Spoilers With Speculation

[Wynne88]

45 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

What Showalter finds disappointing from a production standpoint . . . 

What did he say?  I must have missed that.

[Jonesy]

1 hour ago, Wynne88 said:

What did he say?  I must have missed that.

I think that was misinterpreted--imo Showalter was just talking about the final episode would be without the full cast and crew to fully celebrate the end...and not that the finale was effected horribly.  I expect a big epic finale despite whatever changes were made--they are not letting 15 years end without really going for it.  With regards to Jensen and the ending--he honestly said at first wasn't sure concerning the ending then later was honestly positive towards the finale...going by his own words--and why would Jensen revisit the show?--because he loves it and the people involved.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Jakes

[Jonesy]

More and more I am say 80% sure Misha/Cas is in the finale...Misha's silence and ambiguity the last few weeks screams it(as did Jake Abel's joke about it) and it dovetails to Misha previously saying he was in the end scenes...not only do I remember that but a ton of others remember Misha saying that too--so I wasn't imagining that.   Interesting while they were filming that big 3 day scene Misha tweeted a glorious nature shot...saying this is a day could believe in God--just a curious little aside.  Regardless I got a super strong vibe Cas is in the finale in some form or fashion.

So I think Cas dies in 18 after that emotional  Dean/Cas scene--sacrificing for the boys and looks to be his final exit but it isn't...hence hiding Misha to bring a surprise in 20.  Now is it just a goodbye, resurrection or what--that's a big unknown.  Kripke gave a message about the last day of filming today and ends by quoting Kim Manner with "kick it in the ass"(same thing Jim Beaver said today) then tags Jensen, Jared and Misha.

We'll see soon if i'm right about Cas in the finale or not--I think it's the case.  So right or wrong--book me as on the Cas will be in the finale side.  

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Jakes

[S Cook Productions]

23 minutes ago, Jakes said:

More and more I am say 80% sure Misha/Cas is in the finale...Misha's silence and ambiguity the last few weeks screams it(as did Jake Abel's joke about it) and it dovetails to Misha previously saying he was in the end scenes...not only do I remember that but a ton of others remember Misha saying that too--so I wasn't imagining that.   Interesting while they were filming that big 3 day scene Misha tweeted a glorious nature shot...saying this is a day could believe in God--just a curious little aside.  Regardless I got a super strong vibe Cas is in the finale in some form or fashion.

So I think Cas dies in 18 after that emotional  Dean/Cas scene--sacrificing for the boys and looks to be his final exit but it isn't...hence hiding Misha to bring a surprise in 20.  Now is it just a goodbye, resurrection or what--that's a big unknown.  Kripke gave a message about the last day of filming today and ends by quoting Kim Manner with "kick it in the ass"(same thing Jim Beaver said today) then tags Jensen, Jared and Misha.

We'll see soon if i'm right about Cas in the finale or not--I think it's the case.  So right or wrong--book me as on the Cas will be in the finale side.  

 

I am cautiously optimistic, as well, for all the reasons you state. :)

 

Also, I just can't see Bobby being in the finale but not Cas.

 

I think it might be ONE LAST surprise resurrection lol.

[gonzosgirrl]

Jensen's Instagram. He say these are shots from the final days, including today. And he is in/with the car, and not lovoking particularly dead, or even beat up. I have no idea what to make of these.  Though obviously the one with his tatt showing isn't part of the scene(s).

 

 

[Terese]

5 hours ago, Jakes said:

I think that was misinterpreted--imo Showalter was just talking about the final episode would be without the full cast and crew to fully celebrate the end...and not that the finale was effected horribly.  I expect a big epic finale despite whatever changes were made--they are not letting 15 years end without really going for it.  With regards to Jensen and the ending--he honestly said at first wasn't sure concerning the ending then later was honestly positive towards the finale...going by his own words--and why would Jensen revisit the show?--because he loves it and the people involved.

If Jensen had been turned around to a more positive outlook, why would he feel the need to publicly walk the viewers through his agonizing 2 weeks of unacceptable? 

[Jonesy]

3 hours ago, Terese said:

If Jensen had been turned around to a more positive outlook, why would he feel the need to publicly walk the viewers through his agonizing 2 weeks of unacceptable? 

He said he turned around on the finale.  Other than saying they had to change things around some because of virus...he's been positive about the show the last few weeks in my clear view of it.

[Terese]

33 minutes ago, Jakes said:

He said he turned around on the finale.  Other than saying they had to change things around some because of virus...he's been positive about the show the last few weeks in my clear view of it.

I think we may be misunderstanding each other's context. Or mostly me misunderstanding yours. I was referencing Jensen's reaction to how the show was to end, from a year ago, regarding the finale. He let the viewers know that he had been struggling with how the show was to be concluded. Expressed how he sought counsel, went to Kripke etc to wrap his head around it. Then he said he found it to be a good ending.

I simply found it odd that he would alert the viewers of his struggles if he ultimately embraced the final story closure. I still find it concerning, even though he became more positive. If he was eventually ok with it, why say anything about his 2 week struggle. Just say it's a good ending and leave it at that.

 

[Terese]

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

He said he turned around on the finale.  Other than saying they had to change things around some because of virus...he's been positive about the show the last few weeks in my clear view of it.

Hey Jakes,

Sorry, I shouldn't let my apprehension rain on your parade. Everything will probably be fine.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Terese

[Aeryn13]

The way Jensen came around on the Finale by his own description never seened very enthusiastic to me. His first reaction was one thing and he had to be talked around and basically convinced himself it was good. 

As someone who has done this to myself once or twice, it never truly works and at some point either the illusion fully breaks and the gut feeling comes back full-force or at least it always simmers underneath. Hence, I stopped talking myself into liking things. Either that happens naturally or it doesn't. 

Not to mention he still said he hoped people would mull it over. Big warning sign of him at least thinking the initial reaction will be negative. 

Personally, I've now almost come to believe both die. Now, if so, he might think that more of a negative than it ends up being. I'd say it depends. People could be satisfied with them dying IMO, depending on the how and the legacy acknowledgment. 

[Bergamot]

I saw this picture online, and someone said on Twitter that they are dressed the same as they were in the pilot, when they were on the bridge in that episode. Also the Impala has her original license plate. I don't know what, if anything, this means, though.

[Aeryn13]

3 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

I saw this picture online, and someone said on Twitter that they are dressed the same as they were in the pilot, when they were on the bridge in that episode. Also the Impala has her original license plate. I don't know what, if anything, this means, though.

In that case, I definitely think both are dead because no way can they pull off pretending they time-traveled back to the Pilot. Even for Jensen that would be a stretch, Jared looks completely different to hoodie College kid.

Would be weird if that was their "best day" heaven, though. Unless their "heaven" would be restarting and reliving the entire show over and over again. Which would be certifiably insane.

Over on Arrow the lead at least got to be a godlike being and live happily with his wife in the afterlife. 

[Bergamot]

12 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

In that case, I definitely think both are dead because no way can they pull off pretending they time-traveled back to the Pilot. Even for Jensen that would be a stretch, Jared looks completely different to hoodie College kid.

True! Also, maybe it is just the light in the photo, but do Jensen and Jared have a little grey in their hair?

[Aeryn13]

4 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

True! Also, maybe it is just the light in the photo, but do Jensen and Jared have a little grey in their hair?

I think they have naturally and the lighting just highlights it. It doesn't look aged up to me at least. So if they die, the characters die at their current age.

[Terese]

13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

In that case, I definitely think both are dead because no way can they pull off pretending they time-traveled back to the Pilot. Even for Jensen that would be a stretch, Jared looks completely different to hoodie College kid.

Would be weird if that was their "best day" heaven, though. Unless their "heaven" would be restarting and reliving the entire show over and over again. Which would be certifiably insane.

Over on Arrow the lead at least got to be a godlike being and live happily with his wife in the afterlife. 

It could be a picture honoring the first episode. Remember when stuff. And they are doing a retrospective proceeding the finale. All concerned have been quite tight-lipped about all aspects of the finale. The trailers have also been deliberately misleading.

Try not to worry.

[ukgirl71]

Interesting idea!  It could also just be a nod to the pilot for the symmetry of it all.  We’ll see.

[Aeryn13]

27 minutes ago, Terese said:

It could be a picture honoring the first episode. Remember when stuff. And they are doing a retrospective proceeding the finale. All concerned have been quite tight-lipped about all aspects of the finale. The trailers have also been deliberately misleading.

Try not to worry.

Oh, I'm not particularly worried about if them dying. Or rather would not be bothered by it. There are a myriad of endings that could be worse to me. Of course the execution of how they die (if they do) could also be terrible.

I have one concern and one concern only for the ending of the show: how will Dean's character and legacy look when all is said and done.

[PAForrest]

43 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

True! Also, maybe it is just the light in the photo, but do Jensen and Jared have a little grey in their hair?

Jared's hair definitely looks like it has a little gray in the front - not convinced about Jensen's. Could be lighting, or could also have some gray at the temples. Hmmmm.

This definitely feels like a hereafter shot - someplace the two would meet after one or both of them die. If only one of them dies, it's probably Dean and he meets Sam on the bridge after he dies. One brother meeting the other after death - essentially The Vampire Diaries ending, which is what has been predicted for a while. That would be my first guess.

Second guess is they both live out their lives, get a little older, and after death they meet up at the same place. Either way, they're meeting up together on the bridge of their first case of the series. The car clearly has a license plate starting with a K - the original license plate.

Edited September 11, 2020 by PAForrest

[ILoveReading]

It does look like more gray than normal in both Jared and Jensen's hair.   Jensen looks like there is more gray at the temple.  Jared looks like he has a gray streak.    So I tend to lean toward both brothers alive.  I'm leaning toward Jack creating Lollipop Land with the brothers going their separate  ways and them meeting up in Heaven after they die. 

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

It does look like more gray than normal in both Jared and Jensen's hair.   Jensen looks like there is more gray at the temple.  Jared looks like he has a gray streak.    So I tend to lean toward both brothers alive.  I'm leaning toward Jack creating Lollipop Land with the brothers going their separate  ways and them meeting up in Heaven after they die. 

But the aging is so minimal, it would imply they died three to fours years after Lollipop world. Which would kinda ruin the effect of such a thing.

If you want to do that, you show them really old and grey and then young again when they meet up in heaven.

[ILoveReading]

47 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But the aging is so minimal, it would imply they died three to fours years after Lollipop world. Which would kinda ruin the effect of such a thing.

If you want to do that, you show them really old and grey and then young again when they meet up in heaven.

It's Dabb.  I don't think he's concerned with realism. 

[Aeryn13]

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

It's Dabb.  I don't think he's concerned with realism. 

I know but the very fact that Bobby is there, likely as a "welcome to heaven" guide, does tell me Dabb will go for as trite and cliché as possible. So if he went that route, I`m convinced he would give at least Sam a long happy life with Eileen and a big family and aging prostetics make-up to make it seem like he died in his 80s, not just a little gray streak. I honestly think they both have a bit of gray in their hair now and if the light hits it just right (or wrong), it becomes more pronounced.   

[SueB]

With Bobby back, and other little tidbits, I think there's a final scene where they ARE in heaven.  With a little grey in their hair to imply their best days were yet to come if that's the age they think of themselves when dead.  But it leaves open filling in the blanks between what we see (reunion in Heaven) and where we end the action (now time, both alive).  

Or not.  

Because all we know for sure is that the boys appear together in the final scene. Heaven, hell, alternate universe, or just another day...something....

Edited September 11, 2020 by SueB

[Casseiopeia]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

With Bobby back, and other little tidbits, I think there's a final scene where they ARE in heaven.  With a little grey in their hair to imply their best days were yet to come if that's the age they think of themselves when dead.  But it leaves open filling in the blanks between what we see (reunion in Heaven) and where we end the action (now time, both alive).  

Or not.  

Because all we know for sure is that the boys appear together in the final scene. Heaven, hell, alternate universe, or just another day...something....

I saw a theory that maybe Bobby ends up being God or the souls take charge of heaven.

[ahrtee]

58 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I saw a theory that maybe Bobby ends up being God or the souls take charge of heaven.

I take it that Bobby has gotten out of heaven's prison?  

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I take it that Bobby has gotten out of heaven's prison?  

Maybe that is the finale.  They both die and rescuse Bobby from Heaven's prison.

[Bergamot]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

The way Jensen came around on the Finale by his own description never seened very enthusiastic to me. His first reaction was one thing and he had to be talked around and basically convinced himself it was good. 

Yeah, I tend to believe that Jensen's instincts are good and that he had a very valid reason for his initial reaction.To me, the fact that he talked about it so openly shows that there was something quite specific that he didn't like about it, not just a general feeling of not wanting everything to end, or whatever. I think he just decided to let it go and live with it.

I mean, what else could he do? He saw that everyone else was okay with the idea, he talked with Kripke, he talked with Singer (but not, interestingly, with Dabb -- make of that what you will). Everyone on the show, and the fans as well, wanted to spend this last part of the last season enjoying and honoring the legacy of the show. From everything I have seen of Jensen, it is not in his nature to sit around with a grumpy face saying repeatedly, "I still don't like this!" No one will convince me, though, that what happened is that he realized he was wrong. I think he just decided to accept it. I also think that it is likely we will never know.

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Oh, I'm not particularly worried about if them dying.

LOL, me neither! And honestly, there are too many things in real life to worry about right now, for me to stress out about the show. However, precisely because real life is so bleak and stressful right now, is why I wish we did have more hints to speculate about in regard to what is going to happen.

Considering that we are just weeks away from the show's big finale, it is sad to me how little there is to talk about. (And sorry, but I have to admit I couldn't care less what episodes Castiel does or doesn't show up in, or what will happen to Jack and Lucifer in the end.) Spoiler speculation is fun! And I could use some fun right now. That's why I have been studying this picture and trying to think what it might mean. Not because I am worrying. 

Anyway, I have stared at the picture intently enough that for now, anyway, I have convinced myself both of them definitely have some extra grey in their hair. 😄  Still don't know what it might mean, but I do like to think that it is a hint that whatever happens, Dean and Sam share the same fate. And I think I would prefer that.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Bergamot

[ukgirl71]

I enjoy speculating too Bergamot 😀  In my head, the grey hair is there because the last scene takes place a few years later.

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

From everything I have seen of Jensen, it is not in his nature to sit around with a grumpy face saying repeatedly, "I still don't like this!" No one will convince me, though, that what happened is that he realized he was wrong. I think he just decided to accept it. I also think that it is likely we will never know.

I agree with this 100% 

I'd even agree that maybe is why he's not shy about floating the idea of revisiting it down the road (as someone else here suggested, forgive me for not finding it - on my phone): fixing whatever Badd fucks up, hopefully with Badd nowhere near it. I just keep going back to the Inside of You interview and his hopes for Dean's legacy, and he didn't seem 'down' about it. It's my tiny glimmer of hope.

Edited September 11, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Casseiopeia]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Would be weird if that was their "best day" heaven, though. Unless their "heaven" would be restarting and reliving the entire show over and over again. Which would be certifiably insane.

That made me laugh.  They become fans of the show and binge watch over and over....

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Casseiopeia

[Jonesy]

12 hours ago, Terese said:

Hey Jakes,

Sorry, I shouldn't let my apprehension rain on your parade. Everything will probably be fine.

Thanks--no problem.   To me--Jensen was just open about his thoughts on the finale, talking to Kripke and coming to like the ending.  That said--in the end each one of us will decide for ourselves if we like the finale.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Jakes

[Bobcatkitten]

So I have a theory that the reason they are dressed like when they are younger, gray hair and the original license plate is that this is Dean's heaven - growing old doing milk runs with his brother Sam. Just like in the beginning before all the angels/apocalypse/god stuff. Rolling into town - saving people, hunting things - and then moving on. There is a random vampire listed in the last episode that could be just a normal old hunt with them together. 

Maybe it will even be most of the episode with us thinking they are just on a hunt but in the end it will be Dean's heaven. 

[Jonesy]

The latest TV Guide has a short Fall TV sneak peak and talks about Supernatural.  The part that stood out to me concerns the FINAL 2 EPISODES--they describe them a little differently than what we heard before:

 

"The penultimate offering wraps up the main storylines, while the series finale titled "Carry On" a nod to the song that's become the show's unofficial anthem--ties up the personal threads."

 

TV Guide ais one of the best sources for SPN info--so I buy their description.  So the finale will be tying up the personal threads mainly after the previous episode deals with God, the Archangels and the such.  So this tells me no way Cas isn't in this as part of tying up the personal threads(put his being there now up to at least 95%)--and why Bobby is there AND no doubt Jack will be too(know most here are not Jack fans--i'm fine with him and I think he's popular overall).

How they tie up the personal threads and who dies and who goes where--that's the mystery.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Jakes

[Aeryn13]

22 minutes ago, Jakes said:

The latest TV Guide has a short Fall TV sneak peak and talks about Supernatural.  The part that stood out to me concerns the FINAL 2 EPISODES--they describe them a little differently than what we heard before:

 

"The penultimate offering wraps up the main storylines, while the series finale titled "Carry On" a nod to the song that's become the show's unofficial anthem--ties up the personal threads."

 

TV Guide ais one of the best sources for SPN info--so I buy their description.  So the finale will be tying up the personal threads mainly after the previous episode deals with God, the Archangels and the such.  So this tells me no way Cas isn't in this as part of tying up the personal threads(put his being there now up to at least 95%)--and why Bobby is there AND no doubt Jack will be too(know most here are not Jack fans--i'm fine with him and I think he's popular overall).

How they tie up the personal threads and who dies and who goes where--that's the mystery.

Cas could be included in the Finale without new footage, though. The episode could be an emotional goodbye with flashbacks or a montage.

I don’t see why there would be a big secrecy about him being there. Why hide his involvement? He is not a guest star or a big surprise. They could have made clear he is up in Vancouver from the start. 

Even if they wanted to tease a final death in ep 18, they haven't come out yet and spoiled that either. And by the time the episode airs, I assume there will be a final trailer either way.

They were pretty candid about making it clear that the entire God thing wraps up in 19, even that Pellegrino is back came out.

I don’t  see why "is Castiel in the Series Finale" would be this big untouchable mystery for the show and all the actors/crew are teehee-ing to hide his presence. I would have no problem if he is, after the brothers he is the one who was in most episodes. Certainly more than Jackie-poo who probably darkens the ep.

 

[Jonesy]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Cas could be included in the Finale without new footage, though. The episode could be an emotional goodbye with flashbacks or a montage.

I don’t see why there would be a big secrecy about him being there. Why hide his involvement? He is not a guest star or a big surprise. They could have made clear he is up in Vancouver from the start. 

Even if they wanted to tease a final death in ep 18, they haven't come out yet and spoiled that either. And by the time the episode airs, I assume there will be a final trailer either way.

They were pretty candid about making it clear that the entire God thing wraps up in 19, even that Pellegrino is back came out.

I don’t  see why "is Castiel in the Series Finale" would be this big untouchable mystery for the show and all the actors/crew are teehee-ing to hide his presence. I would have no problem if he is, after the brothers he is the one who was in most episodes. Certainly more than Jackie-poo who probably darkens the ep.

 

Well multiple reason including Misha said in the past he was in the final scenes.  But I really DO think they kill Cas in a splashy big way in 18 and do want to keep it a secret if he's really in it.   Any mystery or ambiguity is a good thing.  I expect them to keep it close to the vest until the end.   I give further reason earlier in this thread--I do sense this big time.  Now if i'm wrong we will certainly see--i'm on the record he's there.   Tying up personal threads...Cas will be a part of that.

Now the big question from my perspective is in what way...most likely he stays dead but gets final interactions with the boys.  Could he resurrect--I wish!  I only give that a 10 percent chance.

[PAForrest]

32 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don’t see why there would be a big secrecy about him being there. Why hide his involvement? He is not a guest star or a big surprise. They could have made clear he is up in Vancouver from the start. 

Even if they wanted to tease a final death in ep 18, they haven't come out yet and spoiled that either. And by the time the episode airs, I assume there will be a final trailer either way.

They were pretty candid about making it clear that the entire God thing wraps up in 19, even that Pellegrino is back came out.

I don’t  see why "is Castiel in the Series Finale" would be this big untouchable mystery for the show and all the actors/crew are teehee-ing to hide his presence. I would have no problem if he is, after the brothers he is the one who was in most episodes. Certainly more than Jackie-poo who probably darkens the ep.

Yeah, it really doesn't make any sense to hide whether or not Misha went back to Vancouver to film SPN. After all, the lion's share of the viewing audience - even online audience - don't really keep up with spoilers and have no idea his character might die in episode 18. And like you said, we don't even know that for sure, it's not like that's actually been spoiled, it's just *fan* speculation. Even if Cas dies, literally anyone who has been with this show any number of years knows everybody comes back, so it would hardly be a surprise if he did. It would legit be more of a surprise if he didn't.

So why make only Misha some super secret return when Pellegrino happily spoiled his character's return - and Lucille is supposed to be dead too, by the by.

I'm not saying Cas isn't in the last two episodes - probably is, but to be honest, I have no feeling one way or the other as to what happens with his character. My concern is what happens to the Winchesters.

Edited September 11, 2020 by PAForrest

[ukgirl71]

Would there be any reason why he couldn’t have filmed his finale seasons out of sequence, before lockdown, in anticipation of his hip op?

[Jonesy]

44 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Yeah, it really doesn't make any sense to hide whether or not Misha went back to Vancouver to film SPN. After all, the lion's share of the viewing audience - even online audience - don't really keep up with spoilers and have no idea his character might die in episode 18. And like you said, we don't even know that for sure, it's not like that's actually been spoiled, it's just *fan* speculation. Even if Cas dies, literally anyone who has been with this show any number of years knows everybody comes back, so it would hardly be a surprise if he did. It would legit be more of a surprise if he didn't.

So why make only Misha some super secret return when Pellegrino happily spoiled his character's return - and Lucille is supposed to be dead too, by the by.

I'm not saying Cas isn't in the last two episodes - probably is, but to be honest, I have no feeling one way or the other as to what happens with his character. My concern is what happens to the Winchesters.

Maybe it makes no sense--but I sense they are hiding him with Misha's vagueness recently, Abel and others joking about the issue and Misha months ago saying he was in finale scenes AND also Misha recently in interview saying going back for the last episodes(19 and 20) will be like a reunion with goodbyes and hugs to be given.  Who knows--SPN doesn't always makes sense.  Hey if i'm wrong, i'd be the first to say I blew it.   But my firm bet is Cas is in the finale.

But let me be clear--the finale will certainly be mostly about Dean and Sam for sure AND rightly so.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Jakes

[Aeryn13]

29 minutes ago, ukgirl71 said:

Would there be any reason why he couldn’t have filmed his finale seasons out of sequence, before lockdown, in anticipation of his hip op?

Sure, they could have easily filmed a scene or two earlier. At least a studio scene. The final scene is on location so that would likely be a no-go since those inserts look inorganic and awkward. 

I guess it`s also possible that Cas was supposed to be in the Finale but that was one of the parts that had to be rewritten. Maybe for health reasons Misha couldn`t make it work at this time.

Right now I tend to lean on "he didn`t film any footage for 19 and 20 because episode 18 will be a big Cas episode and his last hurrah" but regardless I could easily see Cas included via flashback/montage, making him technically "be" in the Finale. 

Normally I don`t think he would be excluded on purpose as I don`t think any of the producers has beef with Misha like that but if they give him episode 18 and basically make that like a little mini-Finale, pretty much devoted to Cas and resolve emotional attachments as well, that`s kinda even a better deal than just playing sidekick in the Finale.   

[gonzosgirrl]

Jensen has said on at least two occasions now that 19 was a season finale and 20 a series finale. How is the TV guide thing new information? 

 

[bethy]

For me, if there’s some big “reveal” about Cas in the final episode, I’m going to be peeved. Because that would shift focus away from Dean and Sam and onto whatever “gotcha” they were going for with Cas. I am and always have been here for the Winchesters, and I haven’t ever found Cas to be as important to the story or as interesting a character as others do. So I’m thrilled that there’s actually some chance Misha hasn’t been filming and Cas may not show up in the finale or maybe only for some small part. 

Hearing it may possibly be some sort of stunt makes me all “grrrr.” 🙂

[gonzosgirrl]

Right there with you @bethy. Castiel has his place in the story, of course but the finale should be about the brothers. Going so far as to hide the actor for some big reveal would be over the top, IMO.  I just hope his only reason for being in it isn't to beat up Dean again, emotionally or physically. Dean has learned enough 'lessons'.

[PAForrest]

57 minutes ago, ukgirl71 said:

Would there be any reason why he couldn’t have filmed his finale seasons out of sequence, before lockdown, in anticipation of his hip op?

Yeah, that's possible. And even now they were going back and forth between the two episodes, 19 and 20. I'm guessing the COVID restrictions made it to where they had to get certain actors done and gone so they could focus on the next set.

23 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sure, they could have easily filmed a scene or two earlier. At least a studio scene. The final scene is on location so that would likely be a no-go since those inserts look inorganic and awkward. 

I guess it`s also possible that Cas was supposed to be in the Finale but that was one of the parts that had to be rewritten. Maybe for health reasons Misha couldn`t make it work at this time.

Right now I tend to lean on "he didn`t film any footage for 19 and 20 because episode 18 will be a big Cas episode and his last hurrah" but regardless I could easily see Cas included via flashback/montage, making him technically "be" in the Finale. 

Normally I don`t think he would be excluded on purpose as I don`t think any of the producers has beef with Misha like that but if they give him episode 18 and basically make that like a little mini-Finale, pretty much devoted to Cas and resolve emotional attachments as well, that`s kinda even a better deal than just playing sidekick in the Finale.   

No, there doesn't seem to have been any animosity toward Misha - I think they liked him well enough, and his character. Like I said, I'm just not getting a sense one way or the other where the hell they're going with his character. If he does die in 18 and goes to the Empty, that's a big storyline to have to tie up - the Empty, that is - on top of whatever they're going to do with Chuckles and Jackie Poo. There's very little time in two episodes to wrap all that up and give the Winchesters their final chance to shine, especially given changes that had to be made to the scripts.

My knee-jerk is that we were supposed to see Cas again - probably in Heaven - and if he's not there and they do nothing with the Empty, I'm guessing that is a result of changes to the final two episodes. I don't have any feeling what they're doing with Chuckles and Jackie Poo either. The network wouldn't let them kill "god" before - so they probably won't now. So what does that leave - he and Jackie Poo going off into the galaxy? I don't know.

Really the only little clues we're getting now is about Dean and Sam given the pictures we're seeing. I'm sure there will be increasing promotion and more trailers closer to the premiere in October - we might get a better sense then what might happen with these other characters. Or not.

[Terese]

1 minute ago, bethy said:

For me, if there’s some big “reveal” about Cas in the final episode, I’m going to be peeved. Because that would shift focus away from Dean and Sam and onto whatever “gotcha” they were going for with Cas. I am and always have been here for the Winchesters, and I haven’t ever found Cas to be as important to the story or as interesting a character as others do. So I’m thrilled that there’s actually some chance Misha hasn’t been filming and Cas may not show up in the finale or maybe only for some small part. 

Hearing it may possibly be some sort of stunt makes me all “grrrr.” 🙂

I think there was a time when Castiel's story and growth, dynamic with the Winchesters would have warranted a focused and meaningful end for him, even to the extent of having him in the finale.

Unfortunately, in the last 3 years, Castiel has merely served as a mouthpiece for the glory of Jack, serving no other purpose, as he moves further away from Sam and Dean. Even the actor looks and sounds weary whenever he has to utter some banality about believing in Jack or Jack's goodness.

[Aeryn13]

9 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Yeah, that's possible. And even now they were going back and forth between the two episodes, 19 and 20. I'm guessing the COVID restrictions made it to where they had to get certain actors done and gone so they could focus on the next set.

No, there doesn't seem to have been any animosity toward Misha - I think they liked him well enough, and his character. Like I said, I'm just not getting a sense one way or the other where the hell they're going with his character. If he does die in 18 and goes to the Empty, that's a big storyline to have to tie up - the Empty, that is - on top of whatever they're going to do with Chuckles and Jackie Poo. There's very little time in two episodes to wrap all that up and give the Winchesters their final chance to shine, especially given changes that had to be made to the scripts.

 

I think they will deal with the Empty in some way. Wasn`t "Billie" seen to devolve into some black goo in the last trailer? I think episode 18 will wrap up Cas and the Empty. And then everything moves on to Chuck, Michael and, sigh, Lucille. No idea what the Winchesters will do. Maybe look at them again, only this time, instead of in like Season 11 when they hosted both Chuck and Lucille at the bunker for a "family reunion", this time they will do it for a three-way?

Obviously, Jackie-poo remains the candidate for saving the day.    

 

Quote

Unfortunately, in the last 3 years, Castiel has merely served as a mouthpiece for the glory of Jack, serving no other purpose, as he moves further away from Sam and Dean. Even the actor looks and sounds weary whenever he has to utter some banality about believing in Jack or Jack's goodness. 

Completely agree with that. He became nothing but the salesman for their new Cousin Oliver and it turned me off the character almost completely. 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Terese]

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

I think they will deal with the Empty in some way. Wasn`t "Billie" seen to devolve into some black goo in the last trailer? I think episode 18 will wrap up Cas and the Empty. And then everything moves on to Chuck, Michael and, sigh, Lucille. No idea what the Winchesters will do. Maybe look at them again, only this time, instead of in like Season 11 when they hosted both Chuck and Lucille at the bunker for a "family reunion", this time they will do it for a three-way?

Obviously, Jackie-poo remains the candidate for saving the day.    

 

 

Yes, Billie's hand was morphing. Could be her original Death form or she is the Empty. As the Empty is frequently seen to impersonate others, could very well be.

[Jonesy]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Jensen has said on at least two occasions now that 19 was a season finale and 20 a series finale. How is the TV guide thing new information? 

 

Slight change in emphasis on saying the finale is about the personal threads being resolved--a series finale wouldn't necessarily just be concerning that imo...seems more narrowly focused.  Concerning opinion on Cas in finale and in general not surprised we strongly disagree...that's the par for the course since we agree on little concerning SPN--lol.   Which is also symbolic of our fractured fandom...we have strong opinions all over the place on the individual characters and the show in general.   Depending on what site you got to you get widely varying opinions especially on the characters.   To each their own!

[PAForrest]

15 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think they will deal with the Empty in some way. Wasn`t "Billie" seen to devolve into some black goo in the last trailer? I think episode 18 will wrap up Cas and the Empty. And then everything moves on to Chuck, Michael and, sigh, Lucille. No idea what the Winchesters will do...

Obviously, Jackie-poo remains the candidate for saving the day.    

****************************

Completely agree with that. He became nothing but the salesman for their new Cousin Oliver and it turned me off the character almost completely.

Honestly, showrunners have had trouble utilizing Cas since season six - that's the reality of it. They knew the actor/character was popular, but they've never known really what to do with him, and most of what they did over the years was bad. Hindsight being 20-20, Gamble had the right idea that he had to go - but she wanted him gone for disingenuous reasons and her send-off was dreadful. Of course, seeing what's happened since then, and especially in the Drabb years, even that looks inspired by contrast.

So there have been issues keeping Cas around since the end of season five, and then Drabb went and turned him into Asstiel whose only reason to continue to exist was to nurse Jackie Poo and screw over the Winchesters for Jack's sake, especially Dean. I hate that I'm leaving the show actively hoping a character I once really liked, but not longer do, does die in 18 and never reappears - because if he does, it won't have crap to do with the Winchesters. And at the end of the day, regardless of Drabb's personal feelings, this show should be, has to be, about the Winchesters.

So if the Empty is wrapped up in 18, then so should the angel's storyline be, whether it's sacrificing his existence for the greater good, or somehow being released back to Heaven - along with all the other angels stuck there - to do his job. If anything is truly accomplished with all these celestial beings, it should be that the angels stay in Heaven and the demons stay in Hell.

[S Cook Productions]

10 hours ago, Jakes said:

Slight change in emphasis on saying the finale is about the personal threads being resolved--a series finale wouldn't necessarily just be concerning that imo...seems more narrowly focused.  Concerning opinion on Cas in finale and in general not surprised we strongly disagree...that's the par for the course since we agree on little concerning SPN--lol.   Which is also symbolic of our fractured fandom...we have strong opinions all over the place on the individual characters and the show in general.   Depending on what site you got to you get widely varying opinions especially on the characters.   To each their own!

Amen to that. I actively come to this board because I’m genuinely interested in everyone’s POVs (even though I’m in the minority here). I’m on tumblr too which is a whole different ballgame. (I’m not on Twitter). Jakes is right, though, in pointing out that the whole “where’s Misha/Cas” debacle is a real thing whether it should be or not. 
 

it’s no secret that Cas is my fave character, and always has been since he was introduced in season 4; but I love Dean and Sam too (especially Dean). However, I do agree with most here that I really didn’t like the way Cas chose Jack over the Winchester’s. I didn’t mind Jack before he went dark side, but I definitely think Cas’ main priority should be the Winchester’s. I don’t believe his character was irreparably ruined like some here do- but I feel your frustration on that end. 
 

I go to one or two supernatural cons a year and there’s no question that Cas/Misha is super popular amongst that realm. So it stands to reason that there’s going to be some hubbub about what happens to him near the end. 
 

Lastly, I didn’t join the fandom live until season 8, so what happened with Sera/Misha? Can anyone go more into depth? Thanks. 
 

Also, I will so miss you guys if this board becomes inactive after the finale! 😞 

[catrox14]

If Misha's words mean anything (and sometimes he does troll fans), he said that he was happy with Castiel's ending, because it is final. In the past, Misha said he wants Cas to die sacrificing himself. If he's happy then I think Cas dies for Stupid Jack, in 18 or 19. I expect him to have a cameo in 20 as a final farewell to the boys. All of which could have been filmed before 20 and they edit it in.