S05.E12: Drama Queens

[CatMomma]

That's analagous to Brandi saying that her black friends weren't offended by her so-called jokes about swimming, so what's the big deal?

 

Exactly.  There are people in all marginalized groups that don't find certain things offensive. That doesn't mean that others in the same group don't find it offensive. Kyle was talking about her friends, and a lot of times friends are willing to forgive what the group as a whole find insulting.  I know it sounds like "PC crap" to call people on it, but I tend to go with what a marginalized group tells me they find offensive, not if I find it offensive or not. (I do. Insert any other minority or marginalized group after the word "my". Not good)

 

The fact is, many in the LGBT community find it offensive, so don't say it. It's not "PC" to change your behavior or words, it's being sensitive to people's feelings. 

[Avaleigh]

Well, technically, Brandi did accept Kyle's apology.  She should have gone on to apologize as well, but then, I don't think Kyle should have apologized in the first place.  She didn't mean it, so I can only assume she did it because she either expected an apology from Brandi or wanted a fight. 

 

I really wish Kyle had just opted to ignore Brandi, which is what she seemed to do in the beginning.  As the party went on, she worked herself up into a lather, which is why her apology seemed aggressive rather than sincere.

 

I am on Kyle's side for the most part. Kim and Brandi are both awful people.  But Kyle started that fight, which frustrates me to no end because I believe Kyle was in the right.  I just wish she hadn't lost her cool and opted to ignore both of them.  Instead, she brought herself down to their level.

 

Ugh, of the three, I am most pissed off at Kyle because she is making me defend Brandi and Kim.  Fuck you, Kyle.

Fair enough, you're right. To me though even when she was saying "I accept your apology" it sounded like she had attitude so it didn't really sound sincere. I realize that she was responding to Kyle's insincerity but given the way Brandi gives her own half assed non-apologies I figured she could just roll with it and make a half assed apology of her own in return. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by Avaleigh

[LotusFlower]

Exactly.  There are people in all marginalized groups that don't find certain things offensive. That doesn't mean that others in the same group don't find it offensive. Kyle was talking about her friends, and a lot of times friends are willing to forgive what the group as a whole find insulting.  I know it sounds like "PC crap" to call people on it, but I tend to go with what a marginalized group tells me they find offensive, not if I find it offensive or not. (I do. Insert any other minority or marginalized group after the word "my". Not good)

 

The fact is, many in the LGBT community find it offensive, so don't say it. It's not "PC" to change your behavior or words, it's being sensitive to people's feelings.

I agree with your whole post, but I also wanted to add that we really don't even know whether or not Kyle's friends were offended or not. Maybe they were offended, but didn't say anything because of the dynamics of their friendship with Kyle. Or maybe because they wanted to be on tv.... You never know.

[Drogo]

I rolled my eyes at AC's outrage a little too. He loves to perpetuate the fabulous urban gay man persona as much as anyone and has let this "My Gay" bullshit slide in one form or another for years. HOWEVER, it was really bad. I mean really, really bad. Worse than other instances.

"My gays" he finds offensive - but not Brandi's child molester comments and black jokes. Andy can suck it.

[ryebread]

Since when are puppies offensive?  

 

They're not. I looove puppies.  But I can own a dog. I can't own a person.

 

There are people in all marginalized groups that don't find certain things offensive. That doesn't mean that others in the same group don't find it offensive.

 

LOL. Agreed.  I started to tell this story yesterday in the Kyle thread in reference to the casual use of the word 'fucking'.  But it's pertinent here, too.  Once a group of young black men were sitting behind me and my son at a basketball game. They all thought it was cool to call each other and the players on the court, "N*gga" and  "Fucking n*gga(s)"  They clearly believed they weren't being offensive but I can assure you that the vast, VAST, VAST majority of the predominantly black spectators around them did.  They were booted and booed all the way up the stairs and out of our sight.

 

I'll stop now.

Edited February 6, 2015 by ryebread

[rho]

Blanket immunity?  She was around people who didn't seem offended by it so why would she think to censor herself?  Again, Kyle was doing something nice for people.  She was throwing a party, not discussing world politics.  And gimme a break with the condescending tone.  The two men greeting people were gleefully handing out celebrity names to people like they were in 6th grade.  I swear to God, only this show would have people offended over someone using a tone of voice like they were discussing puppies.  Since when are puppies offensive?  Kyle was enjoying herself (Until Brandi showed up, that is) as was everyone else at the mixer so why try to pin this sinister persona on either her or Lisa R?  Again, two women who have never used a slur against anyone.

 

And the reason people are comparing it to Brandi is because THAT is something to get outraged about.  A woman who said something horrifically racist in front of the person who's race she was offending and continued to say it even after she was told it was offensive.  Getting outraged about Kyle using the term "my gays"?  Andy needs to examine his priorities.  Where was his outrage when Brandi was throwing racial slurs?  I guess because he's not Puerto Rican he wasn't as offended?

 

My point exactly. If you're gonna get mad at Kyle, you have to get mad at the dozens of gay men who did nothing to stop her. And Andy is just saving face in front of Lance Bass. He's had Kathy Griffin on WWHL dozens of times talking about 'her gays' and never said a thing.  But at least he finally did say something and hopefully others take the hint, not just Kyle.

 

Really, it's just a testament that this was the most boring episode in the history of BH. Even with the half-assed Kyle/Brandi standoff, the biggest controversy was that Kyle thinks gay men are pets.

[zoeysmom]

I agree with your whole post, but I also wanted to add that we really don't even know whether or not Kyle's friends were offended or not. Maybe they were offended, but didn't say anything because of the dynamics of their friendship with Kyle. Or maybe because they wanted to be on tv.... You never know.

Obviously she wasn't try offend or belittle she was throwing a gay mixer.  Now that Kyle and the rest of America has been made aware of the obvious they won't have to revisit the topic, except at every Reunion and every time any Bravolebrity has ever uttered the phrase and a full on special for Kathy Griffin when she comes on.

 

I do think the men who signed up to go enjoyed the prospect of being filmed.  Just like the mactors at SUR and PUMP it is good exposure.  

 

I think after Andy called Brandi a bully all the cast of RH is going to be getting the same treatment Kyle got from Andy Tuesday night.  He seems to gunning for her. Andy doesn't like looking bad in the media.  Kyle said she didn't like the polls that asked, "who was the prettiest", "who is the best mom" questions as opposed to who do you think is right or whose side are you on type questions. It is interesting  about the who is the prettiest because Kyle won that one the first season.

They're not. I looove puppies.  But I can own a dog. I can't own a person.

 

 

LOL. Agreed.  I started to tell this story yesterday in the Kyle thread in reference to the casual use of the word 'fucking'.  But it's pertinent here, too.  Once a group of young black men were sitting behind me and my son at a basketball game. They all thought it was cool to call each other and the players on the court, "N*gga" and  "Fucking n*gga(s)"  They clearly believed they weren't being offensive but I can assure you that the vast, VAST, VAST majority of the predominantly black spectators around them did.  They were booted and booed all the way up the stairs and out of our sight.

 

I'll stop now.

Have you ever said my friend or my husband or my mother or my employees?  I get it was wrong of Kyle and I have said before it reminds me of "my peeps" but I do not think it was done with malice.

Edited February 6, 2015 by zoeysmom

[LotusFlower]

"My gays" he finds offensive - but not Brandi's child molester comments and black jokes. Andy can suck it.

Is Andy the PC police? Real Housewives are reality shows, and there are a lot of ignorant or racist or homophobic or just plain idiotic people in the world, and sometimes that seeps into the shows. Is he supposed to scrub them all clean? Is he supposed to call each and every transgression out? He's gay, so he's sensitive to homophobia and sometimes calls that shit out. He's also jewish, and I heard him once address something anti-Semitic that Patty Stranger once said. How is that odd? As host of the HW reunions and WWHL, he often addresses controversial or incendiary comments, ie. a recent show when he asked Claudia Jordan about being called a half breed. He let her speak to it because she has more authority on it. I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do, unless people feel that it's his job and/or responsibility to address all moral transgressions.

[ryebread]

Obviously she wasn't try offend or belittle she was throwing a gay mixer. 

 

Clearly she wasn't trying to offend or belittle.  Because she was trying so hard to win over some more gays for her collection.  Don't you think she was just a little over zealous in that first scene?  Even a little?  Omg.  I couldn't stop saying "oh my god, oh my god." 

 

Now that Kyle and the rest of America has been made aware of the obvious they won't have to revisit the topic, except at every Reunion and every time any Bravolebrity has ever uttered the phrase and a full on special for Kathy Griffin when she comes on.

 

Personally that doesn't bother me.  I think it's a good thing if people are talking about it.  Andy should have addressed it a long time ago.

[zoeysmom]

Clearly she wasn't trying to offend or belittle.  Because she was trying so hard to win over some more gays for her collection.  Don't you think she was just a little over zealous in that first scene?  Even a little?  Omg.  I couldn't stop saying "oh my god, oh my god." 

 

 

Personally that doesn't bother me.  I think it's a good thing if people are talking about it.  Andy should have addressed it a long time ago.

I didn't realize she was that much of a matchmaker.  Absolutely they all tend to take things too far. I did think the guess who I am was cute.

[SwordQueen]

I'm completely confused.

 

When did having some tact and decorum become "pearl clutching" behavior?

 

Did I sleep through this transition and am blissfully unaware?

 

I hold myself with dignity and class in public places.  Not because I can't be a supreme jackass myself but it's just good manners, IMO, to behave in a civilized manner whenever and wherever possible.  

 

Are all of those chucklefucks around me considering me to be clutching my nonexistent pearls because I don't care to humiliate myself?

 

I'm failing to see why suddenly anyone who doesn't choose to root in the trough is labeled as "pearl clutching."

 

Eileen has done nothing to make me feel she is a "pearl clutcher."

 

THANK YOU!  lol 

 

Sorry, for my high pitched squeal, there, but, I agree. 

 

Brandi conflates too many behaviors and aspects of herself and tries to pass them off as being equal, so either you accept ALL of them or you're a prude or a square or a pearl clutcher. 

 

I'm NOT offended by Brandi:

Being a single mother over 40, or 

Her (lack of) clothes, or

Her hooker heels, or

Her sexuality, or

Her love of hooch, or

Her love of curse words. 

 

What I AM offended by is:

Her complete inability to censor herself when appropriate (like ALL adults must do),

Her entitlement issues with regards to being *owed* this or that (like apologies and friendship and trust),

Her propensity for making personal jabs at others' families and marriages,

Her habit of talking about other people's private lives/secrets without their permission, and

Her bigoted slurs that she excuses by saying that they are approved by the very demographic she's using the slurs against. 

Her habit of lying (poorly) and her stupidity in thinking that people aren't going to see through them.

...I could go on.

 

 

She really needs to shut it with her indignant act with regards to other people's reactions to her behavior.  I am also single, wear as much or probably even less clothes than she does regularly, love my hooker heels, love curse words and booze, and am very sexually open, but I still find her to be crass, entitled, ignorant, malicious, a coward, a lush and a poor excuse for a friend.

 

The word chucklefucks makes me smile every time I see it.    

[VanillaBeanne]

I think Andy is still an executive producer of RH. According to the article quoted above, he left his Bravo network role to focus on WWHL and RH and any new projects he develops. I will give his indignation over Kyle and Lisa's "my gays" a pass if he no longer tolerates or ignores other homophobic comments from other Howives or husbands.

Not to psychoanalyze the guy but I wonder if he was giving to Kyle the lecture he never had the courage to give Nene. Would have loved him to have given that type of "read" to Nene when she was calling a straight man a queen as an insult, which was offensive no matter what way you sliced it.

Edited February 6, 2015 by VanillaBeanne

[motorcitymom65]

Clearly she wasn't trying to offend or belittle. Because she was trying so hard to win over some more gays for her collection. Don't you think she was just a little over zealous in that first scene? Even a little? Omg. I couldn't stop saying "oh my god, oh my god."

Personally that doesn't bother me. I think it's a good thing if people are talking about it. Andy should have addressed it a long time ago.

I always like the discussion, especially on something I am not sure about. It has always bothered me when I hear someone say it, but I've never heard it debated. The first time I heard it was when we moved to Michigan and had a Super Bowl party. One of my husbands new work friends brought his Partner with him. This cool guy and I immediately hit it off when we discovered we both worked in the culinary field, and had lots of other interests in common. He happily told me that now I had a "new gay". A belly full of vodka made me believe this was the funniest thing I had ever heard. I had a Gay! I didn't even know that was a thing. In the cold reality of sobriety, it didn't seem so funny when I heard it after that, usually on some Bravo show. I always wondered why Andy didn't address it - not because he has to be the guardian of all words - but because he outed himself on TV as a gay man at the NJ reunion when he told Teresa that something Joe had said was offensive. I just figured he would have said something before now, so I thought maybe I was just being nuts. Now I know I am not. I will assume that Kyle and Lisa are as stupid as I once was, and now that they know it is offensive, they won't say it again. Edited February 6, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[SwordQueen]

I always like the discussion, especially on something I am not sure about. It has always bothered me when I hear someone say it, but I've never heard it debated. The first time I heard it was when we moved to Michigan and had a Super Bowl party. One of my husbands new work friends brought his Partner with him. This cool guy and I immediately hit it off when we discovered we both worked in the culinary field, and had lots of other interests in common. He happily told me that now I had a "new gay". A belly full of vodka made me believe this was the funniest thing I had ever heard. I had a Gay! I didn't even know that was a thing. In the cold reality of sobriety, it didn't seem so funny when I heard it after that, usually on some Bravo show. I always wondered why Andy didn't address it - not because he has to be the guardian of all words - but because he outed himself on TV as a gay man at the NJ reunion when he told Teresa that something Joe had said was offensive. I just figured he would have said something before now, so I thought maybe I was just being nuts. Now I know I am not. I will assume that Kyle and Lisa are as stupid as I once was, and now that they know it is offensive, they won't say it again.

 

 

 From how often I hear that gay men introduce the whole “My gay” lingo to straight women (this is from the mouths of straight of women, so I dunno), it seems to me that many members of the gay community feel they need to portray themselves a certain way in order to be accepted, and being “someone’s gay” is part of that now.  Because of the radical right’s fearmongering of gay men, initiating relationships with straight people where their role is just “your friendly neighborhood gay” is a way to not be seen so negatively.  It’s a damn shame if this is the case because being "someone’s gay” kind of takes away from their individual identities, imo.  I'd have rather heard Kyle, Lisa, etc. introduce us to the friends that they were having a party for by their own names, as people, who also happen to be gay,not under the umbrella label "My gays" and then furthering that by saying "everyone has a few" like these men are dogs or purses or whatever. 

 

 

I wanted to add that I've never heard anyone I know say this nor have I ever referred to my gay male friends as "my gays", so I was just assuming it was a TV or [wanna-be] rich person/celebrity thing.  Interesting that it's more common than that. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by SwordQueen

[AuntieDiane6]

 

I will give his indignation over Kyle and Lisa's "my gays" a pass if he no longer tolerates or ignores other homophobic comments from other Howives or husbands.

 

ISN'T ANDY COHEN THE GUY WHO APPROVED THE SHOW "FASHION QUEENS"????  In other words, has no problem calling two gay men a gay offensive slur???   If Joe Giudice said that "dancing is for queens" ANDY would have been the first to complain.

 

God, what a hypocrite.  

[motorcitymom65]

THANK YOU!  lol 

 

Sorry, for my high pitched squeal, there, but, I agree. 

 

Brandi conflates too many behaviors and aspects of herself and tries to pass them off as being equal, so either you accept ALL of them or you're a prude or a square or a pearl clutcher. 

 

I'm NOT offended by Brandi:

Being a single mother over 40, or 

Her (lack of) clothes, or

Her hooker heels, or

Her sexuality, or

Her love of hooch, or

Her love of curse words. 

 

What I AM offended by is:

Her complete inability to censor herself when appropriate (like ALL adults must do),

Her entitlement issues with regards to being *owed* this or that (like apologies and friendship and trust),

Her propensity for making personal jabs at others' families and marriages,

Her habit of talking about other people's private lives/secrets without their permission, and

Her bigoted slurs that she excuses by saying that they are approved by the very demographic she's using the slurs against. 

Her habit of lying (poorly) and her stupidity in thinking that people aren't going to see through them.

...I could go on.

 

 

She really needs to shut it with her indignant act with regards to other people's reactions to her behavior.  I am also single, wear as much or probably even less clothes than she does regularly, love my hooker heels, love curse words and booze, and am very sexually open, but I still find her to be crass, entitled, ignorant, malicious, a coward, a lush and a poor excuse for a friend.

 

The word chucklefucks makes me smile every time I see it.

I think I love you.

Best. Post. Ever.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Brandi really is not very smart, is she? She has alienated every single housewife on the show except Kim and we know that is a temporary relationship. Yo is not there yet, however, judging from next week episode she is on the way. Who the hell does Brandi think she is going to film with next season? She has practically backed herself right out of a job. Moron.

I think she's trying to recapture the popularity she enjoyed in her first season when everyone was mean to her because she had less income and refused to suffer fools and mean girls. Except then she made her fortune (ish) by being the number one fool and mean girl. I don't think it's going to go like she thinks it's going to go. I want to drag her by the ear to a kindergarten class when they learn about how actions have consequences. We can maybe talk about impulse control when she's 45.

In regards to Andy's feelings on the casual use of 'my gays' in conversation...I am curious about this since he is BFFs with Anderson Cooper who is Kathy Griffin's highest profile gay. KG says "my straights" now in her routines, so I'm wondering if the my gay thing just got co-opted and went out of control? No idea. I don't mean to imply friends can't have differing opinions, just saying I'd love to be a fly on the wall for the exchange between Kathy, Anderson, and Andy if such an exchange exists.

Edited February 6, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[renatae]

Really Lisa? You were not even a tiny bit prepared for the fact that Max might one day ask about his past, where he came from? And she wouldn't even tell him his born last name! How is that going to hurt. Look, I have never experienced any side of an adoption. I cannot even imagine what people go through to give up their child, or the worries that might come with raising an adopted child.

 

 

 

This seems unnecessarily harsh. From the time we are children, we have reason to believe our parents will predecease us. Does that make it any easier when they do? I'm sure she knew the question would arise at one time or another, but when it does, it opens up a whole can of worries about how the child may have to deal with rejection by the birth parents, or yes, that the child might prefer the birth parents. People on all sides of adoption are insecure. I don't see why Lisa should come under attack for her feelings.

[hottesthw]

Good god, yes, it's disgusting. I agree with the OP. The LGBT community is fighting a war right now. They deserve equal civil rights. They're no different than anyone else. Just like the blacks weren't when they were fighting for their rights. But to say: "My gays" or "everyone in town has four or five gays of their own" (ugh) is disgusting. Saying they are 'yours' or insinuating that they are owned is making them different from you. And they aren't.

Alex said it best: Kyle "lured a dozen gay men to a taping of The Real Housewives with free booze. Congrats." I doubt Kyle has many, if any, gay friends. If she does, and it doesn't bother them that she believes they are lesser than her, shame on them. (And someone did point out to her that it was offensive and she issued a non-apology.)

Do I think Kyle or Lisa or anyone who is so derogatory toward gays is evil? No, not all. Just ignorant.

Well someone needs to inform the BH gays that they should be offended. Because I have a gut feeling that it was probably "a gay" who told one of the HW "Ohhh take me to the party, I'll be your gay". They just all seemed a bit too happy and on board for me to believe this was such a crime against humanity in their eyes. I'm not saying at all that it's right (and can't believe I even typed the sentences above). I'm saying I personally don't believe the "blame" for this ridiculous trend lies at the feet of all heterosexuals.

[ryebread]

I'm saying I personally don't believe the "blame" for this ridiculous trend lies at the feet of all heterosexuals.

 

It doesn't.  But they need to stop being so irresponsible.  Because when they label someone, "my gay" or they say that "everyone has 4 or 5 gays of their own", for me it becomes about that person feeling superior over a minority.  I just can't get on board with that. 

[izabella]

Ya, Brandi spin at it's best. That scene was Kyle getting Kim to say what the 'official' word would be on the hospital stay.  There is no way Kyle didn't know why her sister was there and this was her way of letting Kim set the reason. I'm sure Brandi knows this but it doesn't fit into the 'horrible sister' tag she has for Kyle.

 

Yes, that's exactly what they did after Kim's behavior in Paris.  Kim and Kyle had a carefully staged scene in Kyle's store where Kim tells the tale of mixing up her pills, and that's why she was acting so loopy.  That was taped after they returned from the Paris trip, and was set up solely for Kim to tell us the story she wanted us to buy.

[WireWrap]

It doesn't.  But they need to stop being so irresponsible.  Because when they label someone, "my gay" or they say that "everyone has 4 or 5 gays of their own", for me it becomes about that person feeling superior over a minority.  I just can't get on board with that. 

I don't get the feeling that Kyle, Lisa R or any of the HWs, except Nene, mean it that way at all. IMO, just mine, it comes across as if they are trying too hard to show how open/accepting" they are of other lifestyles. Not that they are trying to showcase their gay friends like a pet or that they are "collecting" them to see who has the most gay friends. Is it tacky to say it that way, "my gays", of course it is but unless someone told them otherwise, how would they know it is offensive? Now that it has been pointed out to them they can make the necessary changes but we will not see that on this show this season as it is already filmed.

Edited February 6, 2015 by WireWrap

[BluishGreen]

This seems unnecessarily harsh. From the time we are children, we have reason to believe our parents will predecease us. Does that make it any easier when they do? I'm sure she knew the question would arise at one time or another, but when it does, it opens up a whole can of worries about how the child may have to deal with rejection by the birth parents, or yes, that the child might prefer the birth parents. People on all sides of adoption are insecure. I don't see why Lisa should come under attack for her feelings.

 

I have no specific experience in this area, although a few members of my family have adopted and are adopted, but it seems like this is much ado about nothing.  From what I understand, Max never said he wants to find his birth parents--all he said was that he wanted to find out his ethnic heritage-- like, am I Swedish?  Am I German? (just using these examples based on his blondness).  He asked Lisa for information (his birth name) for the purpose of entering it on the DNA site. Maybe he had an ulterior motive in asking--if his name turned out to be Patrick O'Reilly, that might give him a hint as to his ethnic background, no?  But, still, why even hesitate to answer a direct question from a 22 year old man?

 

Again, with my limited knowledge, I though adoptive parents are encouraged to have an open and welcoming attitude when it comes to their children's (appropriate) questions-- if you stall or prevaricate (which, let's face it, is Lisa V's go-to response), you make the child feel there is something wrong or shameful about their adoption or their desire for information.  And like I said, if he isn't trying to find his birth parents, but only information about his own ethnicity, why all the drama about his "journey"?  Sorry, dumb question....

 

Now, there seems to be some idea floating around that Lisa could get sued it the birth parents' name is revealed.  I am always happy to be educated, but why would that be true?  According to the story Lisa tells, Max was in foster care, which means either his parents voluntarily gave up their parental rights to the State,  or had their rights terminated in a court proceeding, and then Lisa adopted Max from the State, which would have been granted temporary custody of Max-- essentially, the State was his "parent"- until he could be adopted. The State may have a statutory obligation to maintain the birth parents' confidentiality, but how on earth could this obligation be imposed on Lisa?  The court filings I have seen in this context don't use the real names of the child or the birth parents, so how would Lisa even have the birth parents' information in the first place? Not talking about respecting the birth parents' privacy, which is a great thing if that was her purpose, but a legal obligation to protect information she wouldn't even have?  Doesn't make sense,  unless Lisa has some agreement with the birth parents.  I have a strong suspicion that this foster care story may not be entirely true and Max came to them through a privately arranged adoption. So, why the "I rescued Max from foster care" story? Yeah. Another dumb question....

[SwordQueen]

I don't get the feeling that Kyle, Lisa R or any of the HWs, except Nene, mean it that way at all. IMO, just mine, it comes across as if they are trying too hard to show how open/accepting" they are of other lifestyles. Not that they are trying to showcase their gay friends like a pet or that they are "collecting" them to see who has the most gay friends. Is it tacky to say it that way, "my gays", of course it is but unless someone told them otherwise, how would they know it is offensive? Now that it has been pointed out to them they can make the necessary changes but we will not see that on this show this season as it is already filmed.

 

To me, it feels like a common sense thing, like I wouldn’t feel comfortable using that lingo in front of others who aren’t “in” on the joke.  If friends of mine ever told me that they are my “token black friends”, for instance, I’d not want to actually refer to them that way, and well, being my friends, who have just as twisted a sense of humor as I do, I’d know they were just joking around with me and mocking the use of that term, since we do that often.  My friends and I have called each other by offensive pet names, forever, but I wouldn’t ever think of going on television or anywhere else and say something like “My token black friend #2 and I are going to a party tonight.”  It’s just weird.  lol   So if “Kyle’s gays” want her to refer to them as that, then whatever, that’s up to them, but Kyle is an idiot to think that she should go on national television and use those terms, especially in such a giddy, aren’t I cute/hip/evolved kind of way because not everyone finds it endearing and it might inspire other women to do the same to any and all gay men they befriend, which also isn't cute.  It also gives the impression that gay men, in general, love to be referred to in that manner, when that's not true, so it's just perpetuating more stereotypes.  But IMO and YMMV and all that lovely stuff.  ; ) 

[DebbieM4]

Ohhh, that reminds me.

 

I found this little excerpt from Kyle's blog curious.

 

 

"With cameras."

 

Me thinks Kyle was trying to sober up a clearly fucked up Kim because she was afraid of what Kim might blather on about in that ride, what skeletons her intoxicated state might cause to leak from her lips.  .

 

I didn't think there was a single thing wrong with that excerpt until those last two words..."with cameras."  

 

Kyle should have stopped the sentence with "before she left in a car."

 

I'm totally on Kyle's side in this shitstorm, but those last two words speak volumes to me.  

 

I took that to mean that she didn't want Kim to be filmed in the completely non-forgiving confines of a car in her obviously altered state.  I think Kyle was hoping to get Kim to come down at least a bit before she got in a car where there would be a camera right up close to her and pretty much nothing to distract from the fact that she was impaired from pills, alcohol, or whatever.  And I'm sure that for her own peace of mind she would have preferred that Kim didn't head out on her own (or with Brandi) while she was so out of it.

 

Kyle was the one whispering in the bathroom, clearly trying not to be heard, so I think that's where her head was at the time - trying to find out what was going on, and keeping it all away from the cameras as much as she could.  

I guess I'm just not in agreement with those who think Kyle walks around in constant fear of her secrets being revealed.  I don't get that vibe from her at all.  For all the mistakes she's made, I do think she is desperately worried about Kim a great deal of the time.  And with good reason.

[WireWrap]

I have no specific experience in this area, although a few members of my family have adopted and are adopted, but it seems like this is much ado about nothing.  From what I understand, Max never said he wants to find his birth parents--all he said was that he wanted to find out his ethnic heritage-- like, am I Swedish?  Am I German? (just using these examples based on his blondness).  He asked Lisa for information (his birth name) for the purpose of entering it on the DNA site. Maybe he had an ulterior motive in asking--if his name turned out to be Patrick O'Reilly, that might give him a hint as to his ethnic background, no?  But, still, why even hesitate to answer a direct question from a 22 year old man?

 

Again, with my limited knowledge, I though adoptive parents are encouraged to have an open and welcoming attitude when it comes to their children's (appropriate) questions-- if you stall or prevaricate (which, let's face it, is Lisa V's go-to response), you make the child feel there is something wrong or shameful about their adoption or their desire for information.  And like I said, if he isn't trying to find his birth parents, but only information about his own ethnicity, why all the drama about his "journey"?  Sorry, dumb question....

 

Now, there seems to be some idea floating around that Lisa could get sued it the birth parents' name is revealed.  I am always happy to be educated, but why would that be true?  According to the story Lisa tells, Max was in foster care, which means either his parents voluntarily gave up their parental rights to the State,  or had their rights terminated in a court proceeding, and then Lisa adopted Max from the State, which would have been granted temporary custody of Max-- essentially, the State was his "parent"- until he could be adopted. The State may have a statutory obligation to maintain the birth parents' confidentiality, but how on earth could this obligation be imposed on Lisa?  The court filings I have seen in this context don't use the real names of the child or the birth parents, so how would Lisa even have the birth parents' information in the first place? Not talking about respecting the birth parents' privacy, which is a great thing if that was her purpose, but a legal obligation to protect information she wouldn't even have?  Doesn't make sense,  unless Lisa has some agreement with the birth parents.  I have a strong suspicion that this foster care story may not be entirely true and Max came to them through a privately arranged adoption. So, why the "I rescued Max from foster care" story? Yeah. Another dumb question....

Birth parents have a right to their privacy and many do not want it know that they had a child and gave them up for adoption, it is their right. It is not Lisa's right to reveal that information on a TV show unless she has their permission and Bravo would require a written/signed release.

 

There are ways to learn a biological parents name but if that parent requested a closed adoption, then the adoption agency is prohibited from revealing that name to anyone, even if that child was in foster care when he was adopted. Not all foster care children are taken from their parents, sometimes the parent surrenders them for personal reasons such as health issues and no family willing to step in to help. We do not know the details of any of this and I doubt we ever will, which is as it should be.

 

Having a DNA test to learn your "ethnic heritage" does not require a birth parents name, just a DNA sample. Lisa asked Max if he wanted to know/meet his birth parents, I think that is why they were talking about his birth name. IMO, the scene was edited badly for added drama by the producers. 

[breezy424]

If Lisa was afraid of being sued or of any other problems with Max's birth parents, why is she allowing this to be filmed?  If Lisa doesn't want to tell Max his birth surname, why is she allowing this to be filmed?  If Lisa is so upset about Max questioning any of this, why is she allowing it to be filmed?  The bottom line IMO this story is being 'portrayed' for the cameras.  I wonder how far they will take it.

 

Besides, if Max was born in England, at age eighteen, he legally is allowed to see his original birth certificate.    I know it was mentioned that some people though Lisa stated he was born in Wisconsin and that may be true.  The Todd's were living in California sometime in the 90's and then moved back to England.  Max was born about 1991.

[WireWrap]

To me, it feels like a common sense thing, like I wouldn’t feel comfortable using that lingo in front of others who aren’t “in” on the joke.  If friends of mine ever told me that they are my “token black friends”, for instance, I’d not want to actually refer to them that way, and well, being my friends, who have just as twisted a sense of humor as I do, I’d know they were just joking around with me and mocking the use of that term, since we do that often.  My friends and I have called each other by offensive pet names, forever, but I wouldn’t ever think of going on television or anywhere else and say something like “My token black friend #2 and I are going to a party tonight.”  It’s just weird.  lol   So if “Kyle’s gays” want her to refer to them as that, then whatever, that’s up to them, but Kyle is an idiot to think that she should go on national television and use those terms, especially in such a giddy, aren’t I cute/hip/evolved kind of way because not everyone finds it endearing and it might inspire other women to do the same to any and all gay men they befriend, which also isn't cute.  It also gives the impression that gay men, in general, love to be referred to in that manner, when that's not true, so it's just perpetuating more stereotypes.  But IMO and YMMV and all that lovely stuff.  ; ) 

Here is the problem though, we are talking about Kyle....LOL....not the sharpest tool in the shed. She is not very savvy either IMO. LOL I don't think either Kyle or Lisa R ever thought any of this through, they just thought it was hip/current but never thought it was offensive. They have now been told it is offensive, even if they did not say it to offend anyone. It remains to be seen if they take that knowledge to heart and change their ways, lets hope so.

[WireWrap]

If Lisa was afraid of being sued or of any other problems with Max's birth parents, why is she allowing this to be filmed?  If Lisa doesn't want to tell Max his birth surname, why is she allowing this to be filmed?  If Lisa is so upset about Max questioning any of this, why is she allowing it to be filmed?  The bottom line IMO this story is being 'portrayed' for the cameras.  I wonder how far they will take it.

 

Besides, if Max was born in England, at age eighteen, he legally is allowed to see his original birth certificate.    I know it was mentioned that some people though Lisa stated he was born in Wisconsin and that may be true.  The Todd's were living in California sometime in the 90's and then moved back to England.  Max was born about 1991.

I am not sure of English privacy laws concerning adoption but here, in the US, the adoptive parents have the right to privacy no matter how long ago the adoption occurred.

 

If Max's birth parents name is not mentioned on camera it would not be a problem but if it is and they do not want it publicly know, it could result in a lawsuit, invasion of privacy. I don't think Lisa/Ken are refusing to tell Max his birth name, just not on camera.

 

Is this a storyline for Lisa this season, I am sure it is. Just like Yolanda's storyline about Bella, or Kyle's about Alexia, Kim's about the wedding and Monty, Lisa R's parents. It is a glimpse into their real lives, not the contrived producer driven drama that has dominated all the HW shows lately. It is a way we viewers get to connect with the HWs on a more personal level. With Lisa, Max has been the unknown, his choice, until now and we have heard about Pandora for years, it is now his turn.

[grittypearl]

Yes, that's exactly what they did after Kim's behavior in Paris.  Kim and Kyle had a carefully staged scene in Kyle's store where Kim tells the tale of mixing up her pills, and that's why she was acting so loopy.  That was taped after they returned from the Paris trip, and was set up solely for Kim to tell us the story she wanted us to buy.

Also if memory serves me correctly, the same trip where Brandi AKA "Demon Wolf" was all but shouting from the top of a milk crate about outing her BFF Kim's shit stain pillow that Yo was trudging around.

[SwordQueen]

Here is the problem though, we are talking about Kyle....LOL....not the sharpest tool in the shed. She is not very savvy either IMO. LOL I don't think either Kyle or Lisa R ever thought any of this through, they just thought it was hip/current but never thought it was offensive. They have now been told it is offensive, even if they did not say it to offend anyone. It remains to be seen if they take that knowledge to heart and change their ways, lets hope so.

 

Your point is on point!  We are talking about Kyle here.  lol  In fact, when I wrote that she was being an idiot, I almost added in parenthesis “nothing new there”!

 

I wish this PSA that the HWs are getting can be expanded to include other offensive/irritating behaviors.  Like, for Brandi, in particular, as I’ve posted before, just because she can do/say/wear something in certain situations (her own home, clubs, bars and with her actual friends), doesn’t mean that it’s appropriate, appreciated or even allowed everywhere else.  But apparently she hasn’t received that message yet in a way she can’t ignore.  Though I suppose that “I do what I want!” mentality goes hand in hand with being a reality TV fame whore.  The world is not your stage, ladies.

[WireWrap]

Also if memory serves me correctly, the same trip where Brandi AKA "Demon Wolf" was all but shouting from the top of a milk crate about outing her BFF Kim's shit stain pillow that Yo was trudging around.

Don't forget Brandi out'ed Kim last season when she tweeted about Kim being found passed out half naked in a hallway of their hotel in PR! But they are BFFs this season! LOL

Edited February 6, 2015 by WireWrap

[grittypearl]

Don't forget Brandi out'ed Kim last season when she tweeted about Kim being found passed out half naked in a hallway of their hotel in PR! But they are BFFs this season! LOL

Lest we forget about the half naked tweet about Kim in PR. The Wonder Twins Brandi and Kim need a one way to Betty Ford. I'm not even kidding about that.

Edited February 6, 2015 by grittypearl

[DebbieM4]

I know she probably didn't even realize she wrote it....but the part about all of Kim's injuries being very serious for a single woman over 40 made me laugh.

 

So if you're single and under 40 then you're fine.

Or if you're married and over 40....suck it up, it's not that serious.

 

I was just about to say the same thing.  She said, Kim's injuries were not only serious, but also "very painful" for a single woman over 40.  So apparently it's just Kim's dumb luck that she's single.  Because it would have been far less painful (or maybe not painful at all!)  if she had been married.

 

I didn't realize it worked that way!  Had I known, I would never have gotten divorced.

 

Seriously, Brandi is so hung up on the whole "single", "single mother" thing.  As though that label somehow entitles a woman to scads of sympathy. Her own view of herself as victim colors everything she does and says.

 

And she's also a "ride or die friend".  Yup.  Sure.  We've seen that repeatedly, haven't we?  I've never seen anyone alienate so many "friends" in such a short amount of time.

[breezy424]

I am not sure of English privacy laws concerning adoption but here, in the US, the adoptive parents have the right to privacy no matter how long ago the adoption occurred.

 

If Max's birth parents name is not mentioned on camera it would not be a problem but if it is and they do not want it publicly know, it could result in a lawsuit, invasion of privacy. I don't think Lisa/Ken are refusing to tell Max his birth name, just not on camera.

 

Is this a storyline for Lisa this season, I am sure it is. Just like Yolanda's storyline about Bella, or Kyle's about Alexia, Kim's about the wedding and Monty, Lisa R's parents. It is a glimpse into their real lives, not the contrived producer driven drama that has dominated all the HW shows lately. It is a way we viewers get to connect with the HWs on a more personal level. With Lisa, Max has been the unknown, his choice, until now and we have heard about Pandora for years, it is now his turn.

Yes, I'm well aware of adoption laws in the US.  They're different in GB.

 

The difference between Kyle and Yolanda's storyline with their children is that they were actually going away to college.  And when planning the storyboard for the season with their producers, it was a natural part of the plan.  This is very different from Lisa's story with Max.  Max well may have been very interested in finding out about his ancestry but it was well planned out (Oh, let's film it).  Seems very contrived and as I stated in my first post regarding this, 'portrayed'.   There's nothing spontaneous about Lisa's concern about Max and letting him know about his birth parents or surname.  It was planned by her and the producers before the camera crew showed up.

[Lizzing]

I've taken a few days to process this ep and the comments, but PC shit be damned, I'm gonna comment on "my gays".  If the guys at the party were okay with that term, so be it for them.  I have a gay godfather and a lesbian godmother.  I was born in the early 70s, and they have been part of my life since I was 1 day old.  I'd never, in 100 million years, reference them as "my gays".  I was pissed off at Kathy Griffin for perpetuating that term, as it is dehumanizing.  I've been lucky enough to grow up with a lot of people who love me, and some of them fall in love with partner with same gender, some of them fell in love with the other gender, and no one batted an eyelash.  It genuinely makes me sick that this is an issue in 1992.  Oh, wait, it's 2015.  The whole cast should be ashamed at marginalizing a population.  Even if the participants are just a bunch of camera ready fame whores, as they come in all sizes.

 

Andy can just STFU.  But that's for another thread.

[breezy424]

I was just about to say the same thing.  She said, Kim's injuries were not only serious, but also "very painful" for a single woman over 40.  So apparently it's just Kim's dumb luck that she's single.  Because it would have been far less painful (or maybe not painful at all!)  if she had been married.

 

I didn't realize it worked that way!  Had I known, I would never have gotten divorced.

 

Seriously, Brandi is so hung up on the whole "single", "single mother" thing.  As though that label somehow entitles a woman to scads of sympathy. Her own view of herself as victim colors everything she does and says.

 

And she's also a "ride or die friend".  Yup.  Sure.  We've seen that repeatedly, haven't we?  I've never seen anyone alienate so many "friends" in such a short amount of time.

 

Well, you know, everything is harder when you're single.  According to Yolanda, a divorce is the worst thing a mother can go through.  I guess the death of a husband  or child, serious illness of either is a breeze.  They're both clueless.

[talula]

This episode we can't help but to talk for pages about how we think this HW should be fired or that HW is OK and should come back next season. We express our feelings based on the characters we see before us each week and their blogs. I think they're being paid to do a job and even though it's a reality show they are giving us a performance. Without the cameras what might have really happened? Would LisaV's conversation with her son been different? Would Kyle and LisaR define who they'd invite to a party been exactly the same...maybe not.

Maybe we should be a little more understanding that there's a strain when trying to live your true life before a camera and wanting to look and be the best. Because no matter what...the edit could include or exclude information. That's what they signed up for.

Brandi should get the "Foot in the Mouth Award" because every other sentence we hear of hers is awful. Even Brandi has said it's tough when all the other HW can show their time with their children to soften them and show depth of personality...she can't. The woman doesn't seem to have one hobby she can share with us. It's as if she sadly has a vacant life without being able to film with her kids. Not dating anyone either...all she has is a hairstylist, a friend and Kim. :( She seems to have no joy this season.

Edited to add: Brandi appears to have burned her bridges with some of the ladies...they just don't see her as funny anymore...past fans have also reconsidered supporting her.

Edited February 6, 2015 by RealityTVSmack1

[Persnickety1]

Also if memory serves me correctly, the same trip where Brandi AKA "Demon Wolf" was all but shouting from the top of a milk crate about outing her BFF Kim's shit stain pillow that Yo was trudging around.

 

Dammit, I keep seeing this incident mentioned and I don't recall having seen it.

 

Does anyone know offhand which season (and maybe episode) this was in?

 

I'd love to find it on Hulu and watch it.

 

Was the passed out naked in a hotel hallway mentioned in an episode or just in one of Brandi's vile tweets?

 

Thanks to anyone who can help a gal out on tracking this episode down!  

[talula]

Dammit, I keep seeing this incident mentioned and I don't recall having seen it.

Does anyone know offhand which season (and maybe episode) this was in?

I'd love to find it on Hulu and watch it.

Was the passed out naked in a hotel hallway mentioned in an episode or just in one of Brandi's vile tweets?

Thanks to anyone who can help a gal out on tracking this episode down!

It came out during a reunion show...where Brandi & Yolanda were talking about events that occurred on the flight home from the Paris/Kim Pillgate debacle.

Edited February 6, 2015 by RealityTVSmack1

[Persnickety1]

It came out during a reunion show...where Brandi & Yolanda were talking about events that occurred on the flight home from the Paris/Kim Pillgate debacle.

 

Thank you SO much.  They have the reunion shows on Hulu, too, so I'm off to go find this one.

 

Ahhh, yes, that convoluted story about how Kim accidentally took an old pill that was somehow mixed in with her new pills and didn't realize her mistake....

 

It'll be entertaining to revisit that little nugget as well.  

[JakeyJokes]

I am feeling defensive about Kathy Griffin saying "my gays" versus Kyle Richards' "gay mixer" because the former's name has been bandied about far too much in this thread for my tastes.

 

Thing is, when Kathy Griffin says "my gays" it as an audience that is packed of them and they applaud because they are being recognized as part of the club. Instead of going to a show in which a stand-up comedian does mainly "Men are like this, and women are like this" and watching everybody else laugh and feeling left out, gay men love Kathy Griffin because she is inclusive of us. Also, it's not her entire show. Is most of her material "gay-friendly" because she talks a lot about Bravo shows and pop culture? Probably. But she doesn't book her evenings as "HELLO, GAYS! STARRING KATHY GRIFFIN".

 

Comparing Kathy Griffin's "my gays" with Kyle Richards' goofy comments are apples and oranges. Or uppers and downers.

[renatae]

I firmly believe that:

- Kim's actions and behavior isn't ALWAYS supposed to be about paying homage to the years of her sisters support.

- That no one else is allowed to have an opinion about Kim based on their own friendship with her just because they don't have 1000+ years put into it

- That Kim shouldn't EVER be mad at Kyle's dramatics because, well Kyle's entitled to be a hot mess after all this time

 

 

 

I think the issue now isn't all the backstory or not being able to have a different friend, etc. What was going on was basically Kyle was concerned when she saw Kim's behavior and left the table. KIM FOLLOWED. They had a brief discussion. Everything seemed OK. But KIM decided to go back into the room before leaving the party to shoot Kyle a snot-o-gram. Kyle was perplexed and wanted to know why Kim was suddenly upset with her. That's all she was asking. Brandi inserted herself. Kim ignored Kyle's question, because, obviously, she only wanted to upset Kyle and she succeeded. Brandi just added fuel to the fire. I don't think Kyle would have even gotten into the "she's my sister" stuff if Brandi hadn't decided to take it upon herself to block Kyle from Kim. Or if Kim would have had the decency to finish what she started.

 

Brandi and Kim were apparently close for 6 months prior to this, and we see no sign of jealousy from Kyle. It was simply Brandi's presumptuousness and Kim's indifference that escalated this. Brandi started the "I'm a better friend" crap. Kyle wasn't going there. She just stated the fact that Brandi had no right to try to interfere with her attempts at talking to her sister.

Edited February 6, 2015 by renatae

[SwordQueen]

This episode we can't help but to talk for pages about how we think this HW should be fired or that HW is OK and should come back next season. We express our feelings based on the characters we see before us each week and their blogs. I think they're being paid to do a job and even though it's a reality show they are giving us a performance. Without the cameras what might have really happened? Would LisaV's conversation with her son been different? Would Kyle and LisaR define who they'd invite to a party been exactly the same...maybe not.

Maybe we should be a little more understanding that there's a strain when trying to live your true life before a camera and wanting to look and be the best. Because no matter what...the edit could include or exclude information. That's what they signed up for.

Brandi should get the "Foot in the Mouth Award" because every other sentence we hear of hers is awful. Even Brandi has said it's tough when all the other HW can show their time with their children to soften them and show depth of personality...she can't. The woman doesn't seem to have one hobby she can share with us. It's as if she sadly has a vacant life without being able to film with her kids. Not dating anyone either...all she has is a hairstylist, a friend and Kim. :( She seems to have no joy this season.

Edited to add: Brandi appears to have burned her bridges with some of the ladies...they just don't see her as funny anymore...past fans have also reconsidered supporting her.

 

 

Eh, for me, I understand it, I just don’t care.  Showing one’s true life and wanting to be portrayed as the best is somewhat, mostly contradictory – unless of course, one actually *is* the best, but then they’d probably know better than to put their shit on reality TV in the first place. ; )  And if this is the end result of these women trying to be “their best”, then damn. lol 

 

I get that there’s [self-inflicted] pressure, but a lot of their SNAFUs are not things that an otherwise thoughtful, introspective person might do, on or off camera.  People don't accidentally fall into cat fights; throwing wine at an otherwise calm, pleasant woman; racial slurs; outing of confidential information; etc.  I’m sure that my expectations are too high for reality TV, and the only reality shows I watch are this and VPR (and now you folks know my deepest, darkest secret), so I’m just SOL, I know.  lol 

 

I don’t see Brandi so much as a “foot in mouth” person. If I felt like she were honestly just a poor speaker and had a tendency to blurt out inappropriate things by accident, then I think I’d have some sympathy.  But I don’t.  The things she says are purposeful and said for various reasons for which she has already rationalized in her mind.  This is just my experience now, but “foot in mouth” people tend to be quite apologetic and embarrassed when they blurt things out.  Brandi is proud.  She gets that self-satisfied look on her face (like other people mentioned Kim having as well) and her body composure changes.  Her mother even admitted that her M.O. is to get attention and act out and when she feels justified (but hey, it’s okay because it doesn’t last long and she’ll say “sorry” right after, just like any polite child of 40 does). 

 

And I can’t make out why Brandi not being able to film with her children means she must be rude and vulgar towards others.  I don’t think it’s one or the other.  I’m sure it’s “tough” to find something to showcase on film when you have shallow interests and have alienated everyone around you.  But I have no sympathy for Brandi with how she portrays herself to the public.  When she was first introduced to us on season 2, I didn’t dislike her at all, but now I know that’s because I didn’t know her.  Editing can only edit material that’s actually there – they can mix it all up and take things out of context but it can’t make Brandi say those nasty things she’s said if she hadn’t actually said them.  Plus, she says the same or similar nasty things off the air, as well, and on her podcast, which isn’t affiliated with BRAVO. 

 

As for the rest of them, I think they all hover somewhere between “being real” and “acting for the cameras” and it flip flops sometimes even within the same scene.  I don't believe Kyle or Lisa had any bigoted or mean intentions with what they said.  I think that they thought they were being funny and progressive.  But either way, they all need to be held responsible for what they say, because in the end it’s their choice to either show who they really are or pretend to be something they are not and it's their actions that they will be judged on, not their intentions. 

[bosawks]

In the Real HoWives universe isn't NOT causing a scene at the party you're "hosting" what's considered rude?

[talula]

In the Real HoWives universe isn't NOT causing a scene at the party you're "hosting" what's considered rude?

[motorcitymom65]

It is inconceivable to me that Lisa would, or ever intended to, reveal the name of Max's birth parents on TV. This would just never happen and she would never do that to them. She can, however, reveal their names to Max if she wants to. She can write it down, whisper it in his hear, or let him watch while she types it in a computer. Or she can just say she will tell him later and do it off camera. Unless this is something that has already happened and they are recreating it for the cameras with the consent on the birth parents, no one would do this on national TV. I do think it is a nice and interesting story line. 

[SwordQueen]

In the Real HoWives universe isn't NOT causing a scene at the party you're "hosting" what's considered rude?

 

Damn, Eileen just can’t catch a break!  LOL  Her house is psychotic, she only serves stacks of flapjacks to her guests (who aren't even children, btw!!!), she doesn’t lock her kid in the closet on poker nights, she doesn't enjoy a free wine facial, her shoes are flat, she fidgets with her pearls too often, and she’s a rude hostess.

[chlban]

Obviously she wasn't try offend or belittle she was throwing a gay mixer.  Now that Kyle and the rest of America has been made aware of the obvious they won't have to revisit the topic, except at every Reunion and every time any Bravolebrity has ever uttered the phrase and a full on special for Kathy Griffin when she comes on.

 

I do think the men who signed up to go enjoyed the prospect of being filmed.  Just like the mactors at SUR and PUMP it is good exposure.  

 

I think after Andy called Brandi a bully all the cast of RH is going to be getting the same treatment Kyle got from Andy Tuesday night.  He seems to gunning for her. Andy doesn't like looking bad in the media.  Kyle said she didn't like the polls that asked, "who was the prettiest", "who is the best mom" questions as opposed to who do you think is right or whose side are you on type questions. It is interesting  about the who is the prettiest because Kyle won that one the first season.

Have you ever said my friend or my husband or my mother or my employees?  I get it was wrong of Kyle and I have said before it reminds me of "my peeps" but I do not think it was done with malice.

For me it wasn't even so much the "my" part that was offensive, it was that I don't understand why "my gays" wouldn't simply fall into the "my peeps" category. In other words, if I have a dinner party and then tell a work friend about it, I would say "I had a few good friends over" I would not say I had a few straight friends and two "gays" over. WTF is that? i just don't break out my friends into categories like that nor do I feel the need to preface any conversation with "my gay hairdresser (I don't have a gay hairdresser,but point mnade) or my

gay friend. Any more than I would reference my African American friends, or my Hispanic friends.

 

Friends are friends period. Unless their gender, ethnicity or sexual preference is pertinent to the conversation I would never even think to mention it. 

 

That said, it's hardly the most offensive thing any of these women do and I don't think any of them are the least bit homophobic, so hopefully they have learned their lessons. 

[Satchels of gold]

It brought a tear to my eye when Lisa said that on Max's birthday he asked if someone, somewhere was sad. Although the entire storyline maybe recreated for the show I can tell you as an adoptive mother that statement was real. I have had the same one many times. :( I know its counter intuitive but hearing that yes, someone is very sad today is actually a more healthy response because it acknowledges that there is loss there. I'm so excited that my daughters birthday is coming up next month and for the first time in 14 years we can celebrate with her bio mother ( well internet celebrate) . A dream come true for all three of us:)