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Untreatable: Unpopular Opinions

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19 hours ago, Claire85 said:

Carter had one meeting with DeRaad that we saw, I wouldn’t necessarily call it a therapy session. Carter referred to “the accident” and DeRaad commented that it was a brutal attack. And that was it. I would also have liked to see Carter dealing with his trauma in therapy. 

Yeah no kidding, how about after the death of his son. You are really trying to tell me than neither Carter or what's her name didn't seek help? Hell, Carter was at least showing a few years later it was still sad for him, but his "wife" was still to the point she didn't want to talk about it. For all her money, she SHOULD have afforded therapy after something as hard as losing a child.

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I was grossed out when the doctors, and Carter demanded that Kem see and touch her baby.     I guess it's standard practice, but it still seemed cruel.

Then when Jing-Mei (spelling?) had her baby and was putting him (?) up for adoption, demanding that she hold him seemed to trigger all kinds of doubts about giving him up, and also seemed rotten.     I guess they wanted the drama of her wavering in her decision, but it seemed to me that it would have been easier for her to not hold him the way she wanted to.    

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16 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I was grossed out when the doctors, and Carter demanded that Kem see and touch her baby.     I guess it's standard practice, but it still seemed cruel.

Then when Jing-Mei (spelling?) had her baby and was putting him (?) up for adoption, demanding that she hold him seemed to trigger all kinds of doubts about giving him up, and also seemed rotten.     I guess they wanted the drama of her wavering in her decision, but it seemed to me that it would have been easier for her to not hold him the way she wanted to.    

In real life, that doesn't actually happen. I've been delivering  babies since the early '80's and have never once browbeat a parent into holding their stillborn or seeing a child being surrendered for adoption.  The issue is not whether the mother sees the baby or not, it is that she gets a voice in the matter.  That she has control over that small portion of the situation and it is her decision as to what she will do.  I have certainly answered questions, discussed what the parent might see, especially in a very premature baby or one with obvious birth defects and then encouraged her to let us know what she wanted.  I also let moms know it is ok to change her mind either way.

Whoever wrote those scenes for ER obviously didn't do any research.  In the past, mothers didn't see their babies in this situation because somebody else decided that they shouldn't.  It is equally terrible for someone else to decide that they should.

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I started watching on Hulu this past summer and am now in the first half of season 6. I haven't seen the show since I was a teenager/college student and it was popular in TNT syndication. (I'm in my 30s now.) Anyway, not sure whether to post this in all episodes or here, but here it goes...

I cannot stand Doug and Carol and don't give one lick about them as individual characters or consider them a "power couple." I watched The Storm Part 2 and was just confused why, after Doug nearly cost Carol the clinic and acted so irresponsibly and pissed off even his best friend Mark, Carol wails later on about how she always loved him. What kind of partner really is Doug when he put his fiancee's professional well-being on the line? And both of them were pretty unloyal, having no problem hooking up with other men/women when they were supposed to be committed to each other.

I also thought maybe re-watching as an adult with life experience that I'd sympathize with Carol when she was pregnant with the twins and struggling on her own with them. Honestly I still find her annoying. She basically chose to be a single mother, barely talk with Doug during the pregnancy and then cried to everyone and their dog about how hard her life was with the babies. And what I found more interesting is that her coworkers were giving her endless sympathy and pats on the back for her oh-so-difficult life. To me, it was a little unbelievable that no one expressed irritation at her constantly being in daycare with Tess when she was supposed to be working, constantly crying in the lounge or in the med room about her difficulties and her head being everywhere but work. And then she ran off in the middle of her shift with no notice and it was totally peachy keen with all her coworkers because she was so in love with Doug? I get it's supposed to be a drama and not a documentary about working in an ER, but it seemed a little hard to buy that everyone catered to all her whining and crying and no one thought she should be focusing on work if she chose to return. I've worked with people who can't juggle parenthood and working, and even when they have legitimate problems, it is a horrible drain to be doing their job and mine because they are out or not focused all the time.

If Carol couldn't handle being at work, then she should've either gone to Seattle with Doug or been a stay-at-home mother.

And how did Doug get hired anywhere else after the fiasco with Ricky and Joi? Wouldn't word of that have spread in medicine? Wouldn't his references have been checked? Or was it considered a non-issue since the criminal investigation didn't go anywhere? I work in law, but I'm not a lawyer, and I don't work in medicine...so I didn't quite understand how he turned up wealthy and employed after that fiasco.

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I'm sure this won't be popular, but I couldn't stand the Mark Green character.  Below his thin nice guy veneer was in my estimation a self-righteous, selfish and essentially weak man.  He claimed to be in pain regarding the "loss" of wife and infant daughter, but clearly he made a choice in favor of his career over family.  Regarding his concern for friends, he'd help out, but only to the extent that it wouldn't adversely affect him or his reputation.  Then of course there was the time he committed what in California would have been deemed a premeditated first degree murder.  Not the most admirable of characters.  ER was good at adding realistic character flaws to otherwise sympathetic characters, but to me Mark Green was, in short, a grown up version of the grade school weenie who tattled on his classmates. 

Edited by Steve14
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On 5/29/2019 at 5:04 AM, Steve14 said:

I'm sure this won't be popular, but I couldn't stand the Mark Green character.  Below his thin nice guy veneer was in my estimation a self-righteous, selfish and essentially weak man

You nailed it. I often wondered how he could even stand up, because he was so friggin spineless.

On 5/29/2019 at 5:04 AM, Steve14 said:

He claimed to be in pain regarding the "loss" of wife and infant daughter, but clearly he made a choice in favor of his career over family

To be fair, Jen was no prize either.

On 5/29/2019 at 5:04 AM, Steve14 said:

Regarding his concern for friends, he'd help out, but only to the extent that it wouldn't adversely affect him or his reputation.  

I hated that about him. The classic fair weather friend. I remember it was only halfway through the first season that I started to dislike him--it was unbelievably crappy of him to let Susan think he was on her side during her clashes with Kaysen and not let her know otherwise until things got to the boiling point. And then he did the same thing during her arguments with Kerry, and the same thing to Doug when he was seeking the pediatric attending position.

On 5/29/2019 at 5:04 AM, Steve14 said:

Then of course there was the time he committed what in California would have been deemed a premeditated first degree murder.  

ANYWHERE.  That incident eclipsed any shred of respect I may have had left for him. The same guy who always blasted Doug for getting personally involved in cases and for his possible euthanasia of a patient is now doing something even worse. What a fucking hypocrite.

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On 6/3/2019 at 8:53 AM, Camille said:

To be fair, Jen was no prize either.

I have to confess to being legitimately moved during their last meeting before he died.  It was heartbreaking to see her not being able to admit that she was never going to see him again.

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3 hours ago, starri said:

I have to confess to being legitimately moved during their last meeting before he died.  It was heartbreaking to see her not being able to admit that she was never going to see him again.

I'll give her that much, but otherwise, I thought she was a hypocritical shrew who made his life hell. EVERYTHING she bitched at him about, she was guilty of herself, and she was cheating on him the entire time she complained about his friendship with Susan.

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On 6/5/2019 at 5:37 AM, starri said:

I have to confess to being legitimately moved during their last meeting before he died.  It was heartbreaking to see her not being able to admit that she was never going to see him again.

That scene really moved me too. I liked the way things ended between them. They both took responsibility for the end of their relationship and admitted they would always love each other, even though they weren't in love anymore. There were many times I didn't like Mark, but his death was written extremely well. It was very sad, but it was beautiful how he was able to make peace with everything. It was a fitting end to a life.

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On 6/5/2019 at 10:37 AM, starri said:

I have to confess to being legitimately moved during their last meeting before he died.  It was heartbreaking to see her not being able to admit that she was never going to see him again.

I watched this episode the other week and I interpreted that as kind of callous... as in she knew but she didn't want the hassle of acknowledging it. But I've never been in that position so i dunno. 

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On 11/25/2018 at 7:25 AM, Madam Captain said:

I didn't really like Jeanie at all. To me she seemed to think she was entitled to everything after she fought to get her job back (after she was diagnosed with HIV) and I actually disliked her even more after that. I couldn't stand Carla either, the way she treated Peter was terrible and she just seemed fake to me. In the later seasons, I hated Brenner, I hated everything about him. 

I could see myself disliking Jeanie with a lesser actress but Gloria Reuben was so good at conveying vulnerability that it's impossible

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Add me to the list who think Mark's death went on forever.  By the time they went to Hawaii (it was Hawaii wasn't it?) i didn't care.

Actually I hated the shows that went anywhere on location.

Hated Kem. Carter's story with her took him away from the hospital.

I also liked Malucci.  He was a nice change from all the cookie cutter ready for my close up doctors.

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1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

Actually I hated the shows that went anywhere on location.

Hated Kem. Carter's story with her took him away from the hospital.

I hated Kem, before during and after everything with Carter. I got her depression and upsetness with the death of Josiah, but by the end of the series, I was waiting for her to jump in front of a moving car, she looked that bad. 

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I couldn’t get over that Carter was with Kem for a few years and when we saw them in the last episode they were in the same bad place.  I hate the idea that Carter fought to be with her just to have spent those years banging his head against a wall.  The writers could have done better by him.   The best thing was him chipping in with the trauma and hopefully missing calling her.

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On 5/6/2017 at 12:20 PM, starri said:

I like Abby too, although, in fairness, I quit watching the show after she and Carter first got together.  I relate to her a lot, not so much because of the drunk part, but because I also decided to go to medical school later in life, albeit not because I busted my ass to put my husband through it first only to be dumbed for a younger model.

I hated Luka.  I don't know why but he always rubbed me the wrong way.

Malucci was hot, but I hated the way they tried to make him a lovable fuck up, and how we were supposed to pity him when he got fired.

Jing-Mei was every gunner I ever crossed paths with, but I liked her, probably because I like Ming-Na so much.

Susan was terrible when she returned.

Mark was a complete ass from S6 forward.

Re: Malucci, if anything the writers seemed to want you not to pity him, why else have his parting words be a venomous slur, why else have him chasing skirt only a few days after killing a patient. He gets a short scene with Chen but even that felt a bit like a tossed-off acknowledgement that - love him or hate him - he was a part of the ER family for two seasons. Objectively it was wrong to fire him - he acted idiotically with the Marfans patient, and it followed a long-running pattern of being overconfident in his assumptions, but you just can't fire a young resident for making a mistake. If he didn't lose his temper he could have easily fought the 'decision', which was Kerry's alone.

Edited by outsmartabullet

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-The only one of Carter’s romances I ever liked was with Maria Bello’s character, del Amico. I think they had a great dynamic and it was really sweet that she was there for him through his cousin’s overdose. She was able to be a good friend without being relegated to the *overly accommodating compassionate female* role. I wish her character had stayed on; their relationship could have really been something. I like relationships built on friendships—ones that aren’t are so lifeless, imo.

-I didn’t mind Mark and Corday together, at least not in the beginning. Like the whole thing with them trying and repeatedly failing to get to that physician’s conference together. All the ensuing drama with Ella and the brain tumor didn’t really bother me as much as it seems to bother everyone else, but it certainly was a lot of misery. Watching miserable thing after miserable thing gets draining, y’know.

-I didn’t hate Lucy. I think she could have grown into a really good character. She was pretty annoying at times, but she had good intentions and added some well-needed youthful earnestness to the show. I had a hate-love relationship with her and Carter’s whole angsty mentor-mentee thing; it was as irritating as it was compelling. Really glad they didn’t end up getting together, though. I am not one for doctors consorting with med students

-I loved Corday and Benton together, but I completely respect ELS’s reason for wanting that relationship broken up. Good on him for saying something, because ER certainly suffered when it came to handling social issues with grace. Yeah, really…they hadn’t had one black couple portrayed in a good light until La Salle intervened.

-Not that this is really an unpopular opinion, but I could never hate Carter. (It’s those big brown eyes and toothy smile, man!) I got a soft spot for naïve rookie characters, even when they inevitably become cynical and jaded. So much messed up shit happens to the guy you can't not feel for him. I admit Carter could get really insufferable, particularly during his surgical rotation, but he seemed to straighten himself out. He did push it sometimes though. (dating a 19 year old……come on, dude)

-I didn't hate Abby. (I’m only on season 8, though. Not sure if I plan to watch the later years). She’s callous and selfish, yeah, but I don't know...there are times I really like her. Mostly in terms of her early-on fraternization with Carter, when she went to that social function with him and sabotaged her ex’s date, when they broke into Luka’s apartment to replace the fish tank, etc. It's fun! TV shows always have to inject needless drama into relationships, and that’s why TV relationships tend to suck. Let couples have a little fun, for chrissakes. There’s a happy medium between overly angsty and overly mushy, and TV writers need to find it.
(Still, after “Secrets and Lies”, I've had it with Abby. There are some things that kill a character for me; laughing at child abuse is one of them). 

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1 hour ago, lastminutemaniac said:

-The only one of Carter’s romances I ever liked was with Maria Bello’s character, del Amico. I think they had a great dynamic and it was really sweet that she was there for him through his cousin’s overdose. She was able to be a good friend without being relegated to the *overly accommodating compassionate female* role. I wish her character had stayed on; their relationship could have really been something. I like relationships built on friendships—ones that aren’t are so lifeless, imo.

-

I agree 100% on this. They did a nice job developing the friendship so the idea of them data felt realistic and interesting. It could have been great.

I agree with most of your other points as well, except I could not stand Lucy. I don't hate Abby but also not a fan. They really overdid it with her. If there had been less Abby that would have helped.

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1 hour ago, lastminutemaniac said:

-The only one of Carter’s romances I ever liked was with Maria Bello’s character, del Amico.

Same here, although I'm not sure that's unpopular.  I like the way they worked through him having lied from the beginning and salvaged the friendship.  It was a nice trajectory, that could have developed just as naturally into dating.

1 hour ago, lastminutemaniac said:

-I loved Corday and Benton together, but I completely respect ELS’s reason for wanting that relationship broken up.

I've said this so many times I nearly bore myself, but I also agree so strongly I'm going to go ahead and do it again.  He liked the Benton/Corday relationship, too.  He just could not stomach being in such a visible role on such a visible show and perpetuating the problematic presentation.  It took courage to risk "making waves" like that, and good on him for having it.  Peter and Cleo being boring is a separate issue that does not negate his point.

1 hour ago, lastminutemaniac said:

I didn't hate Abby.

Co-sign this one, too.  She was perfectly fine by me.  They gave her too many storylines and connected characters as compared to the rest, but I find the Abby is the worst character ever refrain far more tiresome than that lopsided focus.

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I think it didn't help that Abby's entire freaking family was a major emotionally draining suck. Like, Abby couldn't have one random sister who wasn't exhausting to watch? I mean, kudos to Sally Field for her acting, but I always have to fucking fast forward or lower the volume whenever she's on screen. "Abby! Abby! ABBY! Abbbbby!" JFC, STFU. And then the "here we go again!" with brother Eric. ARGH. I almost wished Eric would have died in a plane crash. 

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1 hour ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I think it didn't help that Abby's entire freaking family was a major emotionally draining suck. Like, Abby couldn't have one random sister who wasn't exhausting to watch? I mean, kudos to Sally Field for her acting, but I always have to fucking fast forward or lower the volume whenever she's on screen. "Abby! Abby! ABBY! Abbbbby!" JFC, STFU. And then the "here we go again!" with brother Eric. ARGH. I almost wished Eric would have died in a plane crash. 

Yeah. The viewers already suffered through Maggie. Did these writers really think they wanted to see the sequel with Eric and Abby once more treating a family member like shit? Miss me with that.

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15 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah. The viewers already suffered through Maggie. Did these writers really think they wanted to see the sequel with Eric and Abby once more treating a family member like shit? Miss me with that.

I was fairly neutral on Abby until we had episode after episode with her rolling her eyes and behaving like an a** every time her mother appeared.  The initial arc was well-written and, as expected, Sally Field was outstanding.  Unfortunately, at that point, the show was running out of new ideas and TPTB somehow decided that shoving Immature, whiny Abby and her annoying family and their problems down our throats was going to be entertaining.  Not so much.

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Watching the interactions between the other doctors and their parents was much more preferable than watching Abby interact with any of hers. MT may have been a good actress (I guess?), but she never moved me with her acting. I'll take scenes of wet noodle Mark and his bed-wetting father, or Elizabeth and her mother, or for sure Carter and his family, over a single scene with Abby and hers. Even now the hug between Carter and his mom in season 8 (the one where he's wearing the thickest turtleneck ever) makes my eyes glisten up a little bit. 

I feel like the happiest we ever saw Abby be was when she punctured her ex-husband's tires. 

Edited by MVFrostsMyPie
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The thing with Abby that I disliked was that I never felt like we were supposed to care about her work, just her personal drama. 

ER was always personal drama mixed with work but I felt like there was a core of characters where we consistently cared about their work. I might have hated Kerry Weaver but we saw how at times she was an excellent doctor, and how she could be hypocritical in her enforcement of The Rules when it was someone she cared about. Ray Romano was an asshole but I never doubted he was a good surgeon. Hell, they kind of railroaded his character but Dave Malucci seemed like a pretty good doctor. 

But with Abby it was just drama, drama, drama. And I got tired of it.

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17 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Even now the hug between Carter and his mom in season 8 (the one where he's wearing the thickest turtleneck ever) makes my eyes glisten up a little bit. 

I love the Eleanor arc (which is pretty much a given, as I love Mary McDonnell, but I'd have enjoyed it with another actor, too, because I like what it gives Carter).  I know scheduling meant they likely couldn't have ever got her back even if they'd tried, but I wish they'd had Carter mention her from time to time, indicating they'd spent time together, so we knew the progress made in that arc continued.

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4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

The thing with Abby that I disliked was that I never felt like we were supposed to care about her work, just her personal drama. 

ER was always personal drama mixed with work but I felt like there was a core of characters where we consistently cared about their work. I might have hated Kerry Weaver but we saw how at times she was an excellent doctor, and how she could be hypocritical in her enforcement of The Rules when it was someone she cared about. Ray Romano was an asshole but I never doubted he was a good surgeon. Hell, they kind of railroaded his character but Dave Malucci seemed like a pretty good doctor. 

But with Abby it was just drama, drama, drama. And I got tired of it.

With Abby, it was also excessive screentime.  When she had a personal story, it dominated the show for episode after episode which also lead to viewer fatigue.  There was also the constant Mary Sue treatment she received from TPTB.  Every man she came across thought she was the hottest, sexiest, most attractive woman ever.  No other female character on the show, and all of the female leads were quite pretty in different ways, IMO, ever got that sort of attention from men.  Then, as a nurse and eventually a doctor, Abby was just the smartest, hardest working, finest practitioner anyone had ever seen; they were in awe of her skills.  But, we never really saw that, we saw Abby complain and whine and often dump work on others.  We saw her disobey direct orders, treat patients against their wishes and flunk her boards; but the show kept telling us she was just the best doctor, most beautiful, desirable woman ever.  No, she wasn't, not eve close/

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There was just too much Abby. Abby in smaller doses might have made for some great arcs and a favorite character. Her mood matched the dark sets.

My one carve out though is one of the Maggie arcs--might be the first one. It's where Maggie explains to Abby how when Abby was born Maggie tried to "decide to be well" for her daughter (scene at the L station). And she wasn't able to do that. I think I might have first watched this while on maternity leave, which may be a factor--but the scene gutted me. I really felt like I understood the burden Maggie had as a sick person. Emmy earned in my opinion.

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16 hours ago, doodlebug said:

With Abby, it was also excessive screentime.  When she had a personal story, it dominated the show for episode after episode which also lead to viewer fatigue.

Exactly. I liked her fine in the sixth season. By the sixth episode of the seventh season, when it became obvious that the show was now going to be all about her and her miserable life, I was exhausted and couldn't stand her.

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I'm on my 2nd rewatch through the entire series, currently (though I've seen the first 4-5 seasons a few times), and Malucci is much more entertaining that I remember him being the first time, and I liked him the first time as well. I think he would have been better to keep around than pretty much any of the other S6 additions and they could have done a lot with his character. Yes, he can make stupid decisions but he's really no worse than Doug was in the first 5 seasons, he just never got the chance to be developed in the same way. 

The first half of S6, they actually give him some things to do - you can see some really cool moments of him being a good, caring doctor and a complex person - but then the cast got too bloated and they focused too much on Abby (and Luka, to an extent) so Malucci got pushed to the side and I'm honestly a little bitter about it. 

(And yes, I may have come to this forum for the first time just to preach about how underrated of a character Malucci is...)

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I did not like Doctor Dave at all at first but I agree that Malucci improved and got more complex. I would have been fine with them keeping him on in favor of other new additions if they'd kept on that path of character development. Him leaving the way he did always felt odd and overly abrupt.

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On 10/6/2019 at 9:33 PM, doodlebug said:

With Abby, it was also excessive screentime.  When she had a personal story, it dominated the show for episode after episode which also lead to viewer fatigue.  There was also the constant Mary Sue treatment she received from TPTB.  Every man she came across thought she was the hottest, sexiest, most attractive woman ever.  No other female character on the show, and all of the female leads were quite pretty in different ways, IMO, ever got that sort of attention from men. 

Totally agree. And it wasn't just her looks weren't all that and more but also her personality. She wasn't all that likable. It's not like she radiated sunshine and rainbows. And while she did have a lot of drama in her life she didn't act like a damsel in distress that men would want to save her. I truly have no idea why the show runners felt like they would make Abby's character the star of the show. It's not like she was a breakout character that fans were clamoring to see more of. Maura Tierney was an OK actress but honestly every show I have seen her on she has been more or less the same character to me.

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7 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

Totally agree. And it wasn't just her looks weren't all that and more but also her personality. She wasn't all that likable. It's not like she radiated sunshine and rainbows. And while she did have a lot of drama in her life she didn't act like a damsel in distress that men would want to save her. I truly have no idea why the show runners felt like they would make Abby's character the star of the show. It's not like she was a breakout character that fans were clamoring to see more of. Maura Tierney was an OK actress but honestly every show I have seen her on she has been more or less the same character to me.

She was an anchor on the show, for me. She weighed everything down. Especially when they had Carter and Luka fighting over her, then Carter 'wins' and gets to deal with her woe-is-me act and her tedious family. No wonder he ran away to Africa and married someone who didn't seem to like him very much.

I'm rewatching season 2 at the moment, and my god, Doug Ross is such a chore. Self-sabotaging and self-righteous, blaming everyone else for his own shit and then moping in the dark about what a dickhead he is.

This season has some of my favourite Carol moments though - all of them coming through her relationship with Shep, which was charming and fun. I love the bit where she shows him the house she's bought, and her smile is just blinding as she realises she's genuinely happy. Shame the writers threw her back onto the altar of Doug.

Edited by Danny Franks

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I didn't watch the final season, but the only thing I remember any guy saying about Abbie's looks was Luka's infamous "You're not that pretty. You're not that special," and her replying that it was good enough for him in the bedroom.

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2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I didn't watch the final season, but the only thing I remember any guy saying about Abbie's looks was Luka's infamous "You're not that pretty. You're not that special," and her replying that it was good enough for him in the bedroom.

I remember that, but the show went way in the other direction as others said here: Abby was suddenly the be-all, end-all, and it got annoying. Fast.

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18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I remember that, but the show went way in the other direction as others said here: Abby was suddenly the be-all, end-all, and it got annoying. Fast.

Yeah, Abby had medical students coming out of the woodwork hitting on her and even had a fling with  one who was significantly younger.  He was actually looking for a residency someplace in Chicago so they could keep seeing each other and she very bluntly put him in his place.  Then, patient after patient, episode after episode, commented on how pretty Abby was, how she was an MILF (a couple of teen boys seemed to think she was the sexiest thing ever in her baggy scrubs, lank hair hanging in her eyes).  Young and old, men and women, patients and coworkers; found the need to remark on her beauty and proclaim her to be just the most gorgeous, brilliant, accomplished woman ever. In all her years on the show, there was virtually no moment that Abby wasn't in a relationship or being pursued by someone; something that can't be said about any of the other leads; most of whom, IMO, were far more physically attractive than Abby.

Edited by doodlebug
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I remember a hot fireman asking Abbie out, and her saying no because she was waiting for (and expecting) Carter to ask her out. Then Carter rejected her, because he felt that she was falling back on him as her second choice, after things with Luka didn't work out.

This was just after Susan came back, and fell into a weird, quasi-relationship with Carter that went nowhere (because Carter was never allowed to have a normal, healthy relationship for more than five minutes).

There was definitely a feeling of 'Abbie is special and tortured, and the world revolves around her', and no small amount of that feeling came from Abbie herself. I stopped watching the show when Carter left, but I understand that Abbie's romantic exploits remained a large focus of the last few seasons. She was an odd amalgamation of Carol and Doug, in her moping and woe-is-me attitude, and her self righteousness.

I generally feel like the show did that a lot, when adding new characters - they looked at the archetypes of their original characters, and tried to recreate them in new people. It rarely worked.

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I hated how inconsistent the writing was.   First Carrie fights with poor Sandy's family for the baby Henry, then they suddenly go with the status quo, and everything's supposed to be all wonderful again.   then a few seasons later, Carrie moves to Miami to be a medical reporter or something, and Henry isn't mentioned again, and leaving Sandy's family behind isn't mentioned either.  

(I fixed Henry's name, oops!)

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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21 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I hated how inconsistent the writing was.   First Carrie fights with poor Sandy's family for the baby Carlos, then they suddenly go with the status quo, and everything's supposed to be all wonderful again.   then a few seasons later, Carrie moves to Miami to be a medical reporter or something, and Carlos isn't mentioned again, and leaving Sandy's family behind isn't mentioned either.  

Small correction: Carlos was Jeannie's son.  Kerry's little boy was Henry.  You're right, though, it made no sense.  Same thing with Kerry's limp, which she'd apparently had since birth; but was miraculously cured with a simple hip replacement surgery.  A surgery that has been around for decades and works wonderfully (I've actually had one myself).  Which begs the question as to why Kerry didn't do it sooner.  There was also the fact that, prior to the surgery, despite the fact that there was no personal relationship between them outside the hospital, Kerry asked Abby to be Henry's guardian if anything happened to her.  This, despite the fact that Sandy had a large family including at least one brother around Sandy's age who was married and had kids around the same age as Henry and who had been very supportive of Kerry and Sandy's relationship and presumably had ongoing contact with the baby.  That was part of the beatification of St. Abby, letting us know what a wonderful maternal person she was in preparation for Abby having her own child who she proceeded to neglect and nearly killed a couple of times.

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On 11/28/2019 at 7:23 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

First Carrie fights with poor Sandy's family for the baby Henry

I barely watched at that point, but didn't poor Sandy's family consist largely of a bunch of homophobes who tried to deny Kerry her rightful place in Henry's life for lack of a biological connection, something they would not have done had Sandy's partner been a man?

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7 hours ago, Bastet said:

I barely watched at that point, but didn't poor Sandy's family consist largely of a bunch of homophobes who tried to deny Kerry her rightful place in Henry's life for lack of a biological connection, something they would not have done had Sandy's partner been a man?

The story was also badly written, especially when Chicago at the time recognized same sex couples parental rights with "their" children. The way it was, the parents were the problem and one of the other brothers were: "We are his family and you are not." Especially when it was established that Sandy had been out of the closet for some time. 

  Of course that was the classic: "The actress is on another show where she is paid more, so option is to kill off or write off the character in a dramatic way." 

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Which begs the question as to why Kerry didn't do it sooner. 

I think it happened when it did because Laura Innes just got tired of working with the crutch or something like that.

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30 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

I think it happened when it did because Laura Innes just got tired of working with the crutch or something like that.

Laura Innes was actually having back problems due to using the crutch.  I understand why it was done, it was just kinda surprising that ER didn't invent some brand new, never been tried, hip surgery for Kerry's unknown problem.  It was the fact that the 'cure' for Kerry's lifelong condition was a rather routine surgery that should've been done decades earlier.  After all, they totally invented a miraculous cure for glioblastoma so that Mark and Lizzie could wander around NYC for an eppy or two.  There was a similar procedure being researched at the time the show aired; it gave the average patient up to TWO MONTHS longer survival over conventional treatment; it was never a cure.  It's still around and still not a cure.

1 hour ago, readster said:

The story was also badly written, especially when Chicago at the time recognized same sex couples parental rights with "their" children. The way it was, the parents were the problem and one of the other brothers were: "We are his family and you are not." Especially when it was established that Sandy had been out of the closet for some time. 

  Of course that was the classic: "The actress is on another show where she is paid more, so option is to kill off or write off the character in a dramatic way." 

At least one of Sandy's brothers also apologized to Kerry, telling her that not all of the family was opposed to her relationship with Sandy, but that their mother wanted the suit.  The fact that they all gave up completely, surrendering full custody to Kerry without a fight because they simply changed their minds was also s head scratcher.  People that homophobic are not likely to just up and quit.  It was also nonsensical that apparently neither Kerry nor Sandy had taken any steps to assure Kerry's parental rights and that Sandy didn't have a will with clear instructions as to her son's future.

There's also the fact that somebody, presumably Sandy's family, was taking care of Henry while Kerry was undergoing surgery and recovering.  Homophobia isn't the flu, people don't recover from it overnight.  Even if there was court-ordered visitation for Sandy's mom, why would Kerry let her son spend more than the minimum with her if she was so hostile?

Edited by doodlebug
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57 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Laura Innes was actually having back problems due to using the crutch.  I understand why it was done, it was just kinda surprising that ER didn't invent some brand new, never been tried, hip surgery for Kerry's unknown problem.  It was the fact that the 'cure' for Kerry's lifelong condition was a rather routine surgery that should've been done decades earlier.  After all, they totally invented a miraculous cure for glioblastoma so that Mark and Lizzie could wander around NYC for an eppy or two.  There was a similar procedure being researched at the time the show aired; it gave the average patient up to TWO MONTHS longer survival over conventional treatment; it was never a cure.  It's still around and still not a cure.

Yeah, and when it was revealed when Kerry met her birth mother that she NEVER KNEW about her hip problem after she was born. I wanted to go: "You are a doctor who knows how the adoption system works. You never thought that 40 years ago, you were taken and that was it?" I also remember Laurie Innes saying the writers never had a "Set plan" on why Kerry had her crutch. Why it was all the talk for a couple of seasons and then just left in the lurch. I remember my mom saying after the episode first aired: "So why the hell did you wait over 30 years because it was so easy?" If anything at least after Kerry became an attending or when she was promoted to chief. She just didn't get the surgery then and just had it go: "Well, now I do make money and my loans are paid off. Let's get rid of this damn crutch!" 

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On 11/30/2019 at 10:06 AM, doodlebug said:

It was also nonsensical that apparently neither Kerry nor Sandy had taken any steps to assure Kerry's parental rights and that Sandy didn't have a will with clear instructions as to her son's future.

Especially since Sandy had a job that put her in danger.

I never liked Kerry Weaver.  The writers didn't seem to have a consistent backstory for her.  It was like they were making it up as they went along.

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5 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

Especially since Sandy had a job that put her in danger.

I never liked Kerry Weaver.  The writers didn't seem to have a consistent backstory for her.  It was like they were making it up as they went along.

Certainly the decision to make Kerry gay was an about-face from the earlier seasons where we saw her with the guy she'd met in Africa as well as her later relationship with the guy who was working for the company that wanted to manage the ER.

They'd written an interesting backstory for Kerry with the connection to Africa, the adoption and the limp and TPTB never really capitalized on those things the way that they could've.

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19 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Certainly the decision to make Kerry gay was an about-face from the earlier seasons where we saw her with the guy she'd met in Africa as well as her later relationship with the guy who was working for the company that wanted to manage the ER.

They'd written an interesting backstory for Kerry with the connection to Africa, the adoption and the limp and TPTB never really capitalized on those things the way that they could've.

I very agree with this. It felt like they were looking for story lines and just added that on.

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Almost like they felt they needed a gay character and saw Kerry as the easiest option for that. Or maybe they just picked her name out of a hat, who knows.

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I think Kerry was just the least developed of the 'main' cast that was left on the show. She didn't have a whole lot of history outside the hospital - just the boyfriend from Africa and Clancy Brown - and with original cast members leaving at quite a clip, they needed to move her into the spotlight.

Doug left in season 5, Carol and Jeannie left in season 6, Malucci and Lucy obviously hadn't worked out as cast additions. And Anthony Edwards had been making noises about leaving, possibly Eriq La Salle too.

I'm sure there was an element of wanting to find some LGBTQ representation as well, but Laura Innes probably wanted more, and the producers probably wanted their established characters to get meaty storylines.

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On 11/28/2019 at 10:23 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I hated how inconsistent the writing was.   First Carrie fights with poor Sandy's family for the baby Henry, then they suddenly go with the status quo, and everything's supposed to be all wonderful again.   then a few seasons later, Carrie moves to Miami to be a medical reporter or something, and Henry isn't mentioned again, and leaving Sandy's family behind isn't mentioned either.  

(I fixed Henry's name, oops!)

In general the custody issues on the show were handled atrociously. Maybe my least favorite is Peter perjuring himself so he could have sole custody of Reese. And the feeling that he hooked up with Cleo so she could be a glorified babysitter to Reese. Reese had already suffered a lot of loss and was a special needs child. Everything we knew about Peter told us he was a prickly man but mature enough to recognize that kids never hurt to have another loving adult in their lives.

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 9:30 PM, Growsonwalls said:

In general the custody issues on the show were handled atrociously. Maybe my least favorite is Peter perjuring himself so he could have sole custody of Reese. And the feeling that he hooked up with Cleo so she could be a glorified babysitter to Reese. Reese had already suffered a lot of loss and was a special needs child. Everything we knew about Peter told us he was a prickly man but mature enough to recognize that kids never hurt to have another loving adult in their lives.

There was also the many instances, especially in the early seasons, where we learned about Peter's strong, loving family and all of the support they gave him as he was growing up.  Peter was shown to be very close to his mother and we were told he had a good relationship with his late father.  It made no sense that Peter would try to cut Roger out of Reese' life after Carla died.  He was always a guy who valued family.

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