Spoilers With Speculation

[Casseiopeia]

I think this might be a pretty big blow to S15.

[PAForrest]

7 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

I think this might be a pretty big blow to S15.

It appears season 15 is going to be running on fumes.  Sad.

But at least Kripke is happy in his new gig.

[SueB]

guessing Jensen will be here tonight.  

[bethy]

If Jared hasn't been to Vancouver yet does that mean Jensen's episode doesn't have any Jared? Will filming be over once Jensen gets to Comic Con? Sorry - I don't know how the production schedule works!

[OrigamiNightmare]

On 7/18/2019 at 10:53 PM, auntvi said:

UGH!! I see that as a bad, bad sign that old characters are just going to be plopped into episodes with no rhyme or reason.

I so want Crowley to show up "hello boys". I know Mark Sheppard is on another show right now, but I feel like the show really lost something when his character died.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

I so want Crowley to show up "hello boys". I know Mark Sheppard is on another show right now, but I feel like the show really lost something when his character died.

If that happens it's because they recast the part, which NO THANK YOU!  I don't see Mark Sheppard ever coming back

[SueB]

6 hours ago, bethy said:

If Jared hasn't been to Vancouver yet does that mean Jensen's episode doesn't have any Jared? Will filming be over once Jensen gets to Comic Con? Sorry - I don't know how the production schedule works!

It’s not likely that Jared is less in the episode.  Presuming this follows the normal shooting schedule, the timing works well.  

Usually the first day of the 8 day cycle (per episode) is the guest cast and the teaser(I.e. not the leads) and other shots that don’t involve J2.  That was the 18th. The filming on the 19th likely include ‘Dean only’ shots (or his coverage for a shot ... less likely).  As Jensen is the Director he had to be there anyway and I could see where he’d want to get as much filming out of the way to give as much cushion to the schedule in his allotted 8 days as possible.  Michaels mentioned filming went til late on Friday but that’s par for the course (Friday filming often turns into Early Saturday filming — it’s nicknamed ‘Fraterday’ because the crew naturally gets the union required downtime between filming hours as there is no filming on Sundays).  

So, presuming Jared is in Vancouver on Monday, there are 6 shooting days left   That’s more than enough time for his parts for a normal episode.

[bethy]

Thanks, @SueB!

[Bobcatkitten]

Yeah, only two days of shooting on 8-day schedule so far on that episode. So Jared can still be in that episode heavily. 

[gonzosgirrl]

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

If that happens it's because they recast the part, which NO THANK YOU!  I don't see Mark Sheppard ever coming back

Just sayin'...

ETA he also 'liked' this tweet.

Edited July 21, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Casseiopeia]

So did anyone give any interviews yesterday?  I haven't seen anything so far.

[Aeryn13]

So apparently Berens said the brothers will respond differently to the idea of "did God manipulate everyhing, do we have free will?"  Source

You just know which brother will be doing it wrong here and be portrayed as the quitter and which one will be the "smart, enlightened, brave, optimistic" one.

Especially coming from Berens.

Dreading press room interviews. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Aeryn13

[bethy]

Awesome. Because another round of "Oh noes! The brothers aren't on the same page!" is just how the last season should start.

[OrigamiNightmare]

17 hours ago, catrox14 said:

If that happens it's because they recast the part, which NO THANK YOU!  I don't see Mark Sheppard ever coming back

Yeah, I suppose I don't either (I seem to recall that he didn't leave on the best of terms), but I think of all the villains in Supernatural he's been my favourite and he was such a part of the show for such a long time.

Add me to the group who hate the idea that Jack might become the new God, blech. I definitely do not want the last season to be focusing on or revolving around Jack! But it also feels unavoidable given that Jack is "the most powerful being in the universe" or whatever. Hell, why worry? The Empty and/or Billie/Death (I wish old school Death would show up. I know it won't happen I just really like him) can just send Jack back to Earth lickety-split and he can lock God away like Amara (maybe with Lucifer's help), then he can destroy all the monsters and then everybody can go to the beach.

Edited July 21, 2019 by OrigamiNightmare

[OrigamiNightmare]

Who would people like to see brought back? And who do you speculate will be brought back? I'm assuming Jodi, Donna, Rowena and Lucifer will return, maybe alternative Bobby and Charlie? I want to see Crowley, Ellen, Jo, and Ash.

Edited July 21, 2019 by OrigamiNightmare

[Res]

17 minutes ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Who would people like to see brought back? And who do you speculate will be brought back? I'm assuming Jodi, Donna, Rowena and Lucifer will return, maybe alternative Bobby and Charlie? I want to see Crowley, Ellen, Jo, and Ash.

No one. They will only screw up anyone brought back, IMHO, like Mary.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Res

[Bobcatkitten]

So trying to figure out how Jensen filmed the first two days with a beard. I know it's episode 4 - any speculation or theories? Hopefully we will learn more from the interviews. 

EDIT - J2 are filming for the first time tomorrow apparently so oops.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Bobcatkitten

[Bobcatkitten]

Andrew Dabb has said Eileen, Rowena and Adam will return for the final season.

[ILoveReading]

That doesn't make a lot of sense.  That makes it sound like Sam and Dean haven't been hunting in a long time.

[Bobcatkitten]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

That doesn't make a lot of sense.  That makes it sound like Sam and Dean haven't been hunting in a long time.

Remember it's actually episode 4 so don't know how that plays into it.

[Res]

14 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

That doesn't make a lot of sense.  That makes it sound like Sam and Dean haven't been hunting in a long time.

Do you really expect anything that Dabb and these writers put out to make sense? I'd have thought they cured us all of that seasons ago.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Who would people like to see brought back? And who do you speculate will be brought back? I'm assuming Jodi, Donna, Rowena and Lucifer will return, maybe alternative Bobby and Charlie? I want to see Crowley, Ellen, Jo, and Ash.

I was thinking maybe Mark was warming to the possibility, however remote, of a Crowley return or cameo, and then Singer comes out with this:

They screwed Mark out of his parting line, negated the character's sacrifice completely, and then say this? I can hear Mark's eyes rolling from here.

[Aeryn13]

He is lucky, that means they won't ruin Crowley.

Comfirmed returns: Adam (Jake Abel), Eileen and Rowena. I also read Amara on some twitter.

[SueB]

Real spoilers ahead:

https://www.thetvaddict.com/2019/07/21/supernatural-comic-con-press-room-the-cast-and-producers-tease-the-end-of-the-world-gods-destructive-plan-and-the-series-ending/

[OrigamiNightmare]

Hmmm Dabb is writing the finale that doesn't bode well.

[Res]

16 minutes ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Hmmm Dabb is writing the finale that doesn't bode well.

Dabb writing his own name doesn't bode well. 

Dabb writing the series finale will be a freakin' disaster of epic proportions. Remember the rewrites last year for the finale.

[PAForrest]

11 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I was thinking maybe Mark was warming to the possibility, however remote, of a Crowley return or cameo, and then Singer comes out with this:

They screwed Mark out of his parting line, negated the character's sacrifice completely, and then say this? I can hear Mark's eyes rolling from here.

Yeah, what's Singer going to do - admit they purposely screwed over Mark, had a nasty falling out with him culminating in both parties agreeing to lose each other's numbers? Mark Sheppard has openly admitted his parting from the show was not sweet sorrow, he was less than pleased with his end, and he will never return.

Singer still lives in the '50's where SM doesn't exist and he thinks people don't hear or read things, even when they come directly from the horse's mouth.

[gonzosgirrl]

I hope the scene requires them to be puffy-eyed and snotty. Or dead. Otherwise, I can't imagine how they'll get through that.

[gonzosgirrl]

A collection (not mine) of tweets, photos, links from the SDCC interviews. Some spoilerish stuff in the text so just in case I'll post here. 

https://wakelet.com/wake/8e003697-69bc-4590-a8ab-00ff2f93974a

[OrigamiNightmare]

22 hours ago, Res said:

Dabb writing his own name doesn't bode well. 

Dabb writing the series finale will be a freakin' disaster of epic proportions. Remember the rewrites last year for the finale.

I hadn't heard about that. What happened? What was changed? 

[OrigamiNightmare]

On 7/21/2019 at 4:14 PM, Res said:

No one. They will only screw up anyone brought back, IMHO, like Mary.

Hmmm that is also true. Ok, how about who do you not want to be brought back?

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Hmmm that is also true. Ok, how about who do you not want to be brought back?

*waves at @AwesomO4000*

Benny.

(But for different reasons 🙂 )

[SueB]

Good questions:

[SueB]

More responsible answer about fan satisfaction.

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Hmmm that is also true. Ok, how about who do you not want to be brought back?

My vote would be Nickifer, but I think that ship has sailed (and is heading straight at us on a collision course.)  

Other than that, the usual:  Mary, Amelia, Ruby.  Any and all pagan or mythological gods.  And I can do without yet another reincarnation of Gabriel.  

And Paris Hilton. 😊

[AwesomO4000]

5 hours ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Hmmm that is also true. Ok, how about who do you not want to be brought back?

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

*waves at @AwesomO4000*

Benny.

(But for different reasons 🙂 )

Actually after thinking about it, the main way / reason I would mind Benny coming back is if Carver was involved in some way. For me, it's him who screws up how I feel about many characters. Benny can come back as long as Carver is in no way involved.

Although I'm sure others will disagree, I actually enjoyed how fake Benny was written in "The Werther Project." It was just Carver's vision of Benny in season 8 that I didn't like.

I more agree with @ahrtee on Amelia. If there was any character I truly hated, it was her.

And it's not lost on me that Amelia is yet another Carver original character creation. And in the case of her, one that they kept trying to make happen and talking up way after most of us just wanted her to go away.

Other characters I don't want to come back: Any witches (no exceptions, except maybe Rowena), any non-Alpha Vamp or non-Benny (w/o Carver) vampires, Michael - either version (I don't like either of them), Adam - unless we find out that he's actually been in heaven this whole time. Otherwise please, please, please no Adam. And Alastair. And Uriel. Or Anna for that matter. Basically no non-Castiel season 4 angels or demons. Period.

But then again, some of the characters I would most like to see return are ones most people would hate to see... A few of my favorites: Dick Roman (waves @catrox14), Chet, and George... maybe even Joyce (but mostly so that George could eat her - heh.) But I know a lot of people dislike the Leviathans (I loved them), so I have alternatives...

My two ultimate favorite characters I'd want to see again - Rufus and Frank... preferably together, because I'd love to see those two interact. Maybe Gamble or Robbie Thompson could write that episode. Or both.

Oh, and Metatron! :: ducks in anticipation of flying rotten vegetables ::

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Actually after thinking about it, the main way / reason I would mind Benny coming back is if Carver was involved in some way. For me, it's him who screws up how I feel about many characters. Benny can come back as long as Carver is in no way involved.

Although I'm sure others will disagree, I actually enjoyed how fake Benny was written in "The Werther Project." It was just Carver's vision of Benny in season 8 that I didn't like.

I more agree with @ahrtee on Amelia. If there was any character I truly hated, it was her.

And it's not lost on me that Amelia is yet another Carver original character creation. And in the case of her, one that they kept trying to make happen and talking up way after most of us just wanted her to go away.

Other characters I don't want to come back: Any witches (no exceptions, except maybe Rowena), any non-Alpha Vamp or non-Benny (w/o Carver) vampires, Michael - either version (I don't like either of them), Adam - unless we find out that he's actually been in heaven this whole time. Otherwise please, please, please no Adam. And Alastair. And Uriel. Or Anna for that matter. Basically no non-Castiel season 4 angels or demons. Period.

But then again, some of the characters I would most like to see return are ones most people would hate to see... A few of my favorites: Dick Roman (waves @catrox14), Chet, and George... maybe even Joyce (but mostly so that George could eat her - heh.) But I know a lot of people dislike the Leviathans (I loved them), so I have alternatives...

My two ultimate favorite characters I'd want to see again - Rufus and Frank... preferably together, because I'd love to see those two interact. Maybe Gamble or Robbie Thompson could write that episode. Or both.

Oh, and Metatron! :: ducks in anticipation of flying rotten vegetables ::

Adam is already confirmed. 

Benny, I don't want back for Dabb to ruin by making him anti-Dean in some way. I'm sure that is how ve will ruin Amara. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

I'd like to see Alastair come back.  

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I'd like to see Alastair come back.  

Replying in B v J just to be safe.

[Myrelle]

12 hours ago, SueB said:

More responsible answer about fan satisfaction.

If only he'd gone with these answers and not tried to be "funny" with his 30-35% suspected approval rating from the fandom-although if the plan IS to end the show with the brothers no longer hunting together, he might actually be right about that.

One thing I kind of latched onto in this particular interview was at the very end when he was talking about the  ending, he said that the characters are "different"; so perhaps their endings will be different AKA they won't be doing the same thing AKA hunting.

And maybe Jensen "tripping" over it more involved the thought or idea that going forward one will be hunting(Dean) and one won't(Sam).

I think that Jensen has always wanted the brothers to end up together and this way that would not really be the case, but each brother would be doing what makes them happiest and most at peace.

And IMO, they would likely have Dean struggle more with this than Sam, as(again IMO), this is how the two characters have been written/depicted, more often than not, over the course of the entire series, but especially from the beginning. 

And Kripke would likely have seen/thought that this would be an inevitable ending for the two characters, too-especially if they're both going to end up alive at the end-which I think they will.

ETA: He said they were "different people" and it was more at about the halfway point.  Sorry about that.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Myrelle
Spelling

[trudysmom]

15 hours ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Hmmm that is also true. Ok, how about who do you not want to be brought back?

Jack, I know he is but I still want him gone.  Claire, Kaia, anyone named Winchester or Campbell except Sam and Dean, Amelia, Chuck, Gabriel, Gadreel, Nick, NotBobby,  NotCharlie can all stay away.  I really would only like to see Donna, Jodi and Alex again.  Not as Wayward whatevers, just to wave bye to.  OG Death, Crowley and Meg would be nice, but how to do that without Nick seems unlikely.  Ah, to look back on the glory days wish for one last decent episode, much less a season. 

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

If only he'd gone with these answers and not tried to be "funny" with his 30-35% suspected approval rating from the fandom-although if the plan IS to end the show with the brothers no longer hunting together, he might actually be right about that.

One thing I kind of latched onto in this particular interview was at the very end when he was talking about the  ending, he said that the characters are "different"; so perhaps their endings will be different AKA they won't be doing the same thing AKA hunting.

And maybe Jensen "tripping" over it more involved the thought or idea that going forward one will be hunting(Dean) and one won't(Sam).

I think that Jensen has always wanted the brothers to end up together and this way that would not really be the case, but each brother would be doing what makes them happiest and most at peace.

And IMO, they would likely have Dean struggle more with this than Sam, as(again IMO), this is how the two characters have been written/depicted, more often than not, over the course of the entire series, but especially from the beginning. 

And Kripke would likely have seen/thought that this would be an inevitable ending for the two characters, too-especially if they're both going to end up alive at the end-which I think they will.

ETA: He said they were "different people" and it was more at about the halfway point.  Sorry about that.

I don't think he meant the characters but that the show means different things to different people, as in viewers. Or was there another remark you were referring to? I might have missed it then.

I do believe they will have the brothers both not hunting at the end and that Jensen struggled with that. With an ending where Dean still hunts, he might have been more okay. At least that would be my impression of it.

Now Dabb also said the ending is pretty much set in stone, just changing (and probably going to change) how they get there. So possibly they didn't pitch the Finale per se to the Js but just the overall final scene.

If I'm right and the Finale is the usual "dealing with crisis" and then a rather tacked-on ending, then the how they deal with God part is to be determined but the ending-ending is not.

I guess if the settling-down and normal-life anvils are falling hard this Season, we'll have a conclusive answer.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Aeryn13

[SueB]

I think the people returning are people who are in Hell.  A comment was made (It was Dabb or Singer, can’t remember which) that we’d see people there -some who belonged and some who didn’t belong there.  

IF that is accurate, the. Who would be rightly be there (and interesting) and who would wrongly be there (and interesting). We know Crowley unfairly took Bobby to Hell.  Others could have suffered the same fate during the Crowley regime.  It doesn’t HAVE to be during that time but it’s more his style.  So who would Crowley have a grudge against?

Options:

Kevin - although Chuck theoretically managed that personally and Crowley was human blood influenced in S11  

Henry Winchester - Leverage and during the height of Crowley’s dislike of Sam and Dean

Grandpa Campbell - was there in the first place but wiley enough to escape if there is an opening 

Real Charlie - she died shortly after Sam shot Crowley - he was in a pissy mood

Hendricksen - because Lilith used him so I think Lilith took souls of people she could use against hunters. Which adds in human Meg, Ronald Resnick, etc...

Lester, Randy and the Rapists, Casey, Samandrial  

These names come to mind without researching so I give them a a higher probability of return  

I’m ruling out demons killed (versus exorcised) because they likely went to the Empty vice back to Hell. 

Likewise I’m ruling out Monsters as they went to Purgatory.  

[Myrelle]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don't think he meant the characters but that the show means different things to different people, as in viewers. Or was there another remark you were referring to? I might have missed it then.

I do believe they will have the brothers both not hunting at the end and that Jensen struggled with that. With an ending where Dean still hunts, he might have been more okay. At least that would be my impression of it.

Now Dabb also said the ending is pretty much set in stone, just changing (and probably going to change) how they get there. So possibly they didn't pitch the Finale per se to the Js but just the overall final scene.

If I'm right and the Finale is the usual "dealing with crisis" and then a rather tacked-on ending, then the how they deal with God part is to be determined but the ending-ending is not.

I guess if the settling-down and normal-life anvils are falling hard this Season, we'll have a conclusive answer.

I thought he meant the characters, but you could be right. 

If the ending involves Dean quitting hunting, I can totally see why JA would have a big problem with it(so would I!)AND why JP wouldn't.

I really hope that they won't go there because, to me, it would negate how Jensen has often portrayed Dean, in a lot of ways. 

Honestly, if Dean ever did choose to retire, IMO, Yockey has already shown us best how he might do that in Nihilism. 

But Yockey is gone and it seems that, at this point, they want to forget that Nihilism ever happened altogether, so who knows. 🙄

[Aeryn13]

20 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I thought he meant the characters, but you could be right. 

If the ending involves Dean quitting hunting, I can totally see why JA would have a big problem with it(so would I!)AND why JP wouldn't.

I really hope that they won't go there because, to me, it would negate how Jensen has often portrayed Dean, in a lot of ways. 

Honestly, if Dean ever did choose to retire, IMO, Yockey has already shown us best how he might do that in Nihilism. 

But Yockey is gone and it seems that, at this point, they want to forget that Nihilism ever happened altogether, so who knows. 🙄

I do believe now that the writers will shove the characters into some kind of retirement. Which, I wouldn`t necessarily be against in every scenario but you need a compelling journey to get there. Which we obviously won`t get.

That`s why them dying would be the much better way to go for these writers, no explanation necessary then for why they won`t keep hunting. You can show them in heaven being lalala if you don`t want to make it too sad. 

But unless Jackie-poo makes the paradise world of sunshine and rainbows, there is always something to hunt.

Now you could do it semi-retirement style where one or both stay in one place largely, function more in mentor or Bobby roles. 

Or maybe the final scene will be a large time-jump with Jensen and Jared both in aging make-up and that`s why they`ll be in retirement. Jensen said he had problems with the finality of the story and this would basically put a cap on it. While at the same time still leave room for movies if they want them to do for "in between stories".

However, that doesn`t really fit what Jared said in one interview and not really with Jensen`s finality either. IF they do a time-skip montage, just not to when they are old, the best thing they could give Dean was a family. A child/children might be THE most compelling reason why he wouldn`t just be out and about anymore.

Or else, what, he is gonna be in a wheelchair? Blind? Something that makes it physically impossible to hunt. Possible of course. A sucky ending also. How would that give Dean "peace"? Jared said both characters find peace and it would be a very weird description if something like that happened.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I do believe now that the writers will shove the characters into some kind of retirement. Which, I wouldn`t necessarily be against in every scenario but you need a compelling journey to get there. Which we obviously won`t get

I can see Chuck telling them that he won't harm anyone else if the boys stop hunting.  That he'll be nice to everyone else that he think deserves it as long as they remove themselves from the board.  And it would be a form of torture for Dean, especially, who believed he would die bloody which would be okay because he saved people.  I just don't see any other way they can force Dean into retirement.

[catrox14]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

ared said both characters find peace and it would be a very weird description if something like that happened.

Dean could find peace in death especially if he goes to the Empty like Billie promised.  And I could see Sam having peace with not hunting at all.   So in that respect, Jared would be not wrong.

[tessathereaper]

31 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Dean could find peace in death especially if he goes to the Empty like Billie promised.  And I could see Sam having peace with not hunting at all.   So in that respect, Jared would be not wrong.

Except I don't think Jensen would have a problem with that.  Jensen did have a problem with it.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, tessathereaper said:

Except I don't think Jensen would have a problem with that.  Jensen did have a problem with it.

I see your point.  Then I am stumped. LOL

[PAForrest]

The one nugget of real truth I got out of Dabb's interviews was the admission that the CW is not interested in a spin-off. Period. That still doesn't mean Dabb et. al. won't continue to focus too heavily on Princess Jacqueline this last season even though there is no hope that the CW is going to pick up a spin-off - which I never thought they would. But the bottom line is that the CW doesn't want it, and IMO didn't really want any version of a spin-off that didn't have the Winchesters because they are what has made the show what it is. They are the show, regardless of whether or not certain showrunners and producers are content with that fact.

Aside from that, I still can't tell if Dabb's little "30%" line was really a joke since he continues to stress "can't please everyone, oh well".

As for how it's going to end, I'm not going to hazard a guess right now. I can see it going any number of ways. All I know is that Jensen wasn't convinced, had to work hard to be convinced, and it's still not clear if he's content with it or ever will be. And as a Dean fan, that has to be my #1 concern.