Untreatable: Unpopular Opinions

[debraran]

On 6/20/2017 at 9:05 PM, Automne said:

Rewatching this show 20+ years later and I'm no longer nine years old, I realize that Carol is one of the worst characters. Any potential her character had was ruined by her obsession with getting Dr. Ross to love her the same way she loves him. Aside from constantly walking around all lovelorn, she gets a rebound with Dr. Tagliatelli or whatever his name was but never properly loves him and accepts his marriage proposal (that he gives despite the fact that she cheated on him) and then he's somehow the bad guy when he leaves her right before their wedding. Granted, he should've made that grand realization that she's marrying him more to spite Doug than her actually loving Tag long before the wedding.

Then Carol gets knocked up with Doug's twins and thinks that these burgeoning lives she's incubating will be the magical tether to keep Doug where she wants him, but obviously, the man who already has a son he never sees had no qualms booking it to Seattle and made like one visit to see his daughters. He didn't even come towards the end of the pregnancy to make sure he'd be around for the birth. Then later Carol is whining about her life and unironically wondering how she ended up a single mother and outright said she kept the twins because she thought that would make Doug stay. Lady, if he wasn't going to stay for you, he's not staying for anybody or anything.

And the fact that neither Dour or Carol came to Mark's funeral is just beyond. Mark, who kept saving Doug's ass when his cowboy doc antics got him in trouble. Mark, who was Carol's emotional support when Doug left. And neither goddamn one of them could come to his funeral. Yes, I'm sure there were real-life logistical issues with getting Clooney and Margulies, but 1.) that's not in-universe and 2.) one would think that at least Clooney would be like, "Well, this was my character's BFF and there's no good excuse for him to NOT be at the funeral. I can spare a few hours to make an appearance and a quick eulogy and maybe make a run for that Best Guest Appearance Emmy."

I agree with most of this but as others pointed out, Clooney supposedly rejected offer in interview because he was a hot item at the time and didn't want the press to talk about his appearance and get people to watch when it was all about Dr Green. I can see that but Carol? She could have made an appearance even by phone, something. They had to have heard.  Writers dropped the ball there.  Later, Juliane said  she didn't want to do the last show, where they are together and only said yes because she thought Doug would say No..and he didn't. So her bet was lost but it was a nice ending for fans.

Edited April 17, 2018 by debraran

[Racj82]

I honestly never cared that Doug and Carol weren't at the funeral. I never understood the analyzing of it either. I never gave it a second thought. Everyone at the funeral were already in cast of just left that season. So, that's as much thought as I put into it. We as tv viewers often don't get the character returns that make sense or character resolutions we want because various reasons. I don't get upset about it. That's just tv.

[RedbirdNelly]

39 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I honestly never cared that Doug and Carol weren't at the funeral. I never understood the analyzing of it either. I never gave it a second thought. Everyone at the funeral were already in cast of just left that season. So, that's as much thought as I put into it. We as tv viewers often don't get the character returns that make sense or character resolutions we want because various reasons. I don't get upset about it. That's just tv.

I think the reason it comes up so much is that they did an unusually good job of having characters who had departed make an appearance at the funeral. Most shows would have not done that; maybe it speaks to how the people who had left liked ER and wanted to return. But it was subtle--it's not like they gave everyone lines but you see that they are there and it's satisfying that yeah, in real life Benton would have come etc. Jester was even there. So, if they'd gotten Clooney it would have been very fulfilling from the "realistic funeral scene" perspective. Since they didn't get him, some mention in an episode would have been nice.

[Racj82]

4 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I think the reason it comes up so much is that they did an unusually good job of having characters who had departed make an appearance at the funeral. Most shows would have not done that; maybe it speaks to how the people who had left liked ER and wanted to return. But it was subtle--it's not like they gave everyone lines but you see that they are there and it's satisfying that yeah, in real life Benton would have come etc. Jester was even there. So, if they'd gotten Clooney it would have been very fulfilling from the "realistic funeral scene" perspective. Since they didn't get him, some mention in an episode would have been nice.

Sure. I get what you are saying. It just didn't bother me or garner much thought on my end. 

[ESS]

On 10/10/2016 at 10:39 PM, ESS said:

Yes this is exactly why they had Elizabeth & Peter break up I know because I read something about it an article I think. Me personally I don't agree with him about it, but whatever it definitely is too bad he felt that way, but then again this was still the late 90s so..

For Peter's new girlfriend, did they consider hiring someone who could act?  They could have tested several actresses to find one who had chemistry with Eric.  Or was there some reason they wanted Michael Michele?

This is what I was wondering myself.

[debraran]

10 hours ago, ESS said:

 

I'm not sure but it seemed the show liked black women for Eric that weren't white but were biracial.  Jeanne which wasn't a good idea with her being married, seemed liked a good match if they had written it differently and Cleo was biracial but black enough. They portrayed many black characters as arrogant and I like Gallant the best because he is smart and kind, an alternative to the typecast. I hate typecasting what is black, Hispanic etc but people will and did much more in the 90's.

My husband is black and children biracial and watching ER with them now, they see it differently than some. My daughter will point out a lot of the "bad patients" are minority but I also point out the white drug addicts, etc but I see her point. It is slanted. Her dad is a cop in a big diverse city and although crime crosses all races, mostly newspapers and TV pick the ones that will up their ratings and have people watch or fear something.

Eric had fans that didn't like it and although not a huge deal, he had a career to think of and also didn't like how blacks were portrayed at times on TV. Why there were not black women in his field he could date he felt.   This old article touches on it. https://nypost.com/1999/04/14/why-the-romance-went-out-of-er-actress-irked-at-her-co-star-for-ending-interracial-affair/

I see why it was good to show interracial couples but I see Eric's point too. ER could have done both well. Hopefully by now, it's not a big deal for most.

I also like on a different not how George took on TV Guide about not having black actor's on their covers.  He wrote a letter about how hot characters from ER were ignored that were black. Things have improved, still have a way to go in some areas.

Edited April 21, 2018 by debraran

[Bastet]

48 minutes ago, debraran said:

I'm not sure but it seemed the show liked black women for Eric that weren't white but were biracial. 

Well, that's a problem across TV - it's quite a microcosm of society's colorism problem, so lighter black skin prevails on screen, especially among female characters.

I liked the relationship between Benton and Corday - as did Eriq La Salle - but I'm glad La Salle put the kibosh on it for the reasons he did.  And they did write the relationship with Cleo better than they had the ones with Jeanie and Carla, so that was good, but Michael Michele only had chemistry with the kid playing Reese - the rest of the time, she was just sort of there.  So, even though a better relationship on paper, the Benton/Cleo relationship wasn't a very interesting one to watch.

[debraran]

7 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Well, that's a problem across TV - it's quite a microcosm of society's colorism problem, so lighter black skin prevails on screen, especially among female characters.

I liked the relationship between Benton and Corday - as did Eriq La Salle - but I'm glad La Salle put the kibosh on it for the reasons he did.  And they did write the relationship with Cleo better than they had the ones with Jeanie and Carla, so that was good, but Michael Michele only had chemistry with the kid playing Reese - the rest of the time, she was just sort of there.  So, even though a better relationship on paper, the Benton/Cleo relationship wasn't a very interesting one to watch.

I agree, she just was kind of flat.  Corday and Green didn't have the same chemistry but it was fine and believable. I wish they also explored more her friendship with Romano. Having her seem so repulsed by him reaching out to her face while she was comforting him in his office when his recovery was slow, was understandable but also a little unlike her. He might not be Don Juan but she likes him enough to be friends. On this show, looks were paramount as most are but I remember being shocked when Luca said Abby "Wasn't even that pretty". I guess if you aren't gorgeous, you should find a place to hide.  ; )

Jeanie and Benton seemed like a good fit but then she had to be married and her black husband had HIV...which he gave to her.  I'm glad she had some happiness later. Then Carla and Benton's sister were all over the place, kind of sane then crazy.  I agree, Reese gave everyone some chemistry, cute kid and I'm loved his time on the screen with Eric and the rest.

[slf]

On 4/21/2018 at 2:13 PM, debraran said:

I wish they also explored more her friendship with Romano. Having her seem so repulsed by him reaching out to her face while she was comforting him in his office when his recovery was slow, was understandable but also a little unlike her. He might not be Don Juan but she likes him enough to be friends. On this show, looks were paramount as most are but I remember being shocked when Luca said Abby "Wasn't even that pretty". I guess if you aren't gorgeous, you should find a place to hide.  ; )

I don't think Elizabeth was repulsed by Romano at all I think she was panicking because she realized he was trying to make things intimate between them and she did ever see him that way. She was just trying to reach out and comfort him.

Luka's famous line to Abby never sat right with me. On the one hand, yeah, Abby flip flopping between the two men had gotten on almost everyone's nerves so having Luka shut it down (seemingly) with "You're not that pretty, you're not that special. Carter can have you" was an oh damn moment. On the other hand, the writers only had themselves to blame for the horrible love triangle and the frustration from fans so that line felt like it was trying to score points by selling out the character. Not to mention it's kind of mean.

[doodlebug]

30 minutes ago, slf said:

I don't think Elizabeth was repulsed by Romano at all I think she was panicking because she realized he was trying to make things intimate between them and she did ever see him that way. She was just trying to reach out and comfort him.

Luka's famous line to Abby never sat right with me. On the one hand, yeah, Abby flip flopping between the two men had gotten on almost everyone's nerves so having Luka shut it down (seemingly) with "You're not that pretty, you're not that special. Carter can have you" was an oh damn moment. On the other hand, the writers only had themselves to blame for the horrible love triangle and the frustration from fans so that line felt like it was trying to score points by selling out the character. Not to mention it's kind of mean.

GV said he argued against that line, asserting Luka would never say something so hurtful to Abby and MT agreed.  TPTB refused to change the line.  I guess TPTB were sort of right since we're still talking about it years later.

[debraran]

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

GV said he argued against that line, asserting Luka would never say something so hurtful to Abby and MT agreed.  TPTB refused to change the line.  I guess TPTB were sort of right since we're still talking about it years later.

Yes, it did seem out of place and I thought even though everyone had their own look on the show, Abby was more "tomboy" and the writer said what he thought others were thinking. Wrong I feel, but it hit a nerve. I just didn't think Luka cared about model looks the way Doug did so it felt "off".

Sometimes the writers were brilliant and other times, they were off the mark. Enough brilliant to make a lot of memorable moments.

I read this article about Romano's death and how he had run his course and they couldn't do anything more with him. That was their writing,not the actor.  But the end line about Green gave me pause. Fans thought they dragged his death out? I think they enjoyed it was realistic and was done with dignity. I wasn't reading TV magazines back then but maybe some did. I feel much more thoughtful than a lot of the TV plots today.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/entertainment/er-heli-exit-romano-ratings-draw-article-1.520096

Edited April 26, 2018 by debraran

[starri]

32 minutes ago, debraran said:

Fans thought they dragged his death out?

Yes.  The whole thing ate up two entire seasons.

[debraran]

42 minutes ago, starri said:

Yes.  The whole thing ate up two entire seasons.

You know watching in on Hulu, that was lost on me. It was just a few weeks. ; )

[KBrownie]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Yes, it did seem out of place and I thought even though everyone had their own look on the show, Abby was more "tomboy" and the writer said what he thought others were thinking. Wrong I feel, but it hit a nerve. I just didn't think Luka cared about model looks the way Doug did so it felt "off".

I agree that the "not that pretty, not that special" line was totally off.  Especially since Luka had said directly to Abby before, just the previous season ( and the line takes place in just the 2nd episode of that season), that she was "beautiful."  So that stupid line made even less sense taking that into account.  I totally bought Luka being fed up with the Carter bullshit, but I agree it wasn't something he'd ever say.  I think the writers had been gearing up for forcing Carter/Abby upon viewers for a long time, but they hadn't anticipated Luka and Abby having more chemistry and generally being more appealing, so they had to make Luka look like a jerk in comparison to the understanding and ever so helpful Carter.  They'd been setting it up since Maggie came back the 2nd time in Season 7.  It was like overnight that Luka was supposedly so controlling and couldn't possibly understand anything Abby was going through like Carter could.  RME.

[starri]

11 hours ago, debraran said:

You know watching in on Hulu, that was lost on me. It was just a few weeks. ; )

Rewatching on Hulu, it was a lot more tolerable, but getting one episode per week, for twenty-two weeks, for two years, it just dragged on and on.

[ch1]

I don’t know I always took that pretty/special line as no one is that much of a prize to treat the other person like crap.

And honestly with how all over the place they wrote Luka later on nothing was off the table with him apparently.

[KBrownie]

6 minutes ago, ch1 said:

I don’t know I always took that pretty/special line as no one is that much of a prize to treat the other person like crap.

And honestly with how all over the place they wrote Luka later on nothing was off the table with him apparently.

Exactly!  I also don't think he was really trying to insult her looks personally or anything, but just drive home the point that he was fed up and that no one was worth all the crap.

And major yep! to the fact that Luka was often written all over the place.  Until about Season 12 the writers would give him a completely different personality, with an entirely different set of character traits.  Usually in service of someone else's story.  It was rarely done for him.

[Racj82]

I feel like Owen Hunt on Grey's Anatomy is their equivalent to Luka on ER. Right on down to the inconsistent writing and the why are you still here of it all.

Good Lord Mark's death dragged. That's partly the point. We see clips of ongoing issues some patients go through but we saw all of it with Mark and it was a lot. 

[Everleigh]

I liked Abby then, still like her upon re-watch but I do think we could have done without the bi-polar family member rehash with her brother. One crazy family member per character is enough. 

Found Carter likable and endearingly eager early on, but god did he become insufferable as the years wore on. After reading that recent look back on the big stabbing episode, I wonder if Noah’s ego started to bleed into the character a bit and maybe that’s what made Carter come across as so entitled. Also hearing that NW was a dick to Kellie Martin cost his character any goodwill I had held over from his early days. 

I was sad when Malucci got fired because I used to think the actor was hot. I remember hoping they’d bring him back and redeem his character but alas it was not meant to be. 

My super unpopular unpopular opinion… the early days were not my favorite. I preferred the middle-ish seasons (6-13). This might simply be due to the fact that I started watching around season 5 once I was old enough to be interested in a medical drama, and when I went back to watch the beginning of the series, I couldn’t muster up any strong connection to the original characters.  

Edited May 11, 2018 by Everleigh

[CleoCaesar]

My very unpopular opinions:

My favorite female characters were Corday, Weaver, and Neela.

Jeanie Boulet should not have been allowed to keep working in the ER.

Benton and Corday was hot, and Eriq La Salle's telling the writers to stop it based on the fact that she was white is indeed racist.

Season  13 was among my favorites. I also liked seasons 14 and 15 (in addition to the early seasons). Couldn't stand the middle period where the old-timers had all left but the newcomers weren't interesting yet.

[Everleigh]

17 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

My very unpopular opinions:

My favorite female characters were Corday, Weaver, and Neela.

Benton and Corday was hot, and Eriq La Salle's telling the writers to stop it based on the fact that she was white is indeed racist.

 

I liked Weaver, Corday and Neela too, although I wouldn't consider them my favorites. 

I think Eriq La Salle had some valid concerns with wanting positive representation for black couples on TV, but I think allowing actors to dictate storylines is problematic. Eriq and Noah Wyle were allowed to change the trajectory of not only their characters but other characters in their orbit because they complained, and I'm not sure the show was better for their choices. Let the writers write and the actors act. 

[WendyCR72]

Well, for me, I support what Noah Wyle did in terms of jettisoning a romance with Carter's medical student, Lucy. OK, it was TV. But for the most part, early on, ER dealt with hierarchy realistically, so I have zero issue with Wyle pointing out Carter would not and should not sleep with someone he supervised. (Being an ass to Martin is a different story, but at least Wyle owned up to his behavior.)

So if it was anyone's fault, I think it was the writers, who even tried to put the characters in an unwinnable scenario.

My UO, to go back on topic and connect this, is I think it's reasonable for actors to weigh in on their characters. They know them. I just think it is up to TPTB to set limits on it if it will adversely affect the show/stories.

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

My favorite female characters were Corday, Weaver, and Neela.

I disagree with your others, but I share this one.  Neela is less of a favorite because I wasn't paying as much attention to the show by the time she came around, but I enjoyed her, and I loved watching Corday and Weaver; they are my favorites of the show's female characters by a country mile.  I liked Susan, Abby, and Sam a good bit, too, but nothing like those two.

3 hours ago, Everleigh said:

... I think allowing actors to dictate storylines is problematic. ... Let the writers write and the actors act. 

I strongly disagree.  It should be collaborative, and the best producers acknowledge that, after a couple of years, the actors know their characters better than anyone else and consider their input accordingly.

And, in the two instances being discussed, I think the actors were spot on in their reasoning behind requesting a change - LaSalle in wanting not to be a vessel for the dangerous message being sent by how Benton's relationship with a white woman was being presented so much more positively than his relationships with black women, and Wyle in putting the kibosh on a completely inappropriate relationship.  These weren't ego/vanity requests, and thus they should not have been patted on the head and told to just go act whatever is on the page.

[dargosmydaddy]

19 hours ago, Everleigh said:

I was sad when Malucci got fired because I used to think the actor was hot.

Me too!!

[doodlebug]

32 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I disagree with your others, but I share this one.  Neela is less of a favorite because I wasn't paying as much attention to the show by the time she came around, but I enjoyed her, and I loved watching Corday and Weaver; they are my favorites of the show's female characters by a country mile.  I liked Susan, Abby, and Sam a good bit, too, but nothing like those two.

I strongly disagree.  It should be collaborative, and the best producers acknowledge that, after a couple of years, the actors know their characters better than anyone else and consider their input accordingly.

And, in the two instances being discussed, I think the actors were spot on in their reasoning behind requesting a change - LaSalle in wanting not to be a vessel for the dangerous message being sent by how Benton's relationship with a white woman was being presented so much more positively than his relationships with black women, and Wyle in putting the kibosh on a completely inappropriate relationship.  These weren't ego/vanity requests, and thus they should not have been patted on the head and told to just go act whatever is on the page.

Agreed.  I had far more problem with AE insisting on a main cast romance/marriage for Mark as well as his request to leave the show via a fatal illness in an arc that lasted for more than 2 seasons.  It's one thing for an actor to know their character and have input into how he/she would behave; but indulging actors' desires for ongoing frontburner plotlines to give them maximum screentime is another story.

[starri]

5 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Jeanie Boulet should not have been allowed to keep working in the ER.

If you're referring to her working in the ER as a person with HIV, that opinion is so unpopular it's actually illegal.

[ch1]

5 hours ago, Everleigh said:

I liked Weaver, Corday and Neela too, although I wouldn't consider them my favorites. 

I think Eriq La Salle had some valid concerns with wanting positive representation for black couples on TV, but I think allowing actors to dictate storylines is problematic. Eriq and Noah Wyle were allowed to change the trajectory of not only their characters but other characters in their orbit because they complained, and I'm not sure the show was better for their choices. Let the writers write and the actors act. 

I think Benton and Corday worked as a couple while I don’t think it would have with Carter and Lucy.  The writers just tried so hard with her that to me it turned me off.  Case in point is the kickboxing in the ER scene and Lucy’s line about her grandparents still having great sex.  It’s like hit the viewers over the head a little harder.

[CleoCaesar]

7 hours ago, starri said:

If you're referring to her working in the ER as a person with HIV, that opinion is so unpopular it's actually illegal.

I'm aware. I don't agree with that particular law.

[Racj82]

Just rewatched Secrets and Lies. I don't hate it. In fact, I enjoyed it. I did the first time I watched it too. Yes, some of the characters worse traits are on display. From episode to episode, those same traits are always there anyway.

I don't think Carter and Susan had no chemistry. I find upon rewatch, my only issue with them is that they kiss with no passion. Close mouthed quick kisses. No one will look like they belong together with those bullshit Hollywood stage kisses.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I thought in general there was a whole lot of close-mouthed kissing going on which just really really didn't help with the showrunners trying to convince us most of any of these couples had enough passion. Like why were they so against some realistic tongue action? LOL. I could have done with waaaaaay less scenes of Mark kissing (or doing) anyone, regardless of how quick or long the kiss was, those scenes made me want to stab my eyes. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by MVFrostsMyPie

[Racj82]

58 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I thought in general there was a whole lot of close-mouthed kissing going on which just really really didn't help with the showrunners trying to convince us most of any of these couples had enough passion. Like why were they so against some realistic tongue action? LOL. I could have done with waaaaaay less scenes of Mark kissing (or doing) anyone, regardless of how quick or long the kiss was, those scenes made me want to stab my eyes. 

It really is weird seeing Anthony as a main character love interest. I cracked up when someone, I think Malik, was like I knew it. She's too much for him (He can't handle a woman like that) regarding Mark and Elizabeth. It's not even so much about looks for me. It's more about how strong Corday comes off next to mark. 

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 11:57 PM, Racj82 said:

It really is weird seeing Anthony as a main character love interest.

it was kind of weird and not saying I was wishing for more Mark romance scenes--but kind of nice they had a variety of looks and didn't fill the show just with "traditionally viewed as hot" type actors. Points for more being more realistic in that way. Not many shows make the bald guy with glasses a main character and pull it off.

[debraran]

5 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

it was kind of weird and not saying I was wishing for more Mark romance scenes--but kind of nice they had a variety of looks and didn't fill the show just with "traditionally viewed as hot" type actors. Points for more being more realistic in that way. Not many shows make the bald guy with glasses a main character and pull it off.

I liked that too, the Doug Ross/Kovac types are all the time. They always have them dating or sleeping with most of the characters. I would have liked Green because I'm the Tom Hanks type, like the tough but soft underbelly ones. ;, )  Moretti wasn't a Ken doll either and I liked him too.  And I wish as the actor did himself, they gave Romano more of a relationship other that the models he'd have on his arm when at a function.  Show how "real" people live and not just have the nurses or interns going after the stud of the week.  lol

On a side note, as I'm watching this, L & O SVU  is on in background and Greene is playing someone's dad who is of course an accused sex offender. I think that's the first time I caught him in another role I remember.

[slasherboy]

25 minutes ago, debraran said:

On a side note, as I'm watching this, L & O SVU  is on in background and Greene is playing someone's dad who is of course an accused sex offender. I think that's the first time I caught him in another role I remember.

Do you remember Anthony Edwards as Goose in "Top Gun"?

[debraran]

1 hour ago, slasherboy said:

Do you remember Anthony Edwards as Goose in "Top Gun"?

Oh yes, now I do, with hair! : )

[RedbirdNelly]

it's always been weird to me to watch Top Gun and realize Goose goes on to be Mark. Or see Fast Times at Ridgmont High

[starri]

On 6/28/2018 at 2:07 PM, RedbirdNelly said:

Not many shows make the bald guy with glasses a main character and pull it off.

Oh my God, I'm Mark.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:19 PM, starri said:

Oh my God, I'm Mark.

you made me laugh on  a Monday morning.

[Ilentiya]

On 5/6/2017 at 12:32 AM, starri said:

My even more UO:  Kerry was my favorite character.

SAME!!! I feel like everyone hates on her and doesn't try to understand her, or don't want to care about the many personal struggles she has been through

[CrazyInAlabama]

The one I liked at first was Abby, but then she had the fastest med. school, residency, to attending path in history, in between stints in rehab.     Then the way her relatives kept popping in and out, and having crisises that only she could handle was ridiculous.    It was sad to see how low class the writers went with Abby's brother falling into the grave, that was just uncalled for, and obviously to get viewers to tune in.       And what kind of fool takes their drunken, off-meds brother to their boyfriend's funeral, and leaves him in a limo full of booze?  The look on Carter's face when he realized that the brother was there, and loaded was so sad.       

I can't believe Abby was surprised when Carter dumped her.    

It was so sad seeing Carter go to his grandmother's room.    She was the only person who cared about him, and to have her funeral turned into a circus for ratings was awful.   

I never liked Luka either.    They never seemed to decide what kind of person he was, either he was boinking patient's mothers in closets, or running off to save the world, or shacking up with various staff members, and treated the nurses like servants, and sometimes actually practicing medicine in between, it was ridiculous.     When he came back to the ER, and started skimping on tests, and actually sent a person with a bad appendix home until it burst, that was malpractice, but no one said much about it.   Then the whole relationship with first Carol, then Abby, then everyone else he could get to, then Abby again, I wonder if he had time for patients at all.  

The actress who played Kem was a good actress, but I couldn't stand the character.   I can't believe that they had her keep Carter on the string for so long, and in the last episode when Carter wanted to try again, and she said he had to go to Paris with her, and he didn't I liked that.   

I can't even watch the Africa episodes.   They look like they were shot in some back lot in Simi Valley, and the stories were so over the top.   I know it was to make all of us aware of how bad conditions there are, but it just so predictable, and over done.     

Edited August 28, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[MVFrostsMyPie]

The Africa scenes were primarily shot in Africa (Cape Town, South Africa, and the Kalahari Desert). I think a couple scenes (like when they put Luka in the plane and Carter gives him the letter or when Luka & the others are hiding in the jungle while he has malaria) were shot in Hawaii. 

[debraran]

I never thought Kem loved Carter, I didn't feel the chemistry at all. That said, it was hard for me to see him hanging on for so long and even the end of the show, it was vague.  I wanted to see him happy and having kids and teaching them to give back, etc. I understand losing a child is horrific but to have it traumatize them for years, I don't know, it didn't ring true for those characters. It might also have been because the pregnancy wasn't planned.

[CleoCaesar]

Kem and Carter would have been a fine "fling in a foreign land"-type thing. They never seemed to have any kind of foundation for marriage much less a kid, so I'm not surprised it all came crashing down after Joshua died. They wanted to live in different places, lead different lives, and frankly Kem never seemed all that invested. It seemed like she was just trying to make the best out of an unexpected pregnancy with a great guy whose ideals matched her own, and Carter was in love with her and mentally building a life with her. Bad combo.

Carter's series ending - no wife, no children, no happy family life he always craved - was one of the most bittersweet things about the show. We saw him go from plucky naive med student to a seasoned doctor, the new Dr. Greene who sets the tone. Any other show would have given him a happy conclusion. Not ER, though. Personally, I thought it was totally realistic, and I'm impressed the show had the guts not to tie up his story in a false happy Hollywood ending.

[txhorns79]

I think one of my WTF moments was Sam (the same person whose ex shot up the ER and nearly killed Luka, whose son basically killed their downstairs neighbor after the fire he set spread out of control and the same woman who was literally throwing things at Luka during a trauma when she was upset over their relationship) acting offended and put out when Abby announced she was an alcoholic.  I wanted someone to be like: "Sam, maybe you should take a look at your own life before you judge other people."  

[doodlebug]

51 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think one of my WTF moments was Sam (the same person whose ex shot up the ER and nearly killed Luka, whose son basically killed their downstairs neighbor after the fire he set spread out of control and the same woman who was literally throwing things at Luka during a trauma when she was upset over their relationship) acting offended and put out when Abby announced she was an alcoholic.  I wanted someone to be like: "Sam, maybe you should take a look at your own life before you judge other people."  

It helps a lot to watch the several episodes preceding this one to get the context.  In one of them, Abby and Sam are working on a very sick patient and Abby is clearly impaired and Sam has to essentially take over for her and try to save the patient who, I believe, dies.  Sam is upset and frustrated that Abby was less than useless in the crisis and that stayed with her which is why we see the light bulb go off over Sam's head when Abby confesses and why Sam asks if she ever was drunk at work.  And, Sam was rightfully pissed not only that the patient suffered, but that Sam was placed in a really tough spot as a nurse because Abby was selfish enough to drink on the job.

It wasn't Sam's fault that her ex turned out to be a homicidal rapist, and, at least when she figured out Alex was messed up, she sent him to get help.  As for her relationship with Luka, yes, fighting with him in trauma was stupid, but we also saw Abby giggling and joking about his relationships in front of patients after they broke up.  Pot meet kettle.

[txhorns79]

Quote

As for her relationship with Luka, yes, fighting with him in trauma was stupid, but we also saw Abby giggling and joking about his relationships in front of patients after they broke up.  Pot meet kettle.

"Pot meet kettle" is kind of my point. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Thanks for the information about the Africa episodes.    I'm shocked they spent all of that money to shoot in Africa.     I still think the stories were a bit much.   

Sam tried to get help for her son, but before that she excused everything he did.   I think she was the bad kid in her family, and pretty much raised herself, so I don't think she had much of an example.    However, when he went joy riding drunk, and later killed someone in a fire he set, that did it for me.    To me it was pretty much like when Greene's baby daughter with Corday was poisoned by his brat older daughters drugs, and nothing happened to her.     

[Heathen]

I've never though Benton/Corday made much sense. I think she tried to flirt with him, but he never reciprocated until he found out Carla was dating Roger. I also think Benton was a condescending ass to Corday most of the time. Remember when he told her about "just listening" in a jazz club? It's too bad Corday couldn't remove the giant stick up Benton's ass. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 9/3/2018 at 5:35 PM, Heathen said:

I've never though Benton/Corday made much sense. I think she tried to flirt with him, but he never reciprocated until he found out Carla was dating Roger. I also think Benton was a condescending ass to Corday most of the time. Remember when he told her about "just listening" in a jazz club? It's too bad Corday couldn't remove the giant stick up Benton's ass. 

Plus the implication that he didn't want to take her because *gasp* they would be out in PUBLIC and people would SEE THEM TOGETHER *clutches pearls*

You'd think they were dating in the 1950's Deep South. 

Elizabeth, your man is acting like dating you is something to  be ashamed  of and afraid to go out in public with you. Dump him. And before you assume that I don't know what it's like, I am an African-American female who has gotten plenty of nasty looks and comments while with my white boyfriend--in a city as liberal as New York, but I've never felt ashamed/afraid to go out with him.

The irony is, race aside, I think they would have been doomed regardless. Her fun-loving personality just did not mesh with his dour, gruff one.

[Heathen]

Benton's niece made a comment at Reece's baptism about Benton's mother rolling over in her grave at him dating a white woman, but later Jackie spoke of Elizabeth more with affection than anger. 

I agree they wouldn't have lasted. She was a rebound for him, plus their professional rivalry made everything complicated.