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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)

I wonder if Sam/Eileen is end game with Dean dying. 

I'd actually be okay with that.  Because I think if Dean was alive he could never really have peace.  He'd always be expected to be something for someone.  If he can't go to Heaven Id like to see him go to purgatory and spend eternity hunting with Benny.

ETA:  Never mind the first tweet, it was about the Hillywood Parody.

Edited by ILoveReading
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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

This is not technically a spoiler but i'm posting it here since we know that Jared and Jensen know the ending. 

I don't know the full dialogue or the context, but given that they brought Eileen back, I feel like Eileen is Sam's happy ending.  But if Jensen just sobbed, (or pretended to) is this another clue s to Deans' death.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

This is not technically a spoiler but i'm posting it here since we know that Jared and Jensen know the ending. 

I don't know the full dialogue or the context, but given that they brought Eileen back, I feel like Eileen is Sam's happy ending.  But if Jensen just sobbed, (or pretended to) is this another clue s to Deans' death.

IDK. Doesn't Dean want to go out fighting.

ukgirl71

ukgirl71

So, given we know that death isn't necessarily a definite end in the Supernatural world, anything goes?  I'm not entirely sure they'll keep Eileen around, and yeah, Jensen wouldn't have been happy (we can assume) if one brother lived and the other died.  But, did I read correctly on twitter Jared commented about saying goodbye to Sam on April 5th, so at least we know when filming finishes?  If so, is that not quite late for a 20 ep season?

ILoveReading

ILoveReading

23 minutes ago, ukgirl71 said:

I'm not entirely sure they'll keep Eileen around,

Given the flack they got for the way they killed her off, I would be surprised if they killed her again.  I didn't see the last scene but someone told me it was framed as being romantic. 

Plus, if they wanted her dead, why bring her back.  They could have left her as a ghost.

26 minutes ago, ukgirl71 said:

But, did I read correctly on twitter Jared commented about saying goodbye to Sam on April 5th, so at least we know when filming finishes?  If so, is that not quite late for a 20 ep season?

I haven't had a chance to watch Misha's panel or the afternoon panel yet so I don't know the exact works or questions or context,  but Misha said the end is happier than he expected, and both happy and sad.  Jared said he hopes to say see you later to Sam, and Jensen (fake) sobbed.

While that could support a number of scenarios it supports my theory of Sam and Eileen being end game, with Dean dying.

They started filming a couple of weeks later, that's why they are finishing a bit later.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

They just finished ep 11, now they have a week off so they can only get in episode 13 ( minus 1 day) before Christmas break. So with 8 shooting days per ep, April next year sounds about right.

Last year they saved a week and a half because Scoobynatural wasn't filmed and the voice-over was done way in advance.

As for Eileen, I think Shoshannah is only listed for episode 8. So I guess she will just leave. I mean she could be back for the Finale but I kinda doubt there is any settling-down romantic endgame. When Jared waxed poetic on how much he loved the Finale, he also listed everything he wouldn't have liked for an ending. Which means he shot those down implicitely: he didn't like the brothers in heaven, continue hunting, settling down etc. Honestly didn't leave much room. He did like "being done".

I wouldn't mind Dean dying, provided it's a good death that means something and contributes to the world-saving. A hero's death sounds awesome.

Also, apparently the final scene of the show involves both brothers and the car. Short of flat-out stealing the "hello brother" ending from TVD or doing a flashback (or doing Xena), you can't work that with one dead and one alive.

Edited by Aeryn13
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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

They just finished ep 11, now they have a week off so they can only get in episode 13 ( minus 1 day) before Christmas break. So with 8 shooting days per ep, April next year sounds about right.

Last year they saved a week and a half because Scoobynatural wasn't filmed and the voice-over was done way in advance.

As for Eileen, I think Shoshannah is only listed for episode 8. So I guess she will just leave. I mean she could be back for the Finale but I kinda doubt there is any settling-down romantic endgame. When Jared waxed poetic on how much he loved the Finale, he also listed everything he wouldn't have liked for an ending. Which means he shot those down implicitely: he didn't like the brothers in heaven, continue hunting, settling down etc. Honestly didn't leave much room. He did like "being done".

I wouldn't mind Dean dying, provided it's a good death that means something and contributes to the world-saving. A hero's death sounds awesome.

Also, apparently the final scene of the show involves both brothers and the car. Short of flat-out stealing the "hello brother" ending from TVD or doing a flashback (or doing Xena), you can't work that with one dead and one alive.

If Jensen is unhappy it's not Thelma and Louise... ???

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

If Jensen is unhappy it's not Thelma and Louise... ???

From what I I understand Jensen doesn't like the finality of the ending and Jared likes exactly that.

What I'm not sure of anyway is when the writers told them the ending, does that mean they told them a rough outline of the final episode aka how the Season gets resolved in detail OR (and this would be my guess) did they tell them where the characters end up.

Both Jensen and Jared said things like "we have an ending, how we get there is up to the writers". That would speak more to telling them how they wrap up the characters, less so that a complete script of the Finale already exists.

Of course Jared's "if Amara posesses me" is way to specific to be random. If you listen to that particular interview however he started with "so if we're..." then stops himself and follows up with the Amara bit. So who knows what he caught himself from saying.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Just now, ukgirl71 said:

So it's final, but not actual 'final final' then (ref. Jared's 'see you later' comment about Sam)?  While speculating is perversely fun, I'm well confused now!

Jared was clear that he loves the finality of it. Now obviously in SPN you can undo anything and everything if you want. So nothing rules out a TV movie or reunion or whatever. 

Though for Jared, I think he was just being wistful and didn't literally mean open-endedness. He was going out of his way at Comic Con to say how he wanted the character to be "done" on some level. 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Just now, Jakes said:

Jensen did not say the ending is final and disliking that--he said his disliked it because of the finality of the show being done.  

He said he didn't like the ending they have when he heard it. He even compared it to Becky's horrified reaction in-show. Clarifying that the finality of it might have been what he struggled with. That's kind of different than "I never wanted the show to end and would have hated every ending ever".

Besides, Jared in 4 or 5 roundtable interviews waxed poetic on loving the ending for basically its finality. He named all the open-ended scenarios (and even some final ones) he didn"t want to happen. So if he is happy, it's not that hard to put 2 and 2 together that those won't happen.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

He said he didn't like the ending they have when he heard it. He even compared it to Becky's horrified reaction in-show. Clarifying that the finality of it might have been what he struggled with. That's kind of different than "I never wanted the show to end and would have hated every ending ever".

Besides, Jared in 4 or 5 roundtable interviews waxed poetic on loving the ending for basically its finality. He named all the open-ended scenarios (and even some final ones) he didn"t want to happen. So if he is happy, it's not that hard to put 2 and 2 together that those won't happen.

Do I think we have finality--yes...Dabb has said as much.  But Jensen's initial dislike he put down himself to having a hard time to show ending...and maybe not initially liking the specific.  He says he likes the ending now once he thought about it and also getting his head more toward the show ending...i'll take him at his word.

All this said I think any finality can be undone if they revisit the show with a movie or whatever.  

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
8 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Do I think we have finality--yes...Dabb has said as much.  But Jensen's initial dislike he put down himself to having a hard time to show ending...and maybe not initially liking the specific.  He says he likes the ending now once he thought about it and also getting his head more toward the show ending...i'll take him at his word.

All this said I think any finality can be undone if they revisit the show with a movie or whatever.  

As someone who thinks the first gut reaction to something is usually the most genuine one, I'm rather meh on Jensen being talked into/talking himself into liking the ending. That always made me dread it more than anything. Now maybe his and mine gut reaction would be different, that's possible but I will most certainly not talk myself into it. If I think it's crap, it will remain crap for me. Just like 5.22, be it forever cursed.

Undoing it? Of course. If both were killed off, disintegrated, body and soul and deleted from history, they could undo it within 5 minutes. Bad writing and lol!canon have to good for something.

Edited by Aeryn13
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Bergamot

Bergamot

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

As someone who thinks the first gut reaction to something is usually the most genuine one, I'm rather meh on Jensen being talked into/talking himself into liking the ending. That always made me dread it more than anything. Now maybe his and mine gut reaction would be different, that's possible but I will most certainly not talk myself into it. If I think it's crap, it will remain crap for me. Just like 5.22, be it forever cursed.

I agree, the fact that Jensen admits that he had to be talked into/talk himself into liking the ending does not fill me with joy and excitement. I think if it had been an awesome ending, he would have loved it immediately. I also think that the excuses he gave for not liking it at first, that he was "too close" to it and that he didn't like the finality, are just examples of the rationalizations he eventually used in order to talk himself into liking it.

That doesn't mean that I won't like it myself -- who knows at this point. But I don't like this showrunner or these writers, so I am not feeling a lot of trust.

Jensen did say that the original ending according to Kripke's five-year plan "would not make sense now." So I am hoping this means no repeat of 5.22.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)
24 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

As someone who thinks the first gut reaction to something is usually the most genuine one, I'm rather meh on Jensen being talked into/talking himself into liking the ending. That always made me dread it more than anything. Now maybe his and mine gut reaction would be different, that's possible but I will most certainly not talk myself into it. If I think it's crap, it will remain crap for me. Just like 5.22, be it forever cursed.

Undoing it? Of course. If both were killed off, disintegrated, body and soul and deleted from history, they could undo it within 5 minutes. Bad writing and lol!canon have to good for something.

I see what you are saying--for me it can go either way...sometimes the gut is right, sometimes thinking on it longer is more on target.   We'll see but I think Jensen honestly thinks it's good now--it'll be up to everyone to decide for themselves.

Edited by Jakes
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

1 minute ago, Jakes said:

I see what you are saying--for me it can go either way...sometimes the gut is right, sometimes thinking on it longer is more on target.

I remember liking the Series Finale of the show White Collar. Then I read interview from the showrunner what he was trying to get across and I thought his views were horrible and his ideas sucked. Fortunately, he was either too incompetent or competent enough to craft an episode where I got the opposite out of it than what he wanted. 

Maybe somehow this can be the case for SPN, too. 😉

When it comes to entertainment, it is like food to me. I taste it and I like it or I don't. Noone on this Earth or any time could talk me into asparagus. 😝

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

I have been filled with dread over the ending since Jensen's first comment on it, and nothing that has been said or done in show, in interviews or in cons since then has changed that feeling. If anything, what's playing out on screen only intensifies the feeling that I'm not going to like it.

Count me as someone who believes in gut/first reactions being the most genuine. Personally, I think Jensen meant it and still feels it, but he saw how his reaction affected (some of) the fandom and walked it back. He's nothing if not loyal to the show.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I have been filled with dread over the ending since Jensen's first comment on it, and nothing that has been said or done in show, in interviews or in cons since then has changed that feeling. If anything, what's playing out on screen only intensifies the feeling that I'm not going to like it.

Count me as someone who believes in gut/first reactions being the most genuine. Personally, I think Jensen meant it and still feels it, but he saw how his reaction affected (some of) the fandom and walked it back. He's nothing if not loyal to the show.

He didn't make me any better when he said that hopes fans will take a moment to analyze it.   For the majority of fans they tend to go with gut instincts.  That tells me he's concerned with fan reactions. 

I also believe Jensen has great instincts and with very rare exceptions I tend to agree with his intincts.  I always wonder if he really loves it or did he make his peace with it.   IMO, they aren't' the same thing. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

I also believe Jensen has great instincts and with very rare exceptions I tend to agree with his instincts.  I always wonder if he really loves it or did he make his peace with it.   IMO, they aren't' the same thing. 

Agreed (dumb physical humor aside). I think he sincerely wants US to love it and probably regrets putting doubts out there to begin with.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

(edited)
2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

From what I I understand Jensen doesn't like the finality of the ending and Jared likes exactly that.

What I'm not sure of anyway is when the writers told them the ending, does that mean they told them a rough outline of the final episode aka how the Season gets resolved in detail OR (and this would be my guess) did they tell them where the characters end up.

Both Jensen and Jared said things like "we have an ending, how we get there is up to the writers". That would speak more to telling them how they wrap up the characters, less so that a complete script of the Finale already exists.

Of course Jared's "if Amara posesses me" is way to specific to be random. If you listen to that particular interview however he started with "so if we're..." then stops himself and follows up with the Amara bit. So who knows what he caught himself from saying.

Does that mean she takes his soul or she literally possesses him because why the latter. She seems to identify as female and like that body which she chose to be born into.

Jared talks too much. It would be incredible if he spoiled the ending at the beginning of the season. Given the shoulder wound it's more likely Chuck possesses him...

Of course it may be asking too much for these writers to follow logic.

And don't forget that it will be Just Jack after episode 12. Since the audience is the Riverdale crowd he will need to have age appropriate adventures and get laid in addition to saving the world whilst Dean eats and drinks and Sam researches and makes bitch faces and Cas wanders aimlessly.

Edited by Castiels Cat
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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I remember liking the Series Finale of the show White Collar. Then I read interview from the showrunner what he was trying to get across and I thought his views were horrible and his ideas sucked. Fortunately, he was either too incompetent or competent enough to craft an episode where I got the opposite out of it than what he wanted. 

Maybe somehow this can be the case for SPN, too. 😉

When it comes to entertainment, it is like food to me. I taste it and I like it or I don't. Noone on this Earth or any time could talk me into asparagus. 😝

I hatehatehate asparagus! And here in Germany in the summertime they have those roadside foodstalls selling both strawberries (yum) and asparagus (yuck). How dare they!

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)
6 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Since Misha talked at his panel about the ending, I watched it to get the whole context of what he said and wrote it down to give us clues on the ending.  I'll write it out with exact quotes and put in order to make best sense of it:

"The ending of the show is going to be both a happy and sad ending.  I think it will be satisfying.  It will make some people cry though the final scene(and ending) not what I was expecting, it's happier than I thought it would be but it also has one of those crying moments.   We know the last scene and ending and what we are aiming for.  Actually i'm really happy...you know that I know the ending.  Happy yet you will be crying too--happy and sad at the same time."

That is essentially it  the original question ended up being--What would be the best case ending where everybody lives, everybody wins and what would be the worst case scenario ending?   Misha refers back to this question by saying, "Ending is a combo of the 2 endings your looking for."

So happy and sad and some crying moments BUT HAPPIER than Misha thought it would be.  TO ME looks like the guys win but not everyone lives and/or stays together.  Misha famously thought Cas should die in the end BUT to me a happier ending than Misha thought MIGHT mean Cas lives.

Something sad happens but hard to say what.

Edited by Jakes
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Shannonsspirit

Shannonsspirit

23 hours ago, Jakes said:

Lol. Whatever happened to the good old days when even the tiniest leak was met with frustration by everyone involved with the show.

The happy/sad thing is confusing; yet, seems the sad part is something almost minor compared to the happy. "Some crying moments," is an understatement if someone(brother) dies, unless there is an accompanying scene where they are greated by loved ones in Heaven. Otherwise, death and sorrow would completely overshadow any happiness.

The "combo of endings you are looking for," refers to the scenario of winning and everyone lives? Otherwise, what is being looked for that was not mentioned, except a very generic reference to a worst case scenario that no one would be looking for? 

On a side note: Jared being happy with the finality does not strike me as Dean dying. Finality is a very I/me personal thing. If Dean dies and Sam lives, how is that final for Jared? Besides, I think that being happy with an ending that involves the death on your on-screen bother of 15 years would be irrational and peculiar. If either dies, I would think it would be Sam, based on this.

ILoveReading

ILoveReading

3 minutes ago, Shannonsspirit said:

On a side note: Jared being happy with the finality does not strike me as Dean dying. Finality is a very I/me personal thing. If Dean dies and Sam lives, how is that final for Jared? Besides, I think that being happy with an ending that involves the death on your on-screen bother of 15 years would be irrational and peculiar. If either dies, I would think it would be Sam, based on this.

Jared does tend to see the show mostly through a Sam lens.  Jared said that if the brothers were hunting, he'd want to see it.  So I think it rules out the 'we got work to do ending".  So by finailty, I get the impression he means no hunting.  Either through retirement, no more monsters or death.

I would say it would be Sam if they hadn't brought Eileen back.  But she was brought back in a way that was framed as romantic and also we she her moping Sam's fevered brow.  Apparently the actress is in another ep.  So it seems she will be a recurring at least once more.  If they don't kill her off, I definitely see her as a possible end game.

I see Jack becoming the new God, Cas running heaven, Sam retiring and settling down with Eileen and Dean will either be left adrift, (Jensen's dream of giving away the Impala) or die.  I can see Jensen having a problem with those two endings because I think he wanted the brothers to go out together either hunting or both dying. 

That IMO fits with what Misha said.

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Shannonsspirit

Shannonsspirit

16 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Jared does tend to see the show mostly through a Sam lens.  Jared said that if the brothers were hunting, he'd want to see it.  So I think it rules out the 'we got work to do ending".  So by finailty, I get the impression he means no hunting.  Either through retirement, no more monsters or death.

I would say it would be Sam if they hadn't brought Eileen back.  But she was brought back in a way that was framed as romantic and also we she her moping Sam's fevered brow.  Apparently the actress is in another ep.  So it seems she will be a recurring at least once more.  If they don't kill her off, I definitely see her as a possible end game.

I see Jack becoming the new God, Cas running heaven, Sam retiring and settling down with Eileen and Dean will either be left adrift, (Jensen's dream of giving away the Impala) or die.  I can see Jensen having a problem with those two endings because I think he wanted the brothers to go out together either hunting or both dying. 

That IMO fits with what Misha said.

Yes, very good. I can't see anyone happy at all, if one brother dies, even if everything else is happy. Although, I very much like what you speculate.

Would the immature Nephilim be God? Is that why Chuck was morphed into a bored pychopath? Jack, by comparison, would be preferable?

Shannonsspirit

Shannonsspirit

32 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

Apparently Kripke told Jensen he liked the ending and it made sense, and Jared liked it, so I still reckon a rehash of 5.22 🤮

I have never seen an actual quote from Kripke regarding the ending other than(and I paraphrase) All shows come to an end and that he is proud of the show, the actors, the fans and the ideas that the show led to for him, personally.

The only other reference to Kripke, was Jensen Ackles saying he sought clarity and said Kripke thought the ending was ok.

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Shannonsspirit

Shannonsspirit

(edited)

So, if you tie all this together and combine it with Jack's return...

Amara absorbs, not Sam or Dean, but Chuck. Because of new canon or something otherwise improbable. This allows them to coexist, yet, neutralizes their powers, while maintaining balance.

Jack, our hero, becomes the new acting God and brings paradise to Earth, as invisioned by Castiel. 

Sam and Dean have been reduced to sub-class heroes. Further rendered insignificant, as Jack has destroyed all evil. Sam and Dean part ways, which satisfies the "some" sad. Everyone lives which satisfies the happy. Sam finds love and life with Eileen. Dean drives off in the Impala with Castiel by his side to go to the beach.

Edited by Shannonsspirit
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

5 minutes ago, Shannonsspirit said:

So, if you tie all this together and combine it with Jack's return...

Amara absorbs, not Sam or Dean, but Chuck. Because of new canon or something otherwise improbable. This allows them to coexist, yet, neutralizes their powers, while maintaining balance.

Jack, our hero, becomes the new acting God and brings paradise to Earth, as invisioned by Castiel. 

Sam and Dean have been reduced to sub-class heroes. Further rendered insignificant, as Jack has destroyed all evil. Sam and Dean part ways, which satisfies the "some" sad. Everyone lives which satisfies the happy. Sam finds love and life with Eileen. Dean drives off in the Impala with Castiel by his side to go to the beach.

I can see this happening but I would dislike everything about it.

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Shannonsspirit

Shannonsspirit

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I can see this happening but I would dislike everything about it.

Yes, me too. Although when I think of all the missed opportunities, botched explanations, Chuck-blaming, Jack-worshipping,  nonsense of the last 3 years...Combine that with the unimaginative loosely constructed and shallow story telling and diminished characters arcs, while adding the need to "satisfy," this what we are left with.

Bali

Bali

On 11/25/2019 at 1:47 PM, juppschmitz said:

I hatehatehate asparagus! And here in Germany in the summertime they have those roadside foodstalls selling both strawberries (yum) and asparagus (yuck). How dare they!

Agg! My husband is always asking me if I want asparagus. No. I do not. I will eat it because it's good for me. But DO NOT expect me to look forward to it, to like it, or to be happy about it.

This is also how I feel about the episodes this season.

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Shannonsspirit

Shannonsspirit

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

About Dabb and the 30% liking the ending--he was joking(badly perhaps)...he admitted so later.   He said he wants to please as many as possible but knows he won't please everyone in the diverse fan base.

Maybe, it would have been best to just write the story, flowing naturally to an organic conclusion. Without trying to please anyone, the ending would be what it is and no one would question it. Not everyone would like it, perhaps; but it would make sense.

I didn't see good story telling last season. Other than Jack being sick, sicker, dying, dead, in danger of losing his soul, may have lost his soul, ad infinitum, while Sam, Dean and Cas were wringing their hands, nothing happened and no character or story was developed. Additionally, Jack repeatedly saved the day.

So, when Dabb references happy viewers, to whom is he referring? When he feels the need to tease what "fan favorite" is returning after x number of years, is it about the story? No, it's about Kevin, Becky, Ketch, Eileen, Lilith etc. and anyone else they can bring back that doesn't move the story forward, because they die or disappear within the blink of an eye, while furthering the ridiculous retcon of Chuck. Why the retcon of Chuck? So, Jack can replace him as God and make paradise on Earth.

This isn't Sam and Dean's story, anymore. They are aging heroes reduced to running in a maze "until they become boring or die." This is a meta extravaganza to reduce the importance of Sam and Dean, rendering everything they did over the years meaningless, as well as, nullifying major themes. 

Furthermore, the stories are trite, without nuance or substance because Chuck is a bad writer. Apparently, this will continue until...Jack Returns.

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Shannonsspirit

Shannonsspirit

Did you guys know that before Dabb became a co-writer on Supernatural that his work was limited to writing graphic novels? Maybe this explains the shallow stories, lack of character development and stilted dialogue. I always wondered why Jack never spoke more than 5 words in one sentence. "I can raise the pencil. I want to be good." You can only fit so many words in a comic book bubble.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

9 minutes ago, Shannonsspirit said:

Did you guys know that before Dabb became a co-writer on Supernatural that his work was limited to writing graphic novels? Maybe this explains the shallow stories, lack of character development and stilted dialogue. I always wondered why Jack never spoke more than 5 words in one sentence. "I can raise the pencil. I want to be good." You can only fit so many words in a comic book bubble.

Dabb also wrote the comics and they were very similar to what we see on screen.

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7kstar

7kstar

On 11/27/2019 at 12:01 AM, Shannonsspirit said:

Unfortunately, I think the only sector he can be absolutely sure of satisfying is the Jack enthusiasts. They would love to see him as The Hero, and are the ones who embraced incongruously evil Chuck as "The Big Bad. They aren't old enough to have watched the show unfold over the years and most likely do not have a feel for the story or primary characters.

Additionally, I think the long term audience wants two entirely different endings. The brothers to die, guns blazing or to live in peace and happiness.  

On 11/27/2019 at 1:23 PM, Jakes said:

About Dabb and the 30% liking the ending--he was joking(badly perhaps)...he admitted so later.   He said he wants to please as many as possible but knows he won't please everyone in the diverse fan base.

I think the folks they are writing to are the binge watchers.  Those that watch the show in one sitting and don't have any patience to wait for the new season or just joined in the last few and caught up by binge watching.

If you aren't looking for the details, it might be satisfying.  For me the worst part is that I no longer look forward to speculating what might happen.  It use to be fun but now it just feels like a waste of time.  Sam hasn't grown any lately, Dean's character is a shadow of what it once was.  I started out as a brother's fan.  I didn't start watching until the end of season 3.  Then I watched season 4 live.  I admit I like Dean more than Sam as I relate to him more but I wanted a strong send off.  I guess I'm now joining the binge watchers on the last season.

I don't think I will feel much for their ending because God as the big Bad is a major fail for me.  I wish Chuck was the AU Character and that the real God shows up at the end.  But that would mean that they could surprise us and well they haven't lived up to that in a very long time.

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Shannonsspirit

Shannonsspirit

17 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

I think the folks they are writing to are the binge watchers.  Those that watch the show in one sitting and don't have any patience to wait for the new season or just joined in the last few and caught up by binge watching.

If you aren't looking for the details, it might be satisfying.  For me the worst part is that I no longer look forward to speculating what might happen.  It use to be fun but now it just feels like a waste of time.  Sam hasn't grown any lately, Dean's character is a shadow of what it once was.  I started out as a brother's fan.  I didn't start watching until the end of season 3.  Then I watched season 4 live.  I admit I like Dean more than Sam as I relate to him more but I wanted a strong send off.  I guess I'm now joining the binge watchers on the last season.

I don't think I will feel much for their ending because God as the big Bad is a major fail for me.  I wish Chuck was the AU Character and that the real God shows up at the end.  But that would mean that they could surprise us and well they haven't lived up to that in a very long time.

Wow, you expressed so many similar sentiments. 

The Chuck retcon into an evil, bored manipulative writer completely pulled me from the show. Not just the meta aspect, but the disregard for the creator of human souls and the destruction of free will. These major themes have underlined Supernatural and were destroyed in the blink of an eye. I, too, looked for theory and explanations of an extended test or an imposter.

Yet, when I consider how Sam and Dean's characters and stories are so  weak or sidelined, in the past year or two, I realized I know longer engage.

I can see the teen and tween hyper watchers cramming season upon season into a month, alternating between the play and fast forward buttons. They don't feel the nuance or track the evolution. The brain can't process it before moving on to the next episode, season. So for them it is "big bad" and big thrills. Throw in young Jack with his awesome comic book super powers and put the old men on the bench.

With the change in lore and canon, explained away because writers lie, anything can happen. Therefore, nothing matters as all becomes disconnected and meaningless.

Sad way to go. 

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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