Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[johntfs]

52 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I want to be apprehensive about this change in direction,  but I can't.  I was apprehensive about Zari coming and Jax leaving.   That turned out fine.   This show made me love Wally West.   This show gave me Beebo, so they've earned their goodwill. 

All the talk of "betrayals" doesn't really have to mean some silly "heel turn" where Ray and Zari suddenly twirl mustaches going "Mu-hu-ha-ha" now our plans to seize the multiverse can come to fruition!"  Good people can want different good things and come into conflict over that.  Plus, along with the door for Malice/Mallus another door has been opened - the "screw history" door.  The warlords' destruction of Amaya's village was an important historical moment that was altered.  So why not save Zari's brother (and timeline) or Sara's sister or Ray's fiance' or Wally's mother (figure Gideon could cure cancer in a Jif) or Mick's original Snart.  Figure you know damned well that Constantine is going to want to change things to save Astra, the girl he damned.

[BaggythePanther]

On 4/21/2018 at 6:34 AM, Aeryn13 said:

Also, currently the "civil war" on Arrow is atrocious to watch. Noone likes it, pretty much. It has ruined characters and the writers still plow ahead. I hope PK doesn`t see that and think "great storytelling, I want that". 

If anything PK is thinking, “I can do better than that”. And trained monkeys with typewriters could craft a better story than Arrow’s “Civil War” so I’m willing to wait and see how the LoT storyline plays out.

Also, I thought Sara gave Zari the ok to change the timeline and rescue her brother? Is that happening next season or are they just going to forget about it?

[Featherhat]

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:04 AM, BaggythePanther said:

If anything PK is thinking, “I can do better than that”. And trained monkeys with typewriters could craft a better story than Arrow’s “Civil War” so I’m willing to wait and see how the LoT storyline plays out.

Also, I thought Sara gave Zari the ok to change the timeline and rescue her brother? Is that happening next season or are they just going to forget about it?

True, Arrow's hatchet job on their civil war story has made me never want any of the shows to attempt it again. It often also ends up more about plot than characters, which is not what I want for LOT. That said they have earned a certain measure of my at least "wait and see". I guess it's not surprising the Arrowverse does love to reuse plots. Two main characters have been on trial for murder this season, Malcolm Merlyn and Damien Darhk were previously in a race to the bottom to see who was the worse father both sacrificed themselves to save their daughters and earned a last minute "redemption" etc. 

However Legends vs Bureau (Rip) was one of my least favourite plots last season. It was so heavy handed and RIP YOU WERE RIGHT GD DAMN THERE WHEN THEY DID THAT AND STILL GAVE SARA YOUR BLESSING, YOU JUST LEFT 5 MINUTES BEFORE THE DINOSAURS, YOU DON'T GET TO BE AN ASSHOLE ABOUT IT! Ugh, Sorry about that. So potentially watching the Legends fracture won't be fun. Another of my least favourite things was Ray was so often in his own side plots, I guess at least partially because Brandon/Courtney are married so Ray potentially "going darker" because of Nora or something else also doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. 

I've already said my worries about Constantine etc. 

But again, the show has definitely earned asking me to give it a chance before I loose interest/hope in next season. Also often what PK has said off season doesn't show up in the same way during the season, or at all. 

[Starfish35]

From TVLine:

Quote

Any word on how Constantine will fit into Legends of Tomorrow next season? —Greg
The more pressing question may be how he fits into the Waverider, if at all. “I don’t know if I want to see John Constantine actually having to live on the ship, because he seems a little cooler than that,” says Legends EP Phil Klemmer. “I like the idea that he’s a bit of a lone wolf, so we’ll have to figure out where exactly he’s going to live. Like, what would his room even look like? I think he’s a bit too cool for school [to live on the Waverider], in a good way.”

Source: Matt's Inside Line

[darkestboy]

I have to admit, it would be odd actually seeing Constantine on the Waverider in the long term. 

I wouldn't be surprised if even as a regular that he won't be in every episode. 

[Miss Dee]

I agree. I think the "regular" status is to secure his availability, not to put him front and centre.

[Miss Dee]

So now that we know the season is based on fugitives from the mythical realm, this is how I see the "civil war" happening:

Constantine is adamant *all* these creatures have to go back - no exceptions. He's seen too much to afford exceptions. The human world can't take the chance.

Nora, on the other hand, considers herself a "fugitive" of sorts and is just as adamant that the more benign creatures making it across the barrier don't deserve to be trapped forever with monsters the likes of Mallus.

Cue the Legends taking sides on the issue, and you have your civil war and the potential for "betrayal" - possibly in the eye of the beholder only, if that.

That'd be gut wrenching to watch, but as much as I love my happy little show I'm also in for any well done gut wrenching. Just as long as we get a happy ending...that's how fairy tales work, right? Right?

[Sakura12]

20 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

That'd be gut wrenching to watch, but as much as I love my happy little show I'm also in for any well done gut wrenching. Just as long as we get a happy ending...that's how fairy tales work, right? Right?

It depends on if they going with the original stories or the Disneyfied ones. The originals ones were to teach lessons and most of those did not have happy endings. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Sakura12

[lurker22]

6 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

It depends on if they going with the original stories or the Disneyfied ones. The originals ones were to teach lessons and most of those did not have happy endings. 

Nate should know how the original stories go, just like how he dressed like a leper in the Camelot 3000 episode. I want to see him shattering the Legends' (probably mostly Ray's) Disneyfied ideas of these stories, lol.

[Proteus]

After defeating the demon Mallus by cuddling him to death with a giant stuffed animal named Beebo, the Legends are ready to ease off the gas. Sara (Caity Lotz) and her team join Ava Sharpe (Jes Macallan) and the Time Bureau to help clean up the last few remaining anachronisms. The job seems straightforward enough until Constantine (Matt Ryan) arrives to inform them that, in solving one major problem, they have created another, much larger one. When the Legends let time crumble in order to release and defeat Mallus, the barrier between worlds softened. History is now infected with “Fugitives” – magical creatures from myths, fairytales, and legends. Having been expelled throughout time by people like Constantine, these Fugitives are now returning to our world in droves and making a real mess of things. As the Time Bureau is distrustful of and ill-equipped to deal with magic, the Legends must team up with everyone’s favorite demonologist to set history back on track. Sara and Constantine are joined by compassionate inventor Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh), hotheaded ex-con Mick Rory (Dominic Purcell), rebellious totem-bearer Zari (Tala Ashe), and heartbroken historian-turned-superhero Nate (Nick Zano) as they set out to save the world – and their legacy. It’s the familiar fun of the Legends time-travelling across historical events and encountering famous figures with an added shot of magical craziness! Based on the characters from DC, DC’S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW is from Bonanza Productions Inc. in association with Berlanti Productions and Warner Bros. Television, with executive producers Greg Berlanti (“Arrow,” “The Flash,” “Supergirl”), Phil Klemmer (“The Tomorrow People,” “Chuck”) and Sarah Schechter (“Arrow,” “The Flash”).

SOURCE: 

CW

So with this write up, I wonder if Constantine will be like a second in command to Sara.

I really like the set up of what the Legends and Bureau will be dealing with next season.

I wonder if we'll get creatures like Dracula. I'm intrigued about where they go with this.

[Sakura12]

Well I suppose with the demons they'd have to refer to Constantine since that's his deal. I just hope Sara's still the one giving the orders. But I'm also wondering since they lost Rip they are going to use Constantine as his replacement. Meaning the conflict they wanted with Rip and Sara as Captains will now be with John. 

They kind of already did vampires. So maybe they should tackle werewolves or mummies. 

[lurker22]

I guess Sara and Constantine will have differing opinions on how to deal with the magical fugitives, and since Constantine is the demonologist, he would think his way is the best way. I hope we don't get a whole season of fighting between the two, because I liked seeing them as friends. They really are the only 2 people on the ship who understand each other on a deeper level, and I would rather they build on that instead.

I remember we thought Rip would be the time expert, while Sara would still lead the team. I would prefer this arrangement between Sara and Constantine.

[MarkHB]

I'm really hoping that some of DC's other mystical characters will appear.  The Spectre is probably too much to really ask for as he pretty much negates all the storytelling potential (depending on the version, he's somewhere between merely being the magical power level equivalent of Superman, or he's the actual incarnation of divine justice), but I would love to see Etrigan in live action.

And, in case any of you don't go to the Arrow forums or otherwise haven't seen it, the crossover is introducing Batwoman and Gotham City.

[lurker22]

Spoiler

I'm hoping Quentin's death will affect Sara in the beginning of the LoT season. I doubt she's going to try to save him through time travel, but I hope to see some consequences of it. Like she's being more reckless than usual, or throwing herself into her work and secretly fighting the magical fugitives alone after the Legends have called it a day. And I want to see someone notice this and try to talk to her about it. Preferably Ray. It'll probably be Ava, but I'm more interested in seeing another Legend talk to her. Ray knows both Quentin and Laurel, and he hardly gets to have any scenes with Sara. He tried unsuccessfully in the S2 premiere to talk to Sara, and I'm hoping he tries again.

Edited May 18, 2018 by lurker22

[darkestboy]

Where the hell is Wally? I really hope we're not losing him and if we're not, then why isn't he on that poster with everyone else?

Sara and Constantine leading two factions in relation to the Fugitives could be interesting but I really hope they avoid the pitfalls Arrow had with the OTA and NTA, which was mostly tedious to sit through.

I'm betting we see the likes of Felix Faust, the Spectre and/or Papa Midnite at least in guest roles in Season 4. 

Nora and Kuasa are likely to materialise again too, especially the former.

[Proteus]

Why would Sara & Constantine lead opposing teams though? I'm not seeing any reason to believe there will be any type of team split.

[shantown]

Where did this whole LoT Civil War speculation come from? Is it just because Marvel had a Civil War movie and Arrow did a similar storyline? Or was there an actual article or spoiler that pointed to it?

[Starfish35]

There was a Klemmer interview (maybe more than one) where he talked about some of the Avengers Legends "breaking bad"/going dark side next season.  I think the discussion evolved from there into the "civil war" thing because of what happened on Arrow this season.

[lurker22]

I think the "betrayal"/"Civil War" speculation came from this TVLine spoiler given by Klemmer shortly after the season finale in Apr. There were also the "breaking bad" interviews like @Starfish35 mentioned.

Quote

Question: Big fan of Legends of Tomorrow Season 3. Anything to share yet about next season? –Leo
Ausiello: If you love the Waverider’s “found family,” brace yourself for some arguments at the proverbial dinner table. “I think we’re ready to maybe have some real betrayal within the ranks of the Legends,” says Phil Klemmer, who next season will serve as sole showrunner. “Things have gotten really tranquil, so next season I do want the Legends to sort of turn against their own. And I don’t want these to be cosmetic plot shifts, I want them to have consequences that will be lasting and that will affect the DNA of the show.”

[shantown]

Thank you for the info, @Starfish35 and @lurker22!

[scarynikki12]

We've discussed and here's how we're going to handle the question of if spoiler tags should be used with regard to other shows in this thread.  If you're going to speculate as to what, if any, story influence recent events from the other Arrowverse shows will have on the next season of LOT, use spoiler tags.  When the show goes back into production later this summer, and we start getting word that events from the other shows ARE going to have an influence on the next season of LOT, no spoiler tags will be needed.  At that point they will officially be LOT spoilers so they will be appropriate for the spoiler thread and tags won't be necessary.  If anyone isn't caught up on the other shows at that time, enter the thread aware that you may get spoiled for those shows.

Thanks

[Proteus]

On May 19, 2018 at 12:49 AM, lurker22 said:

I think the "betrayal"/"Civil War" speculation came from this TVLine spoiler given by Klemmer shortly after the season finale in Apr. There were also the "breaking bad" interviews like @Starfish35 mentioned.

Even with that, I'm not getting a big Civil War type team split.

[kirinan]

Looks like Wally won't be back as a regular next season. (Not sure if this is really a spoiler, but better safe, I figured.)

Edited June 5, 2018 by kirinan

[Princess Lucky]

18 minutes ago, kirinan said:

Looks like Wally won't be back as a regular next season. (Not sure if this is really a spoiler, but better safe, I figured.)

Noooo!

How will I live?

How will Nate live? First he loses Amaya, now he loses Wally, and (total speculation but) Ray might possibly turn evil? And his other buddy Damien Darhk is gone as well?

Mick and Zari better step up. Nate is always such a supportive friend, he's going to need some love from his remaining besties.

[Proteus]

Wow, horrible news.

[shantown]

Ugh, what a bummer. I really like Wally and Keiynan Lonsdale. I think it's a blow to the show too, he would have been good at filling the "little brother" role left vacant after Jax.

[Miss Dee]

That's disappointing. I've heard it's because he wants to concentrate on his singing career...but still.

[Proteus]

14 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

That's disappointing. I've heard it's because he wants to concentrate on his singing career...but still.

Where did you hear that?

[Miss Dee]

Just speculation on TV Line and Spoiler TV.

[Starfish35]

I have to think it was his choice, for whatever reason.  I don’t think they would have brought him on like they did last season, just to unceremoniously dump him like this.  And he was on that panel recently with GB, CL, and others.  It just sounds to me like he decided he wanted to do other things, not something they planned, especially since it doesn’t really sound like he’s returning to The Flash either.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Starfish35

[Maelstrom]

Damn, that sucks. Why bother bringing him on at all, especially after dumping Jax so unceremoniously? I’m really sorry to hear this.

[darkestboy]

Keiynan has posted about his departure ....

[Maelstrom]

I’m glad that at least it was his choice, and I wish him all the best, but I’m still disappointed to lose him from LoT.  :(

[Proteus]

I'm glad it was his choice. I figured it had to be. As long as I have Sara, Ava, Mick, & Zari I'm good. But I still hate losing Wally.

[Sakura12]

I was kind of expecting this since that's the reason KL took off so much from the Flash, he wanted to pursue other projects (ie his music). I was more surprised when they said he was going to be a regular on LoT. I am glad that he's open to come back so they are not killing him off. 

That does leave an opening for another character, pleasedon'tbeLaurelpleasedon'tbeLaurel. 

[legaleagle53]

9 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I was kind of expecting this since that's the reason KL took off so much from the Flash, he wanted to pursue other projects (ie his music). I was more surprised when they said he was going to be a regular on LoT. I am glad that he's open to come back so they are not killing him off. 

That does leave an opening for another character, pleasedon'tbeLaurelpleasedon'tbeLaurel. 

Well, since the show is apparently going to put more emphasis on myths and legends in the upcoming season, I'd say that Helen of Troy would be an excellent addition. I mean, if anyone would know anything about myths and legends, she would.

[Starfish35]

10 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

pleasedon'tbeLaurelpleasedon'tbeLaurel

Oh don’t even put that out there *shudders* 

[Proteus]

11 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I was kind of expecting this since that's the reason KL took off so much from the Flash, he wanted to pursue other projects (ie his music). I was more surprised when they said he was going to be a regular on LoT. I am glad that he's open to come back so they are not killing him off. 

That does leave an opening for another character, pleasedon'tbeLaurelpleasedon'tbeLaurel. 

I now think that's a huge possibility since we have a vacant seat on the Waverider.

 

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

Well, since the show is apparently going to put more emphasis on myths and legends in the upcoming season, I'd say that Helen of Troy would be an excellent addition. I mean, if anyone would know anything about myths and legends, she would.

I'd love that. Helen was awesome.

 

This message from Brandon sounds like he's confirming Wally will be back for some episodes of Legends:

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Proteus

[Starfish35]

I do like Helen quite a lot, but even without her, I can think of a long list of characters I’d rather have on the Waverider than Black Siren.  *shudders again*  About the only character I’d be less willing to have around is Vandal Savage.

Hey, that makes me think - what about Nora Darhk?  She might be an interesting addition.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Starfish35

[Starfish35]

18 minutes ago, Proteus said:

This message from Brandon sounds like he's confirming Wally will be back for some episodes of Legends:

Oh that’s interesting.  I’m glad - they’d just made it sound like he was completely done with Legends.

[legaleagle53]

8 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Oh that’s interesting.  I’m glad - they’d just made it sound like he was completely done with Legends.

Well, they do have to set up his departure somehow.

 

8 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I do like Helen quite a lot, but even without her, I can think of a long list of characters I’d rather have on the Waverider than Black Siren.  *shudders again*  About the only character I’d be less willing to have around is Vandal Savage.

Hey, that makes me think - what about Nora Darhk?  She might be an interesting addition.

Nora would also be interesting, and I know that Brandon and Courtney have a lot of fun in their scenes together (Brandon once said that they bring a lot of little things from their real-life marriage into the way Ray and Nora play off each other onscreen).

[scarynikki12]

I don’t expect Siren to become a Legend for one simple reason: Katie Cassidy. She seems to be particularly attached to Arrow so I can’t see her agreeing to be a regular on another show in the verse. We may see Siren guest star if LOT wants to continue the Quentin insanity with Sara (please don’t) but that’d be it. 

[Starfish35]

From Matt’s Inside Line:

Quote

Anything on Legends of Tomorrow? —Diane
I think I have one last bit left from my most recent interview with EP Phil Klemmer. Having previously discussed Constantine’s living arrangements as well as the threat of team infighting, he also said that this is on the Season 4 wish list: “We’ve never actually figured out the world of the Time Bureau, so I want to actually take another swing at that.”

Edited June 7, 2018 by Starfish35

[Proteus]

On June 7, 2018 at 12:43 AM, Starfish35 said:

I do like Helen quite a lot, but even without her, I can think of a long list of characters I’d rather have on the Waverider than Black Siren.  *shudders again*  About the only character I’d be less willing to have around is Vandal Savage.

Hey, that makes me think - what about Nora Darhk?  She might be an interesting addition.

BR said his wife is coming back so I assume we'll be seeing a lot of Nora.

 

16 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

From Matt’s Inside Line:

Good news. The more Time Bureau and Ava, the better.

[BaggythePanther]

On 6/6/2018 at 12:34 PM, Sakura12 said:

I was kind of expecting this since that's the reason KL took off so much from the Flash, he wanted to pursue other projects (ie his music). I was more surprised when they said he was going to be a regular on LoT. I am glad that he's open to come back so they are not killing him off. 

That does leave an opening for another character, pleasedon'tbeLaurelpleasedon'tbeLaurel. 

Am I racist for assuming that they’d replace him with another black guy? 

 

I would have loved for Thea to join but I guess that’s out of the question.

[Maverick]

 It's not a bad idea.   Arrow was the home of magic and mysticism in the Arrowverse until Legends starting horning in.  And an archer is too hard on the SFX budget.

[Proteus]

On June 11, 2018 at 6:08 PM, BaggythePanther said:

Am I racist for assuming that they’d replace him with another black guy? 

 

I would have loved for Thea to join but I guess that’s out of the question.

I had that same hope but I think Willa & the Arrowverse PTB are both done with eachother.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Proteus

[Proteus]

According to this tweet it looks like Ray may be a Legend breaking bad:

https://mobile.twitter.com/plinys/status/1008036297552908288

Matt Ryan says Constantine will be in every episode next season:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TREKZONEorg/status/1007817781255987200

Edited June 17, 2018 by Proteus

[Miss Dee]

*sigh*

[Solace247]

On June 17, 2018 at 4:22 PM, Proteus said:

According to this tweet it looks like Ray may be a Legend breaking bad:

https://mobile.twitter.com/plinys/status/1008036297552908288

Matt Ryan says Constantine will be in every episode next season:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TREKZONEorg/status/1007817781255987200

I hope Ray sees some consequences. His choices this season, whilst good, always endangered people yet always worked out.