. Edwards on The Walking Dead this past season.  They're everywhere!

 

At least Red actually got captured, and it wasn't all part of his grand plan.  I actually didn't mind Lizzie too much in this, except when she just started randomly punching numbers in the keypad, because that was incredibly stupid.  Also, I know she was going for sophisticated American for her cover, but I felt like sometimes Megan Boone slipped into a plain British accent, which was highly amusing.  Still!  I didn't mind her, which is good thing.

 

So, this is actually what they are planning with Harold?  By taking his friend's help, the friend now is using him to help him with some nefarious deeds?  Really?  Christ, this type of story has been played to death.  And, in this case, there are several ways Harold could probably put a stop to this, but he's probably just going to keep getting dragged through the mud.

 

At least Tom's back.  And already undercover.  And, apparently has Lizzie on speed-dial.  But, hey, Lance Henriksen!

 

ETA: Can't believe Madeline/Jennifer Ehle came back and barely did anything.  What a waste.

Edited March 6, 2015 by thuganomics85

[HappyDancex2]

This episode was really boring. A disturbing example of too much other people, not enough Red.

The A-team are a bunch of bumbling idiots. Ressler and Keane deserve each other and the other woman has gone from bad ass to dumb ass in a hot minute. Gads writers!

[missbonnie]

I thought it was easily the best episode since the one that aired on the night of the Super Bowl. I was just about to give up on this show.

[Danielg342]

I thought it was a lot of fun, but- as seems to have been the case with Criminal Minds this week, entertainment seems to trump everything. You could probably fit Texas into the amount of plot holes this episode generated.

 

First of all, I have yet to understand why Keene cares so much about Red. He practically destroyed her former life, used her and the FBI for his own ends, insists on being a part of her life and yet he never explains why. So much headache for so little gain. Sure, he's done things for her and looks like he genuinely cares for her, but I'm not sure it absolves the other stuff. I guess that's supposed to be the next "mystery".

 

Secondly, I wonder why the King's auctions haven't been even known up to this stage. So many stolen items...so many kidnapped people...you'd think someone would get a clue eventually. Plus, not just any theft or kidnapping...these are high value thefts and people, the kind that everyone would notice are missing. It's one thing to kidnap Joe from across the street and sell him on the black market, but celebrities like that kid and Red? That's asking for trouble.

 

Oh, speaking of trouble...I guess this was the writers' way of establishing that someone could outsmart Red, but it was stupid. I could buy that Madeliene Pratt would draw out Red, but why would Red so foolishly fall for that trap? He alerted the FBI about the problem, perhaps as an indicator that he couldn't extract Pratt on his own, but, instead of allowing the FBI to do their job, Red decides to go at it alone, with the inevitable result. I get it, early in the show, you need to establish plot, but that was horribly contrived.

 

...and yet, I was entertained. I don't know how, but I was. Red was as cool as a cucumber for the entire episode, not worried once about what was going to happen. He was at his snarkfest best and that really kept things moving. It was also great that there were several characters around that could hold a candle to him, like the Cameroonian who won the bid on him and the slimeball King brothers- who were so great displaying their sibling rivalry. The pacing was also very nice and the story flowed very logically- plus I apprecited that they called back to the real Josephine Sullivan at the right moment. Sure, I guess I should have seen that coming, giving how dumb the government is in this show, but I did worry it'd be a dangling plot thread and the episode handled it beautifully.

 

Oh...and Tom. Major Tom. Or, should I say "Christof Mannheim", able to beat up an entire bar by himself. Not sure I like the cliches of being in Germany (Dresden, even, one of the former bastions of East Germany) with Neo-Nazis inside a heavy metal bar full of leather jacket-clad patrons- who were mostly all male, by the way- but the scene was a good one and maybe it'll serve some greater purpose later.

 

Good tonight.

 

ETA- One other nitpick: what happened to Dembe? Surely the mansion guys weren't just going to shock him and leave him there...and why didn't the FBI think to ask him what happened after finding out what happened to Red?

Edited March 6, 2015 by Danielg342

[ottoDbusdriver]

So it's confirmed that Cooper has a golf ball-sized tumor in his brain, and has under a year to live.  And yet no one really cares, since they dragged this mystery out so long everyone just assumed it was cancer of some sort and moved along already.

 

Despite that fact that Red actually visited Lizzie in her hotel room, there was no sign of the dog.  Not even a bark.   Is the dog dead of neglect in the bathroom ?  Because if there had been a dog in that motel room, that stuffed rabbit would have been chewed to pieces by now.

 

I hope Dembe was alright after being tasered.

[Kelda Feegle]

Tom - with tattoos that healed instantly gahhhhhhh

[shura]

What is Madeleine's story again? I couldn't remember who she was, only a vague recollection of Red telling her about the fire (if that was her, which I'm not 100% sure).

 

Does anybody know if Neo-Nazis really can walk around in Germany with SS symbols tattooed in visible places? I thought something like that was a much bigger no-no in Germany than anywhere else. 

 

I didn't quite understand the economics of Red's bounty either. I thought the guy said the bounty was 14 million, and yet he bid 18 million. I suppose he hates Red so much he can cover the difference out of his own pocket.

 

First of all, I have yet to understand why Keene cares so much about Red.

 

Maybe she is angling for more material things out of him than just an apartment.

[jelaine]

 

I thought the guy said the bounty was 14 million, and yet he bid 18 million.

The bounty was $40 million, though I will totally buy he would have gone in the hole money-wise just to kill Red.

[Danielg342]

Maybe she is angling for more material things out of him than just an apartment.

Manipulative Liz...I might enjoy that. However, if that is the case with her, I hope the show gets on with that instead of leaving so many lingering threads.

Oh the stories this show could tell if it just bothered to tell them...

[Primetimer]

Red gets sold, Liz goes undercover, and Tom returns…only this time he's a Nazi!

Read the story

[ottoDbusdriver]

Manipulative Liz...I might enjoy that. However, if that is the case with her, I hope the show gets on with that instead of leaving so many lingering threads.

Oh the stories this show could tell if it just bothered to tell them...

 

How many times now has Lizzie said she is "done with Red" and that they have no personal relationship, only work.  Then she pulls out the "I risked my life for you because I care about you" while babbling about Red and his trust issues and how he's not willing to accept help.  Which is all such bullshit.

Edited March 6, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[pcta]

My big take away from this episode - Lizzie looked really frumpy.

[saber5055]

I have to say, I laughed out loud when, at the end, Red fired the revolver ... "What are the ODDS?" ... and killed the guy in the wheelchair. Whom, I did not know until I came here, was poor DALE, whom I wept for last time I saw him die.

 

Once again I didn't recognize Lance Hendricksen. Maybe because I still see him as Frank Black in Millennium. Yes, I AM that old. What character did he play? (I didn't recognize him on Hannibal, either, and had to be told. Gah.)

 

Yes, WTHeck was up with stripping Lizzie to her undies (not black this time!) and then, when the door opens, she grabs the coverup to hide from the maid, then drops it when Dale wheels in? I thought she would have been wearing a bug of some sort, but I guess FBI trusts her to go undercover and ... whatever, she'll be fine. It did make me think maybe she needs a microchip implant, however, so she can be found.

 

Then the black gown she wore to the auction? I guess her white suit wasn't classy enough.

 

I SWEAR I saw Tom in the back of the auction crowd, wearing a fake long beard.

 

Red bidding on himself was a highlight, however. 

 

How did Lizzie know that VanGogh painting was in the auction?

 

Red became surprisingly inarticulate at the end of the show, when Lizzie wanted him to thank her. Sometimes you just need to STFU, Lizzie. And for Red to just SIT THERE and say NOTHING? Really out of character, writers of Red.

 

So Tom gets real tats for his new job, and on his neck, too. Geesh. Way to ruin your next job interview. And while he's a "trained assassin," I still can't figure how he can wipe out a bar full of heavyweights all by himself.

 

I wondered how the actor playing Tom felt about giving himself a butch. That had to be a one-take scene.

 

And yeah, way to try to find Tom. He calls you and you just click "disconnect" when the call is over and go on with whatever. The heck? Real FBI of you, Lizzie.

Edited March 6, 2015 by saber5055

[edhopper]

I guess Tom doesn't know he can be arrested in Germany for openly having Nazi tattoos like the SS on his neck. That's some great undercover prep. :(

[moviewhore]

Tom giving himself the buzzcut and then getting inked while smoking a cigarette was pure hotness to me.  Damn, what a change from the glasses-wearing teacher disguise.  That and Tom going all American History X later made the episode for me.

 

I thought Boone was good, particularly in the car with Red when he told her "don't ever do that again." 

[saber5055]

Those smoking cigarette closeups were some great artsy film footage. But if Tom is/was a smoker, he was great at keeping those nicotine withdrawls (or secret smokes) secret from his wife. But then Tom is the master of ... everything! I wonder if he will come back next week when Lizzie gets called into court for that Harbormaster thing. (If that's what happens.)

 

My absolute favorite moment of the episode: Lizzie punching random numbers into the lock on Red's cell and being really surprised that the lock is not opening. And demanding from Red "What is the combination?"

 

 

That was the Lizzie we all know and love!

 

Otto, you are never going to get your answer to "where is the dog." More's the pity.

[edhopper]

Unless that's part of his mission.

 

I doubt it, he already met his target in the bar, no need to get arrested. Just bad research on the writters part.

[Julia]

Hey, question. We've already established that there's a shadowy faction in the FBI who have it in for Coopers' team. So, much as I get the idea that this version of the FBI is the gang who couldn't shoot straight, am I the only one who's wondering if rich guy's little friend got to call her lawyer by accident? Still don't know why she'd be so anxious to warn her boss when she'd managed to keep herself off the hook up to that point and he was already going down, but it seems like an unlikely accident (but, the suspect told me she'd been in custody for two hours and she hasn't spoken to her lawyer, and you know how strongly we feel about constitutional protections here in the secret supervillain hit team unit...)

Edited March 6, 2015 by Julia

[ottoDbusdriver]

Otto, you are never going to get your answer to "where is the dog." More's the pity.

 

You're probably right.

[saber5055]

Maybe that good-looking guy Red hired to keep an eye on Lizzie in that sleezebag hotel has the dog. Yeah, that's the ticket ... man loses woman, gets dog. It's a win win! (Plus I don't know what happened to him, either.)

[aliya]

I have to say, I laughed out loud when, at the end, Red fired the revolver ... "What are the ODDS?" ... and killed the guy in the wheelchair. Whom, I did not know until I came here, was poor DALE, whom I wept for last time I saw him die.

...

So Tom gets real tats for his new job, and on his neck, too. Geesh. Way to ruin your next job interview. 

 The 'what are the odds' moments are why I love Red. Gosh that was funny.  Re Tom's tats - I can't believe I was thinking about this on the bus today. A tat on his neck? Surely he wouldn't want something like that the rest of his life. Was it real? What would he do with it later? Would he need to wear makeup? Could he get it removed?  I don't know why, but it was driving me batty.

 

And yeah - were all the guests drugged? How were they going to leave? Why didn't anyone know what the antiques person looked like - Google someone's name, especially someone with a job/specialty like that, and you find a picture. Takes 5 seconds. I was waiting for Lizzie to get nabbed for being a fake, but I guess I'm the only one who uses Google. 

[gik910]

I forgot how attractive Tom was.  I'd watch hours of him getting ready for various assignments.  Also, that German cover that way playing while he prepped was awesome.

 

Red bidding on himself was a delight.

 

I don't like the story for Harold- but I do like dark Harold! 

[Dowel Jones]

So, all these guests were taken to an extremely remote location, with subterreanean tunnels, and yet, there's a lighted EXIT sign at the end of the hallway that Lizzie points Little Harry Potter stand-in toward.  Let me guess.  There's also a "This Door Must Remain Unlocked During Business Hours" sign on it too?  One must obey the rules, after all. 

 

What in the world did actual Art Lady hope to gain by ratting out Lizzie to the King brothers?  A pat on the back?  You're going down big time, lady, and you show about as much common sense as the FBI.  Oh, by the way, Kings; you missed out on the auction of the century.  It was on the other network.  Would have made a great cameo, though.

 

Dembe:  "Boss, we need to talk.  I've been taking some major league hits for you here lately..."

[AnnA]

The 'what are the odds' moments are why I love Red. Gosh that was funny.

Yes it was!

If I could have "liked" your post a hundred times I would have.

Violence isn't something that makes me smile........except when it's Red. I don't know what kind of magic spell he's put me under but I'm loving it.

Edited March 8, 2015 by AnnA

[SherriAnt]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would totally watch "Tom, SuperSecret Spyguy" if they want to make it a spinoff!

[Danielg342]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would totally watch "Tom, SuperSecret Spyguy" if they want to make it a spinoff!

I agree. Maybe they should have changed the premise and have Red get involved with Tom to investigate his “wife”, Elizabeth Keene.

(Who, if I'm not mistaken, we have yet to learn what her maiden name is)

[kitmerlot1213]

I agree. Maybe they should have changed the premise and have Red get involved with Tom to investigate his “wife”, Elizabeth Keene.

(Who, if I'm not mistaken, we have yet to learn what her maiden name is)

 

I just recently rewatched the beginning episodes and I think her maiden name is Scott.

 

And I actually kind of like Tom calling to talk to Liz and then awkwardly asking how she's been.  Of course Liz still loves Tom--even finding out about the lies and betrayal of their relationship doesn't mean that she can completely stop loving him, and it looks like Tom's feelings run a little deeper then we first thought.

 

I could also spend a happy hour watching Tom getting ready for various spy missions--he is a damn good looking man :):)

 

I also like that red told Liz that she can't risk her life for him again--his line readings feel wonderfully paternal which I enjoy.

[Julia]

Of course Liz still loves Tom--even finding out about the lies and betrayal of their relationship doesn't mean that she can completely stop loving him\

 

This may be true about Lizzie specifically- after all, she doesn't have any real issue with Red killing her dad that lasted until the next episode - but IRL I think it's entirely possible to find out your spouse is a homicidal sociopath. who married you because he was ordered to and did you deliberate damage over the course of your marriage. and find that you don't really feel the same warm fuzzy feelings about him. Especially after he murdered someone and hung you out to dry. I think you'd pretty much have to be Lizzie to find that romantic.

[Danielg342]

I just recently rewatched the beginning episodes and I think her maiden name is Scott.

Ah, my bad. I stepped out after The Pilot but came back for "Anslo Garrick" once I saw the reviews it was getting. Haven't left since.

And I actually kind of like Tom calling to talk to Liz and then awkwardly asking how she's been. Of course Liz still loves Tom--even finding out about the lies and betrayal of their relationship doesn't mean that she can completely stop loving him, and it looks like Tom's feelings run a little deeper then we first thought.

Star-crossed lovers? Well, we all know Liz would be crazy to follow through on a love like that...but then again, we all know love is crazy, right? Could work.

[paigow]

Star-crossed lovers? Well, we all know Liz would be crazy to follow through on a love like that...but then again, we all know love is crazy, right? Could work.

Liz: OK Tom, you can come home but follow the ground rules.

 

No talking to Red or anyone at the FBI.

No killing innocent bystanders.

No smoking

 

Tom: OK - No Smoking. But not sure about the other stuff.

 

Liz: I am done with you!.... Meet me in one hour at the Lincoln Memorial.

[bookworm]

Love Red bidding on himself. Also love the moment when the winner tells Red that he's not going to Joburg, the $40M was "On your head!" as he distractedly taps the head-sized briefcase he's carrying.  Of course, one hopes he bought the waterproof and drip-proof case at Staples.

[Ottis]

Red was as cool as a cucumber for the entire episode, not worried once about what was going to happen

 

 

I'm convinced that the goal of the show now is to provide increasingly disturbing blacklisters and then have Red act like he has no care in the world. Because no one else on this show is developing except the blacklisters.

 

I had to replay Lizzie punching in the random code. I was sure she knew something, and was shocked when upon replay I realized she was doing what any 6yo does when faced with a code lock.

 

I did not recognize Dale. I did recognize Bishop from Alien. And the fact someone thinks Millenial was that long ago distresses me. :-)

 

Add: Now that I think about it, the way the Kings operated - especially after losing a "bet" - would translate nicely to Celebrity Apprentice.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Ottis

[betsyboo]

I have to say, I laughed out loud when, at the end, Red fired the revolver ... "What are the ODDS?" ... and killed the guy in the wheelchair.

...

 

I SWEAR I saw Tom in the back of the auction crowd, wearing a fake long beard.

Ditto!

[Wynterwolf]

Awwww!  The phone call between Tom and Lizzie was the most dysfunctionally adorable thing I've seen in a long time.  <3333

[Julia]

I think it's usually best - or at least safest - not to look too hard at how people choose their OTPs.

[IWantCandy71]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would totally watch "Tom, SuperSecret Spyguy" if they want to make it a spinoff!

Honestly, he's the only reason I keep loving this show. James is awesome, but he's kind of playing the same beats over and over as Red. It's not even a contest for me as to which character between Red and Tom is more interesting and exciting to watch.

This may be true about Lizzie specifically- after all, she doesn't have any real issue with Red killing her dad that lasted until the next episode - but IRL I think it's entirely possible to find out your spouse is a homicidal sociopath. who married you because he was ordered to and did you deliberate damage over the course of your marriage. and find that you don't really feel the same warm fuzzy feelings about him. Especially after he murdered someone and hung you out to dry. I think you'd pretty much have to be Lizzie to find that romantic.

I think it's perfectly okay to like them as a couple (even though Lizzie puts the D in drippy), and yet at the same time, know and openly acknowledge how twisted it kinda is.

I'm not one of those who thinks that because Tom punched her in the face, that he was domestically abusive, because I saw that moment as him doing his job/doing what he had to do. As if Lizzie wouldn't punch him if she had to. She kept him prisoner, so of course she would have done the very same thing.

And it's not better or right for a woman to do it.

Anyway-it's twisted, but it's them. And it's entertaining. It's not healthy or sane, but it's fun.

Edited March 10, 2015 by IWantCandy71

[Julia]

I think it's perfectly okay to like them as a couple (even though Lizzie puts the D in drippy), and yet at the same time, know and openly acknowledge how twisted it kinda is.

 

I'm not one of those who thinks that because Tom punched her in the face, that he was domestically abusive, because I saw that moment as him doing his job/doing what he had to do. As if Lizzie wouldn't punch him if she had to. She kept him prisoner, so of course she would have done the very same thing.

And it's not better or right for a woman to do it.

Anyway-it's twisted, but it's them. And it's entertaining. It's not healthy or sane, but it's fun.

 

The thing about mileage is how it varies. With the exception of the punching in the face thing. It's felony criminal assault, so yeah, abuse. Unlawful imprisonment is also a felony, and also abuse. For the rest, YKINMK, but that's OK.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Julia

[IWantCandy71]

The thing about mileage is how it varies. With the exception of the punching in the face thing. It's felony criminal assault, so yeah, abuse. Unlawful imprisonment is also a felony, and also abuse. For the rest, YKINMK, but that's OK.

Oh, it's not a kink. I said it was okay to like them as a couple. I never said *I* did.

I do like Tom, not because he's done good things(after all, he let Lizzie live, so strike one against him), but because this is a fictional show, he's a fictional character, and I don't base my moral code on what ANY of these idiots do.  I watch for entertainment.

I don't think this is the show to watch if you want to watch good people doing mostly good things. And I'm always astounded at the number of people who jump around about Tom, when RED is far, far worse by my estimation.

In fact, IDK if my guesses are right, but I think in the end, Red's "affection" for Lizzie may be genuine, but it also may be an elaborate game. Maybe both at once. And I think what we thought at the beginning-that Red is a good guy underneath and Tom is not-will be proven the opposite by the end of the series.

As far as I'm concerned, we have a murderous, (irredeemable)  psychopath as a main character, so for anyone getting up in arms over violence, I wonder why they watch.

Edited March 10, 2015 by IWantCandy71

[Wynterwolf]

What I'm waiting (not so patiently) for is getting more scenes between Red and Tom.  I actually like Lizzie, so I am excited to see the dynamic between the three of them (but no, I'm not a Red/Lizzie shipper... I'm 98% certain he is her father).  

 

From the scene between Tom and 'Bishop', I am wondering if Tom was able to almost be closer to his actual self when he was with Lizzie, and I think he misses that.  

[IWantCandy71]

Just to clarify, I think both Liz and Tom AND Liz/Red are sick, dysfunctional relationships, whether they are romantic or not. But that doesn't mean they can't be fun to watch.

But at least I can buy physical and emotional/mental attraction with Tom and LIz. I can't with Red, and it's not because I think he's her father, because I don't think he is. I think the reveal that he is, is too simple, and I  hope this show is more clever than to constantly do the expected.

That said, the idea of Red and Liz just flat out grosses me out. It's not the age difference so much as it is, that they have zero chemistry in that way.

I think there's just as much a chance that Tom could turn out to be Red's kid, instead of it being Lizzie. If indeed Red even has a living child.

[Wynterwolf]

I think there's just as much a chance that Tom could turn out to be Red's kid, instead of it being Lizzie. If indeed Red even has a living child.

 

Ah IWantCandy71,  you're taking me back to when I would have given anything for Sark to have been Sydney's brother.  At this point though, I think it's almost immaterial whether Red is Lizzie's biological father or not, I think he treats her like a daughter and especially in that scene in the car... that came across to me so strongly like a dad not wanting their child to risk their life for them.  But at this point, it's still all about perception so an audience member is free to create what they choose.  When they do finally answer that question either way, I think it will be the least important question that is answered depending on what the Fulcrum is and what it does, and who might want it.  

[IWantCandy71]

Oh, I think the question to "who is Red's child?" if he has one, will be very important in the scheme of things. I have to say personally for me though, it's the least interesting "thread" or angle of the show.

I just don't care about it. On a personal level, I don't find it important in my enjoyment of the scenes.

But I think they've focused too much on his past, on a possible child, for it not to be extremely significant down the road.

It did occur to me Tom and Liz could BOTH be his kids (very far fetched, I know) and *that* is why Red wants them away from each other. In that imaginary canon, Red didn't know about it at first, but now he does.

 

Anyway, I really enjoy Tom Keen. A perfect "dark horse" character.

[Danielg342]

Oh, I think the question to "who is Red's child?" if he has one, will be very important in the scheme of things. I have to say personally for me though, it's the least interesting "thread" or angle of the show.

I just don't care about it. On a personal level, I don't find it important in my enjoyment of the scenes.

But I think they've focused too much on his past, on a possible child, for it not to be extremely significant down the road.

It did occur to me Tom and Liz could BOTH be his kids (very far fetched, I know) and *that* is why Red wants them away from each other. In that imaginary canon, Red didn't know about it at first, but now he does.

Anyway, I really enjoy Tom Keen. A perfect "dark horse" character.

Well...um...if Tom and Liz were both Red's kids...that means...they committed incest...I mean, we did see them kiss quite a bit...looking back and thinking they're actually siblings while they were doing that...talk about your squick.

I'll have to think about that if it's good squick or not.