S03.E13: I'm Lost Between Right Or Wrong

[Clemgo3165]

 

Rayna pulling the MY kid card would make me despise her even more.  Teddy is Maddie's father because Rayna asked him to be, she doesn't get it revoke that when he pisses her off.

 

I get Rayna's point in this instance though. Teddy needs to take a timeout because he used his daughter to cover up his and Jeff's wrongdoings. If Teddy had acted like a grown up and owned up to the prostitute issue in the first place that'd be a different story, or if he'd acted like Lamar and threatened to exposed Jeff's giving Layla the pills. But he did neither. You don't throw your kid under the bus to keep you and your "buddy" from getting in trouble. And you certainly don't expose your 15-year-old daughter to a man who would willingly hand over a bottle of pills to a vulnerable 20-year-old.

[politichick]

I still don't get what the hell the point of this storyline even was. 

 

 

Rayna pulling the MY kid card would make me despise her even more.  Teddy is Maddie's father because Rayna asked him to be, she doesn't get it revoke that when he pisses her off. 

Her telling him to get some help cracked me up though.  What kind of help do you get for accidentally sleeping with a prostitute.  Is there a support group for that?

Teddy "accidentally" slept with the prostitute the first time they were together, but they had sex on more than one occasion -- the freebie at the awards show and then the night she offered him the girlfriend package that he thankfully declined and maybe in-between. And Rayna only got so tough with Teddy because he signed Maddie to Edgehill without telling her which was all kinds of wrong and fucked up and she was willing to do absolutely anything to get that contract voided. I don't blame her, either. Would you trust your child's future to fucking Jeff of all people? And he's sleeping with whores and letting himself be blackmailed by an idiot.

[FortKnox]

No, no - that's not soapy enough. Avery will get shot by Sadie and her already-introduced unregistered gun while she's attempting to shoot her ex.

Guns in Tennessee don't have to the registered.

[izabella]

I didn't like Luke with Rayna, but I might like him better as one of the bros. 

 

Layla has to be over 21 by now if she was 20 when she was introduced on the show.  It's been over a year since then, what with the Luke/Rayna year-long tour as a marker.

Edited February 19, 2015 by izabella

[madam magpie]

Rayna pulling the MY kid card would make me despise her even more.  Teddy is Maddie's father because Rayna asked him to be, she doesn't get it revoke that when he pisses her off.

 

No, she doesn't, and despite the many times he's pissed her off, she's never done it. However, when you secretly sign my child to a legal contract without my consent (or the child's, frankly) to cover up the fact that you were sleeping with hookers and getting your sleazy guy pal out of jail, you bet I'll snatch her away and use whatever I have at my disposal to get that contract nulified. If that means taking you to court to revoke your parental rights, so be it. None of that was part of their arrangement.

 

I also agree with politichick that Rayna wasn't saying Teddy couldn't see the kids at all, just that they were going to be living with her full-time. I suspect that has something to do with the hookers/Jeff nonsense, but I also feel like this is all Rayna trying to put her life back in order and take control. FINALLY. She's been such a pathetic hanger-on for so long that I don't care how it happens as long as it happens.

 

Clemgo: I agree that Maddie's frustration is in character given her age, but I think also it came from how Deacon was treating her. He ignored her for days (weeks?), wouldn't take her calls, canceled her lessons, and then went on about how he wasn't always going to be around. To Maddie, he was abandoning her. I think she was super frustrated with and sad about that, and it came out as frustration with the chord. I thought Deacon handled it really well.

 

I believe Layla was 19 when she was introduced on the show. I think they're saying she's not 21 yet, which doesn't matter for drugs but does for alcohol.

Edited February 19, 2015 by madam magpie

[rachel1496]

I get Rayna's point in this instance though. Teddy needs to take a timeout because he used his daughter to cover up his and Jeff's wrongdoings. If Teddy had acted like a grown up and owned up to the prostitute issue in the first place that'd be a different story, or if he'd acted like Lamar and threatened to exposed Jeff's giving Layla the pills. But he did neither. You don't throw your kid under the bus to keep you and your "buddy" from getting in trouble. And you certainly don't expose your 15-year-old daughter to a man who would willingly hand over a bottle of pills to a vulnerable 20-year-old.

Oh she has every right to be pissed, my issue would be if she used this to try to take parental rights from him.  At this point Teddy is (one of) Maddie's fathers and has been since before she was born.  She can want him to take a time out and that's fair but the my kid stuff crosses a line for me.

 

Teddy "accidentally" slept with the prostitute the first time they were together, but they had sex on more than one occasion -- the freebie at the awards show and then the night she offered him the girlfriend package that he thankfully declined and maybe in-between. And Rayna only got so tough with Teddy because he signed Maddie to Edgehill without telling her which was all kinds of wrong and fucked up and she was willing to do absolutely anything to get that contract voided. I don't blame her, either. Would you trust your child's future to fucking Jeff of all people? And he's sleeping with whores and letting himself be blackmailed by an idiot.

Yes, but Rayna doesn't know about the freebie.  As far as she knows Teddy didn't find out until after he slept with her and hasn't seen her since.

[Artsda]

Teddy's also the only parent Maddie's had while all  the rest has been touring for a year. Even when in town they showed Luke spending more family time with the kids than Rayna. Teddy was the only one parenting her while she behaved like a brat.

 

Take away Teddy and Maddie's screwed. She has nobody when the other 2 take off and go into their "me,me, me" modes.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Artsda

[Pop Tart]

 

Oh she has every right to be pissed, my issue would be if she used this to try to take parental rights from him.  At this point Teddy is (one of) Maddie's fathers and has been since before she was born.  She can want him to take a time out and that's fair but the my kid stuff crosses a line for me.

 

For the most part her talk of parental rights and "he's not the father" only came up when she was thinking of using it as a legal strategy to get Maddie out of the contract. It was part of her response to when he first told her what he'd done and why (prostitutes, drugs, almost dead girl, blackmail, etc). At that point she pulled out the parental rights issue. She'd already had the discussion (I think) with her attorney who told her about he one-parent requirement. So in that moment she's thrashing around for any way possible to get Maddie out of the deal - as well as being beyond enraged by what Teddy has done.

 

Later, after she successfully used Jeff's behavior to discredit him and possibly expose Edgehill to major scandal and possibly lawsuits, she had gotten Maddie released and in that conversation with Teddy she did not threaten to terminate his rights. Instead she told him she wanted to keep the girls with her for the time being. A reasonable thing given he'd thrown his daughter under a contractual bus in order to avoid exposing his own mistakes. He used Maddie and not only that put her future career at immense risk. Isn't part of Layla's problem that she's been shoehorned into this pop princess, bubblegum music that doesn't make her happy? Who knows what Jeff would have required Maddie to do to sell records. And in the moment when Teddy signed the paper he proved that it didn't matter what happened to Maddie, all that mattered was protecting his own skin.

 

Rayna's stance has always been that Maddie can and probably will have a career in music, she just doesn't want her exposed to the vicissitudes of the business at the age of 15. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by Pop Tart

[Clemgo3165]

 

Clemgo: I agree that Maddie's frustration is in character given her age, but I think also it came from how Deacon was treating her. He ignored her for days (weeks?), wouldn't take her calls, canceled her lessons, and then went on about how he wasn't always going to be around. To Maddie, he was abandoning her. I think she was super frustrated with and sad about that, and it came out as frustration with the chord. I thought Deacon handled it really well.

 

Totally agree, that's what I meant by justified frustration though I probably didn't express myself very well. Having been through everything Maddie's been through in the last year or so I think she's perfectly justified to have a little whine now and then, especially when her Dad is keeping her at arms length for no reason she can see.

[quangtran]

When Rayna played to "Jeff is bad with women" card to Benton, it was pretty much all over for Jeff, especially given their last meeting.

 

When Sadie first appeared on this show, all sorts of red flags popped up about her potential to cause trouble for everyone else. First it was her antics with Rayna and her making goo-goo eyes with Luke, and now she's likely to make the Avery/Juliette happiness very brief. I don't like her or her erratic storyline. The show already has too many characters. I would not complain if the writers would just hook up Sadie and Luke and let them ride off into the sunset together. They've already hinted at a relationship between the two but left that loose end flapping around in the wind just as they've done with so many other Sadie details.

I personally don't think any of that counts as her being shady, and if these loose ends never gets resolved it was because they were probably never storyline in the first place.

- I know people were suspicious of her selling the wedding gown photo, but if she was going to do it, why jokingly say it to Rayna's face?

- Sadie and Luke only had one scene together, and that was him comforting her about her boyfriend, which was the writers laying more groundwork for the abuse storyline.

- Laura Benanti said in an interview that even though people are tweeting her for Sadie to "stay away from Avery", it is actually possible for a man and woman can just friends. Seems more like the audience are too suspicious, not the character itself.

 

As someone said. when she was introduced she was 20. By underage I assume they mean less than the legal drinking age of 21.

I specifically remember this dialogue when Layla was first introduced:

 

Juliette: What is she, like, twelve?

Jeff: She's nineteen, actually. The tweens love her.

[Soup333]

- Laura Benanti said in an interview that even though people are tweeting her for Sadie to "stay away from Avery", it is actually possible for a man and woman can just friends. Seems more like the audience are too suspicious, not the character itself.

 

Word. I have no suspicions of them getting together like that. She needed a friend and not a producer in that moment. Honestly, he's one of the only men on this show (besides Deacon and maaaaybe Teddy) who has never shown any signs of misogyny. I'm giving  S1 Avery a pass because he was an asshole to everyone, and I think the way he treated Scarlett was much more based on overall assholery/ruthless ambition than the fact that she's a woman.

 

And anyway, do we really think Avery would stray so quickly? I mean, after all that he and Juliette have been through, do we really think he would just hook up with Sadie?  The writers should know that if something like happened after all the angst we've suffered through this season, it would not be good. Hell, I'd drop the show in a heartbeat and not even the brilliance of Connie's hair or the beauty of Chip's face would get me back. 

 

Edited to note that I'm not sure why I brought up misogyny in this context, although the issue has been knocking around in my head lately in regards to this show. Luke taking credit for Rayna's success, Lamaar doing the same thing with her first album, Gunnar relationship with Zoey, Jeff's entire characterization, etc. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by Soup333

[Cranberry]

Yeah, I don't understand why so many people are jumping straight to, "Ugh, Avery's going to cheat with Sadie." He's a better guy than that. He's in love with Juliette (he mentions her every five seconds!) and he's about to be a father, which we know means a lot to him; he wouldn't want to screw that up. Avery is a supportive guy in general, and he's Sadie's producer, so if she's too upset to record he's going to ask her why. It's in character for him to think he can help fix her problems by scaring off her crazy ex, too. I don't think that anything he's done so far constitutes emotional cheating. I also don't see any signs that Sadie's into him. She is being understanding about him being late for sessions because of Juliette, and she often asks how his wife's doing. It's nice for her to have a supportive friend during this tough time.

[Dandesun]

I don't think that Rayna is saying that Teddy can't see the girls at all. I think she wants them at home every night. They slept at his house as part of the shared custody agreement -- the same home where he was sleeping with prostitutes. After allowing Jeff to blackmail him or rather putting himself in a position in which Jeff could blackmail him on two counts deserves a bit of a timeout.

 

When is Juliette having this baby in real life? It feels like she's been pregnant for forever like Jessica Simpson. We may not get a normal scene with her until the end of the season!

 

I actually found the most important part of Rayna and Teddy's talk and Rayna claiming the girls was her follow up of "You need to get some help." I mean, it wasn't just that Teddy was sleeping with a prostitute...  it's that he continued and wanted to have an actual relationship there before thinking better of it. Although, I'd say that his willingness to bend the rules for Jeff was an even bigger problem but I guess because Jeff already knew about the escort it was easy for him to play that card regarding the party.

 

That he followed it up with forcing Teddy to sign Maddie over was clearly a sign that Jeff wasn't likely to let up. He had a card to play and he would continue to play it whenever Rayna made any noise about Maddie. Teddy confessing all to Rayna was a good move because it DID keep her from using the option of revoking Teddy's parental rights in court and it also gave her the information she needed to go to the Big Boss and tell him exactly what sort of shit Jeff was pulling. It seemed fairly obvious to me that Rayna's game in the meeting was a first strike. If the Director had chosen to ignore her, it definitely would have gotten ugly for a lot more people, including Edgehill.

 

I'm going to have to go through last season because after half of the first season I got really bored and quit watching. But then I heard about how cute Avery/Juliette were so I tuned back in on Hulu to get their story, kind of ignoring everyone else's. I'm going to have to go back and watch what happened with Rayna and Luke and how she may have completely flaked out on being a parent there for awhile. Although, by the looks of it, neither Rayna or Teddy seem to have it all together at the same time. They're like a see saw... as Teddy starts making bad decisions, Rayna starts making good ones... but neither one is what you call SOLID consistently.

 

And then there's Deacon.

 

Ah me... I had a knife twisting in my gut the whole episode with him last night. My Dad died of pancreatic cancer that was initially thought to be liver cancer. He died three months after his diagnosis and even if I wasn't a weeping mess with those scenes it was still very very tense. I just kept thinking You don't have much time left. You have got to tell the people you love and make the best of what you have. You don't have time to dick around, hiding and feeling sorry for yourself.

 

I'm fairly certain that Deacon will get his transplant from someone. (I would laugh so hard if it wound up being Luke. I mean, it won't but that would be hilariously awful.) But I'm very glad that Scarlett accepted the Facetime and forced Deacon to at least interact with the world again. And that Maddie's arrival and singing managed to wake him up enough to realize there were things still worth fighting for was a good thing. Those scenes hit hard, though. My Dad was musical and two days before he died, even as his body was shutting down, he was able to play the guitar and do some singing with my youngest sister before she went back to school. Ten years and it still hurts.

 

But enough of my maudlin stuff... Maddie is your typical teenager. "This is so. hard! I can't do it!" Deacon encouraged her, reminded her that you just don't lay down and quit when things are hard and between that and listening to his daughter sing... it finally gave him a reason to pull himself out of the darkness and remember that was still alive... that he wasn't dead yet.

 

And I do hope that cute doctor is Scarlett's new beau. That might be a good thing indeed.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Dandesun

[Primetimer]

Jeff pushes Rayna too far and lives to regret it.

Read the story

[KR Vermont]

Dandesun, I agree that Deacon should inform those he loves and make the best with what he has. I likely would be all kinds of upset (selfishly) to learn after a death that my loved one knew and didn't let us know, it would've put a whole different texture to the remaining time--though I can also understand some reasons why it might be easier for someone to keep a diagnosis to themselves. Such a difficult process, different for each family-friends dynamic. I feel for you.

[Sutton]

 

And then there's Deacon

I know he's new as a father but let's get honest here. Both Rayna and Teddy never consider him in any decisions or discussions that they make that has to do with Maddie or ask him what he thinks should be done when she misbehaves. (Having the party with liquior when no adult were home, and Rayna saying glad you came but didn't include him in what they were going to talk to Maddie about) So the quote "And then there's Deacon" isn't fair give the guy a chance if he wants to be involved in her every day life, at school functions or any of the other things that she does daily, I'm sure as hell he wants to be so let him be a hands on DAD. I'm so sick and tired about Teddy being her father because he raise her from an infant. Remember, Deacon was kept out of that whole lie, if they had given him the chance when she was younger he just might have been a better father then Teddy. Imbezzeler, could you say murderer he did let Lamar die right in front of him, cheater and signing the daughter your suppose to love to a contract because your being blackmailed to save your a_s. Deacon might be an alcoholic but I'm damn sure he wouldn't put his daughters life at risk to save his own a_s.

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't think Avery will cheat with Sadie, but I do think he'll get too close to her situation with her boyfriend and he'll either end up hurting Juliette or the baby or Avery.  

I really hate Jeff which makes me sad because Oliver Hudson was so sweet and hot on Rules of Engagement.  He's such a douchebag on this show that it's killing my love for him.  Ugh....

[dcalley]

Guns in Tennessee don't have to the registered.

Something about her gun is illegal, right? There was the whole ID required, "my name is Jane Smith" thing at the shop.

 

Yes, but Rayna doesn't know about the freebie.  As far as she knows Teddy didn't find out until after he slept with her and hasn't seen her since.

Right, Teddy lied to Rayna and said he stopped once he found out. So I now fear that the hallway liaison at that event will come to light. I noticed how Rayna said prostitutes (plural) and expected him to defensively correct her, but he didn't.

[rubyred]

I admire all of y'all who refer to what Teddy did as "throwing Maddie under the bus" rather than "pimping," which is what I think he did. I'm not kidding, I do admire your forbearance, lol. Teddy does need to get some help, and I don’t care if they chalk it up to extended grief about Pork Blood Peggy – they need to fix this character.

 

The thing about Jeff for me is his version of villainy is such egregious and malignant misogyny I've never been able to enjoy him as a villain. He was a dismissive ass to both Juliette and Rayna from jump, he thinks nothing of using blackmail for business purposes (not just the Maddie situation -- he tried to blackmail Juliette into coming back to Edgehill after their sixty seconds in hell); he's dismissive of Layla the instant her single doesn't chart -- and then he screws her, dumps her, and hands her pills; and he honeypotted the mayor deliberately for leverage! Not to mention, he couldn't just gloat about signing Maddie, he had to send her a gift TO HER MOTHER'S OFFICE to grind it in Rayna's face. This dude is pathological.

 

But I don't think we've seen the last of him. I bet he's going to be running Luke's I Hate Rayna label, so there will be plenty of smirking to be had. (Gah, Luke, go away).

 

Meantime I will treasure those scenes of Rayna cutting him off at the knees at the board meeting. I am going to miss Mario Van Peebles though. His microexpressions were awesome.

[DeLurker]

Something about her gun is illegal, right? There was the whole ID required, "my name is Jane Smith" thing at the shop.

Per the TBI (Tennessee Bureau of Investigations), you got to go through a background check prior to purchasing a firearm from a licensed dealer.

 

 

I am going to miss Mario Van Peebles though. His microexpressions were awesome.

Yup.

Edited February 19, 2015 by DeLurker

[Sandman]

Not to mention, he couldn't just gloat about signing Maddie, he had to send her a gift TO HER MOTHER'S OFFICE to grind it in Rayna's face. This dude is pathological.

 

Just what I was thinking. Who does that? Your label is showing losses for the best part of a year, and yet somehow you have 40 grand to spend on a diamond-encrusted "HAHA I RULE RAYNA JAYMES DROOLS"? Get help! Or, better, don't. Just go away.

 

Luke's I Hate Rayna label

 

The ultimate in vanity publishing. Luke and Jeff should be very happy together. (Psst. Ray: Sign Layla Grant!)

[Soup333]

Let's not forget the way Jeff treated his assistant in last week's ep. Another reason why his "relationship" with Layla is unacceptable. He is disgusting.

If Sadie's ex and Luke get in a shootout, hopefully Jeff will get hit in the crossfire.

[DeLurker]

In addition to great hair this week, I also liked the outfits they had Rayna in.  Not Mom-clothes, not too young, not too uptight - but stylish with a touch of splash (but not overdone).

[shron17]

There's no mix-up. Teddy being married to Rayna when Maddie was born doesn't make him Maddie's legal parent. Marriage is irrelevant. Teddy is considered Maddie's legal father right now because he and Rayna falsified Maddie's birth certificate by listing him as the father. If you aren't a child's biological parent, you can't just claim you are and have it be so when challenged. Certainly if no one challenges him, a court isn't going to revoke Teddy's parental rights, but if Rayna takes him to court, he will probably lose because the birth certificate is fraudulent and Teddy is not Maddie's biological father, nor did he adopt her. When the DNA test was performed is also irrelevant. Even if Teddy and Rayna made an honest mistake and found out their mistake later, as soon as someone challenges his paternity in court, that's it. This has nothing to do with what Teddy "deserves" as the man who raised Maddie. It's only legality.

 

I'm no legal expert but as far as I know the father listed on a child's birth certificate is their legal father and is jointly responsible for the care of that child including rights to custody/visitation, child support and full custody in case of the mother's death.  According to law when the child's mother is married, her husband is the presumed to be the legal father so the marriage is relevant.  The legal father doesn't have to be the biological father and the biological father doesn't automatically have rights unless he files with the court to establish paternity.  Again, I'm not certain of the details but doubt that Deacon establishing paternity for Maddie at 15 would automatically terminate Teddy's parental rights.

[madam magpie]

I'm no legal expert but as far as I know the father listed on a child's birth certificate is their legal father and is jointly responsible for the care of that child including rights to custody/visitation, child support and full custody in case of the mother's death.  According to law when the child's mother is married, her husband is the presumed to be the legal father so the marriage is relevant.  The legal father doesn't have to be the biological father and the biological father doesn't automatically have rights unless he files with the court to establish paternity.  Again, I'm not certain of the details but doubt that Deacon establishing paternity for Maddie at 15 would automatically terminate Teddy's parental rights.

 

This is a pretty useless argument because we're dealing with a lot of semantics, but bottom line, if you knowingly lie about the biological father on a birth certificate, you've committed paternity fraud. If no one ever finds out--as with any fraud (this is my house when I don't own it, this is my copyright when I don't own it, I'm the King of Belgium, whatever)--you can live your entire life with that fraudulent claim in place, and you can make legal decisions as if it's not fraud. Yes, if two people are married, the husband is assumed to be the father. That doesn't make it true, however, and if challenged, that legality can be voided; the fact that the two people were married when the baby was born is irrelevent in that case. A father's name also isn't required on a birth certificate at all. Mine, for example, has no father listed, meaning that growing up, I had only one legal parent. Traditionally, children in were allowed two legal parents/guardians, though with the rise of gay adoption, there's been a push to change that to three. In California, for instance, you can now have three legal parents; I don't know what the law is in Tennessee. Those parents can be biological or adoptive. Teddy is neither the biological nor the adoptive parent of Maddie, however, so if challenged, his legal claim would be weak, especially if Maddie's actual biological father had never relinquished his parental rights. So yes, right now, Teddy has a legal claim to Maddie, and Deacon has no legal claim. But both of those situations are based on a fraudulent document. If Rayna exposes the fraud, Teddy most likely loses. If Tennessee allows for three parents, Teddy could conceivably petition to legally adopt Maddie. I have no idea what his chances would be in that situation, but given how conservative Tennessee is, I'm guessing that's not much of an option for him. Keep in mind too that in some states paternity fraud is a crime. That means that if Rayna knowingly names a man on a birth certificate to be the child's biological father when he's not, she could be criminally liable. (I have no idea if Tennessee is one of these states or not.) However, since this is a TV show and not real life, I'm not terribly concerned.

Edited February 19, 2015 by madam magpie

[roomtorome]

Annoying about just not getting to the testing of his daughter's liver already; we know they are going there - just get to it.  I never understand the dramatic trope of not telling people closest to you that you are very ill and/or dying.  I know it supposedly makes for good drama but it only always annoys the hell out of me.

 

Teddy - too stupid for words.  Less said the better.  

[slade3]

I really hope Scarlett dates the doctor and it becomes a thing.

 

This episode really should have focused only on Deacon/Scarlett, Deacon/Maddie, Rayna/Teddy, Avery and Juliette. I like the actress playing Sadie, but I don't care about Sadie or her story line. I started fast forwarding her scenes. I also don't care about Jeff and Layla. I don't care about Luke, but I think I would have been okay with his scenes with Gunnar and Will if Sadie and Jeff and Layla weren't around.

 

I agree with those who hate Juliette as comic relief. Maybe this was the only way they could think of giving Hayden some time off her feet.

 

I'm very okay with Rayna's decision. I wish Teddy had come clean as soon as this all happened. A guy like Teddy would have known better to give Jeff so much dirt on him. I feel badly for Eric Close in this role.

[slade3]

Annoying about just not getting to the testing of his daughter's liver already; we know they are going there - just get to it.  I never understand the dramatic trope of not telling people closest to you that you are very ill and/or dying.  I know it supposedly makes for good drama but it only always annoys the hell out of me.

 

 

I've been watching Jane the Virgin and the show is a true breath of fresh air. A lot of major things happened recently, and characters figured out the truth and admitted things in the very next episode. True, it has a different tone, but it still manages to cause feelings and I want to watch because I know all the serious stuff isn't going to last for ages. In the end, I care about the characters and hoe they cope with the stuff thrown at them. I'm not interested in the suspense, unless I'm watching a thriller.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Rayna pulling the MY kid card would make me despise her even more. Teddy is Maddie's father because Rayna asked him to be, she doesn't get it revoke that when he pisses her off.

In addition to what others have posted about this, I would like to add that throughout the entire process, she did refer to the girls as "our daughters." I don't think that she ever intended to keep Maddie away from him. The only reason her lawyers filed to terminate his parental rights was to void the contract.

Even when they had that conversation in her office at the end of the episode, she still referred to the girls as "ours." She knows that Teddy loves Maddie but she was willing to do anything to keep Maddie from being contracted to Jeff of all people, even if that meant taking Teddy to court, because unlike Teddy, she isn't willing to pimp her daughter to a disgusting misogynist in order to cover up her mistakes.

She wasn't threatening to terminate his parental rights because she was pissed about something petty or minor. She was livid that he made a terrible choice for their daughter, a choice that would most likely affect her in the most negative way possible as an artist under contract with a guy who has a record of treating women like shit. Rayna saw how he treated Layla as an artist - shiny and new at 19 and then suddenly yesterday's news at 20. Layla is only a few years older than Maddie and Jeff had no problem cutting off Layla when she no longer served any purpose. Rayna knows that the industry is hard enough without someone like that callous enough to break the spirit of a teenager and she doesn't want that for Maddie. I don't blame her for threatening to go nuclear to protect Maddie from that.

Edited February 19, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[shron17]

This is a pretty useless argument because we're dealing with a lot of semantics, but bottom line, if you knowingly lie about the biological father on a birth certificate, you've committed paternity fraud. If no one ever finds out, as with any fraud (this is my house when I don't own it, this is my copyright when I don't own it, I'm the King of Belgium, whatever),

 

Paternity fraud is when a woman names a man as the biological father when she knows he isn't in order to collect child support which is not at all relevant in this situation. There is no fraud unless profit is made.  Maddie is a person, not a possession, and none of her parents "own" her.  Teddy has been Maddie's legal father for 15 years which would be in his favor in court.

[dargosmydaddy]

Prediction: One of the useless males in the cast (take your pick-- Luke? Jeff? Teddy?) will die in the finale, and Deacon will get his liver.

[madam magpie]

Prediction: One of the useless males in the cast (take your pick-- Luke? Jeff? Teddy?) will die in the finale, and Deacon will get his liver.

 

Here's hoping! I vote for Jeff. Luke would be hilariously crazy, though.

 

Paternity fraud is when a woman names a man as the biological father when she knows he isn't in order to collect child support which is not at all relevant in this situation.

 

I don't think that's true, actually. You just have to gain something to have committed fraud. It can be money and usually is, but gaining money specifically is not a requirement. You could make a case for gaining reputation if you wanted to, gaining status, gaining stature, etc. Teddy is guilty of it as well, and a lawyer could probably argue that he "gained" when he signed Maddie away to Jeff to save his reputation. Plus, if Rayna or Teddy has gotten child support as a part of the divorce, there's your money. But again, it's a useless argument because #1) none of that was Rayna's reasoning for her threat, and #2) this isn't real life.

Edited February 20, 2015 by madam magpie

[wendyg]

None of these plots make any sense *and* there wasn't enough music (which is the thing I started watching the show for). Leaving aside the whole paternity angle, in what US state is it remotely legal to sign a 15-year-old girl to a contract without her consent? Granted, the assumption is that Maddie is so eager to get started on a music career that she'd jump at the chance. But she's not a *slave*: surely her father's signing her to a contract she doesn't know about couldn't possibly stand up in any court. And while she wants a career in music it's just possible she wouldn't want to have it with *Edgehill* under these circumstances.

 

This show is too ridiculous to watch any more. Maybe just buy the CDs when they release the music...and, on another topic, i really miss Nashville-the-place. One of the great things in the first couple of years was the way the show used local venues and bands and was forging a relationship with the real city. I notice that The Tennessean has even stopped blogging the show.

[Quiche]

I enjoyed the episode.  I liked best the scenes with Jeff.  I hope he stays on the show.  

 

I'm glad Luke is going to own a rival record company.  Good for him.  Rayna did him wrong.  As for her -- eh?  I will never warm up to her character.

 

I felt sorry for Teddy.  I liked Deacon's scenes, mostly because #1 no Rayna in them and #2 he wasn't mooning over Rayna.  Deacon does so much better when he is away from Rayna.  

Prediction: One of the useless males in the cast (take your pick-- Luke? Jeff? Teddy?) will die in the finale, and Deacon will get his liver.

 

I bet it will be Teddy.

[mikem]

I think Jeff is a horrible person, but he must have some business sense to get where he is, and this episode made no sense from a business perspective.  Why would Jeff send the necklace to Rayna before the meeting with Benton rather than the next day?  Wouldn't the smart business thing be to not tell Rayna about the signing until after the meeting with Benton?  Jeff shouldn't have been surprised that Rayna showed up.  And the first time Jeff and Maddie are going to meet after the signing is in front of Benton, without Jeff making any attempt to find out what Teddy or Rayna said to Maddie about the contract?  How does he know Maddie isn't going to reveal to Benton that she didn't know about the contract at the time it was signed?  And doesn't he want her to sing something for Benton?  How does he know if she has anything prepared?  And, as was already mentioned, there's a good chance that Maddie's going to be unhappy about being on a label that treated her mother so badly.  How does he know that she's not going to mention that to Benton?

 

I'm not sure why Luke is still on the show.  Or Layla, for that matter.

 

If Sadie really signed a napkin in a bar giving her ex something, and he still has that napkin, I'm not sure she didn't make a contract with him.  She should be trying to settle with him.  It's hard to tell how much of Pete's violent and stalking behavior is anger about the business contract as opposed to being an abusive ex who can't let go.  His main theme seems to be that she owes him, not that he's upset that she left him.  Maybe if she settled with him, he'd go away.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think Jeff is a horrible person, but he must have some business sense to get where he is, and this episode made no sense from a business perspective. Why would Jeff send the necklace to Rayna before the meeting with Benton rather than the next day? Wouldn't the smart business thing be to not tell Rayna about the signing until after the meeting with Benton? Jeff shouldn't have been surprised that Rayna showed up. And the first time Jeff and Maddie are going to meet after the signing is in front of Benton, without Jeff making any attempt to find out what Teddy or Rayna said to Maddie about the contract? How does he know Maddie isn't going to reveal to Benton that she didn't know about the contract at the time it was signed? And doesn't he want her to sing something for Benton? How does he know if she has anything prepared? And, as was already mentioned, there's a good chance that Maddie's going to be unhappy about being on a label that treated her mother so badly. How does he know that she's not going to mention that to Benton?

Jeff's ego got in the way of his business sense. Sending that necklace to Rayna was his way of blindsiding her with the news and taunting her.

If Sadie really signed a napkin in a bar giving her ex something, and he still has that napkin, I'm not sure she didn't make a contract with him. She should be trying to settle with him. It's hard to tell how much of Pete's violent and stalking behavior is anger about the business contract as opposed to being an abusive ex who can't let go. His main theme seems to be that she owes him, not that he's upset that she left him. Maybe if she settled with him, he'd go away.

If she was drunk then it's not a valid contract. She said she was in a bar when she signed it and there is no way to time travel back and do a tox screen so the napkin contract seems easily disputable.

I totally disagree that she should settle with him. You should never negotiate with terrorists. I may be remembering this incorrectly, but isn't the reason she left him in the first place because he was already beating her? Abusers like that don't stop just because you shove a pile of money at them. If anything, he would just see it as a sign that he got his way and keep pushing for more. This will only end when one of them is dead or in jail. He isn't going to take a big fat check, say "thank you," and crawl back under the rock he came from.

[Lila82]

I'm not sure why Luke is still on the show.  Or Layla, for that matter.

 

 

I can't help you with Luke, but I do like Layla.  Or at least this iteration of her, which is probably the biggest issue with her characterization: it changes to suit whichever character she's propping.  First she's a pop-country wannabe out to steal Juliette's career.  Then she's a fame hungry nutjob who manipulates Will.  Then she's a fragile waif who can't find her identity and lets herself be used by man after man.  Now she's soothing Jeff's manpain.  But back to Layla 4.0.  She's a cautionary tale for Maddie, a young, talented young girl who was chewed up and spit out by the music industry and almost killed herself in the process.  Rayna even cites her story as part of why she doesn't want Maddie at Edgehill.  But since the record deal was wrapped up so neatly, it's all a moot point.  All Layla's struggles this season were just plot points for Jeff to blackmail Teddy and self-sabotage his career.  None of it was about her.  Which is unfortunate, because I like Aubrey Peeples voice and she does the precious moments/wobbly lips act real well.

 

As for Luke...he's like ANOTHER obstacle to Gunnar/Scarlett singing together.  

[RedheadZombie]

Avery being the big producer was fun, as long as they don't even think about going there with Sadie.  Just keep them friends, show! Those two at least chased away her ex, but I'm sure he'll be back.  I wonder if he'll even try and go after Avery now.  It would almost be worth it, if this all ends with him suffering the wrath of a pregnant Juliette.  Assuming they move past this current "comedic" Juliette, and bring out a "I will cut you!" Juliette.

 

I don't necessarily dislike the character of Sadie.  She's filling a role that's currently sadly lacking - recording females.  Zoe's out, Layla's out, Scarlett's out, Juliette's temporarily out, Maddie's on hold until she's older, Rayna's busy with other things.  I think the actress is good in the role, and is a confident performer and good singer. It's just not doing anything for me.  It doesn't help that she's being anchored by Avery, when I'd prefer him elsewhere.

 

I know it was in character, but I so wish Avery had not played hero tonight.  Sadie's ex is crazy, and Sadie is running around with a gun.  I am so afraid that Avery, Juliette, or baby Javery is going to get caught in the crossfire between that pair.  If Sadie is supposed to be a country music star, why can't she afford security?

 

JJ is a fan favorite, and he has chemistry with everyone.  I'm irritated that the show is trying to force me to like Sadie by pairing her in scenes with Avery.  I'd rather see him with almost any other character - doing anything.

 

Teddy has no legal claim to Maddie. Her birth certificate is a fraudulent document. He's the mayor, so he could make some trouble, but the bottom line is that Deacon never relinquished his parental rights and Teddy never legally adopted Maddie. Rayna and Deacon do hold most of the cards. Not to mention that Maddie is almost 16. All Rayna really has to do is tie him up in court for two years.

 

A fraudulent document?  It's always been my understanding that when a married woman gives birth, her husband is the legal father.  Naming Teddy on the birth certificate may be immoral, but I don't believe it's illegal.  Teddy has rights, and Rayna is going to have to revoke them, otherwise she can't keep him from the children.  What is she going to do, blackmail him like Jeff?  Deacon has no cards unless he pursues it legally.  At Maddie's age she may have a say.  Is she willing to repudiate Teddy in court?  I'm not sure how I would feel about Maddie if she did.

 

Rayna is teetering on the verge of using access to her children as punishment and reward.  Mad at Deacon - Teddy's Maddie's daddy.  Teddy's bad - Deacon's Maddie's daddy.  And separating all this mess from Daphne - what will Rayna use to keep Teddy from her?

[Ellaria]

It's time for Luke to take his act somewhere else. Didn't like him with Rayna and I like him less without her.

I wish that Laura Benanti had a different role on this show because I don't particularly like the Sadie story line. Domestic violence is an important issue and I have no confidence that these writers can do it justice.

Bye, bye Jeff. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I've had enough of the Snidley Whiplash of Nashville. And please no love story with Layla. Run, girl, run!

Maybe if the writers get rid of these characters they can start to focus on meaningful story lines for Teddy and Juliette.

Scarlett and the doctor would be an awesome couple. And weepy Gunnar needs to move on.

[Quiche]

Rayna deals with life and people at a very shallow level.  It's all about what she thinks, what she thinks is best, and what she "feels."  

 

After dumping Luke, she runs to Deacon.  But she isn't ready to deal with him or his feelings or what he thinks.  Rayna needs time.  Because it is 1000% about her.  

 

That's a kind of abuse.  I am willing to cut Teddy quite a few breaks - because he suffered from that abuse for years.  

 

Rayna is actually an inversion of the Jeff character.  The main difference between the two is not their selfishness.  The main difference is that Rayna is holier than thou, and Jeff is a self-knowing devil.  They actually deserve each other.  

 

Compare - Rayna basically leaves Deacon hanging, while she takes care of her needs.  And Jeff did the same to Layla.  

[GaT]

I think Jeff is a horrible person, but he must have some business sense to get where he is, and this episode made no sense from a business perspective.  

 

Jeff has absolutely NO business sense. Right after he got the job he either caused or didn't prevent two of the record company's top earners (Rayna & Juliette) to leave. That is not good business. He didn't even realize that Juliette leaving was a problem until she gave him the "burning down the house" speech, & then it finally occurred to him that he was in trouble. He was really very stupid when it came to both of them, & he's just as stupid with Layla & Maddie.

[Turtle]

Teddy being married to Rayna when Maddie was born doesn't make him Maddie's legal parent.

 

Yes it does.  In most states, including Tennessee, there is a presumption that a baby is the child of the woman's husband, and it isn't a crime for the parents to not indicate otherwise.  No one challenged the paternity and Teddy is listed on the birth certificate (voluntarily), so he is in fact her legal father. 

 

if you knowingly lie about the biological father on a birth certificate, you've committed paternity fraud

 

That's not exactly right.  Paternity fraud is when the mother lies to a man and tells him that the baby is his when it isn't.  That is the *only* type of paternity fraud recognized by the courts.  That's not the case here - Teddy knew that Maddie was Deacon's and he knowingly chose to take legal responsibility for her.  It's also not a criminal act, it only gives rise to a civil claim, and *only* the man who was deceptively told that the baby was his can make that claim; here, that would be Teddy, but as I said, Teddy wasn't lied to - he knew the deal.  There is no paternity fraud here.  Rayna could get a court-approved DNA test to remove Teddy as the father, but there is a statute of limitations when both parents have held themselves out to be the parents (absent paternity fraud) and any attempt by Rayna to strip Teddy of his parental rights would most likely be thrown out of court.  

How long has it been since Deacon found out about the cancer?  The timeline on this show is always a little confusing to me.  But I thought it hadn't been more than a couple of weeks, in which case it's not that surprising that he hasn't told Rayna and Maddie yet. Those are going to be two really terrible conversations to have, and I think he's coming up with reasons to avoid them because he doesn't want to have them.  He just found out he's dying, so I'm inclined to give him a bit of a break while he sorts through it.  Also, I think he knows that Maddie would want to get tested, and he doesn't want to put her through that.  He didn't even want to put Scarlett through it.

[CMH1981]

 

Rayna is teetering on the verge of using access to her children as punishment and reward.  Mad at Deacon - Teddy's Maddie's daddy.  Teddy's bad - Deacon's Maddie's daddy.  And separating all this mess from Daphne - what will Rayna use to keep Teddy from her?

 

Regarding Daphne...I wouldn't put it past the writers to figure out a way to say she is Deacon's child as well.  I could totally see Rayna and Deacon having a quick hookup while on the road/touring...it is the easiest way to cut Teddy out for good and explain how Daphne looks exactly like a kid from a Rayna/Deacon pairing ala Maddie.

[RedheadZombie]

The stupidest part of this whole Teddy storyline, is the prostitution wouldn't have even been a huge scandal, depending how they spin it.  He was a lonely widower whose wife was tragically murdered.  He didn't realize at first that she was a hooker.  She wasn't underage - in fact she's middle-aged.  He could have paid off the hooker to lie and say he never paid her, it was a personal relationship.  It was weak from the beginning.  Now a dead hooker in his bed ...........

[madam magpie]

That's not exactly right.  Paternity fraud is when the mother lies to a man and tells him that the baby is his when it isn't.  That is the *only* type of paternity fraud recognized by the courts.

 

That's not exactly right either. It depends on the state...entirely, I think. I can't swear to it, but I don't think paternity fraud is a federal crime. In the state of Nevada, for example, an example of criminal paternity fraud is when one person helps another falsify a paternity test. These laws are vast and varied and complicated and can't be nailed down with a quick internet search by some writers who aren't known for diligent research. My point is not that Teddy has no case. It's that Rayna and Deacon would have a strong one. This wouldn't be a case of a mother's rights vs. a father's rights. It's a case of a father's rights vs. a father's rights, where one father wasn't even told about his paternity, another claimed it, and then signed a legal contract in the minor's name without the consent of either biological parent. Call it what you like, but I see Teddy as being in the weaker position here. And so did Rayna's lawyers, and so did he, apparently, so he caved.

 

A fraudulent document?  It's always been my understanding that when a married woman gives birth, her husband is the legal father.  Naming Teddy on the birth certificate may be immoral, but I don't believe it's illegal.

 

So you're saying that signing a legal document saying something is true when you know or suspect it's false is not illegal? I don't believe that would hold up in court. If you do, OK. I suspect we'll never know if it holds up in Nashville-verse court, however, because this part of the storyine appears to be over.

 

I realize that Teddy's ambiguous paternity is a touchy subject, and what I'm saying has nothing to do with whether he does or doesn't deserve a role as Maddie's parent (though I think he does). My point is that his position is precarious...obviously, or Rayna wouldn't have been able to get him to back down when she threatened it. The fact that Jeff Fordham didn't recognize that as well when everyone knows who Maddie's biological father is just shows Jeff's hubris...or stupidity...or some bad writing...or all three.

Edited February 20, 2015 by madam magpie

[hqtextbook]

I LOVE when Rayna goes full on Tami Taylor protective feminist. She did absolutely the right thing doing whatever it took to make sure her daughter got nowhere near Jeff Fordham. And that speech about how Jeff doesnt respect his female artists: GOLD. I hope she takes Layla under her wing too and just completes the set. 

 

On the other hand. I don't really get how the show can be so pro-girl power with Rayna's storyline while forcing Juliette into 1000 pregnancy stereotypes. Bring back strong/independeing/badass Juliette pleaseeeeee!

[Turtle]

It depends on the state...entirely, I think. I can't swear to it, but I don't think paternity fraud is a federal crime. In the state of Nevada, for example, an example of criminal paternity fraud is when one person helps another falsify a paternity test. These laws are vast and varied and complicated and can't be nailed down with a quick internet search by some writers who aren't known for diligent research.

 

I swear I'm not trying to get in to a fight, but I feel a compulsion to try (again) to clear this up.  The laws actually are not that complicated.  And in Tennessee, the only type of paternity fraud recognized is when the mother lies to a man and tells him that he is the father even when she knows he isn't.  And the only recourse for that is the man who was lied to suing the mother in civil court for money he paid as a result of her lie (child support, etc.).  This information is in fact easily found through a google search. 

 

Additionally, parents signing the birth certificate when they know or suspect the named father is not the biological father is not recognized as criminal fraud, even in Nevada (not that Nevada law matters here).  But in the interest of accuracy and completeness, in Nevada "criminal paternity fraud" applies only when a genetic test (blood or DNA) is altered or interfered with to affect the finding of paternity.  It has nothing to do with who is named on the birth certificate. 

 

Finally, the parents signing the birth certificate even with suspicion or knowledge that the husband is not the bio dad is not considered fraud or illegal.  As mentioned before, the laws of most states (including TN) have statutes that presumptively identify the husband as the father; the husband is automatically named as the father by law.  These laws are based on public policy, in that states don't want husbands to be able to claim a child isn't theirs and therefore make the child a illegitimate.  The laws are old and based on concepts and theories that are no longer as relevant as they once were (because women are now able to support themselves and children), but they are still in place.

 

Teddy's parenthood is not ambiguous.  He is Maddie's legal father.  Because he and Rayna held him out to be Maddie's father for so long, despite them both knowing the biological reality, will make it almost impossible for Rayna to take away Teddy's parental rights due to the statute of limitations.  Deacon could go to the courts to be named as Maddie's legal father, but it'd be an uphill battle, despite the DNA test, because it's been so long and it would cause Maddie a lot of damage to have Teddy taken from her life; Deacon having terminal cancer sure wouldn't help.  Teddy probably had some idea of this because I think he's a lawyer, but he also knew that dragging any of this to the courts would cause a lot of damage to Maddie.  Rayna also probably knew this, but was hoping Teddy wouldn't call her bluff.  And she was right.  

Edited February 20, 2015 by Turtle

[methodwriter85]

It sounds like the show's on an upswing again,. Damn, I need to catch up.

[shron17]

So you're saying that signing a legal document saying something is true when you know or suspect it's false is not illegal? I don't believe that would hold up in court. If you do, OK.

 

 

I don't believe putting the name of a non-biological father on the birth certificate is saying he is the biological father.  If so, they could just require a DNA test.  It does mean he's the legal father and liable for support of the child, unless disputed and proved.

[dmc]

What was Jeff thinking? This was a really stupid plan. No, really really stupid! 

And I thought Teddy was dumb. If there is one thing Teddy is good at, it's telling the truth so people can bail out his mess. It reminds me of his shady real estate dealings in season 1.

I kind of liked Luke drinking with Gunnar and Will. 

I'm glad Layla seems a little more well-adjusted. Hopefully Jeff won't derail her too much.

Scarlett always seems to have one guy yelling at her while in emotional pain while she cries and tries to cheers him up. Deacon's doctor is cute!

I liked seeing Deacon with Maddie and acknowledging Scarlett at the end. 

 

No to Avery and Sadie as more than friends! Juliette and Avery forever!!!

it was a dumb plan

Rayna deals with life and people at a very shallow level.  It's all about what she thinks, what she thinks is best, and what she "feels."  

 

After dumping Luke, she runs to Deacon.  But she isn't ready to deal with him or his feelings or what he thinks.  Rayna needs time.  Because it is 1000% about her.  

 

That's a kind of abuse.  I am willing to cut Teddy quite a few breaks - because he suffered from that abuse for years.  

 

Rayna is actually an inversion of the Jeff character.  The main difference between the two is not their selfishness.  The main difference is that Rayna is holier than thou, and Jeff is a self-knowing devil.  They actually deserve each other.  

 

Compare - Rayna basically leaves Deacon hanging, while she takes care of her needs.  And Jeff did the same to Layla.  

Rayna and Jeff are very similiar its why they don't like each other