S02.E17: Awakening

[vanarnd1]

Like last week, this episode was kind of all over the place but the end result made it worthwhile. The Katrina/Henry scenes dragged the show down, but it resulted in Henry being dead and Katrina being fully evil so I am happy they got that all out of the way. To me this was a hasty effort to reset the show but it means that FOX is implementing the needed changes. I think Season 3 could still have some issues, but I am now hoping the show gets renewed so they have more time to try and fix things.

 

And for now I am not too worried about what they will do with Abbie being in the past. From the promo it seems like Abbie being in jail is mostly to set up the conversation between her and Ichabod to mirror the pilot and establish their connection. Also in the promo Ichabod and Abbie were walking and talking so I think she will be released pretty early on and her being a fugitive won't be a large part of the episode.

[phoenics]

Wow - haven't seen this much commentary on an episode in forever - and all of these familiar faces posting!! YES!

This episode fixed so much of the things we felt were wrong - I really do believe that the writers read the What Went Wrong with Sleepy Hollow thread...

Because when Ichabod started talking about being a man out of time and then said (as he read fiction) that he thought he was unique - I nearly squealed! That's what we've been saying!! I'm SO glad they put that in there - it was a small, but REALLY important nod - AND it fit in with making Abbie be a woman out of time at the end of the book (cause now she's Marty McFly!).

Ichabod with the Bobblehead - I died.

The scene with the 3 witches being awakened at the very beginning (Henry's incomplete spell) scared me... well, the part with the voice beyond the grave did.

Ichabbie working together and being totally in sync? Abbie brought the flint and steel, while Ichabod had the extra guns?! YES!!! Ichabod's hand porn working on Abbie's pocket (@ss)? Yeah!

Mr. and Mrs. BAMF running through tunnels in a shoot out that had me holding my breath - when Jenny shot Irving down, I knew he wouldn't die - I was worried she was gonna get shot herself! That hug at the end though... whew! That was definitely hot. All on the floor and stuff. And Frank Irving looked rather fine - I think he got a haircut - so fresh and so clean...!

Also - the town got bigger! There are more people in Sleepy Hollow than the Scooby Gang and Evil minions! Finally.

I hope that wasn't Quince Tea Ichabod was drinking with bookstore/library lady, lol.

Abbie's hair was super gorgeous in this episode.

SO GLAD Ichatrina is dead. DEAD DEAD DEAD! Glad Henry is dead - although it's obvious to me the issue wasn't John Noble's Henry. If they had just kept him as a sin eater who was evil, that would have worked fine - even had him as a horseman. But they did this whole CFD to give Katrina more screen time and make her "fit" and it just didn't work. The writers couldn't "make Katrina into relevant character" because she really was never supposed to be one. So - I did not CARE that her turn to evil seemed abrupt. I didn't care that it was rushed.

I didn't care. Hard U Turns are difficult.

But um - Katrina shooting a fireball at Abbie? Nope - bish has to die. Glad Abbie was the one to finish Henry off - even though FINALLY Ichabod was fully onboard!! Two times he tried to take him out... good job Ichy.

I will give Katia Winter some props for her angry/evil scenes. In my head canon, the actress was picturing Abbie, Miharie, and Ichabbie fans when she crushed Ichabod's neck. Oh and probably Tom Mison himself after that interview he gave saying that Ichabod was completely in love with her [Abbie]. Heh. When Katrina read that spell at the end to open the portal - she had scary voice going on and was actually somewhat chilling. They should have played her evil from the beginning - instead of trying to install her as the female lead over Abbie. The blank face works really well when you're evil. But now I fear it's too late for the character... I think Katrina will be toast in S3 (if we get one).

Ichabod's scream for "Leftenant!" when Abbie disappeared into the portal made my ovaries quiver. It was such a desperate scream - you really got that in that moment, Ichabod knew that Abbie was literally ALL he had. Henry was dead, Katrina was evil, Abbie's gone. Ichabod lost everything this episode. I'm excepting an epic reunion - unless they completely redo the time stream and present Ichabod doesn't remember any of this when Abbie comes back... I don't know how they plan to do the time thing.

The pilot parallel at the end was AMAZING. Abbie waking up like Ichabod. Abbie touching the road like Ichabod. Abbie almost getting run over by the "vehicle" of the times like Ichabod. And as far as parallels go - Abbie getting taken into custody like Ichabod and thought to be "crazy" like him was good. I liked the parallel - though of course they are glossing over slavery. I'm trying to tell myself that the North was different - but back then I'm not sure it was. Even Washington had slaves - pursued one escaped one up until his death.

But Abbie being a woman out of time was the scariest part of the episode for me - because I really didn't want to see - as someone else mentioned - 12 Years a Sleepy Hollow. And Abbie's reactions were absolutely priceless - "This is wrong on so many levels..."... but at least she kept her wits about her... and asked for Captain Ichabod Crane when she was put in jail.

I have no idea how this is gonna go... how they're gonna play the whole time reset button... but I'm here for it.

Oh! One more parallel - this time to the original Sleepy Hollow tale where Katrina leaves Ichabod for Abraham... this time they made her go evil and leave Ichabod for... her son! Well done show!

Edited February 17, 2015 by phoenics

[chrisvee]

That whole 'why stop at Sleepy Hollow' comment from Katrina just blew me away. Way to totally embrace your dark side, Kat!

I presumed her blank look in the mirror and the talking to her tummy meant that she shifted her 2015 consciousness into her 177? body but then where did the extra body go?? Katrina disappeared entirely from 2015.

Edited February 17, 2015 by chrisvee

[ChromaKelly]

I loved the Batshit Crazy of this episode. I am all on board Abbie in the past and evil Katrina. I was bracing myself all episode for Katrina to not be evil and to do something to save the day with the bell stuff, and then be all "You didn't trust me, Ichabod! How dare you!" and then more drama between them. I want Katrina and Ichabod to be done and over, no turning back, no redemption for her. I sincerely hope next season isn't all about saving Katrina. She tried to kill Abbie, that should be enough. She wasn't possessed or anything, so no excuses.
So much Ichabbie goodness in this ep too. Also glad Frank is back, although evil Frank was kind of hot.

[HalcyonDays]

I loved Evil Katrina and her turning on a dime for her child made sense to me.  Happens all the time at PTA meetings.

 

Hee. So true, so true. Honestly, it wasn't turning on a dime for me, it was more her finally embracing the dark side. She's been shady since day one, hiding information, failing to spy, killing Mary Wells, wanting to save Headless and Henry, even though they are murderers, plus undermining the Witnesses ever since she got back from Purgatory. She pretended to do things for the greater good, but we all know she didn't.

 

As for why the bell didn't call Abbie or Jenny. I think it only called those close to the Bell. And I think it only called witched prone to dark magic.

 

Yes, things moved fast but lets not complain. FOX and the show is seemingly fixing up the mess of a season. I really thought this was a good episode. Fast, crazy as usual, but things happened and Henry's done. Good. For anyone who hasn't watch it, definately do.

 

ETA: phoenics, your post was absolute gold!!

[phoenics]

Aww.. phoenics baby.... just rest and relax and log off this board. Sleep and drug yourself up. We'll be here when you wake!! ;')

Dunno if it was the show or all the medicine I took, but when I woke up this morning I felt much better - less head congestion, but more in my chest... but that's progress. I have to fly to Atlanta for a talk at Spelman so I really need to get well!  

 

Uh, a Leviosa spell??   (see Harry Potter..)

It's Levi-OOOOOOO-sa! Not Levio-SAAAAAAAAA!!

Edited February 17, 2015 by phoenics

[DeLurker]

I have a question:  If Abbie lurches onto Katrina to stop her from going back in time (I though she tried to tackle her), why does Katrina end up in the triage tent and Abbie outside of town?  Other than to give the awesome pilot parallel...

 

And I totally loved Katrina just up and walking away from treating severely wounded soldiers.  Gotta go - see ya!

[johntfs]

Personally, I want them to come back to Sleepy Hollow to find Hessians riding dinosaurs.

[kia112]

I will give Katia Winter some props for her angry/evil scenes. In my head canon, the actress was picturing Abbie, Miharie, and Ichabbie fans when she crushed Ichabod's neck. Oh and probably Tom Mison himself after that interview he gave saying that Ichabod was completely in love with her [Abbie]. Heh.

 

Huh?  What now?  Where's that?

[phoenics]

Hey, first time poster here.

 

I think sticking too closely to Season 1 is what caused the problem with Katrina in the first place.

Actually - once you understand that Katrina was supposed to die in the pilot (and then again at the end of S1), then the decision to keep Katrina around for S2 was actually a departure from the original season 1 plans.

Trying to force her onto the show resulted in the Season 2 disaster.

[Timetoread]

I’m typing this offline with plans to submit when the certificate problem is resolved so pardon me if I say anything that has already been addressed.

Yes, parts of this episode felt put together fast, but, again, FOX wanted things straightened out and there was only a limited time to do it.   Let me repeat myself: Everybody BTS went along with the changes in Season 2.   Goffman was driving the bus, but the directions were provided by Kurtzman and Orci.  Some have included Iscove but, really, does anyone believe a newbie like Iscove has the power to overrule K and O?   SH would have continued following that map until FOX came in as the GPS with demands to “recalculate” because only FOX had the power to do so.  And when a GPS tells you to recalculate, it means now, not take the scenic route. 

 

I personally loved the recalculation.  I figured Henry would bite the dust, that character never worked for me.  I’m glad he’s dead.  Sorry, John Noble.  Really, you should have been the mayor.  I’m glad Irving is “ok” and can now start writing his memoirs.  I loved Evil Katrina and her turning on a dime for her child made sense to me.  Happens all the time at PTA meetings.  I loved the first ringing of the bell and the reactions of the hidden members of various covens.  Here’s a hint SH, if you get a Season 3 develop the town.  Use those bell ringing reactions as background noise for town gossip.  The family members of the man whose wife brought her lover to his funeral is ripe for this.  Frankly, I could have easily watched the aftermath of that revelation. 

 

But most of all, I loved Ichabod and Abbie.  Never again be afraid of their chemistry, show!  Just go with it.  Together these two make the show.  That chemistry is the reason people (including FOX) are willing to give SH a second chance.  And, FTR, Abbie was not jailed for being a runaway slave.  She was jailed for her own protection, as the soldiers felt she was “touched”.  And since this was an re-echoing of Ichabod landing in the 21st century, Abbie looking relatives would not have worked.   I personally thought the callback was brilliant. 

 

Still, I knew when watching this episode there would still be unhappiness.  But my tea leaves always read  FOX was sending out two signals: One, Ichabbie would happen and two, Katrina would live. It was obvious (to me) a live Katrina meant an evil one so I was prepared and not at all surprised.  As a matter-of-fact, I’ve been waiting for SH to go with both scenarios so I’m cool. Like I said, SH and I have reconciled.   My tea leaves now read the finale will do away with lovesick Abraham (the second permanent death) and Badass Headless will make his return.  So bring it, SH.  My bags are packed and I’m leaving therapy for good.  Let the games of Season 3 begin and make my Monday nights complete again.

 

Love this!  Particularly the line about PTA meetings.  I worry that too much complaining sets this thing up for fail.  They had a direction that they wanted to go in and set up but it got nixed and they had to do a 180.  In three episodes they got rid of Hawley, brought back Jenny, killed Henry and lost the Horsemen.  That's a lot and of course it will feel clumsy but short of making somebody wake up and the whole second season was a dream, what else could they do.

 

I'm willing to give Whisper Witch another chance if her role is no longer "to be the beautiful girl Ichabod fell in love with", and instead be the woman who turned down the most eligible bachelor, seduced his friend, was a player in the coven of the day, and brought Ichabod back to life - in a nutshell, the beautiful woman that Ichabod NEVER knew.  She's lived for many years in hell while he was asleep - there should be no resemblance at all to who he thought he knew.  I can buy that while she was against Moloch's plan to end the world and the husband she saved, that Henry would take priority over Ichabod with her and, since she's finding herself having to fight this other broad for his time and attention, her deciding that in a choice between Henry and Ich, Ich loses.  If they can tell this story with skill and if KW can execute it (I'm also willing to give her another chance because they haven't given her much to act with, she's been nothing but eye candy and exposition), then I think they can make it work.

[DeLurker]

Does Abbie killing Henry make her the Horseman of War?  Is it like tag?

[phoenics]

Hee. So true, so true. Honestly, it wasn't turning on a dime for me, it was more her finally embracing the dark side. She's been shady since day one, hiding information, failing to spy, killing Mary Wells, wanting to save Headless and Henry, even though they are murderers, plus undermining the Witnesses ever since she got back from Purgatory. She pretended to do things for the greater good, but we all know she didn't.

This is now officially my head canon.

As for why the bell didn't call Abbie or Jenny. I think it only called those close to the Bell. And I think it only called witched prone to dark magic.

I love this - except Frank intimated that Cynthia and Macey would be called too... :(

Yes, things moved fast but lets not complain. FOX and the show is seemingly fixing up the mess of a season. I really thought this was a good episode. Fast, crazy as usual, but things happened and Henry's done. Good. For anyone who hasn't watch it, definately do.

 

ETA: phoenics, your post was absolute gold!!

Thank you! Drugs are my friend!

Huh?  What now?  Where's that?

Enjoy.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/sleepy-hollow-abbie-vs-katrina-ichabod/

[GracieV]

The ratings were better this week: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/02/17/tv-ratings-monday-gotham-sleepy-hollow-the-originals-rise-the-celebrity-apprentice-finale-up-castle-jane-the-virgin-steady/363732/  

Sleepy Hollow garnered a 1.4, up 17 percent from last week's series low 1.2 adults 18-49 rating

These are the preliminaries, so they may adjust up or down but hopefully Fox will think their adjustments to the show are improving the audience numbers and will give it another season. This non renewal/network tinkering is reminding me of Almost Human...

[MissAlmond]

The ratings were better this week: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/02/17/tv-ratings-monday-gotham-sleepy-hollow-the-originals-rise-the-celebrity-apprentice-finale-up-castle-jane-the-virgin-steady/363732/  

These are the preliminaries, so they may adjust up or down but hopefully Fox will think their adjustments to the show are improving the audience numbers and will give it another season. This non renewal/network tinkering is reminding me of Almost Human...

 

        Well, not exactly.  FOX didn't own "Almost Human" so there was no long term benefit for them there.  FOX owns SH which is why they had the power to put put the brakes on but also the reason they're even willing to give SH a second chance.

[DearEvette]

Maybe the bell only called  a particular coven?  I didn't get the impression that back in the day Katrina's coven was evil -- they did kill Serilda who was evil.  But Rev. Knapp wasn't evil either. 

 

In all the giddiness of Henry being dead but a pregnant Katrina still being alive next week --I think it is important to remember --  if we don't want a reset of CFD one of three things has to happen:

 

1 - Katrina loses the baby next week

2- Katrina dies next week

3- Jumped back Katrina is current timeline Katrina not 1780s Katrina and isn't pregnant at all. 

 

I like the last scenario the best.  It makes the most sense in the grand scheme of things, after all she is the one that did the traveling (like Abbie) her memories are intact (unlike the 1780s Ichabod we will encounter) .  And if they plan on keeping Katrina around the inescapable truth of Henry's death will continue to be the catalyst to her rage. 

Edited February 17, 2015 by DearEvette

[Iboatedhere]

Didn't Henry say the bell would call the ancestors of the makers of the original bell?

[FierceAfroChick]

I recorded an ep of SH for the first time in forever and now will watch it based on all the positive comments here.  I can barely watch Katrina though, so it’ll be hard not to fast forward.

[HalcyonDays]

Maybe the bell only called  a particular coven?  I didn't get the impression that back in the day Katrina's coven was evil -- they did kill Serilda who was evil.  But Rev. Knapp wasn't evil either. 

 

In all the giddiness of Henry being dead but a pregnant Katrina still being alive next week --I think it is important to remember --  if we don't want a reset of CFD one of three things has to happen:

 

1 - Katrina loses the baby next week

2- Katrina dies next week

3- Jumped back Katrina is current timeline Katrina not 1780s Katrina and isn't pregnant at all. 

 

I like the last scenario the best.  It makes the most sense in the grand scheme of things, after all she is the one that did the traveling (like Abbie) her memories are intact (unlike the 1780s Ichabod we will encounter) .  And if they plan on keeping Katrina around the inescapable truth of Henry's death will continue to be the catalyst to her rage. 

 

Katrina touches her belly when she realizes she's in the past, so I think she's knocked up. And wanting to kill Ichabod won't help her get knocked up if she isn't already. Just saying. *grin* I think she'll not be killed off. Instead, she'll stay in the past, raise the kid, and they both live normal - not evil - lives.

 

Abbie will somehow be "killed" and put in stasis to awake in the future, or Ichabod is the one who dies, and like a repeat, wakes in 2015. I still maintain if the show is offically not renewed (i.e. they already knew that, so this finale episode was written as a series finale), Ichabod will die in the 1780s and that's end. End of series.

 

I'm just trying to figure out where that epic hug comes into play. Is it a reunion hug in 2015, or a goodbye hug in the 1700s.

[Happytobehere]

I did have a few questions (well, really more than a few, cuz there were plot holes galore, but I'll limit myself to one - So, does this mean any yahoo can do magic with the right spell? Neither Abbie or Jenny were effected with the other latent witches, but they both have performed magic this season. Did that all mean nothing?!? I'm really disappointed by that.

Also, tiny personal pet peeve: I hate being able to see magic. I'd rather just see the effects on a victim instead of seeing a ball or streak of magic hitting things. It's just goofy looking.

I took the comments about the coven to mean that those connected to the coven via bloodline would be effected. I actually like this becuase it adds another layer to Irving's placement on the show. Instead of being a random guy who showed up following Corbin's death and the unfortunate person on the receiving end of Henry's madness, he can now be someone with a deeper connection to the goings on of the mythos of the show and as a result, his character is now more integrated into the storyline. Also, the possibility of latent evil via coven bloodline is interesting.

Along those same lines, Grace Dixon was not a part of Katrina's coven. If I am not mistaken, some mention was made in a previous episode of Grace's magic being handed down by the ancestors, which predates her presence in Sleepy Hollow and means that Abbie and Jenny can have magic without being connected to or effected by that which is designed to awaken the off-spring of Katrina's coven. In addition, such a coven break actually aligns quite well with Season One where there were repeated references to Good Coven and Bad Coven. It can now be retconned that by going back in time and whatever her actions will be Katrina lays the framework for what she and some new characters to be introduced to represent Bad Coven and Abbie/Jenny and any additional characters they choose to add and connect to them represent Good Coven.

However, I am doubling down on what I said last night. KW lacks the acting chops to pull off anything more than a cursory recurring role on the show, and unless the current showrunners are replaced, Grossman and company will continue to find away to make their collective wet dream the center of the show. They will squander a potential Season Three and any good will that remains for the show.

As for the remaining departure, I too believe it will be Abraham. Let's not forget that the actor who plays Headless is not the actor who plays Abraham. Getting rid of Abraham does not mean getting rid of Headless. Something could happen that still creates Headless, but precludes Abraham from ever returning. I like the idea of a return to Badass, machine gun toting, head-chopping Headless that we fell for in Season One.

I personally would like to see the return of Luke, Andy and the character played day James Frain (remember he was the descendant of the Masons). Perhaps the time travel and whatever messing will go in there will result in changes to those characters. I am especially interested in the return of Corbin, if only for a little while since Jefferson stated Corbin was slated to be Abby's mentor because she was slated to be the second witness. Perhaps the return of Corbin allows Abby and Ichabod to access the knowledge that Corbin had, which Team Witness definitely needs.

All-in-all, the episode was problematic because as I stated Goffman and Comapny can't seem to let go of the ghost of their high hopes for Katrina. Based on what we got, the same story could have been told last night with Katrina getting a reduced part and either Ichabod and Abby or the goings on in the town getting more airtime. As was noted upthread, some of the issues that are brewing under the surface in Sleepy Hollow could have been used to begin to set the stage for expanding the world of Sleepy Hollow should there be a Season Three.

On a side note, I like the wild-card Irving might prove to be. If Irving is alive, the question of why needs to be addressed. He was shot multiple times and once evil spirit left, why did he not die? Is there some residual evil there that is linked to his connection to the lineage of the coven? If so, how, when and why will this dormant factor come into play?

Edited February 17, 2015 by Happytobehere

[johntfs]

Didn't Henry say the bell would call the ancestors of the makers of the original bell?

No. the bell will awaken magical power in those predisposed to it.  Those predisposed to it are likely to be the descendents of Katrina's original coven.  Remember the end of Buffy when Willow did the spell that gave every slayer potential actual Slayer powers?  This was like that, except for witches.

 

I will say that I found Henry and Katrina's "super-coven" plan to be somewhat laughable.  Really?  You're going to give magic superpowers to a bunch of modern people and then just expect them to do what you say?  Good luck with that one.

[Sparkling Beth]

 

Henry to Katrina: "We would be the most powerful coven. No longer would witches be hunted and burned."

 

When was the last time you heard of anyone hunting or burning a witch in modern America?

We haven't, but Katrina's experience with society's behavior toward witches has to still be vivid in her mind, and this was a way for Henry to manipulate her into doing what he wants.  She never tried to fit in with the modern world at all, so it seems reasonable to me that she would pretty much ignore what was actually happening around her and instead think only of the world from which she came. 

 

 

Honestly, it wasn't turning on a dime for me, it was more her finally embracing the dark side. She's been shady since day one, hiding information, failing to spy, killing Mary Wells, wanting to save Headless and Henry, even though they are murderers, plus undermining the Witnesses ever since she got back from Purgatory. She pretended to do things for the greater good, but we all know she didn't.

Thank you!  I wanted to say something similar but couldn't think of all the examples I wanted to use.  You summed it up nicely.  I think Katrina has always had an evil side and is easily manipulated--a really dangerous combination that led to her going along with her son, over whom she feels a lot of guilt anyway.  She's a character with little backbone so Henry had no trouble appealing to her desire for some power once in her miserable, weak little life.

[DearEvette]

Katrina touches her belly when she realizes she's in the past, so I think she's knocked up. And wanting to kill Ichabod won't help her get knocked up if she isn't already. Just saying. *grin* I think she'll not be killed off. Instead, she'll stay in the past, raise the kid, and they both live normal - not evil - lives.

 

Given how the whole thing feels slapped together then it is probable the writers haven't given a lot of thought to Time Travel -- but I am hoping -- that the touch to her stomach is only wishful thinking once she realizes that the spell worked and she's back in the 1780s.  Maybe she is just presuming that everything worked and everything is ready to be reset and she is assuming she's pregnant again.  I think it would be an interesting development, and good from a storyline perspective for her to come to the awful realization that she isn't pregnant.  Not to go all Star Trek:TNG, but one theory is that time travel creates alternate timelines.  So this isn't the same timeline, this could a whole other timeline created because of the time traveling.

Edited February 17, 2015 by DearEvette

[Jamoche]

I've always thought that the things Katrina did only made sense if she was evil, glad to see the writers have finally noticed what they've inadvertently been doing.

[venusnv80]

All the Cranes dead?   Why kill off Ichabod?  Wasn't the original premise  to have the out of time white colonial soldier/spy and the modern black female police officer be witnesses to together?   Doesn't killing off Ichabod destroy the entire premise?

Umm I meant Jeremy and Katrina.

[chrisvee]

I have a question:  If Abbie lurches onto Katrina to stop her from going back in time (I though she tried to tackle her), why does Katrina end up in the triage tent and Abbie outside of town?  Other than to give the awesome pilot parallel...

Katrina's spell made her conscious and aware of her future in her 18th century body and so she went where the body was. Abbie has no 18th century body so she got spit out on the town border lol. I guess Katrina'a other body is just floating around the ether...

[blixie]

Yeah I didn't love it, I realize they are still trying to right the Titanic, but honestly I thought Katia/Katrina was as awful and limp as ever, and CFD bored me as much as ever. Yes what we got of Ichabbie was amazing, but I'm still profoundly uncomfortable with Abbie in Colonial slavery America. Nothing about her being a woman out of time has the same light fun verve of Ichabod in the future, given that historical context. 

 

I do like the idea of changing the time line and hopefully stranding Kadreena there for good, but I'm not counting those chickens before they roost. 

[chrisvee]

 

In all the giddiness of Henry being dead but a pregnant Katrina still being alive next week --I think it is important to remember --  if we don't want a reset of CFD one of three things has to happen:

 

1 - Katrina loses the baby next week

2- Katrina dies next week

3- Jumped back Katrina is current timeline Katrina not 1780s Katrina and isn't pregnant at all. 

Couldn't Katrina just raise Jeremy herself? Whether she succeeds or fails with Ichabod, she still has a small baby to raise and she has to avoid doing anything that gets her separated from him or that attracts Moloch's attention. If she gives him a happy life by fleeing the continent for Europe for example, might they not just live out a natural life then die long before 2014? Maybe Present!Day Ichabod will suddenly find himself with descendants in S3. :)

[BestestAuntEver]

As previously stated, some things were choppy and didn't make sense yet it was worth it in order to see the show making needed changes, IMO.

Loved all the Ichabbie scenes and their (Ichabod's) actions matching all the pretty words.

Mr. and Mrs. BAMF were truly badasses. Can't believe we were stuck with Katrina, Hawley, Henry and CFD over having Frank and Jenny on screen.

I'm actually excited to see next week's episode.

[fantique]

Just caught up since yesterday was President's Day... I was bored. All I can describe this last third of the season is: cop out. They want the results without putting in the work. They thought they would just give us the results without a believable journey and it's mess. It's all unearned and rushed. All we needed were signs of recovery, not hastily written conclusions. The storylines covered since January should've taken up 2/3 of the show, not 1/3. Katrina's descent should have been more drawn out, Irving's wishy-washy I'm evil, but I'm not, but I am was tiring and ridiculous. It was embarrassing and unnecessary. Funnily while catching up, I thought: "Oh they are totes going to send Abbie to an alternate timeline where the Headless wasn't stopped, the British won and there is chaos abound". Wasn't that far off. At least this is an easy way to start off fresh if they have another season (doubtful) but watch me be wrong and next week she is back to the present and they will conclude her story way too quickly like they always do. Sigh

 

Also, why the hell are all witches suddenly evil? Why would Katrina's coven being back a bad thing? They were the relatively good guys. That was stupid. I wanted them to ring the damn bell and have a witch war on their hands as all those witches' descendants break off into factions. That would've way more fun.

[blixie]

 

Couldn't Katrina just raise Jeremy herself?

 

As much as I hate Katrina, I do think this is her plan and that would alter the time line, but probably not by much....? Because Moloch can always find someone else to be War( man do I still hate the idea that the Horsemen are actual human beings with remote control avatars...?)

 

I don't expect they'll follow any kind of time travel logic such as it is, hee. So while Abbie who isn't born yet is there physically,  there is only one physical Katrina in the 1780's and I'd assume it is her 1780's body (ergo pregnant) but her Purgatory banished, future experienced consciousness. RME.

 

ETA:

 

 

Why would Katrina's coven being back a bad thing? They were the relatively good guys.

 

I agree generally, but I think it's that they were being deprived of free will and informed choice regarding having their powers, and there was an insinuation they were being awakened and controlled like puppets by Henry/Katrina.

Edited February 17, 2015 by blixie

[catrox14]

 

RE: Supernatural and the meatsuits. In early seasons, they made a point of never killing a possessed person, because there was just some poor shlub who happened to have the misfortune of being used, so they would try to do more the Jenny method, which is find a way for the demon to leave the body. Then at some point they stopped caring they were killing innocent people. I guess the Winchesters are so hot, people don't care.

 

They couldn't have had Sam's  Hand of Ipecac and the great war between Sam and Dean of s4 if they didn't introduce the demon knife. And they have exorcised meatsuits. I think the rationale/fanwank is that depending on how long and how much damage the meatsuit suffered and experienced whilst being possessed they may never be okay again, hence my comment that sometimes it's a mercy killing. They even did an episode revisiting what happened to one person that was possessed.  So yeah they kill more meatsuits that most shows but here I think I can fanwank Frank was not so bad off that he should have dropped dead right away once the demon left him.

[Artsda]

Well that ending was interesting, they had a lot happen in the last half abruptly, but I'll take it. It's like Fox mandated, fix everything in this episode.

 

Abbie killed Henry.

Irving is normal.

Fun Target scene with Crane/Abbie.

Katrina's gone full bad/evil, even wishing Crane dead.

Abbie's gone to the past, interesting ending.

[phoenics]

Katrina's spell made her conscious and aware of her future in her 18th century body and so she went where the body was. Abbie has no 18th century body so she got spit out on the town border lol. I guess Katrina'a other body is just floating around the ether...

I like to think of Katrina's other body as dead. No need for a divorce, lol.

[chrisvee]

Plus Frank's demonic body healed the bullet wounds from Jenny before he was killed so he doesn't have to die fom those wounds. The rune probably protected him from typical meat suit damage too.

I like thinking of Katrina's other body as dead as well lol. I'm sure if she just successfully raises her son and we never hear from her or him again, I will let bygones be bygones.

They have a lot to do in an ep -- de-Abraham Headless, defeat Headless without Crane dying, kill Crane in some fashion that allows him to be revived in present day, and figure out how to get Abbie back.

Edited February 17, 2015 by chrisvee

[phoenics]

Couldn't Katrina just raise Jeremy herself? Whether she succeeds or fails with Ichabod, she still has a small baby to raise and she has to avoid doing anything that gets her separated from him or that attracts Moloch's attention. If she gives him a happy life by fleeing the continent for Europe for example, might they not just live out a natural life then die long before 2014? Maybe Present!Day Ichabod will suddenly find himself with descendants in S3. :)

Sometimes I wonder if they aren't going to have Katrina burned at the stake for witchcraft.

[DearEvette]

Couldn't Katrina just raise Jeremy herself? Whether she succeeds or fails with Ichabod, she still has a small baby to raise and she has to avoid doing anything that gets her separated from him or that attracts Moloch's attention. If she gives him a happy life by fleeing the continent for Europe for example, might they not just live out a natural life then die long before 2014? Maybe Present!Day Ichabod will suddenly find himself with descendants in S3. :)

 

True.  But my original problem with any 'Jeremy is alive' scenario is that it puts us right back where S2 started... namely the still open possibility of Crane family drama to be revisited.   New Ichabod Crane with no memory of old Henremy will have the same reaction to finding out eventually he has a son somewhere.  To get around that entire possibility...ever... we need Jeremy to be dead.  Never alive.  etc.

[phoenics]

I'm happy with the U-Turn.

Slow and steady at this point was just hemorrhaging fans. Folks also weren't going to consider coming back without a HUUUUGEEE gesture from the writers. They had to prove - and FAST - that they were course-correcting. Showing all of the buildup wouldn't have worked because they would have had to give KW even more screen time and nobody was here for that.

[chrisvee]

True.  But my original problem with any 'Jeremy is alive' scenario is that it puts us right back where S2 started... namely the still open possibility of Crane family drama to be revisited.   New Ichabod Crane with no memory of old Henremy will have the same reaction to finding out eventually he has a son somewhere.  To get around that entire possibility...ever... we need Jeremy to be dead.  Never alive.  etc.

I don't see that being a necessary outcome of Jeremy living. There's no reason that Ichabod won't retain all his prior memories plus the new ones he makes in the past with Abbie and Jeremy could live out a normal, happy lifespan in the past so that neither he nor Katrina are ever part of the present again.

[DeLurker]

I've always thought that the things Katrina did only made sense if she was evil, glad to see the writers have finally noticed what they've inadvertently been doing.

With regards to "inadvertently":  I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Katrina's spell made her conscious and aware of her future in her 18th century body and so she went where the body was. Abbie has no 18th century body so she got spit out on the town border lol. I guess Katrina'a other body is just floating around the ether...

Ahhh...makes sense that way. Thanks!

[cynic]

The thing with Irving is just weird to me, because he supposedly died. It seems to me that he should only be "alive" because of Henry's magic and thus should have died with Henry. If Henry actually resurrected Irving completely as a live human who is just possessed, then he is way more powerful than I thought and poor Andy got a really bum deal from Moloch.

[vanarnd1]

I'm happy with the U-Turn.

Slow and steady at this point was just hemorrhaging fans. Folks also weren't going to consider coming back without a HUUUUGEEE gesture from the writers. They had to prove - and FAST - that they were course-correcting. Showing all of the buildup wouldn't have worked because they would have had to give KW even more screen time and nobody was here for that.

 

I agree there was no way they could have ended this season with Katrina's motives still in doubt. The show couldn't afford to spend any more time trying to build on her character and it was the right choice to turn her evil as soon as possible. I am not sure if she would still be on the show in a possible season 3, but having her be clearly against Ichabod was the most important step in moving things forward and I am think it will get more people interested in the finale next week. Better to do it hastily than not at all IMO..

[kminfinity]

I'm with those who enjoyed the episode, especially for its determination to course correct in preparation for S3. 

 

There were a lot of great things people already have noted, especially the grounded relationships between Abbie and Ichabod, and Jenny and Frank.  I'm sorry to lose John Noble, who could have been awesome as Sin Eater Henry, no-relation-to-CFD.  But it's better to lose him than keep even the ghost of the CDF in play.  And close the door FAST on any supernatural resurrection, the way the door was closed on Tara in BtVS.  I suggest his return after defeating Moloch used up his last life or somesuch.

 

I do disagree with people who thought Katrina's sudden flipflop to evil was out of nowhere.  First, I don't think she was ever well developed enough as a Team Witness ally.  More important, I think her late-game actions are, by her standards, not evil but justified.  It makes sense to me that when Henry returned, she decided to place him ahead of any priority.  So, then it follows that she decided to commit to Henry's cause, and 'accept her roots' so to speak.  Both of those plot points could have been handled more smoothly and sold more easily by a better actress, but ->

 

I'm happy with the U-Turn.

Slow and steady at this point was just hemorrhaging fans. Folks also weren't going to consider coming back without a HUUUUGEEE gesture from the writers. They had to prove - and FAST - that they were course-correcting. Showing all of the buildup wouldn't have worked because they would have had to give KW even more screen time and nobody was here for that.

 

Yes.  The story was hurt by two things - The plot was rushed, being course-correction rather than organically developed from the beginning; and KW just can't sell subtlety, let alone ambiguity and confused plotting.  But this is a far better place we're in with the show than we were when S2 began.

[spaceghostess]

 

All I can describe this last third of the season is: cop out. They want the results without putting in the work. They thought they would just give us the results without a believable journey and it's mess. It's all unearned and rushed. All we needed were signs of recovery, not hastily written conclusions. The storylines covered since January should've taken up 2/3 of the show, not 1/3. Katrina's descent should have been more drawn out, Irving's wishy-washy I'm evil, but I'm not, but I am was tiring and ridiculous. It was embarrassing and unnecessary

 

 

I'm happy with the U-Turn.

Slow and steady at this point was just hemorrhaging fans. Folks also weren't going to consider coming back without a HUUUUGEEE gesture from the writers. They had to prove - and FAST - that they were course-correcting. Showing all of the buildup wouldn't have worked because they would have had to give KW even more screen time and nobody was here for that.

I wish we could have gotten the well-crafted recovery you described, fantique, but have to agree with phoenics that the showrunners and writers dug themselves way too deep a hole for it. Only a writing backhoe could solve the problem they created, so they broke that sucker out, and I'm willing to deal if it gets us back on somewhat solid ground for (fingers crossed) season 3.

 

RE: Supernatural and the meatsuits.

= Band name.

[tpel]

Yep -- giant mess of an episode, but one that may position the show to dig itself out of the greater mess it has become, so it could be worth it.

 

I don't care what happens in the rest of the episode, I loved the cats in the bookstore. :)

 

 

This! And what I loved even more was the scene where we get glimpses of various potential witches being briefly awakened, and bookstore lady was one of them. She's into obscure knowledge and likes to be surrounded by cats -- totally a witch! (I write this in my book-filled room, with two cats curled up next to me ;-)

[CocoaGoddess]

Okay, I watched this last night and tweeted a bit, but I needed to get my feelings and emotions together.

 

I agree with what everyone else has been saying on both sides--I both loved it and it frustrated me, because it took the most extreme circumstances for this lazy ass showrunning team to finally pull their heads from their collective asses and WRITE, and we've all suffered unncessarily. This should have been building up ALL SEASON, from the moment they bungled up the Moloch story (they couldn't even allow our team the honor of actually stopping the apocalypse, I will NEVER forgive them for that!), this should have been the path.

 

Katrina thinking that she'd lost Henry for good, slowly causing her to go mad. This would have kept her away from the Witnesses, allowed Ichabod to focus on his job and rebuilding his life, and keeping Abbie front and center as the ass kicking Queen that she was meant to be.

 

The consistent B-plot truly should have been about Irving and the battle for his freaking soul. The fake death, the stupid amulet that made him "human" when the plot called for it, his deteriorating relationship with Team Witness and his family as they grow more suspicious of him, sneaking around with Henry while Abbie is forced to do his bidding because he should have still been her boss--THIS should have been his story! God, I'm so ANGRY that so much time was wasted on demon babies and Hawley, when we had the true meat of the story all along! Lyndie and Orlando have CRAZY chemistry, and this could have been a way for the writers to explore that (giving them the great romance that they seem so desperate to write), and keeping the original cast involved, front and center. 

 

Of course it's too late for all of that now, but I think of the possibilities and all of these wonderful themes and tropes used in last night's episode, and I can't even believe that they wasted so many opportunities. I'm not sure if I can ever trust these writers to do the right thing from here on out.

 

That being said ...

 

I have to move on, I get that. So I will acknowledge that the episode kept me on the edge of my bed and the sudden course correction is one I can get behind if it means the show is renewed, refreshed, and set on the right path once again. 

 

It kind of felt like an apology letter to the fans--yes, even Ichatrina fans--and I suppose I have no choice but to accept it, so some positives:

I love John Noble. I am a Fringe fanatic and seeing Henry getting shot through the heart made the Walter Bishop fan in me cringe a bit--but Jenry was NO Walter, and his death was half of a two part sacrifice necessary for FIXING THIS SHOW. My favorite, FAVORITE scene of the night was a very fed up, very exasperated Ichabod basically echoing the thoughts of probably every tv viewer watching, "No one abandoned you Henry ... you little shit!" If this was an HBO show, of course, but still, the unspoken insult did not get past many of us, and I appreciated that. 

I don't like kids on my primetime shows, and that goes for Tweenior Citizens and their Mummy/Daddy issues. There really was no place for Jenry here, and his time was up. Good riddance, burn or don't burn in hell--I simply don't care anymore. BYE. 

 

The whiff of desperation from the writers! "We haven't forgotten about Abbie, Jenny, their ancestors, the Dixons, etc."  But PROVE IT.
So they toss out a casual reference of the petrified Dixon statue left down in the caves, promising an exploration of that story and that character if the show is renewed. I APPROVE.

Legacy Witches being awoken in Sleepy Hollow, expanding the universe and giving the characters a chance to interact and have dialogue with more than the same five people every week. I APPROVE.

Abbie and Ichabod mentioning the text from Jefferson's hide out, and actively seeking down the information that they lost. I APPROVE. 

Katrina irrevocably blowing up her spot, her place on the show, her place in Ichabod's life--I APPROVE.

 

At this point, I don't even care how we got here, we're here and that's all that matters. If the show continues on in the future and will be great again, I can just pretend that season 2 doesn't even exist. Like season 6 of Supernatural. 

 

I'm excited for next week, and I want to see Abbie be the hero and FIX EVERYTHING that the Cranes screwed up. I get from here and on Twitter that people didn't like that Abbie was being so aggressive with her 18th century apprehenders, but for once, I kind of see where the writing team was going with this. It's a very sensitive topic, yet this is still a fantasy show. I know how bad things WOULD have been for her back then, but I don't care to watch it play out, I'm not here to watch Abbie being Solomon Northup'd. No girl, no. Abbie is a natural fighter and it was in character for her to question what was happening and to not be totally submissive and on her knees, kneeling before these dudes. I don't want them to pick THIS story to suddenly decide that historical accuracy is a thing on this show, no thank you. 

 

Finally, I'm a little bit sad. I get that this had to happen, a reset is desperately needed--but this is the last time we're going to see THAT Ichabod and THAT Jenny and Irving, and no matter what, if/when Abbie gets back to present day, they will be totally different versions of themselves, and that makes me despair. I don't want Abbie to be Marty McFly, and remembering certain events that happened in her life that she won't be able to share with anyone else, because those events never happened to them. I'm hoping that the writers will figure out a way to preserve the first season of this show, while eliminating what happened in the second? Possible? 

[BigEasygirl]

A flawed but fairly solid episode. Irving and Jenny (along with some fine work by John Noble) stole the show and were the highlight. The fact that Henry's death, as most of us were hoping, freed Irving was a truly satisfying moment. I couldn't help but scream, "Yes!" Loved watching Irving's body purge itself of that evil because I really didn't want him to be evul. I'm really hopeful now. One down and one to go. And with Katrina gone (and her tiresome necklace), so is Abraham.

[DeLurker]

Just caught up since yesterday was President's Day... I was bored. All I can describe this last third of the season is: cop out. They want the results without putting in the work. They thought they would just give us the results without a believable journey and it's mess. It's all unearned and rushed. All we needed were signs of recovery, not hastily written conclusions. The storylines covered since January should've taken up 2/3 of the show, not 1/3. Katrina's descent should have been more drawn out, Irving's wishy-washy I'm evil, but I'm not, but I am was tiring and ridiculous. It was embarrassing and unnecessary. Funnily while catching up, I thought: "Oh they are totes going to send Abbie to an alternate timeline where the Headless wasn't stopped, the British won and there is chaos abound". Wasn't that far off. At least this is an easy way to start off fresh if they have another season (doubtful) but watch me be wrong and next week she is back to the present and they will conclude her story way too quickly like they always do. Sigh

 

Also, why the hell are all witches suddenly evil? Why would Katrina's coven being back a bad thing? They were the relatively good guys. That was stupid. I wanted them to ring the damn bell and have a witch war on their hands as all those witches' descendants break off into factions. That would've way more fun.

You're not wrong, but short of sending us all into a time traveling spell prior to the writing and filming of This is War (S2 Ep 1) there wasn't much they could do.  Granted it wasn't particularly gracious or fluid, but...they seriously need to be kissing the collective arses of NB, TM, LG and Orlando because without their charm and appeal this wouldn't have a chance at working.

[catrox14]

 

RE: Supernatural and the meatsuits.

= Band name.

upvoting for this alone

[Leia1979]

Given how the whole thing feels slapped together then it is probable the writers haven't given a lot of thought to Time Travel -- but I am hoping -- that the touch to her stomach is only wishful thinking once she realizes that the spell worked and she's back in the 1780s.  Maybe she is just presuming that everything worked and everything is ready to be reset and she is assuming she's pregnant again. 

I get the feeling we've gone back to just before Ichabod "died" in 1781, so Katrina likely is pregnant.

 

Edited because a lot of new posts popped up while I was at lunch, and I was no longer replying to the correct post.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Leia1979