Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[sharky]

Robbie apparently posted last week that he was going on vacation to Europe so I wouldn't put much hope in that. And seriously, do they have any room for anyone else in the premiere anyway?

[patchwork]

I would be okay with another Pan appearance if it meant we finally get the Peter Pan/Hook/Tinkerbelle flashback we should have in 3A but considering that they've just started filming I doubt that's why he's there. Rumble's probably seeing things again. 

[Souris]

Robbie's been flying around Europe on vacation. He never said it was Vancouver, fans just jumped to a wild conclusion.

[Kaw912]

Sheesh, if Robbie WERE in the Season Premiere I'd be starting to wonder why I hadn't be cast in it, and I'm not an actress. I'd be starting to feel like I was the only person in the world NOT in episode 4 x01

[NotBothered]

Robbie's been flying around Europe on vacation. He never said it was Vancouver, fans just jumped to a wild conclusion.

Oh good.  I probably shouldn't have even brought it up (because I honestly didn't believe it), but I was just desperate for new spoilers. 

[retrograde]

If it is Sidney Glass returning and not just the Magic Mirror, I hope there's a good reason he hasn't been around and it's not like, Regina is doing the dishes and suddenly thinks, "Oh shit, I never let Sidney out of that psych ward! Oops!"

[daxx]

If it is Sidney Glass returning and not just the Magic Mirror, I hope there's a good reason he hasn't been around and it's not like, Regina is doing the dishes and suddenly thinks, "Oh shit, I never let Sidney out of that psych ward! Oops!"

It could very well be his genie incarnation in the past. He was freed by Snow's father so any flashback farther in the past could have him as a genie in a bottle.

[Mari]

It could very well be his genie incarnation in the past. He was freed by Snow's father so any flashback farther in the past could have him as a genie in a bottle.

As long as it's not in the Snow/Regina period of the Enchanted Forest, I'm all for it.

[kili]

It could very well be his genie incarnation in the past

 

Now I'm thinking of joking punny ways Elsa ended up where she was.

 

Genie: You have rubbed my lamp. I shall give you three wishes.

Elsa's Crappy Parents: We yearn for...

Genie: Urn for what?

Elsa's Crappy Parents: Our daughters

Genie: Done and done. I also put that boyfriend in one too. Three wishes. Bye-bye.

Edited July 10, 2014 by kili

[retrograde]

Season 4 synopsis: 

 

Master storytellers Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz ("Lost," "Tron: Legacy") invite everyone to join Emma Swan, Snow White, Prince Charming, The Evil Queen, Hook and all the other resident fairy tale characters as they prepare to defend themselves against a magical force from the past that's too dark and unpredictable even for Rumplestiltskin - The Ice Queen.

 

 

Interesting. Had a feeling that's what they'd do with Elizabeth Mitchell's character.

[Featherhat]

I've seen that before, since before all the Frozen talk began. It's possible it refers to EMs character, but its also possible it means Elsa and the cast of Frozen in general. 

[Shanna Marie]

It could be a bait-and-switch, mistaken villain situation -- people think it's Elsa causing the problems, because ice, but while they're focused on her, the real villain is out there causing problems.

 

And it's a good thing I wasn't drinking my tea when I read that "master storytellers" thing or I'd need a new laptop.

[Amerilla]

And it's a good thing I wasn't drinking my tea when I read that "master storytellers" thing or I'd need a new laptop.

 

 

Indeed. I think blacked out for a few seconds.

[Shanna Marie]

I'm wondering, if they introduce an actual Ice Queen, could Elsa's condition be the result of a curse? I don't recall if in Frozen they indicated that it was a family trait or not (not that it matters because they can somewhat rewrite the specifics of the backstory as needed here), but if there's another villain, then this could have been something that was done to her. Instead of breaking the curse, I imagine they'd still have her learn to live with it and control it because of all those empowerment messages, and they wouldn't want to strip Elsa's powers.

 

For Elsa to be a suspect, it would require that there be some past connection to one of the regulars, I'd think, so they'd make the Elsa/ice connection and leap to that conclusion, though I suppose she could also be legendary or notorious, whether as history or as a relatively recent event.

[FAU]

It could be a bait-and-switch, mistaken villain situation -- people think it's Elsa causing the problems, because ice, but while they're focused on her, the real villain is out there causing problems.

 

And it's a good thing I wasn't drinking my tea when I read that "master storytellers" thing or I'd need a new laptop.

 

Yeah, that seems to be what they're going for or that seems to be what I'm thinking after Mitchell got cast.

 

"Master storytellers".  XD.

[kili]

I'm wondering, if they introduce an actual Ice Queen, could Elsa's condition be the result of a curse?

 

It's a bit of a fail as a curse, though, isn't it? In the beginning and in the end, Elsa loves the ability to make things snow. She gets and gives great delight with it. If Anna hadn't been heedlessly out of control (leaping from high snow top to high snow top), the accident would never have happened and Elsa's crappy parents couldn't have done a number on her psychological frame of mind. It is only when she's trying to ignore/hide/conceal her gift that it is a problem. Once she feels loved and appreciated, she controls her power to the benefit of all.

 

I'd like to see Elsa's magic continue to be seen as a gift...but a gift bestowed to protect the kingdom from some larger evil. Who knows. Maybe Glinda is that evil. Zelena banished her to the Enchanted Forrest world, but Elsa bundled her into a Frozen world to stop her from causing havoc.

 

Although I do kind of wish that Once could get Narnia because that Ice Queen would be awesome. A little to convenient for Elsa and an Ice Queen to show up in town on the same day, though.

[Serena]

So. After the news of the people going to Comic Con, am I being too hopeful in thinking that they've scrapped the idea of making the Knave a regular and also aren't promoting Sean to regular? Could we actually be spared an awful "Robin leaves Marian for Regina, OQ endgame forever" storyline? Am I jinxing it by writing this, and they're gonna announce both promotions as soon as I post it?

[Shanna Marie]

It's a bit of a fail as a curse, though, isn't it?

It depends on the context in this version of the world, but it did isolate Elsa for a long time and came close to destroying her kingdom. True, that was largely the fault of crappy parents handling it badly, but it's possible that figuring out how to manage it all with love was a way of working around the curse. If she hadn't figured that out, her life would have been pretty rough. She'd have been afraid of being around people, afraid of emotions. People were hunting her down to kill her once they found out what she was and what she could do. Her kingdom was pretty much doomed. The fact that she could learn to manage it might have been one of those unintended loopholes in the curse that the caster didn't think would be there because she doesn't understand love, herself. That's the kind of thing that tends to happen in fairy tales -- villain wants to destroy kingdom, curses princess, is defeated because of tiny detail she didn't foresee because she's such a villain that she doesn't understand things like love or self-sacrifice.

[NotBothered]

So. After the news of the people going to Comic Con, am I being too hopeful in thinking that they've scrapped the idea of making the Knave a regular and also aren't promoting Sean to regular? Could we actually be spared an awful "Robin leaves Marian for Regina, OQ endgame forever" storyline? Am I jinxing it by writing this, and they're gonna announce both promotions as soon as I post it?

I'm not surprised that they don't have Michael Socha going, because they would have to share actual details about the plot lines for him to be able to contribute anything to the panel.  They've been pretty tight lipped about what he'll be doing and how he'll fit in.  He also hasn't even been 100% confirmed.  They "expect" he'll be on the show.

 

I'm a little more surprised about Sean, since he has been doing conventions and he's part of a major cannon ship.  Between this and the fact that there's no news of him headed to Vancouver (that I'm aware of at least), it certainly seems like he's not getting upped to a regular.    I have deleted about 10 theories about why that might be and I don't really like any of them.  Even if they are going to try and keep OutlawQueen in doubt for most of the season, it would seem weird to have a major love interest off screen that much, especially when he got very involved in Storybrooke shenanigans even before he and Regina got together AND when they tee'd up so much angst in that area at the end of 3B.

 

Maybe Robin and the Merry Men are deep frozen on accident by Elsa we don't see them thawed until the end of 4A?  That's really the most not-obnoxious scenario I can think of right now.

[Serena]

The other conventions Sean has been doing are kind of irrelevant. Rebecca has been doing them too, and she's not coming back. The actors get paid a lot of money to attend those cons. San Diego Comic Con is a different beast, because it's a non-profit, so they don't pay any of the guests; it's the network who pays for airfare and hotels for the actors. 

 

I honestly think as soon as OUATIW was cancelled they were like "no! we can't lose Shiny Plaything #34! Lock him in a contract!" because his Wonderland contract said he could be moved to the main show if Wonderland was cancelled. However, once they actually started breaking the season, they got distracted by Shiny Plaything #35 through #53, realized they had nothing for the Knave, and decided to quietly demote him and maybe just get him for a few guest spots. ABC is way more interested in promoting the show than in keeping things secret, and it's ABC who decide who goes, not A&E.

[kili]

I'm not surprised that they don't have Michael Socha going, because they would have to share actual details about the plot lines for him to be able to contribute anything to the panel.

 

They sent MRJ to last year's SDCC and he was supposed to be dead. So, his presence was a spoiler and how much of his plot lines could he share?

 

The other conventions Sean has been doing are kind of irrelevant. Rebecca has been doing them too, and she's not coming back.

 

One of those conventions (Spooky?) also had the girl that played Wendy and the dude who was Little John on the panel with Sean, Lana and Rebecca. Robbie (Peter Pan) was on the one in Paris.

[NotBothered]

 

They sent MRJ to last year's SDCC and he was supposed to be dead.

No he wasn't.  We knew he was alive and in the Enchanted Forest.  And he actually was a character on the show, so he could discussed things that happened in the past.  You bring Socha and he can pretty much talk about a show that was cancelled and how great it is to work with these people.

 

 

The other conventions Sean has been doing are kind of irrelevant. Rebecca has been doing them too, and she's not coming back.

Fair point.  

 

ABC is way more interested in promoting the show than in keeping things secret, and it's ABC who decide who goes, not A&E.

Which is why it seems strange that you wouldn't be pimping out of the major ships.

 

It looks likes we'll see filming pictures coming out next week, so hopefully we can stop reading too much into who they're sending to do promotion.  Because I admit that I am reading too much into this out of a desire to avoid real life responsibilities. 

[Serena]

Most important news to come out all summer!!
 

I’m loving the Hook/Swan thing on Once Upon a Time, but something is bothering me: How long will Emma put up with his choice of clothing? Come on, they’re not in FTL anymore and no one else is dressed as such.  A shower and some nice clothes just might move Emma in the right direction. —Linda
Aye, we may just find out if (new) clothes indeed make the man. I can exclusively report that there are plans to get Hook out of his pirate gear and into clothes befitting our world — and that his new look will be debuted in the early part of Season 4. Fun fact: After Colin O’Donoghue and I took this pic during my last set visit, I tried on Killian’s coat, and that slab o’leather weighs 50 lbs. if it weighs an ounce!
http://tvline.com/2014/07/10/once-upon-a-time-season-4-captain-hook-new-clothes/

Which is why it seems strange that you wouldn't be pimping out of the major ships.

Yeah, which is why I'm thinking/hoping they've decided to go in a different direction with OQ and that's why they're not promoting it.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Serena

[Souris]

Most important news to come out all summer!!

 

Aiyeee! It's happening! It's happening! :runs around flailing:

 

I guess he'll be in a lot of winter coats with long sleeves to deal with the hook.

 

Geez, if that coat did weigh that much, Colin is gonna feel a heck of a lot freer. Literal weight off his back.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Souris

[pezgirl7]

I'm excited about the possible change in wardrobe for Hook, but I also will miss his leather coat. He looks awesome in it, especially when he's running or twirling around in a sword fight (not that he's done much of that lately). I'm hoping for jeans, a v-neck t-shirt and a cool leather coat, all black of course. :)

[NotBothered]

 

Most important news to come out all summer!!

I know we are not supposed to post just to squee.  But SQUEE!  Incoherent fan girl flailing!

 

 

Geez, if that coat did weigh that much, Colin is gonna feel a heck of a lot freer. Literal weight off his back.

I am so interested to see how this changes the performance.  Thinking about, Hook has come off lighter, quippier, and less morose when we was in the prince gear and in that vest/shirt combo we haven't seen him in since the Enchanted Forest.  I'm hoping lighter clothes mean lighter/happier Hook.  And that this means Colin will finally get some appropriate gear for those Vancouver winters.

[Rumsy4]

I am so on board for Killian in modern clothes!! Much as I love the whole pirate getup, it's a natural transition point for his character. Eduardo is a genius, so I hope he will fit Colin up in something dashing...

[CatMack]

And it's not like they have to stick him in just jeans and a t-shirt, black or otherwise.  There are a lot of styles of clothing in our modern world, they could totally find something for him that's more modern than his pirate costume but still has some kind fairytale-esque touches to give him that aura of 300 yr old pirate. 

[kili]

He looks awesome in it, especially when he's running or twirling around in a sword fight (not that he's done much of that lately).

 

He could steal the coat  Sherlock wears  (BBC - Benedict Cummberbatch). That would make for some impressive twirls.

Edited July 10, 2014 by kili

[Shanna Marie]

I'm really curious to see the costume design. It'll have to have big cuffs for dealing with the hook. I wonder if it will have buttons that actually fasten above the mid-chest level. I don't think Hook should wear all-black anymore, if the costume change is supposed to symbolize the changes in him as a person. They could even get wild and crazy and have him dress like a normal person does and actually change clothes daily. There could be a signature item, like a coat or jacket and possibly a sword belt (since I doubt he'll be getting rid of his cutlass, even in our world), but otherwise different clothes each day, perhaps all fitting in the same general style. I vote for a lot of blue to make the blue eyes pop.

[Souris]

 I wonder if it will have buttons that actually fasten above the mid-chest level.

 

Well, now, that's just crazy talk. ;-)

[maryle]

The reaction at the comic con about wich actors are going or at the promotion from the network is very telling how diverse the fandom really is actually.

It seems every fans look at it and at the spoiler for the upcoming season with their google ship on.

Rumbleller are afraid to be sidelined with all the new character and the Frozen storyline.

Outlaw is sad that Sean is not going and are not sure at that means for Robin Regina.
Many never understand why Socha as to be a regular and are relieve that he won't take away too much screen time from their ship . And the anti captainswan  group (sawnqueen , swanfire ) are ready to go and protest against the( rape culture)

 The writer is to blame for that because fans of the show no longer feels that the story can be deep and compelling. Because the love for the big plot twist from the writer and the fact that they made the main cast react occur for the sake of their genial twist. so they only care about how much time their favourite ship gets on screen. That is bad news for the one who care about thé story first

[NotBothered]

 

It'll have to have big cuffs for dealing with the hook.

And I am crushed that we will probably not get flannel shirts and rolled up sleeves because of this.

[pezgirl7]

^ Unless he magically gets his hand back. :) I still think it will happen at some point, but next year is too soon IMO. I don't think he'll need super big sleeves. The prince coat didn't really have that big of ones.

I don't know how they will make him look like a modern pirate without it coming off as super cheesy, Renaissance faire-ish. But I have faith since most of the costumes have been pretty awesome.

Edited July 11, 2014 by pezgirl7

[retrograde]

Hmm. I would like to see Hook try normal clothes, but I don't know how I feel about it as a permanent change. One thing that makes Hook unique is that he doesn't have the Land Without Magic download. He's 100% fairytale. I think that's part of what makes him an interesting match for Emma, because she really has to face the whole fairytale part of her life head-on with him. He has been wearing the same thing for hundreds of years -- surely our clothes seems weird and uncomfortable to him at this point.

 

I hope at least that they avoid the temptation to give him clothes that suit the actor -- jeans and plain t-shirts and button downs -- in favor of clothes that reflect Hook. Hook seems to have fairly flamboyant tastes and a preference for fine craftsmanship. I think it has been said in the past that his look was based partially on 80s bands like Depeche Mode. So I hope they keep things at least a little eccentric and edgy. (Though I'm not sure where you'd find such things in small-town Maine. Perhaps he can go back to New York with Emma and Henry to help them move). 

Edited July 11, 2014 by retrograde

[sharky]

Just mix the two -- jeans and a white T-shirt with that gorgeous leather coat. He doesn't have to let go of everything, right? Or maybe I'm just damn obsessed with that coat.

Edited July 17, 2014 by sharky

[retrograde]

^ Unless he magically gets his hand back. :) I still think it will happen at some point, but next year is too soon IMO. I don't think he'll need super big sleeves. The prince coat didn't really have that big of ones.

Yeah, but he didn't have the hook on in the prince outfit. It's fine when he has the "fake" hand, but the big sleeves are needed when he has the hook, because that whole prop basically needs to fit over his fist. Perhaps he will have less need for the hook next season, though.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm conflicted about Hook losing his hook. His hook is what makes him iconic. Without it, he's just a random pirate. But on the other hand (no pun intended), I would love to see Rumple give him his hand back eventually. But now isn't really a good time for that, as pezgirl7 said. I don't even know if Hook wants his hand back.

 

I don't mind Hook wearing new clothes around Storybrooke, just not so casual that he's stripped totally bare of his fairy tale persona. Part of what I love about CaptainSwan is that Hook is so timeless, and Emma needs that fantasy element in her life. As long as it's not as boring as just plaid over jeans, I'm alright with it. A rough and edgey look with a leather jacket would suit him well.

Edited July 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I kind of think they'll stick with the coat just because it is designed to be worn with the hook and it still gives him the pirate look. I really hope they give him some color with the rest of his wardrobe though.

 

 

I honestly think as soon as OUATIW was cancelled they were like "no! we can't lose Shiny Plaything #34! Lock him in a contract!" because his Wonderland contract said he could be moved to the main show if Wonderland was cancelled.

 

You know we joke about them having shiny playthings, but there was an interview linked in here a few pages back where Adam was quoted as referring to Frozen as a new "toy" to play with. When the writers are referring to their storylines as new toys, something is wrong.

[FurryFury]

So... am I the only one who doesn't give a damn about Hook's clothes? I mean, I like him, but is this really so important? Unless he wears Belle's hooker shorts, I don't care how he dresses. 

 

I'd love for EM's character to be the real Snow/Ice Queen (why Ice, though?) I've always loved that fairytale, and incorporating some of its elements into 4A would make me much more interested in it. I'm also glad Robin's not a regular, although I'm sure I'll hate whatever it is they're going to do with his character because with this fan response, Outlaw Queen is 100% endgame, unfortunately.

[Serena]

Eh, I kind of think the fan response to OQ is... not really that much about Robin? I think the writers could have hired a cardboard cutout to make out with Lana Parrilla and spout lines about how supermegafantastic Regina is, and the Regina fans (who aren't SQ fans) would have eaten it up with a spoon. I'm preeetty sure that if they only hire another moderately attractive guy and have him fall at Regina's feet, it'll get the exact same response as OQ.

[YaddaYadda]

So... am I the only one who doesn't give a damn about Hook's clothes? I mean, I like him, but is this really so important? Unless he wears Belle's hooker shorts, I don't care how he dresses. 

 

I don't care about the whole change of clothes either though I'm glad the actor might get to wear warmer clothes during those damp Vancouver winters.  I just hope they don't take away too much from him.  I kinda like that coat.

[maryle]

I'm happy to read I'm not alone in my understanding of the passion for Outlaw!
The problem for me is that Sean ( lovely man) is colder than the Ice Queen. They are selling it like this big passion! That you just can't resist to make out in a stranger Kitchen when a witch want to kill you. Not buy it!

 

Maybe it's because they want the passion of a love affair and the deep deep meaning of a soul mate connection but without showing it or gave it the appropriate time to develop.
They want the angst and the drama of the triangle, more than the love story!
But the fans and the actors talk like it is already this epic love story, it's just been a week that they kissed at Granny !

[CatMack]

I don't know how they will make him look like a modern pirate without it coming off as super cheesy, Renaissance faire-ish. But I have faith since most of the costumes have been pretty awesome.

 

All I meant by something more modernish but still fairytale piratey was something more like Graham in season 1 or Dyson from the show Lost Girl - lots of vests/waistcoats and other touches that aren't as common in modern every day dress, so there's still a feeling of 'out of time', but without it feeling too costumey.  Whatever types of clothes he ends up in, I agree I want more color.  Stick to overall black sure, he's a pirate that's his thing, but give him a red vest again or something.  Hell, I'd settle for a couple slightly different black shirts.  He wore the exact same costume for 90% of season 3, it was weird. 

 

But yeah, I don't care that much, it's just one of the few concrete spoilers we have at this point, so it's fun to speculate. 

[Amerilla]

So... am I the only one who doesn't give a damn about Hook's clothes?

 

 

Nope. Not the only one.

 

The costuming people will do their usual excellent job, I'm sure, but I think changing Hook into civvies will ultimately just highlight the basic blandness of the character that began when they switched him from "revenge" mode to "romance" mode. 

[daxx]

And I am crushed that we will probably not get flannel shirts and rolled up sleeves because of this.

He could wear this if he is sporting the fake hand. A faux brace over his forearm and his real hand with a glove held stiff like he already does eliminates the need to disguise arm lengths.

[InsertWordHere]

I think the challenge will be keeping Hook true to his character when in modern clothes. Hook is certainly not bland IMO, but Colin O'Donoghue will be one of the only actors who doesn't have the "this character acts differently in the modern world because they were cursed" crutch to fall back on. Even with Regina, who never received cursed memories, there is a marked difference between Mayor Mills and the Evil Queen in terms of her mannerisms and way of speaking. Hook must remain Hook-like no matter the outfit.

[daxx]

I think the challenge will be keeping Hook true to his character when in modern clothes. Hook is certainly not bland IMO, but Colin O'Donoghue will be one of the only actors who doesn't have the "this character acts differently in the modern world because they were cursed" crutch to fall back on. Even with Regina, who never received cursed memories, there is a marked difference between Mayor Mills and the Evil Queen in terms of her mannerisms and way of speaking. Hook must remain Hook-like no matter the outfit.

Colin has said that putting on the costume puts him in character. Jmo has said the same of him. Changing as soon as he puts on the coat. I would assume though given the amount of time he has spent being Hook he won't have a problem.

Although it is ok for Killian to be a bit different since he is trying to return to being a man of honor and not just the pirate.

[maryle]

The cast are returning to Steveston (for timing) for the first time in season 4 next week.

So next Wednesday we could have a glimpse Elsa, Hook new cloche....

It Will be fun!

[sharky]

Although it is ok for Killian to be a bit different since he is trying to return to being a man of honor and not just the pirate.

Yea, that's why I don't mind the change as long as it's not too different. I feel I don't necessarily care what they put under the coat as long as he has the coat on over it -- or just something of the pirate costume with regular clothes. He had some great vests in season 2 -- the red vest, the beanstalk vest with the cap sleeves, and I adored that black velvet vest with the high collar. I would love to see any of those back with maybe dark jeans and leather boots? Or even maybe the Han Solo shirt and vest with jeans. Just something that says he's trying to be more modern for Emma while still being true to his pirate self.