Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

7 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

“It’s about the strength of the sisters. That relationship becomes front and center and entirely important

As important as it was when they devoted about 30 seconds to it after Zelena turned herself around and they got their memories of that day together as kids back, and then Regina turned on Zelena, unfairly blamed her, and then they were barely onscreen together for a while? As important as Regina apparently ditching her sister in Storybrooke without a farewell so she could hang out with her adult son? Though we'll likely find out that Zelena hasn't been in Storybrooke this whole time. Because they have such a strong bond that they can easily go off into other worlds without each other without giving it a second thought.

[Rumsy4]

39 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

'Once Upon a Time' First Look: Rapunzel Returns

That's a Colin-stand in, right??! No way that is Colin.

Also, is that his daughter??!

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

As important as it was when they devoted about 30 seconds to it after Zelena turned herself around and they got their memories of that day together as kids back, and then Regina turned on Zelena, unfairly blamed her, and then they were barely onscreen together for a while? As important as Regina apparently ditching her sister in Storybrooke without a farewell so she could hang out with her adult son? Though we'll likely find out that Zelena hasn't been in Storybrooke this whole time. Because they have such a strong bond that they can easily go off into other worlds without each other without giving it a second thought.

Exactly.  They had a prime opportunity to explore that sisterly bond in the scenario they wrote themselves with Zelena moving into the mansion.  Which was immediately abandoned by moving Zelena to the farmhouse so The Evil Queen would have someone to talk to.  A&E would probably claim they were exploring Zelena struggling with the bond that she had with both sides of her sister and how that was reflected with conquering her inner demons for the sake of her newborn.

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Also, is that his daughter??!

From the promo for next week, at least we know Rapunzel is someone WHook meets in the present day. So, she can't be the baby momma. But is she his daughter? Looks like they're going for a Tangled rip-off shout-out with the frying pan. 

ETA: Also, she probably trapped herself, just like the other Rapunzel from Season 3. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

I'm guessing that Mophead is using Drizella and eventually Mophead will take over as the ACTUAL top villain, Drizella will realize she's in over her head and her sob story can begin.

Quote

 Once Upon a Time brings back Rapunzel November 17 for a multi-episode arc that finds the feisty fairy-tale princess—now played by Meegan Warner —eager to get even with the evil sorceress who has kept her spellbound and imprisoned for years.

Another kickass female ready to "get even".  Please don't tell me she's going to knock Whook out and use his body as a springboard to leap out of the tower.  That would be one empowered woman!

Edited November 11, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

22 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Please don't tell me she's going to knock Whook out and use his body as a springboard to leap out of the tower.  That would be one empowered woman!

Please no. Because in this Show, that means they're Twu Wuv.

I missed the part where Rapunzel is in for a multi-episode arc. I donno if that makes it more or less likely to be WHook's daughter or Love Interest. I'm ruling out neither possibility at this point. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

I'm pretty positive that Mophead is Mother Gothel, considering she does magical gardening and is trapped in a tower.

[Camera One]

14 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I missed the part where Rapunzel is in for a multi-episode arc. I donno if that makes it more or less likely to be WHook's daughter or Love Interest. I'm ruling out neither possibility at this point. 

I suppose the most common guess is either she or Alice will be Whook's daughter, and Alice and Rapunzel will be a couple?  

[Rumsy4]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Alice and Rapunzel will be a couple

I'm less sure about that after seeing the promo. Initially I thought there was a possibility Rapunzel was Whook's daughter, but he doesn't seem to recognize her in the promo. And if Rapunzel is only in for limited episodes, would they make her anyone main character's Love Interest? Besides, they seem to have cast a Flynn Rider. 

How about Zelena's kid? Robyn might be the other LGBT character, and they may pair her up with Alice. How old is Alice/Tilly supposed to be? Is she supposed to be in her teens? 

[Camera One]

Interesting... I think I will watch the promo in a few days to give me something more to talk about.  

Good point about Zelena's kid.  I have no idea how old Alice/Tilly is supposed to be.  I love how fleshed out these characters are, LOL.

[Camera One]

I didn't realize that the two-hour episode was next week already!  I'm assuming it's actually two separate episodes but they're just airing on the same night?  Or am I mistaken.  

They could market it as a Special Sequel to Tangled: The Untold Story?  

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

They could market it as a Special Sequel to Tangled: The Untold Story?  

OUAT's Rapunzel: For Realsies This Time

[KAOS Agent]

It appears to be two separate episodes next week. "Eloise Gardener" followed by "Pretty in Blue" That last one sounds like a Cinderella centric, which does not bode well for it considering it will be the second episode aired. I doubt they were planned to be aired back to back, so my guess is that they won't share a cohesive storyline. It looks like A&E wrote 7.11, so I would assume that's the winter finale. If they skip Black Friday to run a holiday special, then that puts the finale on the 15th.

Interestingly, A&E did not write 7.12. I wonder if that means this season isn't written to have a long break like previous seasons. A&E have written the finales and premieres for both the A&B parts of the season since S3 when they started the split seasons.

[Souris]

1 hour ago, KAOS Agent said:

Interestingly, A&E did not write 7.12. I wonder if that means this season isn't written to have a long break like previous seasons. A&E have written the finales and premieres for both the A&B parts of the season since S3 when they started the split seasons.

There's no need for a long break now that it's not on Sundays anymore. A large part of that was because of trying to avoid the Super Bowl and awards shows pretty much all February Sundays.

[KingOfHearts]

Saw a photo of Adelaide Kane during shooting for 7x11, so we know Ivy/Drizella is still alive by then.

[Camera One]

From EW interview:

Quote

What can you tease of what’s next following the reveal that Drizella’s working with the witch?
Adelaide Kane: We get to explore more characters and their backstory, and get to see how far they’ve come, and what’s been going on for them between the time jump from the end of season 6 and now, the beginning of this whole new story and this whole new curse. Naturally things will get far more complicated as we continue on. 

Said as the new and intermittent viewers flee for the exits, LOL.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

19 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

It appears to be two separate episodes next week. "Eloise Gardener" followed by "Pretty in Blue" That last one sounds like a Cinderella centric, which does not bode well for it considering it will be the second episode aired. I doubt they were planned to be aired back to back, so my guess is that they won't share a cohesive storyline. It looks like A&E wrote 7.11, so I would assume that's the winter finale. If they skip Black Friday to run a holiday special, then that puts the finale on the 15th.

Interestingly, A&E did not write 7.12. I wonder if that means this season isn't written to have a long break like previous seasons. A&E have written the finales and premieres for both the A&B parts of the season since S3 when they started the split seasons.

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/once-upon-a-time/listings/

[Camera One]

Why are the upcoming episodes still to-be-announced?  Is that normal?  Why have Christmas specials?  They could do a Very Special Holiday "Once" episode where we find out Mother Gothel was the daughter of Ebeneezer Scrooge and Mrs. Klaus, and she sought revenge after Frosty the Snowman's grandson Olaf used her favorite carrot as his nose so he could imitate his BFF Rudolph the Red-nose Reindeer.  

[Noneofyourbusiness]

16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Why are the upcoming episodes still to-be-announced?  Is that normal? 

Yes. They confirm that an episode is airing in that slot (and whether it's just one episode or double, etc.) in advance of confirming the title.

[KAOS Agent]

I'm not entirely sure that I believe that scheduling. I'd bet they air on the 22nd, which would be the finale episode A&E wrote (7.11) but beyond that things get messy. I wonder if ABC has completely finalized their holiday schedules. Production will get super tight if they air through January - like less than two weeks to finish post production tight.  I assume they'll break for three weeks during the Olympics in February, but they have to break for more than that somewhere. Filming is set to run through April 2 and breaking only during the Olympics would have the season finale airing March 30.  That doesn't work at all. It would make much more sense to break for a couple of weeks during the holidays when people expect breaks rather than randomly in the following months.

[Kktjones]

I'm pretty sure 7x10 is the mid-season finale - it was mentioned in more than one article (perhaps the ones about Zelena and/or Robin's return). So I think 7x10 will air on 12/15 and then I'm guessing they take a break until after the Olympics, so maybe early March. It is interesting that if this is the case, A&E didn't write the finale. They did write the Spring premiere.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Well, I think they want to air enough Agents of SHIELD episodes before taking a break, and the two shows are paired. http://thefutoncritic.com/showatch/marvels-agents-of-shield/listings/

[Rumsy4]

Looks like Alice is WHook's daughter from the episode stills. Yay!

Rapunzel must be the mother, except that makes her and Alice wish people. Sigh. 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I'm not entirely sure that I believe that scheduling. I'd bet they air on the 22nd, which would be the finale episode A&E wrote (7.11) but beyond that things get messy. I wonder if ABC has completely finalized their holiday schedules. Production will get super tight if they air through January - like less than two weeks to finish post production tight.  I assume they'll break for three weeks during the Olympics in February, but they have to break for more than that somewhere. Filming is set to run through April 2 and breaking only during the Olympics would have the season finale airing March 30.  That doesn't work at all. It would make much more sense to break for a couple of weeks during the holidays when people expect breaks rather than randomly in the following months.

There are a ton of competitive reality shows that are ordered but not on the schedule yet.  Given how many there are I think some will spill onto Fridays even though that is unusual.  I think OUAT will take a really long break at some point to get at least one of the competitive reality shows on the schedule. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

With the Witch's hair being more golden in these new promo pics, I'm now leaning towards her being aged Rapunzel.

 

https://www.spoilertv.com/2017/11/once-upon-time-episode-707-708-first.html

Edited November 14, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Camera One]

Title spoiler for 7x13 "Knightfall".  

Let me guess, an innocent male character dies.  Can't wait!

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Let me guess, an innocent male character dies.  Can't wait!

I'm going to be that person - the male representation this season sucks.

Edited November 14, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[cappoe]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Title spoiler for 7x13 "Knightfall".  

Let me guess, an innocent male character dies.  Can't wait!

Please oh please be Rogers. It's not like it matters, he's Fake Hook anyways. Nobody will care, they'd probably celebrate cause Colin will be free. Of course he'd probably have to return for a series finale appearance as real Killian but yes fake Hook dying I'd be all for.

Heck it'd be something that Alice and Robyn(LGBT couple) can bond over, both losing their fathers.

Edited November 14, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, cappoe said:

It's not like it matters, he's Fake Hook anyways.

All Hooks matter!!

[Shanna Marie]

5 hours ago, cappoe said:

Please oh please be Rogers. It's not like it matters, he's Fake Hook anyways. Nobody will care, they'd probably celebrate cause Colin will be free.

I seriously doubt the network would let them do that, since Colin was sort of the main spokesman for the show during all the summer publicity. They won't get rid of Hook until Colin's contract expires, and they'll probably beg him to re-sign. Even if A&E would rather get rid of him, I don't think ABC would be on board with that.

Based on the episode description and promo pics, it looks like the first hour flashbacks will be past-past rather than pre-new curse past, since Wish Hook is having to set aside his revenge when he meets Rapunzel, and it doesn't seem like WHook is still bent on revenge in the present. I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, it's yet another one-off centric instead of advancing the past story in a way that makes us care at all what happens in the present. On the other hand, it's an hour in which we won't have to deal with the lamest resistance movement ever or watch a painfully bad non-romantic romance unfold, with bonus Regina jealousy over her son. It's a Hook centric co-written by David Goodman, which usually bodes well because he writes good Hook. And if WHook gave up revenge when he met Rapunzel, that means fat, drunk Old Hook wasn't because Regina didn't cast the curse but probably because he lost yet another love and his daughter, so that's one less case of Regina casting the curse being a good thing.

But it possibly raises all kinds of weird issues. Since this is in the past in the Wishverse, it's something that didn't actually happen, since that world was created by the Evil Queen wishing for Emma's wish to come true. The people have memories of events, and the consequences of the events they remember exist, but they didn't play out in real time, so we'll be watching something that didn't actually happen. It's also supposed to be a world that's almost exactly the same as the original Enchanted Forest world, except for the curse (and the ages of people related to the Robin Hood story), and there was a Rapunzel already in the original Enchanted Forest who was totally different and had a different reason for being in the tower. If WHook was realm hopping and didn't encounter Rapunzel in Wishverse Enchanted Forest, then things are even weirder because how could he have entered other worlds before he existed? Or are there other realms in the Wishverse? That's a pretty detailed and complicated thing to have come out of a wish. If this alternate reality always existed, like a parallel universe, then Regina really did murder the Charmings, and where was the Emma from that world?

And then there's the timeline. The curse lasted 28 years, then seasons 1-4 were 3-4 years (depending on whether you go by the passage of time or Henry's age), and then there were 3 years or so between seasons 6 and 7, so it's been 34-35 years since the curse was cast if Henry aged faster and little time passed in Storybrooke, probably closer to 40 years if time passed at the same pace Henry aged. If Alice is WHook and Rapunzel's daughter, she's probably in her early 20s, so she was born 13-18 years into what would have been the curse, so WHook at the time of this flashback would be older than Hook is now, unless he stayed longer in Neverland, but then he wouldn't have been as old as he was before he got turned young again.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

The people have memories of events, and the consequences of the events they remember exist, but they didn't play out in real time, so we'll be watching something that didn't actually happen.

I too have mixed feelings about this flashback episode, because it's all fake/implanted memories. Unless A&E switch and pretend that the Wish Verse existed all along. My head is going to implode thinking about this, so I won't. lol

[cappoe]

Quote

Based on the episode description and promo pics, it looks like the first hour flashbacks will be past-past rather than pre-new curse past, since Wish Hook is having to set aside his revenge when he meets Rapunzel, and it doesn't seem like WHook is still bent on revenge in the present. I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, it's yet another one-off centric instead of advancing the past story in a way that makes us care at all what happens in the present. On the other hand, it's an hour in which we won't have to deal with the lamest resistance movement ever or watch a painfully bad non-romantic romance unfold, with bonus Regina jealousy over her son. It's a Hook centric co-written by David Goodman, which usually bodes well because he writes good Hook. And if WHook gave up revenge when he met Rapunzel, that means fat, drunk Old Hook wasn't because Regina didn't cast the curse but probably because he lost yet another love and his daughter, so that's one less case of Regina casting the curse being a good thing.

I'd say Shanna Maria that you're wrong on one thing. Wish Hook didn't love Rapunzel or anybody else for that matter. He said as much to Real Hook in 7x02. He said "I always thought a Captain Hook couldn't find love love" which basically means he didn't love anyone post Milah. Because he never met Emma like Real Hook did. It's very similar to the echo cave speech where Real Hook said basically the same thing, until he added the until I met you about Emma.

So he didn't love Rapunzel, Baby Mama, or whomever else. He loves his daughter but that's it. If he shared TL with anyone else he would never have bothered trying to go to other realms to find Emma. Wish Hook didn't give up on anything when he met Rapunzel, it's his daughter that clearly made him change his ways.

This is all within the dialogue of that scene in 7x02 and it was present day so it happens after everything has happened. W Hook didn't move on from Milah, he loved only her, so Emma still remains the only one any version of Hook has been able to move on from Milah.

Then he talks about misery and heartbreak which is obviously as we learn later dealing with the fact that The Witch took his daughter so he can never find her, and cursed him and poisoned his heart.

Edited November 14, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, cappoe said:

This is all within the dialogue of that scene in 7x02 and it was present day so it happens after everything has happened. W Hook didn't move on from Milah, he loved only her, so Emma still remains the only one any version of Hook has been able to move on from Milah.

There are some anons on tumblr getting bent out of shape over this. Tbh, I've already mentally detached WHook from Hook. But I don't get why he couldn't have felt love for his baby mama, if that's who Rapunzel is. Nobody's saying Hook found True Love with Alice's mother. After all, even Emma loved Walsh in the missing year, even if he turned out to be a fraud. I guess I'm confused why people think WHook loving someone taints CS in any way.

[cappoe]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

There are some anons on tumblr getting bent out of shape over this. Tbh, I've already mentally detached WHook from Hook. But I don't get why he couldn't have felt love for his baby mama, if that's who Rapunzel is. Nobody's saying Hook found True Love with Alice's mother. After all, even Emma loved Walsh in the missing year, even if he turned out to be a fraud. I guess I'm confused why people think WHook loving someone taints CS in any way.

I'm just going based on the dialogue and how he presented himself to Real Hook, that's what he said. He didn't love anyone post Milah, he never moved on from her cause he never met Emma. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

7 minutes ago, cappoe said:

I'm just going based on the dialogue and how he presented himself to Real Hook, that's what he said. He didn't love anyone post Milah.

He didn't find True Love, and that's why he started searching for Emma when he heard about her and the other Hook, but that doesn't mean he may not have fallen in love at all. It could've been a one-sided thing or a brief fling with Alice's mom. Or maybe he adopted Alice after her mom died. Maybe all the kids in HH are adopted!! That would solve many of the time line and wish realm discrepencies. 

I love the smiles on Whook and Alice's faces when they seemingly recognize each other in the episode stills. But it looks like her hands start hurting and she leaves. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Rumsy4

[cappoe]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

He didn't find True Love, and that's why he started searching for Emma when he heard about her and the other Hook, but that doesn't mean he may not have fallen in love at all. It could've been a one-sided thing or a brief fling with Alice's mom. Or maybe he adopted Alice after her mom died. Maybe all the kids in HH are adopted!! That would solve multiple time line and wish realm problems. 

I love the smiles on Whook and Alice's faces when they seemingly recognize each other in the episode stills. But it looks like her hands start hurting and she leaves. 

Yes that's what it means. He never was able to move on post Milah. So baby mama, Rap, whomever else, did not deter him from his revenge. He loved no one else post Milah. His daughter is what turned him from his revenge.

[RadioGirl27]

I’ve seen a theory about the character played by Nathan Parson that I kind of like, that he is an adult Roland Hood. This pic makes me think it can be true. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by RadioGirl27

[Camera One]

I just watched the promo for the "2 hour event", and it's all over the place.  I can't see how it would attract anyone to watch, old or new. 

First, they show a snippet of Rapunzel (good start for new viewers), and then a snippet of Alice ("I thought I warned you to go home", she says... that was six episodes ago), and then Henry and Cinderella sword-dancing, and then the dead body that Whook found last week.  The voiceover makes no sense "Where mystery... and adventure... leads to an astounding revelation" and yet they end with Roni asking Weaver what the name "Rumplestiltskin" means to him and Weaver saying "Rum..ple...stilt...skin" vvvveerrrryy slowly.  How is that an "astounding revelation"?  

Why is the trailer maker still putting Henry and Cinderella front and center?  Are they practicing sword fighting or something?  I guess they can't bond over anything else because they seem to have nothing in common.

So the only thing you get from the promo is Whook meets Rapunzel, and Roni questions Weaver, and that's it.  It screams 2-hour filler.

[KAOS Agent]

It better have something big at the end because they're not back for three weeks after this one. Breaking for so long after a Cinderella-centric seems like a really, really bad idea. I don't think this was a planned double episode when they were writing them, so there may not be anything particularly compelling to end on. 

[Shanna Marie]

9 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Tbh, I've already mentally detached WHook from Hook. But I don't get why he couldn't have felt love for his baby mama, if that's who Rapunzel is. Nobody's saying Hook found True Love with Alice's mother. After all, even Emma loved Walsh in the missing year, even if he turned out to be a fraud. I guess I'm confused why people think WHook loving someone taints CS in any way.

We know Hook had the capacity to turn himself around when he met someone he admired. In the Prime universe, it was Emma, but I don't have a problem with it being someone else he encountered in a universe where Emma was young enough to be his daughter. If it's Rapunzel, then there's a common thread of finding someone when climbing something. I think it speaks better of Hook as a person if his turnaround isn't limited to one particular person, if it's something that can have happened in other ways. If the Mophead witch is Rapunzel, then maybe Rogers can turn her to help the good guys.

I never said anything about true love, but the episode description talks about him going for revenge, but an encounter with Rapunzel changes his destiny. That may or may not mean meeting her turns him away from revenge, at least for a while. We know something has to have gone horribly wrong for him to have been separated from the mother of his child and from his daughter, which would have sent him on a new revenge path. It may also mean we're getting the Standard Issue Hook Flashback, in which he meets someone while going after revenge, initially plans to help, but gets sidetracked by the revenge thing and screws them over. I was mostly focusing on the fact that if he was aiming for revenge, that means it's a past-past flashback.

If they're doing the fairy tale version of Rapunzel rather than the Tangled version, Rapunzel gets pregnant when the prince climbs the tower to visit her, then the witch figures it out, pretends to be Rapunzel and lures him up, only to cast him down so he falls into thorns and is blinded and casts Rapunzel out of the tower with her twin babies. So the parallel could be Hook meeting Rapunzel in the tower, they have a fling, the witch catches him and does something to separate them and keeps the daughter away from him.

ETA: I'm not so sure about Alice being WHook's daughter, in spite of the way the photos look. If the missing girl is the HH version of WHook's daughter, wouldn't Rogers have recognized Tilly? Surely any person missing in the 21st century would have some photo of them, and even if she's grown up since then, she'd still look familiar, and that's if they didn't do that milk carton photo thing of aging them to the present to show how they might look. As obsessed as Rogers is, you'd think he'd at least have a "hey, you look familiar" moment with Tilly that would lead to him staring pensively at a photo of the missing girl. I would have said that it would be awfully anticlimactic if WHook's epic search for his long-lost daughter amounted to bumping into her and "hi, Dad" after he did absolutely nothing toward finding her, but then again this is the show that had the epic search for Cinderella amount to "hey, you dropped your shoe" an episode later, so there's no telling. Maybe the appearing to be glad to see each other thing in the photos is that Alice is WHook's Ariel, the sort-of kid sister type he bumps into occasionally on his travels.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Shanna Marie
brilliant insight moments after posting

[Curio]

Man, it's been a while since I've speculated on spoilers.

I've always found it odd the way Whook described his chess interactions with his daughter. Apparently, he was able to easily sneak into a prison every day to play chess with her, but he never tried to break her out? You'd think if he found a way to break in every day, he could easily sneak her out when he left. The way he described it, it almost seemed to me like a struggle for visitation rights rather than trying to save his daughter from a random witch.

Based on the episode photos, it really does look like Alice is Whook's daughter, and I could see how young Rapunzel could turn into the weird mophead witch in Belfrey's tower. (Why else give the witch weirdly long hair with braids?) In flashbacks, maybe young Whook and Rapunzel have a fling after he climbs her tower, and Rapunzel gives him the cliche OUAT speech about how "love is more important than revenge, why can't you stay with me and give up your vengeance?" But Hook decides revenge is more important and ditches Rapunzel in the tower and breaks her heart. After Whook leaves to find that "dark and powerful magic," Rapunzel discovers she's pregnant, which means Rapunzel has to give birth to Alice by herself in the tower and can't tell Whook he has a child because she has no idea where he is. (Shades of Neal...and we all know how much these writers love recycling old plots.) So Rapunzel is essentially a single mom until Whook randomly pops back into her life a few years later. Rapunzel keeps young Alice as sheltered as possible in the tower "prison" she grew up in, but when Whook discovers Rapunzel is secretly raising Alice and also realizes Rapunzel doesn't want him to be a part of Alice's life, that's when he decides to sneak in and play chess with Alice every day without telling Rapunzel. When Rapunzel finds out he's been doing this, she banishes him and curses his heart. That makes the speech Whook gave Hook a little more plausible, and this way, there's a lot more emotional tension in Hyperion Heights when Rapunzel, Rogers, and Tilly interact with each other. This could also be the reason why Victoria is working with Rapunzel—she realizes Rapunzel is also looking to reconnect with a daughter, and that's their shared connection.

[Rumsy4]

9 minutes ago, Curio said:

Man, it's been a while since I've speculated on spoilers.

And I think you nailed it with your spec. Hah!

[Katherine]

I'm a huge Emma/Hook fan and I'm not very invested in Whook (or in this reboot--I've barely watched all season), but I kind of like the idea of Rapunzel and Whook together. It could be fun to see Hook in a different romance, maybe one that's a bit more flirtatious and fun, like the early days of CS. And I don't think it taints CS at all, considering Whook is a completely different character. If a real person can fall in love with different people throughout his/her lifetime, then surely a different version of a person can fall in love with someone else. Even Real Hook loved both Milah and Emma. I also like the idea of Whook having a daughter, and of this being his central, "true love" relationship. It's almost enough to motivate me to catch up on the episodes I've missed. Almost.

[cappoe]

It's not about whether if a different person can fall in love with someone else or not it's about Wish Hook and what he said to Real Hook. "I never thought a Captain Hook could find love. And then in another realm I found out....you had". That's why he wanted to find Emma and that's why he searched for her, because he knows it's true love and he needed it to break his curse. If he found love already he would never have said that and he certainly wouldn't have gone to the lengths he did to get with Emma, his confirmed true love. 

This is the canon dialogue. This isn't me twisting it, this is what Wish Hook said. He never thought a Captain Hook could find love. When he was with Milah he was Killian Jones so he's talking about when he became Captain Hook, he did not find love again, period.

And we can agree to disagree because I absolutely think it can taint CS and disrespect it and make it not special anymore.

You're telling me that Wish Hook meets Rapunzel once, falls in love with her and that's all she wrote. That's the only thing that needs to happen for him to let go of his revenge. Meanwhile Real Hook not only met Emma, he got to realize when he believed he killed Rumple that his life was empty and he needed something else to live for. And then Emma offered him the chance to be a part of something. This was his whole arc in S2. 

How could anybody look at that and not think that is completely insulting CS and the special connection they had and trying to taint it? Real Hook may as well have gone and found Rapunzel cause apparently that was enough for him to realize right then and there just being with her that he could move on from his revenge. While with Emma it took so much more then just meeting her. It is absolutely insulting the special story they told for 5 seasons with Captain Swan. Emma wasn't so special after all apparently, that's how that sounds if they just have it be that easy as meeting Rapunzel for him to let go of his revenge.

So yeah there is a big issue with this, but like Wish Hook clearly said he didn't think a Captain Hook could find love, which means he never did. Because he never found Emma and he did try to find her and he crossed realms to find her. He does not love the baby mama or anyone else.  The true love for Wish Hook is his child, the baby mama is probably someone he doesn't like and he definitely does not love her.

Edited November 15, 2017 by cappoe

[Curio]

13 minutes ago, Katherine said:

I kind of like the idea of Rapunzel and Whook together. It could be fun to see Hook in a different romance, maybe one that's a bit more flirtatious and fun, like the early days of CS. 

 

Haven't the fans been saying CS is like OUAT's version of Rapunzel/Flynn Rider for years? Of course the OUAT writers would go and make Whook their version of Flynn Rider and then pair him with an actual Rapunzel.

6 minutes ago, cappoe said:

You're telling me that Wish Hook meets Rapunzel once falls in love with her and that's all she wrote.

 

I don't think that's what's being said. Whook and Rapunzel could meet, make out, accidentally make a baby, and still not be in love with each other. Lots of people have purely physical relationships without it veering into True Love.

[cappoe]

4 minutes ago, Curio said:

Haven't the fans been saying CS is like OUAT's version of Rapunzel/Flynn Rider for years? Of course the OUAT writers would go and make Whook their version of Flynn Rider and then pair him with an actual Rapunzel.

I don't think that's what's being said. Whook and Rapunzel could meet, make out, accidentally make a baby, and still not be in love with each other. Lots of people have purely physical relationships without it veering into True Love.

Yep another slap in the face to CS fans, thankfully the real story of Tangled took place on this show over the course of 6 seasons and has nothing to do with this flop of a season.

And I highly doubt we will even see Wish Hook kiss a person. Lets remember they have never shown any version of Hook kiss anyone but Emma. Not even Milah.

And it's not a pair, they said Hook is not getting a love interest, they're not pairing him up with anybody. His story is about his daughter, the mother is not a LI whomever she is. Hence why Wish Hook didn't even talk about looking for the mother even in death. Just the child, cause that's his true love. If the mother was someone important to him he'd be looking for her too, and he isn't. And he definitely wouldn't have gone looking for Emma if he shared TL with the baby Mama and done all he did to get with Emma.

Edited November 15, 2017 by cappoe

[Katherine]

2 minutes ago, cappoe said:

It's not about whether if a different person can fall in love with someone else or not it's about Wish Hook and what he said to Real Hook. Basically stating that he never found love post Milah. Because he didn't think a Captain Hook could find love. Not till he heard that in another realm, the real Hook had with Emma. That's why he wanted to find Emma and that's why he searched for her, because he knows it's true love.

This is the canon dialogue. This isn't me twisting it, this is what Wish Hook said. He never thought a Captain Hook could find love. When he was with Milah he was Killian Jones so he's talking about when he became Captain Hook, he did not find love again, period.

And we can agree to disagree because I absolutely think it can taint CS and disrespect it and make it not special anymore.

You're telling me that Wish Hook meets Rapunzel once falls in love with her and that's all she wrote. That's the only thing that needs to happen for him to let go of his revenge. Meanwhile Real Hook not only met Emma, he got to realize when he believed he killed Rumple that his life was empty and he needed something else to live for. And then Emma offered him the chance to be a part of something. This was his whole arc in S2. 

How could anybody look at that and not think that is completely insulting CS and the special connection they had and trying to taint it? Real Hook may as well have gone and found Rapunzel cause apparently that was enough for him to realize right then and there just being with her that he could move on from his revenge.

So yeah there is a big issue with this, but like Wish Hook clearly said he didn't think a Captain Hook could find love, which means he never did. Because he never found Emma.

I wasn't specifically referring to your post, just to general concerns in the fandom about a possible romance between Whook and Rapunzel. My opinion is that, as much as I love CS, it could be fun seeing Whook and Rapunzel together (especially with the Tangled parallels...or rip-offs), and no, I don't believe it would taint CS in the slightest. I see your point regarding Whook's statement that he never found love, and I'm not saying Rapunzel and Whook will definitely end up falling for each other. But I also won't be surprised if they do--it wouldn't be the first time the writers contradicted something said in an earlier episode. It also wouldn't be the first time characters fall in love after one meeting. And like Curio said, it could also just be a case of them making a baby together but not falling in love. It doesn't really matter to me either way. I'm pretty sure there's nothing the reboot can do to get me invested, but it wouldn't hurt to inject a bit of fun and flirtiness from Hook. I didn't realize this would be such a hot button issue but I respect the passion for CS :)

[cappoe]

Writers already said Hook is not getting a love interest, especially in the first half. And if Wish Hook was in love with Rapunzel he would have never gone off looking for Emma, and going to the lengths he did to be with her to cure his heart. And he also would have mentioned the mother as someone he was looking for a long with the daughter. That did not happen, it's just the daughter. So no there's no love here which is why it's not a parallel to Tangled unless you're suggest Flynn and Rapunzel didn't love each other in the end? And he knocked her up and left her and then Rapunzel became Mother Gothel.  

Like I said whomever baby Mama is, is probably someone he is not fond with and likely put money is the person that cursed him. So no he's definitely not in love with the baby mama whomever she is.

Edited November 15, 2017 by cappoe

[Katherine]

9 minutes ago, cappoe said:

Writers already said Hook is not getting a love interest, especially in the first half. And if Wish Hook was in love with Rapunzel he would have never gone off looking for Emma, and going to the lengths he did to be with her to cure his heart. And he also would have mentioned the mother as someone he was looking for a long with the daughter. That did not happen, it's just the daughter. So no there's no love here which is why it's not a parallel to Tangled unless you're suggest Flynn and Rapunzel didn't love each other in the end? And he knocked her up and left her and then Rapunzel became Mother Gothel.  

Like I said whomever baby Mama is, is probably someone he is not fond with and likely put money is the person that cursed him. So no he's definitely not in love with the baby mama whomever she is.

Honestly, I haven't followed season 7 news very closely, so if the writers said Whook won't be getting a love interest, that's great news for you. I hope he gets to show more of a fun side some other way, then. I remember liking Hook as a character and enjoying his story even before he got together with Emma, so it would be nice if the writers used Whook as an opportunity to explore some of the non-Emma related things that made Hook a fun and compelling character. As it stands right now (from the limited bits of the season I've seen), there hasn't been much in the way of giving Whook characterization beyond his seach for his daughter. While I loved CS, because of all the obstacles they faced (particularly in the last two seasons), Hook tended to be kind of gloomy and grumpy, and we didn't always get to see his lighter side or his character development beyond his relationship with Emma, IMO.

[Rumsy4]

11 minutes ago, cappoe said:

And if Wish Hook was in love with Rapunzel he would have never gone off looking for Emma, and going to the lengths he did to be with her to cure his heart.

There is a difference between love and true love in the OUAT verse. Even if he had temporarily fallen in love with Rapunzel, clearly it didn't last. Only True Love could break his curse. Which is why he was looking for Emma. It's not like Hook Prime kept himself chaste until he met Emma. And he was ready to give up his revenge for Baelfire. Emma was not the first person to awaken a desire for redemption in him.

It's possible WHook had some feelings for Rapunzel, but she threw him over and chose her Revenge. That would be a nice reversal from the typical Hook flashback where he is the one to choose revenge. 

14 minutes ago, cappoe said:

So no there's no love here which is why it's not a parallel to Tangled 

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers thought giving Rapunzel a frying pan and having WHook climb the tower was enough to make it a Tangled parallel/shout-out/rip-off. 

7 minutes ago, Katherine said:

if the writers said Whook won't be getting a love interest

Eddy also said "never say never" in another interview. It's not like A&E haven't changed their minds before or even straight up lied.

At the end of the day, the writers are doing their best (okay not the best, but their typical phoning-in) to give WHook a story-line while they left CS happy in Storybrooke. But the writers can't really work around people freaking out every time WHook/Rogers has a scene with any woman. It just makes things too convoluted.