S05.E09: Live And Learn

[ryebread]

Dubai? Not that I remember, but it could have changed. The SoCal kids, for the most part, were pretty sure their feces were without odor. In sum, great place to visit, hated living there.

 

I think that started in the 2010's.  I wonder if any of the 'Shahs of Sunset' attended U of A.  I believe most of them attended high school in SoCal.

 

You mentioned your marginal housing.  Apparently you weren't tight with the cool kids. ;-)  Ya know the group of kids from Dubai that I mentioned my friend's son is involved with?  One of them lives in a 6 MILLION DOLLAR house in the foothills - which is where my friend's kid lives. (no parents present.)  With another 6 million dollar house somewhere in the Santa Catalinas for when they want to ski.

 

He's in for a world of change when he moves back home this summer to his parent's modest ranch in the  Michigan suburbs. LOL

Edited January 15, 2015 by ryebread

[motorcitymom65]

Has Lisa ever mentioned on the show (or anywhere else) that Max had addiction problems?  I have read that a few times on here, but I didn't remember that ever happening.  I know there was a wee bit of speculation in the media and it was commented on a few times on TWoP, but I have always been afraid to type it out because I thought it was all rumor.  Has it been confirmed by Lisa? 

[TattleTeeny]

I think she has--maybe way back in S1 or 2?

 

There's no question they love their girls and they seem to be hands-on parents.  However, I do agree with others that they should reign in their comments about "you can always come back if it doesn't work out" and their feelings of loss.  I don't think a kid should be burdened like that during the most exciting time of your life.  It's already hard enough to leave the next without having to worry about your parent's emptier nest syndrome.

 

I'm just not taking that remark as anything but what it is--"don't feel like you have to stay there if you don't like it." If my parents (people who saw my college apartment once, and the dorms never) had said it, I'd have said, "Yes, thanks, I know that." I took Kyle's comment as she didn't want her daughter to feel like she had to stay because of the time and expense her parents gave to send her there.

Edited January 15, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[AnnaL]

 

What Lisa said DID NOT need to be said for an audience.  But what I think she was trying to explain was the Nature vs. Nuture theory.

 

Genes vs. environment.  It's a little bit of both for all of us, and I really want to believe that's what Lisa was getting at.  And not that Max is lesser than Pandora because he doesn't share the same DNA.  I don't want to believe she and Ken are that despicable.

 

(Although it's entirely possible Ken and Lisa will eventually wash their hands of him and go on with their lovely lives with Perfect Pandora. They have the ability to do that with people.  Which sometimes I find admirable, but not in this case.)

 

Well, that is exactly what Lisa said, this is not the first time she has hinted to that and IMO she does believe that so they are that despicable

 

IIRC Lisa in one of her talking heads said last season that she adored Jason (Pandy's hubby) and sometimes she even loved him more than her son, she then said "just kidding" but I think she was not kidding.

 

As you have pointed out Max is lazy and unmotivated which is not uncharacteristic of spoiled rich guys, Max has also been involved in drugs so at this point whne he is hopefully clean and working, that probably is a step up to what he was doing before but this has nothing to do with the fact that he is adopted. Even biological siblings are different, my sister and I couldn't be more different if we tried and we have the same genes and the same upbringing, Lisa could have delievered exactly the same message , which BTW was on point as far as making him accountable for his decisions and future, yet she threw that comment about genes and he being adopted and the message went out the door.

 

I can't even imagine how hurtful it is for Max to hear his mother say that on TV for millions of people, one thing is that you have a suspicion about what your mother really thinks about you and another is to have that thought voiced outloud where now you know how she feels about you being a looser because you don't have their genes. IMO that was a low blow and very hurtful but of course Lisa will find a wonderful rehearsed explanation for us in her blog where everything will make sense and it all will be forgotten.

 

I can't even imagine if it was Kyle, Yolanda, Adrienne or Camille  who had an adopted daughter and they said that about her, the outrage and the outcry would be out of this world, don't you love the double standards?  

[jinjer]

Has Lisa ever mentioned on the show (or anywhere else) that Max had addiction problems?  I have read that a few times on here, but I didn't remember that ever happening.  I know there was a wee bit of speculation in the media and it was commented on a few times on TWoP, but I have always been afraid to type it out because I thought it was all rumor.  Has it been confirmed by Lisa? 

I thought Season 1 Max was sent away because he was hanging with the wrong crowd, not because he himself was into drugs.  Or at least that was the excuse.  They didn't throw him under the bus.  They covered for him.

 

Adoption is complicated, and there are often issues that arise from being "abandoned" or not lovable enough etc.  Whether Lisa and Ken have been through a tough time with Max or not, they should just leave it off TV.  Unless Max is complicit in this storyline of wayward son growing up and becoming part of the family business and it is all just for show.  But even if he is, it's no bueno. Too many pitfalls for Lisa and for Max.  

 

The only thing I can think is that Max is an adult and signed with Bravo on his own thereby leaving Lisa no choice but to film with him.  Lisa and Ken are exasperated with him and can't hide it at this point.  Adopted or not, kids will drive you crazy sometimes.

[ryebread]

I can't even imagine if it was Kyle, Yolanda, Adrienne or Camille  who had an adopted daughter and they said that about her, the outrage and the outcry would be out of this world, don't you love the double standards?  

 

I agree with every point in your post.  But I also believe that if any of the above housewives had an adopted child that had emotional and behavioral problems like Max clearly does, the thought about genes would've crossed their minds too.  But like I said, those are the kind of thoughts you keep to yourself. Or you bring up with a therapist or doctor if you have questions.  Lisa deserves the backlash.  Yet, you're right that she won't get it like any of the others would get. IF they were stupid enough to divulge such private, damaging thoughts on national tv.

[quinn]

Has Lisa ever mentioned on the show (or anywhere else) that Max had addiction problems?  I have read that a few times on here, but I didn't remember that ever happening.  I know there was a wee bit of speculation in the media and it was commented on a few times on TWoP, but I have always been afraid to type it out because I thought it was all rumor.  Has it been confirmed by Lisa?

 

No. According to Lisa high-schooler Max was hanging out with the wrong crowd and they smoked pot and Lisa felt that the environment in LA was toxic and sent Max to stay with his godmother in another state. The speculation was that Max had deeper problems than what Lisa shared, and other speculation (mine) that Lisa was cast on a reality TV show and Max did not fit in with the image that she wanted to project, so out with Max and in with Cedric and Giggy.

Edited January 15, 2015 by quinn

[harrie]

I was visiting ($50K/year) faculty at UA (Tucson) 2001-2003. Fucking dry heat. You've got your university profs & retirees & then you've got the rest of the city. I was in a really marginal part of town (Sat night highlight was popo helicopters flying over my hood looking for meth labs). Things may have changed since then, but UA had a shit ton of students from SoCal (probably ASU does/did too). Dubai? Not that I remember, but it could have changed. The SoCal kids, for the most part, were pretty sure their feces were without odor. In sum, great place to visit, hated living there.

You mentioned your marginal housing.  Apparently you weren't tight with the cool kids. ;-)  Ya know the group of kids from Dubai that I mentioned my friend's son is involved with?  One of them lives in a 6 MILLION DOLLAR house in the foothills - which is where my friend's kid lives. (no parents present.)  With another 6 million dollar house somewhere in the Santa Catalinas for when they want to ski.

 

These are two different schools:  University of Arizona in Tuscon with the sketchy neighborhoods; and Arizona State University in Phoenix with the students from Dubai.   Just sayin'.  (Alexia goes to University of Tucson according to the episode's chyron intro.)

 

I introduced a co-worker to the show and commented on really, how many families make a family trip, staying overnight/for the weekend, when dropping off their kids at school?  He told me that's what they do now, it's not that unheard of.  That surprised me, since my BF pretty much moved me in (he went to the same school) my freshman year, and I got myself to school(s) in the years after.  Apparently, times do change. 

.  

Edited January 15, 2015 by harrie

[copacabana]

You know, I would have sold my soul for parents who made sure I was clean and nicely dressed

for school. I would have loved help with my homework, but I didn't have to do it because I never had to show my parents a report card. I was 16 and doing sex, drugs and everything else including staying out all night with my 19 year old boyfriend.. with no accountability at all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The love, concern and involvement of these parents, however overstated it may be, makes me weep for all of us who can't even comprehend that kind of devotion. These are very lucky young people.

And Portia is so cute I want to eat her up. I noticed that about my nephew too. So cute I want to take bites of him. But I don't. I don't have any children. Is it weird that I want to devour them?

This is such a touching post.  Thank you for writing it and sharing it with us. 

[runforcover]

I have a life too--a fairly busy one that includes the current (and final, because he's the best) BF--and I would totally watch a show about my ex, depending on which one. Though, no...I'd actually watch a show starring any of my exes, but I wouldn't even snark on the majority because I'm still friends with them. The one I'd snark on would not be much good for TV anyway, as I believe he actually does nothing.

YES, a reality show starring all of my exes, which I could watch with my current boy friend as a supplement to Our Life is a TV dream come true!

[TattleTeeny]

YES, a reality show starring all of my exes, which I could watch with my current boy friend as a supplement to Our Life is a TV dream come true!

 

 

Haha! My BF would love it, as he's actually angrier than I am about an at best ill-advised little tryst between my ex and my own sister (and my family's truly obnoxious reaction to it--i.e., I am the bad guy for being completely disgusted upon learning of this). There's some TV for you.

Edited January 15, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[ryebread]

If I had an ex, no, I would not watch his shitty show. Why? Because I have a life.

 

I have a life too--a fairly busy one that includes the current (and final, because he's the best) BF--and I would totally watch a show about my ex, depending on which one.

 

One thing about watching a show about an ex.  At least I would feel justified in some of my snark because I'd have some solid background information to base that snark on.  Snarking on the housewives sometimes isn't that gratifying (although it's always entertaining) because I don't truly know the details and backstory.  Perfect example is what's happening with Max.  If Ken Todd were my ex (clearly a much, much older ex) I'd have a better understanding based on knowing Ken's true character.  Then I could totally analyze the shit out of that mess.

[runforcover]

One thing about watching a show about an ex.  At least I would feel justified in some of my snark because I'd have some solid background information to base that snark on.  Snarking on the housewives sometimes isn't that gratifying (although it's always entertaining) because I don't truly know the details and backstory.  Perfect example is what's happening with Max.  If Ken Todd were my ex (clearly a much, much older ex) I'd have a better understanding based on knowing Ken's true character.  Then I could totally analyze the shit out of that mess.

Yes, it would certainly be more gratifying.  But would you have anybody filming you watching that show a la Brandi ;)

[ryebread]

Yes, it would certainly be more gratifying.  But would you have anybody filming you watching that show a la Brandi ;)

 

Nevah!  Because then I would also be required to clean my bedroom.

Edited January 15, 2015 by ryebread

[copacabana]

Unless Lisa and Todd clean up their on-camera act with their son what we're seeing is going to hurt their precious image far more than tabloid in the suitcase-gate or any of the thoughtless stupidities they show towards their household staff. 

 

The entire scene with Max was so uncomfortable.  Todd acted vaguely miffed that the kid didn't know or remember it was their wedding anniversary--as though their union is somehow a day of royal feasting.  They really can be too much with their fopperies and fineries.  I seem to recall Lisa touring a music school in LA some seasons ago with Max and being concerned about the rock and roll lifestyle because of his general issues.  She made a point of saying this a couple of times. I never bought the going out west to live with his godmother tale.  This isn't fair to them because I cannot know but I always flash on the scene from The Sopranos where the young kid is whisked away in the middle of the night from his bed to spend some serious time in Utah or some place among the tough macho love reformers set.  

 

(Perhaps going to college themselves on the parts of Kim, Yo, and Kyle would've made it easier for them to get through the experience of saying goodbye.  Just a thought.  If you've had the experience yourself, it's a smidge less frightening to know your child is going to undertake it.  Just a smidge.  In watching the episode again, I realized how lucky Kyle is to have Mauricio.  He handled the whole thing beautifully.) 

 

Lisa has mentioned twice now that I can remember, in talking about her donated fancy gown charity, that she's drawn to this activity because it support girls in foster care and how Max himself came from such a place.  This is what bugs about her attitude -- and meaning no disrespect anyone involved in the vital work of foster care -- but she talks about him and to him as though he is a foster care experiment gone awry.  I don't see leaving a kid to go without electricity for three months (!!) to be any kind of grand tough love thing -- I think it's irresponsible and a total safety hazard for the kid unless he's choosing to live in a shack on the beach.  Walking out of a room, holding onto the dog, the way Ken did because he just can't address anything unless the smog requirements have been met also not the big impressive move in my book.  These smack of passive-aggressive punishments towards someone who has disappointed them.  Fine, but unless you want to feel the heat, keep it off camera. 

 

Everyone has pockets of blindness and stupidity -- this one seems to be Lisa's.  

Edited January 15, 2015 by copacabana

[imjagain]

Well, that is exactly what Lisa said, this is not the first time she has hinted to that and IMO she does believe that so they are that despicable

IIRC Lisa in one of her talking heads said last season that she adored Jason (Pandy's hubby) and sometimes she even loved him more than her son, she then said "just kidding" but I think she was not kidding.

As you have pointed out Max is lazy and unmotivated which is not uncharacteristic of spoiled rich guys, Max has also been involved in drugs so at this point whne he is hopefully clean and working, that probably is a step up to what he was doing before but this has nothing to do with the fact that he is adopted. Even biological siblings are different, my sister and I couldn't be more different if we tried and we have the same genes and the same upbringing, Lisa could have delievered exactly the same message , which BTW was on point as far as making him accountable for his decisions and future, yet she threw that comment about genes and he being adopted and the message went out the door.

I can't even imagine how hurtful it is for Max to hear his mother say that on TV for millions of people, one thing is that you have a suspicion about what your mother really thinks about you and another is to have that thought voiced outloud where now you know how she feels about you being a looser because you don't have their genes. IMO that was a low blow and very hurtful but of course Lisa will find a wonderful rehearsed explanation for us in her blog where everything will make sense and it all will be forgotten.

I can't even imagine if it was Kyle, Yolanda, Adrienne or Camille who had an adopted daughter and they said that about her, the outrage and the outcry would be out of this world, don't you love the double standards?

I don't know if Lisa was kidding but I have to admit I have said this.

My daughter had the sweetest boyfriend a couple years ago and I adored him. My daughter is a strong headed pain the ass at times (I love her but it's the truth).

And I would jokingly say I preferred her boyfriend to her and joke that I loved him more.

I was joking and they have broke up and she is still my daughter and almost nothing would make me take another person's side over hers. The reality is I adore her. But she can be a p.i.t.a and I tell her.

So, I can believe Lisa was joking.

Edited January 15, 2015 by imjagain

[erikdepressant]

fopperies and fineries

There goes some spit coffee, copacabana.  I think "fopperies and fineries" should be the new subtitle for LisaV's thread.

 

Also, you added:

Everyone has pockets of blindness and stupidity -- this one seems to be Lisa's.

Brandi's pocket of blindness and stupidity is called "Earth."

Edited January 15, 2015 by erikdepressant

[ryebread]

I don't see leaving a kid to go without electricity for three months (!!) to be any kind of grand tough love thing -- I think it's irresponsible and a total safety hazard for the kid unless he's choosing to live in a shack on the beach.

 

Sounds to me like they've been supporting him all along. (Big mistake, but I digress.)  If they give him money each month to cover utilities and each month they go unpaid, I think when the electric company finally cuts him off, he deserves to go without electricity.  Think about a 22 year old man living in an apartment without electricity for 3 months. First of all, he's probably not paid the bill for at least 4 because they wouldn't cut it off right away.  So now he's got no lights, no refrigeration, no air conditioning, washer, dryer, freaking toaster oven?.  Just....no.  Hopefully his girlfriend IS kicking his ass because there has to come a point where anyone would give a side eye to a grown man who lives without electricity for 3 months.  And if she's not, she's getting what she deserves, imo. 

 

I fault Lisa and Ken for a lot of things but refusing to pay his electric isn't one of them.  Ken just seems plain fed up.  I get that.  That said, he very well be reaping what he's sown but I understand the frustration.  For everyone.

[RedHawk]

Felt a little, look how rich we are, to me.

 

 

I didn't see it that way, but then I also don't think $1,800 is such a huge amount. To me it seemed like a real discussion, although it was funny that Kyle couldn't think of anything besides "having her nails done" that would be an extra for Alexia to pay for, in addition to food! (How about soap, toilet paper, cleaning products, shampoo, etc.?) If Alexia has a car then there's gas money. That little discussion may also have been more for the cameras, because I hope they would have already had it and then talked with Alexia about what they would pay (tuition, books, rent, car insurance, travel expenses home) and what they expected her to pay (utilities, food, personal stuff, perhaps her own credit card). She needs to learn to budget, pay bills on time, etc. If they're not making her pay some recurring bills and manage her money, then they aren't doing her any favors.

 

Lisa shares TMI about Max's problems and Yolanda downplays Bella's. I would not have known the details of Bella's arrest (or that she already had a suspended license) just from watching the show, so I think Yolanda is making a calculated move in that a large number of viewers aren't digging into Bella's life via the tabloids and judge only on what they see each week. The "one glass of wine" story sounds like bunk, but bunk from a mother who doesn't want to put a spotlight on her daughter's mistake. I know friends and family who similarly downplayed their children's mistakes and misdeeds. It's a natural reaction to protect your child's reputation, even if you the parent are on reality TV.

Edited January 15, 2015 by RedHawk

[copacabana]

There goes some spit coffee, copacabana.  I think "fopperies and fineries" should be the new subtitle for LisaV's thread.

 

Also, you added:

Brandi's pocket of blindness and stupidity is called "Earth."

 

You are too kind, erikdepressant. (Love your avatar).  That whole scene smacked of minor Dickens.  When they start abusing the affection of the Anglophiles, I always want to smack em down hard.  Every once in a while, the airs they put on evaporate and one gets a glimpse of petty, mean-spirited shopkeepers.

 

I am a disaster at linking but if one googles up Max Todd or Lisa Vanderspump's son Max it is possible to see a clear photo of Max and the infamous girlfriend. Pretty blonde.  Also a photo -- can't tell when it was taken -- of old Max downing a huge stein of beer.  Augustus Glut!

 

ryebread -- Well said and I understand the point.  My thing is this -- None of this tough love is bound to do much good as long as they continue to provide him with an all too convenient place to work.  I'd be more apt to cover the electricity bill and less apt to absorb him into the business.  Want to learn the restaurant business from the bottom up instead of going to school?  Great -- Here are some restaurants you might want to try working in, Max.  Let's have a chat about your future while you drive down to DMV and take care of your car requirements, right now.  Lisa can hold Giggy for a couple of hours while you take care of your affairs.  Less talk about biology -- more talk about let's get you started in doing what needs to be done.  It bugs me too that they may actually be using him to drum up interest in their idiotic restaurant show and that the agreed upon plot line is what a screw-up he is at the ripe old age of 22 -- and, oh yeah, he didn't come about as the result of our royal coupling. 

Edited January 15, 2015 by copacabana

[jnymph]

Well this episode sucked.   However, it did make me appreciate my parents very much.   About 10,000 years ago,  I went to a nearby community college.  Once I graduated I got a job - 8 hours away from my hometown.   My parents drove me there, helped set me up with my new apartment & once that was accomplished they kissed me good bye; Mom had the teary eyes going,  Dad gave the 'be safe' speech and then they left.   No huge emotional scene nor making me feel guilty about my new independence.     YEARS later,  I found out Mom cried the entire 8 hours all the way home.      But she'd NEVER admit to that me at that time.  She was happy for me and didn't want me to worry about her.   If you ask me, THAT is the way to parent.   because I turned out fantastic  ; )  J/K.

 

THe off to college thing on RH  is so overdone !!!

[ryebread]

Here's the link, Copa.  Thanks.  I was curious.

http://heavy.com/entertainment/2015/01/max-todd-lisa-vanderpumps-son-adopted-girlfriend-instagram-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/

 

ETA:  Now before y'all open it, try to keep an open mind and try to forget what we know. After you see their pic, come back and write the first descriptive word(s) that come to your mind.

Edited January 15, 2015 by ryebread

[FozzyBear]

Jumping Jesus on a pogo-stick! Pull your shit together Kyle. Stop telling your kids to fail at life so they run home to you. And shut up about the lawyer thing. If it was really such a huge dream you might have at least looked into making it happen sometime in the last 25 years. Yeah, Kyle. Some people go to college and gets degrees and shit even after they get married and have kids. Crazy I know. I'll admit I've always been hard on Kyle, but come on! This is a bridge too far. How many times did she cry? And what's with her "math is hard! I'm just a pretty girl!" act when Mauricio was trying to figure out a budget for Alexia. Isn't figuring out a household budget more or less what she's done with her life? And didn't they figure one out for Farrah? All of a sudden you've forgotten The Hard Times of Kyle and Mauricio: The Early Years and you have no idea how much groceries cost? Whatever Dr Oz endorsed diet pill Kyle is on I am begging her to stop because she is annoying me even more than usual.

[watcherwoman]

I have to give Kyle a pass for her teary goodbye to her daughter.   When we finished helping our son move in to his dorm, it hit me hard too.  I remember I went down one flight of stairs to use the bathroom on the girl's floor before leaving. When I looked in some of the dorms, I saw moms and daughters crying their eyes out.  It hit me that I wouldn't see my son for a few months.  When I went back to say goodbye my son was on his phone happily making plans to meet up with some of his buddies.  He was fine,  ready to live the college life, but his parents cried on that 4 hour drive back home.  Heck, I cried when I looked at his room for a week.  The following summer when he came home, it was great having him home, but I didn't mind him leaving.  We learned that having no kids at home was fun and liberating!  So. life does go on! 

 

I have a bio child and an adopted child.  My adopted child and I often discuss how he has his own way of doing things and we understand that some things are inherited.  It's always a healthy conversation, and there are plenty of opportunities to point to the wonderful things he inherited, like his music ability, his thick beautiful hair and his incredible attention to detail.  I hope that Lisa and Max are able to talk in an open way about anything.

[ryebread]

He was fine,  ready to live the college life, but his parents cried on that 4 hour drive back home.  Heck, I cried when I looked at his room for a week. 

 

And I about cried just reading your post!  Mine is leaving in a year and a half. 

 

I agree with your post.  I give Kyle a pass for being sad.  But she is awfully dramatic and I would not say to my kid what she said to Alexia. We've been told it's best to not even let your kid come home for the first couple weekends.  So telling them they can come home before they've even got there seems like the wrong thing to do.

[Lura]

On skimming some of the previous posts, I'm consoled somewhat to see that others besides me were bored by this episode.  I kept wondering what was going on.  Judging from the weather, I think it was filmed near the beginning and maybe was a series of outtakes that editors could collect and string together if they needed more footage. 

 

My favorite new housewife is Eileen, and I really enjoyed her segment near the beginning.  If she has a fake bone in her body, I can't find it.  She seems 100% natural and doesn't seem to put on any act to gain attention.  I have a feeling that what you see is what you get with her.  At last!  A real, real person!

 

I almost snorted when Kyle and Mauricio began discussing finances and how much to give their daughter to live on!  You mean they hadn't talked about that until they were ready to leave???  Silly me!  I assumed that most parents were like mine -- counting every penny I'd need months or years ahead of time.  But then, if you're rich, you can write a check for any amount, so what does it matter???  HA!

 

Now that Brandi has opened her mouth yet one more time and faces a possible lawsuit, I hope that Bravo fires her as fast as they can.  Get rid of Brandi, and it might be a decent show!  Bravo, are you listening?

[MyAimIsTrue]

Finally, I don't think for second that Lisa got 'caught up' in a producer driven question about Max.  She's a veteran.  Plus, if you consider your children your children, whether they're adopted or not, they are your children.  You don't bring up that they are 'adopted', period. 

 

A-freakin'-men.  My boyfriend's son is adopted and that word hardly ever comes up as the boy is his son, his pride and joy, no matter what.

[jinjer]

Even children among the same gene pool can have very different ways of doing things. :)  I have four and they are like four different seasons.   It's great Watcherwoman that you are supportive of both your children.

 

 I think the criticism of Lisa stems from the fact that she is ascribing Max's negative traits to the fact that is isn't from her and Ken's gene pool.  If she were complimenting Max's wonderful musical talent  and saying that surely it came from his biological parents, I don't think anyone would be questioning it.  But it's his laziness and lack of work ethic. This is just a major miscue for Lisa. So unlike her. 

[Lola16]

 

(Perhaps going to college themselves on the parts of Kim, Yo, and Kyle would've made it easier for them to get through the experience of saying goodbye.  Just a thought.  If you've had the experience yourself, it's a smidge less frightening to know your child is going to undertake it.  Just a smidge.  In watching the episode again, I realized how lucky Kyle is to have Mauricio.  He handled the whole thing beautifully.) 

 

Agreed.  I think it's maybe different for stay at home moms and families that do things together.  By the time I got to be a senior in high school, there wasn't any family togetherness anymore and while I was away at school, no one reached out to see what I'd be doing on breaks.  Had to figure that out on my own.  I think I'd prefer something in the middle of how my family reacted and how the women on these shows react.

 

For Kyle though, she already said goodbye to Farrah when she went to NYU.  And Kim has said goodbye to her kids many times as they moved to their fathers' houses and out on their.  We have seen Yolanda pack off Gigi.  Feels more than a little amped up for TV.

[RedHawk]

Another comment on the $1,800 a month: I know for a fact that plenty of well-to-do parents have their college kids charge nearly everything and then pay the bill for them at the end of the month. They are also pretty liberal with dropping cash in the bank whenever the kid asks for it. Not that I'm saying that's the "right" way, just that K & M seem to be somewhere in the middle when it comes to how they handle their college kid's finances. 

[watcherwoman]

And I about cried just reading your post!  Mine is leaving in a year and a half. 

 

I agree with your post.  I give Kyle a pass for being sad.  But she is awfully dramatic and I would not say to my kid what she said to Alexia. We've been told it's best to not even let your kid come home for the first couple weekends.  So telling them they can come home before they've even got there seems like the wrong thing to do.

Be prepared to shed some tears when yours leaves!   I should have known I would start blubbering, heck I can't stand to drop my dog off at the boarders when we go on vacation!

[copacabana]

Here's the link, Copa.  Thanks.  I was curious.

http://heavy.com/entertainment/2015/01/max-todd-lisa-vanderpumps-son-adopted-girlfriend-instagram-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/

 

ETA:  Now before y'all open it, try to keep an open mind and try to forget what we know. After you see their pic, come back and write the first descriptive word(s) that come to your mind.

 

My first thought was, Did this get taken at Pandora's wedding???!  Seems to have been someone's wedding.  Very confusing.  She's a pretty blonde.  He's ... Max.  Oh well.  I'd be surprised if they hadn't broken up quite awhile ago.  One thing I do know -- Lisa's entertaining to watch but my appreciation for her TV value took a real hit with this last chapter.  She's crossed the line into Full On Fame Whore with the heavy-handed pimping of her kid.  I've had my fill, I guess, of the dog, the pink roses, the afternoon tea and their general air of Horatio Alger meets Princess Diana. 

 

I enjoyed watcherwoman's post above and can totally see such a conversation taking place but I'd bet my eye teeth that watcher would never in a million years let any part of those conversations go out there for everyone to see if her child were experiencing difficulties.  Out of discretion and love for her kid. 

 

I have to also admit to some projection.  I didn't get my life together in terms of real work and finding my footing until I hit 24.  I'm not proud of it even now -- my early teenage years were really really rocky due to stuff happening in my family.  I got lots of support in terms of stuff -- I'm grateful now and was then -- but it took me a long time to get it together.  Part of the problem is that I was afraid of saying I was afraid of the adult world of competition and having to prove.  So I was dangerously reckless about foolish things as a way of over compensating.  I am glad that my remaining parent understood this and was both supportive and ready to light a fire under my ass in slightly less than equal measure.  I was much more afraid of the grown-up world as an early 20 year old than I ever was as a child or a teenager and it took the wind right out of my already kind of messed up sails. 

[SoCal4Us]

WRT Lisa's comments concerning Max, I came away with such a different take than most here that I re-watched the segments.

 

In a TH Lisa says "Is that because we don't share the same genes?  I don't know, because I think each child is different, but as long as he's happy...what do they say?...a mother is as happy as her saddest child."  I think Lisa repeated the producer's question, taking it at face value as a biological vs environmental question.

 

Also, Max is the one who initiated the comparison between Pandy, Jason, Ken & Lisa and himself.  It was when he and Lisa spoke on the phone.

 

IMO Max is very lucky to have Lisa and Ken as parents.

[Mozelle]

Jumping Jesus on a pogo-stick! Pull your shit together Kyle. Stop telling your kids to fail at life so they run home to you. And shut up about the lawyer thing. If it was really such a huge dream you might have at least looked into making it happen sometime in the last 25 years. Yeah, Kyle. Some people go to college and gets degrees and shit even after they get married and have kids. Crazy I know. I'll admit I've always been hard on Kyle, but come on! This is a bridge too far. How many times did she cry? And what's with her "math is hard! I'm just a pretty girl!" act when Mauricio was trying to figure out a budget for Alexia. Isn't figuring out a household budget more or less what she's done with her life? And didn't they figure one out for Farrah? All of a sudden you've forgotten The Hard Times of Kyle and Mauricio: The Early Years and you have no idea how much groceries cost? Whatever Dr Oz endorsed diet pill Kyle is on I am begging her to stop because she is annoying me even more than usual.

 

Wait. Kyle has told her children to fail at life? Is this moment included in a highlights video on the Bravo site, perhaps?

 

Here's the link, Copa.  Thanks.  I was curious.

http://heavy.com/entertainment/2015/01/max-todd-lisa-vanderpumps-son-adopted-girlfriend-instagram-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/

 

ETA:  Now before y'all open it, try to keep an open mind and try to forget what we know. After you see their pic, come back and write the first descriptive word(s) that come to your mind.

 

From that link: 

 

As far as Max's older girlfriend goes, Lisa Vanderpump had a tough time getting used to the relationship. Reality Tea cites Vanderpump admitting: It was a relationship I was most certainly not familiar with and was hardly encouraging as she was thirteen years older than him and worked for me at SUR. I felt her life was in a very different place to his and did not want to encourage that. However, she spent the weekend with us in Palm Springs this weekend and their rocky relationship, one that has been confusing to him and has continued, so time will tell,

 

1. I didn't realize that Max's girlfriend was part of the whole SUR family.

2. That last sentence doesn't make any sense. The girlfriend spent the weekend with them in Palm Springs and their rocky relationship? What? That's a poorly constructed sentence, and I'm having trouble teasing out what it means. Is that Lisa just trying to slide in some (yet another) dig?

[zoeysmom]

http://cartermatt.com/148062/real-housewives-beverly-hills-preview-kim-kyle-richards-face-trouble-santa-barbara/

First look is Saturday at 6:15 pm. 

[SoCal4Us]

Here's the link, Copa.  Thanks.  I was curious.

http://heavy.com/entertainment/2015/01/max-todd-lisa-vanderpumps-son-adopted-girlfriend-instagram-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/

 

ETA:  Now before y'all open it, try to keep an open mind and try to forget what we know. After you see their pic, come back and write the first descriptive word(s) that come to your mind.

 

Pic #1 - Golddigger!

Pic #3 - Ken, Ken Jr, Lisa Jr, Lisa!

[motorcitymom65]

 

I can't even imagine how hurtful it is for Max to hear his mother say that on TV for millions of people, one thing is that you have a suspicion about what your mother really thinks about you and another is to have that thought voiced outloud where now you know how she feels about you being a looser because you don't have their genes. IMO that was a low blow and very hurtful but of course Lisa will find a wonderful rehearsed explanation for us in her blog where everything will make sense and it all will be forgotten.

 

I can't even imagine if it was Kyle, Yolanda, Adrienne or Camille  who had an adopted daughter and they said that about her, the outrage and the outcry would be out of this world, don't you love the double standards?  

I read Lisa's blog today expecting her to clarify her statement. She is getting a little heat for it on other sites, Vulture in particular. That in itself is shocking, because Vulture in particular is pro-Lisa unlike any other that exists.  They hate Kyle with a passion, but for the most part love Lisa. Still, while she is being called out by some, the overall feeling over there is that she is a far better mother than Kyle, who it seems is in fact the most horrific mother to have ever graced the earth.  Go figure. 

 

What surprised me is that she didn't address her comments at all in her blog. I would have thought that if she felt like she was misunderstood in some manner that she would have taken that as an opportunity to clear things up.  She did not. She instead just clarified why the situation with Max is frustrating and what her expectations are.  

 

I wonder if Lisa still stands by the comment she made to Brandi's parents last week about it all being the parents fault. 

Edited January 15, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[FozzyBear]

I ain't saying she's a gold-digger, but she ain't messing with no broke waiter.

Yeah, that's not going to end well.

[erikdepressant]

Wait. Kyle has told her children to fail at life? Is this moment included in a highlights video on the Bravo site, perhaps?

I wasn't going to weigh in on that, but it keeps coming up.

 

I didn't interpret it to mean Kyle wanted her daughter to fail or drop out, either.  To me, it seemed like, "We do want you to go to college, but if it's not right for you, we understand."  I think college can actually get in the way of some people's pursuit of their dreams.  There are plenty of shows out there with stories like, "My parents never forgave me for dropping out of medical school to open my own bakery," or "After being a lawyer for 10 years, I just had to quit because my passion was photography."

 

I think people should pursue the highest level of education they want.  If their skills or goals take them away from college, more power to them.

 

On the flip side, imagine if Kim had told Big Kathy, "I don't want to act anymore.  I want to get an education and teach anthropology."  Without knowing the context of the "you can come home" conversation, I just assumed Kyle was saying, "We want you to be happy."

Edited January 15, 2015 by erikdepressant

[copacabana]

One thing is for sure -- Eileen Davidson for the win with her chicken dinner, roasted broccoli, fruit juice and salad dressing containers on the table, and reminder to the boys to wash their own dishes.  The difference between being so thirsty that you have to ramp up the drama and sell out your family and  being on a show just because it suits you for the moment couldn't be more obvious. 

[Avaleigh]

Does Kyle put her hands on Brandi at all before Brandi shoves her or whatever it is that ended up happening? Will this be the fourth assault on a Bravo employee that we'll witness from Brandi? 

[motorcitymom65]

I wasn't going to weigh in on that, but it keeps coming up.

 

I didn't interpret it to mean Kyle wanted her daughter to fail or drop out, either.  To me, it seemed like, "We do want you to go to college, but if it's not right for you, we understand."  I think college can actually get in the way of some people's pursuit of their dreams.  There are plenty of shows out there with stories like, "My parents never forgave me for dropping out of medical school to open my own bakery," or "After being a lawyer for 10 years, I just had to quit because my passion was photography."

 

I think people should pursue the highest level of education they want.  If their skills or goals take them away from college, more power to them.

 

On the flip side, imagine if Kim had told Big Kathy, "I don't want to act anymore.  I want to get an education and teach anthropology."  Without knowing the context of the "you can come home" conversation, I just assumed Kyle was saying, "We want you to be happy."

I think that all of these ladies are formed to some extent by how they were parented.  Aren't we all to an extent? Lisa talks about her expectations for Max because of what her parents expected of her when she was that age.  I think Kyle is no different. It has always sounded to me like the 3 Richards girls were pretty much told what to do and how to do it, regardless of what they wanted for themselves. I saw Kyle letting Alexis know that she was free to do what she wanted and that they would support her no matter what.  No fear of judgment or disapproval.  Maybe Kyle wishes her own mother would have done the same for her? For me, it was interesting to hear Kyle talk about her mother not encouraging her to go to college with a bit of sadness. It is probably the closest I have ever seen Kyle come to criticizing her mother. 

[Talented Tenth]

As a part of the viewing audience of the show, I don't want anyone speaking for me saying what "the audience" is bored with.  I enjoyed this episode because I started watching the Real Housewives franchises to get a glimpse into the lives of "well-to-do" women.  I find the show the most entertaining when it's authentic regardless of it being dramatic or calm.  It was particularly refreshing to see Kyle with her family because those were real moments and not producer-manufactured drama.

[FozzyBear]

I wasn't going to weigh in on that, but it keeps coming up.

I didn't interpret it to mean Kyle wanted her daughter to fail or drop out, either. To me, it seemed like, "We do want you to go to college, but if it's not right for you, we understand." I think college can actually get in the way of some people's pursuit of their dreams. There are plenty of shows out there with stories like, "My parents never forgave me for dropping out of medical school to open my own bakery," or "After being a lawyer for 10 years, I just had to quit because my passion was photography."

I think people should pursue the highest level of education they want. If their skills or goals take them away from college, more power to them.

On the flip side, imagine if Kim had told Big Kathy, "I don't want to act anymore. I want to get an education and teach anthropology." Without knowing the context of the "you can come home" conversation, I just assumed Kyle was saying, "We want you to be happy."

Well I said it originally so I'll clarify. No Kyle is not literally telling her kids that nore do I think that's what she means or wants, but the over dramatic tearful "You can always come home" sort of implies that she wants that. She's just never excited or positive about her kids new adventures. It's always a ugly cry session full of "if it doesn't work out" or "if you don't like it". It starts everything on a negative, not a positive. And I agree college isn't the only path, but her kids seem to want to go! Kyle is the one having an issue, not the girls. I get it's hard for lots of moms, but I would love to see her put on a brave face and tell one of her kids "This is great! You're going to do so great! This is a great decision! Of course you can call anytime for any reason, but I know you got this!" And save the end of the world tears for the drive home.

[FozzyBear]

Does Kyle put her hands on Brandi at all before Brandi shoves her or whatever it is that ended up happening? Will this be the fourth assault on a Bravo employee that we'll witness from Brandi?

It looks to me like Brandi is trying to leave and Kyle is trying to stop her so Brandi grabs her and shoves her. Hard to tell exactly though.

Edited January 15, 2015 by FozzyBear

[TattleTeeny]

Well I said it originally so I'll clarify. No Kyle is not literally telling her kids that nore do I think that's what she means or wants, but the over dramatic tearful "You can always come home" sort of implies that she wants that. She's just never excited or positive about her kids new adventures. It's always a ugly cry session full of "if it doesn't work out" or "if you don't like it". It starts everything on a negative, not a positive. And I agree college isn't the only path, but her kids seem to want to go! Kyle is the one having an issue, not the girls. I get it's hard for lots of moms, but I would love to see her put on a brave face and tell one of her kids "This is great! You're going to do so great! This is a great decision! Of course you can call anytime for any reason, but I know you got this!" And save the end of the world tears for the drive home.

 

"I know you got this," to me, seems only an appropriate remark if the kid were expressing doubts in her abilities. And I disagree that "you can always come home" implies anything of the kind. Also, it wasn't so long ago that many people were pissy that Kyle "forced" the one daughter to do that fashion show thing, which is kind of the opposite of "you can always come home."

Edited January 15, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[mertensia]

I'm in Tucson. $1800 if it covers the apartment, utilities, textbooks, gas and the rest sounds high but Kyle and Mauricio's clearly don't want her to be a starving student. Plus they clearly would rather not have her have to work her way through college.

Skiing is only at Mt Lemmon's Ski Valley; the only houses in the Santa Catalinas is around Summerhaven with a few legacy cottages here and there. I find it hard to believe your friends have a $6 million house there; land and water is too scarce up there for anything sizeable, ryebread.

My brother didn't even try for a dorm when he went to the U of A - too much competition. He and a few friends rented an apartment.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Between the wine throw, the previews for next week, and the alleged slap of Lisa (it still looks to me like she's pantomiming a story, but we shall see) Brandi should be less worried about Eddie's child support and more worried about a custody battle. Stunts for the show or not she's beginning to establish a tendency for violence. Maybe physical intimidation is a better word? I mean, she's not abusive. I will give her that much. Still...if Eddie really wanted to fuck up her life, he could.

Edited January 15, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[yourmomiseasy]

Here's the link, Copa.  Thanks.  I was curious.

http://heavy.com/entertainment/2015/01/max-todd-lisa-vanderpumps-son-adopted-girlfriend-instagram-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/

 

ETA:  Now before y'all open it, try to keep an open mind and try to forget what we know. After you see their pic, come back and write the first descriptive word(s) that come to your mind.

 

The Christmas photo is too cute with Max's hair all poofy like Ken's and Pandy looking like a mini-Lisa.  Max's girlfriend is pretty, but that is a big age gap, especially at that age.  I'm her age and I know some really hot young men around Max's age.  While it's fun to look, I would never even think of dating them.  We're at different points in our life and I dated enough boys in their early 20s when I was in high school to know that it's not something I want to deal with now.  I'm pretty far along in my career and worried about grey hairs and retirement plans, not about if my electricity is going to get turned off and partying.  I still go out and drink and what not, but when I was Max's age I bounced right back, now that I'm his girlfriend's age I get hangovers.  Of course, none of the hot boys I know in their early 20s have super rich parents that I could second hand leach off of -- not that I probably would, I've been earning my own money for 20 years and don't need someone else's.  

 

"Except that one time in the Feb 2007 issue of Elle UK when Angelina said Shiloh was a privileged blob that she loved less than the adopted kids."

Beep, beep. Back it up. What???

 

The quote is up in my earlier post.  As soon as she was brought up as an example parent I remembered she'd said that because I was so WTF blown away back when it happened.  Newborns are kind of crying pooping lumps and I'm probably not their biggest fan, but I don't think I would say in an interview in a major publication that I like one child less than the others and use that type of language about her, I'd assume she's eventually learn to read and someday see it.

[Avaleigh]

I agree that Kyle just wanted to let Alexia know that she has choices and that they aren't going to guilt trip her if she decides that it isn't what's best for her. Over and over again I feel like I'm reminded about what a good and loving mother Kyle is. 

 

As for Lisa and her treatment of Max--I think that she mentions that he's adopted a lot. At this point regular viewers of the show are well aware but it's like she wants to remind people and continually puts it out there to get people to think that maybe the reasons for Max's issues have to do with the fact that he isn't theirs biologically. As often as Lisa mentions Max being adopted I feel like it means a lot to her at the end of the day. It also couldn't be more clear to me that she loves Pandora more. I've also noticed on more than one occasion her praising Pandora (or Jason) while criticizing Max moments later. It could be boiled down to editing, I suppose, but I think Lisa knows the game well enough by now that if she thinks certain comments are going to be misconstrued then she'll do her best to refrain from making them in the first place. 

 

At the same time I don't think that Ken and Lisa are bad parents to Max, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I see something in their whole dynamic with him that makes me feel some sympathy for Max. Still, the guy needs to get his shit together, he's had a very privileged life, he's lucky to have Ken and Lisa's support in many ways, and there are a lot of people who would be happy to have the opportunities that he's been given. 

 

Regarding those old comments from Angelina Jolie--wasn't the comment closer to something about how she feels for the adopted ones a bit more because they've been through serious stuff and she basically felt that Shiloh had it good from the get go? I haven't read the article since way back when and even then I'd only read highlights, but I remember people jumping on the comments and thinking at the time that what she was saying was being slightly misunderstood. I certainly didn't get the impression that she was saying that she liked one child less than she liked the others.