Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Jack Kerouac]

I think Zoom will not turn out to be Barry, but Barry's dad. It's the body shape and the eyes.

[wingster55]

I'd like that twist..more so if it's John Wesley Shipp playing Earth 2 Barry.

[zannej]

I just re-watched the scene where Jay recounted how he came to be in the same 'verse as "our" Flash. He said that Zoom was about to kill him and that after being pulled through the singularity, he lost his powers. It's not clear if Zoom stole those powers or if he lost them by going through the singularity. But I do wonder how Zoom knows what is on the other side and how he knew Jay survived. Is he sending people to kill Jay because he knows he survived? Has he crossed through the black hole himself? If not, is it because he might lose his powers? Would Jay's powers be restored if he went back to his own world?

 

Barry's dad as Zoom is an interesting idea. I hope we will get some more hints soon. I hope that the writers actually know already.

[Trini]

First image for this year's crossover:

 

No, I would not prefer yellow spandex, but looking at all of them together, I wish the colors of the costumes weren't so muted.

---

Wait, what is the Flash wearing on his hands??

[nksarmi]

Ok does anyone know how long Barry is paralyzed?  Because yea - wasn't expecting that one even after it looked like Zoom broke his spine.

[phoenics]

Are those hand things supposed to help Barry not be paralyzed?

[zannej]

Barry will probably heal after awhile and get the use of his legs back. Maybe he'll even have to use Eobard's wheelchair. I did like how E2 Wells pointed out that Eobard was NOT Wells.

 

Looks like my theory about Zoom not being able to cross to E1 was wrong. I wonder if he was just watching and studying Barry to learn his strategy and determine how to defeat him.

[phoenics]

Barry should take a page out of his book - why doesn't he ever stop to think, strategize and plan? Oliver was right.

[Trini]

Photos for "Gorilla Warfare" are out, and yay! Henry's back!

[bettername2come]

Photos for "Gorilla Warfare" are out, and yay! Henry's back!

And my first thought is "What if he's really Earth 2 Henry aka Zoom?!!"

 

Hey, doesn't Barry have an evil twin in some of the comics? Maybe that's who Zoom is.

[Trini]

And my first thought is "What if he's really Earth 2 Henry aka Zoom?!!"

 

Gaaaah! That would be messed up.

 

I kinda want Zoom to be Eddie Thawne, just so Rick Cosnett can get away from Quantico, which is turning out to be almost as ridiculous as a show with a telepathic gorilla.

[phoenics]

But why - why would an Earth 2 Henry WANT to kill any version of his son? Maybe he doesn't know who he is? Or didn't - because he unmasked him in the lab...

I just really hope they don't go there... but if Earth 1 Henry has any inkling about Earth 2 Zoom, then we might get clues in the next episode.

[Ruby25]

I don't see how they can resist making him E2 Barry. There's too much potential in developing an interesting origin story for how Barry turned evil (involving characters he knows, like perhaps E2 Iris's death even- that'd be the perfect way to resurrect WestAllen in the second half without having to build it up, since they surprisingly seem to have totally iced it on the show right now, but I can't believe that'll stick...unless the writers really hate Candice Patton for some reason).

 

And frankly I can't think of anything they could do with another character that would have as much impact to it. Even E2 Henry- it might be interesting just for the reveal that he's Henry, but then what? Making Barry fight himself would be a nod to a similar comics storyline, and it would be too juicy to resist, imo.

[zannej]

Thanks for the link!

Am I the only one who noticed the picture of Cisco standing next to Reverse Flash and it was labeled as Cisco and Harrison Wells?

 

I wonder if that is a flashback, or if they have "Harry" in a reverse flash costume for some reason. Now I'm intrigued.

 

I hope they don't have Zoom as alternate world Barry Allen.

[phoenics]

Pretty sure it's Cisco and Earth 2 Harry in the RF suit. Though how did they get the RF suit when it disintegrated... unless Eobard had a spare.

[Maverick]

Cisco is the Bob Mackey for not one but two superhero teams so I'm sure whipping up a RF suit would be no problem for him.

[zannej]

Ok, I read some articles and saw the New Zealand promo. Wells puts on the Reverse Flash suit (which, as Maverick suggested, was probably made by Cisco) so he can try to fool Grodd. I'm thinking that since Grodd can read minds that its not going to go very well.

[Sakura12]

The only issue I have with Zoom being Barry is that he has a completely different body type than Barry. His chest width alone is two Barry's. Unless I'm suppose to just with when Zoom removes his mask he shrinks to Barry's size. I know it's television and many shows do that to hide the identity but they should've at least not gone with a body builder to play Zoom. Tom Cavanagh is closer to Barry's size, so they can find other actors that would fit better.

[phoenics]

The only issue I have with Zoom being Barry is that he has a completely different body type than Barry. His chest width alone is two Barry's. Unless I'm suppose to just with when Zoom removes his mask he shrinks to Barry's size. I know it's television and many shows do that to hide the identity but they should've at least not gone with a body builder to play Zoom. Tom Cavanagh is closer to Barry's size, so they can find other actors that would fit better.

Maybe it's an older, more griseled Barry who has gotten bulkier? It could happen. Especially given how Zoom used to be human angle... maybe something happened to make him all bulked up like that?

Like the Green Goblin or something.

[Ruby25]

I don't think him being bigger would be hard to explain- whatever happened that turned him into this "monster" thing changed his body. Could be that simple.

[zannej]

Well, the "lightning" did give Barry abs-- so maybe the particle accelerator in E2 significantly changed things about the body structure of the human that used to be Zoom.

 

Funny thing about the size-- there was an episode of Stargate SG1 where an alien kidnapped Dr. Jackson. While in a suit, the alien appeared to be like 6'5" and they had a man in the suit stalking around and terrorizing the character. But when the mask was removed, it was Claudia Black (as Vala) and she was significantly smaller in stature-- only 5'9". I guess the people who made the episode assumed the fans wouldn't notice the size difference once the mask was removed.

 

I don't like the idea of Zoom being Barry-- but maybe they will get a different actor. My main guesses right now are Henry or Eddie.

 

Also, I wonder if Wells was concerned that Zoom was going to go back and murder his daughter once he found out that Wells was working with Barry to try to capture him. Of course, maybe the reason he kidnapped Jesse in the first place was because he knew Wells was trying to find a way to catch him? Wells did say he tried and failed in the past. I still wonder what his endgame is or what his purpose to holding Jesse is. I also wonder why he let Wells live. He did say "You're next" after kicking Barry's ass.

 

If I were on Team Flash, I would set up the anti-speedster forcefield around all of Star Labs, set up the detectors Wells has to detect Zoom (setting exceptions for known friendly metahumans like Cisco and Barry), and have some sort of way for Barry to get in and out-- maybe wearing a device that will open a small portion of the forcefield, stock up on emergency supplies, find out if Palmer Industries had more of those anti-speed nanobots, up the dosage on the serum, ask Capt Cold to keep an eye out for Zoom (or maybe risk making another cold gun), and get Barry some more combat training from Arrow or someone.

[Trini]

Anyone think we'll see Killer Frost in 'Gorilla Warfare'? I don't think they'd release that photo if she wasn't going to be showing up soon (even if it's a cameo -- for now).

[zannej]

Good question, Trini. I have no idea. Maybe if not in this episode, perhaps in a later one? Killer Frost might be an Earth2 thing though. Or maybe Cisco will have a "vibe" of Killer Frost.

[Ruby25]

Supposedly they're taking some kind of trip to Earth-2 in the second half. Maybe that's where she shows up. I have to admit I'm not all that interested in Killer Frost anymore. I sort of was at first, because I assumed that meant Caitlin would eventually turn into a villain...but after this watching this show for a while, I think there's ZERO chance that any main character will turn evil, and so that's why KF will be her E2 doppelganger.

 

Which is too bad, because as I've stated before, I really don't care about Caitlin at all and think Panabaker is a terrible actress, so making her evil would have only made her more interesting to me. But, oh well.

[Maverick]

Unless Killer Frost's power comes from something other than being a metahuman or there's another metahumna-creating event, KF likely has to be from Earth-2 since Wells waved his metahuman watch in front of Caitlin without so much as a beep.

[Sakura12]

KF doesn't have to be a meta. Comic Killer Frost got her powers from a lab accident. They could still do that for Caitlin. However I don't think this show will make one of their mains evil. It seems they don't like to go to deep with things. They don't even talk about the fact they straight up murdered two Earth 2 metas.

[Trini]

Yeah, I'm fairly certain that the Killer Frost on this show will be strictly Earth-2. They want to keep Team Flash intact, for as long as possible, I think.

[driedfruit]

But why - why would an Earth 2 Henry WANT to kill any version of his son? Maybe he doesn't know who he is? Or didn't - because he unmasked him in the lab...

 

If it's Henry I expect Barry doesn't exist on Earth 2 (the same way Jay doesn't seem to exist in Earth 1). Perhaps Nora died before they had children, or he never met/married her. 

 

I don't think there's a chance Zoom is anyone but Barry or Henry, because those are the only options that bring Barry manpain. If not for Wally, I'd put Malcolm Thawne (played by Grant) into the running, but that may be too many long lost brothers in one season. 

 

I do think they'll do a fake-out with Eddie around sweeps, or later. Could be when Barry visits Earth 2, so they can avoid Iris being involved...

Edited November 21, 2015 by driedfruit

[bettername2come]

Ooh, maybe Reverse Flash pulled a Terminator and killed Nora before she got pregnant with Barry, and Henry started trying to stop all the speedsters and then he went mad.

[driedfruit]

The outcome might be too similar to season one, and confusing by the show's rules since Eobard would also be stuck in the past on Earth 2 and wanting to get back... I'd rather Barry not existing is just a random, coin flip kind of difference. It could be like how on Nine's DW, on parallel Earth, Rose's parents had a puppy instead of a daughter. 

Edited November 21, 2015 by driedfruit

[Trini]

The description for episode for episode 9:

"Running to Stand Still"

 

MARK HAMILL, WENTWORTH MILLER AND LIAM MCINTYRE RETURN; KEIYNAN LONSDALE JOINS THE CAST AS WALLY WEST

- When Mark Mardon AKA The Weather Wizard (guest star Liam McIntyre) returns to break Leonard Snart AKA Captain Cold (guest star Wentworth Miller) and James Jesse AKA The Trickster (guest star Mark Hamill) out of Iron Heights, Barry (Grant Gustin) must stop these rogues from taking over Central City during Christmas. Meanwhile, Joe (Jesse L. Martin) and Iris (Candice Patton) meet Wally West (Keiynan Lonsdale).

Kevin Tancharoen directed the episode written by Andrew Kreisberg

 

1) I'm really disappointed that the only reason for Iris' mother showing up was to introduce Wally.*

2) I'm surprised we're going to see Wally so soon; I thought they'd wait until next year.

 

*I'm going to have to write a post for Lightning Rods about how the female characters have been disappointing (with a few exceptions) this season when I get around to it.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Trini

[SevenStars]

The description for episode for episode 9:

1) I'm really disappointed that the only reason for Iris' mother showing up was to introduce Wally.*

I agree. I wish Wally had just shown up without Iris' mother and we were left wondering what happened to her. I think that would have been better than the cap they gave us with her appearance.

[phoenics]

*I'm going to have to write a post for Lightning Rods about how the female characters have been disappointing (with a few exceptions) this season when I get around to it.

Make sure to mention the WTF-ness of them making Wally a crack baby. They could have written this so much better. I would have just preferred Wally showing up unnannounced after she died - for some reason OTHER than drugs.

[jaytee1812]

I think the writers love Jesse L. Martin, I mean I'm sure I they said they approached him he didn't audition. So he gets some great writing, while everyone related to him get stereotypical crap.

[phoenics]

I think the writers love Jesse L. Martin, I mean I'm sure I they said they approached him he didn't audition. So he gets some great writing, while everyone related to him get stereotypical crap.

Well, the writing did make him look bad last year - very sexist and controlling... but they appear to have really fixed that this season so there's that... but meanwhile, Iris gets marginalized and looks like an orphan without a best friend.

[zannej]

I was google image searching and came across a behind-the-scenes pic of Zoom (without his eyes blacked out). He has brown or hazel eyes, so that rules out Eddie. Plus, I *think* it looks like John Wesley Shipp. I made a pic of them side by side. I wish I could find a better pic of John with his head at the same angle. The chin is sticking out too far because of his facial expression and head tilt. I think the mask exaggerates the cheeckbones to further disguise his facial features.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/c3ee6ab4a5d513e028d784b9f288e05a/tumblr_nyia1b7nX11s65llgo1_1280.png

 

What do you think?

Edited November 28, 2015 by zannej

[phoenics]

The nose doesn't work, imo. Even if you assume the bumped the mask out a bit to disguise his nose, it still isn't bumped out enough to work, imo. There isn't enough buildup on the mask to mute the nose that way.

But that doesn't mean it's not him - they could just have a really good stunt double for him.

It does resemble him though.

[zannej]

The nose doesn't work, imo. Even if you assume the bumped the mask out a bit to disguise his nose, it still isn't bumped out enough to work, imo. There isn't enough buildup on the mask to mute the nose that way.

But that doesn't mean it's not him - they could just have a really good stunt double for him.

It does resemble him though.

I think the mask sort of squishes his nose. He looks like his nose is soft enough to be squished down at the button. Just imagine the button squished down toward his mouth and they could get that contour. I think the angle of his head, tilted up, makes it look like his nose sticks out more as well.

 

Of course, it could be the stunt double or someone we just haven't seen on the show yet.

[Trini]

At this point, I'm not even sure if the writers definitely know who Zoom is; so I think it's a stunt double. (But even if they do know, I still think it's just a stunt double, at the moment.) Unlike last year, I think that they may drag this out for most of the season.

[zannej]

I realized while re-watching the Gorilla Warfare episode that I was wrong about Barry's eye color. The photos I found on the internet made his eyes look blue-ish and lighter. But as I was watching, I saw he had similarly colored eyes to Henry. Then I realized that his eyelashes were throwing me off and that if he had black greasepaint around his eyes it might hide those lashes and those could actually be Grant's eyes. The facial shape is about the same with some parts exaggerated by buildup on the mask.

 

It could still be a stunt double of course, but we shall have to see. But for now, I'm thinking either E2 Barry or Henry.

[phoenics]

I'm sure the show is going to make it someone personal to Barry, so it's either Barry, E-2 Henry, Joe, or possibly Wally (playing a kind of Malcolm Thawne-ish character, angry that Barry stole his life or something).

I'm sure the show will come up with another Deux Ex Machina to explain the twist kinda like how Eobard took over Harrison's body. If it's Barry, there will be an explanation for why he looks twice as big as Barry.

[AyChihuahua]

Wrong thread.

Edited December 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Trini]

So Weather Wizard is coming back next episode, and we know Patty has a reason to hate Mardons; I wonder if they'll let her be a part of taking down WW?

[Ruby25]

Probably. I'm guessing that episode will wrap up her "personal arc" that hasn't been mentioned since she first appeared. Does Barry even know about that? They really have had like no meaningful conversations.

 

That also makes it sound like they might let her in on the secret too, I guess. Actually...I always wondered how he was going to be able to hide it from her once they slept together, which is apparently happening in this one. Maybe that's why she has to find out, since, superpowers and all (it looked like Linda would have found out last season if that'd gone further).

 

But knowing this show, they could just sweep that under the rug and pretend like it was never an issue, just like they've done with a lot of other stuff from Season 1.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Ruby25

[zannej]

This sort of has to do with relationships, but its a potential spoiler. I was reading up on some of the DC wikis trying to see the family trees for the Flash and characters in the Flash.

Anyway, it mentioned what is happening in the New 52 and said that while Iris was always Barry's love in past lives/versions, he's now with Patty Spivot and Iris is just a good friend. Ugh.. I hope that is only a temporary thing. So far what I've read about the New 52 it seems to suck. I'm glad I stopped reading comic books about a decade ago.

 

It's not that I hate Patty. I think the actress is good, but I don't like the writing for her, and it seems like they want to give her a lot more screentime than they ever gave to Iris.

[phoenics]

Yeah - but in the new 52 it looks like they are slow burning Westallen. The problem with The Flash is that they started off with such a focus on westallen and Iris and now this season they've backed off. CP (in an interview with Glamour) seems to suggest that they want The Flash to run for many years, hence it might be "a while" until we get westallen.

Hmmmm so they don't want Arrow to run for many years? Cause they made Olicity start popping in S2 with extended gazes, etc..

This experience with The Flash has made me want to stop watching and drop the CW forever from my tv roster. Part of me wishes I had waited until the end of S2 to start watching so I could make sure they were serious about CP/Iris and WA.

[Trini]

Photos from 2.09, "Running to Stand Still": lots of stuff going down at the West residence.... This one is going to be the big relationship episode, like last year, I guess.

[Trini]

Tar Pit cast:

Heroes Reborn actor Marco Grazzini will be appearing on an upcoming episode of The Flash as Joey Montelone (aka Tar Pit), ComicBook.com has learned exclusively.

...

In the TV series, The CW revealed to us that Tar Pit is a vengeful meta-human with the ability to transform into molten asphalt. When he crosses paths with The Flash, Tar Pit uses his powers to gain a tactical advantage over the Scarlet Speedster, who finds the ground literally shifting beneath his feet.

[Velocity23]

Iris maybe getting a new Love interest

 

 

Question: What is the plan for Iris on The Flash? Any details on her upcoming storyline? —Susan
Ausiello: The new year may usher in her first post-Eddie romance. The CW hit is looking for a handsome African-American actor in his 20s to play Scott, Iris’ new boss at CCPN. Their professional relationship gets off to a rocky start — his first order of business is to kill her puff piece about recent attacks in Central City. Maybe that’s his idea of foreplay?

http://tvline.com/2015/12/08/the-flash-season-2-spoilers-iris-romance/

[Trini]

Well, she's getting a new boss; I don't know if that leads to romance -- since boss/subordinate pairings tend to be iffy.