Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER

ElectricBoogaloo

S04.E17: Karma

Recommended Posts

Reese and Finch try to protect a psychologist whose unorthodox methods for helping his patients find closure could cost him dearly. Meanwhile, flashbacks reveal Finch’s fragile state in the days following the bombing that killed his best friend, Nathan Ingram.

 

Promo:

Share this post


Link to post

So I have mixed feelings on this episode. On the one hand, I thought it was decent overall--better than the last two episodes have been, though not as good as Guilty. On the other, it was INSANELY predictable and really hard to get excited about. So it was solid, but, like, uninspiring/not super interesting. Not a whole lot of spark. I called at about the 23 minute mark pretty much exactly how the rest of the episode would go. And the Finch flashbacks were a really good idea in theory--and I usually really adore seeing Finch’s dark side--but they were underwhelming for me in execution. I liked seeing Alicia again, but I felt like the flashbacks were striving to be uber deep and just didn’t quite get there. I’m not sure what was missing, but they were lacking something.

 

I would say that about the episode as a whole, in fact. It was good in theory but ultimately fell flat in execution, especially in the second half. The whole “we may never know, and The Machine does but won’t tell us, but we just have to live with not knowing” would have been much more effective if Finch hadn’t just the same exact thing, like, three episodes ago to Root about Shaw. But the sentiment was so repetitive, and the stakes so much lower and less emotional this time, that as a “grand piece of wisdom” it landed with a thud. (Also, it makes no sense…I can think of a number of reasons why The Machine won’t tell them about Shaw. I don’t see a reason The Machine can’t help them solve the cold case by pointing them in the right direction.)

 

Similarly, I think the vigilante storyline was a good one in theory but fell apart a little bit in execution, and actually was made less effective by being paired with Finch’s flashbacks. The way the situations mirrored each other exactly was way too on the nose, and so it all ended up coming off like Harold’s Very Special Episode. I appreciated what Emerson did with his monologue to the therapist, but it just didn't quite work. And while I liked hearing the team disagree over what to do with the whole situation, I also thought Fusco and John were twisted a little out of character in not even considering that the delivery guy might be innocent. (Also, it's VERY hard for me to believe that someone wouldn't have realized at the time of the trial that the therapist lied about seeing the delivery truck. Very very hard.) The episode might actually have been made more interesting if the vigilante story was simpler/more morally clear, and if the team's disagreements had been given more time to breathe.

 

I liked Iris as a standalone character more than ever before tonight, but I still don’t like that the show is flirting with a romantic relationship between her and John and so am leery of where that’s going. Also, maybe this is my cold heart talking, but I wasn’t moved by Reese’s scene talking about Jessica. Like, not at all. Not a single iota. It told us nothing new about the character...I mean, the entire show is based on the premise that Reese doesn’t know how to move on and deal with grief. We’ve only seen that 325235 times before now. It seems clear they don’t know what to do with the Reese character, because they keep going to the same well over and over. No new ground to tread with the character.

 

Speaking of Root, in an episode devoted to grief and moving on, the show missed a GOLDEN opportunity to include her tonight. And that’s actually another of my annoyances with this episode, one that doesn’t exactly have to do with the episode itself, but nevertheless: there are now only 5 episodes left this season. Where are the stakes being amped up? Where is the ramp-up to the climactic last 2-3 episodes? Why have we wasted time the past 4 episodes with episodes that are basically filler and haven’t gotten us any closer to resolving either of the two big season-long storylines? (Because neither Q&A nor Blunt changed the Samaritan or Brotherhood status quos at all.) This time last season, we had episodes like RAM and Root Path. None of the last 4 episodes can come close to those. I hope the next episode is very very exciting, because so far, this back half isn’t quite roaring. It’s more like whimpering along to the conclusion.

Edited by stealinghome
  • Love 11

Share this post


Link to post

Finch was great tonight. Especially at the end. I need more time to give my full thoughts on how everything went down... And maybe an ondemand rewatch.

I can't tell if Reese's shrink will turn out to be a plant by Samaritan or not and that makes me uncomfortable.

Loved Reese correcting Fusco's comment to Finch about his nutball friends "ah, you're now a nutball friend." Ha! And Aw that Fusco's totally apart of the gang... He even has Reese's number on why he's seeing the therapist.

Edited by Gigi43
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

How did anybody ever believe the PoI's framings? I don't see how the guy framed in the bank can get convicted if he gets a half-decent lawyer. He says he came to the bank because someone called him and told to come. The bank guy says someone called him and said the accused is coming in, give him the keys to the vault. Phone records show that both calls were made from the same number. The accused himself never said anything about robbing the bank - if the banker's memory is not clear on that, there's the security cameras footage where you can see the accused's body language, at least. Good luck with that, prosecutors.

 

Same with the PoI's final plan. I'm gonna kill myself, gunpowder residue, pictures on the walls that Morris apparently put up in the last couple of days after having been released from prison. Never mind that there is a message from the brother (that the brother never sent) telling Morris to go to the botanical garden. And the clincher - Harold, just say that he did it, okay? And what if Harold says no, what happens then?

Edited by shura
  • Love 3

Share this post


Link to post

I was going to voice an opinion....but Stealinghome already voiced mine.  :)  Completely agree it was out of character for Lionel and John to so want to kill someone who could be innocent.  And the repetitive argument of how to deal with evil needs to have some point, one would hope this season - or what a lost opportunity.

  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post

I really enjoyed this episode.  I liked the Finch flashbacks a lot and the conflict between the team was strong.  I appreciated the fact that we never found out if Morris actually murdered the POI's wife.

 

I agree that the POI's plan was very easy to guess from the beginning and that there's no way the framing of that guy in the beginning would be able to stand.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

I actually don't mind John's brewing romance with Iris. After Kara Stanton and flirtatious Zoe and presumably other seemingly meaningless offscreen hook ups, this one  seems to be potentially substantive. That's why I was pleasantly surprised that Jessica's name came up. It was easy to think John's grief reference in this episode would be either Carter or Shaw but to go back right to the beginning with Jessica (I've finally given up my pilot episode prediction that she's alive somewhere) shows that Reese might be into this new lady, despite himself. She's his therapist and so a line has already been crossed but then again, she also knows he's not a cop (not really) and that there's more to his shenanigans and yet she hasn't outed him. I'm also happy with the deliberate pace at which they're exploring this, as long as she doesn't turn out to be Decima or something.

 

As for this week's case, I thought it was nothing special but I liked the flashbacks. It's interesting that it was the Machine that pulled Finch from the brink but I find it hard to believe that Control and others in government didn't investigate Finch's threats or indeed that he wasn't a prime suspect to those that knew of his existence. Finch's arguments with his team about the worth of a life have become repetitive now but I don't mind that; what I mind is that he is not winning over converts. Even Fusco first foray into these debates, he sided with John. We know which side Root or Shaw belong to. Finch gets his way because he's the team leader but he must start convert some, Fusco is a good start. At least it keeps team dynamics interesting.

Share this post


Link to post

I feel like I would have liked this episode a lot more if the timing had been a little different.  Sometimes it's nice to have an episode or two where the stakes feel a little lower, but I feel like we've had enough of those at this point, and it's time for things to be picking up again.  Like, I appreciated the callback to John's reaction when Jessica was killed, and it was at least interesting to see Finch contemplating something similar after what happened to Nathan (also, I may have been more emotional than expected when the Machine turned Finch's little tracker box from yellow to red), but I didn't feel much sense of urgency from either of those things in this episode, and the actual case of the week guy wasn't really compelling enough for me to care about his story on its own.

 

I do think adding Root to the mix, somehow, could have helped this episode a lot.  First of all, framing people for stuff is kind of what she did for a living for fifteen years, so it might have been fun to see her react to this guy's amateur hour work.  Secondly, she's the only one on Team Machine that's currently still in vengeance mode, so her presence could have helped it tie in a little better to the season-long storylines while simultaneously making it a bit less dude-centric.  Also, then Root would be there, which, in my opinion, is never a bad thing.

  • Love 5

Share this post


Link to post

I, too, was surprised that Root wasn't in this episode. I thought that his experience after Nathan's death would be used to connect with Root's grief over Shaw. Perhaps it still might.

 

I guess you could say this episode was a stand-alone, although there was some progress on the Reese-therapist front. Namely, that Reese actually started talking about Jessica

 

In terms of season arcs, the next ep (I think we have to wait a few weeks) (spoiler tagged juuuuuuust in case)

A synopsis of "Skip" reads thusly; "Reese must protect a bounty hunter who refuses to let the potential threat to her life deter her from the relentless pursuit of her target. Also, Finch tries to set the plan he began in Shanghai in motion." (source http://www.spoilersguide.com/person-of-interest/season-4-episode-18-skip-guide/) So Jessica will actually appear in flashbacks, it seems...and there will be progress on that mysterious virus Harold put on that woman's computer earlier in the season...

Share this post


Link to post

Stealinghome said it all for me too. It was ok, but it should have been more. Flashbacks with Alicia could have added more than just insight that Finch was hella pissed off when Nathan die. Just feels like a wasted opportunity.

I really am confused by this whole Iris thing. As a therapist she's fine, but hints of romance are unnecessary. I don't feel any sexual chemistry with them, just awkwardness, but maybe I can't because of how unethical it is. Added to that is it's very irrisposible for Reese to get involved with someone who has no idea the danger she could be in by being with him. Finch had to give up Grace for that reason. But Reese thinks she's cute so it's ok that she becomes a target for one of the many people after him should his cover be blown? He was keeping Fusco away for that reason until he told Reese he decided it was worth the risk. But Fusco knows enough to make that decision. Iris doesn't. I just can't get ok with them being a thing. She's good at getting him to open up but that's her job. And just because she's good at that doesn't mean he's good for her. Reese would make a terrible boyfriend. They weren't at the gala 2 minutes before he ran off to be Batman. They've done the whole Reese loses someone he cares about, and Reese gets duped by a pretty girl before. So I don't get it. All this and sorry I perfer him with Zoe. They have chemistry to spare and they are good for each other. They both see right through the others BS. Plus she knows enough about what he does that she is aware of the risks.

Hopefully they pick up the pace soon. We've had the needed breather but now we need to get back to the heavy stuff.

  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post

I really like the way Finch interacts with dogs. 

I also thought his speech to the POI was well done. 

Otherwise - what everyone else said.

Oh - and tuxes look good on almost every one

Share this post


Link to post

Having the same ethical argument over and over is repetitive, but I actually appreciate it because it's showing both sides.  So much of TV takes a consequentialist approach where pretty much anything is ok, as long as the bad guys get it in the end, and hardly any character challenges that in any meaningful way. It's nice to see Finch 1) take a moral position I share and 2) keep at it even as things go pear-shaped -- he won't compromise his morals.  The flashbacks were entirely predictable, but they also helped show Finch has developed over the years, based on his experiences with the Machine, Nathan, and so on.  I think it makes sense, too, that Reese, Fusco, et al. continue to hold their own positions on this, given their own backgrounds and experiences. 

 

 

(Also, it makes no sense…I can think of a number of reasons why The Machine won’t tell them about Shaw. I don’t see a reason The Machine can’t help them solve the cold case by pointing them in the right direction.)

But is the Machine actually refusing to show them? Or did Finch just not ask, because he was focused on the present situation?  I don't think the Machine would volunteer information to solve an old crime just because.

 

 

I don't see how the guy framed in the bank can get convicted if he gets a half-decent lawyer.

I disagree.  The fact that the same burner phone made both calls won't prove anything, except possibly that the guy's alleged partner decided to screw him over.  "Somebody planted the gun!" is in fact an argument actual criminals make all the time, and police, ADAs, and jurors don't generally buy it.  He didn't need to say anything about robbing the place, because the bank official gave him the key card almost immediately. The guy walked into the bank angry and belligerent, so that body language is going to work against him.  And who would he blame for setting this up?  What's the motive?  Frame-ups are rare in the real world, so I don't think anyone would believe him.

 

The frame-up of his wife's alleged murderer, on the other hand, is iffier, not the least with his "Just tell the police you saw him shoot me!" to Finch.  At that point a rational person would have realized it was over, but I think the guy was so distraught he wasn't thinking straight.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

I really am confused by this whole Iris thing. As a therapist she's fine, but hints of romance are unnecessary. 

 

But, as you point out, it's only hints at this stage. And more from her than him. I think he knows the potential danger he could be putting her in and that's why he's hesitant. But she knows something's up and she seems ready to give it a go, ethics be damned. We don't know how tough she is because we don't know enough about her. I'm not talking about physical toughness, I mean strength of character, like Zoe for instance, and even Zoe has no clue about Samaritan and seems disconnected to Elias, The Brotherhood and such, getting with Reese would put her in as much a risk.

 

I think Zoe knows the kind of man Reese is and how he tends to operate. Iris seems to be interested in going beyond the stereotype and get to the man. But, like you said, being good at her job doesn't automatically make her good for him or more pertinently it might be very bad for her. I do hope that the show addresses all those nuances.

Share this post


Link to post

I disagree.  The fact that the same burner phone made both calls won't prove anything, except possibly that the guy's alleged partner decided to screw him over.  "Somebody planted the gun!" is in fact an argument actual criminals make all the time, and police, ADAs, and jurors don't generally buy it.  He didn't need to say anything about robbing the place, because the bank official gave him the key card almost immediately. The guy walked into the bank angry and belligerent, so that body language is going to work against him.  And who would he blame for setting this up?  What's the motive?  Frame-ups are rare in the real world, so I don't think anyone would believe him.

 

So you are saying that if I walk into a bank and someone hands me the key for whatever reason, it's pretty much enough to convict me for attempted robbery? Online banking it is then!

 

The guy doesn't have to prove his innocence though, does he? It's the prosecution who have to prove he is guilty. And what do they have? Only that he was at the bank. There is no evidence that he was actually trying to rob the bank, other than the banker's word, and who knows why he thought what he thought? And why would the guy who had just opened a club (or a gym, or whatever it was he was promoting on Facebook) decide to walk in and rob a bank in full view of the cameras? 

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

I actually thought this episode was the best one out of the last handful of standalones that we've had. I appreciated the flashbacks (I mean, THE LIBRARY!), the character beats, the Reese/Fusco interaction, and I thought it was a great showcase for Michael Emerson. I also thought the case of the week was predictable, yes, but pleasant to watch because it involved fun frame-ups and fast-paced scenes. I mean, I agree with everyone that it's about time we get back to business, but as a standalone with bonus flashbacks, I really liked this episode.

 

Michael Emerson is amazing. That is all. Every time he gets to show us a different side of Finch, whether it be genuine or partly genuine or just plain fake, it's a delight. It was jarring to see Finch legitimately threatening Alicia Corwin, actually intending to kill her. I mean, he had been eager to avenge Grace's potential death ("kill them all") so that's in character, but still. Jarring. And awesome.I also found it interesting that Finch became murderous after loss whereas Reese and this week's PoI became suicidal. Speaking of which, Michael Emerson was just spectacular when he talked the PoI down. I appreciated that, at least as I saw it, he was talking to the PoI but also to Reese. Telling them what happened in his past. Also, when Reese took the PoI's gun, I thought I saw understanding in JC's eyes. He's been there.

 

I thought that the scene between Alicia Corwin and Finch was fantastic, even if they didn't actually interact. Elizabeth Marvel was flawless as always; this was Corwin in-between. You could see just how the once unflappable professional started losing it, how she must have let her guilt consume her, how she left and eventually found herself in the middle of nowhere, paranoid. And the writing was smart; there was a reference to her relationship with Ingram (all starting with Brett Cullen's flirty "Alicia" way back when), and Finch's anonymous threat likely further fueled her paranoia/decision to leave. Also, we saw her already questioning the Machine. Remember when she once ambushed Finch, asking him to turn it off? Impressive continuity, as always.

 

Also, "I haven't given you a voice, so you have nothing to say". CHILLING. And yet the Machine kept calling. The only thing she could to to contact Finch, to stop him. Yet another hint that the Machine, unlike Samaritan, is benevolent. Did she want to prevent Alicia's death or did she want to prevent Finch from becoming a murderer?

 

I liked the PoI, although I thought that he looked distractingly like Paul Blackthorne. Like, they could be twins, he was just younger and a little less hot. It really took me out of the episode at times. I agree that the idea of framing people was not necessarily practical, but I guess the guy's obsession had made him super-meticulous. I did like that the episode didn't have a total happy ending. The PoI didn't, like, start dating the clearly smitten cute girl. He just said "maybe"; there was maybe a glimmer of hope but he still sounded almost noncommital. Because he knows that it's not that easy.

 

This was an interesting episode in terms of morality. I did like the tension between Reese, Finch and Fusco (the latter being matter-of-fact about it, very in character). It appeared that Team Machine was only interested in stopping the guy if he was going to kill somebody, otherwise they just let everything slide. I mean, during the bank robbery sequence, Reese made no attempt to stop the robbery or save the guy or even clear his name. I love that Reese isn't a hypocrite like that, isn't on his high horse about these things. Unlike Finch, who has always been a bit hypocritical in my opinion.

 

Finch, who actually said Carter's name out loud (low blow), as well as Shaw's. At which poor Reese actually winced. Finch can be pretty inconsiderate at times, unless it's about him. By the way, I love Finch. It may seem like I'm dissing him but I appreciate his point of view and I love how consistently his flaws are always written (Nathan dies = plant a car bomb, Grace is kidnapped = kill them all, Carter or Shaw are killed = c'mon you guys, get over it). That said, I thought it was clear that Finch was being especially harsh with Reese because he was remembering this dark period from his own life, he hated what he almost became (a killer) so he was snapping basically at himself. Poor Reese was just caught in the middle.

 

Speaking of Reese, Jim Caviezel also had some amazing moments. This episode was about Finch's loss, but I actually thought that, in many ways, JC's eyes said more than all of Finch's flashbacks put together. In the opening scene with Iris, right after Reese had listened to Finch recounting his feelings post-Ingram's death, he really was visibly affected (because he is so empathetic). I do love how Jim Caviezel just gives Reese these dead eyes when Reese is having a particularly dark moment. And in the interrogation room, when the PoI spoke about losing his wife and said "it was the worst day of my life", there was a cut to Reese and in just 1 second his eyes told the story of all the loss he's suffered. And then, later, when Reese said "he doesn't look like a killer", you could just hear the unspoken "unlike me". Aw.

 

But, on a happier note, Reese in flirt mode? Kind of intense, no? When he semi-awkwardly started complimenting Iris I thought he was going to be adorable, and then he made a swift turn to debonair with "stunning, by the way". Mmm. I love how that is progressing. Clearly Iris wants to help him as a therapist, but she also clearly wants something more. And Reese is extremely hard to get close to, so she has her work cut out for her on both levels. Still, Reese is taking some steps and I think it's clear that he's interested as well. And I agree that it was a big step that he finally talked about Jessica. Poor Reese. By the way, when he started talking about it I wondered if we would finally get to find out if he killed Peter or not (man, this one episode referenced about 42328472742 previous episodes in subtle ways). But, of course we didn't. Just like the PoI didn't get to learn the truth about his wife's murder. Such is life.

 

I do hope that last bit, with the (nearly) omniscient Machine, having all the information and only teasing us with it, is foreshadowing. What else is the Machine not telling us? What does she know? What can she use against Samaritan? Let's see.

  • Love 3

Share this post


Link to post

When Iris was trying to get Reese to open up about the grief and he said "I don't think I can do that," I kept thinking he's talking about Carter rather than Jessica.  Before Carter died and she and Reese shared that moment, whatever it was, Carter knew and accepted John for who and what he was.  Jessica could never do that.  She wanted him with her in a quote/unquote normal life and that just is not something that is in John.  

 

I give the ep 3.5 out of 5 -- the PoI/Alicia/Harold stuff seemed just so been there, done that for me.  And yes, Root should've been there, too.  

Share this post


Link to post

On reflection, I liked the tone of the episode, if not the execution. Even without seeing the previews, my wife said to me shortly into the first scene: the doctor's going out and taking care of the people who hurt his patients, isn't he? 

 

It's a different perspective on doing the "right" thing, and taking care of innocent people. This guy is an Equalizer...he is another version of Finch & Reese...and a tragic version of the guy who pretended to be a cop earlier in the season.

 

I think we're meant to get to get many points of view this season: people have to evaluate what they believe, and what they live for, from Control to the annoying nerd girl, to the core characters of Finch, Reese, Lionel and Root. 

 

From the human point of view, there is no ABSOLUTE morality, not everyone who kills someone is a murderer, not everyone who commits a crime is a lost cause, not everyone YOU think is bad is bad. Samaritan doesn't have that insight...the Machine knows far more than we do: far more FACTS. But when it tries to utilize the facts for a moral code, the AI is...only human.

Share this post


Link to post

I was bored to death. Everything felt too old and I don't understand why Fusco and Reese were so sure that guy was the killer. And I missed Root. I'm missing Shaw too, a lot. 

  • Love 4

Share this post


Link to post

 

So you are saying that if I walk into a bank and someone hands me the key for whatever reason, it's pretty much enough to convict me for attempted robbery? Online banking it is then!

If someone called claiming to be your accomplice and described you and ordered the guy to comply (and btw, I think the banker guy was gullible and overly timid), and you walked into the bank angry, spoiling for a fight, and demanding to talk to said banker, and you had an unregistered gun in your bag, and a smoke bomb went off a few seconds after you entered, yeah, you'd have a hard time proving your innocence.  Especially if you had a criminal record.

 

(Yes, at trial the burden of proof is on the government.  But long before then you will want ot convince the police, and then the D.A.'s office, of your innocence.  And at trial you will want to present an alternative theory of the crime to generate reasonable doubt, and "a mysterious stranger somehow framed me for some reason" is not usually a successful argument.)

Edited by beadgirl

Share this post


Link to post

I think Fusco was off in this episode, where he was advocating for the letting the PoI kill the guy he thought killed his wife.  One of the defining moments for Fusco was when he confronted Simmons after Simmons had killed Carter.  He refused to kill Simmons, because Carter had helped him realise that he was a Good Cop and he didn't want to slide back into his previous bad habits.  So to hear him so easily advocate for letting a vigilante kill a suspected murderer was way off.  I think the show is really missing Shaw in that regard - I could easily see her saying that ("this is boring, just let him kill the guy so we can move and go get something to eat").

 

I agree with the people saying Root was sorely missing from this episode.  For a story about people dealing with grief, not having Root there to deal with the loss of Shaw seems like a major missed opportunity.  Even just a small appearance at the end would have been great.  Oh well.

 

I did like seeing Alicia Corwin again though.  We get to see why she was so afraid and paranoid during Season 1, and for that to be because of Harold himself was a great little twist.  Also The Machine doing everything in Her limited ability to prevent him from carrying out murder was great.  That scene where She changed his box from the yellow square to the Red/White "immediate violent threat" was great.

 

Also, did Harold inadvertently cause The Machine to go against one of Her core design principles?  Harold was adamant that The Machine be a closed system, unable to be used to directly target an individual.  That's why She only gives out a number after She alone determines a threat.  But at the end of the episode it almost seemed as if she was directly targeting the suspected murderer, when he hadn't actively done anything to warrant examination.  It was almost as if She was doing that because Harold and Reese were suspect of him...  Is She starting to evolve beyond her core design, sliding a little bit towards the Samaritan way of doing things?  Just a bug in her design that Harold inadvertently exploited?  A rare case of sloppy writing?

Edited by Agent Dark
  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post

 Is She starting to evolve beyond her core design, sliding a little bit towards the Samaritan way of doing things?  Just a bug in her design that Harold inadvertently exploited?  A rare case of sloppy writing?

That's a darn good question, one I suspect the writers will slip the answer to in an upcoming episode.  My initial answer was along the lines that as much as the Machine has changed Root, the influence also goes the other way.  Scary, huh?  

Share this post


Link to post

That's a darn good question, one I suspect the writers will slip the answer to in an upcoming episode.  My initial answer was along the lines that as much as the Machine has changed Root, the influence also goes the other way.  Scary, huh?  

Well, we'll know your answer is correct when we see Shaw get random flirty texts from the Machine ;P

  • Love 3

Share this post


Link to post

(Yes, at trial the burden of proof is on the government.  But long before then you will want ot convince the police, and then the D.A.'s office, of your innocence.  And at trial you will want to present an alternative theory of the crime to generate reasonable doubt, and "a mysterious stranger somehow framed me for some reason" is not usually a successful argument.)

 

But where is the crime? The banker guy says he has reason to believe I came in to rob the bank. Where's his proof? Where is any evidence that any of this is true? OK, suppose the bank records all their incoming calls. All we have is someone, not me, calling to say that I will rob the bank. It's like freaking Minority Report! What did I actually do other than come in looking angry, for which I actually do have an explanation? I think a good lawyer should be able to generate reasonable doubt there.

Share this post


Link to post

How did wheelchair bound Harold secure the bomb underneath Alicia's car?

I liked it because it felt season 1 familiar, but the plot holes were brutal. But give me a micro-flash of Nathan/Brett Cullens and I'll forgive anything.

Share this post


Link to post

Another standalone episode, I see.  At least we got some Finch flashbacks, including the return of Alicia (Elizabeth Marvel!), and Michael Emerson being his normal amazing self.

 

As for the POI of the week: only thing I was off about was I waiting to find out that the POI had actually killed his wife himself all this time, and this was all an elaborate set-up, but I guess it would have really made zero sense that he would become a vigilante, if he was the killer.  Besides that, I saw everything else coming.  Knew Finch would talk him down and everything.  I guess the idea that we really don't know if the delivery guy truly killed her or not, is kind of interesting.

 

Do agree that Reese and Fusco's "Just let him get revenge!" didn't sit right with me.  I might have handwaved Reese for the sake of drama, but I really can't buy Fusco being down with that, considering he managed to stop himself from killing Simmons of all people.

 

I really like Wrenn Schmidt, but I'm just not sure I really like where they are going with Iris.  I see potential there, but I had a bad feeling they're going down the typical love interest route, which just make me happy.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

I think Fusco was off in this episode, where he was advocating for the letting the PoI kill the guy he thought killed his wife.  ...  So to hear him so easily advocate for letting a vigilante kill a suspected murderer was way off.  I think the show is really missing Shaw in that regard....

 

Yup. When Fusco got weird, I threw my best Grishin-from-Relevance impression at him, "Who you supposed to be? Some kind of Sameen Shaw?"  I guess since there was no Shawdition this week, Fusco had to fill in.  (Surely though there must have been a way to involve Fusco in the debate that was truer to his character.)

Edited by DEM
  • Love 4

Share this post


Link to post

But at the end of the episode it almost seemed as if she was directly targeting the suspected murderer, when he hadn't actively done anything to warrant examination.  It was almost as if She was doing that because Harold and Reese were suspect of him...  Is She starting to evolve beyond her core design, sliding a little bit towards the Samaritan way of doing things?  Just a bug in her design that Harold inadvertently exploited?  A rare case of sloppy writing?

 

I believe the machine was curious - an AI has curiosity, too. It might've wondered if he actually did it, as remember, Harold had it wipe its memory every 24 hours - except what was transcribed by the employees of the company the machine managed. So the Machine wouldn't explicitly remember this incident, but it could go back to archival footage and review it to determine whether or not he could have committed the crime.

Share this post


Link to post

But where is the crime? The banker guy says he has reason to believe I came in to rob the bank. Where's his proof? Where is any evidence that any of this is true? OK, suppose the bank records all their incoming calls. All we have is someone, not me, calling to say that I will rob the bank. It's like freaking Minority Report! What did I actually do other than come in looking angry, for which I actually do have an explanation? I think a good lawyer should be able to generate reasonable doubt there.

Maybe a good lawyer would get the framed guy off, maybe not, that's irrelevant. You're looking at things from the perspective of the viewer, as someone that already knows the framed is innocent, not from the perspective of the law, courts, and jury, who don't know he's innocent and have every reason to believe otherwise. The point is the frame up makes it so that the odds are very very stacked against the guy. Look at the entire situation, the banker receives a threatening phone call warning him to give his keycard to a man entering the bank, who comes in obviously spoiling for a fight, demanding to see that same banker. Then a bomb goes off, giving the banker who already has every reason to think this guy is behind it grounds to accuse him, then security arrests the man and finds a gun and blueprints to the bank in the very bag he was carrying, and on top of everything else the guy already has a criminal record. Even if the framed guy does end up getting off, his reputation will no doubt be completely shot, the lawyer fees will kill his bank account, he'll probably lose everything he has, he'll have an even harder time getting a job anywhere than he already does, so win win for the POI either way. I'd say the POI executed that frame up pretty masterfully.

  • Love 3

Share this post


Link to post

 

But where is the crime? The banker guy says he has reason to believe I came in to rob the bank. Where's his proof? Where is any evidence that any of this is true? OK, suppose the bank records all their incoming calls. All we have is someone, not me, calling to say that I will rob the bank. It's like freaking Minority Report! What did I actually do other than come in looking angry, for which I actually do have an explanation? I think a good lawyer should be able to generate reasonable doubt there.

The crime is in the unlicensed gun he had, and the bomb that went off.  Add in the blueprints and the phone call from an apparent accomplice, and the police have a very good case for conspiracy to rob a bank.  immortalfrieza makes a good point when she mentions viewing the crime as the police would.  The vast majority of criminal cases are ordinary and straight-forward, so they are far more likely to believe this guy conspired to rob the bank and then was screwed over by his pal rather than believe that someone came up with an elaborate scheme to frame an apparent stranger* -- occam's razor and all.  And that's not even taking into account the inadequacies, biases, and imperfections of the criminal justice system to begin with.  People are often convicted on circumstantial evidence.   Finally, most alleged criminals claim they are innocent and were framed by the police/someone else, but that rarely results in their freedom.

 

*He'd have a greater chance of success if he could point to a specific person with a specific motive, but that is unlikely here.  Even if it occurs to his attorney to check out the woman he put into a wheel chair, a cursory investigation would show she wasn't involved, and it would take a huge leap of imagination to think her therapist, who has no personal connection to her, did it to help karma along.

Edited by beadgirl

Share this post


Link to post

This episode suffered from bad timining, unfortunately. Q&A and Blunt were rather meh, and this episode's pacing was too slow with a too weak PoI. It would have been better if placed after Guilty. I really don't mind the story refocusing on its character, because, just as much as I love the battle of the Machine vs Samaritan, I still do appreciate when the story doesn't forget about its protagonists and their predicament. The big war is going on, but that doesn't mean routine stops. 

 

I know Reese is considered boring, but I find him more complex than Shaw, that I LOVED and miss dearly, but that I found more entertaining to watch than interesting from a character's POV. Unlike her, he doesn't have a condition that explains the why he is so closed off. And from the therapy sessions, it seems like this character trait was already present before he became CIA. So, yes, I liked the therapy sessions (less fan of the whole flirting though), but also do appreciate that the show stays realistic when it comes to these matters: people don't change overnight, you don't resolve your issues in the span of an episode, and just because you decided to get new habits doesn't mean you'll do it. 

 

I also liked Finch backstory, particularly Emerson's "you have nothing to SAY!", that was chilling. I do wonder if the divergent opinions/reactions of Finch and Reese will lead to further estrangement by the end of the season. I agree though that, despite some nice S1 feels, the show had managed to get an awesome dynamic within the Team, and struggles to find it back with the 3 guys only. Getting a new woman in the Team would be more than welcome, but she would need to be written super well, you don't replace shaw just like that, and you can't bring in a copy either. I suppose (and hope) they are working on a new female character in the background, and that the last 3 episodes were kind of a stalling plan until they manage to do so.

 

Now, I am all ready for the show to get back to the main plot and throw us some seriously packed episodes, with Root getting back. 

Edited by Coxfires
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

I liked this episode.  It reminded me of Season One.

Cross-posting from the media thread, at io9, there's an article/recap, wherein Charlie Jane Anders says the same thing:

 

Person Of Interest Has One Of The Most Heartbreaking Relationships On TV.  From the article:

 

Most of "Karma" felt like a very season one episode — and just like a lot of Person of Interest season one, the interesting part was the flashbacks.

Share this post


Link to post

I keep forgetting to watch this show.  Which is good because now I have less of a wait for the next one.  I liked this episode, even though it was a bit quieter and didn't have much of a twist.  The guy who played the POI was likeable.  For awhile there, I thought he might have killed his own wife and he was covering.  I guessed that his ultimate plan was to kill himself, but figuring that out didn't affect my enjoyment of the episode.  It reminds me that I just like spending time with these characters, even without the fireworks with Wrinkled Face or Mobster Boss the Fifth.

Edited by Camera One

Share this post


Link to post
×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size