S04.E10: The Cold War

[basiltherat]

Didn't Get Smart have a robot named Hymie?  We have Creepy Boy and Martine!

 

Also, why did not Shaw share her fabulous sandwich with ol' buddy Bear?  I bet Bear was wondering that, too.

[shura]

Bear is probably much too smart to be into digestive issues. BTW, is the show using the same dog as before? Didn't Bear use to be much darker? And less yellow?

 

Most disturbing was that Samaritan's admission that her hardware had probably been compromised wasn't accompanied by any sense of anxiety or concern.  An AI's perception of reality is only as good as the sensory data it receives from it's hardware.  To discover that this sensory input was being massaged prior to assimilation should, I believe, be of real concern.

 

Yes, but what does concern look like when experienced by a machine? It's probably no more than an acknowledgement of a new problem to solve (that is, pretty much what we saw). In the same vein, what's "false sense of security"? Just an incorrectly calculated numerical value. So if the Machine is "luring Samaritan into a false sense of security", it is simply feeding Samaritan bogus numbers. Which circles back to the question of input - how can Samaritan trust any input provided by the Machine?

[Netfoot]

Ideally, from Samaritan's point of view, none of her input data should come from the Machine.  Samaritan's input should be raw data from security cameras, satellites, phone taps, network data streams, etc, etc.  If this data is intercepted by the Machine and altered before being channeled to Samaritan, then Samaritan simply can't believe her own senses.  That's why I think the realization that her input datastreams are being tampered with should be of overriding importance to Samaritan.

 

By the way, has a gender been identified for Samaritan?  Root refers to the Machine as "her" and we follow suit.  But what about Samaritan?

[stealinghome]

That's why I think the realization that her input datastreams are being tampered with should be of overriding importance to Samaritan.

I don't disagree, but I thought how unconcerned Samaritan was was chillingly effective in its own way. He was like "You tampered with me? Whatever, it won't stop me from crushing you like an ant." Samaritan's great, grand arrogance at play again.

 

By the way, has a gender been identified for Samaritan?  Root refers to the Machine as "her" and we follow suit.  But what about Samaritan?

I think it's pretty telling that they had a male "speak" for Samaritan, while Root--a woman--was/is The Machine.

 

I was thinking about their conversation, and it struck me that The Machine really does take after Finch. Not just in that it cares about and values human life and free will, but also in that it, too, unapologetically wants to play God all the time. I mean, Samaritan flat-out asked The Machine why she thought she got to decide whether Samaritan was "born" or not, and The Machine's response was "Because I care and I know better." That's pretty much exactly what Finch said while "on the stand" in 3x23--a hubris all his and The Machine's own. He may not want to admit it, but The Machine is absolutely, totally his kid. (Side note, it's hard to blame Samaritan for being pissed The Machine tried to kill him in the womb--but damn, The Machine and Root were both taken aback at just how pissed Samaritan is. Someone's cranky.)

[shura]

Root referred to Samaritan as "her" as well, but I'm pretty sure what's-his-name said that Samaritan "wanted to show the Machine what the city looks like under his control". Or maybe it was "its control"? I'm just going to keep calling them all "it".

 

Ideally, from Samaritan's point of view, none of her input data should come from the Machine.

 

Exactly. What was the meeting about then? Just idle curiosity about meeting the only other one of its kind? Nothing of practical importance could be negotiated there because Samaritan should know not to trust anything coming out of the Machine. Well, I suppose Samaritan did establish for a fact the important thing that its input does not correspond to reality as far as Team Machine is concerned since Root did not appear as Root to it. Ha, who was playing whom there?

[Boundary]

That's pretty much exactly what Finch said while "on the stand" in 3x23--a hubris all his and The Machine's own. He may not want to admit it, but The Machine is absolutely, totally his kid. 

 

 

I agree but with a slight slant. Finch was adamant that he may have have written a code to control the machine's moral compass but it will never work. Well, it actually worked. Based on the Machine's conversation with Samaritan Finch's influence is more profound than he'll ever believe. The Machine is totally his baby.

[webruce]

Root played a good Bernstein Bear, and we see Sameen Shaw cuffed to a chair. She shows how easy it is to pick it.

The 1st number Rachel Farrow sits waiting to met her hubby and Decima leader Jeremy Lambert comes to tell about her abusive husband. Reese can't interfere because she works in a government building and her hubby is a hedge fund manager. He dies of an insulin od. She had bought a gun. She she was planning on stopping him. So Lambert looked good at first.

It was a surprise that at first Shaw agreed with Samaritan it took out a potential killer. Finch wasn't to happy. Later Shaw sees it was just the beginning of bad things. Finch don't want to relie on the machine to be judge, jury and executioner. Root told that Samaritan was running the city. Sam does like at least Bear, but was worried when Root was meeting the kid.

1973 London- Young Greer we find id a MI6 agent. His boss Blackwood, who we find is a double agent and is taken out by Greer later. Oleg Luski is former KGB. He lets him go, wonder if we will see him again?

It is hard to believe that Samaritan sent info to Police and cleaned up all crime in NYC. Like someone else posted, some crimes can't be prevented or stopped in advance. So two dozen Policemen were also arrested? Were they HR leftovers or other crimes they did?

Samaritan alerted Swat to the 2nd numbers bomb in his ofice. Reese had little to with that one. Fusco is a very happy man on all the busts.

Martine is not happy that she can't locate Shaw. She also said it wasn't nice that she didn't fight back, much. Looks like next episode where we see Shaw left with a bag of weapons that Martine maybe in trouble. Greer thinks the machine is no match for Samaritan.

Well after Lambert and Root talk over the meeting of ASI, and she says no all Heck breaks loose. Maybe she should have plugged Lambert. Or bugged him??

When the crimes started coming hard it was nice that Reese warned Fusco about it being a conspiracy. The witness protection list being stolen will be hard to save. To bad Reese didn't put Greer's name on it. Wonder where Control and Senator Ross Garrison are? Wouldn't you hear from them about Samaritan messing up? Reese meets Fusco and finds 3 more dead in witness protection.

I liked the meeting in the Church, Lambert siting and Roots behind him with a gun, and Martine sits behind her with a gun and Reese on the balcony with a sniper rifle. Martine does a shooting finger stroke at Reese when her and Lambert leaves. Will be interesting if one of the team takes her out. Or will she live a long time like Hersh did. Miss that guy. Also miss Zoey Morgan and Leon Toe.

Samaritan vs. The Machine. When Root walked into the school room, or whatever it was to talk to Sam(Samaritan), or Gabriel as IMDB has him listed, I thought from his look and size from behind it was Hetty of NCIS:LA, lol. So what was he, programed to speak Samaritan speak? He didn't hesitate or seem afraid of Samantha Groves(Root). Human beings need structure. Who's kid is Gabriel? "Only believe in one thing, me, I'm a God!" said Gabriel. Root replies, "They are only monsters!". Gabriel returns with, "The Machine is a fallen God, I can learn from her mistakes!" He is supposedly a Jr. hacker?

Wonder what Elias and Dominic think about all of this?

Have to have Commissioner Frank Reagan(Blue Bloods) straighten out that logging system for Petty Crimes in the NYPD.

[Syme]

"Bomb number twenty, return to the bomb bay..."

 

Where else but POI on PTV could I ever find someone knowing that line......!!!!

 

Sgt. Pinback, it's time to feed the alien.....

[Zahdii]

I think that Root is a goner.  Both Samaritan and it's lackey both asked Root if she was the only one who could speak to the Machine.  She blew off the answer each time, possibly because although she's the only one who is actually talking to the Machine, she knows that Harold could, too, if he wanted to.  For that matter, it's a possibility that John could renew his 'relationship' with the Machine.

 

Samaritan could think that an easy way to win would be to take the Machine's 'voice' from it by taking out Root.

[Netfoot]

Samaritan could think that an easy way to win would be to take the Machine's 'voice' from it by taking out Root.

 

But the Machine  could initiate a new communications protocol any time it liked, with anyone willing to listen.  True, cochlear implants aren't fast or easy, but Samaritan's kid doesn't have one and they seem to manage OK.   Eliminating Root would  only result in a brief inconvenience.  (I know Root isn't universally liked, but I think she is a fabulous character and brilliantly portrayed, so I hope the speculation of her imminent demise is incorrect.)

 

Where else but POI on PTV could I ever find someone knowing that line......!!!!

 

Where else but POI on PTV could I ever be sure it would be recognized? 

[bros402]

By the way, has a gender been identified for Samaritan?  Root refers to the Machine as "her" and we follow suit.  But what about Samaritan?

I think Greer called Samaritan "he" this episode. Might've misheard, though.

[wilnil]

Re: whether Fusco will (figure out | be told) what's going on -- honestly, I think he'd been given enough clues to figure it out long ago, and that when it comes down to it, he doesn't want to know.

 

As far back as Season 1, while Carter was digging into Reese's past, Reese was having Fusco dig into Harold's, and Fusco uncovered not only a bunch of his aliases but also his connection to Nathan Ingram (and the fact that Harold was top of his MIT class). And while Fusco was rolling his eyes as Henry Peck (the NSA analyst targeted for death by Team Control/Special Counsel) insisted that the government must've built a surveillance analysis computer, he later found out that Peck was missing after being in a car that was shot up and set afire, which should have made him reconsider whether Peck was nuts. 

 

He's seen a lot of oddities since then, including at least one or two instances where someone has referred to the Machine right in front of him. And since Carter herself had it figured out by mid-Season 3, what are the chances that she and Fusco never talked about their weird allies and how they knew what they did?

 

My personal feeling is Fusco's seen that the knowledge the inner circle of Team Machine has is dangerous knowledge -- he knows the CIA tried to take out John, that Harold was taken captive twice (by "Fruit Loops" then by Greer's bunch), that weird government "spooks" periodically come sniffing around (Hersh) and take interest in mysterious homicides (Alicia Corwin) and that he himself had to help fake Shaw's death to keep her would-be killers from trying again. I think he's decided the best way to not become the center of that kind of attention is not to ask any questions.

[Dowel Jones]

By the way, has a gender been identified for Samaritan?  Root refers to the Machine as "her" and we follow suit.  But what about Samaritan?

 

The upcoming conversations between the two of them should be verrrrry interesting.

[DEM]

Here is an issue I'm struggling with. It seemed to remain a big priority that Shaw stay hidden ("She's gone! GASP! SHOCK!"), and I'm not clear why that is. What does it matter at this point?  The only thing that should matter is that Team Samaritan know she's alive and kicking in NYC. They also know that Root is around, and so is Reese (though from surfing around it appears that the question of whether Martine got a good look at his face is up for debate [though why one would need to see his face clearly in order to guess that the large man with dark hair wearing a dark suit was very likely John Reese, I don't know]).  Would someone take a stab at this, please?

Edited December 18, 2014 by DEM

[MrWhyt]

 

Here is an issue I'm struggling with. It seemed to remain a big priority that Shaw stay hidden ("She's gone! GASP! SHOCK!"), and I'm not clear why that is. What does it matter at this point?

They know what her cover ID was. They way I think their protection worked was that Samaritan would do a facial recognition scan of them and then the server that Root tampered with would spit out their alias's info instead of their real ID. With their cover known they can then tell Samaritan to link that cover to the real ID. Samaritan can now use it's abilities to look for her cover and send it's assets after her.

[mad_typist]

Here is an issue I'm struggling with. It seemed to remain a big priority that Shaw stay hidden ("She's gone! GASP! SHOCK!"), and I'm not clear why that is. What does it matter at this point?  The only thing that should matter is that Team Samaritan know she's alive and kicking in NYC. They also know that Root is around, and so is Reese (though from surfing around it appears that the question of whether Martine got a good look at his face is up for debate [though why one would need to see his face clearly in order to guess that the large man with dark hair wearing a dark suit was very likely John Reese, I don't know]).  Would someone take a stab at this, please?

 

It matters, because now that Shaw is no longer hidden from Samaritan's view, it can essentially track her movements around the city. More importantly, it can figure out who she's talking to, and where she does it, which means that the other identities can be sussed out and essentially burned. It also means they could figure out the likely location of the homebase that the team is using.

[DEM]

 

because now that Shaw is no longer hidden from Samaritan's view

How is that?  She was still 'hidden' in the department store, right before Martine started shooting.  That also didn't make sense to me, by the way.

[mad_typist]

Possible reason: before Shaw's cover was blown, Samaritan probably relied on facial recognition mapping to link Shaw's face to her real identity. Since the tampering made Shaw's face map to what appeared to be an irrelevant identity, Samaritan ignored her. But now that the identity itself has been shown to be relevant and a threat, the blind spot no longer works.

 

Said another way....

 

Before: Samaritan sees Shaw's face, goes "Oh, that's Sameen Whateverherfakenameis. And in my database, that identity is not a threat. Moving on."

 

Now: Samaritan sees Shaw's face, goes "Oh, that's Sameen Whateverherfakenameis, and in my database, that identity is a threat. KILL KILL KILL."

[DEM]

So essentially what you're saying is that the hack to the servers would allow Samaritan to mark Team Machine as deviants whenever they stepped out of line (which it did for both Finch and Shaw earlier in the season), but if an agent (e.g., Martine) tried to apprehend them, then Samaritan would encounter a 404 error. 

 

Once Greer discovered something was up, he told Samaritan, and Samaritan wrote code to recursively override the 404 on Sameen Gray. 

 

But for some reason no one has thought to hold up a picture of Finch and tell Samaritan to find a match for that face and then do its 404-correction on that identity. Or have agents posted outside the church to take photos of whomever might have accompanied Root.

 

All of that hurts me.

Edited December 18, 2014 by DEM

[Helena Dax]

The boy was good, but I'm not sure I liked the way  they talked to each other: it was too human, as if they needed to use the same conventions that we use to communicate. I'm really curious about him, though. His identity and, especially, why he was acting as if he were nothing but Samaritan's avatar. You could say Root's emotions were her emotions; that kid's emotions were Samaritan's emotions. Is he brainwashed or something?  I hope we get an answer.

 

Loved the episode. The humour was great and the tension was killing me. Samaritan is wonderfully scary, as villains should be, and his minions are interesting. I liked the new guy, can we keep him?

 

Can't wait to know what happens now. This show is amazing. I've enjoyed it since the beginning, but I never could imagine it would lead to so much sci-fi awesomeness.

[DeLurker]

I really liked the ep. It kept me on edge the whole time even though not that much happened per se.

Usually immune to Amy Acker's charm - don't have strong pro or con opinions about her, but Root bear was adorable.

[shura]

They know what her cover ID was. They way I think their protection worked was that Samaritan would do a facial recognition scan of them and then the server that Root tampered with would spit out their alias's info instead of their real ID. With their cover known they can then tell Samaritan to link that cover to the real ID. Samaritan can now use it's abilities to look for her cover and send it's assets after her.

 

I forgot, why is it that only Root can have a new identity every day? Was that server programmed to have a million identities available for Root and only a single identity for each of the other TM members?

[Syme]

But the Machine  could initiate a new communications protocol any time it liked, with anyone willing to listen.  True, cochlear implants aren't fast or easy, but Samaritan's kid doesn't have one and they seem to manage OK.   Eliminating Root would  only result in a brief inconvenience.  (I know Root isn't universally liked, but I think she is a fabulous character and brilliantly portrayed, so I hope the speculation of her imminent demise is incorrect.)

 

I must have missed how the Machine Kid is plugged into The Machine. [uSB? 802.11?]

 

And nod on Root.

Besides, anyone Bear likes is good with me....

 

 

Where else but POI on PTV could I ever be sure it would be recognized?

 

Well, next month, right here  but I digress.

[merylinkid]

I am not sure it works that way for the cover identities.  When they got the covers, Root said they were numbers to which Samaritan was blind.   Then this episode when Root was talkign to the kid, he said it was very confusing for him because he knew she was in front of him but could not see her.   Not that it goes to a known irrelevant but that it does not EXIST.   If someone doesn't have a number, then Samaritan has nothing to build on to create an identity.   By blowing her cover, Shaw gave Samaritan info in which to build on.   And that build was a threat to Samaritan.

[stealinghome]

Yeah, that's what Root implied in 4x05 and 4x09--that The Machine decided that Root would have a million identities, but everyone else only got one. So I assume her server is just programmed differently (which also explains why Shaw can't just get a new identity, because they'd need the server to do the programming).

Which is obviously just a writers' fiat, but as it's consistent with what Root was doing for The Machine last season, one that at least is consistent with what we've seen so far.

Then this episode when Root was talkign to the kid, he said it was very confusing for him because he knew she was in front of him but could not see her. Not that it goes to a known irrelevant but that it does not EXIST.

But haven't we seen Finch, at least, be "recognized" as Finch before Root's patch caused him to be recognized as Harold Whistler? Or did I misinterpret that scene earlier in the season? (It's entirely possible I did.)

But it did catch my attention that in this episode, at the school, we saw Samaritan scroll through several of Root's covers trying to figure out who she was, but it couldn't ID her as Samantha Groves even when it KNEW that that was Root and the face should match Root's. Whatever The Machine and Root's nerd gang did, it seems to have made it virtually impossible for the team's faces to be matched to their real names. So I think the issue is that Samaritan now just has put an additional flag on Sameen Gray, like "my programming will say she's irrelevant but she's actually not."

Edited December 18, 2014 by stealinghome

[DeLurker]

I must have missed how the Machine Kid is plugged into The Machine. [uSB? 802.11?]

When Root was walking into the room there was a close up of the kid's ear and there was an earwig (think that is the right term) in his ear. I assume it was not a cochlear implant which I did not think were visible like this thing was.

Kid was awesome casting - conventionally cute, but scary in his dialogue and vocals. Not scary as wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley, but so clinical. Then he's coloring the whole time which is age appropriate but in all kinds of conflict with everything else. I want to see a better shot at what he drew.

[DEM]

 

Not that it goes to a known irrelevant but that it does not EXIST. If someone doesn't have a number, then Samaritan has nothing to build on to create an identity.

Wait, are you talking about Finch, Reese, and Shaw?  Because Finch, Reese, and Shaw very definitely and very clearly had cover identities that Samaritan could access.  In fact, we see those identities each week in the title sequence.  Panopticon was chock full of Samaritan seeing and listening to the team members.  In Nautilus, Reese had to arrest Finch because Finch acted out-of-character, and we saw Samaritan add that data to "Harold Whistler's" file.  They couldn't hold jobs if they didn't have identities.

 

I am very confused.

Edited December 18, 2014 by DEM

[Dagny]

Before: Samaritan sees Shaw's face, goes "Oh, that's Sameen Whateverherfakenameis. And in my database, that identity is not a threat. Moving on."

Now: Samaritan sees Shaw's face, goes "Oh, that's Sameen Whateverherfakenameis, and in my database, that identity is a threat. KILL KILL KILL."

 

IIRC, Shaw's designation was changed to "Deviant" and just to kill her or something.

 

Greer's backstory was a little interesting, but I just watched 6 episodes of The Game on BBC regarding MI5 in the early 70s and that was more fun.

[CoderLady]

Kid was awesome casting - conventionally cute, but scary in his dialogue and vocals. Not scary as wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley, but so clinical. Then he's coloring the whole time which is age appropriate but in all kinds of conflict with everything else. I want to see a better shot at what he drew.

 

At the end of the meeting the boy got up and walked past Root to stick his drawing up on the board. It was a shaded pencil portrait of a nuclear family. There was a mother and father, but I don't remember whether there were two kids or one.

[ABay]

There were two, I think. What struck me about it was that it looked like it was made on a dot matrix printer, like in ye olde dayes of computers.

 

Speaking of taking it old school, I was thinking of how other shows would deal with Samaritan. If this was Star Trek, Spock would order it to calculate pi. If it was any Stargate, there would be a global EMP.

[shura]

(which also explains why Shaw can't just get a new identity, because they'd need the server to do the programming)

 

How's this for a temporary, low-tech solution: borrow Root's bear costume, put it on and let Samaritan go crazy with that facial recognition thing?

 

Not that it goes to a known irrelevant but that it does not EXIST. If someone doesn't have a number, then Samaritan has nothing to build on to create an identity.

 

Wait, are you talking about Finch, Reese, and Shaw?  Because Finch, Reese, and Shaw very definitely and very clearly had cover identities that Samaritan could access.

 

And I'm pretty sure Root had a cover identity - moreover, an identity of an existing person - when Samaritan checked her out and noted the "gait mismatch". 

[stealinghome]

I'm not the original poster, but I thought what they were suggesting was that what doesn't exist are the Harold Finch, Sameen Shaw, Samantha Groves, and John Reese identities?

[Netfoot]

Then he's coloring the whole time which is age appropriate but in all kinds of conflict with everything else. I want to see a better shot at what he drew.

 

It appears to be a family portrait, far more sophisticated in execution than the other stick-figure drawings on the wall.    Interestingly, it appears to be raster-based and rendered in monochrome.  I can't say the people depicted look familiar.  Root should take it with her.  I'd like to know what Finch would make of it!

 

 

Wait, are you talking about Finch, Reese, and Shaw?  Because Finch, Reese, and Shaw very definitely and very clearly had cover identities that Samaritan could access.  In fact, we see those identities each week in the title sequence.

 

Correct.  But the title shows Finch (for example) initially as Primary Threat (in red) but this is quickly replaced with Irrelevant.  Same for John, Shaw and Root.  (Poor Fusco is always iIrrelevant.)  This is because as soon as one of the team is spotted, the compromised hardware quickly switches the identification to that of an irrelevant cover ID.  I think the problem with Shaw is that her new cover identity, previously classified by Samaritan as irrelevant, has now been re-classified as a threat, since her run-in with Martine at the cosmetics counter.  Now, when she is spotted, the compromised hardware switches the identification from her genuine ID -- which is considered a threat by Samaritan -- to her false cover ID, which is now also considered a threat.

[webruce]

The picture could be Martine, Lambert, Greer, and Gabriel(The Kid). Samaritan's family.

[bros402]

When Root was walking into the room there was a close up of the kid's ear and there was an earwig (think that is the right term) in his ear. I assume it was not a cochlear implant which I did not think were visible like this thing was.

 

Cochlear Implants are visible (They have a little receiver piece thing that is usually clipped into the person's hair - and they also have something around the back of the ear), but that wasn't one. Looked like an earpiece.

[Camera One]

All that, and the "cliffhanger" is Shaw escapes and risks compromising herself and the team?  I sure hope she has a plan and she isn't going to make things worse.  

 

The episode was alright.  The Machine vs. Machine stuff is hard to get into.  The boy they picked was good.  Was Root talking as the Machine?  Or was she paraphrasing what the Machine is saying to her?  It all seemed rather heavy-handed.

 

Greer's backstory was meh.  Hope he dies soon, since he isn't enjoyable to watch in the least.

I did like that cute bear costume Root was wearing, though.  And the sandwich-making sequence was fun.

[kwnyc]

Oh gosh! I was out on Tuesday, so refrained from visiting here until I saw the show last night...HOLY F*CK! January?

 

That said...I'm loving the discussion here.

 

 

There's still that little matter of that virus that Harold hopefully passed on to Samaritan.

Yes, there remain a few ways into Samaritan that it might not know.

 

Now did he pass along the virus at the tablet factory or in the computer of the woman scientist he met at the conference?

 

Plus, I'm wondering if Samaritan's father didn't program something like a morality into him as Harold did...he was shown to be a good guy. Or, if Samaritan wonders what his father was like and will attempt to reach out to Harold. (And of course, Harold IS in direct communication with the Machine now).

 

There was also something in Lambert's face when Greer was talking about having an AI/God run everything that showed...something...doubt, worry? Rather like how Scarface put the doubt about Dominic into HIS lieutenant before he got blowed up real good.

 

The previews, showing EVERYONE getting injured/shot scared the crap out of me.

 

This one's going to be good (and sad).

 

 

[Babalu]

Greer thinks he is in control of Samaritan.  Fat chance.  Once it develops a few iterations down the road, he's just as vulnerable as anyone else.  Stop smirking.

 

I'm wondering if Samaritan's father didn't program something like a morality into him as Harold did...he was shown to be a good guy.

I often feel like I need a "POI for Dummies" when I watch this show and read everyone's fascinating thoughts, so take these comments/speculation from a rather simple-minded viewer for what they're worth.

I think Greer is well aware that Samaritan won't be under his control much longer and welcomes that development. Whether or not Arthur Claypool programmed morality into Samaritan (*), Greer doesn't believe there's a moral component and that's exactly why he wants Samaritan to succeed. His experiences make him want to take humanity/morality out of the equation, to be taken over by an objective "for the greater good" "God."

(*) and I don't think he did - perhaps he was intending to but hadn't got there yet; if I remember correctly, Samaritan wasn't fully programmed, and look how long it took Harold to program it into The Machine before he allowed it to become operational.

This may be projection more than speculation because I loved Julian Ovenden so much in this episode, but I saw possible parallels in the relationship between young Greer/MI boss and Lambert/old Greer, so I'm hoping that Lambert turns eventually and allies with our team.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I knew at one point of time, they would give us a Pruneface backstory,

 

BWAH! This made me laugh so hard.  And I don't give two, three or any figgety fucks about Greer or his backstory. DON'T.CARE.

 

My two favorite scenes were Finch telling the food truck person how to make the Pastrami sandwich, and the "whack-a-mole" of Lambert, Root, Martine and Reese in the church. Though I wish Reese had taken them all out. It would solve so many, many problems.

[Dowel Jones]

I think Greer is well aware that Samaritan won't be under his control much longer and welcomes that development.

 

What I'm thinking of is that Samaritan will shortly decide that Greer is a threat to society as Samiritan sees it, and needs to be eliminated.  Right now I get the feeling that he thinks he will be on top of the world, kingmaker behind the curtain, so to speak.  Good luck with that.

[Camera One]

That would be the best comeuppance for such an irritating character.  I don't even find him fun to watch.

[shura]

I think Greer is well aware that Samaritan won't be under his control much longer and welcomes that development.

 

Does Greer even consider Samaritan to be under his control? I thought Greer told Finch that his purpose in bringing Samaritan to life was pretty much to put Samaritan in charge of running the world. I assume "the world" would include Greer. And then, when Samaritan booted up, didn't Greer welcome it with something like "We are awaiting your command"? "I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords" indeed.

 

What I'm thinking of is that Samaritan will shortly decide that Greer is a threat to society as Samiritan sees it, and needs to be eliminated.

 

Does Samaritan control its agents directly or does Greer handle that? If Greer were put in charge of organizing his own elimination, I think he is smart enough to reevaluate his views on Samaritan. Root, on the other hand... If the Machine told her to put a gun in her mouth and pull the trigger, she'd probably do it.

[bros402]

Does Greer even consider Samaritan to be under his control? I thought Greer told Finch that his purpose in bringing Samaritan to life was pretty much to put Samaritan in charge of running the world. I assume "the world" would include Greer. And then, when Samaritan booted up, didn't Greer welcome it with something like "We are awaiting your command"? "I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords" indeed.

 

 

Does Samaritan control its agents directly or does Greer handle that? If Greer were put in charge of organizing his own elimination, I think he is smart enough to reevaluate his views on Samaritan. Root, on the other hand... If the Machine told her to put a gun in her mouth and pull the trigger, she'd probably do it.

 

Samaritan does communicate with its agents - it directly talked to Martine's cell phone when she was hunting down Shaw.

 

It also talked to the girl it recruited in the game.

[stealinghome]

Yeah, it's interesting that that seems to be one of the big differences between The Machine and Samaritan. The Machine fundamentally only talks to Root and Finch when he okays it--TM just doesn't seem INTERESTED in talking to anyone else, including John and Shaw (granted they're not hugely interested in talking to TM either). Whereas Samaritan is a Chatty Cathy in comparison--it talks to (and through) any and everyone it wants to. No one is special to it.

[johntfs]

One thing I found interesting was how Samaritan acting in the beginning of the episode.  Giving police inside information to arrest criminals and prevent tragedies made sense as a way of showing how the world would be so much better off with Samaritan in control.  The way it dealt with the Irrelevant numbers was something different.  That seemed more its way of declaring to The Machine that

 

Edited December 29, 2014 by johntfs

[ABay]

Oh, thanks a bunch. Now I'm going to have Annie, Get Your Gun stuck in my head all night.

 

Can you bake a pie?

No.

Neither can I.

 

I once saw an amusing fan vid to this song featuring Picard and Ryker.

Edited December 29, 2014 by ABay

[Agent Dark]

Oh, thanks a bunch. Now I'm going to have Annie, Get Your Gun stuck in my head all night.

 

Can you bake a pie?

No.

Neither can I.

 

I once saw an amusing fan vid to this song featuring Picard and Ryker.

I want to see Samaritan and The Machine settle their differences with a Bake-Off now...  Reese, Harold and Shaw come back to the lair to find Root dressed up as chef slaving away to make a whole heap of cakes. 

 

Shaw - "I am strangely turned on right now"

[shura]

Samaritan Kid: "I humbly place before you my east meets west patented Traeger turkey burger-- An Asian fusion burger made with Willow Farms organic turkey, a toasted tallegio-cheese crisp, papaya chutney, black truffle aioli, and micro-greens on a gluten-free brioche bun. Enjoy."

 

Root: "Here's mine. It's a hamburger made out of meat on a bun with nothing."

 

Shaw: "I am DOUBLY turned on right now."

[stealinghome]

As a reward to myself after a really long week, I decided to re-watch the trilogy back-to-back(-to back, but it's too late to start Control-Alt-Delete, that will be tomorrow). Upon rewatch, I think The Cold War remains really, really effective and tense as the opening installment in the trilogy--and again, props to the director, because not a lot happened in the episode but he made it enthralling--but it's also a fascinating contrast/complement to If-Then-Else, because they're so opposite in some respects. The Cold War feels BIG in so many ways--crime tearing through NYC, the Witness Protection Program blown nationwide, the ominous stock market collapse at the end, Greer's flashbacks heralding the death of nation-states--whereas If-Then-Else, while nominally about saving the stock market, is really about the five team members and what it means to be human and to care. The narrowing of the scope really contributes to how well these episodes work as a pair. Because at the end of the day, what we care about is the human component.

 

Whoever said the music was really good this episode was right on. I particularly loved the score in the scene where Finch talked Shaw down from going after Root (so, so lovely) and when Young Greer confronted and killed his boss (so foreboding). Really the entire trilogy had A+++ music selections, both the score and the songs.

 

Speaking of Shaw charging off to save her lady, Shaw's FACE when Finch says "Root is not alone" just slays me. It's like Shaw has been repressing all her worry and care for Root under her anger, but Finch's words just puncture her anger bubble and Shaw can't help but let some of the softer emotions bubble over (turn up the volume?). Really good work from Sarah Shahi right there. It was like a switch flipped and you could see how lost and helpless and worried Shaw felt. I also love all the different levels on which Harold's comment can be taken. Like, it certainly can mean that Root isn't alone because The Machine is in her ear all the time. But Harold's comment can also be read as more about Root having a team and people who care, now, and even if she dies, it won't be the kind of thing where no one notices our mourns her. Root has comrades, team members, people who care, and Shaw doesn't need to go haring off after her (or biking to New Jersey!) for Root to know that. imo that's really the meaning that got through to Shaw, and just--awww, that Shaw hates the idea of Root dying alone, with not a friendly face or voice around, just kills me. I love that that's important to Shaw. That if Root was gonna die, she needed to know that someone cared. That she wasn't alone.

 

Ca we give the dog playing Bear an honorary Emmy? He looked so sad when Shaw left.

 

If there's something that I don't like about this episode, it's that the resolution of Shaw's storyline in this episode from 4x09 just increases my dissatisfaction with 4x09. I still find Shaw OOC in her determination to rush after Reese and Elias--she'd been far too pragmatic about not blowing their covers before that episode--but I could *kind of* understand why they had her be that way in 4x09 if they were trying to put a wedge between Shaw and the rest of the team. But the way everyone was over it in literally 2 minutes in this episode suggests that amping up the tension between Shaw and the team wasn't the point. So then...what WAS the point of writing Shaw as they did in 4x09, and have Root have to drug her, if they were going to drop the whole thing? Was it to, like, give themselves insurance in case Shahi changed her mind about (temporarily!) leaving and provide a plausible "Shaw is confined to the batcave and her storyline for 4B is tension between her and Root/Finch/Reese" thing? Was it really just lazy writing to try to make the episode more dramatic? Because I would much rather have had Shaw's shootout with Martine be more arduous and destructive, and had Root and Shaw much more harassed by Samaritan's forces while trying to get back to the lair, than what we got, which just made Shaw look like an immature tool.

 

I don't remember Julian Ovenden making much of an impression on me last season--he's also much, MUCH hotter clean-shaven, which may be part of it--but he was on FIRE this episode. Just oozing charisma and style. If he's going to give more performances like that, can we keep him around more permanently? I've never found Jim Caviezel incredibly charismatic, so I would give a big YES PLEASE for more Ovenden, to bring the looks AND the charm. Although some of that may have been Amy Acker...is there anyone she DOESN'T have chemistry with? Because holy smokes, she and Ovenden had chemistry to burn.

 

Upon rewatch, I find Greer's backstory even more disappointing than the first time around. It felt very rote and didn't reveal anything new about the character. Emrhys Cooper was really good as young Greer (also very attractive in that three-piece suit!) and this time around it struck me that they cast someone who vaguely resembles John Nolan to be the boss, which is interesting, but on the whole the flashback sequence remains quite disappointing. The flashbacks on this show are usually much more interesting, and give us radically new windows into the characters, but this one just felt like filler.

 

The beginning, from Finch nervously instructing the lady making the sandwich (and oh man, her GLARE is golden) to the bear suit to Shaw slipping out of her handcuffs, never.gets.old. Finch's face when he walks into the subway station is hilarious--for a moment, he TOTALLY thought he found out way more than he ever wanted to know about Root/Shaw's sex life. I also love the end shot of that scene: Finch's alarmed face at the proximity of Shaw's food to his computers, her total lack of concern about it, and in the background, Root playing with Shaw's cuffs, trying to figure out how Shaw got out. Such a nice character beat for all three. I think I said this before, but I wish the show mixed and matched its pairs and groups more often--the cast pretty much has great chemistry together in every permutation, so I wish we saw different combinations more. Maybe we will in the back half.

 

Finch's self-righteousness about not killing the congressman continues to bug me. This time, what annoyed me more was when he said to Shaw in the subway "I never imagined we'd get this far, not once Samaritan went online. And yet, here we are." And I was like, so basically Finch just said that he thought they'd all die when Samaritan came online? So he indirectly told Shaw, to her face, that he prioritized not killing the congressman (therefore also signing the world up for all the deaths Samaritan caused) over the lives of his whole team? I feel like this is kind of a Max Lord situation...the more the show tries to double down on Harold making the right call with the congressman, the more I call BS. Harold has to make a different choice the next time this situation comes up. Also Harold needs to start giving The Machine more credit.

[prican58]

stealinghome, you have got me wanting to watch the trilogy back to back, myself.

 

Thanks