S03.E12: Uprising

[Shanna]

The obvious solution was to convince Malcolm to fight Ra's. If Oliver is playing a long game of trying to guilt him into doing that maybe I'll forgive this.

[apinknightmare]

This forced redemption of Malcol is absolutely ridiculous. Does Roy really think that Malcolm is a loving father. SERIOUSLY> Thea, the girl who is clueless and seriously deranged was able to convinve him that he is a loving father. And Laurel, seriously he killed your boyfriend!!!!  AND OLIVER what the hell? The story was crap imo. Team Felicity.

 

Seriously. The sheer idiocy is killing me. 

 

Also, time jump alert: Oliver was gone for a month.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Is Ted dead?  I'm sure that was supposed to be crystal clear in MG's mind, but I really have no idea.  I didn't hate you, Ted, but I won't be sad if you're dead.  We just have too many people on this show as it is.

[Chaser]

Roy's entire speech made me want to scream. He's misguided. He meant well. He cares. WTF! And this is someone who knows what Malcolm did to Thea and Sara???

 

TEAM FELICITY

[ottoDbusdriver]

I also can't believe that the Starling City PD would abandon the apparently only police station in the Glades -- and also leave all the weapons in the armory for whoever moved in next.  What the hell Quentin ? That seems pretty irresponsible. 

 

But not as unbelievable that all of Brick's men holstered their guns for that street fight.  Instead of running head forward at Team Arrow and the rest of the Glades community, why not just open up with machine guns or some of those lovely shotguns in the police station ?  Mow them all down -- problem solved.  Because Brick really didn't have an aversion to killing for any reason.

 

On the plus side, no Ray this episode.

Edited February 5, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[El Seed]

What the hell is wrong with these people?! That's the first thing I thought when Roy gave his "Malcolm really cares about Thea and the Glades speech" and they start debating about working with him. Seriously? Let's ignore the inane hypnotizing Thea to kill Sara storyline? It's made 100 times worse by Oliver's alliance with Malcolm. Don't get me wrong, I understand working Malcolm in the fight for the Glades and in taking down Ra's. But Oliver is going to continue to allow Malcolm to be a factor in Thea's life DESPITE what he did to her? Not that I can let Thea off the hook, she knows the monster that Malcolm is and blindly ignores it.

 

 

Haha, I facepalmed when Roy speechified that they should work with Malcolm because he cares about Thea and the Glades. And that moment was made even better later on with Thea earnestly telling her bio dad that she told Roy what a caring person Malcolm is, because of Malcolm's response of "Lolz, I'm not a good person, kid." Honestly, it kind of baffles me that Malcolm can't take over this city in a matter of days when he can get people to believe this shit.

[blixie]

 

but really, she doesn't have a leg to stand on considering she's actively keeping Sara's death from Quentin.

 

Exactly, Team Arrow has always been on moral quicksand, I love the amount of time it took for her to process Oliver is alive and reject him for being a moral disappointment. Was it 30 entire seconds or a full 60?

 

Sure. Fine. Whatever.

[Coop33]

Overall, this wasn't too bad. Laurel as Black Canary is still completely unbelievable to me, and it looks like they've dropped the storyline about her struggling for now. I'm looking forward to Oliver chiming in on what he thinks about all of this.

 

Regarding Olicity, I'm sad with how it ended, but I am happy that it mostly makes sense for these characters, and they're no longer separated "because reasons." This is good angst. That final scene was really well done, and I loved when Oliver went to move toward her and Felicity completely shut that down.  Emily Bett Rickards performance was phenomenal, and Oliver looked almost as upset as he did when he had a sword plunged through his chest. A rebound with Ray seems almost inevitable though, and the thought is making me nauseous.

 

Finally, it's ridiculous that everyone can tell Roy is Arsenal, yet Thea and Quentin can't pick out their own masked family members. At least Quentin will be in the know regarding Laurel soon. Thank God for Sin.

[NoWayOut]

Malcolm drugged Thea and made her kill Sara. He willingly turned his daughter into a killer to save his own ass. No way in hell are they ever going to convince me that he loves her and is looking out for her best interest.

[apinknightmare]

Exactly, Team Arrow has always been on moral quicksand, I love the amount of time it took for her to process Oliver is alive and reject him for being a moral disappointment. Was it 30 entire seconds or a full 60?

 

Sure. Fine. Whatever.

 

To be fair to her, it doesn't take long to process someone being a fucking moron for teaming up with someone who tried to get him killed, haha.

[GirlvsTV]

This forced redemption of Malcol is absolutely ridiculous. Does Roy really think that Malcolm is a loving father. SERIOUSLY> Thea, the girl who is clueless and seriously deranged was able to convinve him that he is a loving father. And Laurel, seriously he killed your boyfriend!!!!  AND OLIVER what the hell? The story was crap imo. Team Felicity.

AND Roy knows what Malcolm did to Thea! How could he ever believe that when he knows Malcolm made his daughter into a killer and a target for the League?! Would a loving father do that to his child?

It's like everyone in this episode aside from Sin, Felicity and Diggle contracted a severe case of the stupids.

[benteen]

In fairness, you don't want ARGUS to get involved.  This version of Amanda Waller will literally see her country burn to the ground just to win a single battle.  You don't need that kind of help.

 

The forced redemption of Malcolm Merlyn...BRILLIANT way of putting that.  I can't believe Roy went on that "Malcolm is really a good man!" rant.  Seriously, he KNOWS what Malcolm did to her but apparently his brain doesn't function when Thea is involved.  What happened to Malcolm's wife was terrible but everything that happened afterwards was because of the choices Malcolm made.

[dtissagirl]

Also, the biggest indictment of this show right now is that it's totally boring. At this point, I'm going to drop it out of boredom, rather than rage.

Pretty much this for me as well. Boredom is winning over any other emotions big time. I'm disappointed I can't even hate-watch properly, because it's such a snorefest all around. A humorless one at it too.

[Starfish35]

Didn't eight of Roy's friends die in what Malcolm did to the Glades? Guy's either got a short memory, or Malcolm's been feeding him some of those herbs.

[apinknightmare]

Pretty much this for me as well. Boredom is winning over any other emotions big time. I'm disappointed I can't even hate-watch properly, because it's such a snorefest all around. A humorless one at it too.

 

I actually thought this one was way more entertaining than, say, the last two. If only because it was so batshit stupid, haha. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Anything trending on Twitter this episode?  Has MG stepped away from Twitter due to all of the people rage tweeting him? (I'm guessing "no").

[Soulfire]

I'm not going to be on either Team Oliver or Team Felicity because I understand Oliver's side, but I also understand Felicity's side. Get where they're both coming from.

 

They're trying to make Laurel work so hard I've lost all sense of characterization for her. I'll say that I have more faith in the Tooth Fairy than Laurel, though.

 

Maybe I'll comment more tomorrow. The episode left me feeling kinda... whelmed?

 

Also, MG? A 10 on the heartbreaking scale? I'm going to let Harkness do the talk for me:

 

[Angel12d]

I wasn't going to watch but the stupid got the better of me, although I only caught some of it. 

 

I was most worried about the Olicity reunion and that terrible terrible line of dialogue but it all makes sense and I can deal with this kind of angst where it's centred around character conflict. Why would she want to be loved by him when he does such questionable things involving the people he loves? I do understand where he's coming from but I finally heard Felicity's voice tonight and it was about time.

 

Because all I got from that is that Felicity does want to be with Oliver - she even fantasized about what would happen if he came back - but he messed that up with his dumb idea to team up with Malcolm. That guy should not be redeemed ever. 

 

I'll still hate whatever is going to happen with Felicity and Ray but the whole time I'll just be thinking 'You're sloppy seconds, yo!' 

Edited February 5, 2015 by Angel12d

[dtissagirl]

How many speeches were there in this episode? Seven? Eight? There were A LOT of speeches. Usually they limit the speechifying to Malcolm, but this time they went nuts there with everyone.

Maybe Malcolm is drugging everyone into giving speeches.

[janeta]

Re: Wonderwall's post:

Nope, i will always love Felicity. :-)

Edited February 5, 2015 by janeta

[Hook75]

I don't know why they feel the need to redeem Malcolm Merlyn...he is at his best when he is the BSC make no apologies bastard.

[Angel12d]

Also, can we stop sidelining Diggle? In what universe should the trained special ops soldier be left behind in the foundry while Laurel and Roy go out to handle things? GTFO with that bullshit. 

 

SAVE DIGGLE 2k15.

[ban1o]

Didn't Laurel want to kill Malcolm in episode 4? Didn't Roy just tell Malclm in the last episode that he was "poison" and should get away from Thea. Why is the writing making these characters so stupid. 

Edited February 5, 2015 by ban1o

[InsertWordHere]

I can write off Oliver's reasoning as either playing a long game or he's just that freaking terrified of Ra's al Ghul, the man who plunged a sword a through him and pushed him off a cliff. There's even a precedent for Oliver shutting down and freaking out after a defeat, and this was quite a defeat.

 

But Roy? The same character who lived in the Glades and saw the destruction Malcolm's earthquake machine caused? It makes no sense. Also, if Malcolm really cared about the city, he wouldn't have been at the train station that night; he would have been out using his assassin skills trying to help bring down Slade. As much as I like Thea, the fact that Malcolm was there to save her that night while others weren't (because they were trying to save the city), actually hurts Roy's argument. 

[Angel12d]

Didn't Laurel want to kill Malcolm in episode 4? Didn't Roy just tell Malclm in the last episode that he was "poison" and should get away from Thea. Why is the writing making these characters so stupid. 

 

They're writing for plot instead of character. And the writers also seem to suffer with selective memory loss because they forget what they've written for their own characters before. Just last week Roy was telling Malcolm to stay away from Thea and now he's drinking his crazy Kool-Aid. 

Edited February 5, 2015 by Angel12d

[blixie]

 

I'm not going to be on either Team Oliver or Team Felicity because I understand Oliver's side, but I also understand Felicity's side. Get where they're both coming from.

 

I understand Felicity, I just don't really agree with her. Oliver's behavior is stupid and contrived, and as usual they've opted to have him learn NOTHING. I actually think his "side" is bullshit, but eeeeh working with Malcolm to put down Brick is definitely Bullshit. Working with Malcolm to put down an equal or greater evil, such as Ra's al Ghul? Acceptable to me. It's not like training under Malcolm requires trust, and it certainly puts Oliver in the keep your enemies closer vein. Mostly I just don't care about ANY of it. Fuck Felicity's lightening quick moral stand and fuck Oliver's stupidity. Meh.

[bethy]

I thought SA did a very nice job of making Oliver just seem weary. He moved differently, held himself stiffly. I like seeing the lingering effects of his injuries.

 

I also think EBR is doing a lovely job with some changes for Felicity's demeanor. Her voice isn't as light, there's a deeper tone to it maybe(?), even when she's making a joke. 

 

It's nicely done on both their parts.

[Orion]

I knocked Ray for it so I have to knock Oliver for it. You do not tell a woman what she is upset about. Bad Show!!!

 

Roy saying Oliver's failed this city line. Seriously is nothing sacred. Anything else you guys want to steal? The ferns still around isn't it maybe Laurel can grab it on her way out.

 

I was so proud of Felicity at the end. Thank god someone hasn't lost their minds. MM - left 8 year old Tommy on his own to grieve his mother, called his son weak when he got home, killed Oliver/Sara/Robert by blowing up a yacht, and because of that sentences Oliver to 5 years in hell and Sara to god only knows what, killed Frank Chen, and several Unidact employees, leveled half a city -killing 503 people one of which was Tommy, screwed with Thea's mind and made her kill Sara are the show runners out of their minds. Totally redeemable, maybe Oliver can watch football with him on Sunday's. 

 

Laurel *sigh* I just can't, this is so beyond idiotic I can't even laugh at it. Really appreciated her telling Felicity that she knows this because, "she's been paying attention" Good job Laurel you managed not to snap at Dig and Felicity for a whole episode.

 

Loved seeing Sin again. Seriously want that actress back on the show. Anyone at this point that can help ground it.

 

I may have finally reached apathy about this show., 

[Hook75]

I can write off Oliver's reasoning as either playing a long game or he's just that freaking terrified of Ra's al Ghul, the man who plunged a sword a through him and pushed him off a cliff. There's even a precedent for Oliver shutting down and freaking out after a defeat, and this was quite a defeat.

 

 

I think he is terrified that Ra's al Ghul will go after Thea and he is willing to do whatever it takes to protect her.

[thuganomics85]

A new hero as arrived: Sin, the Bringer of Truth and Light!  Loved that she isn't an idiot and knows that isn't the real Sara.  And told Quentin!  I wished he figured it out himself (I mean, he can freaking figure out Roy is Arsenal), but I'm glad he at least knows that he is being lied too.  I hope he finds out the truth soon, and he gives it to Laurel and the rest of Team Arrow.

 

Wow, I can't believe they are going there.  We are really doing a Malcolm Merlyn Redemption Tour?  Really?!  I mean, I can give Thea a pass since who knows what those drugs have done to her brain, but Roy being all "He truly loves this city!" makes me feel like I'm suppose to be agreeing with them.  So, I guess Sara, Tommy, and the rest of the victims of his little bomb can just fuck off, huh?  Malcolm isn't that bad!  Fuck off, show.

 

I don't know how they did it, but they somehow made a Team Arrow and Glades citizens vs. Brick and his men brawl in the streets so boring.  Just a lot of moving parts, but nothing stood out, besides Brick beating the shit out of Ted Grant.  It wasn't even close to the fight versus Slade and his men from last season.

 

Ollie finally comes back, but since he's "I want Malcolm to train me!" about it, there was no happy reunion.  I'm not even going to bother with that final scene with Felicity.  It is obvious that it's just a way to probably push Felicity into Creepy Ray's arms for good, and let Ollie brood some more.  Because, apparently,  Barry is the only superhero allowed to smile in this DC universe.

 

Favorite part was easily Quentin mocking the Arsenal name.  I miss snarky Quentin.  We'll probably won't see much of it, thanks to these jerks.

Edited February 5, 2015 by thuganomics85

[calliope1975]

It hasn't aired here yet, but I'm thinking I'll just do a quick fast forward watch of this one. Unless Oliver is conning Merlyn, I will accept no reasons for teaming up with him. And if he is conning Merlyn, that's something you share with your trusted teammates. I just have a bad feeling in the finale we'll get all these flashbacks of retcons just to make any of this understandable.

[BkWurm1]

The forced redemption of Malcolm Merlyn...BRILLIANT way of putting that.  I can't believe Roy went on that "Malcolm is really a good man!" rant.  Seriously, he KNOWS what Malcolm did to her but apparently his brain doesn't function when Thea is involved.  What happened to Malcolm's wife was terrible but everything that happened afterwards was because of the choices Malcolm made.

 

How do we reconcile this Roy with the Roy that followed Malcolm and told him he's never going to win because Thea will somehow find out the truth?  I was going to say that maybe Roy WANTS to find something redeemable about Malcolm because it's what Thea wants but then I remembered last week. 

 

Maybe it's because Malcolm saved his life?  I get why he and Laurel wanted Malcolm, they were scared and didn't have a clue what to do.  Incidentally, was it the best strategy to just start walking down the street?  Didn't make sense for either side to just randomly agree to a massive street brawl. 

 

I don't think Ted is dead.  He got beat up, not shot.  If Sin wasn't sure the woman in Black wasn't Sara, she certainly figured it out when in the middle of the on going fight she stopped to cradle Wildcat (and pull his mask off, oh Laurel, secret identities are secret)  Finish the fight, then see to the injured.  

 

There was something seriously loopy about the time line and location of Oliver's fight.  He wasn't supposed to be in some country in Asia.  He didn't have time to go that far, but somehow Maseo dragged him on a little sled all the way to one. 

 

I agree that the editing at he end was out of whack.  They should have had a brief Team Arrow reunion, just long enough for back slapping and hugs.  Maybe a few longing looks and then have him need to go see Thea.  They'd understand of course, then when he came back, then he could drop his idiot bomb. 

[Delphi]

#thankyousin is what I posted on Twitter. I'm not mad that sin was the one to help Quinton, that actually felt pretty organic to me.

I don't think Ted is dead, I think it's just to be dramatic. I also don't think DC would let them kill Wildcat.

I don't think that Ollie should have went home so soon it would have made more sense to go to the foundry first but that's just me but then I did cheer when he showed up at the fight.

When did laurel get a vote? "She doesn't even go here!!" But I think they are probably going to skip the trails and hardship and just make her straight up black canary. It won't make sense but casual viewers will accept it or get over it. Hardcore fans don't like it but their going to do it. They'll retcon.

Dear writers, (my auto correct changed that to quitters and I was tempted to keep it) please stop dumbing down the characters. Felicity would know if she was being hacked, Roy wouldn't trust Malcolm.

As a final note I was so mad when it looked like dig stayed behind again but then he turns the corner with a machine gun. Go dig.

Also thank you Sin. At least you recognize your big sister.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Delphi

[Chaser]

What are Olicity fans supposed to rage at? I wasn't raging. At all.

 

I thought it was a good scene with Oliver and Felicity. They both seemed strung out. Oliver was wary and Felicity was so confused. And I loved Felicity laying it down for Oliver. I thought we would get rage based on what MG was saying, but I think it was disappointment and hurt. The scene just needed more time. 

 

I understand aligning with someone to take down a bigger evil, but at this point Malcolm is the bigger bad. 

[Serena]

Roy's entire speech made me want to scream. He's misguided. He meant well. He cares. WTF! And this is someone who knows what Malcolm did to Thea and Sara???

 

TEAM FELICITY

Right! He's a psychopath mass murderer, but he sure cares for his child (when he doesn't abuse her) so it's okay! WTF?? Has the Once Upon A Time writing team taken over Arrow???

[Autumn]

Oliver knows now that the only way to learn to think like Ra's is to learn from one of his students..Malcolm.  He also knew it would cost him the thing that he treasures most...Felicity.   

[Angel12d]

What are Olicity fans supposed to rage at? I wasn't raging. At all.

 

I thought it was a good scene with Oliver and Felicity. They both seemed strung out. Oliver was wary and Felicity was so confused. And I loved Felicity laying it down for Oliver. I thought we would get rage based on what MG was saying, but I think it was disappointment and hurt. The scene just needed more time. 

 

I understand aligning with someone to take down a bigger evil, but at this point Malcolm is the bigger bad. 

 

Once again proves MG doesn't know his audience. I'm not raging at all. I understand both sides but I'm glad Felicity didn't back down. There is seriously no redeeming Malcolm at this point. I love Barrowman but dude has got to go. 

[Starfish35]

I understand aligning with someone to take down a bigger evil, but at this point Malcolm is the bigger bad.

Well, yes. This. I get the feeling we're supposed to be thinking of Ra's as the bigger evil, but to me it seems like Ra's has the higher moral ground than Malcolm at this point. Not that he's a good guy, not saying that. He's killed people. A lot of people. But Malcolm is the one who caused this whole entire mess in the first place, so I'm not sure why we're supposed to consider him the lesser of two evils.

Sounds like this episode had a raging case of Plot Induced Stupidity.

Right! He's a psychopath mass murderer, but he sure cares for his child (when he doesn't abuse her) so it's okay! WTF?? Has the Once Upon A Time writing team taken over Arrow???

hahaha oh ouch. But truth hurts. :)

Wow, I can't believe they are going there.  We are really doing a Malcolm Merlyn Redemption Tour?  Really?!  I mean, I can give Thea a pass since who knows what those drugs have done to her brain, but Roy being all "He truly loves this city!" makes me feel like I'm suppose to be agreeing with them.  So, I guess Sara, Tommy, and the rest of the victims of his little bomb can just fuck off, huh?  Malcolm isn't that bad!  Fuck off, show.

10000% agreed. I can't believe they're really going there.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Starfish35

[blixie]

 

but at this point Malcolm is the bigger bad.

 

Yeah I don't think he is, but to each their own. I think Ra's has killed at least as many people as Malcolm if not more, he made Sara 'loser her soul" if not her life. It doesn't mean Oliver is any less an idiot for opting to go this way, there is no good justifiable character reason for this to be happening, but BIG PICTURE moral stuff, i could GAF if he uses one mass murdering asshole to take out another. I just hope he does it with some long term plan in mind, which we do not know because they gave the plot point the least amount of time they cold to get to the beat they wanted: Felicity rejecting him.

[Chaser]

Why doesn't Oliver just hand Malcolm over to Ra's? Malcolm killed Sara. Thea was just the (drugged) weapon Malcolm used. Ra's is already after Malcolm and with Ra's code of honor…?

 

What am I missing? Am I stupid?

[Delphi]

Ra's wouldn't care that Thea was just a weapon, she'd be just as guilty in his eyes.

[El Seed]

Right! He's a psychopath mass murderer, but he sure cares for his child (when he doesn't abuse her) so it's okay! WTF?? Has the Once Upon A Time writing team taken over Arrow???

 

Damn, that burn's going to leave a mark. Malcolm and Regina: two characters who never should have been given redemption plots, especially when it's these writers handling them.

[SmallScreenDiva]

WARNING: This is going to be pretty much a Felicity Smoak appreciation post.

 

Many of the tweets I saw last night had something like "Felicity is the queen," and I totally agree. Emily Bett, once again, owned her scenes tonight — from Felicity calling out Laurel and Roy's stupid ideas to her death glare at Malcolm Merlyn and that last scene with Stephen. Damn, I really didn't think the show was going to pull off that awkward line about "the woman you love," but it totally made sense in that context and in the way it was delivered.

 

OK, let's go with the bad first:

 

John Diggle staying with Felicity in the lair while the hero wannabes were getting pummeled. John Diggle, special forces veteran. John Diggle, who is the best fighter in the group. *facepalm*

 

Laurel and Roy not really understanding that being a hero means doing the right thing all the time, not only when it's convenient. But why am I surprised? I mean, we're talking about the "hero" who got her old job through blackmail, who's been lying to her father for months, etc.

 

Malcolm Merlyn's "forced redemption" — thanks ban1o

 

Malcolm's wig — the '90s called, it wants its hair back.

 

The good:

 

Mini Oliver and mini Tommy (awwww)

 

Oliver's speech gave me chills. Maybe it's just seeing the Arrow back in Starling City again, but man, I was so, so very happy.

 

 

Felicity — She was Felicity again tonight (except for that weird thing with the cameras; I'm just going to handwave that. That's both on her and Diggle, isn't he supposed to handle security? Should have swept for bugs as soon as Malcolm left the last time) ... I loved how she stayed in her seat (like a queen on a throne) when Malcolm showed up at the lair again. She's not gonna afford Merlyn any respect and yeah, if looks could kill. I also love that Merlyn was mostly talking to her in that scene — shows you who he considers the leader of that group.

 

 

That last scene. "I need air" has definitely become code for Felicity is mad as hell. I loved it. I cried for Felicity, for Oliver, for both of them. That was a tacit admission of her feelings for Oliver right there when she talked about fantasizing how it would be when he finally returned. And even though she seemed to have accepted his death in "Left Behind," I think what she said showed that there was a tiny part of her that kept the faith.

 

We on this board have talked about how the show has tied Oliver's humanity to Felicity, and the writers are emphasized that tonight. Oliver is willing to join forces with Merlyn, despite all the horrible things he's done. Felicity knows, has always known there is another way. What that way is, who knows? But I think she and Oliver will figure it out in time for the finale :P So, no, Guggenheim is not going to get rage from me tonight. He might actually get thanks because this is character conflict I can get behind.

[Shanna]

Didn't eight of Roy's friends die in what Malcolm did to the Glades? Guy's either got a short memory, or Malcolm's been feeding him some of those herbs.

I totally forgot about that. I think the show did too.

How many speeches were there in this episode? Seven? Eight? There were A LOT of speeches. Usually they limit the speechifying to Malcolm, but this time they went nuts there with everyone.

Maybe Malcolm is drugging everyone into giving speeches.

Lol. I kept worrying about Oliver's stitches or whatever when he jumped up on the van. I also wondered how he got into his pants. Which btw, did he swing by the arrow office to pick that up or did have an extra with him or what. And was felicity in the van during the big fight? Was Diggle not there either?

Oh!! One little thing that bugged me. Roy offers laurel sutures and says her wound will scar otherwise and she turns him down, saying something about adding to her other scars. Um, was there a reason she wouldn't just let Roy treat her properly????

[statsgirl]

Here's what Felicity says to Oliver:  "Before you left, the last thing you said to me was that you love me.  Now you're back, and the first thing you tell me is that you're working with the man who turned your sister, a woman you're supposed to love, into a killer who killed a woman you used to love.  I don't want to be a woman that you love."  Follow all that?!

Did anyone mention that Malcolm also killed Oliver's father and tried to kill Oliver?

 

Why doesn't Oliver just hand Malcolm over to Ra's? Malcolm killed Sara. Thea was just the (drugged) weapon Malcolm used. Ra's is already after Malcolm and with Ra's code of honor…?

 

What am I missing? Am I stupid?

No. This is the worst plot contrivance ever on this show, and that's saying a lot.

 

I've been saying for a while that Oliver should hand over Malcolm on the condition that Ra's lets Thea go.  How can he trust his sister, blinkers fully over her eyes, in Malcolm's care?

 

 

Oliver's stupid and when/if he loses Felicity to Ray. It'll be nobody's fault other than his own.

I think that's the point of this arc, Oliver loves Felicity but he makes stupid decisions and loves her to the guy who doesn't.  They'll never miss an opportunity to cause Oliver more pain.

 

I haven't had a chance to see it  yet so thank you to everyone who summarized it for me.

 

Question about the student surpassing the master:  If Malcolm can fight so well that Oliver is going to learn from him, why wasn't he the one challenging Ra's to a duel?

 

I don't think they're going to redeem Malcolm (a caveat that I haven't seen the episode yet). I think Team Arrow will work with him and then he will turn on them and be the season's Big Bad.  Or maybe I'm thinking too much about the fable of the scorpion and the frog. (I wish Felicity had said that.)  But MG did say that Felicity was the moral centre of the Team so maybe she will be right in the end.

[bluebonnet]

On the one hand, I'm annoyed that Diggle keeps staying behind  in the lair.  On the other hand, his training makes him the best strategist for the team, and that's a job that's often best when having a bird's eye view.  

[apinknightmare]

Question about the student surpassing the master:  If Malcolm can fight so well that Oliver is going to learn from him, why wasn't he the one challenging Ra's to a duel?

 

Probably because he'd rather not die

 

 

I don't think they're going to redeem Malcolm (a caveat that I haven't seen the episode yet). I think Team Arrow will work with him and then he will turn on them and be the season's Big Bad.  Or maybe I'm thinking too much about the fable of the scorpion and the frog. (I wish Felicity had said that.)  But MG did say that Felicity was the moral centre of the Team so maybe she will be right in the end.

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after you watch it. They went a really long way toward redeeming him if they're not trying to redeem him. It could all be so Oliver wouldn't look like such a dumbass for agreeing to work with him and all will be forgotten a few eps down the line, but...IDK.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also, can we stop sidelining Diggle? In what universe should the trained special ops soldier be left behind in the foundry while Laurel and Roy go out to handle things? GTFO with that bullshit.

SAVE DIGGLE 2k15.

 

How many times have we seen Diggle out wearing the Hood ?  Why was he sitting back in the ArrowLair while Arsenal (are they just making up names now ?  Thanks for that Quentin) and Faux Black Canary kept getting their asses handed to them ?

 

I thought SA did a very nice job of making Oliver just seem weary. He moved differently, held himself stiffly. I like seeing the lingering effects of his injuries.

 

Well, he did "fall off a mountain", he might be a little stiff and sore in a couple of places. </snark>

Edited February 5, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Pothunter]

All this talk of Malcolm drugging everyone into seeing him as a redeemable guy, and a saviour to boot, reminds me of a character in The Pinhoe Egg by Diana Wynne Jones. The old lady worked a spell to make sure that her family would a) turn a blind eye to certain goings-on and b) disbelieve anyone who accused the old lady of being the instigator of the mischief.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Pothunter

[AyChihuahua]

 

Did anyone mention that Malcolm also killed Oliver's father and tried to kill Oliver?

A bunch of times, including pretty early on when Oliver was under house arrest under suspicion for being the Hood.  He sent an assassin dressed as a waiter.  So he's tried to kill Oliver like six times now.