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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

I suspect that there will be a significant time jump between the finale and premiere, several months at least.

 

I think we're looking at a 5 month time jump. I think the tricky part in all of this is whether they want baby Green to be born on screen or not. If they don't, then the time jump might be longer than that. I think they lost all interest in that storyline anyway.

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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

I'm on board for Emma and Killian's joint adventure through the UW provided they are together. They can take all the time they like with epic snark-fests between CS and The Amazing Greg Germann (so excited he is on thr show!) and trying to outwit each other while avoiding a vengeful crew of villains ESPECIALLY if Regina isn't with them to drag things down to melodrama. .

Just salivating at this. ..hmm !!

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CatMack

CatMack

I wonder if the returning characters will actually be themselves or some kind of trick.  I'm thinking of the way the First Evil turned into long dead characters in the final season of Buffy - it was an established tactic of that entity to torment its victims but it provided the showrunners a really convenient way to parade some familiar faces one last time.  Maybe Hades is screwing with people.  That could give them some leeway if, for instance, they need young Bae instead of older Neal because of actor availability - I think young Bae would be better for tormenting Rumple and/or Hook.  Older Cora is a much better way to screw with Regina than young Cora (plus Rose McGowan has pretty much quit acting at this point to focus on behind the scenes stuff).  It would also explain why some dead characters "come back" while others don't.  

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Hookian

Hookian

So based on the pics posted in the Spoilers thread, it definitely looks like Hell has come to SB! Poor Emma's bug.

 

I still say it's gonna be the same storyline as this half. FB will be UW and Present day will be UW in SB.

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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

I tend to think somebody powerful isn't a happy camper ...or the Darkness has free reign ..but Hades and fire go together. ...I think this might be a case of hand over whoever escaped from the UW or I'm going to break all your toys!

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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

Remember when the press release said Regina suffers a huge loss and it was Sydney's double cross? lol

 

Anyways how the hell did Emma get Hooks ring? That ring she's wearing looks exactly like the one he wore on his chopped hand. Did she still it from Gold? Y'all know she use to steal.

 

 

Maybe Hook had more than one ring of that design? It might not be completely identical. He could have a stash of rings buried somewhere. He is a pirate after all.

 

Watching the promo it looks like Emma actually grasps the ring around her neck while she's looking at the dagger spin through Dark One names.  It makes me wonder if it really is Hook's ring (because how did that happen?) or perhaps Nimue's and that's how she's able to summon her with the dagger?

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

They're not fooling around with 5x12, are they? Torching the bug, knocking the freaking clocktower down... this is gonna be nuts! Cora, Pan, Hades... ahhh!!

 

 

Or hell looks like some sort of AU Storybrooke...

Stop, Retrograde! You're making me wish for a memory-less SB with alternative identities... ;)

 

 

I tend to think somebody powerful isn't a happy camper ...or the Darkness has free reign ..but Hades and fire go together.

I'm not totally sure if Hades is just out to cause destruction. He's probably someone you don't want to mess with, but I can't see him just going on a rampage.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

It's totally a result of Baby Snowflake's power surging uncontrollably when he's unhappy because his parents aren't paying any attention to him.

Hades origin story? I wouldn't expect anything less from the spawn of the evil White family.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

The burned bug is depressing. They really should find a way to dump on Emma more. Does she have a pet the villains can kick around?

I am going to choose to see this as another ending to one of the FuckWitFire consequences. ..cos all my mind sees when I see that VW is Emma being stat raped :o (( and screwed over.

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mjgchick

mjgchick

I am going to choose to see this as another ending to one of the FuckWitFire consequences. ..cos all my mind sees when I see that VW is Emma being stat raped :o (( and screwed over.

I wish I could feel that way but Emma's made the bug her home and I just don't know if I should be happy or not about it. :(

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Dianthus

Dianthus

That tombstone is way too old and faded to be for a recent death.

 

Unless maybe it turns out he's really been dead all along, and that's why he seems to be a "survivor" because you can't kill a dead man -- and then they find his ancient grave, brought over by the curse. He's just been a corporeal ghost (yeah, I just made that up) all this time.

The term you're looking for is "manifest spirit." Thanks, Spike (and BtVS writers). 

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KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

(edited)

Okay folks because I have major issues, I discovered that the grave you're all looking at is possibly that of Lillian Clara Jones. No joke. The Eveleigh/Kirk stone gave away the location and a search for the name Jones one row away shows that woman. It's seriously weird if that's just a coincidence and she just happens to be buried right next to where they are "burying" Killian Jones.

Edited by KAOS Agent
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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

I suspect that any of the presumably one-off returning dead characters will be villains because:

1) It's beyond clear at this point that the show cares more about the flashy villains than the good guys. Out of all the characters who have "died" it's people like Rumple and Zelena who get to come back to life.

2) There are so many more dead non-evil characters than there are dead bad guys. Where would they possibly draw the line? There's Graham, Neal, Leopold, Eva (despite how the show wants us to think she was oh so horrible), Ruth, Liam, Mrs. Patmore, Daniel, Marian (even though the PTB couldn't care less about her), Peter, Gus, Whale's brother, Belle's mom, and more I can't recall at this moment. This show sure loves it's sympathy-inducing dead relatives backstories, doesn't it? Sure, some of the characters they were important to are rarely seen anymore, but IMO if the underworld is showing up and it includes dead loved ones then you should include all the dead loved ones.

3) The actors who played the two biggest "good" characters to bring back, Neal and Graham, are probably the least available at this time. Bae is a possibility still if only because he's important to both Hook and Rumple, and Emma and Henry if they want to get really weird. Still, I think it's easier to explain a hell-like underworld restoration full of villains wanting to rise again than it would be a bunch of at rest good guys breaking through to the otherside.

Milah, James, Henry I, and Ingrid are characters that could be fit in either category, IMO, even though I don't think Milah was really that bad. I doubt the showrunners care enough about James to bring him back (which is funny considering it's the one actor they know for sure would be available) unless it's just for humor.

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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

Been looking at the headstone that is suspected to be Killian's. Pretty sure the second name is Jones an the first 2 letters of the first name are defnitely KI - and if you look at the sculptures on both sides of the stone the top sectons look very suspiciously like the handle of Excalibur . ..

 

Also, clearest photo I've seen yet of the ring on Emma's chain in Camelot is here http://we-should-buckle-some-swash.tumblr.com/

I don't think it is Killian's 'date' ring. It doesn't have enough decoration on the side next to the stone. I thought it might be one of Merlin's - the one from his right hand - but again too plain next to the stone.

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daxx

daxx

I am guessing it is a ring of Nimue's that Merlin gives Emma to help in the quest. Maybe to communicate with Nimue foreshadowing Emma communicating with Killian on the other side in Swan Song.

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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

(edited)

..the very first thought I had when I saw what looks like some post-apocalyptic version SB in those pics was....the illusion sand has worn off. I know that isn't the case but I can't help but think we're not done with that sand yet...somehow somewhere it's going to pop up again...could you use it to 'fix' the appearance of death do you think?

replayed Merlin's message at the end of 5x06...he is absolutely standing in Grannies so it had to have been 'recorded' but not for one minute do I think the DO that causes him to cut off is Emma. Still think he deliberately stayed behind in EF to try and stop the 1st DO coming after Emma. We do know too early for the reveal on how Emma went full dark (I think that is in 'Birth' - yes?)...so whatever happens with her and Merlin next ep...which I suspect is the catalyst but not the final trigger unless it is the last scene and 'Birth' opens with her transformation. ..but I don't get that vibe.

Edited by PixiePaws1
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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Holding on to some hope for the burned Bug -- what if this is some kind of It's a Wonderful Life scenario, like Emma is regretting taking on the Darkness because of losing Hook and whatever other consequences there were, and then she gets to visit what the town would be like if she hadn't done so, and realizes it's even worse.

 

Mostly because I can't see these guys messing with the status quo enough to actually make such major changes in the town, including changing some of the shops around.

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

Just saw the burned bug. :(

I wish there'd be a change of status quo after these events; maybe not character-wise, but I'd be up for a permanently destroyed clock tower or something (even though that seems to be one of the staples of the show).

I keep thinking of how Merlin's not around in Storybrooke. I wonder if anyone's even suggested looking in his house? he's probably not there, and that house probably wasn't in the budget, but have the heroes even looked for Merlin to make sure he's not locked up in a basement or something?

So if zelena causes problems for mulan/merida/red. Then she either escapes from Regina's clutches in this next episode or the 1st half of 5x08. I have a feeling it'll be a the end of this coming episode.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

I keep thinking of how Merlin's not around in Storybrooke. I wonder if anyone's even suggested looking in his house? he's probably not there, and that house probably wasn't in the budget, but have the heroes even looked for Merlin to make sure he's not locked up in a basement or something?

 

 

Well, they now know what he looks like, so they can search for him. They're also assuming that Emma did something to him, so maybe they think he's dead, so they won't look for him.

 

I think Merlin has become inconsequential, and they moved the story from what Merlin can do, to Nimue.

 

So the question is, why is Nimue so important? I'm not so sure that she's the original Dark One anymore. I mean that might be debunked during 5x07, and they will be like, she is the original Dark One, so we'll see.

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Curio

Curio

Holding on to some hope for the burned Bug -- what if this is some kind of It's a Wonderful Life scenario, like Emma is regretting taking on the Darkness because of losing Hook and whatever other consequences there were, and then she gets to visit what the town would be like if she hadn't done so, and realizes it's even worse.

 

I feel like we've been calling for an "It's a Wonderful Life" episode for a while now. But I would have preferred that kind of homage to happen when Emma was questioning her Savior status, not her Dark One status. One focuses on all the good things Emma has done for the town and how much she makes a positive influence on others, while the other is like, "Yeah, you did some bad things as the Dark One, but look...it could have been even worse if you hadn't done those less worse things!" It sounds like something the writers would use to excuse Regina's actions, and I don't want them ruining Emma like that.

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

(edited)

Hades origin story? I wouldn't expect anything less from the spawn of the evil White family.

 

That would be a departure from the classical origin story of Hades as the firstborn son of Cronus and Rhea who chose Hades as his domain after he, Zeus, and their middle brother Poseidon overthrew Cronus and rescued both themselves and their three sisters, Hestia, Demeter, and Hera from certain destruction at Cronus' hands (he actually devoured all of them at birth except the youngest, Zeus, and was later tricked by his wife and mother Gaea into eating a violent emetic which forced him to vomit them all back up alive, after which all six children, led by Zeus, defeated him).  Because Zeus had spearheaded the charge against Cronus, he got first choice, so he picked Heaven (including Mt. Olympus), Poseidon took the oceans and seas, and Hades took -- well, Hades.

Edited by legaleagle53
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maryle

maryle

Spoiler are getting facisnating ! but so hard to read!

UW comes to Storybook is really depressing! I want the Bug back!

For Hook, I will wait and see maybe maybe... Today will clearer the picture a little bit.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Because Zeus had spearheaded the charge against Cronus, he got first choice, so he picked Heaven (including Mt. Olympus), Poseidon took the oceans and seas, and Hades took -- well, Hades.

 

So Hades' origin story is how he got picked on by his siblings?

 

Not sure who this Helga person is.

She works on the show. She's the one who posted that captain mug last season when they were filming 4x15.

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sharky

sharky

I'm starting to wonder if this trip to the Underworld is Hook's "This is Your Life" flashback. All the people who we have as returning are somehow connected to him -- his father, Cora, Pan, etc. It also may be able to explain why Colin was on set in pirate costume with the actor playing his father. Perhaps the pirate stuff comes back out of the closet as he has to face his past in order to get back or something like that.

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Souris

Souris

(edited)

Okay folks because I have major issues, I discovered that the grave you're all looking at is possibly that of Lillian Clara Jones. No joke. The Eveleigh/Kirk stone gave away the location and a search for the name Jones one row away shows that woman. It's seriously weird if that's just a coincidence and she just happens to be buried right next to where they are "burying" Killian Jones.

 

Now that is initiative! They may have turned Lillian into Killian with props for the shoot, and that's why the headstone is weathered.

 

OK, how random is it that the Hansel & Gretel witch is returning for the 100th ep??

Edited by Souris
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

(edited)

Very random returnee for the 100th ep.

That is completely random!

 

It'the parade of villains. I can expect no less from these writers.

 

ETA - 

 

I don't think this isn't villains escaping as much as villains being released from the underworld to wreck havoc on the town.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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Souris

Souris

It'the parade of villains. I can expect no less from these writers.

 

Exactly. It's a celebration of their favorites! Seems clear they're only bringing back villains. They could stick Neal in there since he was absorbed by the Dark One for a time there. Toasted Bagel in hell!

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

(edited)

The Blind Witch? Maybe they're finally going to explore the fact that Regina sent a bunch of children to their deaths?

Kidding, kidding. That'll never happen.

*starts to chant* I want Felix! I want Cruella! I want Ingrid!

Those are the only ones left I really care about.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

It'the parade of villains. I can expect no less from these writers.

Bingo. A&E are outdoing the villian overload of 4B with a veritable orgy of villains from the Underworld no less.

The Blind Witch? Maybe they're finally going to explore the fact that Regina sent a bunch of children to their deaths?

Not a chance in... Hell. :-) If anything, Hansel and Gretel will be apologizing to the Blind Witch for stealing from her.

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kili

kili

(edited)
Well, they now know what he looks like, so they can search for him.

 

They do now. He toadstool-skyped them from the EF.

 

Then she either escapes from Regina's clutches in this next episode or the 1st half of 5x08. I have a feeling it'll be a the end of this coming episode.

 

I'm pretty sure in this episode picture, Zelena is saying "I'd love to help you, but I have this cuff on" or something like Rumple said when he didn't want to go into Pan's encampment without magic or a weapon (perhaps she will take Hook's sword again and then use it to chop off her hand).

 

Mostly because I can't see these guys messing with the status quo enough to actually make such major changes in the town, including changing some of the shops around.

 

I don't think the average person notices that the shops change around. They changed the Vet Clinic that David worked to (and we visited) into Any Given Sunday and the general audience didn't seem to notice. Even though, it is quite prominent and beside Grannies. They've gotten rid of the habbedashery store (IIRC, it became a law office) and added Bo Peeps shop. They ran past an empty parking lot and two episodes later, it held the city jail.  So, I think they could have the Morturary there for one episode and nobody would blink an eye if it went back to being the shoe store again a few episodes later. It's like the toilet in Joey and Chandler's appartment. From the outside, the toilet is right in front of the door (open it and there is the toilet on the left side of the room), but when you are in the bathroom, it is behind the door - door swings open and there is a clear path to the tub with the toilet on your right). Few sweat the details. So, it could be a permanent change or temporary and it is has no bearing on whether or not the town really changed.

 

I don't think this isn't villains escaping as much as villains being released from the underworld to wreck havoc on the town.

 

Or like when Castro encouraged  Cuban criminals and mental patients to escape to America - maybe Hades feels threatened by Cora and Pan et al and is letting them escape so he doesn't have to worry about a mutiny. He was having a grand old time in his Underworld until that Savior Emma kept sending him long-lived manipulative villians. He could handle one dark one every 300 years, but not a bunchof super-villians arriving all at once. So, he's returning them to sender.

Edited by kili
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