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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
36 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Leaving aside the fact that I am not interested in any story centering around Jack--especially after the disaster that was his alleged characterization in the last ep, where he appears to have regressed to minus 2--just giving Jack back his soul but leaving him the ridiculous power that the show has chosen to give the Tween Wonder Sue would not necessarily solve the problem.  "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."  (Notice that there is no "tends" when it comes to absolute power.)

Especially with someone that they keep portraying as apparently incapable of every maturing or truly learning, even though he was born with a fully formed adult brain.

And while with humans, evil is not generally inherited (though psychopaths are born, which would suggest that they have a wiring issue that could might be able to be passed on; I really don't know), Jack is not the offspring of a human alone.  He's also Satan's spawn and Chuck has already advised us that Luci was evil on his own; the Mark only made him worse.

I'm SO! over NougatSue's storyline. I just want to see it ended for good now, preferably with his disappearance(or at least his predominant disappearance, if they're going to remain hellbent on keeping him)from S15. 

Hopefully, Chuck will take him with him to live with him and Auntie Amara after they re-populate Heaven enough to make it stable again. 

I mean according to Chuck any being with that kind of power can't really mix it up with humans on a regular basis lest they do more harm than good, right?

So yeah, I'm thinking that Chuck will need to take the Nougatbaby away with him-and this, especially if he is in any way responsible for or plays a part in another human death and especially if it's Mother Mary's. 

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

16 hours ago, SueB said:

Listening to the Gold Panel and reading the notes from the Main Panel today - with loss stemming from sacrifice being the 'theme' of S14 (per J2) -- it sure seems like we're losing Mary or Jack or both.  I'd bet Mary.  

I've been thinking Mary is the one who dies for some time.  A maybe for Jack would be my second guess.

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SueB

SueB

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18 minutes ago, farmerbud52 said:

Has there been any confirmation that any of the Waywards will appear in the final episodes this season? I know Dabb say they will be before the season started but, some recent info says there be no more appearances from them.

Zero signs of any of the Waywards the rest of the season.  KN is under new management. YGP is on an AppleTV show.  We’ve already had Jody & Donna.  I don’t think we’ll see of the others.  Nothing on Social Media to say they filmed.  

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SueB

SueB

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A reminder for this week:

Updating Jess' sheet (with updated data put in bold) -- Jess' last update was mid filming (11 Feb 19);

Episode 14x17 (currently filming ... at the time Jess stopped updating her sheet)
Title: Game Night
Written by:  Meredith Glynn
Director:  John Showalter
Filming Dates: February 5 - February 19; February 9 - February 20 (based on Jason Fischer's twitter)
Castiel? Yes. Jack? Yes
Guest stars: Mark Pellegrino (Lucifer), Danneel Ackles (Jo/Anael), Sam Smith (Mary), Keith Szarabajka (Donatello)
Other Spoilers/info (newest to oldest):
Jo and Castiel share scenes
Scenes were filmed near a train
Seattle Convention to occur during filming (con canceled)

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
1 minute ago, SueB said:

Two and a half seasons of story....   certainly seems like they intend to pay off something.  Two and a half seasons is early S12.  

Next week's episode is called Absensce.  I wonder if Dean and Mary go missing. I remember a BTS pic of the Impala stilling alone in the woods.

I think this is an episode that Jensen missed time due to the Bacchus stuff. 

Edited by ILoveReading
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Next week's episode is called Absensce.  I wonder if Dean and Mary go missing. I remember a BTS pic of the Impala stilling alone in the woods.

I think this is an episode that Jensen missed time due to the Bacchus stuff. 

I think that was 18, though? Jared appears to have possibly missed a bit of shooting for this one, Jensen possibly for 18 and maybe a day or so of 19. 

Two and a half Seasons? A pretty big pointer towards Mary. Well, please die.

Edited by Aeryn13
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

29 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think that was 18, though? Jared appears to have possibly missed a bit of shooting for this one, Jensen possibly for 18 and maybe a day or so of 19. 

Two and a half Seasons? A pretty big pointer towards Mary. Well, please die.

Sorry, I didn't word that right.  I meant that this ep might end with Dean and Mary going missing.

Lastcall

Lastcall

(edited)
45 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think that was 18, though? Jared appears to have possibly missed a bit of shooting for this one, Jensen possibly for 18 and maybe a day or so of 19. 

Two and a half Seasons? A pretty big pointer towards Mary. Well, please die.

This is the first episode this year I am tempted to watch live. Just the thought of seeing The Ice Queen go down makes me the most excited about an episode since season 10. 

Edited by Lastcall
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SueB

SueB

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15 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

So apparently Moriah (among other things) is the mountain Abraham tried to sacrifice Isaac on

Yes.  And Dabb loves to plumb Genesis.  Tonight’s Ancient Hebrew was likely his touch.

So the dads sacrifice Jack to stop Lucifer once and for all?  Maybe Chuck says ‘No.’.  Or maybe he stops them at the last second (like Abraham).  It would be VERY on brand for Dabb.  

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S Cook Productions

S Cook Productions

51 minutes ago, SueB said:

Yes.  And Dabb loves to plumb Genesis.  Tonight’s Ancient Hebrew was likely his touch.

So the dads sacrifice Jack to stop Lucifer once and for all?  Maybe Chuck says ‘No.’.  Or maybe he stops them at the last second (like Abraham).  It would be VERY on brand for Dabb.  

Do you think all 3 of them try to sacrifice Jack? I could see Dean doing it because he always said he would be the one to end him. Or I could see Cas doing it just for the angst. 

Myrelle

Myrelle

3 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Was this the promo last night?  I don't remember this scene.  So what did Sam and Dean just drive home and forget Jack and Mary?

3 hours ago, BlueDiamond said:

It's a sneak peek from next week's episode. For some reason, the CW released it super early this week. 

56 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Thanks that explains Dean's comment to Castiel (kind of).  But weird that the CW would release it so soon.

Trying to make it look like they didn't expect the Dean hate they generated-except most of us know that they did. 

FU writers.

FU.

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ZennyKenny

ZennyKenny

3 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Was this the promo last night?  I don't remember this scene.  So what did Sam and Dean just drive home and forget Jack and Mary?

See this is what I'm talking about. They were all on the same page about being wary of Jack and being on the lookout for any odd behavior. So why would Cas hide the snake thing from the boys? Are they even going to give us a reason? 

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SueB

SueB

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22 hours ago, ZennyKenny said:

See this is what I'm talking about. They were all on the same page about being wary of Jack and being on the lookout for any odd behavior. So why would Cas hide the snake thing from the boys? Are they even going to give us a reason? 

I think they thought he still had some soul left.  But killing the snake was pretty much the classic sign of a full-on psychopath.  No remorse or understanding his actions were wrong.  

Now Dean’s reaction? The ‘you’re dead to me’ from the preview seems a bit OTT.  It’s fear, obviously.  And I think he and Sam were already on alert.  But if Dean finds Mary’s dead body in the woods in a future episode, not only will he and Sam be despondent, Cas will just want to curl up and die.  Maximum angst overdrive.  

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
23 hours ago, SueB said:

Now Dean’s reaction? The ‘you’re dead to me’ from the preview seems a bit OTT.  It’s fear, obviously.  And I think he and Sam were already on alert.  But if Dean finds Mary’s dead body in the woods in a future episode, not only will he and Sam be despondent, Cas will just want to curl up and die.  Maximum angst overdrive.

The last time Dean reacted this way was when Charlie died and Sam was the secretive one and so caught the brunt of Dean's ire, the only difference being that Dean was carrying the MOC then. But even so, when Sam questioned whether Dean's reaction was due to carrying the Mark, Dean answered that it didn't matter. 

So maybe Mary's death or even the prospect of it, has finally sent Dean over the edge and around the bend in a similar manner, but this time it's all just Dean. He has been heading for a  meltdown of this magnitude for years and years, IMO, and I've waited for it to happen numerous times, with The Prisoner being somewhat of a payoff,  but I'd still like to see it happen with an entirely human Dean.

I could even see a stand off with Chuck/God over killing the Nougatbabysue where Dean refused to listen to the deity because, honestly, why should he?

Oh, to have a showrunner who wanted to write for the stars of this show again... 

Edited by Myrelle
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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

22 hours ago, Myrelle said:

The last time Dean reacted this way was when Charlie died and Sam was the secretive one and so caught the brunt of Dean's ire, the only difference being that Dean was carrying the MOC then. But even so, when Sam questioned whether Dean's reaction was due to carrying the Mark, Dean answered that it didn't matter. 

So maybe Mary's death or even the prospect of it, has finally sent Dean over the edge and around the bend in a similar manner, but this time it's all just Dean. He has been heading for a  meltdown of this magnitude for years and years, IMO, and I've waited for it to happen numerous times, with The Prisoner being somewhat of a payoff,  but I'd still like to see it happen with an entirely human Dean.

I could even see a stand off with Chuck/God over killing the Nougatbabysue where Dean refused to listen to the deity because, honestly, why should he?

Oh, to have a showrunner who wanted to write for the stars of this show again... 

Canon has already established that nephilim need both parts, soul and grace, to survive; they deconstruct without one of these necessary parts.We saw that Jack literally died without his grace.

My guess is that he is on track to deconstruct in a different way without his soul... explode maybe after going crazy crazy unstable.

Dean is the only person Chuck has ever listened to or changed his story for in previous canon. He left Dean in charge. I doubt Chuck will change Dean's decisions although he may come if Dean calls. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

4 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Canon has already established that nephilim need both parts, soul and grace, to survive; they deconstruct without one of these necessary parts.We saw that Jack literally died without his grace.

My guess is that he is on track to deconstruct in a different way without his soul... explode maybe after going crazy crazy unstable.

Dean is the only person Chuck has ever listened to or changed his story for in previous canon. He left Dean in charge. I doubt Chuck will change Dean's decisions although he may come if Dean calls. 

Canon really means nothing on this show.  The writers do what they want. 

As for Chuck, there are BTS pics that show Cas talking to him, so I'm sure its going to be a repeat of Dean and Amara, with Cas convincing Chuck to help them with Jack and Lucifer. 

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SueB

SueB

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Bringing back the details for 14.18

From Jess'

Quote

Updating Jess' last post (my adds are in bold)

Episode 14x18
Title: Absence
Written by: Robert Berens
Director:  Nina Lopez -Corrado
Filming Dates: February 20 - March 1 (February 21 - March 4) 
Airdate: April 11
Castiel? YES Jack? Likely (note: Sam Smith either talked to Alex on set during this episode or somehow keeps in electronic communication with him, because she reacted to something he must have told her directly on 28 Feb .. upgraded Jack to 'likely')
Guest stars: Sam Smith (Mary), Ruth Connell (Rowena), Mark Pellegrino (Nick/Lucifer)*
Other Spoilers/info (newest to oldest): see previous analysis on impact of Mardi Gras)

Math on Likely Impact of Mardi Gras

Note:  I have Sam Smith in this episode based on her tweets.  When I wrote these bold comments,  I didn't know she was already likely dead.  If she's dead, that's weird. Maybe a ghost or flashbacks? 

Official Synopsis:
 

Quote

SUPERNATURAL
“Absence”— (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

THE STATE OF BEING AWAY– Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) continue to worry about the condition of Jack’s (Alexander Calvert) soul. The episode was directed by Nina Lopez-Corrado and written by Robert Berens. (#1418). Original Airdate 4/11/2019.

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nightwing877

nightwing877

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Bringing back the details for 14.18

From Jess'

Math on Likely Impact of Mardi Gras

Note:  I have Sam Smith in this episode based on her tweets.  When I wrote these bold comments,  I didn't know she was already likely dead.  If she's dead, that's weird. Maybe a ghost or flashbacks? 

Official Synopsis:
 

Unless she's a corpse, and or we actually see what actually went down with her death shown in a flashback. 

I know she was on set for the finale, she posted on Insta with her script. So unless she's a ghost or it is simply flashbacks. I guess she's dead.

Still, wonder why they did that odd cliffhanger, I'm guessing to make us think Jack killed her when really it turns out it was someone else as revealed in 18 or 19.

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S Cook Productions

S Cook Productions

3 hours ago, PinkChicken said:

I like this take. Because it makes sense & counters my comments/issues (in the bitter spec thread i think) about how Jack without a soul is being presented as any worse than a normal (albeit super-powered) angel. 

If they're too scared to actually take him dark, making him go involuntarily nuclear through his huge amount of unstable grace would still be a pretty big problem while removing any guilt on his part...

  
I wont believe Mary is dead until we see it. I refuse to believe they would leave it cut off like that & want to see the rest of that last scene 😞. Though I wouldn't put it past them to do a fake out to only kill her again relatively soon at someone elses hands anyway.

I can see this...but if she’s not dead, then why did Jensen say he had a scene crying in the woods alone; and why is Dean so pissed at Cas?? I guess she could be severely injured a la Donatello was, or missing. 

nightwing877

nightwing877

On the one hand, Mary is pretty obvious, but would the Js make it so very obvious, I mean saying a major death is coming and it affects Sam and Dean and with what they said with filming, they surely know fans will know it HAS to be someone like Mary. But then them being gleeful 'bet you can't guess' makes me think they wouldn't make it too obvious. Unless it is Mary and they said that trying to throw people off when they realized what they said gave away too much.

I'll hate if they don't pick up right away with where the cliffhanger ended. If they don't, then it is a really weird cliffhanger to end on, if Mary is really dead. So I'm sure we'll get a flashback on how she died, and hear Jack's POV, I hope so. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

It's possible that Jared and Jensen would think the audience would never think the show would kill Mary off again.

I can see it being Mary because the show has no clue what to do with her character. To demonstrate she wasn't "just a mom" the show seemed make her primary storyline, finding a man at the expense of her children.  I'm thinking Mary didn't give a damn about "her people" but wanting to stay with her new boy toy Bobby.    They have no interest in actually having her build a relationship with her sons.    The character has gone over like a lead balloon for the most part.  So from a writing standpoint killing her off makes sense,

From how Jensen and Jared were talking in that panel, I get the sense that the crying in the woods, cutting trees is episode 19.   I think Jensen said something like "just the other day" and they were filming 19 at the time.

I think 18 will go as follows.

We won't know if Mary is dead or alive until the end of the episode.  I think when Jack said leave me alone he sent her away.   I believe there was a promo of Jack lying in the woods alone.  Sam and Dean will spend the ep looking for her.

We'll get the angsty scenes, of Sam being worried and Dean's trauma antibodies only making him worried for Sam, and he'll be angry at Cas and maybe the full line is "if mom dies your dead to me."

Jack will be worried and wondered if he killed her, making him vulnerable to Lucifer.  He'll end up raising Lucifer and releasing him.    This will happen around the mid point of the ep.

Then end the end Dean will probably be the one to find Mary body but we won't know if its Jack or Lucifer who killed her.  (It will be Lucifer to keep the taint fully off Jack).

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S Cook Productions

S Cook Productions

56 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was thinking about that same thing and wonder if he's really talking to Jack who is off screen for reasons..

Maybe, but can you really see them trying to make everyone think it was Dean at Cas and then have it not be? I'm not sure they would do such a blatant misdirect...would they?

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I think it`s Cas. It looks like he is speaking to Cas in that scene and you even get Cas` "what?" reaction. No Jack in sight. The sneak peak pretty much solidifies this because it gives context to why Dean would be angry.

Now it might be "if something happened to mom, you`re dead to me" and then at the end they/Dean find her body. Then it`s angst for ep 19 and apparently they`re working together again in the Finale. 

Though I would find it weird if Dean wasn`t at all angry with Nougat if Mary is dead. I mean, his bouncy-bouncy-baby shield should not work to THAT ridiculous degrees.  

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Myrelle

Myrelle

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think it`s Cas. It looks like he is speaking to Cas in that scene and you even get Cas` "what?" reaction. No Jack in sight. The sneak peak pretty much solidifies this because it gives context to why Dean would be angry.

Now it might be "if something happened to mom, you`re dead to me" and then at the end they/Dean find her body. Then it`s angst for ep 19 and apparently they`re working together again in the Finale. 

Though I would find it weird if Dean wasn`t at all angry with Nougat if Mary is dead. I mean, his bouncy-bouncy-baby shield should not work to THAT ridiculous degrees.  

I think it's Cas, too, but I think that I can remember times when this show has used the type of switcheroo that makes a promo seem to be something that it turns out to not be at all-and I'm sure it was done purposefully.

I'm thinking that there have even been times when parts of a promo were not even included in the actual episode- which is just mind-boggling to me.

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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