S05.E10: Them

[AndySmith]

these words would be spoken:  "Only, the thing is, we're going to have to take the boy. "

 

They're actually there to take Judith!

 

What did you expect a half shrug, "Well there we go..."

 

I almost expected her to say "Who is that blond girl Daryl is carrying?"

 

I'm with the poster who said Maggie can do not right. She grieves, she's wrong. She cries, she's wrong.

 

She didn't need to spend all season crying and/or worrying about her. Just one or 2 small, brief scenes (like one line of dialogue from her to Glenn or even Rick) would have sufficed. I don't understand why people assume that just because we wanted some reaction from her regarding Beth, that somehow translates into Maggie talking about her non-stop?

 

When there was famine in N Korea, people tried to eat grass, but humans don't have multiple stomachs to do that like ruminants/hoofstock

 

Not enough dog available?

 

I guess we all have our "expendables" list as far as the characters are concerned. I like Tara and Rosita. My "expendables" list as of now would be Gabriel, Noah, and Eugene. And Rick and Carl, but yeah right, like cockraches in a nuclear war, those 2 will be here till the end.

Edited February 17, 2015 by AndySmith

[tennisgurl]

As we try to figure out who`s next on the chopping block, I do have to say, I appreciate that at least I actually know all of the character, unlike previous seasons. It seems like, in the past, there have been so many pointless, red shirt characters (the first season, Hershel's farm) who, maybe we know their names, and that's about it. At the very least, I feel like we know something about everyone in the group now. We know their names, personalities, some of their back stories. Granted, some of them seem pretty expendable, some don't have much complexity to them, and some I don't care much for, but at least I`ll feel something when they die.    

[Too Late Kev]

I wish they'd change up the scenery a bit and make it more realistic. They're supposed to be 60 miles from DC right now. So why do the roads look exactly the same as they did around the prison? Why doesn't the road ever go through towns? Roads go through towns. That's how they got to be roads, as people traveled from town to town.

 

Realistically, as they were starting to run out of supplies, they'd stop at the next town and go through houses to find water and food. There are a lot of houses in each town on the way from Richmond (that's the area where Noah's gated community was, I think) to DC. If they're so damned hungry and thirsty, they wouldn't just keep walking and only look in the woods for food & water. I just looked at the satellite map on mapquest starting about from Richmond and going up to DC...there are a lot of buildings right off the roads. Not only would there be a lot of places to look for food, there'd be way more zombies than the little group following them. I guess I need to suspend my disbelief, big time!

 

When Daryl saw that barn, it seems like he didn't check it out, which didn't make much sense to me. I suppose it can be explained that he wanted to have backup, but it's not like he hasn't foraged for supplies on his own. A barn might have water or food (for animals, maybe, but good enough for hungry people) -- take a peek.

 

In terms of timing, I thought they said it'd been 17 days or so since Tyreese died. Someone said earlier it was 17 days between Beth's death and Tyreese's death. Either way, it's been at least 17 days since Beth died. I don't expect people to be over it, but I can't believe that this is the first that Daryl and Maggie have dealt with it at all.

[TheDancinMonarch]

The most depressing hour of television I've seen since Buffy found her mom dead on the sofa.

[Nashville]

I know the whole burning of his hand was stupid and random, but I think it was powerful.

You can build your own walls so high, you need a boost to get over them.

[JackONeill]

Here's one thing, a little thing, that bugged me.  (Forgive me if someone's mentioned this.)

 

When they're at the bridge fighting the Walkers and things go to hell (with our crew, don't those two statements ALWAYS go together), and Rick's about to get chomped on . . . well, Daryl comes out of his seclusion, just in the the nick of time, and saves Rick.  Look, I know they're "brothers" and depend on one another.  But this is getting old.  Plus, one thing the episode did a good job of was showing us people interacting with those they normally don't interact with. So, I would have liked to have seen Abraham or Rosita saving Rick.  (Or Father Pee-Pants.  Now, think about that one!)

Edited February 17, 2015 by JackONeill

[Boofish]

Daryl has always been Rick's savior even when they didn't like each other. Every since Rick went back for Merle, Daryl has had his back even when he disagreed with his decisions and couldn't stand him. I noticed he first started defending him in Season 3 but he has been taking orders from Rick since they left CDB for the CDC. It is my favorite relationship on the show and running a close second is Michonne/Carl/The Sword

[catrox14]

Rick is Daryls better brother. Daryl is Rick's new better Shane. I think they would be lost without each other. They just seem to have an understanding of each other on a basic level. They are brothers in arms and those bonds are not broken easily.

[NurseGiGi]

Okay, I finally got to finish watching the episode and I really liked it.  I needed to see how the group was handling everything that's happened and glad they acknowledged Maggie's grief over Hershel and Beth's deaths.  

 

And Sasha.  I know she's having a tough time but when Michonne tells you to stop?  You. Stop.

 

Aaron is definitely a bad news bear.

Edited February 17, 2015 by NurseGiGi

[diebartdie]

I wish they'd change up the scenery a bit and make it more realistic. They're supposed to be 60 miles from DC right now. So why do the roads look exactly the same as they did around the prison? Why doesn't the road ever go through towns? Roads go through towns. That's how they got to be roads, as people traveled from town to town.

 

Our band of savages are not traveling the main roads because they want to avoid the massive herds that would be clustered in and around towns and cities so by taking these less traveled, two lane blacktops, they avoid the herds but also find themselves going long periods of time on foot between tiny patches of former human habitation and even those would most likely be picked over or never really had anything useful to begin with.

Edited February 17, 2015 by diebartdie

[Timetoread]

So many responses within 48 hours.  What could I possibly say?  Hmmm.  Here goes..

 

Slow but to my liking because I've always been in it for the human story and I like to see, even if it's just once every couple of seasons, the bare bones survivaling of the ZA (yes, I made up that word).  I am crying uncle with Daryl's angst over Beth, although I'll reluctantly admit that I get it.  It wasn't that Beth was a special snowflake who was strong and blah blah blah.  It was that Beth had enough one on one time with Daryl, already at his breaking point, to get to the heart of him and she helped him find/redefine himself inside of his own head and ego.  With her he was the man he'd become, not the man he once was.  But as we saw with her, when he's upset he goes inside himself and away from others.  When the group settles, I hope his "family" shows him that Beth only said aloud what they ALL feel is true.  Daryl is loved and needed.

 

Liked the interaction between different characters and hope that they continue with that.  People are different with different people and it really helps to understand a person if you get to witness this.  To this day I wish I got to see more of Rick and Shane BEFORE the ZA and the Lori triangle, just as I wish I'd seen a day in the marriage of Rick and Lori before Rick idealized his family as his only hope in the ZA.  That said, I liked that the show wasn't afraid to pit Michonne against Sasha.  I know alot of viewers thought Michonne was hard on Sasha but I disagree.  Sasha was behaving truly badly.  Does her grief give her the right to some social faux pas?  Absolutely.  Does it give her the right to get everybody killed because she is a loose cannon?  No.  I wanted to slap her, frankly.  And Michonne just straight up isn't in the mood for nonsense.  Well played on both parts and realistic - women tend to be intolerant of other women after a while (notice that all girl groups break up eventually).  I've been shocked that there hasn't been more of this.

 

The only other thought I had about this episode, other than I simply just can't with Rick's beard anymore, was about Carl and Judith, both separate and together.  Carl is quite the big brother and his carrying Judith brought to mind another show I used to love (don't like it much now), Supernatural.  Though both brothers are strong, Dean always feels a sense of responsibility for his gigantic (6'4) little brother because when Sam was a baby, Dean carried him out of their burning house.  Something imprinted on his psyche in that event and Sam will ALWAYS be the baby Dean must save from danger.  I think that something is imprinting on Carl and I really see him becoming Judith's primary weapon in the ZA.  Whatever comes must go through him to get to her and he is getting stronger by the minute.  Dating will be very hard for Judith.  As for Miss J, watching all the adults at the point of snapping, I was thinking that in lieu of therapy, pills or booze, what they need to do is pass around the baby.  For many adults, just holding the baby puts much into perspective.  What happened to Daryl's love for Little Ass Kicker?  Maggie birthed her, wouldn't she want to hold her sometimes?  Michonne needs a hug so bad, and Rick is too boneheaded to do the honors, so hand her the baby.  With Tyrese gone, Sasha needs to hold "that baby" in her brother's stead.  I wonder if Abe wouldn't mind a spin at diapering to calm him down a bit.  Just saying.

 

One last thought.  While watching this episode, I was holding my little fuzzy mutt, who was asleep on my lap.  When Sasha shot the dogs I screamed at the tv, "It's time for some dog stew!"  I love dogs, I really do, I spent years in pet rescue, but starving is starving and, well, animal meat is food.  Sorry but it is true.  Nature stops us short of cannibalism (the Termites would have succumbed to this eventually) but everything else is fair game.  I wouldn't eat my dog because he is mine, but I'd eat a wild dog and feed it to my starving children in a heartbeat.

[Timetoread]

Rick is Daryls better brother. Daryl is Rick's new better Shane. I think they would be lost without each other. They just seem to have an understanding of each other on a basic level. They are brothers in arms and those bonds are not broken easily.

 

I know this is cannon but I just don't see this intense bond between Daryl and Rick.  I mean they definitely depend on each other as the muscle of the group and they threw in that line about Daryl being Rick's brother.  But they don't really talk much - like Rick and Shane did.  Daryl hasn't taken any vow to protect Rick's kids as their "uncle" like Shane did.  I got this sense that Rick and Shane could make each other cry if it came to it and I don't see that with Daryl and Rick.  I'd say that they are good friends but not "brothers" in the same way R and S were or even Daryl and Merle (who really were brothers).  In fact, I'd say that the one Daryl would be lost without now is Carol (in a non romantic way).  And Rick and Michonne are getting close in the way described above (also non romantic). 

[catrox14]

I know this is cannon but I just don't see this intense bond between Daryl and Rick.  I mean they definitely depend on each other as the muscle of the group and they threw in that line about Daryl being Rick's brother.  But they don't really talk much - like Rick and Shane did.  Daryl hasn't taken any vow to protect Rick's kids as their "uncle" like Shane did.  I got this sense that Rick and Shane could make each other cry if it came to it and I don't see that with Daryl and Rick.  I'd say that they are good friends but not "brothers" in the same way R and S were or even Daryl and Merle (who really were brothers).  In fact, I'd say that the one Daryl would be lost without now is Carol (in a non romantic way).  And Rick and Michonne are getting close in the way described above (also non romantic).

That's why I said they just get each other. The relationships aren't going to be the same. They don't have to talk to each other all the time about everything to be close. They have been in battle together for a long time. They have been at odds but they always respect each other even when the disagree. IMO merle and Shane didn't really respect Daryl and rick like Daryl and rick respect each other. It's a better brotherhood than either had before. Their bonds are formed in a different way than blood ties and high school buddies that became cops together.

I would argue Rick and Daryl have a mature friendship. They gravitated towards each other when the each lost their brother and "brother". Not to mention Andy and Norman have more chemistry together than any other pairing. :)

[JackONeill]

I hope no one misreads my earlier post as meaning that I dislike the bond between Daryl and Rick.  Although, like Timetoread says, it's a different bond than the one Rick and Shane had.

All I was saying is that in my opinion, the writers lost a chance (but the scene was quick, so no big deal) in having someone unexpected save Rick's ass on the bridge.  Imagine if Father Pee Pants had, or Eugene.  Would Rick have looked at them differently???  If so, how??  Where would it lead??

Having Daryl save Rick was, if nothing else, cliche, and I hate cliche.

[diebartdie]

Dear lord, Daryl  has heard this! Carol way back at the farm told him multiple times, Rick has multiple times, Lori did in her weird way, Glenn has, on and on he has heard it over and over and over, Beth telling him over some moonshine was not the thing that made him realize this about himself. Sheesh, was Daryl burning himself in order to feel his sadness over Beth or was he doing that because he (LIKE EVERYONE ELSE) is so fucking numb he's desperate for something, ANYTHING to break through the fog. When he cried or Maggie cried or FPP cried or Sasha cried yes it was about some discrete individual but also godamn they were all breaking down because they are living in a horrific world of unrelenting pain and stink. If Beth wasn't a special little snowflake (which she wasnt of course) then Daryl is not a special little snowflake either.

Beth had enough one on one time with Daryl, already at his breaking point, to get to the heart of him and she helped him find/redefine himself inside of his own head and ego.  With her he was the man he'd become, not the man he once was.  But as we saw with her, when he's upset he goes inside himself and away from others.  When the group settles, I hope his "family" shows him that Beth only said aloud what they ALL feel is true.  Daryl is loved and needed.

[Timetoread]

Dear lord, Daryl  has heard this! Carol way back at the farm told him multiple times, Rick has multiple times, Lori did in her weird way, Glenn has, on and on he has heard it over and over and over, Beth telling him over some moonshine was not the thing that made him realize this about himself. Sheesh, was Daryl burning himself in order to feel his sadness over Beth or was he doing that because he (LIKE EVERYONE ELSE) is so fucking numb he's desperate for something, ANYTHING to break through the fog. When he cried or Maggie cried or FPP cried or Sasha cried yes it was about some discrete individual but also godamn they were all breaking down because they are living in a horrific world of unrelenting pain and stink. If Beth wasn't a special little snowflake (which she wasnt of course) then Daryl is not a special little snowflake either.

 

Daryl isn't a special snowflake at all.  He's not even one of my favorite characters. My point was that I sort of get why he wrapped up into Beth to this degree so that her loss pains him more than (I personally feel) it should.  I mean who knows, maybe he'd already planned getting it on with Beth and now that she's gone he's got no new prospects. 

[candall]

As we try to figure out who`s next on the chopping block, I do have to say, I appreciate that at least I actually know all of the character, unlike previous seasons. It seems like, in the past, there have been so many pointless, red shirt characters (the first season, Hershel's farm) who, maybe we know their names, and that's about it. At the very least, I feel like we know something about everyone in the group now. We know their names, personalities, some of their back stories. Granted, some of them seem pretty expendable, some don't have much complexity to them, and some I don't care much for, but at least I`ll feel something when they die.    

On the other hand, we need some "Otis' wife" and likeable fruit hippies to spare.  (I guess that's where you come in, Tara and Rosita.)  I could totally believe Rick getting a rando walker chomp, where everyone had to regroup and soldier on with less effectual leadership, but obviously that's not going to happen.  They thought it was a huge ballsy move to kill Beth.

 

Oh my gosh, I'm so glad that girl's not trudging along, being forced to accept the last swallow of water and Daryl's choicest worm protein, singing us little songs when life is darkest.

[Timetoread]

IMO merle and Shane didn't really respect Daryl and rick like Daryl and rick respect each other. It's a better brotherhood than either had before. Their bonds are formed in a different way than blood ties and high school buddies that became cops together.

 

Sorry, I just don't see that.  Merle didn't respect Daryl, but he loved him very much.  And for all his BS would have done anything and everything for him.  I think he was surprised at how much Daryl had matured in this group and I do think he'd have begun to respect him as well.  There wasn't much to respect about Daryl before - he was a follower and a victim and the "baby brother" Merle had slung over his shoulder.  Merled didn't have much experience with Daryl the man and shot caller.  As for Shane, he loved and respected Rick as much as one could - the problem was that Shane wanted most what belonged to Rick - such things NEVER end well.  If not for Lori, Shane would still be alive and still be Rick's BFF.

 

I guess I don't feel that it has to be one or the other - that in order for Rick and Daryl to be friends or even good friends, that they have to be BEST FRIENDS and completely negate other relationships that they had before.  As Rick has said, this group is now his family, meaning he'd die and kill for any of them (I was noting in one of the more recent episodes the posture that Rick takes behind even Sasha - respectful and yet protective). I think Daryl feels the same, but I don't see the two of them riding off into the sunset together as Butch and Sundance. At least not yet. 

[AngelaHunter]

I agree it may have been more interesting had someone unlikely - like Eugene or Tara - saved Rick. With Daryl doing it, it's starting to be like the old Westerns, when the cavalry rides in to save the day at the last minute.

 

So many responses within 48 hours.  What could I possibly say?  Hmmm.  Here goes..

 

 

Same here. I hate that I see this show the day after everyone else does. I come here to comment and see 246 posts already. I don't want to repeat what's been said, and can't read everything all at once, so I mostly say nothing.:(

[HalcyonDays]

Same here. I hate that I see this show the day after everyone else does. I come here to comment and see 246 posts already. I don't want to repeat what's been said, and can't read everything all at once, so I mostly say nothing.:(

 

I think you guys should comment anyway. Yes, you may repeat some things others have said, but most people have a unique perspective or two that no one thought of. Post away and don't worry about repeating anything!!

[AngelaHunter]

Just catching up with the thread and have to bring this up,

The Mighty Peanut, on 15 Feb 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

Rick's new question..."How many people have you k...do you guys eat people? Because the last group fucking ate people."

 

And "How many dogs have you eaten?"

 

...because it's too stinking funny.

 

As much as I love dogs and hate seeing animals harmed, I think the dogs was a nice touch since we've never seen our group being threatened by any wildlife, like bears or coyotes. The former pet dogs seeing people as a food supply and ending up being eaten by those people really hammered home that life has come down to its age-old and most basic "Survival of the fittest."

 

The snarling and tail wagging at the same time is not contradictory and would be typical for dogs hesitant and nervous at confronting people and the excitement dogs feel before attacking prey or fighting.

[catrox14]

 

Sorry, I just don't see that.  Merle didn't respect Daryl, but he loved him very much.  And for all his BS would have done anything and everything for him.  I think he was surprised at how much Daryl had matured in this group and I do think he'd have begun to respect him as well.  There wasn't much to respect about Daryl before - he was a follower and a victim and the "baby brother" Merle had slung over his

 

Sure they loved each other because they were brothers. But that doesn't mean Merle respected him or even treated him well all the time. That's how siblings are many times.  You love them because they are blood or because you think you SHOULD love them and it's wrong if it you don't and you would die for them. But that doesn't mean you always like them or respect them. Daryl began to see what a creep Merle was. Daryl moved away from the racism he was taught and heard from Merle. And Daryl found acceptance by someone other than Merle in the OG Camp Dinner Bell.  But sure the ties to a brother run deep especially between Daryl and Merle because that was one messed up thing.  I think Shane was brother adjacent with Rick but again it's not the same kind of relationship as Rick and Daryl. 

 

IMO with Daryl and Rick they are choosing to be brothers essentially.  They learned to respect each other out of survival. And I think that is why Daryl will always try to save Rick and vice versa. 

 

Rick told Daryl they were brothers.  And for me, I think that has played out organically on screen. YMMV

Edited February 17, 2015 by catrox14

[Artsda]

 

She didn't need to spend all season crying and/or worrying about her. Just one or 2 small, brief scenes (like one line of dialogue from her to Glenn or even Rick) would have sufficed. I don't understand why people assume that just because we wanted some reaction from her regarding Beth, that somehow translates into Maggie talking about her non-stop?

Exactly a throw away line like "any word on Beth" when she'd see the others or "keep looking for Beth" before she left for DC.  Anything at all over the course of the ENTIRE time Beth was gone would have shown some concern/worry/care. However, they had nothing from Maggie at all, it was all Glenn.  She'd move mountains to save/look for/find him, she'd ask about the others but Beth it was radio silence.

That was the problem. Now that she's dead she's acting she's the one who cared and loved her the most when the writing showed nothing for over a season.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

There actually was a way to have tested that water: It's similar to the way the Army instructs Rangers to test plants of questionable origin:

 

• Open the bottle and hold it under your nose. Breathe normally, holding the bottle, for the next 15 minutes or so. If at any point you become nauseous, light-headed or suffer other physical symptoms, throw the bottle away.
• If everything seems OK, pour some water out onto your inner wrist and let it sit there for 15 minutes. Watch for itchiness, hives, etc. Toss the bottle if needed.
• Next, drink a little and don't swallow, but rather swish it around in your mouth for 15 minutes or so.
• If everything still seems OK, drink a little and wait half an hour. If there's still nothing wrong, drink some more, a little at a time.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[LadyMustang65]

I love this show, and I loved this episode.  Not much new to say except I had no problems with any part of it.  It all felt "right" to me.  Darryl saving Rick was a non-issue because it seemed like he was the one closest to Rick.  I don't remember him pushing others aside to come forward.  So no biggie for me.  I understood where Michonne was coming from with Sasha, and I actually thought that for Michonne, she was showing great restraint in talking to Sasha.  Maggie's reaction doesn't bother me at all.  I can completely picture her believing Beth was dead.  I would have too.  Darryl is right, I think, that Beth was stronger than we gave her credit for, but she wasn't really a survivor, I don't think.  Glen, on the other hand, is both a fighter and a survivor and a pretty capable guy.  I can easily believe Maggie latching on to Glen being alive somewhere and throwing all of her energy into finding him because she needed someone she loved to be alive and just refusing to think about Beth because it would be more than she could handle.  To be honest, I never questioned her lack of comment about Beth as being anything other than what she said it was.  It never occurred to me to think that Maggie didn't love her sister or mourn her loss or anything else, so I don't find her actions in this episode being out of character.  I loved the scene in the barn with all the noise from outside.  It was terrifying.  I don't even hate Father Gabriel.  I'm looking forward to seeing if he will blossom under the weight of survival or if he will wilt from the pressure.  Aaron is definitely weird.  My younger son's first comment when he appeared was, "He's *way* too clean.  Something's wrong."  < lol >  I have no idea what new peril our little band of not-so-merry wanderers is about to face, but I'm game.  :)  I love these guys, and I want to stop losing people.  :(

[Samx]

I, for one, giggled when Eugene offered to do "quality assurance"...and was annoyed when Abe stopped him. I could do without Eugene at this point. Also, I really like Cudlitz as an actor and his character could be such an asset to the group but so far I'm not impressed. Maybe it's the hair, which I think was freshly dyed before this episode filmed. It just takes me right out of any scene he's in. 

[Too Late Kev]

Our band of savages are not traveling the main roads because they want to avoid the massive herds that would be clustered in and around towns and cities so by taking these less traveled, two lane blacktops, they avoid the herds but also find themselves going long periods of time on foot between tiny patches of former human habitation and even those would most likely be picked over or never really had anything useful to begin with.

 

diebartdie, my complaint is twofold: 1) the roads look the same as in Georgia (I realize they film there, but still) and 2) if you look at mapquest or google maps on satellite view, from Richmond to DC, especially concentrating on the last 60 miles, you won't see the kind of road they're walking on, and certainly not miles and miles of it. I realize these complaints are on the level of "Who's cutting the grass," but really...if it takes people away from the story, it's at least a little bit of a problem.

[Timetoread]

I have a story to tell about the miracle of the storm sparing the barn they were in.  This came to mind because I am typing this as an attempt to stall going out and shoveling snow.  A few years ago when we got DC's version of Snowmaggedon, I had a carport that was being held up in it's entirety by one brick.  It was lopsided and the thought was that even a strong wind would send it crashing to the ground.  I took mental note that when the spring came I would get it fixed but I'd wait the winter.  Understand that prior to that, we hadn't had any accumulating snows in about five years.  Snowmaggedon brought 2 feet of snow and blizzard conditions and I worried and prayed all day, everyday, about that carport falling down.  After a while I was so frazzled that I devised a plan to actually go on the roof of the carport and remove some of the heavy snow.  Friends eventually talked me out of it and my contractor assured me that he would fix whatever ultimately happened to that carport - it wasn't worth risking my life.  Well the snow came and went and spring arrived and my contractor stood outside my house and cracked up laughing.  He said that he made light of it to calm me down but the truth is that he fully expected that thing to fall, he kicked the supporting BRICK (one brick) and showed me how just moving it was all it would take.  He said that so many of his customers had stronger roofs than mine fall down.  Mine however was one of the ONLY ones to survive the storm.

 

So yeah, miracles do happen even when Mother Nature does her worst.  I believed the barn scene no matter how improbable.

diebartdie, my complaint is twofold: 1) the roads look the same as in Georgia (I realize they film there, but still) and 2) if you look at mapquest or google maps on satellite view, from Richmond to DC, especially concentrating on the last 60 miles, you won't see the kind of road they're walking on, and certainly not miles and miles of it. I realize these complaints are on the level of "Who's cutting the grass," but really...if it takes people away from the story, it's at least a little bit of a problem.

 

Virginia (where they would be on the last 60 miles to DC) is MOSTLY rural roads. Stalked by troopers who apparently wait for me to do 80 in a 70 mile an hour zone even though there is nothing but trees grass and farms (yeah, I'm bitter about it).   In the summer the vegetation would be identical to Georgia.

[ghoulina]

I think the big difference with the Rick-Daryl relationship is that there is no ego involved. With Rick and Shane, for instance, there was constant jockeying for position. It appeared to me, that Shane had likely always lived in Rick's shadow. Even though Shane was more of a lady's man, Rick got the family, he got the kid, the wife. He was maybe more respected on the force? So Shane just loved having a chance to be a big boss man, and have everyone relying on him and listening to him. Then Rick came back, people immediately gravitated to HIM as leader, and totally threw a wrench in Shane's plan. Even if there was no stuff with Lori, I think their would have been tension between the two. 

 

Then you have Merle, who as the older brother, was used to Daryl following him everywhere and doing what he told him. He didn't like it one bit when he realized that Daryl was not only following someone else, but he was actually an integral part of the group, whose contributions were valued. 

 

With Rick and Daryl, there's just an unspoken agreement there. They get each other, and there's no ego involved. Rick is the leader, and Daryl trusts him. Likewise, Rick knows he can rely on Daryl, but Daryl is actually appreciated and sought out when it comes to decisions. He's not just a henchman. I don't think they need to give big speeches to each other about how much they love each other and what they would or wouldn't do for each other, in order to prove how close their bond is. Their actions say it all. 

[Too Late Kev]

Virginia (where they would be on the last 60 miles to DC) is MOSTLY rural roads. Stalked by troopers who apparently wait for me to do 80 in a 70 mile an hour zone even though there is nothing but trees grass and farms (yeah, I'm bitter about it).   In the summer the vegetation would be identical to Georgia.

 

Thanks, Timetoread. I'd still like to see more farms, then, but I appreciate knowing from a local that it's pretty realistic.

 

In the barn, when Carl put Judith down on the (dirt?) barn floor to go help keep the door closed, I was really worried that a walker would slip in from another door or somewhere to get her. I don't really think Judith would be killed at this point, but I was still anxious. I was very relieved they didn't add a cute-baby death to the others we've seen recently.

[AndySmith]

I'd still like to see more farms, then, but I appreciate knowing from a local that it's pretty realistic.

 

Most of Virginia is similar to Georgia. It's only the western part, which is mostly mountains, that differs. Heck, even parts of Maryland could stand in for Georgia.

 

Edited February 17, 2015 by AndySmith

[AngelaHunter]

This pictorial recap had me laughing my fool head off, especially Carol & Daryl's exchange:

 

http://imgur.com/a/Wu2uu

[ghoulina]

This pictorial recap had me laughing my fool head off, especially Carol & Daryl's exchange:

http://imgur.com/a/Wu2uu

 

Oh shit, the "Sophia, are you in here?" bit was just so wrong. But I laughed so hard.

[kj4ever]

Thanks, Timetoread. I'd still like to see more farms, then, but I appreciate knowing from a local that it's pretty realistic.

 

In the barn, when Carl put Judith down on the (dirt?) barn floor to go help keep the door closed, I was really worried that a walker would slip in from another door or somewhere to get her. I don't really think Judith would be killed at this point, but I was still anxious. I was very relieved they didn't add a cute-baby death to the others we've seen recently.

I am terrified that they are going to kill Judith off soon.  That Kirkman dude seems like he likes to do things just for shock value, and that one would definitely send shock waves out.

 

My tornado story:  When I was a kid we had one touch down in my neighborhood.  It threw our next door neighbor's entire garage 3 blocks into our local softball field, but all of the shelves remained with not one thing knocked over.  Tornados are funny like that.

[Boofish]

This pictorial recap had me laughing my fool head off, especially Carol & Daryl's exchange:

 

http://imgur.com/a/Wu2uu

"Now I have to carry around this box FML" 

[RedheadZombie]

 I know alot of viewers thought Michonne was hard on Sasha but I disagree.  Sasha was behaving truly badly.  Does her grief give her the right to some social faux pas?  Absolutely.  Does it give her the right to get everybody killed because she is a loose cannon?  No.  I wanted to slap her, frankly.  And Michonne just straight up isn't in the mood for nonsense.  Well played on both parts and realistic - women tend to be intolerant of other women after a while (notice that all girl groups break up eventually).  I've been shocked that there hasn't been more of this.

 

I don't think that Michonne was too hard on Sasha necessarily, I just disagree with part of what she said.  As pointed out upthread, no one would have attempted to snap Maggie out of it by calling Beth "stupid", and if someone in the gang deserved that term, it was Beth.  But Beth is the blonde, blue-eyed sainted one who gave her life for the group - at least that seems to be how the gang has interpreted it.  Tyreese was a big, dumb, coward, who committed the ultimate sin of telling Martin Judith's name, and came up with the rescue plan that ended in everyone living, besides the martyred (suicidal) Beth.  For this, he will forever be the "stupid" one.

 

 As for Miss J, watching all the adults at the point of snapping, I was thinking that in lieu of therapy, pills or booze, what they need to do is pass around the baby.  For many adults, just holding the baby puts much into perspective.  What happened to Daryl's love for Little Ass Kicker?  Maggie birthed her, wouldn't she want to hold her sometimes?  Michonne needs a hug so bad, and Rick is too boneheaded to do the honors, so hand her the baby.  With Tyrese gone, Sasha needs to hold "that baby" in her brother's stead.  I wonder if Abe wouldn't mind a spin at diapering to calm him down a bit.  Just saying.

 

I actually love that Daryl has no interaction with Judith - I'm tired of his anointed one status.  Plus, I never for a minute believed Daryl (emotionally-stunted, probably never saw a child treated gently, afraid of his own feelings) would have swooped in, expertly mixed Judith's first formula bottle, then plucked her from the arms of her new brother, and properly fed her.  Ridiculous.  I see Daryl risking his life to get that formula, and I see him watching from the background with a big grin, while that formula saves Judith's life, but then that's the Daryl I used to love, not the Daryl he seems to be now.

 

Regarding the others holding Judith, I think the show feels the most poignant moments will be Rick/Car/Judith, and it's true - tell me who didn't "awwww" when Maggie awoke to see Judith gurgling in sleeping Rick's arms.  But also, they're hopefully attempting to keep the baby actress comfortable.  The scene in which Rick and Carl reunite with Judith was marred by the baby's freaked out expression - who the fuck are these dudes?  And give me back to the big guy!  In the stressful environment in which they film - hot, humid, scary looking people, scenes which require the baby not be soothed with a bottle - I imagine they're just trying to keep the baby calm.  And good for them, if true.

I think that something is imprinting on Carl and I really see him becoming Judith's primary weapon in the ZA.  Whatever comes must go through him to get to her and he is getting stronger by the minute.

 

I love this quote and it's making me rethink the ZA future.  Judith (not Carl) is John Connor, and Carl is her Terminator.

 

I know this is cannon but I just don't see this intense bond between Daryl and Rick.  I mean they definitely depend on each other as the muscle of the group and they threw in that line about Daryl being Rick's brother.  But they don't really talk much - like Rick and Shane did.  Daryl hasn't taken any vow to protect Rick's kids as their "uncle" like Shane did.  I got this sense that Rick and Shane could make each other cry if it came to it and I don't see that with Daryl and Rick.  I'd say that they are good friends but not "brothers" in the same way R and S were or even Daryl and Merle (who really were brothers).  In fact, I'd say that the one Daryl would be lost without now is Carol (in a non romantic way).  And Rick and Michonne are getting close in the way described above (also non romantic). 

 

I like Rick and Daryl's relationship, but it's nothing like Rick/Shane.  Daryl is Rick's right hand because Daryl is a follower, and he respects Rick's leadership.  Carol made Daryl feel important by telling him he had value as a person, but Rick is the one who gave Daryl value as an essential part of the group, and he almost blindly obeys Rick.  Rick respects Daryl's partnership because Daryl is dependable, loyal, and good at what he does.  If Rick and Daryl were friends pre-ZA, I can see them watching football together, drinking beer, and grunting mono-syllabic words at each other.  Rick and Shane shared feelings, insecurities, dreams - which was unlike most guy friend relationships portrayed on television, and I loved it.  Their chemistry was amazing, and I really think Shane was more jealous of Lori's part in Rick's life than the reverse.

[RedheadZombie]

This pictorial recap had me laughing my fool head off, especially Carol & Daryl's exchange:

 

http://imgur.com/a/Wu2uu

 

Carol:  "There is no D in me"

Daryl:  "Not yet"

Carol:  Kisses Daryl's forehead, "Not 'til we both shower"

 

Next favorite - pack of feral dogs appear .....

Carl:  "Dad can I pet it?"

[AngelaHunter]

Speaking of feral dogs, the CGI'd vampire fangs were very badly done. Unless the dogs lifted their lips, which they didn't, the fangs would not be visible. Someone needs to have a talk with whoever is doing the CGI, because it's starting to venture into cartoon territory.

'

[NoWillToResist]

Sweltering hot day? Be sure to walk on the hot tarmac in the sun, rather than on the cooler grass in the shade, six feet to your right. Fucking hell. Also, why travel in the heat of the day? If you're just following a damned road, do it at night when the sun's gone. Sheesh.

 

Sasha cut a walker and then accidentally slashed Abraham's arm. Don't see the point in showing that unless it will mean something later on.

 

Daryl? You knew Beth for, like, two days. Sure, she was young and sweet and you bonded, but your grief seems ill matched for how close you two were. You got over your brother's death faster, FFS.

 

Why were the walkers trying to get into the barn during the storm? The humans were quiet, the rain would cover their scent and walkers have no cognitive ability to understand 'shelter'...

 

I'm glad they addressed that the alcohol would only worsen dehydration. Wonder if Abe used any of it to try and disinfect the cut Sasha gave him....

 

I didn't understand why Rick suddenly changed their plan of attack re: the walkers on the ridge. So Sasha stabbed one of them...so what? It's not like the other walkers would have been all "you killed Doug! You bitch! Attack all at once, guys!" Why couldn't our group have continued with their plan of 'lure and evade'?

[Caelicola]

Ater a long, self-imposed break from the internet and this show, I'm coming back because of this episode.

I honestly didn't expect to like this episode, and I certainly didn't expect to love it as much as I did. I don't know why I loved it so much, maybe it's just that I love Sasha, and I love Maggie when they let her be an actual character. Maybe it's because I thought everyone made sense, in the way they acted, reacted and interacted, and that is unfortunately quite rare on this show. Maybe it's because it was beautifully shot, and the cinematography was absolutely stunning. I don't know, I just really, really loved it.

 

Pretentious aside: two scenes made me think of paintings; the one where they're all walking, followed by walkers, is eerily similar, from a composition standpoint, to Il Quarto Stato by Pellizza da Volpedo, with Rick in the middle, Carl holding Judith on his left and Michonne on his right, everyone else slightly behind him. I don't know if it was intentional, or at all meaningful, it just struck me.

The other one, which I do think was intentional, because I seem to recall an interview with Andy Lincoln where he mentioned it by name and likened it to the show, is more in tone and intention than in actual visual composition, and it's the scene in the barn, everyone gathering together in this knot of limbs and straining faces to hold the doors closed, and it immediately brought to my mind Géricault's Raft of the Medusa.

/End of the pretentiousness.

 

Little things I loved about this episode:

-Carl and Rick resting back to back, leaning quite literally on each other;

-Tara and Rosita laying on the muddy ground, laughing;

-Carol just being there, offering warmth and understanding, proving that the association between hardness and coldness is sometimes off-base;

-Rick cuddling Judith in his sleep;

-Sasha and Maggie, both completely drained and devastated, yet still able to laugh, in the end.

All those little things made me see this episode as sad, yeah, but not as depressing and desolate as others did. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was never intended to be any hope in the whole thing, but I did see hope and light. I don't know, I just know that this might be my new favourite episode, and nothing happened, so I don't know what that says about my taste.

[RedheadZombie]

Speaking of feral dogs, the CGI'd vampire fangs were very badly done. Unless the dogs lifted their lips, which they didn't, the fangs would not be visible. Someone needs to have a talk with whoever is doing the CGI, because it's starting to venture into cartoon territory.

'

 

I'm just glad they didn't vilify pit bulls.  Although if the gang called the police, they'd probably report the two Dobermans, German Shepherd, and mutt, as four feral pit bulls.

[RedheadZombie]

Sweltering hot day? Be sure to walk on the hot tarmac in the sun, rather than on the cooler grass in the shade, six feet to your right. Fucking hell. Also, why travel in the heat of the day? If you're just following a damned road, do it at night when the sun's gone. Sheesh.

 

Sloppy mistakes that we love to pick up on.  It also bothered me that when they breaked, almost every one of them had their back to the woods, and faced the open road.  It would have been incredibly simple to sneak up on them through the woods, but difficult across the open road.

 

I also thought it was funny that when they formed their attack formation, the walkers knew to split off one by one.  They would have dumbly followed the guy in front of them, unless a human deliberately drew their attention.

[Jordan27]

I was mostly bored again. The only times it was interesting for me was the poor kidnapped woman in the trunk, (that is absolutely the worst zombiefied person I've seen on this show), & the dogs. You know your life sucks when you have to eat Rover to survive

For me, it was the Church in the water walkers.  Years of being in water really made them horrific.

[Jordan27]

I know it's not real but it somehow seems to me that churches during tornadoes and church school buses during traffic accidents always are disproportionately targeted.

 

Yeah, kind of like blacks are disproportionately targeted on this show.  But, I know that it's not real.

[AngelaHunter]

I also thought it was funny that when they formed their attack formation, the walkers knew to split off one by one.

 

I guess they're running out of novel ways to dispose of zombies.

 

Speaking of zombies, what I love is the way that in the beginning, everyone freaked out with terror at the very sight of one. Now, they've become just an annoying nuisance, sort of like the clouds of mosquitoes that should be plaguing our group.

 

Poor Maggie couldn't even sit and have a decent cry without one of them interrupting her. I imagined her thinking something like, "Oh, FFS! Now I have get up and kill that silly thing. What a bore."

[kikismom]

Nature's supply & demand is fascinating.  I've been here long enough to see the rabbit/coyote populations switch back and forth several times, but last year was the first year mice were down and snakes were up--must be a much slower cycle.  (If you have any insight into that ecosystem, I'd love to know.  The rabbits and coyotes don't try to bring their business inside my house.)

 

I see that you're totally on target with the deer.  It didn't occur to me that instead of x number of "deer hunters," suddenly every member of the population would be looking to bag a deer.

Mice are down, snakes are up---could be because snakes can go up to two years without eating, mice can't. Or something else.

 

Thanks, Timetoread. I'd still like to see more farms, then, but I appreciate knowing from a local that it's pretty realistic.

 

In the barn, when Carl put Judith down on the (dirt?) barn floor to go help keep the door closed, I was really worried that a walker would slip in from another door or somewhere to get her.

 

I am a bit ashamed that my first thought was oh crap the eggs of hookworm and roundworm and tapeworm etc can be in soil for so long now she'll need to drink kerosene from a teaspoon...

I think you guys should comment anyway. Yes, you may repeat some things others have said, but most people have a unique perspective or two that no one thought of. Post away and don't worry about repeating anything!!

Yeah, I gotta remember that people who just got here have no time to read a bazillion posts; my new resolution is to let it roll.

Speaking of zombies, what I love is the way that in the beginning, everyone freaked out with terror at the very sight of one. Now, they've become just an annoying nuisance, sort of like the clouds of mosquitoes that should be plaguing our group.

 

Poor Maggie couldn't even sit and have a decent cry without one of them interrupting her. I imagined her thinking something like, "Oh, FFS! Now I have get up and kill that silly thing. What a bore."

That's funny I was thinking the exact same thing this morning, how at the farm Andrea yelled WALKER! and everyone reacted so strongly; now a herd is following them down the road and it's like your kid brother and his friends tagging along--- those little pests, just ignore them.

Edited February 17, 2015 by kikismom

[Anela]

"Now I have to carry around this box FML" 

I wondered why he was giving her something else to carry, when I watched on Sunday. LOL. 

 

"I would walk 500 miles, and I would walk 500 more." haha!

[bosawks]

Speaking of feral dogs, the CGI'd vampire fangs were very badly done. Unless the dogs lifted their lips, which they didn't, the fangs would not be visible. Someone needs to have a talk with whoever is doing the CGI, because it's starting to venture into cartoon territory.

'

Aww, I love it when they CGI like a drunken frat boy. Feral vampire dogs, sigh, it's like Christmas came early.

[Sofie Fatale]

 

One last thought.  While watching this episode, I was holding my little fuzzy mutt, who was asleep on my lap.  When Sasha shot the dogs I screamed at the tv, "It's time for some dog stew!"  I love dogs, I really do, I spent years in pet rescue, but starving is starving and, well, animal meat is food.  Sorry but it is true.  Nature stops us short of cannibalism (the Termites would have succumbed to this eventually) but everything else is fair game.  I wouldn't eat my dog because he is mine, but I'd eat a wild dog and feed it to my starving children in a heartbeat.

This.

I get that people are close to their pets, but it's a survival show about the zombie apocalypse ffs. Our peeps are starving.

I feel like the outrage over the dogs was worse than the cannibalism lol

If that were me and I had to feed myself and my kid, pass me a piece of Lassie.

[Jordan27]

couple of things puzzled me, though.  Like when they came across the cars, why didn't they see if they were still running or not?  Maybe it's because one vehicle alone wouldn't hold all of them, although I think there were two cars there.  I guess they just assume they were out of gas, which they probably were. 

 

Even though some cars may have gas, batteries would eventually die.

Mice are down, snakes are up---could be because snakes can go up to two years without eating, mice can't. Or something else.

 

 

I am a bit ashamed that my first thought was oh crap the eggs of hookworm and roundworm and tapeworm etc can be in soil for so long now she'll need to drink kerosene from a teaspoon...

Yeah, I gotta remember that people who just got here have no time to read a bazillion posts; my new resolution is to let it roll.

That's funny I was thinking the exact same thing this morning, how at the farm Andrea yelled WALKER! and everyone reacted so strongly; now a herd is following them down the road and it's like your kid brother and his friends tagging along--- those little pests, just ignore them.

I just finished rewatching S1 and early 2 and it's interesting how they kill the walkers.  They are very aggressive and do multiple hits to the head like they are really mad.  Now, just a knife to the head and ho, hum.