S01.E08: 8

[bunnywithanaxe]

I thought about that, too-- that maybe she on;y said she'd felt safe with him, and he spun it all kinds of different ways in his head.

[attica]

I would like to take a minute to thank Joshua Jackson for telling the world what DNR means.

 

I'd be willing to bet that was a suit's note, because suits don't believe audiences know anything not spoon-fed to them.

 

Oh god, I loved that Athena was running away to Rhinebeck, of all places. Only Woodstock would have been more on the nose. (I had the job of proxying for my mom when she died, and a lot of those hospital scenes rang extremely true to me. Even functional families like  to dump all that bureaucratic and emotional weight onto one person.)

 

My impulse was the same as Alison's re Cherry wanting to sabotage the sale. I am cynical.

 

I'm confused as to when the hotel reservation was to have happened. I originally thought it was supposed to be when Alison met Max, but I guess not? I don't know. Please show: this you can spoon-feed me!

 

Dominick West looked a bit thinner and better kempt in this ep. I'm guessing a filming break while the weather changed? 

[stormy weather]

 

First quarter of the first episode I wondered why Noah would cheat, clearly his marriage was fantastic, better than average. Now, after 8 episodes of insight, I'm wondering why they haven't fallen apart sooner.

I might be the only one here but I still think Noah and Helen's marriage is way better than most marriages I see in real life these days. They've been married for so long and still manage to have honest conversations (like when Helen talks to Whitney post-spew and then she says she's done a poor job and Noah agrees) and sex, too. If that's not a good marriage, I don't know what is. Certainly not Allison and Cole's, where she can spring out of bed and get changed when he thinks she's sleeping and still no questions are asked. 

I also agree with whoever said that Helen doesn't really think whatever she said in therapy about marrying Noah because he was "safe". Oh, the things you say when you want to get back at someone... we've all been there. 

I'm also getting very confused about the timeline and honestly still can't see the link between Scotty and either Allison or Noah, unless it has something to do with Cole (whom we haven't seen at Scotty's funeral) or with Whitney (although I can't see Noah killing someone over an unwanted pregnancy).

Edited December 9, 2014 by stormy weather

[Higgs]

I'm confused as to when the hotel reservation was to have happened. I originally thought it was supposed to be when Alison met Max, but I guess not?

You are correct. Noah and Alison stayed as planned at "The Edge" after Max left. There would have been no reason to cancel, and his name was not on the list of registered guests on the night requested. (If you're going to grope your lover's ass on a public dance floor, the name on the reservation would not be a major concern. You just don't want it on your charge card transactions.)

The detective is focused on the night of Scotty's death, who was on the road to "The Edge". If Noah had cancelled a reservation the night he met Max, that would only prove he lied (about even knowing of the club). If he had cancelled on the night of Scotty's death, the lie would make him a suspect in a murder.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Higgs

[Higgs]

I might be the only one here but I still think Noah and Helen's marriage is way better than most marriages I see in real life these days.

...

I'm also getting very confused about the timeline and honestly still can't see the link between Scotty and either Allison or Noah, unless it has something to do with Cole (whom we haven't seen at Scotty's funeral) or with Whitney (although I can't see Noah killing someone over an unwanted pregnancy).

Considered functionally, Noah/Helen are way better than average. The problem is that, like a 1939 Volkswagon, there is something rotten at its core, and it's neither of their fault.

....

If Scotty were continuing to deal drugs, Noah might view its detection as inevitable, which would eventually send Alison to prison. To prevent that, even if he weren't with her, he'd kill. (It's all I got.) According to the Treem interview cited above, the murder occurs in the middle of the series. So, whatever Noah's or Alison's complicity in the death, I'm not expecting to be watching passionate conjugal visits.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Higgs

[Blakeston]

I can understand why Helen (and the therapist) would accept Noah going to Montauk.

 

If I were in Helen's shoes, I'd be thinking, "If I'm going to stay married to him, I have to be able to trust him enough to let him be in the same town as her."

 

I would like to take a minute to thank Joshua Jackson for telling the world what DNR means. I know it's a petty complaint, but the explanation really "broke" the scene! I half-expected the "The More You Know" rainbow star would appear for a second.

 

It was especially bizarre considering that Alison's conversation with Athena had already made it clear what a DNR is.

[EyesGlazed]

As others have made thoughtful points about the central adult relationships in this episode, I will just add:  what is up with those Solloway kids?  Why are they so heinous?  No seriously, what plot points are they serving?  I caught myself having a little sympathy for Martin when he looked so downcast during the report card conversation, then quickly remembered that this was the kid who FAKED HIS OWN SUICIDE JUST BEFORE A FAMILY TRIP to freak out his family, and also the kid who deliberately set loose a horse that was the property of people who had given him a job and been kind to him.  Ugh!  For the first offense alone, I would have cancelled the little bastard's summer vacation in Montauk and taken him straight to therapy, with extra algebra tutoring on the weekends.

 

And Whitney has been presented as a near-sociopath in dire need of counseling (I guess Martin will get his turn when he becomes a bully instead of being bullied? ), with crappy values and poor impulse control.  Other posters have speculated that she is pregnant and is or will be in a relationship with Scotty, but I think we are supposed to be inferring more from her.

 

So what is the point here?  That the Solloways are horrible parents, that Helen's parents are horrible grandparents, that the Solloway marriage is bad for the kids?  I'm just very curious.

 

p.s. I still like Noah more than the rest of you guys do!  : )

 

p.p.s.  Random observation:  Cherry deciding that SHE wanted to keep Allison's son's chest of toys rather than deferring to Allison (and especially after Son #4 asked ALLISON what she wanted to do with the chest) was extremely annoying.

[Higgs]

...what is up with those Solloway kids? Why are they so heinous? No seriously, what plot points are they serving? ... So what is the point here? That the Solloways are horrible parents, that Helen's parents are horrible grandparents, that the Solloway marriage is bad for the kids?

The two youngest children appear to be perfectly normal, although I suppose some would argue that they just aren't old enough to have had a chance to become neurotic. In my experience, however, apples do indeed fall far from the tree, and even a cursory study of real families of one's acquaintance will turn up many examples of siblings who are greatly different from one another. So, in general, blaming the parents can become a modern form of witch-hunting, especially for irresponsible offspring (as in Whitney's hilarious takeover of the family therapy session) and competitively judgmental family and friends.

But what about their role in this particular story? I believe the behavior of the two oldest children is to stress the marriage so as to reveal some of its strengths and weaknesses, to challenge the couple to become either a team or finger-pointing enemies. Noah and Helen have been generally excellent parents by that measure, but there remains one crucial children-related factor that has gravely undermined their relationship from the beginning: their reliance on Mr. Butler's money. It arose again in this episode in Noah's palpable fear of having to beg again to send Martin to a private school.

When Carmela Soprano had a private session with a very stereotypical Jewish psychiatrist, he told her she had to take the kids and get out, and not take a cent of Tony's blood money. I, who only play a stereotypical Jewish psychiatrist on discussion forums, would counsel the Solloways to take the kids and their physical possessions, get the hell out of their Brooklyn brownstone, return the loan blood money from the sale, and move to an area and home they can afford on their combined incomes, where Noah has gotten a teaching job (at which he is terrific, BTW), and send ALL their kids to public schools (where virtually all American Nobel Prize winners went).

Edited December 9, 2014 by Higgs

[stormy weather]

 

Cherry deciding that SHE wanted to keep Allison's son's chest of toys rather than deferring to Allison (and especially after Son #4 asked ALLISON what she wanted to do with the chest) was extremely annoying.

 

Hmm, I thought that was nice of Cherry, though. Allison was having a hard time answering brother #4's question because she's clearly far from coming to terms with the loss of her son. She obviously wanted to keep the chest but she didn't know how to say it, so Cherry read the situation well and helped her out by saying SHE wanted to keep it. I generally like Cherry, especially since when she decided to burn the compromising note. I don't know how many mothers-in-law would've done that. 

[CarolMK]

I thought that I heard the detective ask Alison a couple of episodes ago something about "the night of the wedding". I'm wondering who has gotten married and if this was the night that Scotty died.

I wouldn't have guessed Whitney to be pregnant. Not sure about the bulimia thing either, at least not at first, I would have thought she had a stomach virus.

 

Noah seemed to understand what Alison was going through with her grandmother far better than anyone else.

[Cirien]

Okay I tend to wait until afterbuzz tv has posted their review because their interpretations tent line with mine, and I need to make sure I'm not going crazy. :. First of all I didn't realise why Romeo and Juliet was given so much prominence until they talked about the "I love you" s. It's the "two people who think they're in love with each other when they're actually not (cause they haven't spent enough time together to be in love) and meant for each other" when...no. I do think they *think* they are in love, and love the *idea* of each other. But no. They are so not in love it's not funny.

 

I don't think they end up together though. Romeo and Juliet is a doomed romance, which wouldn't fit, with Noah and Alison. There is another couple which it would fit with, especially with Noah talking about the "pure love " of R+J being ruined by the Adults in the story.

 

Second. As we keep saying on this forum. Memory is a slippy thing. So when Helen said in the therapist session that she could have had anyone and she choose Noah because he was safe, did Helen actually say that, or was *Noah-as-Helen* saying that? Remember it came right after she rejected his gift and talked about the bills they had to pay. I dunno I still think Helen, Cherry and Cole are nowhere near as bad as Alison and Noah remember them to be.

 

Romeo and Juliet: What if it's Whitney and Scotty.? The age difference between the two would fit wouldn't it. And Scotty is killed at the end and if it's by Noah's hand that he dies,... especially as Romeo and Juliet are supposed to be from the two main houses of the city. That certainly fits the Lockharts and Bruce's family

Edited December 9, 2014 by Cirien

[Constantinople]

I completely believed the exchange of ILYs between Alison and Noah.  And I think the reason Noah was able to be so compassionate is because his own mother died when he was 17 or 18, and it affected him profoundly

 

Caveat: We don't know Noah's mother died when he was 17 or 18.  We know Noah said his mother died.  Though I don't recall if he said that in his POV or Alison's POV or both.

 

Which is, for me, becoming a weakness of the storytelling premise.  Given that Noah and Alison routinely disagree over simple facts, why should I believe anything that either one of them allegedly said, did or saw absent corroborating evidence?  Between the unreliability of the narrators and the deliberate opacity of the timeline, I'm finding The Affair a bit wearisome.

[Janc]

You are correct. Noah and Alison stayed as planned at "The Edge" after Max left. There would have been no reason to cancel, and his name was not on the list of registered guests on the night requested. (If you're going to grope your lover's ass on a public dance floor, the name on the reservation would not be a major concern. You just don't want it on your charge card transactions.)

The detective is focused on the night of Scotty's death, who was on the road to "The Edge". If Noah had cancelled a reservation the night he met Max, that would only prove he lied (about even knowing of the club). If he had cancelled on the night of Scotty's death, the lie would make him a suspect in a murder.

I'm pretty sure the detective mentioned the cancelled reservation was on Labor Day (weekend?).  

 

Max and Helen are totally having an affair, I think.  That's why she returned the necklace to him, she felt guilty about his apology and wanting to make things right when she is still having her own affair.  

 

I did not get Helen's outburst "You have lost the right to say that to me!" - I didn't get the relevance of that when he tells her she's overreacting (to Whitney-?).  Here's the exchange:

 

Noah: Well, why do we have to go?

Helen: Because somebody has to be there for my dad. It's a big deal, because it's a lifetime achievement award, and now I'm afraid to leave Whitney, because she...

N: Don't you think you may be overreacting?

H: No, I don't think I'm overreacting, I don't! And you have lost the right to say that to me.

 

(http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=14729 )

[attica]

There would have been no reason to cancel, and his name was not on the list of registered guests on the night requested

 

My own slippery memory recalls that the cop asked the desk clerk for a total history search, though. She confirmed "Solloway" had never stayed there, in what I took to mean 'ever'. Of course, we know he did, but there isn't any need for the res when he stayed there with Alison to have been under his name -- she could have made it, or they might have used a false name. Still. I'm confused! 

 

Max and Helen are totally having an affair, I think.  That's why she returned the necklace to him, she felt guilty about his apology and wanting to make things right when she is still having her own affair.

 

Hmm. Interesting. My take on the scene was different. Helen's expression changed in that scene from "Whee! Pretty shiny thing!" to "Um, no" the very minute Noah thanked her for 'sticking it out'. Which I took to mean she hadn't yet decided she would, or that she was still too hurt by him to accept a gift meant to represent 'all better now!'. But you're making me think there might be another layer too! Hmm!

 

did not get Helen's outburst "You have lost the right to say that to me!"

 

This rang genuinely to me. It's a super common tactic for men to hurl 'you're being irrational' at women when they get mad at something he does. Helen's reclaiming her right to her own emotions, denying him a rewrite, if you will. Or in other words, she's not overreacting, she's reacting exactly appropriately; her anger is justified. Her anger is what Noah is trying to squelch, and she's not having it. To Helen, by cheating, he gave up the right to judge how she responds to his behavior.

[Boundary]

I did not get Helen's outburst "You have lost the right to say that to me!" - I didn't get the relevance of that when he tells her she's overreacting (to Whitney-?).  Here's the exchange:

 

Beneath the cool exterior Helen is still seething at Noah. She hasn't forgiven him one bit. At the restaurant, she was intrigued by his gift and thought it was related to the news about her store until he mentioned that it was for forgiving him. At which point she promptly told him to take it back. The "you've lost the right to say that to me" was basically an extension of the same thing: no gifts, no sage advice from you etc.

ETA: attica got there first.

I think her skin crawls at the thought of forgiving him. But she wants to, otherwise she'd have asked for a separation/divorce.

 

 

Which is, for me, becoming a weakness of the storytelling premise.  Given that Noah and Alison routinely disagree over simple facts, why should I believe anything that either one of them allegedly said, did or saw absent corroborating evidence? 

 

I get frustrated by the differences as well, especially when it seems like they are trivial. But then again it makes sense, who keeps track of who was wearing what, who greeted who first, where a conversation took place? It's natural to have slight differences regarding those things, in the big scheme of things they don't affect anything. However, it's quite a leap to say they are both such unreliable narrators, in the sense that everything they recall must be questioned. Not since the first couple of episodes have there been such significant differences. And by significant I mean those actions/conversations that each episode revolves around. For instance, the Oscar's-fake-police-call thing was corroborated by both versions, despite minor differences. Likewise, the trip to the Block Island, the break up, Alison's grandmother dying. (Although it's curious how Athena never features in Noah's pov, you'd think Alison's mother deserves a fleeting existence in his memory at least). In addition, they don't show us the same thing twice now, as they did in the early episodes; rather the action overlaps only slightly so that it covers more ground. I really don't think we should be paranoid and not trust anything we see just because the narrator is unreliable.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Boundary

[Kerrey92]

 

Now that I think of it, there really aren't any characters to root for, not really.

And this is why I am struggling with this show.  I need at least one character that I like and want to win.  It's too depressing to watch a show full of people I hate making bad choices.  

[Indi]

And this is why I am struggling with this show.  I need at least one character that I like and want to win.  It's too depressing to watch a show full of people I hate making bad choices.  

 

I have one, the detective. I don't know why I like him, because he's had very little screentime, but I do.

 

I also would like Helen and Cole to win somehow, but that means losing their spouses. I don't think Alison is good for Cole, maybe she never was. Noah needs to get lost. As for "the crazy kids in love", meh!, maybe their feelings for each other are genuine, but I don't care about them. I want them to lose, meaning, I want them to go their separate ways eventually and lose Cole and Helen.

[jrlr]

I might be the only one here, but I like Alison and feel genuine empathy for her.  She's a hot mess, but she has a lot of reasons to be.  I don't think she's even started getting over Gabriel's death and she's been almost sleepwalking through life since then - until she met Noah.  Personally, I think she could have made a smarter choice that that ambivalent prick, but that doesn't really matter because I think this is more about Alison coming to terms with all the loss (aside from Gabe's death, she never knew her father, her mother is a major narcissistic flake who abandoned her, her grandmother just died) than it is about the affair itself.  I think Alison is the only one I'm rooting for and hoping that somehow she comes through all of this with a better idea of who she really is and what she really wants.  I hate Cherry, don't care about Cole and feel sorry for Helen, but Alison breaks my heart.  

[Neurochick]

Helen telling Noah in therapy that she married him because she thought he was safe was really a twist of the knife (not that I blame her for it).  But if Noah was feeling emasculated before, what with his horrible in-laws, the jabs about his writing and the whole monetary issue, then I think Helen saying that was really the cherry on the icing.  I didn't marry you because you were gorgeous, smart, promising, the best lover I ever had, I thought you'd make a good father, I thought we were meant to be together, hell no, I married you because I thought you were safe - OUCH!!!

 

 

When Helen first said that to Noah, I thought it was pretty cold blooded, until I remembered that Noah said something similar to Alison, that he married Helen because he wanted to be part of something, a family, that his own family had fractured and he too felt safe with Helen.  So they married each other for the same reasons, I think.  

[Higgs]

Also, did anyone notice that, in Noah's flashback of his "conversation" with Alison in her grandmother's room, she wasn't actually talking as the dialogue went on? I figured the show was allowing us a glimpse of Noah's kind of esprit d'scalier inner monologue that impacts his recall.

L'esprit de l'escalier ("staircase wit") is a French term used in English for the predicament of thinking of the perfect retort too late, and as such has nothing to do with what was going on in that scene. I believe the unique employment of the device on "The Affair" was to suggest that in that supreme moment of the presence of death, Noah was so overwhelmed emotionally that he became almost trance-like, to the extent that any notion of precision in words spoken and thought was completely lost. It was in that sharing of a deep spiritual experience that the final bonds of love were forged between them.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Higgs

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

I may be delusionally moved by the kindness and connection that I've seen in Cole, towards Alison.*  But his remoteness in their conversation about her grandmother's DNR seemed false to me.  His speech, and body movements, the very flow of his words seemed choppy.  Like bits were cut out of the film reel.  

 

Maybe I was just floored that he abruptly dropped the DNR topic (after starting out so well), and turned to the blasted appraiser.  His distraction was blunted and cruel.  I do kinda' suspect that this scene may not be an objectively accurate memory.  I also suspect that at this point in the show, I should know that there is no such thing.

 

 

* And I never even watched Dawson's Creek.  But that show gave birth to Television Without Pity, so All Hail. 

[gingerella]

I am loving this show. I got onboard late, got sucked into the post-Thanksgiving marathon a week or so back, and cannot stop thinking about this show and it's weird storylines. Right now I'm not that invested in, nor interested in the murder aspect, I'm more intrigued with the actual people involved in the affair itself. I've tried to not overthink too much about the show's story lines or it gets really confusing, but one thing keeps bugging me, and that is when exactly did Alison go to Helen's shop in NYC? I read the threads here, and some/most of you feel it was before Helen knew about the affair. But that is so not what I got from that scene. It felt to me like it was right after the Solloways' returned home to Brooklyn. They came home earlier than planned, and most folks who decamp to the Hamptons for the summer usually stay for Labor Day Weekend and return home that Monday to the city. Alison went to NYC to stay with Jane for a few days after Cole found out about the affair not long after (because the note was left for her the day the Solloway's were heading back to NYC, then Cherry finds out, then it seemed like after that dinner they went to make peace with Oscar).  Alison clearly is wearing a summer dress in NYC, so it was still summer. She and Jane go to spy on Helen at her shop, and I thought Helen already knew exactly who Alison was, and that this was her husband's fling/mistress. I thought Helen's face flashed for a millisecond that she was going to let loose on Alison and you can see in Alison's face she seems scared for a moment, then Helen thanks her sincerely for saving her daughter's life the day they all met at the diner. I don't think Helen was in the dark about the affair in that moment, I think she knew that killing Alison with kindness was a better tactic in that moment - make the mistress feel terrible and awful and guilty as hell by thanking her, instead of giving her an ass whooping.

 

This week's episode reinforced this timeline to me, because the affair has been revealed (I don't think Noah had a coat on when he went to ask for money from Max, it was still late Summer, early Sept. at best), and then he tells Helen about the affair rather than pay off Oscar. Then we see them this past week in therapy and the discussion of the awards ceremony comes up. When we see Alison helping prep the room for the awards, I thought they were putting poinsettias out on the tables as centerpieces, so it's after Thanksgiving and before Christmastime. 

So my timeline based on the above is that Noah and Alison break up, the Solloway's go back to NYC, Noah confesses to the affair, then Alison spies on Helen at her shop and Helen acts like she doesn't know about the affair, Helen and Noah go into couples therapy, Noah goes to Montauk for the awards dinner with FIL and sees Alison there, then the whole hospital grandma dying thing happens. 

 

So my question is, do you all have a way different time line in your minds right now, or is the above what you're thinking too?  I hate not understanding time lines in stories and obviously understanding what happened, by whom and WHEN, is critical to the telling of this story. Uch, my head hurts typing all this out...

Edited December 9, 2014 by gingerella

[GeminiDancer]

When Alison goes to Helen's shop, it's before Helen finds out about Noah's panic attack. Helen finds out about the affair. Helen and Noah go home and Alison walks by their home, which is when Noah closes the curtains. At this point, she doesn't know that Helen knows about Alison. She just sees a happy family, while Noah and Helen were divided in his version.

[ShellSeeker]

Hmm. Interesting. My take on the scene was different. Helen's expression changed in that scene from "Whee! Pretty shiny thing!" to "Um, no" the very minute Noah thanked her for 'sticking it out'. Which I took to mean she hadn't yet decided she would, or that she was still too hurt by him to accept a gift meant to represent 'all better now!'. But you're making me think there might be another layer too! Hmm!

 

I'm having trouble being sympathetic towards Helen, and maybe this is the reason why. I know I should be on her side, but I'm just not. She's also got a bit of a shrill harpy thing going on that is very unpleasant. I know it's only been a few months since she found out about the affair, but the whole "you need to grovel and beg for my forgiveness indefinitely" annoys me. Turning down the gift the way she did was passive-aggressive. It would have been more honest for her to say, "I appreciate the gesture, but I'm just not ready to accept a gift like this from you yet." Granted, I've never been cheated on, so I may be way off base here. And going on and on about how they couldn't afford it because they have other bills to pay was disingenuous too.

 

Noah has made it clear that he does not like the fact that her parents have paid for their house, the private school, and all the rest of it, but she keeps accepting money from them, and allowing them to fund a lifestyle that's beyond their means. She knows that her father is going to lord it over Noah's head, and yet she keeps accepting it anyway. She lets her mother buy their 8 year old daughter French clothes that need to be dry cleaned. That would be very destructive to a relationship. My mother offered to loan my husband a chunk of change once, for something we had talked about buying. I would have been OK with that, but my husband refused, and said if we couldn't pay for it ourselves, then it was not something we could afford. So that was the end of it. If I had accepted it behind his back, or browbeaten him into taking it, he would have been very resentful towards me, and it would have festered.

[gesundheit]

Tricky show to watch. I'm frequently about to roll my eyes at how overwritten the characters are, but then I remember they aren't real, they're actually overwritten memories. Of course Helen didn't say anything that awful in therapy, of course Alison's mother isn't so heartless, etc., etc. But sometimes it feels like it's an easy way to excuse un-subtle writing. It's hard to tell. I also like to take sides, but I don't know who to judge because I don't know what's real! So it's not quite as fun. I mean I do know a few things: I know that there was an affair. I know that Noah and Alison both confessed to their spouses and were given a second chance by said spouses, and they both completely blew it the first chance they got. So as things currently stand based on the information we actually know, those are the two people I'm rooting against the most. 

 

Ruth Wilson's attempt at an American accent makes me completely insane. I do find it highly distracting. I don't know why West's bothers me less, but I think maybe it's because I'm used to his from other things.

 

Unless the lifetime achievement award was from some local group, I thought it was odd that the event was held in Montauk and not Manhattan.

It was a local group, they did mention some sort of Hamptons-esque literary society.

 

Noah has made it clear that he does not like the fact that her parents have paid for their house, the private school, and all the rest of it, but she keeps accepting money from them, and allowing them to fund a lifestyle that's beyond their means. She knows that her father is going to lord it over Noah's head, and yet she keeps accepting it anyway. 

Noah resents being beholden to his in-laws for this money, but his lifestyle requires it. On his salary and his wife's, there is zero chance they'd be raising a family in Brooklyn. He's going to have to do a lot more than be annoyed about the money. He hasn't made any efforts to make the massive paradigm shift necessary for no longer taking it.

 

I'm sad to think of the idea of an English teacher out there teaching America's teenagers that Romeo and Juliet's love was perfect and pure. Yikes.

[GeminiDancer]

Noah may not have realized it when he bought the gift, but he was throwing the affair back in her face. The minute he said "For sticking it out", I knew Helen was going to see that necklace as a reminder of what Noah did. Helen thought that she could stick it out since she saw her mother do it with her father, but she can't. He hurt her with that gift, and I saw her confession during therapy as her way of hurting him.

 

And cosigned on the yikes about Romeo and Juliet being pure love. They were just two horny teenagers. Honestly, it made me think of the youtube series, Sassy Gay Friend.

Edited December 9, 2014 by GeminiDancer

[gingerella]

When Alison goes to Helen's shop, it's before Helen finds out about Noah's panic attack. Helen finds out about the affair. Helen and Noah go home and Alison walks by their home, which is when Noah closes the curtains. At this point, she doesn't know that Helen knows about Alison. She just sees a happy family, while Noah and Helen were divided in his version.

What did I miss that I didn't get that timeline? So Alison goes to NYC, stalks Helen's shop, and that same day, or later that day, Noah has his panic attack and confesses that evening in the hospital?  They go home, Helen is furious, and when Noah closes the curtains, it's the same closing of curtains that Alison sees on the sidewalk? I think I just answered my own confused question...

[Armchair Critic]

Allison reminds me of Michelle Monoghan, that and the interrogation scenes sometimes play with my mind and make me think I am watching True Detective when I am watching this show in the wee hour of the morning on Monday (Sunday night).

 

None of the characters are sympathetic to me but at this point I want to know where it goes.

 

I was a fan of The Wire, but Jimmy McNulty has had some hard years as the actor is looking rough. I think the tousled hair is doing him no favors.

[stillshimpy]

gingerella (*grog*clink*grog*)  and another from the Wall joins us :-) 
 

Actually, I think your timeline is right.  Oscar spilled the beans to Cole, presumably in part because he knew that blackmailing Noah was not going to work, because Noah told him that he'd told Helen already.  So when Scotty was a jerk to Oscar, Oscar had nothing to lose (no hope of a ten thousand dollar payout) and told Cole that Alison had an affair. 

 

So I do think by the time that Helen was seeing Alison in the store, she knew who  Alison was and that Noah had an affair with her.  It would also go a long way towards explaining the "You have lost the right to say that to me!" to Noah, because check out Helen, the queen of under-reaction if she did know at that time. 

 

 

 

Noah may not have realized it when he bought the gift, but he was throwing the affair back in her face. The minute he said "For sticking it out", I knew Helen was going to see that necklace as a reminder of what Noah did. Helen thought that she could stick it out since she saw her mother do it with her father, but she can't. He hurt her with that gift, and I saw her confession during therapy as her way of hurting him.

 

Exactly.  Noah tied the gift to the fact that he cheated, making the gift a reminder.  Yes, it was passive-aggressive of Helen to defer to bullshit like bills, but what would the alternative be?  "How special it will be to always have an expensive reminder of the fact that you bought me jewelry as a consolation prize.  How fun it will be to wear that and when my friends ask me about it, the joy I will have in telling them it is my sticking it out present, for you sticking it in someone else.  Can you feel the love tonight? "  

 

Seriously, no matter how sincere the intent on Noah's part might have been, that was just dunderheaded. 

 

Okay, true story, with a disclaimer upfront...other than my wedding and engagement ring, I don't wear much jewelry and my husband has known me for nearly twenty years, so he knows that.  Anyway, there is a store here that will refund the price of jewelry bought in the early part of December (it's a Christmas promotion) if it snows more than two inches on Christmas day.  My husband said, "So wow, wouldn't you just want to play those odds anyway? Make kind of a modest purchase and the worst that happens is you end up with some jewelry?  Jewelry has a place in any investment portfolio, after all."  

 

I then proceeded to laugh my butt off and give him no end of crap, "You silver tongued devil you!  What girl wouldn't be wooed by something purchased as having a place in any investment portfolio?  It would make such a fun story for my friends too.  You romantic fool!"  and we laughed together, because I don't like jewelry that much and if he's got the sense god gave a goat, what he'd do if he wants to play those odds is to buy something now and stash until our anniversary in January, so that I'd be less likely to catch on to the 'wise investment portfolio strategy'.  

 

By Noah saying, 'for sticking it out' he was taking a pass on that goat sense.  

Edited December 9, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Catronia]

Yeah, I saw the Romeo and Juliet discussion as a reflection of Noah's view of his relationship with Alison.  He romanticizes the play to justify his affair, which he sees as "pure and innocent," uncorrupted by his dependence on his wife's money, or Alison's involvement in the drug trade.  If not for the "grown-ups" (Helen, her parents, Alison's in-laws), Noah believes they have a pure and perfect love.  Which is, of course, complete illusion/delusion.  He is trying to rewrite his adolescence which was interrupted and damaged by the death of his mother.  I thought that was the most illuminating scene in the episode.  It also could explain why he is such a weak parent to adolescent children:  He is still an adolescent.

 

Helen's diatribe at the therapist was truly cruel and awful.  I've always been Team Helen and Cole, but that lost Helen a lot of points with me.  (Although since it is Noah's memory, who knows if she really said all that...)  Saying she was so wonderful that she could have had anyone but she settled for a loser like him, because she knew he would be eternally pathetically grateful for that, is about the most damaging thing I can imagine saying to a romantic partner.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Catronia

[Higgs]

I'm sad to think of the idea of an English teacher out there teaching America's teenagers that Romeo and Juliet's love was perfect and pure. Yikes.

Not only can adolescent love be perfect and pure, it may also be the origin of all "love".

From: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_basis_of_love

"Evolutionary psychology has proposed several explanations for love. Human infants and children are for a very long time dependent on parental help. Love has therefore been seen as a mechanism to promote mutual parental support of children for an extended time period."

Given the relatively short lifespans and harsh living conditions of our ancient ancestors, procreation had to occur shortly after the onset of puberty (which happened at a later age than it does today) between people who hadn't even graduated from a selective college. Without the natural selection for that primal, intense, and ultimately infant-protecting bond, which most adults enviously wish they could recapture all the rest of their lives, none of us might be here. "Mature" love, typically subject to hidden calculations of shared interests, income potential, family approval, friend envy, etc. (not too dissimilar from Elaine's evaluation - on "Seinfeld" - of whether a would-be lover was "sponge-worthy"), is ultimately self-interested and therefore corrupt. If we want to dissuade the kids from fucking, at least let's not do it by condescending to the nature and validity of their emotions. Preach, Noah!

Edited December 9, 2014 by Higgs

[baky]

I might be the only one here, but I like Alison and feel genuine empathy for her.  She's a hot mess, but she has a lot of reasons to be.  I don't think she's even started getting over Gabriel's death and she's been almost sleepwalking through life since then - until she met Noah.  Personally, I think she could have made a smarter choice that that ambivalent prick, but that doesn't really matter because I think this is more about Alison coming to terms with all the loss (aside from Gabe's death, she never knew her father, her mother is a major narcissistic flake who abandoned her, her grandmother just died) than it is about the affair itself.  I think Alison is the only one I'm rooting for and hoping that somehow she comes through all of this with a better idea of who she really is and what she really wants.  I hate Cherry, don't care about Cole and feel sorry for Helen, but Alison breaks my heart.  

I love Alison too and I kinda understand her. She seems alone even when she's around Cole and his family. I hate Cherry aswell and I don't trust Cole. Not to mention Alison's mother, come on, can we even consider Athena a mother? She is herself only with Noah, and he may not be the man of the year but I still like him. I ship them together because they're fucked up but they understand each other.

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

Uh-oh.  Tom and Lorenzo are not pleased.  http://tomandlorenzo.com/2014/12/the-affair-episode-8/

 

And neither is Emily Nussbaum http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/15/small-differences

[Cirien]

Romeo and Juliet is classified as a tragedy and not one of Shakespeare's romance plays for a very good reason: It's not love and MMV but I don't think William meant it as a love story. It's the story of two stupid teenagers *thinking* they are in love when what they really are is infactuated with the idea of each other. Remember Romeo is mooning over Rosaline at the start of the play. It's a tragedy because they are governed by their hormone rather than emotions: They are two different things.

 

And Psychologists accept the idea of "pair bonding" they also state that "romantic love" comes in three stages: The first if which is infatuation which can last up to two years. Noah and Alison are still very much in the "infatuation" stage so yeah I don't see this "In Love" that they are both experiencing. I*t's also worth noting that the concept of love coming before a marriage is very much a *western" concept. So MMV but I don't see this love that Alison and Noah feel for each other

[stillshimpy]

Whoa, Nussbaum is beyond peevish into vexed and all the way into quite put out.  Still, she did make me laugh several times.  

 

I do agree that there is a slight problem with the murder mystery structure, in that, we have absolutely no reason to care that Scotty is dead.  He's almost entirely unknown to the audience and what we do know seems to indicate he's a grown man with a thing for underage girls.  So Pokey the Detective (Hee! TM Tom and Lorenzo, that's bloody marvelous) being this dogged about the entire thing would work better if I could actually name one thing about Scotty other than "He seems like a complete pain in the ass and a hound-dog for teen girls.  Ew. Maybe they all killed him and just missed Oscar."  

 

Thanks for those links, Rima.  I really enjoyed both but I have to admit to agreeing more with Tom and Lorenzo.  Yes, this is the episode where I felt like, "Okay, there needs to be a little less screwing around, because the details here cannot match. Ever.  Wildly different."

 

From their review:

 

 

 

We started pondering specific scenes that annoyed us, like that eyeroll-worthy classroom scene, which basically checked off every cliched White Knight box there is in service to the idea that Noah Is A Good Teacher. It felt like something we’d seen a million times in lesser stories (the totally “down” white guy teacher “connecting” with those mythically fearsome and impenetrable figures, black teenagers)

 

Yes, it was only by remembering that this is Noah's view of himself that saved me from the giant "My, how very Dangerous Minds of you, Noah." eye-roll.

 

 

 

and came across unbelievably hokey and white-centric.

 

Again, only bearable when I make a very concerted effort to remember this is the world according to Noah.  Who was equally annoying, while living in his in-law sponsored brownstone, talking about the merits of his possibly disturbed son being bullied into some understanding of the street.  WTF was that?  Noah's world is a strange place when it comes to his kids.  

 

 

 

That’s when we had the realization about whose job it is to figure out the truth. It’s ours, as impossible as that may sound...When Noah is shown to be a charismatic and “with it” teacher who brings Shakespeare alive to his students, we’re not watching Noah. We’re watching Noah’s version of Noah; the guy random women throw themselves at, whose family mistreats and wounds him at every turn, who is a genius that the world simply hasn’t recognized yet, and who gets to be a hero whenever the chance to be one arises (and according to him, it arises all the time)..... Both the Shakespeare scene and the therapy scene were setups for the “I love you” at the end of the episode. How could poor, put-upon, heroic Noah not love this wounded woman over the wife who all but claims she never loved him?

 

I really like that passage (I did snip some for space).  

 

Nussbaum made me laugh for two minutes straight saying that in Noah's version Alison is a "succubus in a tank top" and in her own something like a drip in cap sleeves.

Edited December 10, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Blakeston]

Noah was definitely wrong about the point of Romeo and Juliet being that their love was perfect and pure. Shakespeare made it pretty clear that they were being naive and melodramatic, and seeing each other through rose-colored glasses.

 

But I also think Shakespeare intended for their romance to be seen as beautiful in spite of all that. I disagree with the idea that the tragedy of the play was that Romeo and Juliet screwed everything up with their teenage stupidity. I think the tragedy was that the hatred and violence in their society meant they had to die merely because of their sweetly naive puppy love.

 

When Helen first said that to Noah, I thought it was pretty cold blooded, until I remembered that Noah said something similar to Alison, that he married Helen because he wanted to be part of something, a family, that his own family had fractured and he too felt safe with Helen.  So they married each other for the same reasons, I think. 

 

I think there's a big difference between the kind of safety that Noah was talking about, and the kind of safety that Helen was talking about in Noah's memory of the therapy session.

 

Helen basically said that she felt safe with Noah because he was socially beneath her, and it was obvious that she could do better - and so she could safely assume that he'd never cheat on her, because he'd be so grateful just to be her husband.

 

I don't think Noah was implying anything as harsh as that when he talked about feeling safe with Helen.

 

gingerella (*grog*clink*grog*)  and another from the Wall joins us :-) 
 

Actually, I think your timeline is right.  Oscar spilled the beans to Cole, presumably in part because he knew that blackmailing Noah was not going to work, because Noah told him that he'd told Helen already.  So when Scotty was a jerk to Oscar, Oscar had nothing to lose (no hope of a ten thousand dollar payout) and told Cole that Alison had an affair. 

 

So I do think by the time that Helen was seeing Alison in the store, she knew who  Alison was and that Noah had an affair with her.  It would also go a long way towards explaining the "You have lost the right to say that to me!" to Noah, because check out Helen, the queen of under-reaction if she did know at that time. 

 

Yeah, when Helen saw Alison at the store, I think Helen had already figured out what was going on (at least on some level).

 

If Helen hadn't suspected that anything was going on between Noah and Alison, I suspect her reaction to seeing Alison in the store would have been, "Wow, what a coincidence! It's good to see you again."

 

Instead, she very pointedly asked Alison something like, "So did you just happen to walk in here?"

[missy jo]

So my timeline based on the above is that Noah and Alison break up, the Solloway's go back to NYC, Noah confesses to the affair, then Alison spies on Helen at her shop and Helen acts like she doesn't know about the affair, Helen and Noah go into couples therapy, Noah goes to Montauk for the awards dinner with FIL and sees Alison there, then the whole hospital grandma dying thing happens.

 

Yes, gingerella, this is the timeline I thought, too. I thought it was clear that in the shop in Brooklyn, Helen knew about the affair and deliberately approached Alison in that way. I was cringing throughout that scene.

Edited December 10, 2014 by missy jo

[Cirien]

Noah was definitely wrong about the point of Romeo and Juliet being that their love was perfect and pure. Shakespeare made it pretty clear that they were being naive and melodramatic, and seeing each other through rose-colored glasses.

 

But I also think Shakespeare intended for their romance to be seen as beautiful in spite of all that. I disagree with the idea that the tragedy of the play was that Romeo and Juliet screwed everything up with their teenage stupidity. I think the tragedy was that the hatred and violence in their society meant they had to die merely because of their sweetly naive puppy love.

 

 

I think there's a big difference between the kind of safety that Noah was talking about, and the kind of safety that Helen was talking about in Noah's memory of the therapy session.

 

Helen basically said that she felt safe with Noah because he was socially beneath her, and it was obvious that she could do better - and so she could safely assume that he'd never cheat on her, because he'd be so grateful just to be her husband.

 

I don't think Noah was implying anything as harsh as that when he talked about feeling safe with Helen.

 

 

Yeah, when Helen saw Alison at the store, I think Helen had already figured out what was going on (at least on some level).

 

If Helen hadn't suspected that anything was going on between Noah and Alison, I suspect her reaction to seeing Alison in the store would have been, "Wow, what a coincidence! It's good to see you again."

 

Instead, she very pointedly asked Alison something like, "So did you just happen to walk in here?"

I think Shakespeare wrote about love from a teen's point of view. Which is influenced by hormone and a very *idealised* idea of love is...which is not the reality. It's pure in that it's *innocent .But "love" seen through though those eyes is not love. It's hormone plus all those courtly tales of Guinevere and Lancelot. You've said it yourself. Romeo and Juliet had "puppy love" yes not something that should be discounted but also not something you should *break your marriage up over*

And the producers have basically said Helen didn't know about the affair  until after Noah's heart attack. If she was suspicious about anything it'd be why someone from *Montauk* would be in the city to but a gift. If I were in Helen shoes I wouldn't necessarily think that this woman was having an affair with my husband

[Cirien]

I have one, the detective. I don't know why I like him, because he's had very little screentime, but I do.

 

I also would like Helen and Cole to win somehow, but that means losing their spouses. I don't think Alison is good for Cole, maybe she never was. Noah needs to get lost. As for "the crazy kids in love", meh!, maybe their feelings for each other are genuine, but I don't care about them. I want them to lose, meaning, I want them to go their separate ways eventually and lose Cole and Helen.

I think Alison and Noah *do* lose. I mean look at them. Do they look like people who've found their happily ever after?

[GeminiDancer]

Yes, gingerella, this is the timeline I thought, too. I thought it was clear that in the shop in Brooklyn, Helen knew about the affair and deliberately approached Alison in that way. I was cringing throughout that scene.

 

I don't think Helen knew about the affair at that point, I suspect that Alison thought Helen suspected it. The visit to the shop came before because after Noah told Helen at the hospital, they came home together. 

[stillshimpy]

Well, the problem with that timeline is that Oscar originally was trying to blackmail Noah.

Alison is in the city because Oscar has outed her affair to Cole.

Would Oscar have outed Alison affair if he was still blackmailing Noah? It doesn't seem likely.

Edited December 10, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Cirien]

Well, the problem with that timeline is that Oscar originally was trying to blackmail Noah.

Alison is in the city because Oscar has outed her affair to Cole.

Would Oscar have outed Alison affair if he was still blackmailing Noah? It doesn't seem likely.

why can't he be doing both? According to Allison POV he wants her all the time. (like he could be a fine upstanding gentleman for all we know. It's Allison and Noah's POV that paint him in a bad light) Neither know about the deal he's made with the other why couldn't he reveal Allison's affair after Scotty punches him?

[stillshimpy]

why can't he be doing both?

 

He could be, but it's unlikely he would be.  Oscar had ten grand on the line, so it seems like part of not telling Helen (presumably from Oscar's standpoint because he thinks the affair is ongoing) would mean keeping it secret, so that neither is busted.  Once Cole knows, Oscar risks the secret getting out...before he has any money in hand.  That's why he wouldn't be doing both.  Telling Cole has the ability to take away his leverage over Noah by having Helen find out before Oscar has a cent.  

Edited December 10, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Cirien]

But maybe it was a emotional thing from being punched by scotty? He might not have said anything if that hadn't happened. Also Allison stole from the diner so he might have wanted to get back at her

[gingerella]

shimpy! By ye olde gods, tis good to see some familiar faces watching this one! All Hail... So yeah, thanks for the sanity check on the timeline. I've watched that Helen's Shop scene a few times now it just feels like she's being stone cold and you can almost see her thought bubble saying, "Do I go with Plan A and go crazy and whoop her ass right here in my shop, or do kill her with kindness and make her feel even more guilty and shitty and possibly mortify her into never ever coming near my husband ever again...oh, I choose Plan B, annnnd, ACTION!"

 

I guess I'm gonna re-watch the last two epis to make sure I believe my own timeline but for now I do.

 

Oh, and I'm with shimpy in that I don't really give a shit about Scotty right now so, yanno, the murder is moot for me at this point in the story. Also, related to Scotty, some folks have mentioned they think perhaps Scotty gets Whitney pregnant, but that would be 3 years into the future, right, if it's true...And where did you all see Scotty enjoying underage girls, I missed that part.

 

Also, some folks have said they think Alison's kid she refers to in the future is Noah's. I would sort of like if that were the case, but it also means that they would have to have sex again in the next few epis or next year, because Cole told her they should try to get pregnant again fairly soon after the kerfluffle was revealed, and she still isn't pregnant when Noah sees her in late Fall/early Winter so it couldn't be his from their Summer affair, right?

[neonlite]

 

Romeo and Juliet is classified as a tragedy and not one of Shakespeare's romance plays for a very good reason: It's not love and MMV but I don't think William meant it as a love story. It's the story of two stupid teenagers *thinking* they are in love when what they really are is infactuated with the idea of each other. Remember Romeo is mooning over Rosaline at the start of the play. It's a tragedy because they are governed by their hormone rather than emotions: They are two different things.

Shakespeare's romance plays are not love stories but the magical tragicomedies: The Winter's Tale, The Tempest, Cymbeline, and Pericles, Prince of Tyre. According to Wikipedia, "The romances call for spectacular effects to be shown onstage, including storms at sea, opulent interior and exterior scenery, dream settings and the illusion of time passing. Scholars have argued that the late plays deal with faith and redemption, and are variations on themes of rewarding virtue over vice."

 

I think Shakespeare clearly meant us to feel Romeo and Juliet were "in love"  because their speeches together often comprise a single sonnet which is unique to them in this play. But, of course, they are star crossed: their love cannot survive in a hate filled world where marriage serves to unite families for political advancement rather than to unite two souls.

 

Whether Alison and Noah are in love  or just have the hots for each other and fabricate the love story to excuse their affair is another matter.  

[Pallas]

The timeline is that Helen learns about the affair from Noah (in the hospital, after his panic attack) later in the same day that Alison visits the store.  While Helen seems to have suspected before this, Noah had not yet confirmed (and Oscar hadn't called) when Alison came by the store.  

 

Oscar had blurted out the truth to Cole after Scotty pulled a Scotty and sucker-punched him  while Cole was trying to mend fences. He didn't intend to let the cat out of the bag, but pulled an Oscar and did.  He did not, however, reveal, the name of Alison's lover. He still had that leverage on Noah, with Noah and Helen now safely distant from the Lockharts.  

[stillshimpy]

The timeline is that Helen learns about the affair from Noah (in the hospital, after his panic attack)

 

Why do you think that Noah had his panic attack the same day that Alison was in the store though? Did Helen take a call regarding Noah while Alison was there? I can't recall.  Or was it that Alison later goes and hangs out on the street outside of the window and Noah draws the drapes that makes you think that it was the same day?  Or was it both?  

 

 

 

Oscar had blurted out the truth to Cole after Scotty pulled a Scotty and sucker-punched him  while Cole was trying to mend fences. He didn't intend to let the cat out of the bag, but pulled an Oscar and did.  He did not, however, reveal, the name of Alison's lover. He still had that leverage on Noah, with Noah and Helen now safely distant from the Lockharts.

 

Ten thousand dollars worth of stupid? I honestly just don't see that happening to anyone, Pallas and not to Oscar, because we'd seen him in front of Helen, being shoved by Noah and not being that dim.  He seems more of a grudge saver than that.  

 

Also, it doesn't track that "he didn't reveal the name of Allison's lover, so he still had leverage" because although Cole didn't apparently demand to know "who was it?" almost all spouses would.  Even under-reacting WASP Helen wanted to know who, first thing.  Also, Oscar didn't know it was over. 

 

Don't get me wrong, it's possible, it just doesn't make a great deal of sense as an action-plan of any kind.   

 

In the review linked to up above, one of things the character of Noah is called out for is remembering things in a light that paints him in the most heroic lights.  So, just as a for instance, what if Oscar blurting things out was the catalyst for Helen finding out?  Meaning, Noah didn't decide to unburden his conscience, but rather Helen asks him after Alison comes to the store? That the Noah's phone call to Oscar -- his vaguely noble kiss off to the blackmailer -- actually didn't happen that way at all.  

 

Sometimes the details are so far apart, there's no way for the stories to match.  Like Noah waking Alison up to say that he thinks her grandmother is passing (which was the biggest load of crap ever, have you ever been in a hospital? Alarms go off like mad at the slightest alteration in vitals on a critical patient) and gently guides Alison to her grandmother's bedside.  In Alison version, her grandmother is hooked up to every known machine and in a critical care unit, after her heart was jump started and Athena is in attendance.  

 

I have to say, Alison's version seems closer to possible, whereas Noah's has that dramatic flare (and even includes Alison speaking lines she clearly isn't saying).   So what I'm also wondering is if Noah's call to Oscar to tell him "I told her."  is another one of those inventions.  

 

 

Also Allison stole from the diner so he might have wanted to get back at her

 

Alison took two pies.  It would be a rare person that would want revenge for two pies so much that he'd blow a chance at ten thousand dollars.  

 

It's also possible that we're simply dealing with another area of the narrative that doesn't match up for details, so there's that too.  

 

 

 

And where did you all see Scotty enjoying underage girls, I missed that part.

 

When Scotty meets Whitney it's at the ranch and Scotty is clearly flirting with her, while Whitney is saying  "I'm a dancer, I have loose hips" and Scotty practically drools on her.  Cole comes up and essentially asks what's wrong with him, that she's only 16.  Scotty leers.   Later at her grandparent's party, Scotty attempts to go upstairs with Whitney, despite knowing she's sixteen and gets busted going up the stairs with her.  

 

So we did learn that he wasn't in the least put off by knowing that she was sixteen.  

Edited December 10, 2014 by stillshimpy

[GeminiDancer]

 

Why do you think that Noah had his panic attack the same day that Alison was in the store though? Did Helen take a call regarding Noah while Alison was there? I can't recall.  Or was it that Alison later goes and hangs out on the street outside of the window and Noah draws the drapes that makes you think that it was the same day?  Or was it both?

 

It was Noah closing the curtain that made it the same day.

 

 

Also, it doesn't track that "he didn't reveal the name of Allison's lover, so he still had leverage" because although Cole didn't apparently demand to know "who was it?" almost all spouses would.

 

Cole didn't ask that from Oscar. He asked that of Alison. Initially, it didn't seem like he'd care who as long as she dealt with the fallout. It wasn't until the time apart that he asked her who she was with. Oscar still would have that leverage because neither Noah nor Alison would reach out to each other to say that Oscar knew or that their spouses knew. Also, Oscar hates the Lockharts and desires Alison that much that he would use Alison's affair against them in a split second.

Edited December 10, 2014 by GeminiDancer

[Cirien]

Also Helen receives a call in the store, about Noah, when Allison is there