S10.E02: Jessa Says Yes to the Dress

[Vaysh]

Jessa is looking very pretty in those wedding pictures posted above and the dress is lovely, but her size makes her look almost like a little girl playing dress-up. Jill's dress made her look more grown-up and mature, but Jessa is so tiny she actually looks younger here than she normally does.

 

I didn't know Jill was as tall as 5'7"! Have they all stated their heights?

[Betweenyouandme]

Eh, I'll have to agree to disagree. The medical community still uses BMI as a tool within reason. Of course, a 300 lb man with solid muscle has different physical implications than a man the same ht/wt who's never worked out. And, we obviously have much different views on how Jessa appears to us. I'm going by what I see and what I know for myself since I'm also 5'5 with a small frame. Jessa does not appear wildly out of the norm either by weight nor body composition to me. Like it or not, I've been inpatient for anorexia 5 times, and they very much used BMI results at each facility. I can't see my doctors looking at Jessa and thinking BMI would say less about her than the majority of people who go in and out of their facilities constantly. I've used the line "but I have a small frame" as an excuse for my weight to my doctors. Did they care? Absolutely not. It's not a perfect system. But, it's what we have.

And, let me be clear. I do not think Jessa is big at all. I think she's on the very low end of healthy. That's very slender.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[floridamom]

Didn't Randy at Kleinfeld say that sample sizes come in basically one size? If I remember correctly I think the sample size is 10or 12; the full figure samples come in size 22....there is no way IMO, that Jessa's gown was a sample that the store happened to have. Her waist looked so small; especially against her bust, that gown had already been made for HER....she merely went to pick it up. I call baloney on "just happened to be there". TLC must think we are dopes because we watch Say Yes To the Dress too,, also a TLC show....which gives out bridal info every episode...

[Sew Sumi]

Jessa is looking very pretty in those wedding pictures posted above and the dress is lovely, but her size makes her look almost like a little girl playing dress-up. Jill's dress made her look more grown-up and mature, but Jessa is so tiny she actually looks younger here than she normally does.

 

I didn't know Jill was as tall as 5'7"! Have they all stated their heights?

One of the old specials stated the kids' heights. At the time, Smuggar was around 17 and at his full height of 6'. Jill would have been 14, and at the time was listed at 5' 6.5". Jessa, around 12 1/2, must have been in the middle of her growth spurt; she was "five foot two, eyes of...hazel." (Yes, I remember that...*hangs head in shame*). 

[floridamom]

For the record, I'll give my two cents worth on Jessa's recent weight....I also thought she had intentionally lost weight before the wedding and I think she didn't need to in the first place. I think she lost too much and was looking pretty bad before her ceremony...I think most of these types of people have weight issues as they have to stay within that attractive, slim and slender frame to catch and keep their husbands....isn't that what Gothard said?

[mccav]

My daughter was married last year. Based on our recent bridal shop experiences, the sample dresses she tried on were mostly size 10. She is right under 5'6" / 120 lbs and usually wears a 2 or 4 in mall sizes. All of the bridal gowns she tried on had to be clipped in the back to fit. When she picked one and we were placing the order, the consultant said that that particular size chart showed her borderline 6/8; we crossed our fingers and went with the 6. It came in fitting almost perfectly, only needing a minor bodice adjustment.

Based on all of that, I think it's highly unlikely (but not impossible) that Jessa's dress of choice would have fit her that perfectly on the day they were out trying on dresses, unless they keep 4's and 6's in stock at that shop. That was not our experience at the many bridal shops we visited in a major metropolitan area.

[Jynnan tonnix]

Was going to take this over to the prayer closet since it's only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but felt bad intruding into the "Maisie" thread (which I am loving and feeling almost honored to be a part of), so I came back here.

 

Jessa was SUPER skinny before the wedding. I imagine she was about a wedding dress 4. I was an 8 and weighed all of 105 lbs. (110 max, it's been 21 years since I bought the thing). I bet she bought the dress ahead of time, just like she booked the church, and as has been posited here, this "shopping" excursion was all for show.

 

Speaking of time and sizes (and the differences in formal sizing which may or may not exist anymore; I don't know).

 

When I got married 30 years ago, I think I wore something like a size 7. I was (and am still)  5'3" tall and weighed a little under 110 lb. However, the formal sizes ran about a size smaller, and I believe my wedding gown was a size 9.

I gained about 60 lb with my first baby, and it wasn't until after I had my second that I eventually managed to lose most of it and got down to about 125 lb. I think I still wore about the same size, though.

 

After my third baby I managed to pretty much hold steady weight-wise until about six years later when I ballooned up to a size 16 at about 170 lb. I managed to get back down to about 140, and found I was wearing about a size 8-10...not that different from the 7-9 I'd worn at 30 lb less, though I hadn't a hope of actually fitting into those same clothes anymore.

 

Now I'm at about 190-200 (yes, I know...disgraceful, and I need to do something about it), and find that I can wear most clothes marked at a size 18 (only one size bigger than I'd worn at 170) and, in fact, most of the pants I've bought lately have been marked as a size 16.

 

If the industry keeps this up, I'll be back in a size 8 in a few more years without having to lose any more weight.

 

Edited to add, I don't feel so bad anymore since I started writing this post much earlier and hadn't realized much of the talk had turned to weights and sizes in general anyway since I finished writing it.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Jynnan tonnix

[Betweenyouandme]

Was going to take this over to the prayer closet since it's only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but felt bad intruding into the "Maisie" thread (which I am loving and feeling almost honored to be a part of), so I came back here.

Speaking of time and sizes (and the differences in formal sizing which may or may not exist anymore; I don't know).

When I got married 30 years ago, I think I wore something like a size 7. I was (and am still) 5'3" tall and weighed a little under 110 lb. However, the formal sizes ran about a size smaller, and I believe my wedding gown was a size 9.

I gained about 60 lb with my first baby, and it wasn't until after I had my second that I eventually managed to lose most of it and got down to about 125 lb. I think I still wore about the same size, though.

After my third baby I managed to pretty much hold steady weight-wise until about six years later when I ballooned up to a size 16 at about 170 lb. I managed to get back down to about 140, and found I was wearing about a size 8-10...not that different from the 7-9 I'd worn at 30 lb less, though I hadn't a hope of actually fitting into those same clothes anymore.

Now I'm at about 190-200 (yes, I know...disgraceful, and I need to do something about it), and find that I can wear most clothes marked at a size 18 (only one size bigger than I'd worn at 170) and, in fact, most of the pants I've bought lately have been marked as a size 16.

If the industry keeps this up, I'll be back in a size 8 in a few more years without having to lose any more weight.

Edited to add, I don't feel so bad anymore since I started writing this post much earlier and hadn't realized much of the talk had turned to weights and sizes in general anyway since I finished writing it.

You're not disgraceful. Thank you for sharing.

[Sew Sumi]

Vanity sizing is insane, and insanely inconsistent! Depending on the store, I'm anywhere from a 4 to 10 in pants, and XS to M in tops. Being short, big-boned, and curvy is pretty much the trifecta of cursed. Don't get me started on trying to find petite sizing! 

 

At any rate, I think we can all agree that Jessa was too thin last year. Her wedding pics looked great. The ballgown did a great job of hiding the extent of her thinness - including the boned top which gave her a couple inches of bust. The only pics that were not so hot were the ones that showed her bony lantern-jaw from the side, and the upshots they did while sitting on a couch that also didn't flatter her face structure. When she had that extra 10 lbs., her face wasn't nearly as severe, or as I called it before, pretty much gaunt with sunken cheekbones. :/

 

MMV, of course. :)

[Betweenyouandme]

I loved Jessa's dress. I can't honestly say the same about her wedding ideas, but thankfully, it didn't affect me. Except I really want some ice cream, and it's too icy now to get any.

I still wish I could see her dress in person. Is it tan? Is it pink? Was that ever solved?

[Sew Sumi]

It was pale blush. Very pretty color. 

(edited because the sentence posted twice...spooky!) :D

 

edited again because I want to brag. I went to the website of the dress company that did Jill's dress (I picked that dress, but in the MODEST style that wouldn't have needed alterations). I knew Jessa would go with a ballgown, and only dismissed the dress she picked because I thought it might be a bit too blingy for her. Close up, it was very detailed with the pearls and crystals. I went with something a bit quieter, but still ballgown in a color that wasn't white (it's been a while, but I went with something more ivory/off-white). I was both shocked and happy that she chose that dress. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Sew Sumi]

http://www.allurebridals.com/products/m503

 

This is the dress I thought she'd go with when my friends and I contemplated this last summer/early fall. She could have rocked this, too. 

[BitterApple]

I think Jessa went on some sort of extreme diet for her wedding and took things too far. She was always petite, but now her skin looks saggy and her feautures are too sharp. I actually think she's become less attractive in this past year.

I also don't believe Jill is 5'7." I'm 5'7" and look considerably taller in pictures and video than she does. Of course I don't bury myself in frumpy floor length skirts, but still...

[Betweenyouandme]

http://www.allurebridals.com/products/m503

This is the dress I thought she'd go with when my friends and I contemplated this last summer/early fall. She could have rocked this, too.

I think that's very, very pretty. Yes, I agree she would have looked great in that, too.

[trimthatfat]

Jessa's dress is stunning, IMO. It was much different than I expected...the right touch of bling and girlishness.

 

I think Jessa looks fine at the weight she is. She has never appeared unhealthy or gaunt to me.

[msblossom]

I think Jessa went on some sort of extreme diet for her wedding and took things too far. She was always petite, but now her skin looks saggy and her feautures are too sharp. I actually think she's become less attractive in this past year.

I also don't believe Jill is 5'7." I'm 5'7" and look considerably taller in pictures and video than she does. Of course I don't bury myself in frumpy floor length skirts, but still...

Jill doesn't have the best posture. Good posture makes a big difference believe it or not.

Jessa's dress is stunning, IMO. It was much different than I expected...the right touch of bling and girlishness.

 

I think Jessa looks fine at the weight she is. She has never appeared unhealthy or gaunt to me.

I agree. She looked fantastic in it and I'm so glad she did "her". It was the perfect dress for Jessa.

[Sew Sumi]

Jill has only really started to stretch herself out since she got together with Derick who's what? 6'3"? 

 

How tall is Ben? I never see him with Boob, Smugs, or the Pigboys, so it's really hard to tell. I'm guessing about 5'10"? There doesn't seem to be quite the height difference between him and Jessa as with Derick and Jill. Did anyone ever see Jessa's feet in any of the wedding pictures? I hope she didn't go barefoot like Jill. Especially in November! That said, I doubt she rocked awesome fuschia hooker heels like Alyssa Bates did. Those shoes were awesome! 

[Absolom]

I'm pretty sure Jessa wasn't in a 2 wedding gown sizing.  My daughter had a 2 slightly taken in a couple of spots a bit over a year ago, and was much tinier than Jessa.  I'm guessing the gown Jessa wore was a 6 the same as another daughter who married a few years ago, and then Jessa's was probably taken in a bit in the waist.  Daughter had a corsette back as she needed a 6 in the bust and a 4 everywhere else.  It avoided expensive alterations.  

 

Yes the samples are usually a 10 with a few 12s thrown in.  Some stores do carry off the rack gowns.  Jessa's looked new though.

[floridamom]

If most of the bridal samples are sizes 6-8, a vast majority of the brides that come in would not even be able to get in the sample to see if they like it in the first place...they are stocked larger for that reason...so it adds up , to me, that Jessa's "perfectly fitting, perfect" gown was already ordered for her some time ago.

[drafan]

At any rate, I think we can all agree that Jessa was too thin last year.

Nope, not agreeing. After I saw Jill and Jessa try on the 'mermaid' type gowns, I think they are what they call (at my gym) 'skinny-fat". They have the scrawny upper-body and then the doughy hips and thighs, probably from lack of exercise. Now that they're wearing shorter skirts, I see that their legs don't look that small either. I know the TV adds 10 lbs, or so they say, but they are still small pears.

 

That being said, Jessa picked the perfect gown for her. I thought it was beautiful. Style, color, everything. And I bet she chose it herself, without all the fake input from the womenfolk. Bet she just took Jinger when she really bought it.

[msblossom]

Jill has only really started to stretch herself out since she got together with Derick who's what? 6'3"?

How tall is Ben? I never see him with Boob, Smugs, or the Pigboys, so it's really hard to tell. I'm guessing about 5'10"? There doesn't seem to be quite the height difference between him and Jessa as with Derick and Jill. Did anyone ever see Jessa's feet in any of the wedding pictures? I hope she didn't go barefoot like Jill. Especially in November! That said, I doubt she rocked awesome fuschia hooker heels like Alyssa Bates did. Those shoes were awesome!

Oh, I have zero doubts that Jill likes to get on her tippy-toes to aaanna-smooch on Derick. She's got the aaanna-smooch down pat and it's just as gross as when Anna does it. She still has bad posture.

If Ben is even 5'9" I'd be surprised. He looks like he's about 5'8". Not dissing his height, but he looks compact, but not out of proportion next to Jessa who mostly wears flats.

Edited March 1, 2015 by msblossom

[GEML]

I was also glad to see Jessa put on a couple of pounds post wedding. You could see how tight her skin was around her mouth and eyes. That's not healthy for a girl in her twenties.

[Barb23]

Thanks Drafan about the "skinny fat" or small pear description. I've noticed that all along with Jill. There's a shot in the wedding episode where there is a rear view of her & Derick walking down the hall & you can definitely tell Jill has larger hips compared to her thinner upper body.

[andromeda331]

That being said, Jessa picked the perfect gown for her. I thought it was beautiful. Style, color, everything.

 

 

Me too. It looked really nice on her.

[farmgal4]

I just rewatched the epi and I think Derick tossed gum into the bushes. However the way he flicked it like a cigarette makes me wonder if he was a smoker at one point.

I think Derick and Jill are happy but her clinginess will eventually get on his nerves if she doesn't find something else to occupy her time. I don't know how much more buddy time poor James can take.

No worries, by the fifth or sixth child in the space of six years, she'll have plenty to occupy her time.

[cereality]

Finally got around to seeing last week's episode -- it's pathetic that Guinn had more emotion re Jessa trying on dresses than her own mom did. She wiped away tears a few times. And at the end when the dress was chosen, all Michelle said was her standard line about it being so special/precious, while Guinn said -- that dress is Jessa, it has clean lines, the beading is so elegant etc.

 

As for grandkids -- I think Guinn and her husband are fundie crazy too, but I think the economic reality for the family is more what is typical for fundies who don't have TLC paychecks rolling in. Her husband was in the prefab home business which I think went under with the recession and now works like 70 hrs a week at windshield repair to support a family. I think they fully understand that a 19 yr old without an education, a trade, or military commitment should not be actively making babies; if God "blesses" them then fine -- but if God doesn't for a while bc their son is withdrawing or if the couple is doing NFP and avoiding Jessa's fertile time or whatever -- that's also fine.

[msblossom]

Yeah Ben's dad, Michael, I think dances on the edges of fundamentalism and is a hardcore Hyper-Calvinist. From what I've read on his blog he strikes me as an extreme exclusivist and seems almost hateful to those outside his belief system. He lacks mercy and grace, and comes off quite arrogant. This very much concerns me bc I believe he makes a strong impression on Ben and Jessa. I hope they listen less to his intolerance and more to striving for a hard work ethic and approach childbearing s-l-o-w-l-y.

[Micks Picks]

This talk about hips is bumming me out.  I don't have a butt.  I bought 3 pairs of pants 2 days ago and they seemed ok in the waist and legs.  But it only took an hour or so of wearing for them to start falling down.  Badly, even with a belt on.  I don't have to undo my jeans to take them off or put them on.  I'm convinced it's because of nothing in the rear end.  I wouldn't want a Kardashian behind, but gee...

[Betweenyouandme]

Yeah, as you can sort of see in my profile picture, I've got zero curves...except, ahem, a new operation to my upper part not present in that picture. Anyway, I like the Duggar girls' body shapes. Not that it matters, but it is harder to keep pants up unless they're super tight. Even a belt won't work unless there's a hole in exactly the right spot, or I make my own hole, which then the tight belt digs into my hip bone. I don't see any of the girls too often pulling up their skirts as if they might fall down. That must be nice to have a defined waist.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[HelenaBeat]

Sorry, this is a bit off topic.....

I was homeschooled and let me just say, they are not accurate representations of real homeschoolers. I was ahead of most of my peers in English and literature, in math, well, I sucked but I certainly wasn't learning multiplication at 13. The way subjects are taught is different though, and it may seem like we're not learning as much because of the way we learn, but I remember more from school than my friends that went to school, and so does my fiancée (homeschooled as well). My friends that went to private school remember more from school than my friend thatwent to public school. Oh just in case you're wondering, these are all childhood friends from my church.

Edited March 19, 2015 by HelenaBeat

[GEML]

There's huge diversity in homeschooling, private schooling and public schooling. I wouldn't want to make any generalizations about a many group based upon any small sample.

[Barb23]

Getting a little off topic, I have a question about homeschooling. I've heard of co-ops that children attend. In the one I was reading about, 3 homeschooled girls that were friends went to a once a week co-op. They were doing speeches on types of literature. Can someone explain more about the co-ops? Are they class specific? (Science, math etc)

[Wellfleet]

Getting a little off topic, I have a question about homeschooling. I've heard of co-ops that children attend. In the one I was reading about, 3 homeschooled girls that were friends went to a once a week co-op. They were doing speeches on types of literature. Can someone explain more about the co-ops? Are they class specific? (Science, math etc)

 

It's my understanding that homeschooling co-ops consist of several families, at least two obviously, who team up and trade off on different areas. I'm a teacher and what I mostly encounter in my area is that maybe one mom is especially competent in art, for example, or math - and handles some or all of that for the group. Maybe in other groups a mom handles a particular age most of the time - junior-high kids maybe - or whatever. Different adults all using their best skills to best advantage, is what I mostly hear...

[Darknight]

Getting a little off topic, I have a question about homeschooling. I've heard of co-ops that children attend. In the one I was reading about, 3 homeschooled girls that were friends went to a once a week co-op. They were doing speeches on types of literature. Can someone explain more about the co-ops? Are they class specific? (Science, math etc)

Well I can't speak for all coops but my coops has classes like literature, journalism, photography, biology, public speaking, chess, accounting, economics volunteer opportunities, field trips, etc. It's not really specific, at least for me anyway. My girls attend twice a week. The literature class is taught be a former nyc public school teacher. The economics class is taught by a college professor.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Darknight

[HelenaBeat]

There's huge diversity in homeschooling, private schooling and public schooling. I wouldn't want to make any generalizations about a many group based upon any small sample.

Fair enough. But even still, MOST homeschoolers at the very least are in the right grade, not learning simple multiplication at age 13, which was truly my only point. I was just mentioning public schools because I don't like paying taxes for public schools to teach someone else's children, nor do I agree with the way those children are taught. However, I'm not judging anyone for send their kids to a public school. I went to a public school for a year because my parents couldn't afford to homeschool or private school.

[GEML]

Well, having grown up fundamentalist with a lot of ties to that world, I know an awful lot of stories about kids who were severely undereducated from homeschooling and private schooling. I also grew up knowing a lot of people who were abused and because they were outside of the public system their families got away with it.

But I wouldn't want these personal stories to color my view of either homeschooling or private schools. But public schools have been the access for millions of poverty stricken people into the middle class and beyond. That's MY family's personal story, and it seems a small price for me to now pay for other people to have the same opportunity that my family did.

Edited March 20, 2015 by GEML

[maraleia]

Let's move on from this schooling conversation. I can see it getting heated very soon and this isn't the place to discuss the merits of public vs private vs homeschooling.

[HelenaBeat]

Well, having grown up fundamentalist with a lot of ties to that world, I know an awful lot of stories about kids who were severely undereducated from homeschooling and private schooling. I also grew up knowing a lot of people who were abused and because they were outside of the public system their families got away with it.

But I wouldn't want these personal stories to color my view of either homeschooling or private schools. But public schools have been the access for millions of poverty stricken people into the middle class and beyond. That's MY family's personal story, and it seems a small price for me to now pay for other people to have the same opportunity that my family did.

I'm so sorry! If I offended you I'm sorry about that too. I should shut up now, but I think everyone's experiences are different with schools you just have to find what works best for you. Sorry again! Edited March 20, 2015 by HelenaBeat

[Apple Clark]

I wonder if Jill feels guilty about abandoning "her" kids - James in particular seems to need a dad/big brother figure, since he was always the leader of the younger boys and ignored by the older boys.  I'm surprised by how well Jennifer seems to be coping without Jill.

 

The boy needs a real tutor, though.  He's thirteen.  If he doesn't know his times tables by now, he needs a real tutor, not Jill.

 

The way Michelle talks to Josie is appalling.  When she went "yaaaaay!" in her face with those bulging eyes, I hoped Josie would *really* misbehave and slap her in the face.  She truly talks to her like an infant.

I agree, James needs a real tutor or a real teacher. Homeschooling can work great if you have structured lessons, and less people to teach. Jill was teaching him probably before she "graduated high school", and that's not ok. I was homeschooled but I only had two siblings, and my mom AND dad taught us, (with real lessons and text books, not online curriculums) and it worked out great. But it certainly doesn't work for everyone and sometimes public schools are better and some kids need privates schools, and I wish the Duggars' realized that.

[Barb23]

I was reading about a 6th grader in our area who has won our local Geography Bee & is moving on to the national competition. What this kid knows is amazing. Of course, James & the flashcards came to my mind. I know the kid in the article is definitely an anomaly but it made me think that by the odds, at least one of the Duggar kids should have the "smart" gene in them. The kid who walks around with his head in a book, who constantly wants to learn about things or has a love of math or science. It still could be one of the howlers or lost girls, but I doubt it. The Home Foolin is just not a priority in this family. Like I said before, we haven't seen or heard of it this season unless you call the flashcard tutorial or sticking address labels on invitations schooling.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Barb23

[WTFFF]

I think Johannah was the one who was blessed with unusual intelligence.  Watch the pre-Josie episodes in particular.  She was so ahead of her chronological age, and she had taught herself to read at 3 because no one else was teaching her. 

 

But now she's been assimilated into the Duggar hive and seems just as dull as the rest of them.