Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Selina K]

I've resigned myself to ending with CS angst for the summer. I'm pretty sure the I love you scene will be when everyone is in peril. I could be happy if we got some fun scenes akin to last years before we have to wade into the angst.

[YaddaYadda]

I wonder if it'll make me like that pairing?

 

Yeah, nothing isn't gonna make me like OQ.  I'm sort of scared they'll give them Snowing moments in the AU, like the whole Snow being trapped in the net and the whole I will always find you bit.  I might throw up if that happens.

[Geeni]

I'm actually thinking that "I will always find you" will be AU!Snow to Charming, but in a completely different context than it usually is.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm actually thinking that "I will always find you" will be AU!Snow to Charming, but in a completely different context than it usually is.

 

Probably, but just getting my brain ready just in case since Regina is Snow in the AU and Rumple has light magic and Hook is probably behaving like Rumple pre-Dark One.  

 

Expect the worst, but hope for the best.  Once sounds like my work!  

[FurryFury]

I don't even dare to hope for anything, with this show. Other than they won't add Zelena AND Robin next year.

[OnceUponAJen]

I'm actually thinking that "I will always find you" will be AU!Snow to Charming, but in a completely different context than it usually is.

I was hoping it would be Hook & Emma. We haven't gotten a whole lot about them....this is gonna be good!

[Serena]

I don't even dare to hope for anything, with this show. Other than they won't add Zelena AND Robin next year.

We're gonna know soon anyway. I'm pretty sure MRJ was announced at the upfronts, so we'll have any news next week.

[mjgchick]

I'm actually thinking that "I will always find you" will be AU!Snow to Charming, but in a completely different context than it usually is.

Maybe it's obsessed Snow telling Charming this as he runs away from her crazy obsessed ass. Evil Snow looks scary mostly because I find the quite villains scarier than the scene chewing ones.

[KingOfHearts]

Are villains really winning if the heroes are villains and the villains are now heroes? If Regina's the bandit fighting for her kingdom and Snow is the mass murdering Nazi dictator, doesn't that just continue the mantra that heroes win and villains lose? I don't see anything changing besides the actors.

 

By the way, not being able to change the past is a very poor reason for Baelfire's absence. Why not just resurrect him with your superpowers? If you can make people fall in love, why is that out of reach?

 

Teaser image quote from Evil Snow:

https://twitter.com/OnceABC/status/597476238412750848

 

Reminds me of The Heart is a Lonely Hunter.

Edited May 10, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

Here's my question: since Snow and Charming seem to still have split hearts in the AU, why wouldn't Rumple's heart be the same? It should still be rotting and he should be dying. 

 

Do you guys think nice, you're a hero Rumple!Belle will turn out to be a secret villain? That's be fun, otherwise she'd be the only one without a side switch.

[YaddaYadda]

otherwise she'd be the only one without a side switch.

 

well, she's exactly where Rumple wants her, otherwise, she would be Rumple's nightmare, Milah come back to life and tearing him a new one, magic or no magic.

[chrisvee]

Don't worry. I'm bringing the big guns out for this special Sunday. Rum and Cokes for everyone! Or just for me. Spoiler alert: I'll be buzzed when I post on Sunday. Let's hope that's not the most entertaining thing about the finale.

I'm self-medicating with cake. Sugar is the only way I'll make it through.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm actually thinking that "I will always find you" will be AU!Snow to Charming, but in a completely different context than it usually is.

At first I thought it was going to be Hook and Emma in the dagger scene, but now I have convinced myself that it's Regina and Robin in the AU, which makes me sad.

I don't have any expectation for the episode, and still, I'm sure I'm going to be disappointed.

[Watt]

We are gonna have a lot of fun later this summer, spoiler thread. Lots of fun.

[pezgirl7]

I wonder how many spoilers we'll actually get though? We might have to post in the speculation thread instead. When do they start filming again, July? I hate hiatuses!

Edited May 11, 2015 by pezgirl7

[Souris]

They'll have a few days of filming done before ComicCon, which starts July 9.

[HoodlumSheep]

My main questions right now are about the status of Mickey the Apprentice and Isaac. Neither of them died, so we should see them at some point in season 5, although they could explain Isaac away by saying he's being kept in the creepy asylum basement for the rest of his life. I'm actually really fond of the Apprentice. His actor does a good job.

Oh, and if we're actually going to Camelot next season. I imagine it'll look a lot like the EF i we see it.

[Mathius]

My main questions right now are about the status of Mickey the Apprentice and Isaac. Neither of them died, so we should see them at some point in season 5, although they could explain Isaac away by saying he's being kept in the creepy asylum basement for the rest of his life. I'm actually really fond of the Apprentice. His actor does a good job.

Agreed, I've said it before but Timothy Webber really does exude a natural warm, kind quality that helps offset the idiot writing his character is given. I'm really fond of Isaac for the same reason but in reverse: Patrick Fischler is just really great at playing a smarmy asshole.

Come to think of it, Isaac is what Greg and Tamara SHOULD have been: a villain from our world who was just granted power by another (Pan in one case, Merlin in another). Unlike them, he's actually entertaining and (intentionally) funny, and both his level of menace and his pitiful qualities are pulled off perfectly. He was a bright spot in this otherwise crappy arc.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Mathius

[retrograde]

So I guess the "secret" stuff they filmed at the end will be for next season and also what they plan on showing at Comic Con

[Emma]

Wrong thread. Sorry.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Emma

[Serena]

I wonder how many spoilers we'll actually get though? We might have to post in the speculation thread instead. When do they start filming again, July? I hate haiatuses!

I think A&E will be interviewed at the upfronts and we'll get some spoilers from that. I don't know how reliable though, because they won't have written anything yet.

 

I think with CC being earlier this year they realized they wouldn't have time to film something to show at the panel, so they filmed it in advance. Good thing is, at least we know it'll feature Emma! None of that "Regina and Sidney" lameness from last year.

[Souris]

Sounds like Emma will be Dark all season 5. So not here for that.

[HoodlumSheep]

I think I'm fine with it. It makes sense if you reduce things to a shipping perspective. If you figure CS TLK will break the curse, and you know OQ's gonna get their TLK first (there's no way they'll let Emma have her TLK before Regina) then that pushes completing this storyline to 5b pretty much.

Also, I don't know if I'd trust A&E to wrap up the DO curse storyline in a measly 11 episodes; it deserves more time than that because it's one of the biggest parts of this show's mythos.

Lily sounds like she's sticking around too, so that's 3 people that I wonder will get a recurring or guest spot this fall. And we should be seeing Mal again at least for one episode, unless they decide to completely ignore her when searching for Lily's dad.

So we got:

-Isaac (if they choose to show him after he's been arrested)

-Mickey the Apprentice

-Lily

-Zelena will be back in some capacity I'm sure

-dare I hope for Ana?

- Merlin

Up in the air:

-Lancelot (at least in flashbacks)

-King Arthur

-Morgan La Fey (Emma could represent her though)

-Uther Pendragon maybe?

-maybe Mordred?

I'm hoping A&E will treat season 5 like season 1 then (with one main storyline, rather than 2 very distinct ones).

Also, should I get my hopes up that all these secondary characters are going to appear in more than 1 scene in 1 episode (making it more like season 1 again too, except replace all those secondary characters with these shiny new ones)?

Is it too soon to start speculating?

Does this belong in the Specs Without Spoilers section?

Edited May 11, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[RadioGirl27]

Sounds like Emma will be Dark all season 5. So not here for that.

Of course she will :-( That way they can have her doing terrible things and being incredibly nasty with her family and Hook for a whole season until suddenly, the episode before the finale she would remember that she actually loves them (or whatever). Meanwhile Regina (and Rumple) are going to be sanctify.

At this point my love for Hook is the only thing that keeps me watching. And it's getting harder to be intetested.

Edited May 11, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[sharky]

You mean the scene that A&E said were "amazed it hasn't been leaked"? I thought it was going to be the final scene of the finale, but I guess it makes sense that they wanted to save it for Comic Con since the season ended on a big cliffhanger as it is.

I actually thought it was the fact that they're going to Camelot and bringing in Merlin. I don't think many people guessed that part of the finale leading into season 5. And I'm assuming whatever is at Comic Con is probably going to be something they haven't filmed yet. It does make the summer schedule issues a little weird since Comic Con is early this year.

 

As for the article, I don't think it makes it sound like Emma is going to be dark the entire season -- more like wishful thinking from the reporter. And as we've seen from the past, Eddy and Adam sometimes think of "season x" as "season xA" and don't even bring the second half into the equation during the summer hiatus interviews. I mean, we never even got a slight mention of the Queens of Darkness last summer at Comic Con. So I think it's too soon to tell whether Evil Emma is a half season or full season thing.

Edited May 11, 2015 by sharky

[YaddaYadda]

I'm not even sure she'll be a full on evil because of her light magic.  I think she will struggle and have her moments where she's off her rocker, but I doubt she'll go full on sparkle!dark or anything like that.  Or hope springs eternal, so yay Emma's gonna get more focus next season????

[Mari]

I'm not even sure she'll be a full on evil because of her light magic.  I think she will struggle and have her moments where she's off her rocker, but I doubt she'll go full on sparkle!dark or anything like that.  Or hope springs eternal, so yay Emma's gonna get more focus next season????

Replying in the speculation without spoilers thread.

[Serena]

Sounds like Emma will be Dark all season 5. So not here for that.

I don't see anything in the article confirming that Emma will be dark all season. The only direct quote is "Swan" (and they better not be trolling about that, I swear to God) and they basically confirm that they have had their bootcamp but haven't written anything and won't for a month. Anything can happen... especially if they find something shiny they'd rather focus on instead.

 

 

I'm not even sure she'll be a full on evil because of her light magic.  I think she will struggle and have her moments where she's off her rocker, but I doubt she'll go full on sparkle!dark or anything like that.  Or hope springs eternal, so yay Emma's gonna get more focus next season????

Yeah... it wouldn't make sense for Emma to be all evil. It made sense for Rumple because it was a classic tale of the bullied becoming the bully, but Emma hasn't ever been like that.

[LizaD]

I hope they give a better reason for the quest for Merlin. As far as they know all he can do is attach the thing to some other schmuck. I still say he's the big bad. He's probably locked up somewhere and the idiot heroes like usual release him, thinking he's going to help and voila the reveal is the dark magic is all his and he'll just take it back from Emma. Problem solved.

[Mari]

I hope they give a better reason for the quest for Merlin. As far as they know all he can do is attach the thing to some other schmuck. I still say he's the big bad. He's probably locked up somewhere and the idiot heroes like usual release him, thinking he's going to help and voila the reveal is the dark magic is all his and he'll just take it back from Emma. Problem solved.

Replying in speculation without spoilers.

[Shanna Marie]

So, didn't they say that next season wouldn't be traveling anywhere and that it was going to be a "change in condition," like the coming of magic at the end of season one? I'm not sure how that applies to this, when they set up the need to find Merlin, which suggests a trip to Camelot, and when Emma absorbing the Dark One doesn't really mean a change of condition for Storybrooke that in any way parallels the looming cloud of magic at the end of season one. There already was a Dark One, and now there's a different one who wasn't a slimy coward before taking that on. Nothing has really changed for the town, unless there's some bad juju from not having a Savior in residence. I didn't really get a sense of "ooh, they're in trouble now" from this in the way they suggested.

[scenicbyway]

So, didn't they say that next season wouldn't be traveling anywhere and that it was going to be a "change in condition," like the coming of magic at the end of season one? I'm not sure how that applies to this, when they set up the need to find Merlin, which suggests a trip to Camelot, and when Emma absorbing the Dark One doesn't really mean a change of condition for Storybrooke that in any way parallels the looming cloud of magic at the end of season one. There already was a Dark One, and now there's a different one who wasn't a slimy coward before taking that on. Nothing has really changed for the town, unless there's some bad juju from not having a Savior in residence. I didn't really get a sense of "ooh, they're in trouble now" from this in the way they suggested.

 

I don't get the impression they are actually going to Camelot.  It could be as easy as the Apprentice opening a door to Camelot and grabbing Merlin.  The change in condition is Emma's character has changed.  I suppose she'll just be moody with everyone next season, oh wait, that tends to happen anyway.  I do think it's interesting that Charming even when evil is still Charming and Hook would still give up everything for Emma even when he doesn't know her.  It'll be interesting to see if Dark One Emma is actually dark or just crabbier than usual.

[RadioGirl27]

So, didn't they say that next season wouldn't be traveling anywhere and that it was going to be a "change in condition," like the coming of magic at the end of season one? I'm not sure how that applies to this, when they set up the need to find Merlin, which suggests a trip to Camelot, and when Emma absorbing the Dark One doesn't really mean a change of condition for Storybrooke that in any way parallels the looming cloud of magic at the end of season one. There already was a Dark One, and now there's a different one who wasn't a slimy coward before taking that on. Nothing has really changed for the town, unless there's some bad juju from not having a Savior in residence. I didn't really get a sense of "ooh, they're in trouble now" from this in the way they suggested.

A&E like to troll, and they knew that the dagger scene had leaked and pretty much everyone had figured everything out, so they were trying to keep people interested with this. It was them going "it's not what you think, watch the show". 

[FabulousTater]

So, didn't they say that next season wouldn't be traveling anywhere and that it was going to be a "change in condition," like the coming of magic at the end of season one? I'm not sure how that applies to this, when they set up the need to find Merlin, which suggests a trip to Camelot, and when Emma absorbing the Dark One doesn't really mean a change of condition for Storybrooke that in any way parallels the looming cloud of magic at the end of season one.

Same. I was giving this some thought this morning and the only fanwank I have is that making Emma the Dark One means people aren't getting their happy endings. My reasoning is that since 4B spent a lot of time hammering us with the idea that Emma is the one with the power to give happy endings in Storybrooke, and Dark!Emma can give villains happy endings (because before they couldn't get happy endings, which is actually a total lie, but that's the lie the show is selling) then normal folk and heroes can't get their happy endings anymore if Emma is the Dark One. Ya, it's thin reasoning and I don't think it really withstands scrutiny, but it's all I got.

 

The other (and more likely) option is that A&E were just talking out their asses and trying to hype an ending without giving anything specific away. Meaning, the "change of condition" was just a line they were using to sell this crap end to 4B and in actuality means nothing.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FabulousTater

[YaddaYadda]

Ya, it's thin reasoning and I don't think it really withstands scrutiny, but it's all I got.

 

It sort of makes sense in a twisted sort of way though.  I wonder what the Dark One with PMS looks like.  I wager it's nothing pleasant.

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe they were comparing the swirling cloud of dark goo rolling through the town to the billowing clouds of purple magic approaching at the end of season one. Except that the swirling cloud of darkness was resolved before the end of the episode.

 

And I still don't see how this is going to change the rules of the way the town works, the way the reintroduction of magic did, unless making Emma the Dark One makes it impossible for anyone to get their happy endings. And can I say how much I hate that concept? Didn't we just have an entire freaking arc building up to the idea that you write your own happy ending, that it's not something that can be just given to you?

 

I'm also not entirely sure that Dark One Emma would have to be a villain. Rumple was a weak coward who committed murder in order to get the Dark One power for himself. Emma sacrificed herself to take it on to save others, full of love and faith that they would be able to take what they knew and find a way to save her and save everyone else from the dark power. Rumple's evil in the early going was mostly him swaggering around and being the kind of bully who's always victimized him. He still loved his son and was affectionate with his son. He just ultimately loved power more. So would this in any way stop Emma from loving someone else? She didn't want the power in the first place, so would she go power crazy the way Rumple did?

 

I just don't see how their season five teases match what they actually set up.

[KingOfHearts]

The very fact Emma poofed away shows there's no change in condition for Storybrooke. Some of the characters are directly affected, but not nearly in the same manner as bringing magic. There's no Black Swan terrorizing town. Besides Emma's friends and family, everyone else can go back to their normal lives. Now that Rumple is neutralized and Regina is a hero, they've really got nothing to worry about. I'd be more concerned about the citizens of Camelot.

Edited May 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm still confused as to why they can't just call Emma back using the dagger? Unless they are planning to do just that, thus destroying any bit of tension (like they normally do). Or maybe...gasp! What if Emma is trapped inside the dagger, so when they summon her she doesn't show up?

I'm sure they'll just make up something along the lines of her being the savior, so the normal DO rules don't apply, so she can't be summoned/controlled all willy nilly like Rumple could be.

Edited May 11, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[FabulousTater]

Emma sacrificed herself to take it on to save others, full of love and faith that they would be able to take what they knew and find a way to save her and save everyone else from the dark power. Rumple's evil in the early going was mostly him swaggering around and being the kind of bully who's always victimized him. He still loved his son and was affectionate with his son. He just ultimately loved power more. So would this in any way stop Emma from loving someone else? She didn't want the power in the first place, so would she go power crazy the way Rumple did?

This. There's not motivation for Emma to be wreaking havoc as the new Dark One or to go all sparkly, no holds barred evil like Imp Rumpel did. Even Rumpel who willingly murdered someone to get the dagger had some control over the Dark One's influence. His problem was with being unable to let go of his thirst for power. But Emma has never had that issue and she was tied to the dagger by an act of selfless sacrifice. So, what the hell? Does this mean s5A is going to be a half-season arc of Emma stark, raving mad because she's got dark voices in her head??? Or is Zelena gonna escape from her looney bin cell, get a hold of the dagger, and use Dark One Emma to kill people? I mean, that's just angst for the sake of angst.

 

This is just a poorly thought out plot that sounds good at first blush, but when you think it through (which these writers never do) it doesn't pass muster.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Souris]

Oh, you know, Rumple was so heroic for keeping the darkness at bay as much as he did. Emma will be swamped by the darkness and be unable to keep it at bay, so she'll just be Evil Incarnate.

[SilverShadow]

It'd be really interesting if the dagger corrupted Emma in the opposite way it did Rumple. Rumple was ultimately a selfish cowardly person and the dagger exacerbated that. So what if with Emma, the dagger instead turned her selflessness up to eleven. She's going to make damn sure everyone gets their happy endings, regardless of the cost to her own soul. Villains threatening her loved ones? She kills them without flinching. Interpersonal conflicts-a few poofed memories and people literally don't remember why they're angry at each other. Etc.

 

That's the ultimate extreme of course, and I'd love a lot of build to it. Just little protective actions with minimal magic that get bigger and more morally messed up as the half-season goes on.

[Mari]

It'd be really interesting if the dagger corrupted Emma in the opposite way it did Rumple. Rumple was ultimately a selfish cowardly person and the dagger exacerbated that. So what if with Emma, the dagger instead turned her selflessness up to eleven. She's going to make damn sure everyone gets their happy endings, regardless of the cost to her own soul. Villains threatening her loved ones? She kills them without flinching. Interpersonal conflicts-a few poofed memories and people literally don't remember why they're angry at each other. Etc.

Her other fault is her (wow, I want to flinch saying it, because we've heard it so very much) walls.  Between doing what's best for everyone, and being icy at it, she'd be Galadriel with the One Ring--or, at least, the Cate Blanchett movie version.

 

I could see it.  I don't trust the writers, but with the right writing team, I could see it working.

[yeswedo]

Hey folks, quick reminder that if it's not tied to a spoiler, speculation should go in the Speculation without Spoilers thread. 

 

Thanks!

[RadioGirl27]

I think this can be considered a spoiler. If not, feel free to move it to some other thread. From the lady swan in Tumblr (it's the same girl that gave those vague spoilers about the finale):

 

 

Just thought I’d let you guys know… I didn’t want to mention this until after the finale – and seeing as though JMo sort of mentioned it in an interview the other day…while we were in Van, they filmed a teaser of Emma for SDCC. As far as I know, it’s just her and it will give us a glimpse into what happened to her. I don’t think anyone else was in it but, I could be wrong about that one. We were also told the season will absolutely focus on Emma. She’s becoming “the big deal”. As she should and it’s about damn time I say.

ANYWAY, just a little something to look forward to during the Comic Con panel!

Yay for a season focused on Emma, if it ever happens. Because the truth is that I don't care what A&E say, I won't believe that the focus would be on Emma until I see it. I've been burnt enough times to trust them. I mean, A&E said that 4B would center around the core characters, that we would see Emma fighting for Hook, that we would discover why Will was back in Storybrooke and what had happened to Ana or that we would learn something about Hook's childhood, and none of it happened (and I'm talking just about season 4).

[scenicbyway]

I thought we'd seen a picture of Dark Emma and she has strawberry-blonde hair.  It was during the music scoring and either the composer or Adam posted it. 

[Serena]

There's an official description for S5 and it mentions Dark Emma and Merlin. Adam and Jen also used the hashtag #darkswan. BTW, in the description for S5, Socha was still regular but Mader and Sean weren't. We should hear today for sure.

[Stuffy]

I thought we'd seen a picture of Dark Emma and she has strawberry-blonde hair. It was during the music scoring and either the composer or Adam posted it.

It ended up not being her as dark Emma just regular Emma on the boat trying to get Lily's attention after being rescued. Edited May 13, 2015 by Stuffy

[FurryFury]

Please no Robin and Zelena, please no Robin and Zelena...

[Souris]

This tweet by Jane Espenson gave me the worst thought. Is Emma going to become "masculine" now that she's the Dark One? Would they take their SQ baiting that far?

 

I think I made myself throw up.

[legaleagle53]

This tweet by Jane Espenson gave me the worst thought. Is Emma going to become "masculine" now that she's the Dark One? Would they take their SQ baiting that far?

 

I think I made myself throw up.

 

I think it's worse than that -- they're going to feminize Hook!