S04.E12: Heroes And Villains

[legaleagle53]

I can't remember the Maleficent storyline on this show, but they couldn't get an actress that looked more than Angelina Jolie more than Kristin Bauer Van Straten LOL, maybe she even work as her double on some movies! or wasn't the other way around? According to imdb she was Maleficent on 2011 and that movie came last year.

 

You're reading history backwards.  Kristen Bauer van Straten played the role first on Once.  Angelina's movie came out much later.  The show has simply been waiting for the actress who originated the part on Once to be available to reprise it (since the viewers appear to hate recasting; see Robin Hood and the idea to recast Jefferson).

[Curio]

Why would they have not dismissed [Anna] anyway? All season long, people have been getting lectures and stink-eyes for mentioning that Regina used to be a villain. Why didn't they just tsk-tsk her and inform her that Rumple used to be bad, but now he has changed?

 

What's also really bad about the way Emma reacted to Anna's reveal about Rumple is that she was involved in a plot this exact same season about not remembering someone! Emma was given grief about not knowing who the Snow Queen was when there was photographic evidence of them interacting in the ice cream shop, so why would Emma jump to the conclusion that Rumple was playing them this whole time? And then conveniently realize he must be in the clock tower? Is it that far fetched to believe his memories were wiped like Emma's were, too? That moment was just totally out of character and completely contrived.

 

So we had to sit through an extended episode where Snow and Regina got to talk about how banging a guy while his wife is frozen isn't a bad thing as they're walking slower than injured sloths to find Emma, but we can't even see our main protagonists puzzle together one of the season's biggest mysteries during the "epic" finale?! If it weren't for the actors, I'd be completely done with this show by now.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Curio

[Amelia]

It genuinely kills me a little inside each time we have to struggle for this show to make sense. I'm surprised I have any soul left.

[jhlipton]

 Is that gauntlet even part of Arthurian legend?

 

Not in any version I'm familiar with, and I'm familiar with a lot of them.  

[Shanna Marie]

Sure, maybe he claimed he didn't know Anna and that is a lie, but the man has been kicking around for 300 years. I have lived much less than that and I can't remember everybody I've ever met.

I think the key (not that we actually saw them come to this conclusion) was that he lied about not knowing anything about Anna or Elsa while having Belle use the dagger to make him tell the truth.

 

Not that this leads directly to "we must rush into town and save the day!"

 

Anna's knowledge of the hat, if she told them (since we didn't see that part), doesn't even add any urgency, since Anna last saw the hat with Ingrid in Arendelle 30 years ago. She knows Rumple wanted it and tried to get it, but she doesn't know if he has it and she doesn't know the conditions required to use it for separating himself from the dagger.

 

So, the only things that could have come from anything Anna told them was that Rumple lied (it's also a day ending in "y"), that he lied while Belle was supposedly making him tell the truth (slightly concerning, but not really an immediate crisis), and that a magical hat exists that sucks in magical beings and that Rumple could use to maintain his power while freeing himself from the dagger, but Ingrid had it 30 years ago. They might have put two and two together to realize that Rumple had the hat if they figured out that this was how he was going to remove Emma's powers or if they realized what had happened to the fairies (do they even know the fairies are missing?). Any other connections are too big to take place offscreen. There is absolutely no way those characters could have gone straight from anything Anna could have told them to knowing they had to rush into town right away and stop Rumple without them getting access to additional information and making some big inferences and logical leaps.

 

One other thing that's irking me: It seems to me to be wildly out of character for Emma to buy into this nonsense about finding the author to get Regina a happy ending. If there's anyone in this entire show, other than maybe Hook, who'd be a huge believer in making your own fate and being in control of your own destiny, it would be Emma. This is Miss "The Only One Who Rescues Me is Me." If she's acting in character, her reaction would be "Seriously? Where'd you get a stupid idea like that?" She might soften it somewhat in Henry's presence, since he's on board, but rather than endorsing it, she might say, "Wow, that's an interesting plan," but then when she got Regina alone she'd be more like, "What the hell kind of nonsense are you feeding my son?"

[RadioGirl27]

One other thing that's irking me: It seems to me to be wildly out of character for Emma to buy into this nonsense about finding the author to get Regina a happy ending. If there's anyone in this entire show, other than maybe Hook, who'd be a huge believer in making your own fate and being in control of your own destiny, it would be Emma. This is Miss "The Only One Who Rescues Me is Me." If she's acting in character, her reaction would be "Seriously? Where'd you get a stupid idea like that?" She might soften it somewhat in Henry's presence, since he's on board, but rather than endorsing it, she might say, "Wow, that's an interesting plan," but then when she got Regina alone she'd be more like, "What the hell kind of nonsense are you feeding my son?"

Yeah!!!

This was Emma Swan in season 1:

People are going to tell you who you are your whole life. You just gotta punch back and say, “No, this is who I am.” You want people to look at you differently? Make them. If you wanna change things then you have to go out there and change them yourself because there are no fairy godmothers in this world.

And now I have to beleive she is ok with Operation Stupidity?

Season 1 Emma would have never accepted to be part of something like this stupid plot of “lets find the Author of the book so I can make him give me my happy ending”. Season 1 Emma would have said Regina that you have to fight for your happy ending, and that you need to start accepting your own responssability in your unhappiness.

But the writers have decided to sacrifice Emma, like Henry and Snow before her, in the altar of Woegina. If doing so they make the bullies happy, even better for them.

Edited December 18, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[AudienceofOne]

So I realize that the scene with Emma and Regina at Granny's isn't popular

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with the scene at all. As written it was actually great. What was wrong with it was not the scene itself but the context in which it appeared in the episode.

 

Hook was tortured and manipulated for the whole season, forced to murder people and lie to the woman he loved, and after a ten second scene Emma apparently let him wander off alone, which I personally don't buy for a moment but anyway... 

 

Belle just found out her entire life is a lie and she's been fundamentally wrong about everything and she's nowhere to be seen, while Regina is being consoled because her boyfriend of a week stayed with his wife.

[HeimrArnadalr]

And now I have to beleive she is ok with Operation Stupidity?

Season 1 Emma would have never accepted to be part of something like this stupid plot of “lets find the Author of the book so I can make him give me my happy ending”. Season 1 Emma would have said Regina that you have to fight for your happy ending...

Yeah, but they can't have her say that because that's what Rumpelstiltskin the villain told Regina.

 

I'm not sure what's worse: that the Dark One is the voice of reason, or that he's being portrayed as incorrect. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm not sure what's worse: that the Dark One is the voice of reason, or that he's being portrayed as incorrect.

Rumple was only incorrect about how he got his happy ending. Other than that, what he said was pretty solid. I like how he has some sort of liking toward Regina, as some sort of twisted rival/ally/teacher/student relationship. They play off each other so well and I wish they would get more scenes together. They scheme very well.

Edited December 19, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

They play off each other so well and I wish they would get more scenes together. They scheme very well.

 

But that would acknowledge that Regina is a villain, and we can't have that!

[HeimrArnadalr]

Rumple was only incorrect about how he got his happy ending. Other than that, what he said was pretty solid. I like how he has some sort of liking toward Regina, as some sort of twisted rival/ally/teacher/student relationship. They play off each other so well and I wish they would get more scenes together. They scheme very well.

My worry is that they'll take Rumple's basic point (you're responsible for your own happy ending) and then show that this is wrong and that if you want a happy ending you have to petition the Author for one. Back when Henry got his idea to work for Rumple to see how he got his happy ending, I thought that this storyline might not end up so bad, because Rumple certainly didn't ask the Author to set him up with Belle or give him a position of power in town. Now that Rumple is recruiting flunkies to help him find the Author, though, it looks like he'll have essentially Regina's goals, just trying to achieve them in a more villainous way. I'm sure the 'Queens of Darkness' will be entertaining (and I'm particularly looking forward to Cruella) but I don't have high hopes for the story in 4B.

[jhlipton]

I'm sure the 'Queens of Darkness' will be entertaining (and I'm particularly looking forward to Cruella) but I don't have high hopes for the story in 4B.

 

Judging from the way they just passively stood when Rumple summoned them to get the dagger back, I'm not so sure.

I'm fairly certain that Ursala will be killed in the first few episods and never mentioned again. C'mon, a woman of color on this show?  Surely you jest.

[KingOfHearts]

 

My worry is that they'll take Rumple's basic point (you're responsible for your own happy ending) and then show that this is wrong and that if you want a happy ending you have to petition the Author for one.

Oh, the irony. I recall interviews with A&E, even in the recap specials, where they said you had to work for your happy endings, that they're not handed out to you.

[jhlipton]

I was just thinking about Robin, Marian and Roland's good-bye scene.  Charming and a couple of dwarfs are standing by the side of the road.  Why are they there?  Were they going to push Robin out if he didn't go voluntarily?

 

And once they were there, would it have killed them to approach Regina and tell her that they know she hurts, but she did the right thing, and for the right reason,  "That's what heroes do." 

[Rumsy4]

And once they were there, would it have killed them to approach Regina and tell her that they know she hurts, but she did the right thing, and for the right reason, "That's what heroes do."

There are enough people propping Regina up already. Besides, Regina wouldn't be looking for validation from the dwarfs.

[FabulousTater]

I was just thinking about Robin, Marian and Roland's good-bye scene.  Charming and a couple of dwarfs are standing by the side of the road.  Why are they there?  Were they going to push Robin out if he didn't go voluntarily?

And once they were there, would it have killed them to approach Regina and tell her that they know she hurts, but she did the right thing, and for the right reason,  "That's what heroes do."

Pleeease, Regina needs her ego stroked like a horny 20 year old male needs viagra.

[Camera One]

I was just thinking about Robin, Marian and Roland's good-bye scene.  Charming and a couple of dwarfs are standing by the side of the road.  Why are they there?  Were they going to push Robin out if he didn't go voluntarily?

 

That was the quality screentime for Charming in this episode.

[Rumsy4]

Was Charming really there for the Robin/Marian farewell scene? That's right up there in dumbness with Snow going with Emma to stop Rumple from whatever they thought he was doing. These writers have no idea how to use their characters anymore.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Was Charming really there for the Robin/Marian farewell scene? That's right up there in dumbness with Snow going with Emma to stop Rumple from whatever they thought he was doing. These writers have no idea how to use their characters anymore.

Just rewatched the scene. Didn't see him there. I must be blind. I didn't see any dwarves, either. All I saw was Will and the Merry Men.

Edited December 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

There are enough people propping Regina up already. Besides, Regina wouldn't be looking for validation from the dwarfs.

 

I'm not talking about validating Regina or stroking her ego, I'm talking about validating the act.  If heroes get happy endings and villains don't, how about helping her become a hero?

 

Just rewatched the scene. Didn't see him there. I must be blind. I didn't see any dwarves, either. All I saw was Will and the Merry Men.

 

OK, I'm blind.  Guess I didn't recognize them from the 5 minutes of screen time they've had.

 

 

[Camera One]

They looked like Dwarves when I watched it.  Kinda glad it's the Merry Men since that makes more sense.

[Rumsy4]

I think they were supposed to be Merry Men + Will. The presense of Little John would have helped. Wonder why they couldn't get him.

I'm not talking about validating Regina or stroking her ego, I'm talking about validating the act. If heroes get happy endings and villains don't, how about helping her become a hero?

That would mean they bought into the ideology that happy endings are handed out by some entity. Besides, it's not the responsibility of random people to help Regina become a hero. I'm sure they all have their own problems, being in a strange realm, and living in the forest. We don't know if they have a happy ending of their own.

[Camera One]

Yeah, I had expected Little John.  He's the only one they've given a personality to.

[The Cake is a Pie]

I thought it was a little odd that they all didn't follow Robin and family, or at least volunteered to go with them. They follow him everywhere. It's not like they need magic. They could have just had Will stay behind for whatever reason.

[Mari]

That would mean they bought into the ideology that happy endings are handed out by some entity. Besides, it's not the responsibility of random people to help Regina become a hero. I'm sure they all have their own problems, being in a strange realm, and living in the forest. We don't know if they have a happy ending of their own.

And it would have been yet more  of people not reacting--especially to Regina--like a real person would.

 

Why would they go over to cheerlead Regina?  Yes, she helped Marian and sexed up Robin.  However, she was also the reason for the original curse, which wiped out their life, and killed so many people she doesn't know who they all are.

 

Why would they go over to her?  They  didn't have access to her "bold and audaciousness", just to her reputation and the ramifications of her Evil Queen days. She's lucky that they didn't kill her when she was distracted crying about Robin.

[HouseofBeck]

Was Regina's hand holding Robin's while it crossed the line supposed to mean something? Her comment about choosing Marian because the kids had to come first made me think something is coming there. 

This is one of the things that I keep coming back to (among all the other things I keep coming back to)--if there's any significance to her hand crossing the line, and what may have been a trick of the eye: Did she have a ring on that hand, that then was either slipped off during the hand-holding and Robin has it, or it fell to the ground? Mr. HouseofBeck saw it (and then the absence) too.

I need to rewatch that scene, but haven't been able to bring myself to reenter that world more than reading this forum.

[Shanna Marie]

And once they were there, would it have killed them to approach Regina and tell her that they know she hurts, but she did the right thing, and for the right reason,  "That's what heroes do."

When you look at it, Regina didn't actually do anything. It was Robin who did the right thing (finally). Regina just didn't do the wrong thing in begging, encouraging or demanding him to stay with her. He still had free will and made his own choice (even if he did sort of have to be nagged into it). I guess it's safest to say she allowed the right thing to happen, and she kind of owed it to them, since she's the reason their family was broken up to begin with.

 

Regina's redemption isn't anyone's responsibility but her own, and I'd believe it a lot more if she got less coddling, if she did the right thing because it was the right thing, even if no one knew and even if she got no encouragement or accolades, even if she thought that she'd already gone too far to deserve a happy ending.

[jhlipton]

This shows how deeply this show is f**ked up.  IIRC, it was Regina who suggested they get Marian across the town line and that Robin go with them (I could be wrong about this, though).  Regardless, she did a nice and decent thing in seeing them off and making sure they knew where to go, but because the character is so rotten, telling her that she did a nice and decent thing is seen as "coddling".  

 

I'm as sick of Woegina as anyone, but I thought just a word or two would have been, well, nice and decent.

[Camera One]

When you look at it, Regina didn't actually do anything. It was Robin who did the right thing (finally).

 

As jhlipton said, Regina was the one who suggested it.  She could have stayed silent and Marion could have died.  I dislike Regina-coddling as much as the next person, but in this case, Regina actually did something right for the right reasons and followed through with it.  

[Shanna Marie]

As jhlipton said, Regina was the one who suggested it.  She could have stayed silent and Marion could have died.

Yes, she did come up with the suggestion, and she encouraged/prodded Robin into doing it, but ultimately he was the one who made the decision and took action.

 

And why would she even want a loser who needed someone else to suggest that maybe he shouldn't send his wife out into a strange world alone and who needed such strong urging to do the right thing? You get the feeling that if Regina hadn't been prodding him, he'd have happily stayed with her and let Marian fend for herself in a world she doesn't understand. That's where instead of Regina needing condolences, she needs an intervention to have it pointed out to her that she's much better off without that loser.

 

Seriously, this guy is almost as bad a husband as Rumple. At least he hasn't killed his wife, which is a slight point in his favor. But he is a major scumbag and a miserable excuse for a human being.

[KAOS Agent]

Regardless of how you view Regina's actions here, what bothered me was that they spent a ridiculous amount of time showing us how Regina felt about it at the expense of allowing other characters to have reactions to very serious events. We saw Regina talk about Robin with Marian, Robin (twice), Emma and Rumpel. And it wasn't a new thing either. We've seen her discuss these same problems with Snow and Henry (and others) in previous episodes. I'm fairly well versed in Regina's feelings about Robin and have been for quite some time. Rehashing things times eleven was a waste of time.

 

Meanwhile, Hook was tortured, forced into heinous actions and believed he was going to die. Emma saw her foster mother die, her boyfriend almost die and said goodbye to one of her only friends. We got nothing showing them having a reaction to any of this other than a 25 second scene with at most 10 seconds of dialog. Belle finally stood up to her husband, but we never saw her make the realization of all he'd been doing behind her back nor did we see anyone comforting her afterwards. Why does Regina have a conversation with every single character on the show about her relatively minor problem while no one else is even allowed to have one scene dealing with their issues? 

Edited December 21, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Rumsy4]

Not to mention that nobody seemed to be bothered about Belle either (as usual). Was there anyone making sure she was doing alright in the aftermath of banishing her husband? Who knows?

I wouldn't credit Robin too much with deciding to go with Marian across the town line. He was practically pushed into it. I wonder if he didn't really understand the implications of sending Marian across the town line. Maybe he thought she would be cured and could come back? Otherwise it makes no sense for him to not realize that he would have to accompany her. Regina had to point that out to him. Even without the barrier spell, he would still have had to leave with her.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Not to mention that nobody seemed to be bothered about Belle either (as usual). Was there anyone making sure she was doing alright in the aftermath of banishing her husband? Who knows?

There seemed to be some sort of small time jump right before Emma kisses Hook, because Emma mentions to Regina that Gold is suffering more than her. In this time I suppose Hook and Belle told their stories.

[Rumsy4]

Regardless, she did a nice and decent thing in seeing them off and making sure they knew where to go, but because the character is so rotten, telling her that she did a nice and decent thing is seen as "coddling".

I'm as sick of Woegina as anyone, but I thought just a word or two would have been, well, nice and decent.

I don't necessarily disagree with the concept. However, there are several things that would make such a scene unnatural. For one, guest characters don't have real speaking parts. In an episode where Charming had one line, it would be too much to give more to the background characters. A lot of screentime was already spent on Regina & Robin in the already jam-packed episode. In addition, they wrote a scene of Emma, one of the main characters, supporting Regina.

Besides, how much do the merry men know? There wouldn't have been time for more than a quick farewell and convey the information that Marian needed to leave Storybrooke in order to survive. How many of them knew that Robin had chosen to be with Regina, but was now obliged to leave town with Marian? Or that Regina had urged him to leave?

Finally, Regina rejected Emma's attempts of appreciation. She would not have taken well to appreciation or sympathy from the "riff-raff". She has a poor opinion of the masses, and is typically snarky about them. She would take any of their supportive words as an impertinence.

[Hanahope]

Just finished watching this with my kids.  Its a bit long to read the entire thread, but maybe someone can answer our questions and remind us.  Wasn't Malificent killed as a dragon by Emma in season 1 when she had to get something hidden under a scale?  If so, how can Malificent be one of the other two queens Rumple is looking for?

 

Also, I had thought that the Storybrook 'curse' changed when they all got their memories back, that now when they leave the town, they "revert" back to the made up persona from Regina's original curse, but they could re-enter the town.  Isn't that what happened to Belle?  Did the curse change again, to now let them keep their memories, but prevents them from returning to the town?  When did that happen and how did they know that?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Wasn't Malificent killed as a dragon by Emma in season 1 when she had to get something hidden under a scale?  If so, how can Malificent be one of the other two queens Rumple is looking for?

Regina preserved her in "ghost form". In S2, Regina tricked Hook into being a distraction while she grabbed the failsafe. Ghost Maleficent chased after him, so she's not truly dead.

 

 

Also, I had thought that the Storybrook 'curse' changed when they all got their memories back, that now when they leave the town, they "revert" back to the made up persona from Regina's original curse, but they could re-enter the town.  Isn't that what happened to Belle?  Did the curse change again, to now let them keep their memories, but prevents them from returning to the town?  When did that happen and how did they know that?

The curse got totally ripped and reverted in S3, and Snow cast a new curse with its own new rules. The Snow Queen cast a cloaking spell on the town so that people couldn't find it. Thus, people who leave can't return.

[YaddaYadda]

Regina preserved her in "ghost form". In S2, Regina tricked Hook into being a distraction while she grabbed the failsafe. Ghost Maleficent chased after him, so she's not truly dead.

 

Just to add on that, there's a spell that keeps Maleficent alive.  Regina mentions something along those lines to Hook, but I can't remember exactly what she said.

[Shanna Marie]

I hated this one more upon rewatching because it makes less and less sense. There's such a huge, unexplained gap between Anna's comments at the portal and Emma showing up in the tower and between Belle finding the gauntlet and showing up pissed off.

 

I stand by my assertion that Regina doesn't need praise for letting Robin go. Yes, it was right for her to give him up so Marian wouldn't be alone, but it was still his choice whether she told him to go or begged him to stay, and telling him to go counts more as basic human decency than heroism. Doing it means she gets to be a decent human being, while not doing it means she's a jerk. It doesn't qualify her for praise or a medal. No one else on this show would be showered with praise for telling her married lover to stay with his wife (Snow was made the town pariah and shunned for having a married lover). This is a grown woman, not a puppy, and she doesn't need to be praised every time she does something decent, especially when she doesn't ever get criticized when she does something awful.

 

The final Arendelle segment was weirdly placed. I would assume it took more than fifteen minutes to get Hans and his brothers out of the castle and to get the wedding put together, and yet we see Anna and Elsa moments before the wedding before we see Emma restoring Hook's heart. It might have solved a lot of the problems with this episode if they'd moved the Arendelle scene to after the heart restoration. Then it looks less like it's taken forever to put Hook's heart back and it allows us to assume some time has passed before Emma ditches Hook to go coddle Regina.

 

I have reached the point that I have to restrain myself from throwing something at the TV every time someone says "villains don't get happy endings" as though it's some pre-ordained rule of the universe instead of the natural consequence of focusing your life on hurting other people.

 

Not to mention, they seem to be equating a happy ending with a romantic relationship. Yeah, Rumple's son died after he spent centuries trying to find him again, but hey, he got married, so he got a happy ending! Regina has a son who loves her, a nice house, the people she used to torment begging to be friends with her, and she can wield the most powerful light magic ever, but if she doesn't have a boyfriend, her life is ruined, and obviously it's some kind of conspiracy to keep her from having a happy ending. Yeah, I know people who feel that way, but it would be nice if they didn't have every single character on the show validate that attitude.

[Serena]

Not to mention, they seem to be equating a happy ending with a romantic relationship. Yeah, Rumple's son died after he spent centuries trying to find him again, but hey, he got married, so he got a happy ending! Regina has a son who loves her, a nice house, the people she used to torment begging to be friends with her, and she can wield the most powerful light magic ever, but if she doesn't have a boyfriend, her life is ruined, and obviously it's some kind of conspiracy to keep her from having a happy ending. Yeah, I know people who feel that way, but it would be nice if they didn't have every single character on the show validate that attitude.

This is the thing that makes me crazy. In season 3, Regina was swearing up and down that her son was everything and her happy ending. Now she has him, and guess what? She just can't be happy if she doesn't have a relationship, too! Isn't that Rumplestiltskin lucky? Sure, his son was just tragically murdered like 2 weeks ago, but he has a wife! 

[Rumsy4]

This is the thing that makes me crazy. In season 3, Regina was swearing up and down that her son was everything and her happy ending. Now she has him, and guess what? She just can't be happy if she doesn't have a relationship, too! Isn't that Rumplestiltskin lucky? Sure, his son was just tragically murdered like 2 weeks ago, but he has a wife! 

 

Even though I'm so over Bagel, it's extremely odd that Rumple would have gotten over his son's death so fast. He didn't say a word about Neal to Regina. He literally said he was going to get everything he had ever wanted. I mean, what?? So his centuries long quest to find his son was not because he wanted to be with his son? That's utter BS. 

Edited December 22, 2014 by Rumsy4

[PaperScissors]

Word a zillion times Shanna Marie and Serena. That attitude - that you can't have a happy ending without a romantic partner - really bothers me too.

 

Yes, Regina and Robin aren't together. But she has her son and friends etc - relationships that would NOT be strong if she were still the Evil Queen. She isn't expecting to ever get back together with Robin... so what happy ending is she actually looking for? Another guy? I thought soul mates weren't a dime a dozen, so what is the end goal of Operation Mongoose? Because other than a romantic partner, I think she's doing pretty well.

 

I do see why missing out on a soulmate would be sad, especially in the fairy tale context, but I am just struggling to understand the point of Operation Mongoose. She has every component of a happy ending right now with the exception of a romantic partner. So is that the point of the quest? Are Emma and Henry now her dating service? Are Emma and Henry going to go out and ask random cute guys if they think Regina's cute? Are they creating an online dating profile for her? I'm confused...

[Dani-Ellie]

I'm confused, too. Because look, Regina, the people around you are far nicer to you than you really warrant, considering how your actions have affected them. Plus, last season, she was all, "I can't be happy without Henry" to the point that she was willing to put herself under a sleeping curse rather than live without him. Now she has her son, and she's been shown shutting him out and pointedly ignoring -- and rolling her eyes at -- phone calls from the people who were taking care of him. So which is it, Regina? Is your son your happily ever after or isn't he? What, exactly, are you looking for?

 

If this were any other show, I would have the faith in the writing team that they are in fact setting Regina up for the lesson that her happy ending is hers to chase. It's not about achieving some state of blissful peace like completing a level in a video game; it's learning how to be happy with and hold onto what you have because the only ending in real life is death. She's going to face challenges for the rest of her life, and no one can just hand a happily ever after to her, it must be fought for. But with all the victim-blaming and whitewashing of past actions that's already gone on, I just do not have the faith in these guys. I'm hoping they surprise me, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Rumsy4]

So is that the point of the quest? Are Emma and Henry now her dating service? Are Emma and Henry going to go out and ask random cute guys if they think Regina's cute? Are they creating an online dating profile for her? I'm confused...

I wouldn't put it past Henry. He is creepy like that.

[KingOfHearts]

I wouldn't put it past Henry. He is creepy like that.

Breakup baskets. Need I say more?

Upon rewatch, Belle's revelation with the gauntlet would have made so much more sense if they had shown more seeds of doubt prior. She seemed in total disbelief that Rumple would lie to her up until this episode, and she looked dumb for that. When she finds the gauntlet, she has this expression of her face that says, "Now I'm going to find out the truth," but she wasn't suspicious of Rumple before. If she believed she was his True Love, why use the gauntlet?

[Hanahope]

Thanks for answering my questions.  I don't recall Regina 'saving' ghost Malicifent, but I'll go with it.  I didn't realize that what how the Snow Queen's 'curse' worked.  Still not sure that the inhabitants of Storybrook would have realized exactly how it worked either, until someone tried it.  But whatever.

 

I agree that I'm not a fan at all about the whole 'can't have a happy ending without a lover' bit for Regina, or anyone else.  Seriously, I think that's the wrong message to send kids (including a lot of girls, who you know, like 'fairy tales'), that unless they have a husband, they can't be happy.  One can be happy with a husband, but one can also be happy without one.  I have to keep telling my girls that this is still a 'fairy tale.'

[KAOS Agent]

You know I've been wondering how if Robin isn't a villain, why he got screwed out of his happy ending here. Does the author hate Robin too? If the author is pulling the strings to make sure villains make stupid decisions that take away their happy endings, why wouldn't he have made Robin fall in love with his wife again instead of chasing after Regina? Wouldn't that make both the "heroes" happy while making the "villain" sad? Why are all of the characters so stupid in believing in Regina's delusion and not pointing out the obvious here?

[Terrafamilia]

When Rumple was ready to kill Hook and absorb all the stolen magic I was hoping the Sorcerer/Author would swoop in and say thanks for doing all my dirty-work for me, I'll be taking that now. Seriously, if the Sorcerer were still around why was that hat basically set out like Dark One bait unless he wanted Rumple to have it? (will the Sorcerer be named Yen Sid?)

 

Speaking of the Sorcerer, does anyone know where they filmed his house, or the exteriors at least?

[Dani-Ellie]

That's the Cecil Green Park House at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. I'm reasonably sure both the exteriors and interiors were filmed there. I know it best at the Candlewick Inn from Harper's Island, but it shows up in a lot of stuff.

[Terrafamilia]

That's the Cecil Green Park House at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. I'm reasonably sure both the exteriors and interiors were filmed there. I know it best at the Candlewick Inn from Harper's Island, but it shows up in a lot of stuff.

Thanks, it's just the sort of place I fantasize as living in. :-)

[ShadowFacts]

 

Seriously, if the Sorcerer were still around why was that hat basically set out like Dark One bait unless he wanted Rumple to have it?

 

That question links back to why did the Apprentice get so easily outmaneuvered by Rumple and Hook in the first place?  Seemed like a set up to me at the time.