Fiddler1 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I believe that's the Hampton String Quartet on the string version of Sympathy if anybody's looking for it :) They cover a lot of classic rock, among other things 5 Link to comment
TwistedandBored February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Nothing in this episode made sense. However, knowing Fox is trying to correct the mistakes that were made earlier in the season sort of help me get over a lot of my WTF expressions and take the episode as it was. With that said, I am glad Henry is gone. Now, all we need is to get rid of Dark WIllow wannabe Katrina. Also, it seem like the writers are thinking of bringing back Abbie's witchy relative from being stoned. Cool. 5 Link to comment
benteen February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) The wonderful scene in the bookstore between Ichabod and Abbie had me wondering why the show doesn't give us more stuff like that anymore. The Home Depot scene was pretty great too. I did end up enjoying this episode with all that went on and the fact that we'll have Abbie teaming up in the past with 1781 Ichabod Crane. I do love time travel and meeting Crane this way could be the kind of stuff that made this series great in the first place. I see that they are still going with the wonky historical timelines. There was no Revolutionary War in 1773 and Ichabod certainly wasn't taking orders from Washington at the time. But this isn't the first time they did that. Katrina and Henry's plan though was just not good and nothing can make the Whisperer (aka Katrina) interesting. John Noble always did great work as Henry even though the show didn't do him a lot of favors this season. This brings it back to a recurring problem the show has...it's Ichabod and Abbie dealing with the SAME FOUR CHARACTERS IN EVERY EPISODE. We have Jenny, Irving, Katrina, and Henry, with Headless thrown in once and a while. Literally it's a round robin of the same six characters week after week of the same six characters and it makes the world of Sleepy Hollow very, very small and very small stakes. If the show gets renewed for a third season, they have to continue the focus on Ichabod and Abbie's relationship/duties while giving them more than the same four characters to deal with week in and week out. Looks like we were both thinking of Abbie's ancestor at the same time, Twisted. This storyline needs to happen next season...if there is a next season. Tonight's episode did show some potential for expanding Sleepy Hollow's extremely limited world and character pool. The witches coven could bring in some new blood to the show. Also, I was very interested when Abbie revealed that she's trying to find a way to bring her ancestor out of stone. That could be really cool but knowing the show, they would probably dispose of Abbie's ancestor in the same episode. Edited February 17, 2015 by benteen 5 Link to comment
Limelight February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I'm confused about Irving. Jenny shot him and he recovered because he was all evil, then he coughs the evil out after Henry died and Jenny is hugging him but he goes sort of limp. He didn't revert back to mortal Irving and die right there? I don't know why I thought he did. I'm so glad I came on here to read everyone else's comments because I was so depressed. I just love Capt. Irving!! Edited February 17, 2015 by Limelight Link to comment
thuganomics85 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) It's hard to fully judge this episode, since I feel like there was a lot of the meddling they were talking about going on, and it caused a lot of it to be rushed, jumbled, and close to incoherent. But, the destination was decent enough. Not enough to save the season, but if they nail the finale right, at least any potential third season might not be DOA. I really hope Henry/Jeremy is dead dead. No more resurrection bullshit. I have all the love in the world for John Noble, but I felt like it was either a case of too much of a good thing or the writers assumed Noble's acting could counter any writing weaknesses, which simply wasn't true. Either way, Henry was a bust and I think Noble deserves better. So, may the character bow out gracefully. Similarly, may Katrina stay bad and not go through any redemption bullshit (unless it ends with her death as well.) Being evil was probably the only time Katia Winter showed any spark, even though she's still the weak link. And, I like that she isn't a "badass" villain. Nope, Katrina comes off like a whiny, entitled, egotistical "all about ME!!!" villain, which is never not pathetic and easy to root against. Keep at it show! If Goffman tries to change it, just whack him with a stick, FOX! Always good to get more Ichabod/Abbie stuff. This show is at it's best when it's just them doing scenes like at the bookstore, hardware store, putting their heads together, and being the leads that they are. I can only hope they finally figured this out. Glad that Frank seems to be cured, and I hope this means he and Jenny are safe. Orlando Jones and Lyndie Greenwood deserve gold stars for putting up with this season. They really deserved better. So, the finale is Katrina and Abbie are back during the Revolutionary War, and Katrina wants to "save" Jeremy, by letting Ichabod die, I guess. But, Abbie is going to try and work with this version of Ichabod to prevent that. Could work. Might not. Who knows, at this point? But, at least it has a chance, now. Edited February 17, 2015 by thuganomics85 3 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I'm confused about Irving. Jenny shot him and he recovered because he was all evil, then he coughs the evil out after Henry died and Jenny is hugging him but he goes sort of limp. Irving was owned by Henry aka Horseman of War. When Abbie shot him, Henry died. Once he died, that influence that Henry had over Frank ceased. Frank `coughed`up the Horseman`s influence and control - aka the black smoke. Frank is now free from evil yet still alive!! YES! ETA: There is a site where someone has made some gifs illustrating the beautiful parallel of the end of this show, and the pilot. Ichabod wakes from his sleep, stumbles onto the road, touches the asphalt. Abbie wakes, stumbles onto a path, touched the tracks of a wagon on a well worn path. Ichabod is almost struck by a car. Abbie is almost stuck by horse and wagon. Ichabod looks on in shock at the strange vehicle. Abbie looks on in shock and the unfamiliar vehicle. The camera pulls back from Ichabod to show the sign ``Sleepy Hollow: population 144,000.`` The camera pulls back from Abbie to show a more rustic sigh. ``Sleepy Hollow. population: 1,400. Just amazing! 13 Link to comment
benteen February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 At least KW showed some fire at the end. Link to comment
sinkwriter February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I did appreciate that Ichabod was so exasperated with Henry. "I didn't abandon you! I didn't know you existed, you dumbass!" I was so glad he finally said that. About damn time. I wish Katrina's story had always been that she was deceiving Ichabod and had some sort of wicked plan, instead of this bizarre sudden about-face against her own husband and principles (or what her principles seemed to have been). Also, I don't believe she was helping George Washington simply to get him to reinstate covens and witchcraft into mainstream society. It just doesn't seem believable to me after all the work she did to help the cause and spy and recruit Ichabod and later Ichabod back to life. But I guess I'll take what I can get if it means the story finally moves forward and away from this Henry-Katrina bullshit. I hope she's the ultimate sacrifice next week. I've had enough of her. Edited February 17, 2015 by sinkwriter 7 Link to comment
Limelight February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Thanks so much, HalcyonDays for explaining Irving's situation to me. I've never been so happy to be wrong! 1 Link to comment
Yolapukka February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) The hour sailed by and I was happy to handwave any plotholes, given just how damn much fun it was to watch. Often with this show, the best scenes are the throwaways and that scene in the hardware store was absolute gold; bobblehead gnomes, Abbie reminding Ichabod that loud talk of domestic terrorism can bring the wrong sort of attention, "Flint and Steel" * and Ichabod remembering to buy batteries after pontificating on the value of old ways. I'm in the contingent of people who buy it when Ichabod acknowledges the value of his bond to Abbie and their mission, (though it's been tainted by backsliding) so I felt like it was more than just a satisfying end to a villain when he participated in the killing of Henry. I can do without Abbie being jailed as a possible runaway slave, but I'll overlook it somewhat as a poorly considered plot-point in getting her into jail in order to mirror the events of the first episode. (I don't especially care for that sort of trivialization in a fantasy show, what kind of freaking fantasy is that?) I'm looking forward to the next episode in a way I had lost this season. Loved the Jenny and Frank scenes, I do not ship them, but nor do I deny they have a tangible connection. I also loved that Jenny could see clear to stop Frank by whatever means available to her and that it was in part out of respect for the man he was. I loved Orlando, he hit the right notes as Evil! Frank! a little over the top without being completely ridiculous. * I'm giving a certain amount of side-eye to the notion that there would be no flint strikers in a hardware store, especially in a small town in a rural area. Edited February 17, 2015 by yuggapukka 4 Link to comment
GracieV February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I don't care what happens in the rest of the episode, I loved the cats in the bookstore. :) 7 Link to comment
DeLurker February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I did appreciate that Ichabod was so exasperated with Henry. "I didn't abandon you! I didn't know you existed, you dumbass!" I clearly heard that last part...in my head. No, I heard it too. Not a huge fan of the episode. The plot as mentioned above seemed just thrown together and I didn't really get why Katrina went along with it. It was such a quick heel turn. Also sad that we might not be getting anymore Jenny or Frank this season/series. I'll give them slack since they were clearly bailing water trying to stay afloat. Why it took so long? Dunno. Aww.. phoenics baby.... just rest and relax and log off this board. Sleep and drug yourself up. We'll be here when you wake!! ;') Uh, a Leviosa spell?? (see Harry Potter..) Yep, sleep without elevate blood pressure post ep - first time in a long time.Katrina just needed Hermione all season. So glad Frank said something about Jenny never coming to visit him in Tarrytown and her total non-response. Fitting since the writers completely ignored both of them for the bulk of the season. Katrina's a full blooded witch now? Knew the women folk were witches, but now Dad is a Quaker warlock? Well, isn't THAT convenient (Church Lady voice)? 3 Link to comment
Timetoread February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 The u turn was a bit jarring but utterly welcome. I hope it is enough to save the show. I'll stick my neck out as the one who thoroughly enjoyed Katias performance at the end. The tension between her and Tom was palpable and I am sorry the writers didnt do right by her from the start. I even noted for the first time how truly pretty KW is. I signed in however to point out something that the writers would be smart to remember - Katrina was sent to purgatory not by accident but for her deeds. Henry was evil by birth and killed as a young child. The seed was already there that Katrina was not right and never was. Why are we taking the word of two evil people that the coven was bad? That Coven punished both Kat and Jer and they should have. I buy though that she fell in love with Ich but when he died she didnt think that the rules applied to her. 6 Link to comment
sinkwriter February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I confess to being highly entertained by Crane in the hardware store. Especially when he starts going on about "flint and steel" and the good ol' days of doing everything by hand, and then he turns around and says, "Ooh! Batteries!" LOL. Awesome. 11 Link to comment
missbonnie February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) One down, one to go. Kill the witch! Katrina going along with Henry's plan made zero sense to me -- between the bad acting and the lack of foundation neither Katrina nor Henry came off as believable in their motivations. But I won't quibble because HENRY IS DEAD! I could believe Katrina turning on Ichabod after Abbie killed Henry. The Katrina and Henry scenes...just...dragged...on...thank goodness they are over FOREVER. Kinda loved Ichabod calling out Henry. Happy that Frank is back but damn was he creepy when evil. Tom Mison needs to tone down the finger gestures. Cautiously optimistic that they may reset this show for S3. All of this! And finally someone else noticed the finger business! I have been bugged by the fact that Mison has a tendency to always have the fingers on his left hand in a weird position. Even when he walks, it's been driving me crazy! Please, please let Katrina die next week. I have a glimmer of hope for next year, depending on next week's episode. Edited February 17, 2015 by missbonnie 2 Link to comment
TwistedandBored February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 At least KW showed some fire at the end. Biggest plot twist of the season or it could have been because she actually stopped whispering her lines for 1 minute. Just saying... 8 Link to comment
catrox14 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I confess to being highly entertained by Crane in the hardware store. Especially when he starts going on about "flint and steel" and the good ol' days of doing everything by hand, and then he turns around and says, "Ooh! Batteries!" LOL. Awesome. This is the kind of thing that made me fall in love with the show to begin with. It harkens back to him playing with the car window and eating the donut holes etc. The quirky fun sense of humor that was missing. 8 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 All of this! And finally someone else noticed the finger business! I have been bugged by the fact that Mison has a tendency to always have the fingers on his left hand in a weird position. Even when he walks, it's been driving me crazy! Please, please let Katrina die next week. I have a glimmer of hope for next year, depending on next week's episode. Don't be knocking those fingers....Those beautiful fingers and hands could do some serious damage to a woman....(*slaps self / sighs*) In all seriousness, it is a physical tick that Mison incorporates to convey Ichabod's distress or uncomfortableness with a situation. We also see him do it, when he needs to feel superior or at least learned, yet does not because he is the modern times and is not comfortable with the situation. It is a little gesture/tick that I've always loved... 11 Link to comment
GracieV February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Other than the cats in the bookstore, I didn't really like this one. Such a jumbled mess and it is so very blatantly obvious that the writers/TPTB are twisting their characters and situations to match what they think the fans want to see that they have lost all coherency. I couldn't really get into the story because I was too conscious of the behind the scenes mess. They will be lucky to get a third season, if they do I hope they find their way. 1 Link to comment
tennisgurl February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I think one of my favorite scenes was when Ichabad was finally calling out Henry on all his "Daddy abandoned me"! crap. He just seemed like he was annoyed of hearing the same song and dance over and over. Like, "Oh my God, this again! I was dead! And buried! And didn't know you existed! What exactly did you want me to DO?!?!" I am right there with you on the almost eye roll, Ichabad. He finally admitted that what happened really wasn't his fault, and that he wont keep letting Henry use that to make him feel guilty. Edited February 17, 2015 by tennisgurl 14 Link to comment
Leia1979 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I thought this started off a bit slow (and talk about a lot of previouslies), but this episode left me feeling better about this show than I have in quite some time. Abbie talking about how their duty as witnesses comes first? From our keyboards to the showrunners' eyes. The return of Mr. and Mrs. BAMF? Check! Crane calling Henry a petulant child? Yeah, we've been saying that for awhile. I know some of this stuff seems really abrupt, but I'm encouraged that much-needed changes are finally happening. Some things made no sense or took too long. Giving Evil!Katrina one more chance after she nearly blew up Abbie? That's about 20 chances too many. However, this was the most interesting I've ever found Katrina. Nobody blowing up the bell during the Crane family drama? Well, I suppose they didn't want to blow themselves up if they didn't have to. Abbie's Back to the Future adventures look pretty exciting. 1 Link to comment
catrox14 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) Other than the cats in the bookstore, I didn't really like this one. Such a jumbled mess and it is so very blatantly obvious that the writers/TPTB are twisting their characters and situations to match what they think the fans want to see that they have lost all coherency. I couldn't really get into the story because I was too conscious of the behind the scenes mess. They will be lucky to get a third season, if they do I hope they find their way. I would argue it's more like they realized they were fucking up their own show and needed to "course correct" back to what actually was working in s1 and made it a good show. YMMV Edited February 17, 2015 by catrox14 8 Link to comment
archiesmom February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Other than the cats in the bookstore, I didn't really like this one. Such a jumbled mess and it is so very blatantly obvious that the writers/TPTB are twisting their characters and situations to match what they think the fans want to see that they have lost all coherency. I couldn't really get into the story because I was too conscious of the behind the scenes mess. They will be lucky to get a third season, if they do I hope they find their way. You know, I might agree but it wasn't just fans. TV critics were complaining about the same problems fans were. As much as I'd like to believe the fans got through to these people, let's be real, these guys who run the show probably got their feelings hurt when the recaps weren't going their way. I agree with hoping they find their way though. As for the rest of the episode, Im satisfied. This is where they should've been mid-season. Why they chose to stretch this out is anyones guess. I can honestly say I'm looking forward to a third season. Also, Abbie is the best looking time traveler I've seen. Is it just me or has she been glowing these past few episodes? 7 Link to comment
Diapason Untuned February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I would argue it's more like they realized they were fucking up their own show and needed to "course correct" back to what actually was working in s1 and made it a good show. YMMV Hey, first time poster here. I think sticking too closely to Season 1 is what caused the problem with Katrina in the first place. Season 1 Katrina was less a character, more a plot device, a mysterious figure that gave out info from Purgatory to move the plot along. When she finally got out of Purgatory, the writers didn't know what to do with her, which is why they continued along that vein with the ridiculous spying thing. When even that wore out and Katrina was finally dragged into the 21st century with the rest of the characters, she simply... flagged. Unlike Ichabod, who was written as a man out of time making his way in our modern world, with everything that entailed, Katrina never moved past her original role from Season 1. We barely got to see the sort of offbeat quirkiness that, among other things, made Ichabod such a delight to viewers. Rather, the writers defaulted to the old standby of relationship drama, for the most part. We never got to see Katrina have a life. it's a shame really, that could have been really fun. 3 Link to comment
TV Juriste February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Don't be knocking those fingers....Those beautiful fingers and hands could do some serious damage to a woman....(*slaps self / sighs*) In all seriousness, it is a physical tick that Mison incorporates to convey Ichabod's distress or uncomfortableness with a situation. We also see him do it, when he needs to feel superior or at least learned, yet does not because he is the modern times and is not comfortable with the situation. It is a little gesture/tick that I've always loved... Yes, Halcyon Days, I like those fingers more than I should . . . 2 Link to comment
Blackhoney February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I pretty much agree with everyone who says this episode seemed slapped together. The Ichatrina break-up was unbelievable, as was Katrina's overly quick acceptance of dark magic as her true calling. However, given the ratings and Fox stepping in requesting changes, what else were the writers to do? The Crane family drama had to come to an end one way or another and I guess this is just what they came up with. It was ugly and messy, but so was most of this season. Next week's episode needs to be flawless to keep what few fans the show has left excited about a third season. Katrina needs to be killed off next and something needs to be set up for season three. Hopefully we get some Horseman and a hint of what evil our Witnesses will face in the fall. 5 Link to comment
cynic February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) Yeah, this episode was a mess and Katrina's heel turn came out of freaking nowhere, but it had its good parts like Crane telling off his son, Ichabbie in the hardware store, and the pilot callbacks in colonial times. Even without those parts, I would have enjoyed this episode for the sheer reason that it so obviously is an effort to fix what's wrong and it gives me hope for the show's future. Still, I would have much preferred Katrina being revealed as evil all along instead of this sudden change. (Actually I would have preferred her being revealed as evil at the end of season one and Henry had never been introduced, thus giving us a much better season two, but c'est la vie.) I did have a few questions (well, really more than a few, cuz there were plot holes galore, but I'll limit myself to one - So, does this mean any yahoo can do magic with the right spell? Neither Abbie or Jenny were effected with the other latent witches, but they both have performed magic this season. Did that all mean nothing?!? I'm really disappointed by that. Also, tiny personal pet peeve: I hate being able to see magic. I'd rather just see the effects on a victim instead of seeing a ball or streak of magic hitting things. It's just goofy looking. Edited February 17, 2015 by cynic Link to comment
kimberella February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 SH writers on Katrina turning evil: "Bitches be crazy, am I right?" Always choosing the stalest dullest path for her. Good thing she had these men showing her the right (wrong?) path. Making her the one driving events from the beginning, sabotaging the Witnesses at every turn was too much to ask. That would have explained her character inconsistencies, but who needs a good story, when you can have mediocrity instead? So the runaway slave plot for Abbie turned out to be accurate. Of course it was. Anyway, if it all ends up with Katrina and Henry definitely dead and with Moloch back in the game, I'm all for it, as long as they are not gross about it. The episode wasn't the best, but it was entertaining, whenever Henry and Katrina weren't showing their faces. 1 Crane down, one to go. 1 Link to comment
savinggrace February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I signed in however to point out something that the writers would be smart to remember - Katrina was sent to purgatory not by accident but for her deeds. Henry was evil by birth and killed as a young child. The seed was already there that Katrina was not right and never was. Why are we taking the word of two evil people that the coven was bad? That Coven punished both Kat and Jer and they should have. I buy though that she fell in love with Ich but when he died she didnt think that the rules applied to her. But Katrina is not like all the other people who were in purgatory for misdeeds. Our precious redhead snowflake was merely being held captive by Moloch as a gift to be bestowed upon Headless Abraham once Abraham fulfilled Moloch's missives. At least that's how the clumsy writers ret-conned it. She went from being a witch who was burned at stake for mis-using her powers to being a "gift". The dialogue on this show is just so lazy. Ichabod: (paraphrasing) Perhaps there's a way to buy time for Frank in order to figure out how to save him Abbie: "You mean use the Gorgon's head?" Say what? How would she make that leap? I get Ichabbie has a connection but is mind-reading part of that? Henry to Katrina: "We would be the most powerful coven. No longer would witches be hunted and burned." When was the last time you heard of anyone hunting or burning a witch in modern America? It bothered me to see Henry leading Katrina around by the arm. Isn't that the story of her life? She's always a prop being used by others to fulfill their aims. She's ruled by emotions rather than logic or common sense. This episode, unfortunately only further highlighted Katia Winter's acting deficiencies. Her blank stare and whispery voice were in full effect most of the hour. The Frank/Jenny plot felt extraneous. I've never been a fan of the tangent Irving's character was forced into so I don't even care anymore if he's evil or not-evil. He was best as police chief. If they aren't going to restore him to that capacity I say just kill him off. Now we know for sure that Goffman flat-out lied about the last episodes being Abbie's story. Even in course-correction Katrina is still central to all the action and Abbie's role is largely reactionary to the CFD. If all this convoluted, incoherent plotting results in Katrina finally being dead I'll get over it. 7 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo February 17, 2015 Author Share February 17, 2015 Now, while everyone is celebrating Henry's death, I hate to throw a wet blanket, but if someone can assuage my fears, I'd appreciate it. 1. He's in the opening credits 2. This whole "going back in time to when she was still pregnant with Jeremy" thing could mean...that the way they change the future is...Henry doesn't die. Like, a lot of the stuff winds up happening where Henry is abandoned, only there's little tweaks where he's...alive in the future. Being in the opening credits doesn't mean a character can't be killed off. It's been done on other shows so it's not impossible. Being in the opening credits as a regular cast member is about what your agent can negotiate for you and guarantees that you will be paid X amount for the season, but it doesn't guarantee that you will be alive for the entire season. 2. That is exactly Katrina's plan. She sent herself back in time so that she can do two things differently: let Ichabod die and keep Henry with her instead of letting him be buried alive. I totally loved Crane telling Henry that it's not his fault because he didn't even know Katrina was pregnant so there's nothing he could have done. Katrina is the one who chose not to tell Ichabod that she was pregnant and it was her coven that buried Henry alive. None of that is Ichabod's fault. 8 Link to comment
DearEvette February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I agree with everyone -- this episode was a mess. A big, meta, 'You know why we are doing this, we have to to fix stuff' mess. But I didn't care. Because it was all set up and at least it is starting to pull the show out of the crapper. - I liked the beginning with Ichabod and Abbie in the bookstore. His lamentation that the 'Man out of time' was such a trope and Abbie's name checking Dr. Who and Marty McFly. It later resonates with Katrina who says she 'never felt right' in this time and now Abbie who is her own 'man out of time' when the show ends. - When Abbie ends up on oldie Sleepy Hollow. I loved that whole beginning sequence -- I immediately recognized all the callbacks. And the 'Sympathy For The Devil' was the cherry on the cake. - It is a shame they wasted an entire season on trying to make Katrina this romantic foil for Ichabod and a spoiler for Ichabbie. They tried to stuff in one whole episode what they should have been doing all season long. I wrote in some other long post somewhere else on this forum, that contrasting Katrina's lack of adaptability to this era to Ichabod's fairly easy one, would have been a better plot point than the incessant damseling. Added to the knowledge that a lot of what she can do witchcraft-wise can be re-created through technology plus the closeness b/t Ichabod & Abbie should have made her more and more bitter so that her turn didn't feel like it was 'Welp, I'm evil now." but something we could see happening piece by piece. Seeing what they can do when forced to do it, I am even more pissed by the missed opportunities in this season. - I was so pissed they didn't destroy the bell! Although I did love the utter frustration in Ichabod's voice when he tells Henry he never knew about him. And Yes, I too added the silent 'Dumbass!' - So glad Henry is dead and Abbie killed him. SorryNotSorry! - And yes, i think he is really gone. The cast has been making sure to say that in the interviews - I am so excited for next week. But I do wonder how it will play out. Will we get 'our' Ichabod back when all is said and done? They can't keep Abbie in the 1780s too long, so they have to come back, but what will be changed? Will Corbin be alive? I would love for Clancy Brown to be a regular in S3. Can you imagine Abbie's reaction if she comes back and sees him? What would be perfect would be if they manage to kill Katrina in the 1780s and by default Henry again while in utero! 5 Link to comment
jenrising February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I KNOW many will not be happy with Abbie being considered a slave in the past. For now, we know she has no papers. Also think of the Nazi regimes and how certain people needed papers. From watching TURN (and reading the book), apparently even the white guys needed papers during that time. It's discrimination, and discrimination has occured throughout millenia. It is a reflection of human failings, so I don't want to slam it yet, in the sense of not addressing it. It is a reality that people had to face and needs to be addressed, so let's give it a chance. Assuming the writers did the tiniest bit of research (which is a huge leap, considering), they were most likely taking about her free papers, proof that she was not a runaway slave. Like others have said, this episode was a bit of a nonsensical mess, but if that's what it takes to get them back on the right track, I'll take it. 1 Link to comment
DeLurker February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 SH writers on Katrina turning evil: "Bitches be crazy, am I right?" Always choosing the stalest dullest path for her. Good thing she had these men showing her the right (wrong?) path. Making her the one driving events from the beginning, sabotaging the Witnesses at every turn was too much to ask. That would have explained her character inconsistencies, but who needs a good story, when you can have mediocrity instead? So the runaway slave plot for Abbie turned out to be accurate. Of course it was. Anyway, if it all ends up with Katrina and Henry definitely dead and with Moloch back in the game, I'm all for it, as long as they are not gross about it. The episode wasn't the best, but it was entertaining, whenever Henry and Katrina weren't showing their faces. 1 Crane down, one to go. I suspect KW's range limits were not up to one of the thousand more compelling stories they coulda/shoulda/woulda gone with. She had a pulse last night, but she is still high school drama club caliber if I am feeling generous.I'm still wary about Abbie back in time. Le sigh. Link to comment
Iboatedhere February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I spent a long time wanting Katrina to be evil and now that she is, I still don't really care. My biggest fear while watching this episode was that Katrina would be running a long con on Henry and turn around and kill him or destroy the bell or something. Thank god that didn't happen. Abbie had to know that when she wandered into 1781 things were not going to be easy for her. I expected her to get to her ancestors ASAP instead of just standing around in the town square. I'm excited for next week but I have no idea how they're going to fix this. 1 Link to comment
Jipijapa February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 "which is that John Noble's agent saw the ship going down and demanded a prompt and reasonably irreversible demise" I think his budding off-Broadway career has more to do with it, actually. Link to comment
Tippi Blevins February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Meanwhile, Headless is sitting in his shack, twiddling his thumbs or doing abdominal work, waiting for Katrina to keep her end of the promise to turn him human again. 9 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo February 17, 2015 Author Share February 17, 2015 (edited) Ha, realized the answer to my own question after I posted it! Nothing to see here. Edited February 17, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo Link to comment
pcta February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 , So Katrina did a spell to send her back in time AND also change her into period appropriate clothing? I guess I'm supposed to believe that Abbie is still in the same modern outfit because she hitched a ride and wasn't part of the original spell. Dumb. Well, let's see . . . Perhaps the spell dumped her new consciousness into her 18th century body - otherwise she's going to run into herself. 7 Link to comment
Mrs OldManBalls February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I'm confused about Irving. Jenny shot him and he recovered because he was all evil, then he coughs the evil out after Henry died and Jenny is hugging him but he goes sort of limp. He didn't revert back to mortal Irving and die right there? I don't know why I thought he did. I'm so glad I came on here to read everyone else's comments because I was so depressed. I just love Capt. Irving!! I was confused too, then I realized that was not watching Supernatural and the whole "the damaged meat suit dies after the demon smokes out" rule did not apply. ( I'm willing to give a lot of leeway to keep Orlando on the show.) At least KW showed some fire at the end. I was a little happy for Katrina to be honest. "See you can make the magic happen! You just need to be super pissed off!" Meanwhile, Headless is sitting in his shack, twiddling his thumbs or doing abdominal work, waiting for Katrina to keep her end of the promise to turn him human again. Where is he again? I last recall him being hit in the back with that angel halo. Loooooooooved the callbacks to the pilot, but I think Abbie might have a bit more of an issue being out of her element than Ichabod did, what with being a black female and all. She better find Grace a.s.a.p. Edited February 17, 2015 by Mrs OldManBalls 2 Link to comment
catrox14 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I spent a long time wanting Katrina to be evil and now that she is, I still don't really care. My biggest fear while watching this episode was that Katrina would be running a long con on Henry and turn around and kill him or destroy the bell or something. Thank god that didn't happen. Abbie had to know that when she wandered into 1781 things were not going to be easy for her. I expected her to get to her ancestors ASAP instead of just standing around in the town square. I'm excited for next week but I have no idea how they're going to fix this. I had the impression that Abbie didn't realize she had actually been dumped into the past immediately. I thought she thought she was in the midst some hard-core larping but then she read the document and saw the date and everyone side-eying her and the soldiers pulling their guns, she figured it out hence the "this is wrong on so many levels" comment and asking to see Crane. Plus give a girl 5 minutes to adapt. 5 Link to comment
catrox14 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I was confused too, then I realized that was not watching Supernatural and the whole "the damaged meat suit dies after the demon smokes out" rule did not apply. ( I'm willing to give a lot of leeway to keep Orlando on the show.) LOL. The meatsuit doesn't always die on SPN. If they use the demon knife yes it will kill the meatsuit or if the meatsuit was already damaged beyond repair, it's almost a mercy to kill the meatsuit. I can fanwank in Irving's case that his meatsuit hadn't been used for so long that he was horribly damaged beyond repair so he could survive it leaving his meatsuit. But yeah I totally thought of SPN when he horked up the black smoke and I thought so far SH has used consecrated rounds, smoke for demon stuff, and some other things that I was like....maybe we could just have a SH/SPN crossover episode and throw in some Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak and I would die a happy camper. I mean really could you imagine Ichabod trying to make sense of the Winchesters, especially Dean with his love of rock music, pie, burgers, women, the Impala? And what would Ichabod think of Castiel? And Ichabod wouldn't be the tallest guy in the room anymore with Sam around. Oh gods I need that badly now....surely there is some crossover fanfiction out there...... Edited February 17, 2015 by catrox14 3 Link to comment
Winnief February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 It is a shame they wasted an entire season on trying to make Katrina this romantic foil for Ichabod and a spoiler for Ichabbie. They tried to stuff in one whole episode what they should have been doing all season long. I wrote in some other long post somewhere else on this forum, that contrasting Katrina's lack of adaptability to this era to Ichabod's fairly easy one, would have been a better plot point than the incessant damseling. Added to the knowledge that a lot of what she can do witchcraft-wise can be re-created through technology plus the closeness b/t Ichabod & Abbie should have made her more and more bitter so that her turn didn't feel like it was 'Welp, I'm evil now." but something we could see happening piece by piece. Seeing what they can do when forced to do it, I am even more pissed by the missed opportunities in this season. Big Fat Word to all this! I thought one thing they did right, (but failed to really address later,) was KW's side eye when she sees Ichabbie holding hands before Abbie was dumped into Purgatory. It's a moment when she realizes she might well have been supplanted in her husband's life by the bond between the Witnesses and that, (and Katrina's obvious dislike for the 21st century,) could certainly have started her down a bad path if they chose. Oh well, truth be told I'm just relieved that they're *trying* to fix this mess and looking forward to Abbie's meeting with Crane next episode. I'm not saying I'm thrilled with the way they did it, but anyway to get things back on track is appreciated. Also, was it just me, or did Reporter Guy have much, MUCH better chemistry with Abbie than Hawley ever did?!? That might be...interesting in the future. 2 Link to comment
venusnv80 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 As long as these episodes accomplish what I want them to (dead Cranes), I don't care how they get there. 1 Link to comment
catrox14 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) As long as these episodes accomplish what I want them to (dead Cranes), I don't care how they get there. All the Cranes dead? Why kill off Ichabod? Wasn't the original premise to have the out of time white colonial soldier/spy and the modern black female police officer be witnesses to together? Doesn't killing off Ichabod destroy the entire premise? Edited February 17, 2015 by catrox14 Link to comment
Winnief February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 She didn't say ALL the Cranes dead-just dead Cranes. Aka Jeremy and Katrina. 2 Link to comment
MissAlmond February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I’m typing this offline with plans to submit when the certificate problem is resolved so pardon me if I say anything that has already been addressed. Yes, parts of this episode felt put together fast, but, again, FOX wanted things straightened out and there was only a limited time to do it. Let me repeat myself: Everybody BTS went along with the changes in Season 2. Goffman was driving the bus, but the directions were provided by Kurtzman and Orci. Some have included Iscove but, really, does anyone believe a newbie like Iscove has the power to overrule K and O? SH would have continued following that map until FOX came in as the GPS with demands to “recalculate” because only FOX had the power to do so. And when a GPS tells you to recalculate, it means now, not take the scenic route. I personally loved the recalculation. I figured Henry would bite the dust, that character never worked for me. I’m glad he’s dead. Sorry, John Noble. Really, you should have been the mayor. I’m glad Irving is “ok” and can now start writing his memoirs. I loved Evil Katrina and her turning on a dime for her child made sense to me. Happens all the time at PTA meetings. I loved the first ringing of the bell and the reactions of the hidden members of various covens. Here’s a hint SH, if you get a Season 3 develop the town. Use those bell ringing reactions as background noise for town gossip. The family members of the man whose wife brought her lover to his funeral is ripe for this. Frankly, I could have easily watched the aftermath of that revelation. But most of all, I loved Ichabod and Abbie. Never again be afraid of their chemistry, show! Just go with it. Together these two make the show. That chemistry is the reason people (including FOX) are willing to give SH a second chance. And, FTR, Abbie was not jailed for being a runaway slave. She was jailed for her own protection, as the soldiers felt she was “touched”. And since this was an re-echoing of Ichabod landing in the 21st century, Abbie looking relatives would not have worked. I personally thought the callback was brilliant. Still, I knew when watching this episode there would still be unhappiness. But my tea leaves always read FOX was sending out two signals: One, Ichabbie would happen and two, Katrina would live. It was obvious (to me) a live Katrina meant an evil one so I was prepared and not at all surprised. As a matter-of-fact, I’ve been waiting for SH to go with both scenarios so I’m cool. Like I said, SH and I have reconciled. My tea leaves now read the finale will do away with lovesick Abraham (the second permanent death) and Badass Headless will make his return. So bring it, SH. My bags are packed and I’m leaving therapy for good. Let the games of Season 3 begin and make my Monday nights complete again. 6 Link to comment
catrox14 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I have seen calls for Ichabod's death along with Henry and Katrina, so you'll forgive my reading dead Cranes as not specific to Henry and Katrina. Link to comment
cassandle February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Well, I thought I was officially done with this show but skimming through the comments there seem to be too many people here who liked this episode. Now I can't decide if I should watch it or not (and last week's episode that's still sitting in my DVR untouched). But I guess I should give it a try? Ugh. I'm not looking forward to getting pulled back in if everything's just gonna go to hell again next week. 1 Link to comment
DeLurker February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) Loooooooooved the callbacks to the pilot, but I think Abbie might have a bit more of an issue being out of her element than Ichabod did, what with being a black female and all. She better find Grace a.s.a.p. Plus, she's seen all the time traveler movies. And a Princess Bride call out - "never get in a land war in Asia". A Princess Bride reference is always a good thing in my book. While Katrina may have turned into Darth Mutter for Henry, when they were getting ready to ring the bell after talking about re-establishing a 1000 witch coven led by them, she said to him something along the lines of "Why stop here?". I did not like Henry's dying scene suggesting all he ever wanted was his family. That undermines some good work JN did establishing Henry as evil for evil's sake. Plus, the rather picturesque, Disneyesque fairy dust disintergration is way inappropriate for the Horseman of War. And damn it Orlando Jones & Lyndie Greenwood! I don't ship as a general rule, but I am thisclose to shipping you two! Edited February 17, 2015 by DeLurker 6 Link to comment
lil sweetpea February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I really liked the episode as a whole, but I wish the writers would decide what to do with Katrina and stick to it. It's like she agrees with whomever is standing in front of her at the moment. Henry: "Hey, Mom, I've decided we're going to create a new coven." Katrina: "But you sided with Moloch!" Henry: "Aw, that was a mistake. Come one, let's create a new coven." Katrina: "Okay." It's so frustrating. I agree that it seems the writers are trying to correct the mess they've made of this season, but I really hope they don't make it worse. 6 Link to comment
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