Small Talk: About Big People

[Madding crowd]

Just finished reading the book Dietland which came out last year. It is fiction but a wonderful expose on being obese in today's society and how fat women are just expected to put up with insults and rude comments. At the end of the day, it is no one's business what you look like and how how much you weigh. While I support trying to become as healthy as you can, some people will never be thin and they should be treated with just as much respect as thin people. 

[cynicat]

On 8/7/2016 at 8:59 PM, Barb23 said:

ClareWalks, I'm with you.  I watch QVC a lot  & can't believe when they announce a model is wearing an Extra, Extra Small when it looks like to me she is a Small. The one model that wears the XXS is busty & curvy. To me, XXS would be worn by a gal who looks like Twiggy.  Drives me nuts - it's always Extra, Extra Small, not even Extra Small or Small. Didn't know there was such a size until I started watching.  It's not even a certain brand, they all seem to carry this size. 

It's pretty ridiculous on the small end too.  I used to be a size 6, and now am probably a 000, but nothing about my body changed.  It's just that 15 years have passed and the numbers shrank--not me.  It's actually very frustrating.

[Cinnamini11]

Came across this article on Buzzfeed and thought it was interesting :) It's about a twitter hashtag #fatsidestories

https://www.buzzfeed.com/sallytamarkin/fatsidestories?utm_term=.yvaerxl4M#.ofvMnjmeV

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Cinnamini11 said:

Came across this article on Buzzfeed and thought it was interesting :) It's about a twitter hashtag #fatsidestories

https://www.buzzfeed.com/sallytamarkin/fatsidestories?utm_term=.yvaerxl4M#.ofvMnjmeV

If you don't like a woman (her actions or her character), the first think people do is comment on her sexuality or her weight (the "slut" then "fat" comments). Their criticisms might actually be valid and have NOTHING to do with her sexual habits or size but by jolly those are going to be mentioned. 

I was harassed online once via Yelp by a worker at Starbucks who said I they didn't want me to come in any more (like what they want should matter to me) because I was "too demanding" regarding my order and I was "stupid fat". They never claimed I was rude, a bitch, a had a bad attitude (which wouldn't have been true, but could've been a relevant criticism), or didn't tip them, just I was "too particular" about my coffee and I was "stupid fat". I guess fat people aren't allowed to be particular about their Starbucks drinks , we should just be grateful we are allowed in Starbucks at all. People have been calling me fat since I was 2yrs old, tell me something I don't know. I just told Starbucks and got $100 gift card out of it. And yes I continue to visit that location, no one is keeping my fat ass away from Starbucks. But the cultural narrative is that you can call a woman "fat" or a "slut" and silence her voice. 

[Barb23]

To all the trainers, nutritionists, etc out there - what would be your food advice to Twit to start losing the weight?  I'm sure eating 3-4 meals a day & smaller portions are better than her evening pasta binge, but what specifics would you recommend for her? How much protein, fruits & veggies, etc? How many daily calories, water consumption?  

[Cinnamini11]

The way Whitney talks about shame and feeling worthless makes me wonder if she’s read anything by Dr. Brene Brown, like the Gifts of Imperfection (good book btw). It also talks a lot about shame and worthiness and how shame requires silence and to be hidden for it to keep its power. There was a discussion on shame before and I remember now about the difference between shame and guilt being  “I am a bad person” vs “I did a bad thing” which is such an important concept. I loved the part about how people try to give “worthiness” conditions. Like- “I’ll be worthy when I…

…get married.

…am financially independent.

…have kids.

…get promoted.

…lose 15 pounds.

But all of that is bull because you’re worthy right now, no conditions apply. American culture in particular espouses a constant “be better, do better” mentality, which can be great for accomplishing things, but it can also hold people back from feeling happy with themselves. I read this book for class and one of the activities we did was to write down our own personal “worthiness” conditions. Actually thinking about them and realizing what they were was very illuminating.

[notyrmomma]

44 minutes ago, Cinnamini11 said:

The way Whitney talks about shame and feeling worthless makes me wonder if she’s read anything by Dr. Brene Brown, like the Gifts of Imperfection (good book btw). It also talks a lot about shame and worthiness and how shame requires silence and to be hidden for it to keep its power. There was a discussion on shame before and I remember now about the difference between shame and guilt being  “I am a bad person” vs “I did a bad thing” which is such an important concept. I loved the part about how people try to give “worthiness” conditions. Like- “I’ll be worthy when I…

…get married.

…am financially independent.

…have kids.

…get promoted.

…lose 15 pounds.

But all of that is bull because you’re worthy right now, no conditions apply. American culture in particular espouses a constant “be better, do better” mentality, which can be great for accomplishing things, but it can also hold people back from feeling happy with themselves. I read this book for class and one of the activities we did was to write down our own personal “worthiness” conditions. Actually thinking about them and realizing what they were was very illuminating.

Yes.  Although I am a big fan of "be better, do better" or even the Japanese "Kaizen" constant improvement mentality, I hate hate hate when people say "I'll be happy when..."  Dammit, be happy now and also be happy when..."  I was hoping this show would help more to promote that message, but its been three seasons of proving the opposite.  This show just highlights how bad it sucks to be fat (which is true).  

Its funny, as a formerly morbidly obese person, I thought everything would fall into place once I lost the weight.  It didn't.  I always thought that my weight was responsible for holding me back at work, but now I'm having conversations with my boss about how to basically get my point across without being condescending or too bossy--I actually have to take a class about how to lead a meeting without offending anyone (I can't remember the exact name of the class--I directly blame the millennials in my office who get their feelings hurt if you look at them wrong as its not like I call anyone a fucking moron to their face, LOL).  Anyway, my point is other people will always try to "shame you" and hold you back no matter what you look like, because they think it will help move them forward.  I swear to God, now that I'm a size 8 people are really on my ass about everything - and I STILL get fat shamed (oh, you're eating that? Why don't you want to go with us to the Cross Fit class? etc etc)

@Cinnamini11 you are my soul brother/sister/person.  I loved your comment on the other thread about the pizza ap and how sometimes your food choices depend on how much more human interaction you can handle that day.  I read your comment to my husband and said "SEE!  I'm not the only one!!"

[Cinnamini11]

16 hours ago, Barb23 said:

To all the trainers, nutritionists, etc out there - what would be your food advice to Twit to start losing the weight?  I'm sure eating 3-4 meals a day & smaller portions are better than her evening pasta binge, but what specifics would you recommend for her? How much protein, fruits & veggies, etc? How many daily calories, water consumption?  

I’m no nutritionist/trainer, but I’ve recently started using myfitnesspal (again) because if these forums do anything its make me question my every food/exercise choice. I love the app – well actually I kind of hate it because fuck calorie counting – but I do like knowing the nutritional information of everything I eat. Plus it was so easy/simple. Enter my height/weight/age etc. and it told me exactly how many calories I needed to consume a day to lose/maintain/gain weight, how many more to eat depending on my exercise for the day. It has specifics like you need to eat/stay under ___g of carbs, protein, sugar, fat, sodium, etc etc. And it keeps track of it all for you.

I can be a bit neurotic though, so this does exacerbate that some. I just ordered an honest to god digital food scale yesterday. And I’m excited about it.

(though in all honesty, I felt like- Is this what my life has come to? Weighing my food? Do I have nothing else to do with my time? The answer to that last one is apparently no, by the way. It's not like I didn't think about my food choices before, but I hate that I'm taking up brain space thinking about if I should/shouldn't eat this cough drop because I'm already up to xyz amount of calories and what if plan to go out tonight, but maybe I can do xyz minutes of exercise so I can eat more and blah blah blah. I know some people live for that kind of stuff and that's awesome, but it kind of makes me feel like something died inside of me.)

wow that last bit got away from me, but oh well. 

[pigs-in-space]

5 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

Its funny, as a formerly morbidly obese person, I thought everything would fall into place once I lost the weight.  It didn't.

Yes to this!  I remember reading a book on weight loss years ago (for some reason, I think it might have been Jillian Michaels, but it also could have been someone else), and one of the first points of the book was that if you were trying to lose weight to get a significant other or some other external factor, look around.  It's not just skinny people who have boyfriends/girlfriends.  There are many overweight people who are happy in relationships/satisfied with their career/whatever.  You can't expect all of those things to happen just because you lose weight - you'll be disappointed and may be more likely to re-gain the weight.  That was an eye-opener for me.

Also, Snarklepuss said this in the reunion thread, but I wanted to talk about it more here:

Quote

I think Whitney thinks it's horribly unfair that skinny people seem to eat whatever they want and don't get as fat as her (hence not criticized as much by others) so she uses that as her defense of why she shouldn't have to change her eating habits, as if it's not her fault so it's not fair to criticize her or ask her to change.  But it doesn't matter whose "fault" it is or why she's so fat - Everyone's body is different.  Some people can eat more and stay thin, others less.  Some people are satisfied with less, others need more, but if the effect of all that is morbid obesity and health problems, then SHE has to get over how unfair it is and do whatever it takes to help herself.  Getting mired in what everyone else thinks and the unfairness of it all is only going to make her get defensive and eat even more to spite them or soothe her pain.    I understand how she feels but she really needs to get over everyone else in the world and stop ignoring what it's doing to her body.  She can't continue to blame the world or her body and ignore her health.  And when a lot of people caution her, she seems to take it as criticism, not help when in fact they are trying to help her.  Even the comedian I think is trying to get through to her by shocking her.  Whatever works.

This is something I personally struggle with in my own life, so it really spoke to me.  When I was younger, I was lucky enough to be able to eat whatever I wanted and not gain an ounce.  Then my metabolism changed after college and I suddenly couldn't do that anymore, and a part of me, deep down, still feels that I shouldn't have to watch what I eat.  I should still be that child/teenager who could eat a huge meal and be fine.  But obviously I'm not that person anymore, and I have to fight against that instinct all the time.

I also get the same way with alcohol, where I look at other people and think it's unfair that they can have a few drinks and be fine, but I can't.  But I'm aware of these thoughts (which can be really destructive) and I push back against them.  As Snarklepuss said above, life isn't fair, and the more you can take that to heart and be grateful for the gifts you do have, the happier and more successful you'll be.

[auntjess]

About pizza aps, my sister has one from Papa John's, and you earn free pizzas fairly quickly if you're ordering for the grandchildren/great nephews once a week.
 

[SongbirdHollow]

10 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

its not like I call anyone a fucking moron to their face, LOL).

Heh heh, I think I like you.

We had to do a personality/problem solving class at work where they sorted us into colors. Blues were people-pleasers, Greens analytical, Reds free spirits and Browns blunt and to the point. I was Brown. The class was actually pretty helpful in understanding other's M.O.'s so that you can work effectively with them. It was also fun to get together with other Browns and commiserate about how people just don't say what they mean!

[DatFatShorty]

Well, to introduce myself: Always been fat. At 5'4" the heaviest I've ever been is 158 lbs and the skinniest is 127, currently at 135. I know you're not supposed to discuss Whitney here, but she is the reason I'm in this forum after all. Anyway, I do wonder why I started watching this show and I guess it has a lot to do with the fact I considered Whitney a nice role model, being a fat woman with a positive attitude, who dances and is loud, we don't see those much on TV. We're the same age, I have endometriosis, she has something similar, I can't dance so watching a fat woman doing it was refreshing...I don't know, I thought she was cool at first, one of the first episodes, with a guy calling her a whale, I related as people have yelled mean stuff about my weight before.
I don't know WTF Season 3 is all about. You can say is many things but a Love Whitney Fest, that's for sure.

I guess it was refreshing to see something different on TV. I cringe when I hear her use PCOS as an excuse though. Why can't she just say "I have terrible eating habits and that's why I fat?" Many of us have bad eating habits and that doesn't make us bad people;  just fat :)

That's it. Just wanted to say hi! I've lurked for a couple of weeks and find your views and discussions very interesting.

[pigs-in-space]

3 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

We had to do a personality/problem solving class at work where they sorted us into colors. Blues were people-pleasers, Greens analytical, Reds free spirits and Browns blunt and to the point. I was Brown. The class was actually pretty helpful in understanding other's M.O.'s so that you can work effectively with them. It was also fun to get together with other Browns and commiserate about how people just don't say what they mean!

JFC, they couldn't find a better color than brown?  

[John M]

On 8/10/2016 at 11:24 AM, Madding crowd said:

Just finished reading the book Dietland which came out last year. It is fiction but a wonderful expose on being obese in today's society and how fat women are just expected to put up with insults and rude comments. At the end of the day, it is no one's business what you look like and how how much you weigh. While I support trying to become as healthy as you can, some people will never be thin and they should be treated with just as much respect as thin people. 

Sure, I completely agree with that but it doesn't apply to Whitney at all, at this point Whitney has eaten herself into physical disability and beyond normal societal accommodations for even the really obese. She is an out of control addict that is killing herself and any support for the path she is going through is doing a great disservice to her. 

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, John M said:

Sure, I completely agree with that but it doesn't apply to Whitney at all, at this point Whitney has eaten herself into physical disability and beyond normal societal accommodations for even the really obese. She is an out of control addict that is killing herself and any support for the path she is going through is doing a great disservice to her. 

I totally agree with you. 

And while I might treat someone with respect to their face it in no way means that I can't feel disgusted, frustrated, angry, or horrified by/at their actions. Or talk about them. (In THIS capacity anyway.)

I was an in-home family therapist for years. Whitney's actions are no different than the dozens of drug addicts I worked with. Her ordering from different pizza places is no different than the people I worked with who would "pharmacy shop" and go to different pharmacies because they were ashamed of the multitude of prescriptions they were picking up. (Or scared they'd get caught, before the database went into effect.) I think she's an addict, plain and simple, and hides behind her "no body shame" as protection. If she gets called out for her behavior, she cries "fat shaming" or prejudice. It's a way to shun accountability and responsibility. 

I had to STOP being a therapist because it was too emotionally draining. My compassion, which might not be largely apparent on THIS site, was so great that I got emotionally invested in my clients and took their issues home with me. However, when it comes to Whitney, my give a damn's busted. 

[Madding crowd]

Did you mock or shame your clients, call them pigs or hippos, make fun of their appearances? Of course not because treating people with respect and compassion is how we should treat each other. A lot of people do self destructive things, smoking, drugs, etc, etc. The only person who is treated with mockery is the fat person. I don't believe strangers "care" about Whitney and making fun of how she looks is not about caring. 

[Ketzel]

50 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

The only person who is treated with mockery is the fat person.

Try being a recovering stroke victim, out in public, asking for directions when your speech is slurred and your face is partially paralyzed . Try being an old person, making your way through a crowded sidewalk slowly, because of your balance issues, when the person behind you wants to MOVE.  Try being  a mother with a young fussy baby in a place where other people think the baby shouldn't be.  Try being deaf when someone with a short fuse decides you're ignoring them.  Try wearing a hijab in public. Or just ask the other TLC "stars" -- the little people or the "giant" women (never men, for some reason - because TLC thinks there's no such thing as "too tall" if you're a man?) if they experience mockery in public.

There's a lot of stupid cruelty in the world and no one should be subjected to it. Overweight/obese people don't have a monopoly on being treated with disrespect and lack of compassion, and claiming they do makes people like Whitney and her defenders look self-absorbed and whiney. 

[Barb23]

Amen!!  Ketzel, your post is great & should be a must read for Twit.  I can relate somewhat in what you are saying.  I have rheumatoid arthritis & even with surgery, my hands & fingers are deformed.  It doesn't feel very nice to be asked (usually very loudly) by a cashier "OMG, what is WRONG with your hands?" when I hand her my money which makes everyone in my immediate area stop what they are doing & stare at my hands. Or question why I'm limping.  These examples don't seem like much but I'm a quiet person & unlike Twit, I don't like attention being drawn to myself.  I never mind answering questions about my RA, but sometimes people don't realize how they come across in their asking.

Your post fits perfectly with the No Body Shame way of thinking (in a positive way).   I think this is how Twit envisioned it at the beginning - we all have body issues to deal with (not just weight) & some worse than others.  But somehow Twit has made the NBS all about her & being fat.

[Cinnamini11]

11 hours ago, John M said:

Sure, I completely agree with that but it doesn't apply to Whitney at all, at this point Whitney has eaten herself into physical disability and beyond normal societal accommodations for even the really obese. She is an out of control addict that is killing herself and any support for the path she is going through is doing a great disservice to her. 

In all fairness, I think it does apply to Whitney just from the fact of her being fat (which encompasses a wide range of weights) and a woman. She could be the next half ton woman and still shouldn’t be called a beached whale etc etc other obesity shaming stuff.

This is actually the part I like about Whitney being an anti-fat shaming figure! Because Whitney is a “bad” fat person. People have described her as delusional, nasty, self-centered; she has an abrasive personality; she eats like crap and doesn’t exercise that much; she whines and makes excuses, and ignores doctor’s advice. It’s easy to shame some fat person who is stuffing their face with pizza day after day. She’s not a model fat person.

A “model” fat person is happy, but a tad contrite about their weight. They acknowledge they have an eating problem. They try or try and fail to stick to a diet plan and get in regular exercise. If they fall off the wagon they dust themselves off, get back up and are determined to try again. That’s why people can snort and laugh a fat stranger, but turn to their friends like- Oh no, but I don’t mean you. You’re doing everything you’re supposed to. As if there are conditions to not fat shaming someone. And for clarity I’m not talking about just anything Whitney wants to claim as fat shaming, I’m talking about actual fat shaming. If people can realize that it's not okay to fat shame even someone like Whitney, it's shows a deeper understanding of the problem.

Additionally, I think it’s kind of ironic that although I disagree with a lot of the harsher observations of Whitney, that doesn’t mean I’m particularly compassionate towards her. I just hate fat shaming. Not to too sound terrible, but I honestly don’t care if Whitney completely lets her health go and dies. I mean, I care in the way another human being cares about a stranger dying, in that oh that’s sad kind of way. But I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it. I watch part of her life on tv but we’re not friends or acquaintances or family. She’s not getting bombed or murdered. I dunno, do you Whitney idgaf.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Cinnamini11
typo

[crazycatlady58]

1 hour ago, Ketzel said:

Try being a recovering stroke victim, out in public, asking for directions when your speech is slurred and your face is partially paralyzed . Try being an old person, making your way through a crowded sidewalk slowly, because of your balance issues, when the person behind you wants to MOVE.  Try being  a mother with a young fussy baby in a place where other people think the baby shouldn't be.  Try being deaf when someone with a short fuse decides you're ignoring them.  Try wearing a hijab in public. Or just ask the other TLC "stars" -- the little people or the "giant" women (never men, for some reason - because TLC thinks there's no such thing as "too tall" if you're a man?) if they experience mockery in public.

There's a lot of stupid cruelty in the world and no one should be subjected to it. Overweight/obese people don't have a monopoly on being treated with disrespect and lack of compassion, and claiming they do makes people like Whitney and her defenders look self-absorbed and whiney. 

Or even being not very attractive .  I walked into a nice restaurant  a few years  ago  to have a early  supper  and saw two young men, part of the waitstaff ,  watching  me come in one poked  the other and said " here comes your date. " and grinned .  No it was  not said loudly  but they were facing  me Iand I read his lips . Now  while I am no beauty by any means, neither am I so ugly  I would stop  a clock. I ,at that time, was an average  50 something  women. People  will say hurtful things. I will admit I think hurtful  things abut Whitney ,  but I do correct  my thinking I know  it is wrong . I only started  doing this  after she was so nasty  to her dad, but still it is wrong of me to think such mean things about her.

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, Ketzel said:

 

There's a lot of stupid cruelty in the world and no one should be subjected to it. Overweight/obese people don't have a monopoly on being treated with disrespect and lack of compassion, and claiming they do makes people like Whitney and her defenders look self-absorbed and whiney. 

@Madding crowd the only people mocked are the overweight?

I can't say much more than what the eloquent Ketzel said above, but try being Appalachian. Redneck. Hillbilly. We are mocked for our looks, our accents, our lineage, our physical appearances. Heck, there are so many stereotypes of us that Hollywood even finds it acceptable to mock us in film and TV.

Overweight people are not the only ones mocked, nor are they the only ones society finds it acceptable to mock.

[John M]

5 hours ago, Cinnamini11 said:

In all fairness, I think it does apply to Whitney just from the fact of her being fat (which encompasses a wide range of weights) and a woman. She could be the next half ton woman and still shouldn’t be called a beached whale etc etc other obesity shaming stuff.

What you are talking about is verbal abuse which is never OK and has never been OK, what Whit is talking about is being fat shamed because she inhaled a plate of giant cupcakes, or not adhering to an office dress code because she doesn't feel comfortable wearing pants and would rather wear completely inappropriate looking nude tights or people being concerned that she is near immobile because of her obesity and keeps eating peanut butter and banana snacks, 700 calorie coffees and cookies the size of her head.

As a gay man I feel safe saying that I have been called a f**, f*****, or c******** or something similar as many if not more times as Whit has been called some fat shaming word and I have to worry about actual physical hate crimes that come along with those word. Yeah, some people are nasty animals, sometimes it hurts. Actually it happened a few weeks ago as I was sitting at a bar with some friends on the patio, guy drove by in a car, rolled the window down and screamed "F****** F******s" and we laughed it off.

There will always be mean people in this world and yet in three years, hundreds of hours of filming we have seen Whit allegedly harassed twice and both of them felt really unbelievable, like almost all of us in this forum were incredulous that they were not planned by the producer.

For Whit it seems very much like "fat shaming" means facing the realities of her addiction or uncomfortable truths about her size, mobility and health and for that I say tough shit, put on some fucking pants like the job requires quit, it's like an alcoholic arguing that they should be allowed to drink beer during the work day against corporate rules because otherwise they get the DTs.

[Cinnamini11]

23 hours ago, John M said:

What you are talking about is verbal abuse which is never OK and has never been OK, what Whit is talking about is being fat shamed because she inhaled a plate of giant cupcakes, or not adhering to an office dress code because she doesn't feel comfortable wearing pants and would rather wear completely inappropriate looking nude tights or people being concerned that she is near immobile because of her obesity and keeps eating peanut butter and banana snacks, 700 calorie coffees and cookies the size of her head.

Okay... Which is why I said "I’m not talking about just anything Whitney wants to claim as fat shaming, I’m talking about actual fat shaming."

Also side note I tend to go for the verbal abuse stuff when getting examples of fat shaming because it's easiest, but I also want to be clear that I know it encompasses more than verbal abuse (or even people just saying things), but rather includes systemic issues. I listed a bunch of things in some thread (maybe the Whitney one? idk) but thin privilege websites have examples also. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Cinnamini11

[Almost 3000]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 7:18 PM, lovetheduns said:

This is why I use small bowls and small plates to eat my meals. I also use smaller spoons so I don't shovel food in my gullet like we saw with Whitney.

I just sold my mom's beautiful gold rimmed Lenox china from the fifties. All the pieces were much smaller than anything sold today. The individual sauce dish which isn't even part of sets today was about the size to serve 1/2 a peach or a couple of apricot halves or several spoons full of apple sauce and the juice glasses were about 4oz.

[Cinnamini11]

Moving my response over here.

One thing I think will help make my responses to doubts about Whitney’s experiences/the validity of her emotional reactions/thought processes* clearer is that doing this to a marginalized group is something that bothers me a lot. As someone belonging to various groups that have their experiences dismissed or looked upon with suspicion, its important to me.

I do get that people are specifically talking about Whitney, but when people comment on some of her thought processes as ridiculous I can’t seem to differentiate what makes it ridiculous for her at 380lbs and not ridiculous for a “normal, everyday” fat person at 200lbs. That’s one reason I like things such as Twitter hashtags like the one I mentioned before (#fatsidestories) because it shows the lived experiences of a variety of people within a group that have similar experiences/thoughts despite their different locations/ages etc.

I think it’s great that the majority of people here talk about how they don’t fat shame others in their lives. But that’s the thing about any sort of prejudice, there are tons of people who don’t subscribe to that kind of thinking, but there are still enough people that do, that the people in that group can all describe similar experiences. It’s like most decent people wouldn’t laugh at a fat person working out in a gym. But for fat people it happens often enough that a fat person in society can share a story like that and have a group of other fat people go “Oh my god, yes, I know exactly what you mean.”

 

*not meaning stuff like -oh I'm sure Whitney experiences this in real life, but not this specifically worded/acted incident because reality tv

[John M]

Whitney is not a marginalized person, she is making hundreds of thousands of dollars on national TV peddling her delusion, terrible personality, vindictiveness, narcissism and trying to celebrate the spiraling addiction that is disabling/killing her on national TV, it's like comparing the functional alcoholic to Anna Nicole Smith. Is my 600-lb Life "Fat shaming" to you?

Don't compare Whitney to the average fat/obese person, to me that is even more demeaning to them and I think that makes their problems even harder being lumped into the same category as someone like Whit.

[Cinnamini11]

3 hours ago, John M said:

Whitney is not a marginalized person, she is making hundreds of thousands of dollars on national TV peddling her delusion, terrible personality, vindictiveness, narcissism and trying to celebrate the spiraling addiction that is disabling/killing her on national TV, it's like comparing the functional alcoholic to Anna Nicole Smith. Is my 600-lb Life "Fat shaming" to you?

Don't compare Whitney to the average fat/obese person, to me that is even more demeaning to them and I think that makes their problems even harder being lumped into the same category as someone like Whit.

You're conflating wealth and personality with membership of a group. Example: President Obama is black and therefore a part of a marginalized group even though he's, you know, the president. 

No 600lb Life isn't fat shaming to me besides any incidents of fat shaming that can take place in it? Like I don't know pointing and laughing or something. 

Is there a particular weight limit you had in mind that allows people to identify as fat?

I never said Whitney was average. But her place at one end of the spectrum doesn't disallow her a place in the group in general.

(Edit: Is there a particular example of fat shaming that you would like to do to Whitney that you wouldn't find acceptable to do to an average fat person? Like beyond the fact of you thinking Whitney is a despicable human being, which I said nothing about, what are we even disagreeing about right now?)

Edited August 15, 2016 by Cinnamini11
edited to add last part

[ClareWalks]

I think one reason that people might think more critically of food addiction than other addictions is that, like all addictions, it is overindulgent, but unlike other addictions, it feels more like it is indulgent *at the expense* of others. Can you imagine if someone like Whitney, rather than eating so much, donated her excess food to a food bank? Or gave the money she spends on cookies at Starbucks to a charity that helps starving children in other parts of the world? I am not suggesting that everyone who eats too much occasionally or gets Starbucks is a sinner of some sort (nobody is perfect, not even Mother Teresa, and there's only so much we can do), but I think some people see severe overeating as a particularly wasteful issue that is extremely widespread in the First World, when you look at people in other areas who are dying every day from starvation. The difference between most people and Whitney is that most people have compassion. I honestly think at this point that if Whitney had a pizza and came across a starving homeless person, she would probably just guffaw and keep walking, clutching her pizza box. I don't think first-season Whitney would have done that, but fame has made her insufferable.

To clarify: I don't think that people should yell at strangers for overeating. But people can and do *think* whatever they want, so I am speculating on the thought process.

[Madding crowd]

My point was not that no other person was ever insulted but that fat mockery is the only one acceptable in society. If someone on this forum said a person wearing a hijab or gay was vile just because of those things, there would be no likes and the Mods would ban the post.I agree that Whitney is immature and self-centered but the level of hate towards her is only leveled at fat people. 

Since none of us know her, she hasn't taken money from our bank accounts or hurt our children and we can easily turn off her show, I see no other reason for things like calling her a pig or a vile human being. And  those of you who have been insulted in public, that would never be from me. I don't believe in shaming or insulting people for the way they look.  I do like snark but not fat shaming. 

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's refer everyone to @OnceSane's mod note on the topic;

Quote

Just a reminder: Fat-shaming is not okay here.  We walk a very fine line between snark and shame, let's not cross it.  Posting about Whitney's less-than-fabulous life due to her weight and/or attitude?  Fine.  Snarking on Whitney's lack of personal responsibility, the way she interacts with others, or even her style of dress?  Also okay.  Making comments strictly to fat-shame (ex: posting inappropriate pictures/photoshops, conjectures about sex chairs which we have no proof she needs/uses, etc).  Not. Okay.

Please read and follow. If you think someone isn't following it, use the report button. If you just don't like what someone says, use the ignore option. Be civil to your fellow posters.

I think this topic can be left for dead now, having been beaten far past that point.

[Cinnamini11]

11 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I think one reason that people might think more critically of food addiction than other addictions is that, like all addictions, it is overindulgent, but unlike other addictions, it feels more like it is indulgent *at the expense* of others. Can you imagine if someone like Whitney, rather than eating so much, donated her excess food to a food bank? Or gave the money she spends on cookies at Starbucks to a charity that helps starving children in other parts of the world? I am not suggesting that everyone who eats too much occasionally or gets Starbucks is a sinner of some sort (nobody is perfect, not even Mother Teresa, and there's only so much we can do), but I think some people see severe overeating as a particularly wasteful issue that is extremely widespread in the First World, when you look at people in other areas who are dying every day from starvation. The difference between most people and Whitney is that most people have compassion. I honestly think at this point that if Whitney had a pizza and came across a starving homeless person, she would probably just guffaw and keep walking, clutching her pizza box. I don't think first-season Whitney would have done that, but fame has made her insufferable.

To clarify: I don't think that people should yell at strangers for overeating. But people can and do *think* whatever they want, so I am speculating on the thought process.

Well I think we have different points of view, but I doubt that’s a surprise to anyone lol. Personally, I think people are more critical of food addiction because it hasn’t quite gotten quite the same “actual medical problem” stamp of approval.* Moreover, depending on your level of severity, some people either won’t even know you have an addiction, or some people won’t see you because you’re living in an abandoned house/crack den. But if you’re fat, everyone knows you're fat.

So yeah people with food addiction eat a lot, but the expense of other addictions is worse in my opinion. Like second hand smoke. Or meth addicts tweaking out and killing someone, alcoholics getting into drunk driving accidents, crack addicts stealing everything from their mother’s house for their next fix etc. etc.

I’m not sure where to go with the whole donating money/food idea. Mostly because the food that’s the worst for you/high in calories is usually the cheapest ($1 burgers, $1 32oz drinks at McDonalds). That’s a part of the strong relationship between obesity and poverty… Also it kind of reminds of when some parents are trying to get their kids to finish their dinner because ‘don’t you know there are children starving in Africa?’

I mean Whitney clearly doesn’t cook that much, so she can't donate that to a food pantry. And even if she’s not buying food doesn’t necessarily mean she’s donating her money to anyone else anyway.

(Slight digression, but there are also a lot of kids who go hungry in the US and food deserts where communities can’t even access a grocery store on a regular basis. Like. Food waste is a horrible problem, but I don’t think it’s going to be helped that much by obese people eating less. (Actually I think that’s rather rude, but that’s just my opinion. Not saying that you specifically don't, but to people who do in general). I believe we need more focus on harvesting extra, left to rot, crops on farms and donating “ugly produce” that gets thrown away from grocery stores and programs to safely reuse leftovers from restaurants (think extra bread from Panera) for people who are hungry.)

America overall definitely has great access to food and our obesity problem can be seen as gluttony with food (along with our culture of gluttony for everything), but seeing someone eat an entire pizza by themselves doesn’t phase me at all in comparison to corporations dumping hundreds of thousands of pounds of edible food. I think of it this way- them not eating that pizza, or even any other pizza for the rest of their lives, isn’t going to help the unknown poor single mother trying to feed her kid down the street.

I mean, I see what you're saying, but I've always thought the open criticism of obese people/people with food addiction really ties more into societal norms/aesthetics. 

*not that people don’t look down on all sorts of addictions, because they do

Edited August 15, 2016 by Cinnamini11
whoops left off the asterisk; also some clarifications

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Cinnamini11 said:

Well I think we have different points of view, but I doubt that’s a surprise to anyone lol. Personally, I think people are more critical of food addiction because it hasn’t quite gotten quite the same “actual medical problem” stamp of approval.* Moreover, depending on your level of severity, some people either won’t even know you have an addiction, or some people won’t see you because you’re living in an abandoned house/crack den. But if you’re fat, everyone knows you're fat.

So yeah people with food addiction eat a lot, but the expense of other addictions is worse in my opinion. Like second hand smoke. Or meth addicts tweaking out and killing someone, alcoholics getting into drunk driving accidents, crack addicts stealing everything from their mother’s house for their next fix etc. etc.

I’m not sure where to go with the whole donating money/food idea. Mostly because the food that’s the worst for you/high in calories is usually the cheapest ($1 burgers, $1 32oz drinks at McDonalds). That’s a part of the strong relationship between obesity and poverty… Also it kind of reminds of when some parents are trying to get their kids to finish their dinner because ‘don’t you know there are children starving in Africa?’

I mean Whitney clearly doesn’t cook that much, so she can't donate that to a food pantry. And even if she’s not buying food doesn’t necessarily mean she’s donating it to anyone else anyway.

(Slight digression, but there are also a lot of kids who go hungry in the US and food deserts where communities can’t even access a grocery store on a regular basis. Like. Food waste is a horrible problem, but I don’t think it’s going to be helped that much by obese people eating less. (Actually I think that’s rather rude, but that’s just my opinion. Not saying that you specifically don't, but to people who do in general). I believe we need more focus on harvesting extra, left to rot, crops on farms and donating “ugly produce” that gets thrown away from grocery stores and programs to safely reuse leftovers from restaurants (think extra bread from Panera) for people who are hungry.)

America overall definitely has great access to food and our obesity problem can be seen as gluttony with food (along with our culture of gluttony for everything), but seeing someone eat an entire pizza by themselves doesn’t phase me at all in comparison to corporations dumping hundreds of thousands of pounds of edible food. I think of it this way- them not eating that pizza, or even any other pizza for the rest of their lives, isn’t going to help the unknown poor single mother trying to feed her kid down the street.

I mean, I see what you're saying, but I've always thought the open criticism of obese people/people with food addiction really ties more into societal norms/aesthetics. 

*not that people don’t look down on all sorts of addictions, because they do

I think people are more critical of food addiction because for most people food is something that they can and do manage without becoming addicted so the attitude is "well millions of people can eat in a "normal" way why can't you? What's WRONG with you that a necessary thing for living (eating) is killing you?"  Where as with other addictions it's a "oh yes well everyone knows it's hard to quit that" type of attitude. 

Also yes the thing about being fat is everyone can see your "issue" before they know anything else about you. Someone could suffer from depression, other addictions, anxiety etc etc and the world never know, fat people don't really have that option. We carry our struggle externally (in the cases that it's a struggle). 

[Tosia]

America's obesity problem is also the result of  several factors tracing back to corporations who are getting fat on profits stemming from the  widespread development of processed foods with hyperfavored additives, as well as mass quantities of sugar, salt, and fat.

So, obesity stems from corporations who run the  fast food places; processed food plants,  including soda makers;  stores who sell the stuff--which is everywhere, plus in stores you wouldn't expect to buy food like Joann's Fabrics to Best Buy, et al; school meals; etc.

The corporations who make processed foods that took hold in earnest in the 50's were purportedly trying to make it easier and faster, for a traditional mom to feed her family--hence, box meals chock full of additives for preservation on the shelf or freezer.

Microwave manufacturers are guilty too. You could probably  extrapolate almost electronic (tv), or invention (air conditioning or vehicles),  that has made life more convenient as adding to our sloth-like,  less healthy existence. 

And the lobbyists for the specific food ingredient industries, agrabusinesses, and geographic regions where the basic food is grown, like corn or sugar cane,  which is then processed into thousands of other junk foods. Coke wants soda back in the schools where I live, and they give hefty "donations", such as computers,  and  $kickbacks to the districts who allowed them in, in past years. 

Obesity, and it's cormorbidity health issues, like high blood pressure, diabetes, hip, knee, and back pain, heart attacks/strokes, etc., is also due to media advertising of processed foods--again, EVERYWHERE.  Internet,  tv, radio, magazines, bill boards, schools, etc. The advertising pictures and sounds like bacon frying or cracking a cold pop top, including images of people in almost orgasmic pleasure as they enjoy the food--thin, beautiful, mostly female models mouthing chocolate,  or happy kids eating ice cream or the 10 kinds of cheerios; cereals have become candy. Smells, too, are particularly strong advertising. Think abt the popcorn aroma in a movie theatre, or Cinnabon in the mall. The senses are gullible; food is definitely pleasurable. 

There is just too much of the above sabotaging our dwindling will power and best- intentioned goals. I think that awareness of the less healthy processed foods is growing due to more info we learn on all of the above. But it's hard to resist.  

Obesity results  from many factors, (environment and genes),  and everyone is different.  Knowledge and awareness of these factor help us deadly with it.  I actually shut my eyes and hit mute when a food commercial comes on, and avert my eyes from signs abt food. 

I learned most of the above from doing research on diet books. The info from Brian Wansink and Yoni Freehoff were based on rigorous research and studies. Others not so much. 

Verbal abuse is horrible,  but there are assholes who will continue to do it to anyone, for any reason, and justify it as acceptable in their twisted minds---due to either how they were raised, the communities they choose to identify with, and personal experiences--that's part of the reason why racism and sexism (add your own "ism" here) still exist.   I can only hope that we're still evolving beyond shaming anyone. JMHO. Peace out. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Tosia
Not sure what I was trying to say and it's too late.

[Snarklepuss]

On 8/13/2016 at 2:07 PM, pigs-in-space said:

Also, Snarklepuss said this in the reunion thread, but I wanted to talk about it more here:

This is something I personally struggle with in my own life, so it really spoke to me.  When I was younger, I was lucky enough to be able to eat whatever I wanted and not gain an ounce.  Then my metabolism changed after college and I suddenly couldn't do that anymore, and a part of me, deep down, still feels that I shouldn't have to watch what I eat.  I should still be that child/teenager who could eat a huge meal and be fine.  But obviously I'm not that person anymore, and I have to fight against that instinct all the time.

Thanks, the same thing happened to me only my metabolism didn't start to change until my mid-30s then got even worse after menopause.  I struggle with it too that's why I wrote it and I recognized it in Whitney.   Only with her it's also that she's such a narcissist she doesn't think she should have to struggle with anything because she should be able to do whatever she wants without consequences.

I actually think it's harder for people like us because we are so ingrained with what we knew as "normal" when we were younger that it's always a conscious thing to remind ourselves that there's a new "normal" for us and it's very different than it was when we were younger.  Plus it is very hard at work and social gatherings to watch the skinniest people regularly eat portion sizes and types of food I can only eat in very small amounts without gaining weight anymore.  It does feel so unfair.  I hate to say that it extends to more than just food too.  As a woman, getting older comes with a whole list of things that are suddenly "not fair" anymore, such as the withdrawing of male attention and favor (the amount of which I obviously didn't even realize I had until it waned) among other things.  So if Whitney somehow makes it to her 50s she's going to have a LOT more to get over and move beyond if she's going to stay sane and not become a bitter old woman.  If she thinks life is unfair NOW just wait, sister!

Edited August 15, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

Thanks, the same thing happened to me only my metabolism didn't start to change until my mid-30s then got even worse after menopause.  I struggle with it too that's why I wrote it and I recognized it in Whitney.   Only with her it's also that she's such a narcissist she doesn't think she should have to struggle with anything because she should be able to do whatever she wants without consequences.

I actually think it's harder for people like us because we are so ingrained with what we knew as "normal" when we were younger that it's always a conscious thing to remind ourselves that there's a new "normal" for us and it's very different than it was when we were younger.  Plus it is very hard at work and social gatherings to watch the skinniest people regularly eat portion sizes and types of food I can only eat in very small amounts without gaining weight anymore.  It does feel so unfair.  I hate to say that it extends to more than just food too.  As a woman, getting older comes with a whole list of things that are suddenly "not fair" anymore, such as the withdrawing of male attention and favor (the amount of which I obviously didn't even realize I had until it waned) among other things.  So if Whitney somehow makes it to her 50s she's going to have a LOT more to get over and move beyond if she's going to stay sane and not become a bitter old woman.  If she thinks life is unfair NOW just wait, sister!

This is an interesting perspective. As I've mentioned before, I've been either over weight or obese since I was 2yrs old. I'm currently on the "high end" of my normal and want to get down to the "low end" of my normal which is a BMI of about 28, so still over weight but manageable (I'm 5"7, and 30 for stats). In a lot of ways being "fat" is the same as having brown skin, it just is. I have NEVER been thin and probably will never be, but I think I'm more comfortable with my body than women who were once thin and gained weight with age. 

Yes ive had fleeting moments where I wondered what it would've been like to go through life without the descriptor of "fat" and my eye roll moments where I didn't understand why because I was YOUNG people expected me to be thin for some reason (that one really annoys me) but hell thats life. I just want to be the best me I can be. Yes I struggle with food but it's not the worst thing. Maybe because I've always been a outlier I never expected to meet social expectations in that way. It reminds me of the Chris Rock joke "the only people with good self esteem are fat black women", I think that women who've never fit social expectations of beauty we don't lose anything because we never "lost" that favor so to speak. 

[PhereNicae1]

12 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

 If she thinks life is unfair NOW just wait, sister!

well, how is somebodys aging worse of a challenge then PCOS and having hormones out of whac to start with? I mean I get where you are coming from, but losing your hair at places on your head and having to shave your face and chin....is pretty "unfair"..(As a woman with PCOS I dont tend to use that word, because it makes no sense and I would probably just be angry all day long.)

[Snarklepuss]

20 minutes ago, PhereNicae1 said:

well, how is somebodys aging worse of a challenge then PCOS and having hormones out of whac to start with? I mean I get where you are coming from, but losing your hair at places on your head and having to shave your face and chin....is pretty "unfair"..(As a woman with PCOS I dont tend to use that word, because it makes no sense and I would probably just be angry all day long.)

Well even Whitney's medical issues will get worse as she ages.  She will definitely become diabetic past 40 or 50 even if she loses 100 lbs.  Our bodies become more susceptible to diabetes as we age (esp. past menopause in women), and with Whitney's weight and history she's doomed to it unless she loses some radical weight soon.  The clock is ticking for her for that and cholesterol.  That is age related too.  Our metabolisms slow down - Even Whitney's will just by virtue of getting older.  Some women's hair thins as they get older.  My best friend is now considering wigs it's that bad for her.  More medical conditions emerge that were not there when we were younger.  We have a higher risk of breast cancer, heart disease, all sorts of things.  Also, past 50 women suffer more job discrimination than men, etc.   Not to diminish conditions like PCOS, but getting older all by itself can be just as bad.

BTW, since my mid 20s I have had to shave my face and chin every day as it's too much to pluck.  Plus my legs were always hirsute - Saw a hormone doctor - he said it was just my "genetics" not PCOS or any hormonal imbalance.  I wonder about that as none of the women in my family ever had that condition.  Anyway, if she's wound up about how "unfair" the hand she has been dealt is, just wait, it's going to get worse.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[PhereNicae1]

55 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

Well even Whitney's medical issues will get worse as she ages.  She will definitely become diabetic past 40 or 50 even if she loses 100 lbs.  Our bodies become more susceptible to diabetes as we age (esp. past menopause in women), and with Whitney's weight and history she's doomed to it unless she loses some radical weight soon.  The clock is ticking for her for that and cholesterol.  That is age related too.  Our metabolisms slow down - Even Whitney's will just by virtue of getting older.  Some women's hair thins as they get older.  My best friend is now considering wigs it's that bad for her.  More medical conditions emerge that were not there when we were younger.  We have a higher risk of breast cancer, heart disease, all sorts of things.  Also, past 50 women suffer more job discrimination than men, etc.   Not to diminish conditions like PCOS, but getting older all by itself can be just as bad.

BTW, since my mid 20s I have had to shave my face and chin every day as it's too much to pluck.  Plus my legs were always hirsute - Saw a hormone doctor - he said it was just my "genetics" not PCOS or any hormonal imbalance.  I wonder about that as none of the women in my family ever had that condition.  Anyway, if she's wound up about how "unfair" the hand she has been dealt is, just wait, it's going to get worse.

yes, you are right, but I kinda count on the possiblity she will lose weight soon. Idk ..thats the scenario I hope for and I think she can do it. Just 1 thing - yes, PCOS sometimes gets better with age, I know its sounds weird, because diabetes definitely gets worse..But yes, its no exception for women with PCOS to concieve at 37 after their whole youth of infetility. There is a whole body of data showing that. Just statistics.

To be honest, I struggle to have as much  compassion for usual women (who have had children. they had that chance! I mean, isnt that the ultimate "unfairness" to not be able to do it?) and then expreince post-menopause changes like hairiness, baldness. Life is tough, I have been hairy and losing hair since the onset of PCOS at 14 and I know its going to get worse..But it never bothered me as much as the infertility.. And i definitely dont think the cosmetic flaws are harder for post-menopause women, when I dealt with it mentally as a teenager, its doable.

Btw I know Whitney doesnt speak about infertility, she seems to have blocked it out...but she still expreiences it. Honestly, for me it has been a root of a lot of resentment towards people, and not listening to them at all. You know what I mean? Its like "you won this genetic lottery of being able to procreate and Im just a dead end of evolution. You rock your children on your knees and I have a cat. You have no right to tell me anything". I see myself in Whitney a lot and I think there probably is a sentiment like that, that makes her disregard other peoples opinions and that  whole unfairness talk. You dont publicly speak about something like that, it hurts too bad.

Just my thought on this :)

[Scarlett45]

38 minutes ago, PhereNicae1 said:

yes, you are right, but I kinda count on the possiblity she will lose weight soon. Idk ..thats the scenario I hope for and I think she can do it. Just 1 thing - yes, PCOS sometimes gets better with age, I know its sounds weird, because diabetes definitely gets worse..But yes, its no exception for women with PCOS to concieve at 37 after their whole youth of infetility. There is a whole body of data showing that. Just statistics.

To be honest, I struggle to have as much  compassion for usual women (who have had children. they had that chance! I mean, isnt that the ultimate "unfairness" to not be able to do it?) and then expreince post-menopause changes like hairiness, baldness. Life is tough, I have been hairy and losing hair since the onset of PCOS at 14 and I know its going to get worse..But it never bothered me as much as the infertility.. And i definitely dont think the cosmetic flaws are harder for post-menopause women, when I dealt with it mentally as a teenager, its doable.

Btw I know Whitney doesnt speak about infertility, she seems to have blocked it out...but she still expreiences it. Honestly, for me it has been a root of a lot of resentment towards people, and not listening to them at all. You know what I mean? Its like "you won this genetic lottery of being able to procreate and Im just a dead end of evolution. You rock your children on your knees and I have a cat. You have no right to tell me anything". I see myself in Whitney a lot and I think there probably is a sentiment like that, that makes her disregard other peoples opinions and that  whole unfairness talk. You dont publicly speak about something like that, it hurts too bad.

Just my thought on this :)

Whitney might not feel it's appropriate to speak about the effects of PCOS on her fertility because she's not actively trying to get pregnant at this time so that's not a primary concern for her. She may not even want children down the line and thus it's not "fair" to talk about how PCOS effects someone trying to conceive. Not that's she is discounting the struggles other women have but that's not her story to tell if that makes sense. 

Not to discount your (or anyone's) struggle with infertility (((((hugs))))), but there are some women who aren't concerned. Whether they are decidedly Childfree (like me) or it just "never happened" for them and they haven't felt the need to pursue parenthood via other means. 

[ClareWalks]

46 minutes ago, PhereNicae1 said:

Btw I know Whitney doesnt speak about infertility, she seems to have blocked it out...but she still expreiences it. Honestly, for me it has been a root of a lot of resentment towards people, and not listening to them at all. You know what I mean? Its like "you won this genetic lottery of being able to procreate and Im just a dead end of evolution. You rock your children on your knees and I have a cat. You have no right to tell me anything". I see myself in Whitney a lot and I think there probably is a sentiment like that, that makes her disregard other peoples opinions and that  whole unfairness talk. You dont publicly speak about something like that, it hurts too bad.

I'm sorry about your infertility issues. I won't speak to PCOS specifically since I don't have it (although I do have polycystic ovaries, my issues were more about uterine lining being paper-thin), but infertility is the WORST. I totally ached when I read what you said because it is so true. The "maybe you weren't meant to have kids" comments are so terrible because it's like "so you're saying MY genetics are so horrific that God doesn't want them passed on, but YOU can have four kids? Thanks, asshole!" And "just adopt," like that is a cure for infertility. Infertility is like a secret club that everyone "gets" each other but nobody wants to be a member of this damn club! I was eventually able to have my son after taking tamoxifen, an HCG injection and my 7th IUI at a top fertility clinic, but it is crazy expensive and still the luck of the draw every month and many fertile people do not understand how lucky they are. 

TL;DR: Hugs and I am sorry for your struggle with all that hormonal garbage :(

[PhereNicae1]

2 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I'm sorry about your infertility issues. I won't speak to PCOS specifically since I don't have it (although I do have polycystic ovaries, my issues were more about uterine lining being paper-thin), but infertility is the WORST. I totally ached when I read what you said because it is so true. The "maybe you weren't meant to have kids" comments are so terrible because it's like "so you're saying MY genetics are so horrific that God doesn't want them passed on, but YOU can have four kids? Thanks, asshole!" And "just adopt," like that is a cure for infertility. Infertility is like a secret club that everyone "gets" each other but nobody wants to be a member of this damn club! I was eventually able to have my son after taking tamoxifen, an HCG injection and my 7th IUI at a top fertility clinic, but it is crazy expensive and still the luck of the draw every month and many fertile people do not understand how lucky they are. 

TL;DR: Hugs and I am sorry for your struggle with all that hormonal garbage :(

thank you for understanding! and congratulations on your son!!:)

[ClareWalks]

6 minutes ago, PhereNicae1 said:

thank you for understanding! and congratulations on your son!!:)

Of course! And thanks! :) These are the moments where I like the Small Talk thread, LOL

[ClareWalks]

Take notes, Whit, THIS is "fat and fit."

[Ketzel]

13 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Take notes, Whit, THIS is "fat and fit."

But I bet she can't twerk like Whitney can.

[Tosia]

Do they give Olympic medals for twerking?  :)

[Ketzel]

No, I think it's just a demonstration sport at the moment. But the minute it becomes a full-fledged medal opportunity . . . TLC and Whitney will be there with a fake semi-final that she wins, but hurts herself in the process,  so she can't compete in the final. :-)

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

Take notes, Whit, THIS is "fat and fit."

I was just coming here to say now SHE is a good role model for this no bs movement. I would love to watch a show about a real athlete like Sarah Robles.

Whit is sad and pathetic, and its truly a trainwreck. Nothing fabulous about being a mean bully and not being able to put on your shoes. But an Olympian?? FAB!!!!

[Toaster Strudel]

Also Michelle Carter... another great role model for "fat & fit"

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetorch/2016/08/13/489874745/michelle-carter-wins-team-usas-first-gold-in-womens-shot-put

It IS possible... it's just not what Whitney is doing despite her claims.

For all my negative feelings about Whitney, at the end of the day she is a terrific what-not-to-do role model and I am indebted to her for my new resolve to lose weight.  It was illuminating to see that some of her behaviors were like mine, and became motivated to change.

[Madding crowd]

22 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

think people are more critical of food addiction because for most people food is something that they can and do manage without becoming addicted so the attitude is "well millions of people can eat in a "normal" way why can't you? What's WRONG with you that a necessary thing for living (eating) is killing you?"  Where as with other addictions it's a "oh yes well everyone knows it's hard to quit that" type of attitude. 

 

Since food is essential to live though, people can't just leave it out of their lives. People addicted to alcohol or drugs can stay away from places where these things will be, you can't do that with food. Even if you are good with food you will find yourself at weddings, parties of all kinds, vacations, work situations like lunches or in office events etc. It is hard to lose and keep weight off. I also don't believe thin people are constantly managing or analyzing every bite they eat. A few maybe, but most no. I was very thin my whole life until around age 45 when I developed hypothyroidism, spinal stenosis and other health problems that caused the weight to pile on. I was always active but I never did things like count calories or really manage anything before. 

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Since food is essential to live though, people can't just leave it out of their lives. People addicted to alcohol or drugs can stay away from places where these things will be, you can't do that with food. Even if you are good with food you will find yourself at weddings, parties of all kinds, vacations, work situations like lunches or in office events etc. It is hard to lose and keep weight off. I also don't believe thin people are constantly managing or analyzing every bite they eat. A few maybe, but most no. I was very thin my whole life until around age 45 when I developed hypothyroidism, spinal stenosis and other health problems that caused the weight to pile on. I was always active but I never did things like count calories or really manage anything before. 

Right which is why weight loss is so hard. Food is everywhere. 

 

Theres a joke, if you want to know the amount of calories in something ask an model/actress or a big girl. ? The "typical" thin person just has never had to think about these things so they don't understand why someone else would.

I think we are agreeing with each other.