S01.E10: Episode 10

[Netfoot]

Since he was killed by a blow to the head, why not stand him at the edge of the cliff and drop him off? That way at least there would have been some question about whether Danny committed suicide.

 

All they had to do was put him somewhere with his head up against the curb and the skateboard near his feet with a stick or a stone between the wheels.  Poor kid!  Skateboarding alone at night!  Fluke accident!  Nobody around to call for help!  Too bad, so sad, never mind.

 

This whole show comes across as if the script was written in five minutes with no time spent trying to inject any sense of realism.

 

Can someone tell me WTF was Joe doing frigging with Danny's cellphone which has been untraceably offline for weeks?

[izabella]

Can someone tell me WTF was Joe doing frigging with Danny's cellphone which has been untraceably offline for weeks?

 

Joe turned it on so as to turn himself in, because he knew the police would be tracking it. 

And all of the actual police work was pointless because Joe just ended up turning himself in by turning the phone on.

 

Carver had already figured out Joe was involved when they had the results from Danny's hard drive.  They found another email account that Danny used to contact only two people - Tom and Joe.

[truthaboutluv]

It definitely seemed like Carver had zeroed in on Joe and/or Tom even before he brought them in for questioning. Because at the start of the episode, when the Chief basically states he has to be taken off the case for his health and says he'll pass the case on to Ellie, Carver says, "that won't be a good idea..." but doesn't elaborate. I think he already had very strong suspicions it was one of them but just needed to try and prove it in the little time he had left before he was taken off the case.

Edited December 12, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[izabella]

I think Danny was using the email to harass Tom, whom he hated at that point because Tom kept asking him to go back to the soccer team, or something like that. 

[Netfoot]

Joe turned it on so as to turn himself in, because he knew the police would be tracking it.

 

Because walking into the copshop and asking to see Carver would have been too dramatic?

 

 

 

Carver had already figured out Joe was involved when they had the results from Danny's hard drive.  They found another email account that Danny used to contact only two people - Tom and Joe.

 

Carver didn't have Danny's hard drive.  He had tom's hard drive.  The other email account was attached to Danny's phone and they didn't have that until Joe had already given himself up.

 

I think he already had very strong suspicions...

 

Based on what?

 

The script tries to make sense of the ending by pretending Carver was already on to Joe/Tom.  Nonsense about how he thought it was Joe from the size of the figure running away from the hut.  No, Carver's thin collection of out-of-thin-air deductions voiced right at the end of the series is supposed to cover for nine episodes of nothing on the part of Carver and the cops.

 

Haven't these people seen Murder, She wrote?  It's fine for the heroic crime-solver, at the end of the show, to list out clues they spotted, but the clues must be clues that the audience spotted too, even if they didn't put it all together. 

 

Let's face it.  They could have gone with anyone being the killer, with it easily as believable as Joe/Tom.  They could have said Gemma/Chloe killed him because he found out Chloe was supplying coke for the hotel on a far more regular basis than claimed, and threatened to go to the cops.  That would have been just as easy to do.  It would have had the added benefit that at least the motive had been hinted at earlier.  The $500 could have been a bribe to keep him quiet. 

 

If they had gone with someone else, would you say they left Joe's suspicious behaviour unresolved?  No, because Joe never did anything suspicious.  In fact, the most suspicious thing about him was that in a town where everyone else was acting suspicious, Joe was cast as lily-white from beginning to end!

 

No, this was a rotten ending to a rotten show.  It stinks like roadkill in the rainy season. 

[orangepeel]

I don't get why people are calling the ending a cliffhanger. So Ellie is covering for Joe. I understand that. Doesn't seem like there's that much at stake. Why would Caver pursue an angle that involves Tom killing Danny?

[iMonrey]

I found the ending pretty unsatisfying and feel like the whole season was one long misdirect. They spent so little time on Joe we never got even a hint that there was something going on with him so the whole thing felt like it came out of nowhere. A proper mystery should have at least thrown us a bone somewhere along the line that maybe Joe was a suspect.

 

I'm trying to piece together what actually happened too, because they left so much unanswered. From what little we finally learned, I got the impression that maybe, just maybe, Danny was starting to realize he was gay, which may be one of the reasons he quit the soccer team, maybe why Mark hit him, maybe why he had a fall-out with Tom. And that he met Joe at the fishing cabin knowing full well what was going to happen, but then backed out at the last minute. I don't know whether that was the case, or whether he just looked up to Joe as a mentor and had no idea Joe wanted more than that until that final moment in the cabin. But when he ran away and Joe said they could just pretend none of it ever happened, Danny actually reacted as though he were hurt by the suggestion that Joe wanted to forget about him. So I'm not altogether sure just what this relationship was to Danny - whether he took up with Joe because he felt he was a kindred spirit, or whether he had no idea Joe was attracted to him.

 

The ending was unnecessarily vague too, with Ellie staring at her sleeping kids like maybe she was about to murder them or something.

 

I didn't think it was a bad show, but as mysteries go it was really a cheat, leaving out vital information that made it impossible to guess who the murderer was, and the "cliffhanger" was something that should have been cut once Fox realized there was zero chance of a second season.

[Chaos Theory]

I think I would have liked it better if it was Joe.....even if the death was a bunch of unfortunate events. The story would have more punch that way. I mean a kid accidentally killing another kind...,yawn.

Still Anna Gunn's performance made it almost sorta worth it to watch. I think I will put her on my "Go List". The list of actors who I will at least take a gander at the show they are on even if the genre isn't really one I usually watch.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[luna70]

Well..... What did I know before episode 10? That it could not be the Priest, Vince or Susan because there was too much attention on those characters.

 

Of course, I missed many clues: Carver telling Miller that she was 'too close', the answer was 'right in front of her', etc..

 

Then we were giving the scene between Ellie and Susan Wright where Ellie is basically yelling at her, saying that she cannot believe that S.W. did not know that her husband was molesting their daughter, murdered, buried her, when she tried to stop him from molesting the younger daughter! (S.W. said her husband said she ran away with some boy and she believed him until the girl's body was found!). I got to look at scenes like those better! After all, Ellie got the same reception in the end!

 

Miller was not right for lead detective. I get you want to 'protect' you kids-totally. But, you find out that your husband is a pedophile, you HAVE to think he molested your kids even it they say 'no, he never touched me!'. Besides, that, trying to 'protect' Tom from 'murdering' his friend is wrong! Tom did not murder Danny! It was accidental!

 

Ellie does not get that Tom was swinging at his father in RAGE! Tom went off -I do not know why, but he saw them in the cabin, heard his father sputtering 'You don't have to tell Tom, your parents', and what Danny said following.. Tom swung that oar in BLIND rage! At his father! The way they wrote his anger, to me, it means that Tom was a victim of his father! 'Leave him alone!' verifies it to me! Tom had no idea at that point that Danny was even there! He was not responsible for Danny's death!

 

On the other hand, Joe was! The police, ambulance, should have been called. They, Joe, could have come up with whatever story for why they were there, but Joe only cared about himself, HIS life! No one would send Tom, at the age of 12, to jail for a death that was accidental! But, a 40 year old pedophile? Oh yeah! And because Ellie is now covering up the rest of it, (if it were real life.) Tom is now hiding the fact that he 'killed' (or so he thinks) his best friend and was molested by his crazy father! Studies, (again if this was real life.) show that those who were molested, tend to be molesters when they grow up!.

 

I am glad there is no season 2 -so far! Then again, FOX can do what CBS did and renew 'Under The Dome' (which was a book by Stephen King) over and over again! Now, if they renew it in a way where Emmett Carver comes back-after surgery-to solve those other murders, okay! Maybe Joe Miller did those too?

[MaryPatShelby]

So. Since Joe knew what had happened to Danny the whole time, why was he so obviously reluctant to let Tom ride the last 3 minutes to school by himself the day he ran away? He KNEW there was no bad guy out there grabbing and killing children.

[truthaboutluv]

Based on what?

 

 

I didn't say it all made sense and it was all obvious. My comment was solely based on the fact that Carver told the Chief passing the case along to Ellie after he left was probably not a good idea and it made me think that he likely already suspected someone in her family. And I do think he could have suspected Tom based on Tom's trying to destroy his computer, which they were later able to retrieve from the hard drive, evidence that he and Danny apparently weren't getting along before Danny died and they weren't friends anymore. Something he never indicated before to Ellie or Carver. Again, I'm not saying the show was perfect by any means or that it didn't have many problems but the comment was just an assumption made by me.

 

So. Since Joe knew what had happened to Danny the whole time, why was he so obviously reluctant to let Tom ride the last 3 minutes to school by himself the day he ran away? He KNEW there was no bad guy out there grabbing and killing children.

 

 

That was actually what I pointed out last week as the thing that made me questioned his being in on whatever happened to Danny. I guess it's one of those things where the writers were trying to throw suspicion off him even to the audience. 

Edited December 12, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[alexvillage]

The writing is so bad, they have established a reason for Danny to be involved with Joe. He seemed to be looking for a father figure, but because dad hit him? This is weak.

Tom was disgusted by his father hitting on Danny and wanted t help Danny and ended up killing him. He is 12, his actions were not the actions of a kid who was traumatized by who his father really is, or who killed his friend. He is not evil, he should have been more troubled by the events, not in a calculating way, but in a 12 year-old way. 

[saber5055]

I have  been a fan and supporter of this show since ep. 1, but I found the finale disappointing. Whomever killed Danny, Joe or Tom, I don't know why, if they were going to cover it up, they carried his body to the beach, cut loose a boat which they rowed to the beach UNDERNEATH THE CLIFF WHERE HE WAS KILLED and then put his body there. The heck? That must have taken a huge amount of time when they could have dumped him over the cliff and chucked the skateboard after him, like he boarded off the cliff to his death.

 

I was thinking Danny and Joe had a "relationship" thing going. Why else would the kid leave his bed to meet Joe at a remote cabin in the middle of the night? Then Danny decided he was done being the victim.

 

Ellie was the worst cop ever. She was dreadful and snotty snarky to Carver. "Don't call me Ellie," and blah blah snotty retorts and comments. She deserves a pedo husband and psycho kid. Glad she's leaving town. I wish nothing good on her.

 

But Anna Gunn is great at being married to dysfunctional men. Breaking Bad was the perfect audition for Gracepoint!

 

I had a big problem with the motel Ellie was put into. What motel/hotel/apartment doesn't have a peep hole in the door? There was a knock and she opens it without seeing who was knocking? Please! Although I did think reporter boy was there to get her "exclusive."

 

No narration on any of my tv shows ever, including this one. To the poster who complained about that, check your menu settings!

 

I'm hoping there will be no S2. Let us imagine Carver confronting Tom. Our imagination will be more satisfying than whatever the show could write.

 

Also: $500 CASH to pay a cell phone bill by a 12-year-old kid? Just how is a little boy suppose to pay? My invoices are all paid with checks or bank transfers. Shouldn't Joe have been taking care of that phone bill himself instead of handing over cash? He weaseled it from Ellie, he could have written then trashed a check or online payment.

 

Oh: I did tear up at all the bonfires being lit around the cove. But, I had to laugh at Ellie saying the entire town was at the beach for the bonfire lighting. There were what, maybe 10 people there, including the Solanos? Gracepoint wasn't THAT small. And what's up that the show couldn't hire a bunch of extras for that scene, they could have gotten unpaid people to show up if they had asked around.

 

ETA: David Tennant was indeed a ginger during that beach scene! I do love me some ginger.

Edited December 12, 2014 by saber5055

[ZoloftBlob]

I was thinking Danny and Joe had a "relationship" thing going. Why else would the kid leave his bed to meet Joe at a remote cabin in the middle of the night? Then Danny decided he was done being the victim.

 

I haven't seen Broadchurch so I am basing what I am about to say strictly on Gracepoint.

 

They copped out. Danny and Joe had to have had a lengthy enough relationship that meeting in an abandoned cabin in the middle of the night wasn't actually *odd* for them. And thats where it falls apart. If Joe was grooming Danny to be his lover to the point that Danny had a cell phone from him and money and was comfortable meeting Joe by sneaking out of the house, Joe was already well down the road of "exhibiting odd behavior". The "how could you not know?" line applies to far too many people in this farce... not just Ellie although she is a big offender. There's no way this was the first time Joe had private time with Danny. If *Tom* was aware of it enough to be jealous and to *sneak out of the house after Joe* then Joe wasn't covering his tracks.

 

How could the Salanos not know? I mean, we're talking about their 12 year old son seeing an adult male. No one in the Salano household struck me as mentally incapable but really, *nothing* seemed off and no one questioned ANYTHING.

 

Gracepoint was actually too big, in my opinion, to have a genuine small town feel.

[iMonrey]

 

Danny and Joe had to have had a lengthy enough relationship that meeting in an abandoned cabin in the middle of the night wasn't actually *odd* for them. And thats where it falls apart.

 

Yeah, and Danny was waiting for Joe at the cabin and they hugged when Joe arrived. Not exactly kid/mentor stuff. That and Danny's reaction to Joe's suggestion that they could pretend it all never happened suggested to me there was more of a relationship going on than just Danny thinking Joe was a good friend. He didn't looked shocked when Joe began to caress his lips, he just looked like he was chickening out on whatever he expected to happen.

 

Also, they made a point of flashing back on the size six shoe prints in the sand near Danny's body, yet Tom was never down at the beach when Joe put Danny's body there. So, WTF?

[truthaboutluv]

They copped out. Danny and Joe had to have had a lengthy enough relationship that meeting in an abandoned cabin in the middle of the night wasn't actually *odd* for them.

 

 

I think they sort of did address this with Joe's confession. Joe told Carver he and Danny had been spending time together for 3 months before that night and that was the first time they met at night at that location. His story was it started when Danny showed up at his house crying and upset after Mark hit him, looking for Tom, but Tom was at soccer practice. So he calmed Danny down and started talking to him and from that point, Danny started coming to the house in the afternoons when Mark and company thought he was at soccer practice.

 

And ymmv but I completely buy the relationship not being physical until that moment when Joe caressed him and Danny freaked out. Multiple stories you hear about pedophiles and child abuse/molestation talk about the "grooming" and that usually involves lulling the victim into a sort of comfort, making them believe that they understand them more than anyone else, that they're "special friends" and that seems to be exactly what was happening with Joe and Danny. Yes maybe part of Danny's issues also included confusion about his sexuality and confusion about how he felt towards Joe but he was 12, a child, so being confused was okay. What wasn't okay was a grown man manipulating that to create a sick, disgusting and illegal relationship with him. Not to mention that Joe helped create more of that confusion with his inappropriate and creepy behavior.

Edited December 12, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[izabella]

Also, they made a point of flashing back on the size six shoe prints in the sand near Danny's body, yet Tom was never down at the beach when Joe put Danny's body there. So, WTF?

 

I wondered about that, too.  Maybe Tom didn't go home when his dad told him, but stuck around to see what he'd do, and then went to see Danny's body in the sand before going home? 

[Quality]

So. Since Joe knew what had happened to Danny the whole time, why was he so obviously reluctant to let Tom ride the last 3 minutes to school by himself the day he ran away? He KNEW there was no bad guy out there grabbing and killing children.

 

An even bigger mistake is the whole "Tom is lost" subplot. When he was found, he said that the reason he wandered out of town in search of the hitchhiker was to "help solve the case". He already knew the solution to the case.

 

Are we to believe that Tom actually hatched a plan to go missing for a couple days "to find a suspect" just to throw people off his scent?

[saber5055]

 

Are we to believe that Tom actually hatched a plan to go missing for a couple days "to find a suspect" just to throw people off his scent?

Well, maybe, except I believe Tom went to Hitchhiker's cabin to plant Danny's crossword book, thus implicating him in Danny's murder. I'm thinking Tom was found that same night of the morning he disappeared, right? So he wasn't gone all that long. But yeah, it's weird Joe was freaked about Tom going alone to school since he knew there was no kid murderer around. Unless he had to stay with Tom for keeping up appearances sake.

 

Also, they made a point of flashing back on the size six shoe prints in the sand near Danny's body, yet Tom was never down at the beach when Joe put Danny's body there. So, WTF?

I don't remember it ever being said size six shoe prints were found around Danny's body. Did we know that and I slept through it? Also, did they announce Joe's adult-sized prints were found? And what size shoe did Susan wear as she stood there smoking?

 

And hey, wasn't that the police guy who hit on Ellie who was at her house as she was leaving for the motel? I was thinking, "Hey, dude, she's available now for that drink."

Edited December 12, 2014 by saber5055

[alexvillage]

I am reading this and so many of us are just trying to fill in the many blanks left by the writers, trying to find reasons for what happened, how it happened, trying to correct the mistakes.

This is annoying (not that we do this, but that the writers left this huge hole in the story)

we can basically have our own version of things and we will probably all correct.

Bad writing

[Chaos Theory]

Is Gracepoint and Rosewood adjacent to each other because Both towns have way more then the per capita of creeper men.

[truthaboutluv]

I don't remember it ever being said size six shoe prints were found around Danny's body. Did we know that and I slept through it?

 

 

It wasn't near Danny's body on the sand but on the grass, around the hut. They found size 6 footprints, along with the size 10 prints. I guess maybe at first Ellie and Carver just assumed the size 6 prints were all Danny because it's likely that he and Tom wore the same size. I think Ellie thought back to that only when she was piecing things together and realized that Tom may have also been there along with Joe. 

[Haleth]

I didn't hate the resolution. I thought it was tragic.

Joe deserved to take the fall because as an adult he should have known better than to strike up a relationship with Danny, let alone lure him out in the middle of the night. Not only did this result in Danny's death, but it also screwed up his own kid.

I'm glad the writers had Joe acknowledge that Jack's death was on his shoulders too.

[Actionmage]

This is annoying (not that we do this, but that the writers left this huge hole in the story),we can basically have our own version of things and we will probably all correct.

 

As a silver lining, I now have an actual good example of not only a bad adaptation,  but also a badly written mystery.  As another poster noted during the series, we should be able to have not only the red herring clues and obvious bits, but the actual, correct clues need to be clear and fairly parceled out. In playing what if with this series, I might be able to unlock how to play fair with clues, if I ever get the nerve to write a mystery. I at least know what not to do! *g*

[Guest]

So. Since Joe knew what had happened to Danny the whole time, why was he so obviously reluctant to let Tom ride the last 3 minutes to school by himself the day he ran away? He KNEW there was no bad guy out there grabbing and killing children.

True.  But at least when Tom went missing, Joe told Ellie, "Don't worry, what happened to Danny didn't happen to Tom," or something.  Which I saw as a clue.  

[maraleia]

Hey Everyone- Just a reminder to keep your posts focused on Gracepoint and what happened in this episode. FYI-I've moved a couple of posts that referenced Broadchurch to the Broadchurch vs. Gracepoint thread.

[saber5055]

Some "clues" that pointed to Joe might have been Joe's freakout that Carver put his hand on Tom's leg during the memorial service. Like Carver was a pedo like Joe is.

 

Also, Nick Nolte was castigated as a pedophile, even though he wasn't. But child abuse was insinuated, like abuse was insinuated when Joe made the pass at Danny.

 

I think if this had been a movie or anything but a network show anyone could watch w/o paying, Joe might have been portrayed as more of a pedophile. And Tom accidentally killing Danny softens what could have really happened, that Tom killed Danny on purpose because of his friendship with his dad and his snotty emails to Tom. I'd be all about that ending, but "regular" tv just can't show a kid killing another kid.

 

So, writing had to be namby-pambied up a bit for the general American public.

[marny]

I was torn between trying to decide if the biggest problem with this mess was the bad acting or the bad writing. I ultimately decided: both. The plot has so many holes and unexplained actions Why did Tom follow his dad when he left the house? Was he suspicious of something? Just nosy? We still don't know. Why did the Solano daughter and her boyfriend keep throwing shade at other townspeople who we know hadn't actually done anything wrong? Why did Vince, a grown man, get a kid's name tattooed on his arm? Because they went secretly hunting together once? Please. And why did he almost shoot the dog? And all the stuff about Rosemont could not have been less relevant to anything. And they kept telling Carver he was suspended, yet kept letting him work on the case. It was all just a jumble of nonsense.

Then there's the acting. Danny's dad was the biggest "smell the fart" actor ever. When Carver told the family it was Joe, Mark looked like Carver told him it was going to rain. Zero reaction. When Tom was in the bathroom telling his mother what happened, I burst out laughing at his attempt to show emotion. And the actor who played Joe looked like he was half-smiling the whole time he was telling Carver he's a pedophile. I can't imagine how bad the auditions for this show must have been if those were the actors who got the roles. Poor Anna Gunn.

[alexvillage]

Vince was also a pedophile. 

Agree about the rest, the holes and bad acting.

 

And the terrible idea to put the whole Solano family in one couch to hear the news about Joe. It seemed too staged and fake. And the daughter looked much older that the mother 

[scarletregina]

The way the "How could you not know" line was delivered made me embarrassed for this show.

[saber5055]

 

Why did Tom follow his dad when he left the house? Was he suspicious of something? Just nosy? We still don't know. Why did the Solano daughter and her boyfriend keep throwing shade at other townspeople who we know hadn't actually done anything wrong? Why did Vince, a grown man, get a kid's name tattooed on his arm? Because they went secretly hunting together once? Please. And why did he almost shoot the dog? And all the stuff about Rosemont could not have been less relevant to anything.

My thoughts: Tom was jealous of Danny's relationship with his dad, and suspected something more was going on between them than them just being pals. Especially in the middle of the night. In my script, Joe and Danny were having "relations." Plus Tom is creepy, so there's that. Do we believe Joe and Tom weren't having relations? I don't believe anything Joe or Tom say about that. Everyone in that town is a liar.

 

The daughter and boyfriend ranked on other townsfolk because they could. There are lots of people like them out there. They post online all the time. IRL, they are called bullies.

 

Vince tattooed Danny's name on his arm because he's a freakazoid and probably a pedo. Who knows what he had going on with Danny inside his closed garage. Use your imagination. If Vince could do it, so could Joe. I know: gross. But it happens.

 

Vince did not "almost shoot" Archie the dog. He pointed his rifle at him and gave a speech about what he wished he could do. He was imagining what he wanted to do to Susan. And he didn't shoot her, either. I've pointed my rifle at a few things and thought evil thoughts. Doesn't mean I did any of what I was thinking. But imagining can sometimes be pretty satisfying.

 

Rosemont was not really important, except we were made to think since Carver didn't solve that, he wouldn't solve Danny's murder either. Because of the Rosemont failure, Carver was sent to Gracepoint because it was a dead end town where nothing more important than a fence being cut (pilot) ever happens. Plus Rosemont allowed Renee to come to Gracepoint and wreak some havoc. So there's that.

 

And the terrible idea to put the whole Solano family in one couch to hear the news about Joe. It seemed too staged and fake.

How should this news have been delivered? What would have been a better scenario? I think all together on the couch was pretty okay. If I were bringing that news, I'd rather say it once than four different times in private.

Edited December 12, 2014 by saber5055

[truthaboutluv]

The way the "How could you not know" line was delivered made me embarrassed for this show.

 

YMMV because I honestly had no issue with this scene. I thought through her facial expression and her voice, Beth seemed a mixture of hurt, angry and disbelief which seemed more than about right to me, considering the situation. 

Edited December 13, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[iMonrey]

In my script, Joe and Danny were having "relations." Plus Tom is creepy, so there's that. Do we believe Joe and Tom weren't having relations? I don't believe anything Joe or Tom say about that. Everyone in that town is a liar.

 

I'm taking it at face value that Joe never touched Danny until that night. However, the way Danny reacted to Joe caressing his lips led me to believe it was not altogether unexpected, and the fact that he agreed to meet Joe in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night, also led me to believe he knew what was probably going to happen. The way the scene played out made it seem more like Danny just chickened out more than anything else.

 

Now, whether that was the intention of the story or just a poor acting performance, I can't say.

 

It also occurs to me that the network and/or writers may have had something in mind akin to Twin Peaks, where the first season finale basically "solved" the who-dunnit mystery but left enough unanswered questions to fill up a potential second season, so it's possible the hope here was they could come back and do more with Vince, Susan, Tom, etc. and maybe turn the whole thing upside down. That may account for the ending feeling rather unsatisfying.

[alexvillage]

 

How should this news have been delivered? What would have been a better scenario? I think all together on the couch was pretty okay. If I were bringing that news, I'd rather say it once than four different times in private.

I didn't like the staging of it. It looked awkward to me, they seemed to be squeezed in that one couch. "Yes, sit down everyone, I have news for you". It didn't have to be a "line up" on the couch. It is nothing but a nitpick of mine. 

[Clanstarling]

I'd have to watch again to see if there were any missed clues about Tom's involvement - there were so many red herrings, they could have been there without my noticing it. But I don't really want to spend any more time with this group of people.

 

A couple of things I wanted to comment on - by hiding what actually happened is far more damaging to Tom than confessing to the accident. Hiding it makes it seem like he did actually do something wrong, when it was an accident. Add guilt over his father taking the blame for murder, and he's going to be even more of an emotional wreck - at best.

 

Also, maybe I'm mistaken, but in the first episode, didn't Danny's mother expect him to be at the soccer game? It seems to me she realized he was missing by going to the game. If Danny had quit the team months before, that doesn't make any sense. Anyone else remember?

[truthaboutluv]

If Danny had quit the team months before, that doesn't make any sense. Anyone else remember?

 

 

They didn't know he'd quit the team. I know in Joe's story when Danny showed up at his house upset because Mark had hit him it was because he'd quit the team but maybe Danny pretended he got back on the team and that was his cover when he was spending afternoons with Joe. 

[maraleia]

Watching this now and really this is how they chose to end this story? So many characters had no impact on the outcome and that irritates me so much. I'm just mad that they chose to remake this show in the first place and that I wasted 10 hours minus commercials watching it.

[alias1]

The way the "How could you not know" line was delivered made me embarrassed for this show.

The actress who played Beth Solano was absolutely the worst in the entire show and the flat delivery of this line conveyed nothing to me.  Mark was almost as bad, but at least he showed real anger when he was talking to Joe through the cell door.

Edited December 13, 2014 by SierraMist

[Actionmage]

So, writing had to be namby-pambied up a bit for the general American public.

 

No, it doesn't really. I think American audiences who watch Fox, and have watched things from OZ to The Sopranos to Breaking Bad to Hannibal to Homeland and House of Cards can deal with a reflection of real life- that sometimes kids kill. Generalizing about an audience that was watching a murder mystery/crime procedural,  when NBC's Law and Order franchises have been showing child/teen killers for over twenty years, is misguided, at best. Maybe infantilizing with the verbiage used.

 

And why did he almost shoot the dog? And all the stuff about Rosemont could not have been less relevant to anything.

 

Vince was pissed at Susan, as she kept coming around and hassling him, in his opinion. He could not, and would not, believe that Susan was his birth mother. When he had a chance, he stole Archie to put the fear of God into her, and to maybe get her to leave him alone. He couldn't shoot Archie, even though he aimed the gun, because he possibly knew that wouldn't help a damn thing.

 

As to Rosemont? It gave us Carver's object lesson of police detectives can have stuff happen under their noses and be totally clueless about said stuff- like Ellie. It also brought in the mother of the dead girl, whose object lesson to Beth was to not let yourself drown in the whirlpool of grief or you may never leave it and find happiness again. It brought Renee the Vulture, who gave Owen a taste of what he could be if he isn't a bit more stringent on his journalistic ethics. Which he may not end up have, if he was totes kewl with breaking HIPPA laws and essentially blackmailing a police detective. It gave us a foreboding air of 'the case may not be solved'/'the cops may eff up the investigation'. It gave us somewhere else in this nasty little world that was built. It was a monkey on Carver's back. 

 

It was relevant, just not directly to the case. It filled out some of our characters, gave us something to wonder/think/muse on in relation to the case and characters, and let us know the town wasn't in some bubble/vacuum- what happened other places could affect the town and vice versa. 

[Netfoot]

...but maybe Danny pretended he got back on the team...

 

Yes, and maybe Vince was a pedophile as well, and maybe Mark hit Danny because maybe Danny dropped out of playing football because maybe he was confused about his sexuality and maybe that's why Tom and Danny stopped being friends.  Maybe Tom stuck around after Joe sent him home and maybe those were Tom's size six footprints on the beach.  Maybe Carver warned the Chief against putting Ellie in charge because maybe he suspected Joe/Tom.

 

And maybe, the writers should have set our minds at rest about some of these possibilities, one way or another, instead of leaving us to wonder.

[Chaos Theory]

So, writing had to be namby-pambied up a bit for the general American public.

 

 

No.   I haven't seen Broadchurch so I don't know who the killer is on that (DON'T SPOIL ME! - I hear it is dropping on netflix soon so DON'T SPOIL ME!) but if the killer was the Joe Character on Broadchurch it make sense Gracepoint would want to change things.  It is not the first time a British show was made into an American one.  I actually think both the American versions of Shameless and Being Human was better then the British versions but the first seasons of both all but copied the first season of their British counterparts.  It was during the second season that they found their own legs and exceeded the original.  

 

Now if Gracepoint had no interest in being a muliseason storyline it had a major problem in that anyone who saw Broachurch knew who the killer was.  It could either keep the same killer or change it.  I think they made a mistake in changing it. (They did change it right?  DON'T SPOIL ME!)   Again if The Joe character in the British version is the killer then it works well for a multi season storyline far  (far far far) better then if it was the kid.  I mean really.  Just with the conversation Anna Gunn's character had with the women who's husband was a pedophile.  It makes more sense if hers turned out to be one as well.  Well he is anyway but still  It hits more of a punch if he is the killer.  

 

As for what an American audience can bear.  Law & order SVU,  Stalker,  Breaking Bad,  Sons of Anarchy,  Dexter,    Sex and Violence on TV are not new things.   Different people have different things they can handle.  I know people who are strictly PG and Family friendly types.  I know others (like me for instance) who love the dark, gritty and violent shows on television

 

<----Edited due to vision & edited problems/

Edited December 13, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Guest]

I didn't like the staging of it. It looked awkward to me, they seemed to be squeezed in that one couch. "Yes, sit down everyone, I have news for you". It didn't have to be a "line up" on the couch. It is nothing but a nitpick of mine. 

Weren't they in the same lineup when the police came and told them it was Danny dead on the beach?  I remember both times thinking, "Wow, that couch really needs a picture over it.  And how awkward for four of you sit on it like that, like ducks in a shooting gallery."  

 

I'd have to watch again to see if there were any missed clues about Tom's involvement - there were so many red herrings, they could have been there without my noticing it. But I don't really want to spend any more time with this group of people.

 

A couple of things I wanted to comment on - by hiding what actually happened is far more damaging to Tom than confessing to the accident. Hiding it makes it seem like he did actually do something wrong, when it was an accident. Add guilt over his father taking the blame for murder, and he's going to be even more of an emotional wreck - at best.

 

Also, maybe I'm mistaken, but in the first episode, didn't Danny's mother expect him to be at the soccer game? It seems to me she realized he was missing by going to the game. If Danny had quit the team months before, that doesn't make any sense. Anyone else remember?

I think Mark was the soccer coach, wasn't he?  So they'd know he had quit.  I think the school called and told Beth Danny didn't go to school and the first place she went was to ask his friends on the soccer field if they'd seen him?  

 

I feel like a strong theme in this wasn't just, "Do you really know the people around you?" but "Do you know where your kids are when they're supposed to be in bed, at school, playing?"  

[J-Man]

No, I do not have a narration feature on my TV - and I am not hard of hearing so would have no reason to enable any feature like that.

 

I did notice that Bones, the show that preceded Gracepoint, had narration which I put down to a peculiar plot set in the 50's - and I only saw 1/2 half of that show.  I have had that station on after Gracepoint and there were no other shows with narration.

 

Thanks you guys for answering my question.  I am curious enough to follow up with my local station tomorrow.

It's called Descriptive Video Service, and it's for blind people, not those that are hard of hearing. It's invoked when you press the SAP (second audio program) button on your TV. This brings up a secondary audio track-- either DVS or Spanish, depending on what's been programmed by the originator. That's the only possible explanation for what happened. (Unless there was some malfunction that caused everyone in your market to receive DVS in place of the regular audio channel.) I had something similar happen to me on TCM a while back -- but only on the HD feed. It worked find on the non-HD version, but in HD I could not turn off the Descriptive Video Service track no matter what I did. Eventually the cable company fixed it, but it took a LONG time for it to happen.

[GreyBunny]

YMMV because I honestly had no issue with this scene. I thought through her facial expression and her voice, Beth seemed a mixture of hurt, angry and disbelief which seemed more than about right to me, considering the situation. 

 

She delivered that line with all of the intensity and gravitas of a Spongebob cartoon.  I thought it was weak acting by a lousy actress.  

Anna Gunn's silly slapfest when she confronted Joe was also an embarrassment.  

 

American audiences can handle complex shows that deal with difficult subjects but the writers and producers of Gracepoint don't seem to think so.  They dumbed it down to the point of being ridiculous and I feel insulted by their writing, acting, and directing choices.  If there is a season two I won't bother to watch.

[Sammich63]

Weren't they in the same lineup when the police came and told them it was Danny dead on the beach?  I remember both times thinking, "Wow, that couch really needs a picture over it.  And how awkward for four of you sit on it like that, like ducks in a shooting gallery."  

 

I think Mark was the soccer coach, wasn't he?  So they'd know he had quit.  I think the school called and told Beth Danny didn't go to school and the first place she went was to ask his friends on the soccer field if they'd seen him?  

 

I feel like a strong theme in this wasn't just, "Do you really know the people around you?" but "Do you know where your kids are when they're supposed to be in bed, at school, playing?"

It's been awhile since I saw this episode, but I thought Beth went to the game and asked why Danny wasn't there. I think it was then mentioned that he wasn't at school, either.

[Guest]

It's been awhile since I saw this episode, but I thought Beth went to the game and asked why Danny wasn't there. I think it was then mentioned that he wasn't at school, either.

You're right, that's how it happened, I checked a recap.  Though Mark was said to have been a coach, so I guess he wasn't expected to be there that day?  

 

I like that they continued the "Beth had no idea what her son was doing" theme, with soccer, too.  Mark didn't even tell her Danny quit, apparently.  Or she was too wrapped in her own problems to pay attention.  

[Lizzing]

Did they ever explain how Joe had a key to the beach hut?  They made such a big deal out of who had keys/access to the hut, but I don't recall Joe ever being one of the people who had keys.  That's not saying it wasn't said, I just don't remember it.

[Tippi Blevins]

I wish the Danny and Tom actors were switched. That Tom kid was... not good. The worst, though, was Mark Solano. I should look up these actors' names, but... Eh. On an acting spectrum of 1 to 10, that guy's range was about 1.0-1.5. 

 

I didn't understand why Tom's "I didn't see anyone else hit Danny" seemed suspicious to Carver, because I took it to mean "I didn't see anyone else (besides Mark Solano) hit Danny." Apparently it meant "I didn't see anyone else besides me hit him." 

 

If the show had been renewed for another season, I would hope that Ellie realizes she's not doing her son any favors by covering up what happened. How's he ever supposed to get help or deal with killing his friend and inadvertently contributing to Jack's death? Of course, he seems like a creepy, flat little weirdo, so maybe he'll be fine with it.

[mledawn]

The kid that played Tom was a terrible selection for the series, his acting was awful - particularly in the bathroom scene.

 

I was pleased that DT's accent improved over the series but it still waivered at times. I wonder how strange it was to be doing essentially a remake with a flat accent, across from different actors. So bizarre.

[benteen]

One review noted the final scene was fitting because Carver and Elle were more adversaries on this show than they were partners.  I have to agree.

 

Yeah, Tom is going to grow up to be a screwed up kid, with the knowledge he killed his best friend, a belief that he's the reason his pedo father went to jail, and a mother who isn't a very good mother.  He's already a creepy little bastard.